Steinem stayed true to herself despite intense pressure, Julie Taymor says

Amna Nawaz:

For more now on the life and legacy of Gloria Steinem, we're joined by Julie Taymor. She's director of the 2020 film "The Glorias," a biopic that spanned eight decades of Steinem's life.

Julie, welcome to the "News Hour." Thanks for being with us.

Julie Taymor:

Thank you for having me.

Amna Nawaz:

So I saw you smiling there as you were hearing Gloria's voice and listening to her answers.

I just want to start with your reaction to the news. What did you think when you heard the news that she had passed?

Julie Taymor:

Oh, well we knew she wasn't well, but it's such a terrible passing. We need her right now. We need that voice. And I'm glad we're bringing out the film right now again, because you have to understand this woman was an extraordinary pioneer. She really was.

And she was humble all the time, wasn't -- she never wanted her face on the cover of a magazine. People would steal it and put it there. She really -- she said things like: "Without me, there would still be a woman's movement."

She really was just an extraordinary person, a friend, and an inspiration for men and women.

Amna Nawaz:

You once said, "I thought I knew her, but I didn't," when you began working on this film.

What do you think people might not have understood about Gloria Steinem? What did you learn in telling her story?

Julie Taymor:

Well, I know the inner fears. I know what she went through when she had to keep that power face on.

Even her little laugh at the end of things that she says for people when she's critical, she had to navigate that territory that many women do, especially leaders, where they don't want to come on too strong, but they have something strong to say and to do.

I also think the joy and what she and the other women of the time of her period of them working together was such a lesson that people have to see. Most movies, they're about women who want to get a husband or have to get a divorce or dealing with an affair or clawing at each other.

And here was a woman and other women who really, really had a love affair with each other as they were working to make it better for all women all over the world. I didn't know things about how she had learned about the talking circles in India.

I mean, there were many things in the book, but one of the things that was so great with her when I was making this movie was her openness to me doing things that were surreal, her inner journey, her inner story. She was so supportive of me being the film director I am, dealing with real material in a -- sometimes with documentary, but sometimes in a surreal way, instead of saying, oh, I don't think that way.

She was extremely generous, had a great sense of humor, was gorgeous, and that didn't stop her. You know, people always would say things like that. But that was what was great about her, that she had a sense of style and knew how to simplify her dress. And yet people loved her for how she was her. She stayed true to herself.

Amna Nawaz:

And she navigated so much, including, as we noted in that report from Jeff Brown, criticism from other women that were in part of that feminist movement. You saw some of the concerns from people like Alice Walker, bell hooks, prominent Black leaders and thinkers who -- Alice Walker even leaving "Ms." magazine for the lack of diversity there.

How did Gloria take that criticism and how did she handle it moving forward?

Julie Taymor:

Well, it's one of the scenes in the movie when a Black journalist says, how do you respond to the women's move -- the Black women's movement saying that the white women's movement does not listen -- does not include them?

And she said: "I wouldn't say anything. I'd listen."

Now, the thing is that Gloria Steinem always had a Black partner, whether it was Flo Kennedy or Dorothy Pitman Hughes. She was always working with women of various locales. Dorothy, what was it -- Wilma Mankiller, the Cherokee chief, they were best friends. This is the most important friend that she had who was an extraordinary woman, or Dolores Huerta, who I spoke to when I was doing this film.

But I heard that Alice Walker was a very close friend of Gloria. So that might have been a period of time right there on "Ms." She wasn't running "Ms." by herself. She was she was always part of a collaborative team. But I know they were friends.

And Betty Friedan is an interesting thing. I didn't put her physically in the movie, but I had Bella Abzug played, oh, God, Bette Midler -- perfect -- say you have to basically confront Betty Friedan. And she says, I'm not going to do that. If she wants to be the head of the National Women's Caucus, let her do it. And they said, no.

So she wasn't really ever seeking conflict. But she had to confront it sometimes. And there -- obviously, there would be competition, like there's competition among men. So it's not like every -- that women are going to be pristine and can get away with what's not essentially human.

Amna Nawaz:

Julie, in the minute or so I have left, I have to ask you because you were with her in a couple of key moments, election night in 2016. You were there with cameras. You thought that you would witness her witnessing the first woman president in America, and then you followed her instead on the Women's March that followed that election.

What did you learn from her and take away from her in those more fraught moments?

Julie Taymor:

Yes, well, at -- we were at Samantha Power's apartment, the ambassador to the U.N., and there were 40 women from different countries there, and you watched the night go on as each of these women, these ambassadors, knew that it would be difficult for them, for the women in their countries.

The last person in that room that night before she went over to see Hillary was Gloria Steinem. And these were her words: "We have to look at the upside of the downside."

And if there was any haiku for her spirit, that's how I -- that's what I get from her, which is always looking to, OK, don't be defeated. Do. Don't -- you have to act.

And then we did. We took the documentary crew to Washington, D.C. It's in my film. The film has four Glorias, plus the fifth, the real one. And to listen to her speak at that and say that this is what democracy is about it, it makes you cry right now. It actually -- I haven't seen it today. I saw it this summer. It was being screened.

And I hope it gets screened now so people can really see her in action and understand her full life. But she was a positive energy, positive force, and not just for women. This is the thing. It was about relationships between men and women, how to live in an equal society.

So, yes, yes.

Amna Nawaz:

Julie, I know it's a tough day for you. We can't thank you enough for taking the time to join us, Julie Taymor.

Julie Taymor:

Thank you very much.