‘Stop the Steal’ flag at Supreme Court Justice Alito’s home raises concerns

Laura Barron-Lopez:

The lie that President Biden stole the 2020 presidential election which led to the violent January 6 insurrection is alive and well. A CBS investigation found that there are nearly 80 officials overseeing elections across seven battleground states who don't believe the 2020 election results or supported the actions of January 6.

On the campaign trail Saturday, former president Donald Trump again lied about his 2020 defeat.

Donald Trump, Former U.S. President:

But they want to rigged that just like they rigged the presidential election of 2020. They want to rig it.

Laura Barron-Lopez:

And we also learned this week that a symbol of the Stop the Steal movement reached the highest court in the land. The New York Times reported that in January of 2021, an upside down American flag and emblem now widely associated with the lie of a stolen 2020 election was flying at the home of Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito, I spoke with Jody Kanter, The New York Times reporter who broke the story earlier today.

We discussed the implications of such a symbol flying Alito's home 11 days after rioters stormed the Capitol.

Jodi Kantor, The New York Times:

I kind of want to start with the neighbors and what they saw. They're walking down the street during this very fret period, as you say, right after January 6, but also critically, it's three days before President Biden's inauguration. And they see this upside down flag hanging outside the Alito home.

At this point, that flag had really become a symbol of the Stop the Steal campaign. And neighbors are just having a kind of what the heck reaction. Because first of all, these are Washington DC area people they know that federal judges are never supposed to make political displays. That is a very bedrock rule.

And second of all, they're looking at and saying wait a second, are the Alito's insurrectionists who oppose the peaceful transfer of power? It leads to these bedrock questions about law and trust and rules and democracy.

Laura Barron-Lopez:

In response to your reporting, Justice Alito said that he had, quote, no involvement in placing the flag that his wife, Mrs. Alito put up the flag in response to a neighbor of theirs a display that they had.

So I just want to dive into this because what are the implications of his response? Did he not know that this upside down flag was flying outside of his home for multiple days?

Jodi Kantor:

Well, the response is a fascinating one, because first of all, he's not denying that it was there. He's not denying knowledge that it was there. And he's not denying that this was a Stop the Steal symbol. He's making a kind of surprising argument, which is to say, even though this was my home, and even though judicial ethics rules are all about the impression of a lack of fairness, they're not only focused on what you actually do as a judge. They're focused on the impression you give other people.

And he's saying despite all of that, this was, you know, just something my wife did and part of a neighborhood spat.

Laura Barron-Lopez:

Why does this revelation matter? Now, as the Court prepares to rule on two cases involving the January 6 insurrection?

Jodi Kantor:

In the next few weeks, we are going to get two major decisions from the Supreme Court that are going to shape the legacy of January 6, the accountability for January 6. Former President Trump's scope of accountability, it may shape the future criminal trial, if one takes place, it could really also directly affect the next election because polls are showing that whether or not former President Trump is convicted might have some impact on what voters think of him.

So, the court already had an enormous challenge in getting these decisions kind of accepted by the American people. It's such a partisan time. Everything is so fractured. These cases are so politically fraught. It makes it much more challenging for the court to earn broad acceptance of whatever their legal reasoning is, and whatever the outcome is.

Laura Barron-Lopez:

Alito isn't the only Supreme Court justice with apparent ethics violations. Justice Clarence Thomas's wife, Ginny Thomas was directly involved in the efforts to overturn the 2020 election and he has refused to recuse himself from any related cases.

Do you think that this time will be any different?

Jodi Kantor:

So recusal is an interesting question. On the one hand, so there are two categories of rules we're dealing with. One is the code of conduct for judges. That's really the ethics code. That's voluntary. The court recently adopted a new one, it's pretty loose. It's not that strong. That is what govern things like political displays.

The second set of rules we're dealing with is a federal recusal statute that binds all federal judges, including Supreme Court justices. But at the Supreme Court, it's essentially self-administered. And the Court has said that justices have to police their own recusal.

So, I don't think Justice Alito has spoken directly to this. But as you know, he was already involved in the case. And I don't see any sign right now that he's planning to recuse himself halfway through the process.

Laura Barron-Lopez:

Jodi, finally, the Stop the Steal lies about a stolen 2020 election haven't gone away. Donald Trump continues to say that he won in 2020. Election denialism is essentially a litmus test for entrance to the GOP. What do you think this flag incident means looking forward to the 2024 election?

Jodi Kantor:

So first of all, I think we have to see, we just broke this news a few days ago. Let's see how it enters the bloodstream. But the idea of a Supreme Court justice flying this flag outside his home, even if it was his wife, as he says, I think does connote a kind of mainstreaming of stop the steal, it says that, you know, this was accepted by a lot of people, a lot of people in power, and that even if it was his wife who did it, that flag didn't come down for a couple of days.

So I think you're right to ask the question, and let's see how this becomes part of the bigger story of what happened in the last election and what will happen in the next one.

Laura Barron-Lopez:

Jodi Kantor of The New York Times, thank you for your time.

Jodi Kantor:

Thanks for having me.