Kashmir Dispute

 

FRED DE SAM LAZARO, correspondent: Kashmir has long been known for its peaceful vistas but for the 13 million inhabitants this mountainous region has been anything but peaceful. It is one of the world’s most militarized places. India alone has an estimated 600,000 troops in the part it controls, four times the number of American soldiers who were in Iraq at the height of that war. Although it has a two-thirds Muslim majority, Kashmir as a whole is quite diverse, the southern region mostly Hindu, the northeast Buddhist. But for six decades this province with a land mass the size of Idaho has been bitterly fought over by India and Pakistan.

It all dates back to 1947, when the departing British decided to partition the newly independent India. Muslim majority areas were to form the new republic of Pakistan. But Kashmir had a Hindu ruler, and he opted under pressure to join India. That set off the first of three major wars between India and Pakistan, ending in a ceasefire with India controlling about two-thirds of Kashmir, Pakistan most of the rest. The so-called “line of control” that divided Kashmir has served as an international border for 65 years, but Kashmir has festered as a sore point between the Islamic republic of Pakistan and mostly Hindu India.

Although the conflict has long been cast in religious terms, Joseph Schwartzberg, a leading scholar on Kashmir, says it’s more complicated than that. And within Kashmir, he says, there’s a long tradition of tolerance.

Professor Joseph Schwartzberg, University of MinnesotaPROFESSOR JOSEPH SCHWARTZBERG: The Hindus frequently attended religious ceremonies that were held by Muslims, and the converse was also true. In terms of actual day to day religious practices it was a fairly eclectic area, and the type of strident militaristic Islam that we think of when we think of, say, the Middle East—that was not present in Kashmir at all.

DE SAM LAZARO: That began to change in the 1980s in Indian-held Kashmir with more religious tension and extremism. Schwartzberg blames corruption, non-functioning local government, and meddling from India’s capital Delhi in local elections.

SCHWARTZBERG: India is a pretty good functioning democracy in most parts of the country, but with respect to Kashmir it was exceptional. They felt that they couldn’t afford to lose elections. They managed to rig election after election, and the people simply got fed up. In 1987—and it was a pretty corrupt administration, so the people just had it— they initiated a series of demonstrations which were put down with a heavy hand, and in 1989 it really got out of hand, and the Indian government moved in in force.

DE SAM LAZARO: The clampdown triggered a militant separatist insurgency—or vice versa, depending on who is telling the story. India has blamed Pakistan, especially its intelligence service, and Islamist extremist groups. Pakistan says it offers only moral support for the insurgents. Groups like Human Rights Watch blame militant groups, but they also finger Indian security forces for widespread abuses under the guise of rooting out militants. India insists that most are infiltrators from Pakistan-held regions and beyond. Tens of thousands of civilians have died or gone missing. Kashmir’s grand mufti, the top religious leader recognized by India’s government, also blames both sides for excesses, and his numbers are much higher.

Bashir Uddin Ahmad, Grand MuftiBASHIR UDDIN AHMAD (Grand Mufti): Since 1989, when the situation became more critical, hundreds of thousands of people are missing and hundreds of thousands more have been killed. We have no knowledge of where they are. The killing continues unabated, and the situation is still simmering.

DE SAM LAZARO: In recent years, the Kashmir dispute has taken on a new dimension as India has announced plans to build several dams, seeking hydro-electric power for its fast-growing economy. But Kashmir’s rivers also irrigate the breadbaskets of both India and Pakistan. So far there have been no problems sharing the waters under an internationally brokered treaty in 1960. However, Pakistan says the Indian dams could affect seasonal water flows to its farmland.

KAMAL MAJIDULLA (Pakistan Presidential Advisor): It’s devastating, because if the waters are not available to me in the quantities that I need them at the time that I need them, then I’m looking at a very low productivity of my agricultural sector.

DE SAM LAZARO: Pakistan has taken its protest to arbitration provided for under the Indus water treaty. India insists it is in full compliance. However, the fact that India, being upstream, could in theory manipulate flows could be politically toxic, particularly after the severe floods Pakistan has endured in recent years.

Hafiz Saeed is a man the US government has branded a terrorist and for whose capture it has offered a $10 million bounty. Saeed has blamed India for worsening the flooding. Pakistani presidential advisor Kamal Majidulla says such rhetoric resonates among farmers who are hurting.

Kamal Majidulla, Pakistan Presidential AdvisorMAJIDULLA: The farming community, which otherwise could look after their children, are unable to do, so the children have been going off and staying in madrassas instead of going to the local school system, because the madrassas feed them. I’m not saying all madrassas are bad. They do perform a social function, and some of them perform a very good social function, but a fair number of them are not. And this is where the cannon fodder comes from. So there is a direct linkage between water availability, low agricultural productivity, and the rise of terrorism.

DE SAM LAZARO: Officials in India’s capital Delhi say the Pakistani fears of water treaty violations are overblown. Ashok Jaitly, a scholar at a Delhi-based think tank, says the bigger threat is poor conservation and water mismanagement on both sides.

ASHOK JAITLY (Energy Resource Institute): If you had a cooperation based on good scientific river basin management of the Indus basin, and that’s where the Indus water treaty does not provide for it, it only provides for sharing of water. It does not provide for scientific integrated river basin management. If you could have that, then I think a lot, I won’t say all the problems would be solved, but a lot of the problems between India and Pakistan would be resolved, or could be resolved.

DE SAM LAZARO: Back in Kashmir, long squeezed as its two nuclear armed neighbors fight over it, Mufti Bashar Uddin says growing numbers want no part of either.

MUFTI UDDIN: As a religious leader, I would tell the people that if the option of independence is offered, that would be the best bet for Kashmir.

DE SAM LAZARO: That seems highly unlikely—both India and Pakistan reject the idea. So, to most analysts, does any quick resolution of the Kashmir stalemate. In recent months, there’s been a thaw in relations between India and Pakistan, with proposals to vastly increase the amount of trade across the border. Coincidence or not, Kashmir has enjoyed one of its quietest periods in years. The natural beauty is once again luring tourists. In 2011, more than one million visitors came here, most of them Indian. It remains to be seen whether and how much more tourism and commerce can repair 65 years of suspicion and upheaval.

For Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly, this is Fred de Sam Lazaro.

African-American Spirituals

 

Morehouse Glee Club: “Lazarus rise up, the Lord is calling you. Oh, come forth, Larazus, the Lord is calling you.”

BOB FAW, correspondent: The voices of the Morehouse College Glee Club blend perfectly. The timing, the intonation are masterful.

Morehouse Glee Club: “Jesus is calling you. No need to be afraid.”

FAW: But listen to the lyrics, and you’ll find there is more here than just music.

Morehouse Glee Club: “When you hear me shouting, I am building me a home.”

FAW: Spirituals like this one, performed at a Washington, DC library.

Uzee Brown, Jr.Morehouse Glee Club: “And my soul got to have, Lord, somewhere to stay.”

FAW: Or spirituals with repeated rhythms of the culture.

Boyd Baptist Church Choir: “I heard a voice, I couldn’t stay away. I heard….”

FAW: This one performed by the Boyd Baptist Church Choir in Rock Hill, South Carolina. These spirituals are melodies and words from a dark chapter of America’s past.

UZEE BROWN, JR: What it was part of what I call the survival tools for the African slave. There were many cultures that were virtually wiped out as a result of similar kinds of oppression. But what happens here is that the spiritual is a part of that survival, because they found their way of singing through many of their problems. They found their way of communicating.

FAW: Slaves in the plantation South drew on native rhythms and their African heritage. For them, spirituals were religious folks songs, often rooted in biblical stories, woven together, sung, and passed along from one slave generation to another.

David Morrow, Director, Morehouse Glee ClubDAVID MORROW (Director, Morehouse Glee Club): And they pulled out stories that worked: Daniel in the lion’s den, you know. The story of Moses, “Let my people go,” you know. All of those things were things that worked out in terms of what they were going through, how they were coping with it.

FAW: Listen, for example, to the spiritual “Ain’t A That Good News,” which Dr. Brown sings with his accompanist, Ella Lewis.

BROWN: “I got news to tell you, I got good news.”

FAW: It’s a spiritual which makes the present bearable.

BROWN: “I got a crown up in that kingdom, ain’t a that good news.”

BROWN: A spiritual that says beyond this world there is victory. I’m going to get my crown. I’m going to be regal.

MORROW: “Nobody Knows the Trouble I’ve Seen,” or “Sometimes I Feel like a Motherless Child,” but then there was always that message of hope in them that would allow you okay, this is what my circumstance is, but this is what I can look forward to as well.

FAW: Spirituals, which arose at plantations like this one in Roswell, Georgia, were really a double-edged sword. While the melodies might suggest to masters that slaves were happy with their lot in life, if you listen closely you will find the message of some spirituals was clearly defiant, indeed rebellious.

MORROW: The stereotype was that as long as the slaves were singing and dancing, they were happy, and we said we’re good. Well, we can also communicate, you know, “Steal away, steal away to Jesus, steal away home, I ain’t got long to stay here.” There is a lot of message in there, of course, about going to heaven, but also I’m telling you that steal away home meaning I’m going to escape. I’m letting you know it’s going to be soon. You know, we couldn’t very well flat out say it, but we could certainly sing those songs.

BROWN: “Keep your lamps trimmed and burning, the time is drawing nigh.”

FAW: This spiritual is both biblical and subversive.

BROWN: It speaks of lamps trimmed and burning, as in the reference to Matthew 25, but in the secondary meaning it is we are going to prepare to escape, and you must be ready.

“The time is drawing nigh.”

These people are communicating from one plantation to the other right under our noses, and in fact organizing in such a way that insurrections were had, and the slave master did not know. These people were not by any means dumb and unintelligent folk who did not understand how to communicate in an effective way through this vehicle since so many others were denied to them.

Morehouse Glee Club: “You better run.”

FAW: Spirituals helped to spread the Gospel.

Morehouse Glee Club: “…walking to Jerusalem just like John.”

FAW: Years later, they were adapted into the freedom songs of the civil rights movement.

Morehouse Glee Club: “If I got my ticket then I ride.”

MORROW (speaking at glee club rehearsal): Not bad, not bad at all. It is just a little brighty in all sections.

FAW: And today colleges and churches nationwide still perform them.

DARIAN CLOUNTS (Glee Club Member): “Lord, let me ride.”

FAW: For soloist Darian Clounts, singing spirituals does more than just rekindle the past.

CLOUNTS: What that music is is the music of my ancestors, my forefathers, everything, so that when I feel it, when I sing it, I do feel something deep down within.

Boyd Baptist Church Choir: “Oh, Lord, all day, all night, Lord.”

FAW: In Rock Hill, South Carolina, choir member Connie Hall knows what he means.

CONNIE HALL: It connects me with the older generation, because this song I used to hear my grandmother singing, and my mama singing, and it all comes back.

Morehouse Glee Club: “For to hear the trumpets sound…”

FAW: Spirituals live on today not just because they’re a link to the past, but because teachers like David Morrow feel a profound obligation.

MORROW: One of the reasons I think it’s important is because every time I teach it it becomes something that they, our students, attach themselves to and connect with.

FAW: They live on, too, because even though slavery has been abolished and times have changed, that message of hope, the promise of deliverance, still resonates.

BROWN: “Oh, I am a going to lay down of this world and shoulder up from my cross. I am going to take it home to my Jesus, ain’t a that good news. Good news. Shoulder up my cross and take it home to my Jesus. My burdens i will take it to the Lord and leave them there.” Ain’t that good news?

FAW: African-American spirituals alive and well, and from this country’s darkest past something glorious.

Morehouse Glee Club: “Lord, let me ride.”

FAW: For Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly this is Bob Faw in Washington, DC.

Morehouse Glee Club: “If I have my ticket, Lord, can i ride? Ride away to heaven, ride away to heaven, ride away to heaven in the morning. Ride.”

Faith Groups and Immigration

 

BOB ABERNETHY, host: Religious groups held rallies and a 48-hour prayer vigil in front the Supreme Court this week as the justices heard oral arguments over Arizona’s controversial immigration law. At issue in the case is whether the state law infringes on the federal government’s authority to establish and enforce immigration policy. But several faith groups argue the law violates the dignity of immigrants and could result in racial profiling.

For more on this I am joined by Kim Lawton, managing editor of this program, and Patricia Zapor, a staff writer with Catholic News Service who’s been covering the faith community and immigration. Pat, it’s nice to have you back here again.

PATRICIA ZAPOR (Staff Writer, Catholic News Service): Thank you, it’s good to be back.

ABERNETHY: The Catholic bishops and many other religious leaders want a whole new kind of approach to immigration. What specifically, what exactly do they want?

Patricia Zapor, Catholic News ServiceZAPOR: Well, that could take the whole program to explain. They want a comprehensive approach, something that gives people who are already here illegally the chance to legalize their status so that they can pull their families together, reunite torn-apart families, work legally, be able to go home to their home countries and visit their families there. They want a path for jobs. There’s a whole assortment of things.

ABERNETHY: Any likelihood that they might get those things any time soon?

ZAPOR: I think that’s probably very unlikely in an election year, although it might make for some good political demanding during this season.

KIM LAWTON (Managing Editor, Religion & Ethics Newsweekly): One of the arguments this particular week, as the case was at the court, from the religious community was that some of the local laws could hinder their ministry. What were they talking about?

ZAPOR: Well, this came up most conspicuously in 2006 in a version of legislation that passed the House included a provision that would make it illegal for anybody to help people who are in the country illegally. Cardinal Mahony of Los Angeles, then the archbishop, at that time told his priests that if this bill passes I am not going to expect you to follow through with that, to follow that law. It’s seen as an imposition on the rights of people of faith to take care of others.

ABERNETHY: People talk about the rights of other people, too, and what do the religious leaders say to those who say look, we’ve got laws, and laws need to be enforced and obeyed?

ZAPOR: Well, I think the religious leaders agree that states, government have a right to enforce their borders, but their arguments against the current immigration situation relate to the civil rights era, when Dr. Martin Luther King and bishops and priests and rabbis were at the forefront of arguments that the laws requiring segregation were inhumane, and they were unjust laws, that they had a right and an obligation to fight against those laws.

LAWTON: What are some of the theological and moral arguments that these religious leaders, really across a pretty broad spectrum, are making on this?

ZAPOR: Well, and they go back to the Old Testament and into the New Testament to calls to take care of the stranger, to take care of those people who have no rights in a society. They are throughout scriptures. That’s one of the main things that they go to.

ABERNETHY: There was some new data that came out this past week about the number of immigrants from Mexico going down for the first time in a long time. Does that change things at all?

ZAPOR: Not really, because there are a lot of people who are in the country illegally, to begin with, and that hasn’t particularly—doesn’t reflect a slowing of migration from Central America, from South America. Just because the situation in Mexico is changing doesn’t really change the whole picture all that much.

ABERNETHY: Situation changing? What? Better job opportunities?

ZAPOR: In Mexico, yes. Mexico’s economy has improved, there’s a lower birthrate, an assortment of factors involved in that.

ABERNETHY: Pat Zapor of Catholic News Service, many thanks.

ZAPOR: Thank you.

Conversations Before Dying

 

BOB FAW, correspondent: If you’d like to know what a hospice chaplain does, watch Kerry Egan in New Bedford, Massachusetts as she visits seventy-one-year-old Jim Burgo, who didn’t want his face shown and who is dying from liver disease.

JIM BURGO: I don’t want to suffer. I know I am going to die, but I don’t want to suffer.

FAW: At life’s end, when Burgo is anguished and needs to talk about dying, the hospice chaplain listens and comforts.

BURGO: There are a lot of things about Vietnam that I am not proud of either.

KERRY EGAN: And I think God forgives those things.

BURGO: I hope so. I really hope so.

FAW: If one aspect of her healing ministry can be somber, her visit to the Fall River home of ninety-seven-year-old Mary Labrie shows another.

Singing: “When we all see Jesus, we’ll sing and shout the victory.”

FAW: Here the mood is upbeat, because Mary, unlike Jim Burgo, faces death with absolutely no fear—indeed, looks forward to being in heaven and being reunited with her late husband of 75 years.

MARY LABRIE: Oh yeah, I’ll see them again. We will all be together one day.

EFAN: What will be like, being together again?

LABRIE: Oh, that will be wonderful.

FAW: Kerry Egan counsels people of all different faiths, and not all of her patients are religious. But the common thread in her work, she says, is helping people give meaning to their lives.

EGAN: How do you make sense of all of this that is going on in your life? For every person that I go in to see, my goal is the same, which is to find out what their goal is, to help them meet it.

FAW: A chaplain for thirteen years, Kerry Egan says that what is crucial is learning how to listen.

EGAN: I hear terrible stories sometimes—terrible stories, and the most compassionate thing you can do is not turn away. Oftentimes for you to go in and say, “It’s okay. It’s okay,” when they full well know it is not okay, it shuts them up. So now they can’t say, “I’m frightened. I’m angry. I’m confused,” because now they need to act like everything is okay.

Kerry EganFAW: Listening is the most important thing?

EGAN: Yes. Deeply listening to what it is they’re saying.

FAW: Kerry says something was brewing with Jim Burgo. Finally, she understood. His father had taken him away from his mother when he was very young, and Burgo was afraid it was going to happen again.

EGAN: So are are you afraid that you will die and you’ll go to heaven?

BURGO: I am not afraid of going to heaven.

EGAN: I know, but that your mother and father will be there, and your father will take your mother away again?

BURGO: That is very, very possible in my mind, yeah.

EGAN: Well, there’s no point in sugarcoating it, right? That’s not helpful. If someone is dying, and they’re sick, they know it.

(reading from Bible): “…teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always…”

LABRIE: Oh, that is my favorite verse.

EGAN: I know it is.

Some people really come to the end, and they feel good. You know, they’ve done a lifetime of work and of thinking about this and they just want someone to be there with them, to sort of enforce those strengths they already have.

FAW: But others struggle, and Kerry Egan tries to see them come to terms with what ultimately matters.

EGAN: For some people there’s an incredible relief to have someone come in and say, “What did this all mean? What did my life mean? What does my death mean? Why am I sick? Is there a God? Is there a God who knows I’m sick? Is there a God who cares that I am sick?”

FAW: For a while, what Kerry couldn’t understand was why her patients talk to a chaplain so much about their families.

EGAN: It took me a long time to realize that is how people are talking about God. Again, they might not use the term “God,” but that’s how they talk about ultimate meaning. They’re trying to get at love. They’re trying to get at what God is. Jim is a great example of that. He was talking about his mother, and he was talking about love. What does the love of God look like? Am I going to get to see my mother again? Is the love my father showed me or didn’t show me, is that what God is like?

FAW: Raised Catholic, now an Episcopalian, Kerry Egan isn’t always successful. One patient actually threw a bedpan at her. But Jim Burgo’s wife, Elaine, says that every time hospice chaplain Egan visits, Jim isn’t the only one who benefits.

ELAINE BURGO: She helps me by helping him. If I want to talk, I know she is there, and she’s just an excellent, excellent listener. We don’t only discuss the Holy Spirit and God. I know she is there just knowing he is going to die. If I want to discuss anything, she is available.

FAW: Just a few months ago, Mary was near death. Kerry and the hospice team brought her back to good health, and it was only with Kerry, says Mary’s daughter, Judy, that Mary was able to reveal how she worried about the grief her death would bring her children.

JUDY BIDDLE: It gave me that peace, knowing that Mom is not in denial, that she was just worried about us. She was worried about us children. That was really precious. You know, it’s so good to have someone from outside the family that she can share with, so that she might say things to Kerry that she might not feel comfortable sharing with me as a daughter.

FAW: Family members, of course, are not the only ones who appreciate Kerry.

JIM BURGO (to Kerry Egan): You make people better. You explain God to me. You’ve given me a whole bunch.

FAW: You read the Bible sometimes.

MARY LABRIE: I read it every day.

FAW: Every day.

LABRIE: And there is some good information there to keep you going if you are concerned about things.

FAW: And seeing Kerry, does that help you keep going too?

LABRIE: Oh, yes.

FAW: Kerry meets every day with members of the hospice team. This day she talks with nurse Patty Martin about Mary’s progress.

PATTY MARTIN (to Chaplain Egan): She’s walking around. She is eating better. She is gaining weight.

FAW: Mary is doing so well soon she will have to be taken off hospice care. That worries Kerry because for patients it’s hard to lose the care they’ve come to depend upon. It’s just another issue a hospice chaplain confronts. What helps her cope and decompress, says Egan, is a happy home life: two children, a supportive husband, two dogs. She prays, meditates, hikes, and dances. It helps, too, she concedes, to maintain a certain distance from her patients.

EGAN: I have to remember that it’s not about me, right? It’s not personal. I’m a passing person in their life. You know, I’m not his wife, I’m not his daughter, I’m not his mother. Not even his best friend. You know, I’m his chaplain, and that’s a very different role.

FAW: And when that distancing isn’t enough, Kerry says, she relies on her faith.

EGAN: That gives me a lot of strength to do this. To be able to say that this is not the end and that life is hard, and really hard things happen but that we can be with each other. We can help each other through it, and that is how God functions in this world.

FAW: With Jim Burgo or with Mary, Kerry Egan says she’s learned that while there are miracles, her role is not to be a miracle worker.

EGAN: It really is between the patient and God, right? And that the patient and God are going to do the work. It’s not like I have some magical presence in there. Not at all.

FAW: And what does Kerry get out of it?

EGAN: I get enormous joy. People know so much more than they think they know when they’re allowed to explore it themselves, and God is so much more present than anybody usually gives God credit for. And I get to see that. I get to know that.

FAW: Caring for them when their bodies are failing and their spiritual needs are crying out, too.

EGAN (to Jim Burgo): You’re such a good man.

BURGO: I am not, but someday…

FAW: For Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly this is Bob Faw in New Bedford, Massachusetts.

ABERNETHY: We are sorry to add that shortly after that interview Jim Burgo died.

Vatican Report on US Catholic Nuns

 

BOB ABERNETHY, host: The Vatican released a major report this week cracking down on the umbrella group that represents most of the Catholic nuns in the United States. The report criticized the Leadership Conference of Women Religious (LCWR) for what it called “serious doctrinal problems.” While acknowledging the group promotes social justice, the report faulted the sisters for being silent on other issues dealing with the right to life, including abortion and euthanasia. Members of the conference were also chastised for publicly challenging the Catholic bishops on certain occasions.

We have an analysis now of the Vatican’s charges and their consequences from David Gibson, national reporter for Religion News Service, a longtime Vatican observer, and author of the book The Rule of Benedict. He joins us from New York. David, welcome.

DAVID GIBSON (National Reporter, Religion News Service): Good to be here, Bob.

ABERNETHY: What stood out for you in this report, this challenge?

GIBSON: Well, Bob, I think it was really significant that this announcement came the day before Pope Benedict celebrated the seventh anniversary of his election as pope. Back seven years ago in 2005 when he was elected, so many people thought he’d be the German enforcer when he became pope, and that really hadn’t proved to be the case for most of his seven years on the throne of St. Peter’s, and many are wondering if this signals a new crackdown overall from the Vatican. The nuns were certainly very surprised at this announcement. They didn’t expect it, and they’re sort of formulating their response, and how that back and forth goes over these next few months will be really telling, I think.

ABERNETHY: But what is the Vatican going to do. and what are the U.S. bishops going to do to the nuns? They’ve got—they’re going to have severe oversight, right?

GIBSON: Yeah. I think you could compare it to a hostile takeover, more or less. They’re going to take this organization. and the bishops have the canonical authority under church law, so they can kind of do what they want. In fact, the nuns, the LCWR is thinking or one option they may have is simply disbanding.

ABERNETHY: Leadership Conference on Women Religious.

GIBSON: Yeah, the Leadership Conference on Women Religious. They’re thinking of simply disbanding and reorganizing on their own, out from under the church’s purview. But the church will have, they have—the archbishop of Seattle has a five-year mandate to oversee this overhaul, and they can rewrite their statutes and vet their speakers for their conferences and pretty much do as they like.

ABERNETHY: Do you see a role that the U.S. bishops might have played in preparing and going along with this announcement?

GIBSON: Yeah. I think obviously the bishops were on board with this. In past years, even under the late Pope John Paul II, the American bishops often pushed back on some of these things and defended their own, or they were involved in negotiations to try and mediate an agreement before you had this kind of firm crackdown. But, obviously, I think the bishops were on board with the Vatican from the get-go on this.

ABERNETHY: Some people have said that they see signs of a split within the Catholic community—between attention to social service, taking the care of the poor and all on the one hand, and religious freedom, defending religious freedom on the other, as the bishops are trying very hard to do, especially on proposals for health care reform. Do you see that, and is this part of that?

GIBSON: I think to a degree it is, Bob. I think it’s really the split between social justice, between doing all those things that the nuns in America and sisters throughout Catholic history have done, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, housing the homeless, running hospitals and universities, educational institutions, schools, and the more doctrinal issues, the pro-life, anti-gay marriage initiatives, the preaching that the bishops want to do, and the bishops are really wanting to get everyone on board here.

ABERNETHY:Thank you very much, David Gibson of Religion News Service.

GIBSON: Thank you.

Shanghai Jewish Ghetto

 

KIM LAWTON, correspondent: Coming to the Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington D.C. is often a deeply emotional experience for Deborah Strobin and her older brother Ilie Wacs. Here, they relive their own memories of World War Two…memories they were reluctant to share out loud, until recently.

DEBORAH STROBIN, co-author, An Uncommon Journey: I just didn’t really want to talk about it. And neither one of us cared to just be out there.

ILIE WACS, co-author, An Uncommon Journey: No, we never really talked about it, no.

STROBIN: I mean, if someone would have told me this many years ago, I would never have thought that would happen.

LAWTON: But now, they are indeed sharing, in a new book called, “An Uncommon Journey,” which describes their family’s flight from Vienna to Shanghai and ultimately to America. Their experiences, they’ve come to realize, are part of the larger Jewish story.

Ilie WacsWACS: It is important to tell that story. It is on the periphery of the Holocaust, actually, what happened in Europe. However, it is still a story.

LAWTON: The story begins in Vienna. Their father, a tailor, had been a deserter from the Romanian army, so the Austrian government considered him “stateless.” In 1938, when Ilie was 11, Hilter’s Nazi army marched in, annexing Austria.

WACS: Hitler was welcomed with open arms. People threw flowers at him. It was called the war of the flowers, the blumenkrieg. And I remember to this day the troops marching for endless hours through Vienna and the tanks, the goosestepping. And the people cheering Hitler. I was very angry. I was very angry at the Austrians. How could they have changed so quickly? Overnight, within 24 hours. It was mostly anger. The fear came later.

LAWTON: Then in November 1938 came a series of attacks on Jewish-owned businesses and synagogues known as Kristallnacht or night of the broken glass. A non-Jewish friend convinced the family they needed to leave. But their father’s papers were questionable, and countries like the US had very strict entry requirements.

LAWTON: However, for many years, Shanghai had been designated a “treaty port” where foreign nationals could live and trade on Chinese soil.

Leaving Vienna in 1939WACS: Shanghai was the only place in the entire world that had no visa requirement. Nothing. All you had to do is book passage. So, out of desperation, we had to leave. We chose Shanghai. Nobody really wanted to come to Shanghai, but it was the only place to go.

LAWTON: The Wacs family was able to secure passage on an Italian luxury liner.

WACS: The boat was called the Conte Biancamane.

LAWTON: The family boarded the ship in Genoa, Italy on August 16th, 1939, just two weeks before World War Two started. Ilie was 12 and Deborah, just three years old.

STROBIN: I was told—and I don’t believe I remember that at age three but—I remember getting a sense of going on this happy vacation. But that’s all I remember basically. They were trying to protect me.

WACS: There was a Russian Jewish community who came to Shanghai right after the revolution in 1917 and 18. Then there was a Sephardic Jewish community, they were known as the Baghdadi Jews. So when we got to Shanghai, there was already a Jewish community there who could help us settle up.

LAWTON: The family found a tiny apartment in the poorest section of the city, which was already occupied by the Japanese. Ilie, a budding artist, did sketches of their surroundings. Their father got some work as a tailor, but it was difficult to make a living.

WACS: It was a hard life in Shanghai. It was a very difficult life. Food was scarce. Our main occupation, thinking, was about food. When are we going to eat again? Nevertheless, there was a vibrant community in Shanghai, 18,000 of us. There was theater, there were newspapers.

LAWTON: Things got much more difficult after the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor in 1941, and Asia became a major front in the war.

WACS: The Germans kept pushing the Japanese, ‘what are you doing about solving the Jewish problem?’ All the Japanese did, they put us in a ghetto. So they treated us well during the war. Sort of treated us well. They didn’t kill us, right?

LAWTON: Deborah says she didn’t really understand what was happening, or why. Ilie, on the other hand, saw it as an adventure.

STROBIN: He was always fearless.

WACS: Yeah, well, it didn’t…

STROBIN: I had fear.

WACS: I know.

STROBIN: I was frightened all the time.

WACS: You were frightened all the time.

STROBIN: Completely. I still am.

WACS: You still are. I was not.

Deborah StrobinSTROBIN: But, but he was fearless. I mean, I remember when the bombs came, I mean when the planes came. And we could actually tell the difference between the Japanese planes and the American planes. There was a difference. And I remember the sound of it and I remember my mother yelling we must go down in the basement. He didn’t want to move. He wasn’t finished sketching.

LAWTON: Finally in 1945, after the US bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the Japanese left Shanghai, and the Americans liberated the ghetto. Jubilation however, was short-lived. They had heard rumors that bad things were happening to Jews in Europe, but they had no idea that six million had been killed.

WACS: It was really a very difficult time. On the one hand, we were happy the war was over. And then when we found out what had happened in Europe, that none of our family had survived, most of the families had not survived, and it was quite terrible. It was quite shocking.

LAWTON: The Jewish community in Shanghai survived largely intact. The Wacs family and many others finally started making their way to America, where they began a new life. Both Ilie and Deborah eventually got married and had children. Ilie became a successful fashion designer. Deborah became a fundraiser and served as deputy chief of protocol for the City of San Francisco. They didn’t talk about what had happened in Shanghai.

Then, for his 70th birthday, Ilie wanted to visit the Holocaust Museum. Deborah reluctantly came along. And there, they saw a photo of three small children in the Shanghai ghetto. Deborah was the one on the left.

A Japanese soldier took this photo of Strobin, left, to be used as propagandaSTROBIN: At first it was hard to look at the picture, to be quite honest. I mean, at first I didn’t know what I was looking at even though I know it was me, but it didn’t quite penetrate. I was concentrating more on the eyes. And I kept thinking, they look so sad. And then I realized, that was me. That sad little girl, she was actually looking back at me.

LAWTON: She remembered the day the photo was taken. The three had been playing in the park when a Japanese soldier told them to sit and smile.

STROBIN: We found out later on, obviously much later on, that there was a propaganda picture taken. They were looking for three children that were clean and didn’t look—and looked somewhat healthy. We weren’t, but we looked it.

LAWTON: Seeing that photo planted the seed to find out more about what had really happened in Shanghai. They went through their parents’ old documents, which Ilie still had stashed away. He donated the papers to the Holocaust Museum, but first, he made copies of the images and incorporated them in a series of paintings.

LAWTON: They decided to write a memoir from each of their perspectives because they felt a responsibility to bear witness to what had happened, especially for future generations.

STROBIN: Since I didn’t know anything, it didn’t seem fair for my children not to know anything either. They needed to know. My grandkids need to know.

LAWTON: Writing the book, they say, helped them to see how fortunate they were to survive. And even more than that, they say it connected them to the greater Jewish experience.

WACS: I’m not a very observant Jew, but I feel connected to the history of Judaism.

STROBIN: Yes.

WACS: It brings you closer, yes it does.

STROBIN: Yes it does.

WACS: Yes it does.

STROBIN: Makes you feel proud.

WACS: Yeah.

LAWTON: I’m Kim Lawton in Washington.

Deborah Strobin and Ilie Wacs Extended Interview

Watch more of Kim Lawton’s interview with Deborah Strobin and Ilie Wacs, co-authors of An Uncommon Journey: From Vienna to Shanghai to America, a Brother and Sister Escape to Freedom During World War II. They describe their memories of living in Shanghai, an incident when American planes accidentally dropped a bomb in the Jewish ghetto, and the impact of those times on their lives.