Envoy for hostage affairs describes efforts to free Americans detained abroad

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• Amna Nawaz:

  While the United States was able to negotiate the release of detained Americans in Venezuela, there are still at least four Americans in Russia, and approximately seven held in Gaza by Hamas and potentially other militant groups.

  The U.S. government's point person working to get them all home is Roger Carstens, the special presidential envoy for hostage affairs.

  Ambassador Carstens, welcome back.

  Roger Carstens, U.S. Special Presidential Envoy for Hostage Affairs: Amna, thanks for having me tonight.

• Amna Nawaz:

  So I want to begin in Gaza and I know what is a multiagency effort to bring home those Americans held in Gaza.

  I understand Qatar was instrumental in previous successful efforts to release many of the hostages. Things have been at a standstill for a while, though now. Where is the holdup? Obviously, Hamas, right? But are the U.S. and Israel on the same page on this?

• Roger Carstens:

  As you might imagine, I can't get into the details of negotiation. At times you can, usually after the fact, but, right now, it just, in a way, doesn't benefit the hostages to get into the nitty-gritty of it.

  What I can say is that Qatar is playing a very strong and important role as an intermediary. There are times when, of course, the United States does not really have entree into some of the negotiating groups, and this is a case where Qatar has really been able to bring its gravitas in the region to bear.

  I think where we are, it's a tough fight. I think a lot of things you read in the newspaper are probably accurately portraying where we are. But the bottom line is, as the president said and as the secretary said, we're in this to make sure that everyone gets back. And even if we were to get all of our Americans back, we are going to stay there and work to get all the hostages back, and we're done when everyone is accounted for.

• Amna Nawaz:

  Have you been able to confirm, at least among the Americans that are held, that they are still alive?

• Roger Carstens:

  So information still remains sketchy.

  As you well know, the president announced just a few days ago that we believe one of the American hostages in detention had already passed. For the other seven remaining, of course, the information — I would say we have more information some, less on others.

  But, at the end of the day, to us, we just have to keep pursuing returning everyone, to include those who do pass away. So the one gentleman that is assessed as being deceased, we still have a responsibility to bring his remains back, so that the families can have closure.

• Amna Nawaz:

  The nature of your work is, to say the least, high-stakes, but also just things come together at the last minute.

  I want to ask you about the recent deal. You were able to bring home 10 Americans who were detained in Venezuela in exchange for an ally of Venezuelan President Maduro.

  How fragile — give us a sense, how fragile are these deals before they're done? I mean, when was this one final before they came home on Wednesday?

• Roger Carstens:

  To just answer directly, they're always very fragile. There comes a time when — even though we try to give families a sense of what's happening during the discussions, there comes a time when we tell the families like, we just can't talk about it anymore, because it seems to get to that point where everything hangs on a thread and that, if there's one leak, if there's one false tweet, the other side may actually decide to collapse the negotiation.

  On this one, we had some details to work out. A lot of good work was done by the United States, particularly by the White House and the people at the State Department and Western Hemisphere Affairs. But I think we got to the point where we just had to fine-tune a few things.

  And, as a result, on the 20th, we spent about four or five hours on a very hot airplane tarmac. You can picture six airplanes with their engines continually running, no one shut down for six hours, and just going back and forth between this — these very loud planes with that heat coming off the tarmac, trying to ensure that everything was wrapped up, so that we could begin the switch between the Americans that they were holding and the person that we were holding.

  But at the end of the day, we were able to pull it all off, and I think a lot of people put the work into it. And, if I may, it's not just the people who negotiated at the White House or the State Department, but there are congressmen, senators, nonprofits, individuals like Mickey Bergman of the Richardson foundation, Jonathan Franks, Eric Lebson, congressmen, senators, their staffs, allies of the United States that all put themselves into this.

  But, at the end of the day, the people that, to my mind, bear the most weight on their back, the families. They're the ones that push us, hold us accountable, sometimes come up with a winning strategy, and they're all doing that to keep their loved ones — bring their loved ones back.

  And I would even say the people that are in these prisons, they remain strong and they pretty much never lose faith in their country. They know that we're going to come and get them one day.

• Amna Nawaz:

  Speaking of folks in prison, I want to ask you about the Americans who are still in Russia.

  Tomorrow does mark…

• Roger Carstens:

  Yes.

• Amna Nawaz:

  … five years since Paul Whelan's wrongful detention in Russia.

  You put out a statement just this evening, saying: "Not a day goes by without intensive U.S. government efforts to bring him home."

  But he recently did tell reporters he feels betrayed, that he feels that he's been left behind. There have been previous deals that did not include him.

  Will he be the priority in any potential next Russian swap?

• Roger Carstens:

  You know, a lot depends on the Russians.

  I mean, certainly, we want to bring both Paul and Evan back. Love to get them both at the same time.

• Amna Nawaz:

  Evan Gershkovich is The Wall Street Journal reporter.

• Roger Carstens:

  Evan Gershkovich, The Wall Street Journal reporter.

  But we're working hard. It's kind of — it's a tough thing to tell people that you're working hard, because the belief might be that you're not. But, at the end of the day, we probably talk to his family members daily. We talked to The Wall Street Journal because they maintain an interest in Evan Gershkovich. We talk to them on a weekly basis.

  But Paul Whelan is just front and center at all times. I probably talk to him once every two or three weeks. Fletcher Schoen, my case officer, talks to Paul pretty much weekly. But this is something that we work on every day. And that's not just throwing those words out there. Every day, we're working on trying to bring Paul home.

• Amna Nawaz:

  We have seen a rise in foreign governments detaining innocent Americans abroad. And the criticism you always get is, the more you negotiate with people, you get them to see they can have a financial backer or a close political ally or billions in funds unfrozen by releasing Americans they're holding, that it may incentivize more hostage-taking.

  How is that not the case? Doesn't that seem to be proving true right now?

• Roger Carstens:

  No, if I were to actually lay all the facts out, I might say that my case numbers are actually going down right now. I think we're in a new field.

  Probably, 10 years from now, when we have had a chance to run all the numbers, we can maybe come up with a more conclusive — or, I should say, conclusion. But, right now, my numbers are not necessarily going up. They're — if they're a steady state or going down, I would say that would be accurate.

  Gaza, of course, with 10 hostages being — or 12 hostages down to eight that are still on accounted for, that kind of skews the numbers a little bit. But, at the end of the day, people don't get back unless you're willing to make these deals.

  And President Biden and Secretary Blinken have shown great courage in making the hard decisions that bring Americans home, because unless you make that deal, that person is going to remain in a prison. There's no other way to bring some of these people back other than to make a hard decision.

• Amna Nawaz:

  That is Ambassador Roger Carstens, U.S. special presidential envoy for hostage affairs.

  Ambassador, good to see you. Thank you.

• Roger Carstens:

  Thank you, as always.