Ukraine national security head discusses U.S. intelligence leak, new weapons deliveries

Geoff Bennett:

The American and NATO commitment to help Ukraine defend itself was reinforced today with the announcement from Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin of a timetable for training Ukrainian troops with American tanks.

But there is tension in the relationship over the amount and kind of weapons supplied and recent revelations of American spying.

Special correspondent Volodymyr Solohub sat down this week with a top Ukrainian security official for a candid conversation on these matters and more.

Volodymyr Solohub:

Today, another show of support for Ukraine and its war against Russia's invasion. Defense officials from nearly 50 nations met in Germany to step up weapons deliveries.

Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin said what Kyiv needs most is ground-based air defense.

Lloyd Austin, U.S. Secretary of Defense: You have heard us say that for the last several months. We will continue to say that, because we have to make sure that the Ukrainians have the ability to protect their infrastructure, protect their citizens, but also protect troops.

Volodymyr Solohub:

Earlier this week, Ukraine received more U.S. air defense systems, or Patriots, able to intercept Russian missiles.

But the U.S. is also helping Ukrainian soldiers improve its ground defenses and will begin training over 200 Ukrainian troops on how to use Abrams tanks; 31 of them will be delivered later this year. An additional $325 million military aid also includes rockets for the lethal High Mobility Artillery Rocket System, or HIMARS.

But at a NATO briefing yesterday, President Zelenskyy asked for longer-range and more powerful weapons, including warplanes.

Volodymyr Zelenskyy, Ukrainian President (through translator):

I turned to Mr. Secretary-General with a request to help us overcome the restraint of our partners in supplying certain types of weapons. Slowing down such decisions means losing time for peace.

Volodymyr Solohub:

In Ukraine's east, the battle has no end in sight. Ukrainian soldiers fire on Russian positions near Bakhmut, where they have fought a months-long war of attrition.

Leading Russian advances in Bakhmut are Wagner Group mercenaries, many of them criminals recruited from prison and sent to the front. But Ukrainian officials say their troops are holding out and preparing for an impending counteroffensive.

Oleksiy Danilov is the secretary of Ukraine's National Security and Defense Council. We spoke to him earlier this week and asked him about the situation in Bakhmut.

Oleksiy Danilov, Ukrainian National Security and Defense Council Secretary: For Russians, Bakhmut has become very symbolic, because they haven't been able to get rid of our troops there for a long time. Every inch of our land is our territory, and we will be defending it.

If we start giving up town after town, we can end up on our western borders. Our military will not do this and is not planning to do this.

Volodymyr Solohub:

Both President Zelenskyy, ministry of defense has been constantly asking for more and more weapons. What are the current needs for the weaponry right now for Ukraine?

Oleksiy Danilov (through translator):

Many countries are fulfilling their promises, unfortunately, not all of them. They know our needs for our military. I can't specify what exactly we're talking about, because these negotiations happen behind closed doors.

Volodymyr Solohub:

What are the explanations you're hearing from your Western partners on why you're not getting the requested weapons at the time when you're requesting them?

Oleksiy Danilov (through translator):

It's a complex question. We cannot push too hard here because it's assistance. Of course, sometimes, we have rather unpleasant conversations. But we're not seeing today that someone is not fulfilling their promises at all. We are getting help.

But, of course, we wish it would happen faster. We proved and we will keep proving that all of the plans that the Russian Federation had with respect to our country will be destroyed. They will be destroyed by our army and by our people.

Volodymyr Solohub:

But a recent intelligence leak of Pentagon documents show Ukraine's prospects are dire and detail a shortage of Ukrainian equipment and weaponry.

Did this somehow affect the Ukrainian plans for a counteroffensive?

Oleksiy Danilov (through translator):

We have a number of these plans. And depending on the circumstances and situations that we will have, when the decision counteroffensive is made by the president of Ukraine without by our military, we will implement this or another plan.

Volodymyr Solohub:

These leaked documents, they also showed that U.S. government is clearly spying on Ukraine.

Oleksiy Danilov (through translator):

I will let you in on a little secret. Everyone is gathering intel on everyone. If you think that no one is gathering intelligence on the U.S. government, then you're mistaken.

It is a different question when this data is made public. It must be uncomfortable for those who should have prevented that.

Volodymyr Solohub:

But the leaks also revealed that the U.S. has eyes on Russia's military, including its planned attacks and an estimate of Russian casualties since the war began.

Did this leak tell you something about Russia and Russian military that you didn't know before?

Oleksiy Danilov (through translator):

With respect to the state of the Russian military, we know exactly what is happening there. And that's why we told us that we will win this war. I think the U.S. made a mistake when they thought they knew Russia.

And, right now, I want to save this. Russia is at the brink of disintegration. And many countries don't want to see this. Russia is slowly disintegrating. And you should be ready for that.

Volodymyr Solohub:

Can you provide a timeline or conditions on what needs to happen for this fragmentation?

Oleksiy Danilov (through translator):

Three to seven years maximum, the Russian Federation will not exist in the form it exists right now, period.

Volodymyr Solohub:

But Ukrainian cities that Russia has occupied have nearly ceased to exist. The war has taken a punishing toll on civilians. Thousands have been killed, and Ukraine is investigating over 70,000 war crimes.

Last month, the International Criminal Court indicted Russian President Vladimir Putin and Presidential Commissioner for Children's Rights Maria Lvova-Belova for the crime of stealing Ukrainian children.

Oleksiy Danilov (through translator):

A person that kills children, civilians, that destroys the territory of another country cannot be called otherwise than a terrorist.

And if, today, someone thinks that we should sit in a negotiating table with a person that gives orders to kill children, then it's madness. We are not afraid of them. And we are not going to be afraid. We will not give our country to anyone.

Volodymyr Solohub:

To keep their country, Ukraine wants more Western weapons to launch its long-promised counteroffensive. But the fighting in the east is ongoing, with a massive toll on the country and its people.

For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Volodymyr Solohub in Kyiv.