"It’s easy for us to depict things of this physical
world, of the way we live now, but it’s very difficult
to depict things that are not seen but have a profound
effect on us."
"Not everything has to be resolved with a finite answer.
Rather, sometimes you can allow uncertainties to exist
within the same space and situation."
"Maybe my work sometimes is like the poppy flower. It’s very beautiful,
but yet because of circumstances it also represents a poison to society as well."
"From gunpowder, from its very essence, you can see so much of the power
of the universe—how we came to be. You can express these grand ideas about the
cosmos. But at the same time, we live in the world where explosions kill people,
and then you have this other immediate context for the work."
Can you talk about the El Greco
poster that's hanging in your studio. Are his paintings an
influence on your work?
CAI:
Cultural exchange is very
important. People are always asking, “What it is you’re
interested in art historically? Who has influenced you the
most in art history?” These are repeated questions
that I have had to think about and kind of crystallize these
ideas—who’s important and why?
I’ve always,
in my heart and spiritually, felt this affinity towards El
Greco. During the Renaissance, dissecting a scene, having
proper perspective was revered. But for El Greco, he saw
beyond that already, he saw that these were only devices.
His work has pride, spirituality, and his own compromises
as well. What he has tried to express was beyond what these
rational artists were doing at the time. This spirituality
is what attracts me the most. This conversation is exchanged
with the unseen forces and with the spiritual world.
We are
working in an art that’s called visual art. And by
definition we are visually driven. In a way, we are bound
by that, limited by this very fact. So it’s easy for
us to depict things of this physical world, of the way we
live now, but it’s very difficult to depict things
that are not seen but have a profound effect on us. It’s
very difficult to show life beyond death, life beyond this
life. But there is something that he understood that these
other Renaissance artists were depicting. Of course a lot
of this is religious imagery that is meant to evoke something
that’s eternal, that’s very spiritual. But he
knew that these were only subject matters, not necessarily
what the works were representing in essence. While the subject
matter is about spirituality, they were using man as a manifestation
of that. So it was very much based on man. Maybe El Greco
inherited something of the past beyond the Renaissance.
ART:21:
Is that an analogy for your
work as well?
CAI:
Yes, it could be said as such.
However I live in a different time from El Greco. Our methodology
and style are different. The way we approach art is different,
so the representation may be different. Even though in thought,
in spirituality, or in philosophy, there are some links,
our form is different.
I come from a background of alchemy and Taoism, and I’ve
combined that with modern physics and a modern worldview.
I know, for example, space could be totally engaged in a
type of work that envelopes the audience. The work could
play out in time, there could be a time element in there.
These issues broaden our representation, our way of working.
They represent our time as well.
ART:21:
Can you talk about your working
method a little more, your methodology?
CAI:
It’s very difficult
to articulate exactly what that methodology is—even for
myself.
If I knew it all and understood it all, if I could clearly
say it, then it would become a product on a shelf.
It’s
something I’m continuously exploring and trying to
form. There are perhaps two ways of looking at that. One
is a methodology in how you view the world, how you see
and understand the world. I take a lot from the ancient
philosophies,
from Taoism. And then there is another side, how you specifically
approach art or life, exactly how you live in this world,
how you make art. One is more conceptual while the other
is more practical. I also employ the basic philosophies
of medicine—Chinese medicine or feng shui. These are very
much
infused in the more daily living and the art making process.
I can be a little bit more specific about some of these
ideas that I live by. For example, movement cultivates
vitality.
This is the idea of living within the chaos of time and
space. Maybe not everything has to be resolved with a finite
answer.
Rather, sometimes you can allow uncertainties to exist
within the same space and situation. These are obviously
ancient
ideas from China. Because I’m Chinese, this is what
I know. Some of these ideas are also found in the Western
frame of mind as well. Maybe in a slightly different perspective,
but the principles are there. Perhaps during the Age of
Reason, Enlightenment, and Industrial Revolution some of
these ideas
were cast aside for more concrete analytical ways of approaching
life. But since then, in postmodernism, some of these ideas
have resurfaced—even in science. So the Chaos Theory,
it’s
technical...in Chinese it translates as either murky or
chaos mathematics. In astrophysics and math these are ideas
that
are employed by the most modern thinkers as well. I come
from this perspective.
ART:21:
How does one work with chaos as a material for art, for example fireworks and
gunpowder?
CAI:
With time you start to get to
know the material. You actually develop a way to know how
it will behave, to a certain degree. First, you have to accept
that it’s uncontrollable and that there is an accidental
element. You have to accept it and then work with it. I’ve
worked with the material for so long that I’ve gained
an understanding of how it works. Sometimes I can control
it better than I realize, better than I expect. Then at that
point it becomes stagnant. So it’s very important that
there is always this uncontrollability that’s a part
of the work. My way of doing it is just to flow with the
material, go with the material and let it take me where it
wants me to go. So I continuously want it to give me problems
and obstacles to overcome.
ART:21:
What sort of obstacles?
CAI:
If you follow that train of
thought it might get a little boring, so let me use another
example. This whole process of making drawings is very much
like lovemaking. From the very beginning of laying down the
paper, it’s like laying down the sheets on the bed.
First you lay down the sheets and you have this idea of what
you might want to do today, in form or in action, what you
would like to accomplish. Then you bring in the materials,
you lay them out, apply pressure here, but not too much pressure
here. You know what kind of effect it might have. How much
attention you should give to a certain area, how much material
you should use, and how you should play off another balance
are all things that you have to consider throughout.
It’s a very long process. You keep going at it and
always working towards a final goal, but it’s a very
prolonged process and all the time there’s this feeling
that you just want it to explode, to finish. There’s
continuous control of pressure, you want to set this on fire,
to explode it, but yet you are afraid that maybe it’s
too early, maybe it’s not the best time yet, maybe
you need to work on it a little more.
The explosion process obviously could be equated to the climax.
Immediately afterwards we’re trying to clean it up,
put out the flames, put out the sparks, clean up the pieces,
clear it away so you can see the work. Afterwards you have
either great satisfaction or you have disappointment as to
your entire performance. These play back and forth: the material,
your idea, and what you’re working on. It’s actually
quite a biological process, it’s very visceral.
If we equate making artwork with making love you can see
a different approach here. You can talk all day about philosophy—ancient
philosophies, modern philosophies, art history, criticism,
theories. You can talk about subject matter, context, historical
context, the contemporary, postmodernism. You can talk about
form and representation. All these things can be discussed
but in the end it’s really how you do with this given
situation. You can have all these ideas about lovemaking,
but it’s really the culmination of all these things,
it’s your physicality there, how you’re involved
in that moment.
ART:21:
Can you discuss the title of
the piece "Inopportune" at MASS MoCA?
CAI:
Ever since September 11th, the
idea of terrorism is always on our minds. It’s ever
so present. And while car explosions have been around for
a long time, they have a heightened sense of reality in our
minds. "Inopportune" obviously has a direct reference
to these conditions that we live in now. But making an installation
that is so beautiful and mesmerizing that also borrows the
image of the car bomb already has inappropriateness in it.
Of course, there’s a concept behind it, but never mind
the concept—just the very fact is a difficult thing to overcome.
It’s difficult to resolve for some people. Whatever
it is, it’s a quite direct reference and commentary
about some of these issues. So maybe in this way it’s
kind of unfashionable or inappropriate, or inopportune.
Since the ’80s, maybe the ’90s, irony is such
an important part of work now. There’s less direct
commentary or direct reference to certain social problems
or phenomena in our world. Nowadays artists tend to stay
away from these kinds of ideas and take a more humorous approach,
poking fun at society. All of my work is quite direct, for
instance the car bombs or the tigers. It’s a quite
a direct reference and commentary about some of these issues.
ART:21:
In "Inopportune," both
the cars and the video installation loop, either metaphotically
or literally. Can you talk about the notion of circularity
in these works?
CAI:
Just like the cars in the main
gallery, as the first one takes off into the air, tumbling
in a very dreamlike fashion, it lands back on its four wheels,
safely, undamaged, unharmed. It repeats, going right back
to the very first car again, suggesting that it’s just
one car. And like the video in Times Square, it happens yet
it looks right back into itself and it plays out again. This
continuous loop suggests that something might or might not
have happened. This illusion that we are seeing in front
of us, the drawing may just clarify it or crystallize this
idea to actually put it in a more physical form of the circular
shape.
ART:21:
How did you plan the work? How
is it sited?
CAI:
When I first saw the exhibition
space—that elongated space, one hundred meters long and
eighteen meters wide, for the work that became "Inopportune," I felt that it was like a section of an avenue, a road that
had been transported there with that concrete floor. The
idea of doing a project having to do with car explosions
had been on our minds for some time. But these kinds of conditions
that are presented to you bring forward concrete ideas, so
it seemed like a really perfect opportunity to show this
idea. And of course the physical manifestation was also inspired
by the space itself.
And then while we were looking at how
to lay out the entire exhibition, it wasn’t just an
avenue I was given—it was like a landscape. You travel upstairs,
you come back down again, and then you go up these ramps
or go into the adjacent space. I wanted to further that idea,
and that’s one of the reasons for having that stage
prop that actually creates a little mountain where the tiger
is sitting on top, in the tiger room. There was even a little
staircase one could go up, symbolically. So these elements
were actually further extending the idea of this path or
journey, and we can say that the entire exhibition is like
a long scroll unfolding.
ART:21:
Can you talk about what's happening
in the tiger room?
CAI:
Entering the tiger room, you
see the violent act—tigers with arrows pierced into their
bodies and there’s a very visceral response. Even though
it’s completely fake, the tigers are so realistically
made that the audience feels pain when they see the them.
The pain is not in the tigers, which obviously can’t
feel. The pain is really in the person who’s viewing
this. So it’s through the artwork, because it represents
pain, that one feels this pain and has this very visceral
relationship or reaction to it.
There’s a lot of talk
about the content of my work, about the subject matter or
the historical background. But there’s not a real in-depth
investigation into the visual impact. It’s through
visual impact that you transmit these ideas. And it’s
through visual impact that this pain is felt, and you can
actually elicit a very direct response from the audience,
a very strong response. But it’s the treatment of all
the elements that has the power to do this.
ART:21:
So for you there is a connection
between aesthetics and power?
CAI:
Maybe my work sometimes is like
the poppy flower. It’s very beautiful, but yet because
of circumstances it also represents a poison to society as
well. So from gunpowder, from its very essence, you can see
so much of the power of the universe—how we came to be.
You can express these grand ideas about the cosmos. But at
the same time, we live in the world where explosions kill
people, and then you have this other immediate context for
the work.
