What Aaron Rodgers’ controversy tells us about vaccine skepticism in professional sports

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• Judy Woodruff:

  Throughout the pandemic, many celebrities have encouraged people to get a COVID vaccine, often showing themselves getting a shot.

  But there are others, such as singer Nicki Minaj, who have spoken out against vaccinations, and even spread misinformation. That is happening as well with some high-profile athletes who have a prominent public platform.

  John Yang has the story.

• John Yang:

  Speaking with reporters in August, Green Bay Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers implied he was inoculated against COVID-19.

• Question:

  Are you vaccinated? And what's your stance on vaccinations?

• Aaron Rodgers, Green Bay Packers:

  Yes, I have been immunized.

  There's guys on the team that haven't been vaccinated. I think it's a personal decision. I'm not going to judge those guys.

• John Yang:

  But after testing positive, the reigning league MVP was in required isolation for last Sunday's game against the Kansas City Chiefs.

  On Pat McAfee's satellite radio show last week, Rodgers acknowledged he is not vaccinated.

• Aaron Rodgers:

  I believe strongly in bodily autonomy and the ability to make choices for your body.

• John Yang:

  Rodgers said he has concerns about all three federally approved vaccines, and was denied league approval for an alternative treatment, which he said he underwent in consultation with Joe Rogan, the talk show host and prominent vaccine skeptic.

  This week, Rodgers was back on McAfee's show with a different play.

• Aaron Rodgers:

  I made some comments that people may have felt were misleading. And to anybody who felt misled by those comments, I take full responsibility.

• John Yang:

  Rodgers is one of a handful of high-profile professional athletes who have either declined to get vaccinated or be fully forthcoming about their status, in spite of league rules and local vaccine mandates.

  Brooklyn Nets point guard Kyrie Irving has yet to play a game this season because New York City requires anyone entering an indoor arena to show proof of vaccination, and the team won't use him only in games out of the city.

  Nets head coach Steve Nash:

• Steve Nash, Brooklyn Nets Head Coach:

  I support the decision. And if things change, we'd love to have Kyrie back.

• John Yang:

  Rodgers is paying a price. A Green Bay-based health care provider, Prevea Health, ended its nine-year partnership him, saying it "remains deeply committed to protecting its patients, staff, providers, and communities amidst the COVID-19 pandemic. This includes encouraging and helping all eligible populations to become vaccinated against COVID-19."

  And this week, the NFL fined Rodgers $14, 650 for breaking league rules by not wearing a mask when talking with reporters and attending an event with other players outside team facilities. The Packers were fined $300,000 for not policing his behavior.

  Rodgers could be cleared to play in this Sunday's game against the Seattle Seahawks.

  Will Leitch is a contributing editor for "New York Magazine" and has been writing about the issue.

  Will, thanks for joining us.

  So many people are talking about the Rodgers case, not just football fans, but sort of casual football fans. Why do you think Aaron Rodgers' case is resonating so much?

  Will Leitch, "New York Magazine": Well, Aaron Rodgers, in a lot of ways, was a quarterback that I think a lot of people thought they knew.

  And I think — remember, he was — had offered to take off a year of in play in the NFL to host "Jeopardy," not something you generally would assume someone who would be a vaccine skeptic. He was like — he's very outgoing. He's very open on social media. He's actually been actually quite seeming progressive on some topics.

  He was very eloquent during the racial protests last summer of, like, really talking about kind of supporting social justice. And for a lot of people, I think there was a notion that Rodgers was the smart quarterback and was the one that was somewhat — was very ahead of the game and very kind of the quarterback that was maybe different from what people fairly or unfairly will consider like a dumb jock stereotype.

  And I think he's on the State Farm ads. He's funny in those ads. He was a good "Jeopardy" host.

• John Yang:

  You know, we mentioned the fine, $14,000. We should also note that he is in the second year of a four-year $134 million contract.

  The same week, the NFL fined a cowboys player, CeeDee Lamb, for wearing an untucked uniform. That fine was $20,000. What do you make of that?

• Will Leitch:

  Well, on one hand, I think what — the Packers were also, of course, fined for not having some of the protocols in place.

  I think it's not actually — you don't have to be vaccinated to play in the NFL. I think that's been a little lost a little bit. And I also think the idea that there are more — I think people think there are more unvaccinated players in the NFL than they are.

  Rodgers didn't break any rules by not being vaccinated. But by not wearing the mask, it was a minor thing in generally the way the Packers kind of run the program. But I think what was really the issue, and I think why they didn't fine him too much is, basically, what he did was he deceived people, which — and, frankly, deceive people in a press conference, which I will say, if the NFL started fining people for that, there would be a lot of fines, I would say.

  I think that the protocols he generally — the team is the one that is seen to have not adhered by the protocols. Remember, the team surely knew that he was not vaccinated. The NFL surely knew that he was not vaccinated.

• John Yang:

  And talking about the other — the instance with Kyrie Irving, the NBA commissioner, Adam Silver, has said he would prefer to have a vaccine mandate, but the players union objected.

  What does that say about the — sort of the balance of power in professional sports these days?

• Will Leitch:

  I think that player unions are wary of any sort of management having any extra power over labor than they already do.

  And so I certainly understand that in a macro sense. A lot of players will argue — and, frankly, leagues will argue this as well — in a lot of ways, the NFL and the NBA don't have vaccination problems. The NBA has 96 percent of its players vaccinated. The NFL has 95 percent of its players vaccinated.

  I have to tell you, you or I should feel so fortunate to walk around, to be around 95 or 96 percent of people vaccinated. It's these high-profile cases like Rodgers, like Irving that make people think that there is some sort of larger issue.

  They're — I think the leaks would argue, and I think fairly, that they have not actually had mandates, but have still had buy-in to a degree that's much higher than the general population. And I think, when people like Rodgers — people think that, like, oh, here's this NFL player or Irving, this NBA player, what's — why is there a vaccine resistance in sports?

  There really kind of isn't. It's just when — these high-profile things, it makes it look like there is.

• John Yang:

  And in his high-profile response, Aaron Rodgers hit sort of hit all the hot buttons. He talked about cancel culture. He talked about woke mobs. He talked about a media witch-hunt.

  And you also talked about how he had been on sort of racial justice and Black Lives Matter, and how Kyrie Irving had been on Black Lives Matter. Is this — in some sense, could this be seen as a logical extension of players speaking out on social issues?

• Will Leitch:

  Certainly, I do think that this is the age of player empowerment in a lot of ways. And there are a lot of positives to that.

  I think that we have really spent a lot of the last year-and-a-half saying, listen to athletes. They have stories to tell. They're from communities that have been overlooked for a long time. This is certainly a downside to that, in that there is influence that these athletes have.

  To be fair, they have always had this sort of influence. I would love — like, Charles Barkley famously, years ago said, "I'm not a role model."

  But we have kind of encouraged athletes to speak their mind on things. And, unfortunately, sometimes, they're going to be eloquent, and, sometimes, they're going to talk very wisely about issues that affect them, and, sometimes, they're going to quote Joe Rogan talking points.

  So, I think that there is a downside to that. I think the thing with Rodgers, and I think the reason his has resonated so much, it really feels like a surprise. It really feels like we have learned something about an athlete that we thought we knew, and it's very different than the perception we had of that athlete.

• John Yang:

  Will Leitch of "New York Magazine," thank you very much.

• Will Leitch:

  My pleasure. Thanks for having me.