Lawmakers pass landmark legislation aimed at protecting same-sex marriages

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• Judy Woodruff:

  As we reported earlier, Congress today passed landmark legislation aimed at protecting same-sex and interracial marriages.

  Lisa Desjardins has more.

• Lisa Desjardins:

  Thanks, Judy.

  Lawmakers from both chambers came together to cheer final passage of the bill, the Respect for Marriage Act. Today's move comes after Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas expressed interest in reconsidering the Supreme Court decision that protects marriage equality following the High Court's decision to overturn Roe v. Wade in June.

  Looking at all of this closely is Kate Sosin, who reports on LGBTQ+ issues for The 19th News.

  Kate, how significant is this bill?

  Kate Sosin, The 19th News: This bill, a lot of people are reporting that this protects marriage equality, and, in some ways, it does. But it doesn't codify marriage equality the way that we know it.

  What that means, basically, is, this would make marriages transportable from state to state for states that do have pro-marriage laws on the books. But for states that have bans, you still could not get married in those states.

• Lisa Desjardins:

  And that's to say, if, in fact, the Supreme Court does take the step of overturning Obergefell and changing kind of national law, this really would just make it a state-by-state situation.

  Republicans were key in passing this law, but most of them voted no, many of them saying because they were worried about religious liberties. What are their arguments? And what does the bill say about that?

• Kate Sosin:

  The Republican talking points about religious liberty are — tend to be that there's a worry that churches will be forced to perform same-sex unions.

  There are religious freedom protections in this bill. They mirror the protections that already exist. So, a church or a nonprofit that is set up for religious worship would not have to perform those unions.

  However, if you do have a nonprofit or a business that is set up and wants to do business or is accepting government funds, for example, a charity that takes money and is doing adoption services, it would probably be still subject to state laws. So, there's not new law that is created by this in terms of nondiscrimination law.

• Lisa Desjardins:

  But it's to say some of those nonprofits may have to recognize an out-of-state same-sex union if they want state funds?

• Kate Sosin:

  That's correct.

  But that's still not different from the law that we are living under right now, because we have marriage equality nationwide.

• Lisa Desjardins:

  I want to check with you about this last midterm election. This was a very high-stakes election.

  And I wonder, what's your reporting on what it meant and what it showed about LGBTQ issues and politics surrounding them right now?

• Kate Sosin:

  Yes, I think what we found was that, even though anti-LGBTQ+ rhetoric has gotten louder and louder and louder, the — what our reporting bore out was that LGBTQ+ candidates won in higher numbers than we have ever seen before.

  So, in 2018, we saw 400 out LGBTQ+ candidates run. This year, in 2022, there were 1,065 LGBTQ+ candidates on the ballot. Equality voters are just people who come out and vote for LGBTQ+ issues. So, they are a growing number of the electorate, and white evangelicals continue to shrink in numbers.

  So, I think when we talk about all of this anti-LGBTQ+ legislation, we're actually seeing this as a backlash to greater political power of LGBTQ+ people. But we often miss that part of the message, because it's not as loud.

• Lisa Desjardins:

  Just as we finish up here, thinking about those debates, and, sometimes, we're seeing ugly rhetoric, sometimes more threats of violence across this country.

  Where do you think the queer movement is right now? What is this moment right now for queer America?

• Kate Sosin:

  When I talk to advocates and experts about this, what everyone tells me is that this is how social movements go, right, that civil rights movements are often on this trajectory of, any time that there is movement forward, advancement forward, there is — there are pain points along the way, right, and that we are in one of those pain points of backlash and pain.

  And so because especially transgender people are experiencing a moment of increased visibility, rights and acceptance, there is a backlash to that. So, it's a moment of incredible acceptance and visibility, and with that will come this really painful backlash.

  And it's sometimes hard to see the moment of visibility and advancement, I think, in that.

• Lisa Desjardins:

  Kate Sosin, you can read their reporting at The 19th News.

  Thank you for joining us.

• Kate Sosin:

  Thank you for having me.