David Axelrod on Obama, Clinton and still believing in the political process after 40 years

JUDY WOODRUFF:

He's a former reporter for The Chicago Tribune who stopped covering politics to advise Democratic candidates. In 2008, David Axelrod was the chief strategist and media adviser for then Senator Barack Obama's successful presidential bid.

He spent two years as a White House senior adviser and re-upped for the 2012 reelection campaign, his final as a political operative. Now he's the director of the Institute of Politics at the University of Chicago and the author of the new book "Believer: My Forty Years in Politics."

David Axelrod, welcome.

DAVID AXELROD, Author, "Believer: My Forty Years in Politics": Good to be here, Judy. Thank you.

JUDY WOODRUFF:

So, the title says it all, "Believer." You believe — of course, you believe in Barack Obama, but you…

DAVID AXELROD:

But it's more than that.

JUDY WOODRUFF:

… believe in American politics.

DAVID AXELROD:

I really do.

JUDY WOODRUFF:

But my question is why, when so many Americans don't right now?

DAVID AXELROD:

Well, that's actually one of the reasons why I wanted to write the book.

In fact, I wanted the subtitle on the cover to be "How My Idealism Survived 40 Years in Politics." And that's really part of the story. I started — my interest in politics goes back to when I was 5 years old and John F. Kennedy came to my community in New York.

And, you know, I learned later what he said. But I was struck by the importance of the scene.

But what he said was, I'm not saying that, if you elect me, everything will be good. This is a hazardous occupation, being an American citizen in the 1960s, filled with hope and challenge. And we will decide which path we take.

And the message was, through politics and through this process, we can steer the course of history, and that seemed very big to me and it still seems very big to me and very true.

JUDY WOODRUFF:

But it's also a lot harder than you thought it was going to be, than anybody thought it was going to be, including this president.

Why is it so hard? What is it that — about the system that makes it so hard to get things done?

DAVID AXELROD:

Well, I think it's a confluence of things.

And let's certify that we have the sense that politics is much more difficult now. In some ways, it was. We have had times in our country when a sitting vice president killed a former treasury secretary over politics. We have had canings in the U.S. Senate and civil wars. So we shouldn't get too carried away.

But I think the media environment, for one thing, has made politics more difficult, this sort of immediacy of the Twitter, social media age, in which a news cycle or several can get hijacked by stories that ultimately mean nothing. And there's very little time for reflection. That makes it harder.

I think the money that you see in politics today and the proliferation of advertising and some of those techniques have made it more difficult, polarization, that — some because of redistricting, some because of demographics. There are a lot of reasons for it.

That said, that said, Judy, I still think we have the ability to do big things. And we have seen it, when you think about what's happened in the last six years.

JUDY WOODRUFF:

Let me ask you about something, because you are — you have idealism. You say the system, the idea of what politics can do that's good is really important.

DAVID AXELROD:

Yes. Yes.

JUDY WOODRUFF:

But you also are critical of most members of Congress. You say they're very focused on the next election. You say the president feels that same way, too.

How can you believe in the process and the idea of what it can accomplish, and not believe in the people who practice…

DAVID AXELROD:

Well, first of all, I think it's always been thus, that the majority — the world of politics divides into two categories, the more numerous category of people who run for office because they want to be something. And then there's a smaller and very admirable category of people who run for office because they want to do something. And I have been attracted to those people.

The one thing you said that I disagree with is, if any — I think the president is someone who's in that second category, and probably has ignored politics to a fault at times, because he believes that, when you get elected, you're elected to do things and not just be something. And I admired him for it.

JUDY WOODRUFF:

But you were asked — I saw an interview where you were asked about why he doesn't reach out to — more naturally to more members of Congress, and you said he's been disappointed in them.

DAVID AXELROD:

Yes. Well, I think he's — and I also said that I think he hasn't related to them in the right way at all times.

But, on the other hand, I look at this guy, and at the set of decisions that he made when I was in the White House, in those first two very difficult years, where I believe he saved the American economy, or very much helped to save the American economy, the auto industry, made a very difficult decision on health care.

Some politicians criticize him for it, because they say it was a bad political decision. He knew it was a bad political decision, but he thought it was the right decision for the country. That inspires me and a lot of people who have health care today who wouldn't otherwise have had it.

JUDY WOODRUFF:

You talk about a number of things that he'd like to do. Now he is focused on the middle class, you said something that he talked a lot about during the campaign, but he hasn't been able to focus in a singular way on it.

And you actually put some of the blame on the American people for not participating.

DAVID AXELROD:

Well, I do.

I think that there's a great deal of cynicism. You look at primary elections, where 10 and 15 and 20 percent of the people participate, and they're essentially taken over by the most extreme voices in the parties. And that's contributed to some of the problems we have.

Democracy is a participatory exercise. And if you walk away from it, you're doing so at your own risk.

JUDY WOODRUFF:

You — I have to ask you about Hillary Clinton…

DAVID AXELROD:

Yes.

JUDY WOODRUFF:

… of course, his main primary opponent in 2008.

You write, she was smart, she was able, good in many ways as a candidate. She didn't win. What's different about the challenge she faces, assuming she runs in 2016?

DAVID AXELROD:

I think she had the experience of running and learning from that. She's had experience since then outside of elective politics.

But the times are different as well. I believe that the outgoing incumbent sets the terms of the election. In 19 — in 2008, people were looking at George Bush and they thought he was a bit bombastic, kind of Manichaean in the way he saw the world, black and white.

They wanted someone who saw the nuances and who understood the gray, and they picked a guy named Barack Obama. And he did do that, and he was the right man for the times. I think the pendulum swung back a little now.

They don't want someone who is going to challenge the system, so much as someone who can manage the system, someone who knows the system.

JUDY WOODRUFF:

Because they think the president didn't do that…

DAVID AXELROD:

I think that there's a feeling that he didn't do that.

I think he's been incredibly accomplished. I think history will be good to him in that regard. But that is one place where you would say, yes, he hasn't been a great manager of events in Washington.

JUDY WOODRUFF:

The tricky thing about writing a book while…

DAVID AXELROD:

And, by the way, I think Hillary will appeal to people on that basis, because they see her as someone who may have the ability to manage the system a little better.

JUDY WOODRUFF:

You're not the only one who has written a book while the president's still in office. Doesn't that put you, though, in a place where you can't say everything you want to say?

I mean, you — for example, you wrote some things about how the president felt one way about same-sex marriage. At the same time, he couldn't — you said, couldn't or wasn't ready to say that publicly. He said in an interview yesterday that you, David Axelrod, were mixing up his personal feelings…

DAVID AXELROD:

Yes, but then, when you saw the quote, I really don't disagree with what he said. He said: I had my personal view and then I had my public position, and I was frustrated at times about that.

And that's exactly what I wrote. So I don't know have any disagreement with him on that. Look, you know, the thing is, Judy, this wasn't just his story. This is my story. This is my life story. And, so, I couldn't wait to write my own story.

I understand the disquiet on the part of some — about some of the books that have been written, but I just wanted to write a story about my own journey to try and make the case that it's worthwhile to engage in this process. And that's why I'm running the Institute of Politics at the University of Chicago. We need people to believe that we can shape our future and not walk away from this.

JUDY WOODRUFF:

David Axelrod, "Believer," your forty years in politics.

It's great to see you in Washington again.

DAVID AXELROD:

Great to see you. Thank you.

JUDY WOODRUFF:

Thank you for talking to us.

DAVID AXELROD:

Thanks for having me.