"...This Meeting had to do with the meeting of the
space that you're in with the meeting of the space of the
sky. So the sky's no longer out there any more, but it seems
to be brought close in touch with you and space where you
sit."
"All or most spiritual experiences, near death experiences,
are described with a vocabulary of light. So, for me, this
quality to feel light exists, almost like we see it in a
dream."
"...This idea, to go inside to find that light within,
literally, as well as figuratively, was something that really
propelled me at the time. I really thought that that's what
I should do."
How did you come to design the
Quaker Meeting House in Houston, was that your idea or did
the Friends there contact you?
TURRELL:
First of all, the Meeting House
in Houston, really was, in the beginning, the idea of Hiram
Butler, who is a gallerist in Houston. He became very interested
in the different projects regarding art and religion in Houston.
The Rothko Chapel is probably the best example that is known.
And also, he was thinking about the making of stained glass
windows in the Episcopal church. Perhaps he was wanting to
get Richard Serra to do a synagogue. He'd become interested
in Quakers at the time, and there was a Meeting that was without
any Meeting House. The Live Oak Friends Meeting in Houston
was meeting in a dance studio until they made a Meeting House.
And they had a location picked out, but they really didn't
have the funding for this. So he thought it would be a good
idea to make this similar to the Rothko Chapel, so that donors
could come from outside, particularly from the art world.
And that's what he proceeded to do: to get a situation where
donations were given largely from the art community, and also
from the Meeting as well, for the building of this Meeting
House. He did this by asking me to be involved in the design
of the Meeting House and, in particular, put some kind of
work in the Meeting House. The piece I have at P.S.1 is called
"Meeting," because of that interest. First of all, there's
this four-square seating that's inside, seating toward each
other, having a space that created some silence, allowing
something to develop slowly over time, particularly at sunset.
Also, this Meeting had to do with the meeting of the space
that you're in with the meeting of the space of the sky. So
the sky's no longer out there any more, but it seems to be
brought close in touch with you and space where you sit.
ART:21:
What sort of dialogue did you
have with the Friends while working on the Meeting House?
TURRELL:
There was a dialogue about the
Meeting House, and also the needs and the size, and those
are the more important things to the portion I was involved
with. Other things, materials and many things, came up and
they went through these things. And also Leslie Elkins, who
was the architect,
had some interesting parts, because Quaker decision making
is by consensus. So this is a rather slow process, purposefully
so. And some people will think that Quakers are sort of the
ultimate passive aggressives, in that decision-making can
be nearly like procrastination.
ART:21:
Growing up a Quaker, this Meeting
House must have had some special significance for you.
TURRELL:
Well, for me that was kind of
the Meeting House I always wanted to see. I guess I like the
literal quality, or feeling, or sensation, in that I want
to feel light physically. We drink it as vitamin D; it's actually
a food. We are heliotropic, and it has a big effect on the
skin, produces vitamin D. We also have a big psychological
relation to light. All or most spiritual
experiences, near death experiences, are described with a
vocabulary of light. So, for me, this quality to feel light
exists, almost like we see it in a dream. And in having this
associated with the Meeting, first of all, it's something
that generally wouldn't necessarily be opened with the Meeting,
but it's something that can give that quality, say in a midweek
Meeting, or in the evening when you change from day to night.
So it was something I was very happy to do. It just took a
lot to plan it.
ART:21:
How did the design of the building
take shape, especially when it comes to the ceiling that is
removable?
TURRELL:
The Meeting is actually like
the Gunpowder Meeting, or some of the earlier American Quaker
Meetings, like at Easton, Maryland, or Treylevon, which is
1680's, and one of the earliest structures that's been in
continuous use. Gunpowder Meeting - the long house form is
something that was tradition, but it was mainly over here.
That's what I started with as an idea. But then making this
in terms of the sizing and the use that was asked for by Live
Oak Meeting - I mean it's a very traditional form, except
it's convertible. The top opens, and it makes a sky space
where sky is really brought down to you; your awareness of
it is made quite different. Anyway, I suggested that, and
it was a little bit of a novel idea, that it's a roof that
opens. But they were very interested to do this, and so in
the end came up with this, and we started out with this fundraising.
I think it was quite interesting.
ART:21:
How does the meaning of light
relate to the Quaker tradition?
TURRELL:
Well, George Fox talked about
the light, both in a literal and a figurative sense, or allegorical
sense. And a lot of it is the revelation, which is a light,
as in a bright idea can light, but it always says this image
of light, and so I was very interested in this literal look
at it, actually greeting this light that you find in meditation,
and following that. But, that's not its entire meaning, and
I think that that's why I just express it that way. But it's
certainly something that I've related to and like.
ART:21:
Do you remember your first Meeting?
TURRELL:
We had very early Meetings, or
earlier Meetings. Some of them were longer than one hour.
And so it's something for a child to be introduced to the
Meeting. And there was this time when you no longer are in
first day of school, but you actually come and join the Meeting.
And my grandmother was trying to tell me what you did. So
her explanation to me was you went inside to greet the light.
And this idea, to go inside to find that light within, literally,
as well as figuratively, was something that really propelled
me at the time. I really thought that that's what I should
do. Of course, I'm still trying to figure out exactly what
she meant. But I like that quality. You have to also remember
that I fell away from all this, and for many years, nearly
twenty-five years, had no interest whatsoever in this, but
carried on this involvement with light. And again talking
about this idea of light, particularly the light not seen
with the eyes, was very important. When you think of the dream
- where does the light come from in the dream? Here is a way
of seeing with a richer color, greater lucidity of color,
and certainly equal, if not better, clarity in some dreams,
and you have your eyes completely closed. So you ask yourself,
"Is this just memory?" Well, then, how do you explain this
sort of deja vu? Maybe this is memory and the dream is the
reality. So we have ways of thinking about reality, and a
lot of what we're doing is figuring out how we create our
own reality that we then live within. And that's very interesting
to me about art, because art has a lot to do with this changing
our sense of reality.
