U.S. military strikes on suspected drug smugglers spark legal and diplomatic concerns

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• Geoff Bennett:

  The Trump White House is signaling a new war on drug cartels. Today, the U.S. designated two Ecuadorian gangs as foreign terrorist organizations. And, on Monday, the president released video of what the administration's says was a strike on a drug-running boat off the coast of Venezuela, where the U.S. Navy now has ships deployed.

  Nick Schifrin takes a closer look at what happened and at the administration's case for both the policy and the legality of this renewed focus on drug trafficking.

• Nick Schifrin:

  In the Southern Caribbean, a new war on drugs, what has for years been a law enforcement mission now a military operation that President Trump calls the most effective deterrent.

  Donald Trump, President of the United States: They were hit, obviously. They won't be doing it again. And I think a lot of other people won't be doing it again when they watch that tape.

• Nick Schifrin:

  The Trump administration has deployed to the region warships and thousands of sailors and Marines that are actively pursuing drug smugglers, Secretary of State Marco Rubio said today.

  Marco Rubio, U.S. Secretary of State: But this time, we're not just going to hunt for drug dealers with the little fast boats and say, let's try to arrest them. No, we're — the president has said he wants to wage war on these groups because they have been waging war on us for 30 years and no one has responded.

• Nick Schifrin:

  For decades, the U.S. has responded to the region's supply of drugs through interception. The Coast Guard has legal authority to pursue and arrest smugglers. And the Drug Enforcement Agency and other civilian agencies work with regional partners to target supply routes and production in remote drug labs.

  But the Trump administration argues fentanyl alone has killed nearly 200,000 Americans in the last three years, more Americans killed than in war over the last six decades. And the Trump administration has labeled drug cartels foreign terrorist organizations and Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro the leader of a specially designated global terrorist cartel.

  The Trump administration says this week's strike killed 11 — quote — "narco-terrorists" who belonged to Tren de Aragua, which the administration's says is connected to Maduro. But, today, Venezuela's justice minister called the strike unjust.

  Diosdado Cabello, Venezuelan Minister of Interior, Justice and Peace (through translator): What the United States presented as a strike against drug traffickers was nothing more than an illegal massacre in international waters. They violated international law.

• Nick Schifrin:

  And to discuss this shift in U.S. policy, we get two views.

  Retired Rear Admiral William Baumgartner commanded U.S. Coast Guard operations in the Southeast U.S. and Caribbean and before that was the Coast Guard's judge advocate general chief counsel, the service's top uniform lawyer. And Michael Brown had a 32-year career as a special agent at the Drug Enforcement Administration, where he operated in Latin America. He's now the director of global counter-narcotics technology at Rigaku Analytical Devices, a company that makes devices that can identify unknown chemicals and precursors of drugs.

  Thanks very much. Welcome, both of you, to the "News Hour."

  Michael Brown, let me start with you.

  This new approach that the Trump administration to use the military to target these fast boats and these cartels in the region, is that the right approach?

  Michael Brown, Global Director of Counter-Narcotics Technology, Rigaku Analytical Devices: Well, I think, given the escalation in the use of fentanyl, which is now killing an estimated 100,000 individuals a year, roughly 200 individuals a day, the threat by the cartels has been a terrorist threat for some years, in my opinion.

  I think now we have an administration that understands that threat, that it surpasses criminal activity of a criminal organization and that they are now acting as a terrorist organization. So the implementation of the kinetic strike to combat maritime go-fast traffic I think now is an appropriate reaction to the threat that the United States faces.

• Nick Schifrin:

  Admiral, do you believe this is an appropriate response to the threat that cartels pose?

  Rear Adm. William Baumgartner (Ret), U.S. Coast Guard: I think the military can certainly supplement law enforcement efforts. We have been doing it for decades and decades.

  In the Caribbean, it's worked very effectively when we have had enough platforms in the coordinated law enforcement method. Enough platforms is what we need. If we're going to commit more platforms with the military, let's do that, but let's do it within the bounds of the law.

• Nick Schifrin:

  So, within the bounds of the law, Mike Brown, you just heard the admiral say. What's wrong with keeping this within a law enforcement approach, just with an addition of military presence, not necessarily these military strikes?

• Michael Brown:

  Well, I have been doing this for 32 years, and I worked in Central and South America, worked in the Caribbean. This is about degrading the abilities of the major cartels who are working in conjunction with Maduro in Venezuela as well, who's also been designated as the head of a narco-state.

  So these mitigating efforts are to break down and destroy the drug supply chains, the cocaine supply chains that fund the operations of the Sinaloa cartel and the new Jalisco New Generation Cartel. So this is just one part of a much larger kinetic action, asymmetrical approach, which needs to be taken to counter the growth and evolution of narco-terrorism that we are now facing.

• Nick Schifrin:

  So, Admiral, what's wrong with that? If for 30 years the U.S. has taken a law enforcement approach, why not add this military kinetic action?

• Rear Adm. William Baumgartner (Ret):

  All we did with this military kinetic action is blow up a boat. We don't really know what was on it. We don't have a legitimate — a clear legitimate reason for attacking this particular vessel.

  In a law enforcement approach, we obviously do. Plus, we get prisoners that provide us intelligence, so that we can further develop what's going on. Here, this vessel was on the high seas. It wasn't close to the United States. We didn't have any legal justification for acting on that particular vessel. We didn't use any of the frameworks that we have developed over the last 50 years to approach this in a lawful manner.

• Nick Schifrin:

  Let's take a listen on the question of whether this was legal to Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth.

• Pete Hegseth, U.S. Defense Secretary:

  Every boatload of any form of drug that poisons the American people is an imminent threat. And at the DOD, our job is to defeat imminent threats. A foreign terrorist organization poisoning your people with drugs coming from a drug cartel is no different than al-Qaida. And they will be treated as such.

• Nick Schifrin:

  So, Mike Brown, are these boats imminent threats? And should foreign terrorist organizations as designated by the Trump administration be treated like al-Qaida?

• Michael Brown:

  Well, that's the whole purpose between the president's new designation of FTOs, foreign terrorist organizations, which he outlined the top narco threats to the United States.

  And if these organizations are so engaged in that activity, supplying narcotics, which are poisoning American citizens, then those actions need to be taken. We took the same actions against al-Qaida and against ISIS. I spent a year in Afghanistan. And they were very effective in degrading — the drone strikes were very effective in degrading the capability of those organizations to threaten America.

  You know, we don't want the narcotics to get to America. That's the whole point. Strike them when they're in international waters, when they're in the jungles of Columbia and preventing them from coming to the United States.

• Nick Schifrin:

  Admiral, could you respond to Secretary Hegseth's statement? Every boatload of any form of drug that poisons the American people is an imminent threat and they will be treated like they are al-Qaida.

• Rear Adm. William Baumgartner (Ret):

  Well, first of all, they're not al-Qaida. Al-Qaida set forth to kill American citizens. As much as we despise what the cartels are doing and what their narcotics may do when they get to the United States, they are providing something that is being demanded by the American public.

  It's — and we should be addressing demand. We certainly should be doing that. But to liken this to al-Qaida and what al-Qaida wants to do to our people, it's just not the same at all. And the designations of foreign terrorist organization is not to start is not to — it does not justify lethal force against them wherever you find them, whenever you want to find them.

  It is to cut off material support to those organizations. It's a very well-defined statute as to what it means. And it does not mean open season and kill anybody you think might be a member of one of those organizations.

• Nick Schifrin:

  Michael Brown, you're not a lawyer, but can you respond to that? Do these authorities really allow the U.S. military to take the strike?

• Michael Brown:

  I think absolutely.

  In terms of the trafficking organizations, especially the Sinaloa cartel, they have weaponized fentanyl. They know that fentanyl is killing thousands of Americans every year, and yet they continue to distribute that narcotic. And so we have a very short time to act within the U.S. to mitigate this threat in order to save more American lives.

• Nick Schifrin:

  Admiral, you were the top uniform lawyer in the Coast Guard. If you had the ability or if the military had the ability in years past when you were in that position to take this strike, what would your advice have been?

• Rear Adm. William Baumgartner (Ret):

  Well, first of all, I will tell you, I was the commander in charge of doing these operations in the Caribbean. That's what I did in my last three years in service. So forget about whether I was — my legal advice would be.

  I was the commander that would have taken charge and directed the law enforcement action in the Caribbean. We absolutely would not have launched a lethal strike on a vessel when there was no warning to the vessel, we didn't even know for sure who was on the vessel, we didn't know the destination of the vessel, and hadn't enacted any of the multiple procedures that we have for interdicting, identifying, and appropriately addressing the vessel.

• Nick Schifrin:

  Michael Brown, do you have faith that the intelligence was good enough to take that strike?

• Michael Brown:

  Well, based on my understanding of the investigation, what I have obtained from my own sources, this was a targeted strike. The information was specific. They knew the vessel was carrying narcotics, the video of the vessel — I have seen thousands of these videos. This vessel was definitely carrying a large sum of narcotics to somewhere in the Caribbean.

  DEA has sources of information which could identify hundreds of these vessels. We just didn't have the resources to interdict them. Now we do. And this sends a very clear message to anyone who's willing to transport narcotics from Venezuela to the Caribbean or to the United States that once you enter international waters, you will be seen as a terrorist organization and you will be treated as such.

• Nick Schifrin:

  Admiral, just take on that last point, the point of deterrence. The president has made this point. Does this deter future drug smugglers from trying to go from Venezuela or the Caribbean up to the United States?

• Rear Adm. William Baumgartner (Ret):

  Well, I think what it deters, it deters the rest of the international community from cooperating with the United States.

  The United States has been a leader in building coalitions. We have done that on legitimacy. We have done that on the rule of law. This will deter all of those nations from cooperating with us and will do great harm to our ability to address this problem. Will it deter an individual vessel from launching and trying to make a trek? I don't really know if it will.

• Nick Schifrin:

  Admiral Bill Baumgartner and Michael Brown, thank you very much.

• Michael Brown:

  Thank you.

• Rear Adm. William Baumgartner (Ret):

  Thank you.