Hong Kong democracy activist describes how Chinese government targets critics in exile

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• Geoff Bennett:

  For over 20 years, it was understood that Hong Kong was part of China, but it ran its own affairs under what was known as one country, two systems.

  Hong Kong residents had many freedoms that mainland Chinese did not. That all started to change four years ago, as Beijing cracked down on pro-democracy activists. Now the once-freewheeling capitalist haven resembles a police state run by the Communist Party.

  And, as John Yang tells us, Beijing is trying to extend that crackdown overseas.

• John Yang:

  Geoff, for several years now, Hong Kong has been cracking down on dissent at home.

  A strict new security law was implemented in 2020, after nearly a year of pro-democracy protests. Since then, more than 260 people have been arrested, nearly all independent media shut down, and opposition candidates disqualified from elections. Now China is trying to extend the reach of its repression by targeting critics living in exile.

  They have issued eight arrest warrants for scholars, pro-democracy activists, and former lawmakers no longer living in Hong Kong.

  Elmer Yuen is named in one of those warrants. He's a Hong Kong businessman turned online commentator now living in the United States.

  Mr. Yuen, the government accuses you of subversion, colluding with foreign forces, and they put a six-figure reward for your arrest. How does that — how do you feel? How do you react to that?

• Elmer Yuen, Hong Kong Dissident:

  I think I'm very happy, because it means that I really touch on their nerve, their weakest point.

  The whole thing about the Communist Party is, they claim that they represent all the people. And now I'm trying to form a elected Hong Kong parliament outside of Hong Kong. And this is — make them very nervous, because it's really the power of the people organized.

  And this is communist. They really — they never had the support of people. And, in fact, they have hijacked all the human rights and democracy from the — from the Chinese people and the Hong Kong people.

• John Yang:

  Why do you think they're going after people overseas, exiles?

• Elmer Yuen:

  They are trying to reach out, have their police station in many free countries.

  But they don't have the control, as in Hong Kong or in China. So the result is, they want to scare us. And they do this kind of tactic all the time. Now, only now, people start paying attention.

• John Yang:

  Sort of on that point, I know that the Hong Kong police have detained members of your family, I believe your daughter and son.

  What's your response to that?

• Elmer Yuen:

  Again, they're trying to scare me, totally illegal.

  In fact, what I'm doing is based on the universal declaration of independence. We have the right to be elected, to elect, to vote. And it's also in the Chinese Constitution and Hong Kong basic law. This is all rights given to us to form our own government and autonomy.

  So, they tried to detain my kids, tried to scare me and get me to stop, I wouldn't be surprised if they detain them for a longer period of time, like what they did to the two Michaels in Canada.

• John Yang:

  I have seen reports that quote your daughter-in-law saying publicly that she no longer speaks to you, telling the Chinese officials who have detained her that.

  Why do you think that is?

• Elmer Yuen:

  I think she has to say everything, anything just to be able to leave Hong Kong. Otherwise, Hong Kong, and China is one big prison. They don't allow people to go, to leave.

  There a lot of people like Martin Lee, Anson Chan, and also the Cardinal Zen that they don't have freedom even to leave Hong Kong.

• John Yang:

  Earlier today, a Hong Kong court rejected the government's request to ban "Glory to Hong Kong," which has become a protest anthem. Were you surprised by that?

• Elmer Yuen:

  I'm quite surprised.

  Seems like they don't have total control of the judiciary system. The judges, most of them are foreign. And they are still — they still finally like to rule by law. But, on the other hand, the U.S. Congress has been threatening sanction those national security judges.

  So that's why they may be scared. Once there's a sanction, they won't be able to travel to the free countries.

• John Yang:

  Do you think this could be a sign of — that these judges will defy the government in other areas?

• Elmer Yuen:

  I think they will. They have to choose, either they resign, or they rule according to the law, because the whole world is watching how they rule.

  And I believe that now they have to consider. And it looks like there is some recovery, because they understand this cannot go on. I think even Xi Jinping understand it cannot go on. It's really hurting the Hong Kong economy. We supply 70 percent of their foreign income.

• John Yang:

  You spoke earlier about forming a parliament in exile. How's that effort going? What are you doing to do that?

• Elmer Yuen:

  We are forming a Hong Kong parliament.

  And then I have — we have invented a mobile online voting system, very secure, so that people even in Hong Kong or outside Hong Kong can vote online without being detected or being traced. So we're doing quite well.We hope to have an election by the end of the year and elect our first member of the parliament.

  And their first duty will be to draft a constitution for Hong Kong.

• John Yang:

  Have you — are you able to communicate with not only your family, but other people in Hong Kong who may be sympathetic to your position?

• Elmer Yuen:

  All — most of the phone calls are tapped. So I communicate mostly with Hong Kongers outside Hong Kong.

• John Yang:

  So you — I'm wondering if you would have any sense of what life in Hong Kong is like right now?

• Elmer Yuen:

  Oh, I'm very familiar. We — of course, we watch — all the news is censored and controlled by the communists, all the medias in Hong Kong, whether it's TV or newspaper or magazines.

  But we do have — of course, we have friends traveling back and forth. A lot of Hong Kong people are still traveling. And I meet them all over the world, I mean, Sydney, London, Vancouver, San Francisco, everywhere. So I'm very up to date. It's like — it's like a police state, and more or less — and this national security law is more or less like martial law.

• John Yang:

  Elmer Yuen, thank you very much.

• Elmer Yuen:

  Thank you. Thank you for the interview.