Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz

 

Read an excerpt from the introductory “A Message from Rabbi Adin Even-Israel Steinsaltz” to the Koren Talmud Bavli

BOB ABERNETHY, correspondent: We have a profile today of one of the most respected rabbis in the world. He is a seventy-four-year-old Israeli, Adin Steinsaltz, the author of 60 books on ethics, theology, prayer, and mysticism, with a few mystery novels included. Rabbi Steinsaltz is most admired for a monumental project that took him 45 years, sometimes working 17 hour days. He translated the Babylonian Talmud from ancient Hebrew and Aramaic into Modern Hebrew. The Torah is Judaism’s holiest text, Genesis through Deuteronomy. The Talmud is commentary on the Torah. But in its original languages, the Talmud was studied primarily by students and scholars. Now, the Steinsaltz Talmud makes it available to everyone.

The holiest site in all Judaism is in Jerusalem, the Western Wall of the Second Temple, destroyed in the year 70. The devout come to the wall to pray, and so do many thirteen-year-old boys at the time of their Bar Mitzvahs, when they take on the full responsibilities of adults. One of those duties is studying the Torah, with its 613 laws about how to live. The Torah, for Rabbi Steinsaltz, is a divine guide, a map of the paths and the main road through a world of danger and blessings—in his words, lions and angels.

RABBI ADIN STEINSALTZ: We are living in a world we really don’t know what are the paths. We don’t know what are the ways. We don’t even know what the main road is. So we need some kinds of signs to tell us that here live lions, and here possibly live angels. That’s mostly what the Torah is, a book basically of instructions: go this way, go the other way, do it, don’t do it. So that’s as simple as that.

ABERNETHY: Holy as the Torah is, its laws are in some ways unclear. For instance, it requires keeping the Sabbath, but it never explains exactly how. So the Talmud emerged, first as an oral tradition, later written down—centuries of rabbinical commentaries interpreting the Torah’s laws and arguing over them. Rabbi Steinsaltz began his translation of the Talmud when he was 28. It took him 45 years and ran to 45 volumes.

RABBI STEINSALTZ: It was necessary because it is an important book. I once called it the center pillar of our culture.

ABERNETHY: Recently, Steinsaltz was in New York City teaching and explaining what is unique about the Steinsaltz Talmud—his own commentary and extensive background.

RABBI STEINSALTZ: You have here the original Hebrew, the translation in English, and then you have, you see, notes about the law.

ABERNETHY: With his many books as well as his Talmud translation, the rabbi personifies Judaism’s commitment to learning and to argument as a means of understanding.

RABBI STEINSALTZ: The idea of the Talmud is that you are allowed to ask questions about anything, everything that can be done, encouraging you to ask questions, trying to find answers.

Yeshivat Chovevei Torah Rabbinical Students: And the rabbis let her then remarry. Even though there was only one witness.

ABERNETHY: Every day students and scholars around the world study and question and debate the meanings of the Torah and Talmud and the arguments of rabbis who have studied them. There is no single authority to decide how best to interpret the religious law, but argument over the centuries can lead to general agreement—until the next question and the next argument.

Steinsaltz was raised in a secular Jewish family, but his father insisted he study the sacred texts so he would not grow up ignorant. I asked him how he became religious.

RABBI STEINSALTZ: It was almost spontaneous. I don’t know where that came from. Believing in God is in a way is the most natural, perhaps even the most primitive notion that people have.

Rabbi SteinsaltzABERNETHY: But belief, said Steinsaltz, is just the beginning.

RABBI STEINSALTZ: What is really difficult is not so much the belief but the relationship. I’m still striving to become better, to become faithful for serving Him, to become a human being as He possibly wants me to be.

ABERNETHY: Steinsaltz sees all human beings as God’s partners in what Jews call tikkun olam, repairing the world.

RABBI STEINSALTZ: The Lord says I made the world. It’s pretty good, but there are all kinds of holes in it. You people go, and you make the amendments—bigger ones, smaller ones. But you, that’s your duty.

ABERNETHY: The rabbi says even the smallest good deed can have a global result, the so-called butterfly effect.

RABBI STEINSALTZ: The movement of the wings of a butterfly can change the world, and the point is basically we live in one world. Any movement in this world somehow affects everything else. So when we do anything better, we change the world.

ABERNETHY: If Jews study the Torah, if they honor the Sabbath and the other holy days, if they do good deeds and partner with God, Steinsaltz says they will achieve holiness. He also says everyone possesses a divine spark.

RABBI STEINSALTZ: This spark is in a way trying to find its way to the main fire, and then it wants to sink into the main fire.

ABERNETHY: Steinsaltz said he saw no signs of any early peace in the Middle East, but he insisted that he had not despaired.

RABBI STEINSALTZ: I am an optimist, meaning that I see things as black as they are, but I still hope.

ABERNETHY: Talking with the rabbi, it was clear that his optimism rests on his absolute trust in God.

RABBI STEINSALTZ: When you believe that, you see, everything comes from the Lord.so whenever something happens if it’s a glad thing, I’m saying thank you for making me happy or healthy or satisfied. If something untoward happens to me, I’s saying the same thing. Please, thank you for letting me know that you exist.

God exists everywhere in every way in every form. We have so many prayers in our religion, so many prayers, but sometimes the prayer is just like I pick up the phone and say hello, I’m glad that you are there.

ABERNETHY: Steinsaltz said he would like to be remembered as a person who did something to make the world better. He also said he would like to live another hundred years—teaching, writing, doing what he can to repair the world and to become, as he put it, the human being God possibly wants him to be.

Next month the first four volumes of the Steinsaltz Talmud in English are due to come out.


BOOK EXCERPT:

Read an excerpt from the introductory “A Message from Rabbi Adin Even-Israel Steinsaltz” to the Koren Talmud Bavli. Posted with permission from Koren Publishers Jerusalem:

The Talmud is the cornerstone of Jewish culture. True, our culture originated in the Bible and has branched out in directions besides the Talmud, yet the latter’s influence on Jewish culture is fundamental. Perhaps because it was composed not by a single individual, but rather by hundreds and thousands of Sages in batei midrash in an ongoing, millennium-long process, the Talmud expresses not only the deepest themes and values of the Jewish people, but also of the Jewish spirit. As the basic study text for young and old, laymen and learned, the Talmud may be said to embody the historical trajectory of the Jewish soul. It is, therefore, best studied interactively, its subject matter coming together with the student’s questions, perplexities, and innovations to form a single intricate weave. In the entire scope of Jewish culture, there is not one area that does not draw from or converse with the Talmud. The study of Talmud is thus the gate through which a Jew enters his life’s path. The Koren Talmud Bavli seeks to render the Talmud accessible to the millions of Jews whose mother tongue is English, allowing them to study it, approach it, and perhaps even become one with it.


Dana Greene on Poet Denise Levertov

Watch our October 24 interview at the National Portrait Gallery in Washington, DC with biographer Dana Greene, author of Denise Levertov: A Poet’s Life (University of Illinois Press, 2012). Levertov (1923-1997) was a poet of doubt and faith, Christianity and Judaism, war and peace, protest, lament, nature, spirituality, and more. Her life and poetic development, both religious in their origins, are gracefully captured in Greene’s acclaimed new biography, described as “an authoritative portrait of one of the central figures in American poetry of the last fifty years.” Levertov’s photograph by David Geier is part of the Smithsonian’s National Portrait Gallery exhibition on “Poetic Likeness: Modern American Poets,” curated by David C. Ward. Produced by Lauren Talley. Edited by Fred Yi. Interview by Missy Daniel.

 

Life of Pi

Read an excerpt from LIFE OF PI by Yann Martel

DEBORAH POTTER, correspondent: On the surface, it’s an adventure story about a boy who survives a shipwreck in a lifeboat, alone, except for a man-eating tiger. But at a deeper level, “Life of Pi” explores the meaning and endurance of faith—an unusual theme for a Hollywood movie that critics have called “dazzling” and “magical.” For director Ang Lee, the experience of translating the best-selling novel to the screen required a leap of faith.

ANG LEE (Director, Life of Pi): It is a journey, as a test of the strength of our faith, of how firm we believe in it. I think that has to be the number one thing I took from the experience.

POTTER: In some ways, the story of young Piscine Patel, known as Pi, defies belief from the start. The son of a zoo-keeper, the boy is raised Hindu but also practices Christianity and Islam, to the disappointment of his father.

Director Ang Lee, Life of Pi

Dad: You cannot follow three different religions at the same time Piscine.

Pi: Why not?

Dad: Because believing in everything at the same time is the same as not believing in anything at all. Listen, instead of leaping from one religion to the next, why not start with reason. In a few hundred years, science has taken us farther in understanding the universe than the religion has in 10,000.

Mom: Science can teach us more about what is out there, but not what is in here. (touches heart)

Dad: I much rather have you believe in something I don’t agree with than to accept everything blindly, and that begins with thinking rationally. You understand? Good.

Pi: I would like to be baptized. (Brother laughs, mom smiles.)

David Magee, Screenwriter, Life of Pi

DAVID MAGEE (Screenwriter, Life of Pi): The openness to faith that it asks for in others, without preaching, is what I think attracted me to the book to begin with and I think it’s what I am most pleased with in the telling of the film.

Pi: God, I give myself to you. I am your vessel. Whatever comes, I want to know, show me.

POTTER: Stranded in the ocean, Pi senses God’s presence and power in the beauty of nature, stunningly conveyed in 3-D, but like Job in the Old Testament, he also rails at God for his suffering.

Pi: What more do you want?

MAGEE: He finds more and more of what surrounds him stripped away until finally he’s got nothing left to hold onto. It’s almost as though God is putting him through a further trial and saying, “Okay, that was just the beginning. Now you’ve got to confront me.”

Prof. Barbara Mujica, Georgetown University

PROF. BARBARA MUJICA (Georgetown University): Ok, everybody ready for Pi today?

POTTER: At Georgetown University, Professor Barbara Mujica’s freshman seminar on faith, fiction and film is studying the Life of Pi. The story has become a fixture in comparative religion courses for college students across the country.

DANIELLE SMART (Student): Like God, reason is used to conceptualize things that you don’t understand.

PROF. MUJICA: This book really resonates with them. First of all it’s about a young person, just a few years younger than they are. It’s a book that doesn’t preach any religion. I think that the notion of finding the value in different religious traditions really, really resonates with them because they’re not close minded, they’re curious. At the same time we’ve also talked about not simply accepting everything, that Pi doesn’t have a kind of touchy feely kind of faith. And he understands that there are kernels of truth, and the same kernel of truth, in all of these belief systems.

POTTER: From Noah and the ark to the Garden of Eden, Bible stories echo through the Life of Pi. The name of the ship, Tsimtsum, comes from the Jewish mystical teaching that God contracted to make room for creation. And then there’s the tiger, a God-like figure whose very presence keeps Pi alive.

PROF. MUJICA: I see the tiger as a transcendent being because he’s so powerful, because he’s so beautiful, because he’s, he’s so incomprehensible, unfathomable, and has life and death in his power, in his paws.

POTTER: As an adult, Pi meets with a writer, who’s heard that his story “will make you believe in God.”

Writer: I didn’t know Hindus say “amen.”

Pi: Catholic Hindus do.

Writer: Catholic Hindus?

Pi: We get to feel guilty before hundreds of Gods instead of just one.

Writer: But you’re a Hindu first?

Pi: None of us knows God until someone introduces us.

POTTER: So is a film about a man’s search for God aimed at helping audiences find God?

ANG LEE: You know, you cannot tell somebody a story, or show them a movie, for them to believe in God. It wouldn’t be that easy. You have to go through suffer and pain, you have to be in awe. You have to go through tests to believe in God, or not believe in God in some cases.

DAVID MAGEE: To my mind it doesn’t say you have to believe in God, it doesn’t say you shouldn’t believe in God. It says have faith in the stories that take you through your experience with life and if they take you to God, they take you to God, and if they take you in other directions, that’s fine, but listen to the stories.

POTTER: And as Pi himself says in telling his story, “You’ll decide for yourself what to believe.” For Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly, I’m Deborah Potter in New York.


EXCERPT: LIFE OF PI

Read this excerpt from Life of Pi, where Pi meets a pious Muslim baker:

lifeofpi-cover

He was a Sufi, a Muslim mystic. He sought fana, union with God, and his relationship with God was personal and loving. “If you take two steps towards God,” he used to tell me, “God runs to you!”

He was a very plain-featured man, with nothing in his looks or in his dress that made memory cry hark. I’m not surprised I didn’t see him the first time we met. Even when I knew him very well, encounter after encounter, I had difficulty recognizing him. His name was Satish Kumar. These are common names in Tamil Nadu, so the coincidence is not so remarkable. Still, it pleased me that this pious baker, as plain as a shadow and of solid health, and the Community biology teacher and science devotee, the walking mountain on stilts, sadly afflicted with polio in his childhood, carried the same name. Mr. and Mr. Kumar taught me biology and Islam. Mr. and Mr. Kumar led me to study zoology and religious studies at the University of Toronto. Mr. and Mr. Kumar were the prophets of my Indian youth.

We prayed together and we practiced dhikr, the recitation of the ninety-nine revealed names of God. He was a hafiz, one who knows the Qur’an by heart, and he sang it in a slow, simple chant. My Arabic was never very good, but I loved its sound. The guttural eruptions and long flowing vowels rolled just beneath my comprehension like a beautiful brook. I gazed into this brook for long spells of time. It was not wide, just one man’s voice, but it was as deep as the universe.
I described Mr. Kumar’s place as a hovel. Yet no mosque, church, or temple ever felt so sacred to me. I sometimes came out of that bakery feeling heavy with glory. I would climb onto my bicycle and pedal that glory through the air.

One such time I left town and on my way back, at a point where the land was high and I could see the sea to my left and down the road a long ways, I suddenly felt I was in heaven. The spot was in fact no different from when I had passed it not long before, but my way of seeing it had changed. The feeling, a paradoxical mix of pulsing energy and profound peace, was intense and blissful. Whereas before the road, the sea, the trees, the air, the sun all spoke differently to me, not they spoke one language of unity. Tree took account of road, which was aware of air, which was mindful of sea, which shared things with sun. Every element lived in harmonious relation with its neighbor, and all was kith and kin. I knelt a mortal; I rose an immortal. I felt like the centre of a small circle coinciding with the centre of a much larger one. Atman met Allah.

One other time I felt God come close to me. It was in Canada, much later. I was visiting friends in the country. It was winter. I was out alone on a walk on their large property and returning to the house. It was a clear, sunny day after a night of snowfall. All nature was blanketed in white. As I was coming up to the house, I turned my head. There was a wood and in that wood, a small clearing. A breeze, or perhaps it was an animal, had shaken a branch. Fine snow was falling through the air, glittering in the sunlight. In that falling golden dust in that sun-splashed clearing, I saw the Virgin Mary. Why her, I don’t know. My devotion to Mary was secondary. But it was her. Her skin was pale. She was wearing a white dress and a blue cloak; I remember being struck buy their pleats and folds. When I say I saw her, I don’t quite mean it literally, though she did have body and color. I felt I saw her, a vision beyond vision. I stopped and squinted. She looked beautiful and supremely regal. She was smiling at me with loving kindness. After some seconds she left me. My heart beat with fear and joy.
The presence of God is the finest of rewards.

From “Life of Pi” by Yann Martel


Sistine Chapel Anniversary

 

LUCKY SEVERSON, correspondent: Of all the magnificence of the Vatican, there is likely nothing of more artistic consequence than the Pope’s own personal chapel within the Vatican—the Sistine Chapel, more specifically its ceiling. It took Michelangelo Buonarroti 4 long years to paint the famed ceiling and 500 years later it stands for many as the most powerful portrayal of man’s relationship to God. Art historian Bridget Goodbody.

BRIDGET GOODBODY: It wouldn’t be too hard to say that it’s the most important piece of art that’s ever been made.

SEVERSON: Important not only to Catholics, but to Christians of many denominations. In California, at the Menlo Park Presbyterian Church, Pastor John Ortberg has based much of his writing for books and sermons on Michelangelo’s images.

Pastor John Ortberg

PASTOR JOHN ORTBERG: On the ceiling you have this image that is glorious, transcendent, splendid, overwhelming, enormous. I mean, you just stand in there and you’re kind of bowled over by it.

SEVERSON: Michelangelo depicted the Biblical Creation story from the beginning through man’s fall from grace. When it was first unveiled to the public in 1512, the artist Giorgio Vasari said: the whole world could be heard running up to see it, and indeed, it was such as to make everyone astonished. At Harvard Divinity School, for many years the coordinator of the Theological Opportunities Program for Women was Elizabeth Dodson Gray.

ELIZABETH DODSON GRAY: I think it was enormously significant because of the effect it had upon people encouraging them to think of God as male through 500 years. I don’t know how much they thought of God as male before the Sistine Chapel. I do know that in Judaism the Jews were absolutely discouraged, as you know, from doing any graven image, and so they were prohibited from drawing pictures of the Almighty, the Creator.

SEVERSON: Up until then, God was mostly depicted in non-naturalistic imagery, as a spirit, an abstract form, or as a dove hovering in the sky— essentially an impersonal diving presence. Michelangelo’s ceiling changed all that.

GOODBODY: It created an image of God that was human and superhuman and so the idea, if you personify God and you think about God as a white man with long white hair and a long white beard, chances are the picture is where you got that idea.

SEVERSON: It was the Warrior Pope, Julius the Second who commissioned Michelangelo to paint the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, an odd request considering that Michelangelo was a sculptor who had very little experience as a painter.

GOODBODY: And Michelangelo didn’t want to do the ceiling. (laughing) He really wanted to continue to sculpt, and Julius insisted that he do it.

PASTOR ORTBERG: He actually wrote in his journal, “I’m no painter.” And it wasn’t particularly modesty. I don’t know that he was a real modest guy. It was just stating a fact. He was a sculptor, and yet he had been commissioned to do this work. And it came at a pretty substantial personal cost.

SEVERSON: For hundreds of years it was thought that Michelangelo painted the 65 foot high ceiling while lying on his back on scaffolding. But historians now know that wasn’t so.

Bridget Goodbody

GOODBODY: He was standing up. Getting paint in his eyes and (laughing) almost going blind.

SEVERSON: One reason Michelangelo’s ceiling has withstood the trials of time is the method he used to paint it, a process known as fresco where the paint is applied to wet plaster. It took a lot of painful experimenting to make it work. Its central theme is humankind’s need for salvation, which is portrayed in nine scenes from the Book of Genesis.

GOODBODY: You have the drunkenness of Noah, you have the 40 days and 40 nights and representations of the floods and Adam and Eve being expelled from the Garden. Then there’s the creation of Adam and the creation of Eve and the creation of the Earth and the sun and the moon. That last image you find yourself in front of the altar piece, which is the Last Judgment and which very famously has those who are going to heaven on one side and those who are not on the other.

SEVERSON: The most iconic image of Michelangelo’s fresco work is the scene where God appears to be reaching down to Adam, their fingers almost touching.

PASTOR ORTBERG: His eyes are open and it appears that he is alive, but some folks have said what’s taking place in that moment is not so much the impartation of biological life as that which makes us most human, or what the Bible talks about as being “created in the image of God,” and so, to have spirit, to be a soul, to be able to be connected with God, to be a moral agent. All of that’s what is happening at that moment.

SEVERSON: Art historian Goodbody says she paid an extra admission fee so she could spend two hours in the Sistine chapel studying the ceiling all by herself.

GOODBODY: It’s such a great painting because you have sort of God very energetic and the wind pushing his hair back and sailing through the… he’s very determined. You know, he’s just created the universe, after all. Now he’s gonna, you know, humans are gonna rise up, he’s gonna make man in his own image.

SEVERSON: This is the part where Elizabeth Dodson Gray, the feminist theologian, and author of three books, takes exception.

Elizabeth Dodson GrayELIZABETH DODSON GRAY: It was a great picture, bad theology, very bad theology. “God created man in His own image.” Okay? And if we say that a picture’s worth a thousand words, and truly the picture in the Sistine Chapel is probably worth a thousand words, if you understand the sociology of knowledge as we now do, what really makes a difference was the male of the species created God in his own image. So actually the energy of creation went up, rather than down.

SEVERSON: What do you mean when you write about the Narcissus effect with Michelangelo’s ceiling?

DODSON GRAY: Well if you look at the Caravaggio picture, when Narcissus looks in the water and only sees his face. And the sentence I wrote is that the male of the species saw only himself when he looked in the cosmic pool of ultimate mystery.

SEVERSON: More traditional Christian views have not represented God in the female form, but in Pastor Ortberg’s view, women have been an important and positive part of God’s message.

PASTOR ORTBERG: Oh I think it’s unquestionably a point worth noting. Sometimes in the scripture there are feminine analogies used. Jesus says at one point, “You know how often I would have gathered you like a mother hen gathers her chicks but you would not let me.” So I think one of the hard things is, because in the Bible we talk about God as Father, people can think about God as masculine the way that a human being is masculine.

SEVERSON: Goodbody, now the curator of Artintelligence.com, sees a modern resonance for Michelangelo’s imagery.

GOODBODY: I’ve been spending a lot of time thinking about it and as I go through the scientific imagery, I seem to find Michelangelo’s creation of Adam picture frequently displayed. You know, this sort of God giving energy to a test tube baby or a DNA molecule. It’s pretty tricky when you start to get into this conversation about creation. And who creates? Was it God that’s creating it? Or are we at a point in history and in time when we’re creating life?

SEVERSON: Pastor Ortberg believes the significance of Michelangelo’s masterpiece is the message it imparts.

PASTOR ORTBERG: I think part of what gave art so much power for Michelangelo was not just the need to shock folks that might become complacent, but the vision of a transcendent order and the idea that we live in a world that has meaning and has moral beauty, and that human life is about something, and wanting to point people to something beyond themselves, wanting to point people to that hope.

SEVERSON: After nearly 500 years, the Sistine Chapel’s ceiling was getting dimmer with age, but it has since undergone a complete restoration, preparing it for the 21st century and more generations to come.

For Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly, I’m Lucky Severson.

Jewish Community Food Stamp Challenge

 

RABBI LENNY GORDON (Congregation Mishkan Tefila): I am doing the Food Stamp Challenge, and many of my colleagues are doing it during this week before Thanksgiving. And I am sure that this will inform our teaching to our communities, our community Thanksgiving events, and our Thanksgiving meals.

Starting off my own personal Food Stamp Challenge with a day with our teenagers is actually very important for me. We’re going to do a little menu planning and shopping-trip planning before we go to sort of think about what we are going to be looking for…and then to go out there and price it and try as we’re going through, creating what essentially will be for me my week’s food supply.

Coming off the book and film “The Hunger Games,” the kids came up with this idea that the theme for the year is Hunger is No Game.

post01-food-stamp-challengeTEENS IN SUPERMARKET: $1.84; $1.50 for these. So we’re saving some money.

RABBI GORDON: The point is to always hold in mind that we’re trying to replicate an experience that is not a game. For a slice of people who have to choose between rent, medication, food, that you might sometimes have this as your total food budget.

TEENS AND SUPERVISOR IN SUPERMARKET: So we can put these on last, and then if we have enough for the extra second one, we will. OK.

RABBI GORDON: When you go to a supermarket, you can’t just buy whatever you want.

CASHIER AT CHECKOUT: $28.34 is your total.

RABBI GORDON: During the days of the Food Stamp Challenge, one of the things that–one of the repeated experiences is leaving a meal and not being sated. We’re gonna have a little meal together at the end of our day today, just so that we sit down together and say, “OK, this is what a meal might look like for a family to sit down together, and this is what they’d be eating.”

Rabbi Lenny GordonFor the people doing this, it’s not a hardship, it’s not a crisis. It’s something we’re doing to deepen our understanding about America. You know, there’s a story that I was told that, you know, sort of was transformative for me about a teacher in an elementary school looking at a girl who was falling asleep in class. And he said to her, “What’s wrong? Didn’t you have breakfast this morning?” And she said, “No, it wasn’t my turn.” And it was like, yeah, you know, there are people who are making decisions with multiple kids about who can have a breakfast before they go off to school. That’s what’s at stake.

Our synagogue is involved in collecting cereals and canned soups that are given as part of a food pantry. The teens who are doing the gathering of materials now, during the days and weeks ahead this year are becoming the ones who do the deliveries.

The tradition of the prophets was a tradition that said whatever you are doing is not really working as long as there are people who are hungry, who are without clothing, who are without shelter. When we talk about food insecurity, when we talk about the fact that there are people who are not sure where there next meal comes from, that’s where our vision needs to be.

The Food Stamp Challenge will culminate for me on Shabbat. And then, as the Sabbath ends, an opportunity to say, “OK, and now I can return to the normal routines of life,” but a little transformed by understanding that there are others for whom going back to normal meals is not an option.

Rabbi Lenny Gordon Extended Interview

“The tradition of the prophets said whatever you are doing is not really working as long as there are people who are hungry, who are without clothing, who are without shelter. That’s how you judge a society.” Watch more of our interview with Rabbi Lenny Gordon, senior rabbi at Congregation Mishkan Tefila in Chestnut Hill, Massachusetts, about food insecurity in the United States.

 

A Conversation with Former Archbishop of Canterbury George Carey

On Thursday November 8, 2012, the annual Common Ground Awards were presented at the Carnegie Institution for Science honoring accomplishments in conflict resolution, negotiation, community building and peace building. The Interfaith Award was presented to former Archbishop of Canterbury George Carey, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf of the Cordoba Initiative, and Rabbi David Rosen of the American Jewish Committee. Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly managing editor Kim Lawton spoke with Carey, who was Archbishop of Canterbury from 1991 to 2002, about global interfaith relations, divisions within the worldwide Anglican Communion, his hopes for the second Obama term, and his thoughts about the newly selected Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby.

 

Election 2012: Religion and the Results

 

BOB ABERNETHY, host: Like many others in the nation, faith groups are assessing the impact of this week’s election. According to exit polls, President Obama won a slight majority of Catholic voters overall, thanks largely to strong support from Latino Catholics. Mitt Romney won the white Catholic vote by an almost 20-point margin. Almost 80 percent of evangelicals who voted voted for Romney. Black Protestants went overwhelmingly for Obama, as did the vast majority of Jews. But the biggest share of Obama’s faith coalition was voters who say they aren’t affiliated with any religion.

Steve Schneck was co-chair of Catholics for Obama. He says while issues like abortion, religious liberty, and gay marriage were important, in the end it was the economy that tipped the scale for the president.

STEVE SCHNECK: All of these religious issues, while they are important to religious voters, I think, even among religious voters they ranked these issues a little further down on the spectrum.

ABERNETHY: Ralph Reed of the Faith and Freedom Coalition admitted that a massive mobilization among religious conservatives wasn’t enough to offset the number of women, young people, and minorities who voted Democratic.

Ralph Reed speaking at the National Press ClubRALPH REED: I think we need to do a better job of not looking like, you know, your daddy’s religious right. You know, we have to be as a movement younger. We have to be more diverse ethnically.

ABERNETHY: Voters also decided several key ballot initiatives. For the first time ever, measures to approve same-sex marriage passed by referendum in Maine, Maryland, and Washington State. And voters in Minnesota rejected a proposed constitutional ban on gay marriage. In Massachusetts, a measure to legalize physician-assisted suicide was narrowly defeated. In California, voters decided not to abolish the death penalty.

With all the acrimony around the election, many religious leaders called for a new spirit of civility. More than 700 churches held special Election Day Communion services. Organizers said they wanted to refocus allegiance to God and work for justice beyond the ballot box.

Now, more on this week’s presidential election: I’m joined by Kim Lawton, managing editor of this program; Kevin Eckstrom, editor of Religion News Service; and Rachel Zoll, national religion writer for the Associated Press, who’s with us from New York. Kim, underneath all the data do you see a message?

KIM LAWTON: Well, there’s definitely a message for, I think, the Republican Party and the religious right—that those old faith-based coalitions that won elections aren’t winning those elections any more. I mean, you had—evangelicals did an unprecedented mobilization. They came out to the polls, and they voted more for Republicans than they have in previous elections even. You had, when you break out by race, almost 60 percent of white Catholics going for Romney and still those two together weren’t enough to tip the election, and that’s different than previous elections, and believe me that’s making many of the people inside the religious right, but also inside the Republican Party, taking notice.

Rachel Zoll

ABERNETHY: Rachel in New York: did you see any pattern or message in all that data?

RACHEL ZOLL: I think one of the messages is a growing acceptance for Mormons by the Christian conservatives. The—we saw at the beginning of this election, people thought that Mitt Romney’s faith, his Mormonism, was going to keep evangelicals from the polls. Now we don’t have final numbers on the size of the electorate, but it’s clear that he won— Governor Romney won the overwhelming percentage of white evangelical votes. They did vote for him despite theological differences.

ABERNETHY: And how do you interpret that?

ZOLL: That Mormons have, in a growing way—are gaining acceptance in the United States.

ABERNETHY: Kevin, what did you see?

KEVIN ECKSTROM: I think one of the big take-aways, not just on religion, but just generally is the growth of the Hispanics. I think what, 71 percent of Hispanics voted for President Obama, and that’s not just a message for the Republicans or the Democrats, but I think also for evangelicals that the coalition that they’ve always relied on, primarily white, primarily older, primarily male, isn’t going to cut it anymore. And so I think you’re going to see, perhaps, a bit more evangelical activism on immigration, which they’ve already been doing, but I think this election will really kind of ramp that up.

LAWTON: And it’s an interesting question.

ABERNETHY: And they’re talking about that coming up soon.

Kim Lawton

LAWTON: Exactly, exactly but that’s the question. Religious right leaders are saying, okay, we recognize we need to open up a little bit. The Republican Party recognizes they need to reach out. But how do you do that? Do you need to change the message? And I think that’s one question that people are taking away different answers on. Is the answer to be less extreme, or less dogmatic on issues like abortion and gay marriage? Will that appeal to more people? Now, Latinos tend to be more conservative on social issues, but they don’t tend to vote, by and large, on the social issues, so how exactly do you broaden that tent?

ABERNETHY: Rachel, you’ve had things to say about the difference between changing the language of something that you want to talk about and changing the position. Fill us in on that.

ZOLL: Well, that’s one of the fears I think among a lot of Christian conservatives, religious conservatives in the Republican Party—that the lesson that the party will take away from this is that they should not be speaking about social issues and that this emphasis on social issues is actually something that’s going to hurt them. Now the counter-argument that a lot of the different groups are making, including the anti-abortion groups, is that we had—they had a moderate nominee, Mitt Romney, for the job who did not talk enough about social issues, and that is one of the arguments I’m hearing.

ECKSTROM: But if you look, though, at social issues, if you rope in homosexuality with that, along with abortion that Rachel mentioned, I mean, we had a clear win for gay rights across the board almost in this election. So I think, yeah, you can talk more about abortion or homosexuality, but I think the numbers and the trends, at least on the gay question, maybe abortion’s a little different, but on the gay question I think what we saw this time is that it doesn’t have the same salience and the same power or even the same level of acceptance that many religious conservatives might think.

ABERNETHY: What does that say to you—that the country is becoming much more tolerant?

Kevin EckstromECKSTROM: Yes, I think so. And I think, you know, we used to talk about the Will-and-Grace Effect back in the ‘90s, you know, where people learned about, you know, gay people, but now you have shows where you have two gay dads, and you’ve got a transgender character on “Glee.” The society is moving much faster than politics or even the religious institutions on this question.

ABERNETHY: Rachel, I wanted to ask you where do the election returns leave the relationship between the Catholic bishops and the president of the United States?

ZOLL: That’s the question. Things got very bitter this year between the bishops and President Obama when he enacted the birth control mandate that was part of the health care—his health care reform. He and Cardinal Dolan, who is the president of the U.S. bishops conference, once actually had a very friendly relationship. Instead, they now—you hear bishops very vehemently condemning President Obama throughout the election for his policies, saying he’s dangerous for the country and dangerous for religious freedom itself. It’s not at all clear how they’re going to work together going forward. One of the other problems that the bishops have is that when they went to Republicans who appeared to be more sympathetic and open to their situation, or their argument on the religious liberty question, ultimately did not do anything for them and dropped the issue.

LAWTON: And there’s some interesting, also, I think—tensions within the laity, the Catholic community, that we saw come out in this election. I mean, we saw outside Catholic players on both sides. The bishops were very active especially highlighting issues of religious freedom, abortion, marriage, traditional marriage. You also saw the “Nuns on the Bus” and people from the more progressive end in the Catholic Church raising issues about economic justice and budget concerns, and there were a lot of divisions, and frankly I saw a lot of vitriol in the Catholic laity, on the blogs and everything, between those two wings which—those differences have always been there, differences of emphasis maybe within the Church, but some of that vitriol really seemed to bubble up in this election.

ABERNETHY: So, the Joe Biden wing and the—

LAWTON: The Joe Biden Catholics and Paul Ryan Catholics, and they didn’t agree on a whole lot this time around.

ECKSTROM: But I think at the end of the day, Cardinal Dolan who heads the bishops conference is, in a lot, a lot of ways, in the same position as Speaker Boehner in the House, and they’re going to have to work with this president whether they like it or not. They tried maybe to defeat him. It didn’t work. But I think Cardinal Dolan at his heart is a pragmatist and wants to get something done, and the question is how they’re going to work together. I think they’ll be forced to work together.

ABERNETHY: Everyone talks about the message being, okay, you guys, go back to Washington, make some compromises, get something done. It’s not clear exactly what’s to be done although everyone agrees immigration is one of the things that’s very high. But a lot of people see this fiscal cliff coming, the need for Congress and the president to get together to prevent big, big cuts in spending and big, big increases in taxes. So how can the religious communities help in that?

LAWTON: Well, it’s interesting because religious people have been and will continue to be involved sort of in both ends of that debate, and for each side it’s a moral issue. So, you have Catholics, including the Catholic bishops, saying we need to help the poor. Budget cuts can hurt the poor and that, that’s a matter of belief, religious belief, and conscience for them. You have religious conservatives using moral language to talk about the debt, and it’s immoral to leave a debt to our children, and they’re pretty strong on that, and the press releases that I’ve been getting after the election certainly didn’t mention compromise as a religious value. They—all sides talked about staying strong on their particular positions.

ZOLL: One of the interesting things that this brings up is that this is an area where the bishops, the Catholic bishops, can work closely with the Obama administration, and I suspect that the Obama administration would very much welcome it. I don’t think anyone benefits, and they don’t feel that anyone benefits from the tensions between them, and the bishops have obviously not only a theology but an incredible track record in terms of supporting poor, the poor people in terms of charities, and they are very concerned about these social issues, and next week when they meet they will also be discussing the economy and poverty.

ABERNETHY: Our time is up, I’m sorry to say. Rachel Zoll in New York, thank you very much. Kim Lawton here, Kevin Eckstrom here in Washington, thanks to all of you.

ALL: Thank you.