I tried posting this the day I saw the broadcast, but is stubbornly refuses to appear.

Letter to Bill Moyers’ Journal Blog 15/16 August 2008.

I watched the interview with Colonel Bacevich this evening and I agreed with most of his conclusions on such things as the view by Americans in general that the "American Way of Life" will continue to dominate the world's cultural and economic expectations indefinitely; that Americans view their way of life as self-evidently superior to any other ("There are only two kinds of people in the world: Americans and foreigners who want to be Americans."); the resulting attitude that it is logically and morally justifiable to promote "Our Way of Life" (American interests) by any means from minor economic bullying to massive military intervention. I also agree that the latter method doesn't work for any meaningful length of time. I also have wondered at the Republican "Less government, less tax" Administration which has hugely expanded the size of the Federal Government, increased spending and consequently public debt almost to Argentinian proportions and seems to have forgotten that it was one of its own former Presidents (Reagan) who crowed that trying to outspend the US economy had destroyed the Soviet Union. President Bush seems determined to try to outspend the US economy from the inside.

I too have long shared the view that sometime soon the growth of the Imperial Presidency and the abrogation of political responsibility by the US Congress which occasioned it will result in the twin trauma of a major economic and a major political crisis, probably intertwined, unless some major course corrections and a fairly healthy dollop of good luck intervene and soon.

What surprised me was the fact that Colonel Bacevich managed to explain his reasoning without a single mention of parallels in the history of any other country. I am New Zealand-born and educated, lived in the US for a couple of years, lived for long enough in independent Samoa and Colombia to become familiar with their political systems, but for the last 27 years I have lived in the best place in the world to observe the US without living in it, namely Canada. Most Americans (and numbers of Canadians) seem unaware that the founders of Canada were Americans. These particular Americans were the ones who believed that the freedoms they valued most were best preserved by continued loyalty to the Crown and who felt strongly enough to go into exile as refugees. Their political ideals were expressed as "Peace, Order and Good Government." Since the 1780s, of course, the definitions of these ideals have evolved and all of those ideals imply a jealous defence of the democratic right of the Canadian People to define them.

On the one hand, Americans have pretty much settled into a two-party system which seems to be becoming, or as Colonel Bacevich said has become, a one-party system with two official faces, This is headed by a Head of State/Head of Government with his political Praetorian Guard doing their level best to make the elected Houses irrelevant and the Houses by and large letting them. It puts me in mind of a sort of slow-motion (thankfully) Augustus Caesar and his permanent sidelining of the Roman Senate. On the other hand, the other Americans have built a multi-party system which has kept the Head of State and Head of Government as separate offices: the Monarch or her Governor General largely ceremonial, but with a crucial constitutional democratic safety-valve role in a crisis and the everyday duty to “advise and warn;” the Prime Minister as the Head of the Executive, he and all the other members of which must be elected members of the Legislature and who must answer questions in the House on their actions on a weekly or even daily basis when Parliament is sitting.

The different approaches to the separation of powers by the two American nations speak to the way in which they separated from British colonial rule: the one by revolution, the other by evolution; one in a paroxysm occasioned by the actuality and perception of increased interference in their daily lives (remember that the "Intolerable Acts" included interference by the Crown in the colonists' "right" to exploit and dominate the recently conquered French Canadians and their land, and any and all Native Americans and their land); the other by the gradual assumption of increased responsibilities occasioned largely by benign neglect. Neither system is perfect nor has anyone made a convincing case to describe either as such. Both are based upon the rule of law in the form of the Common Law inherited from England plus a written Constitution and Bill of Rights (or Bill of Rights and Freedoms, in Canada's case).

I am somewhat bemused by the paucity of constitutional challenges to some of the measures brought into effect under the present US administration. I had always thought that one of the favourite freedoms most cherished by Americans and exercised at the drop of a hat was the right to submit almost anything to a constitutional challenge... These days I am constantly reminded of a quintessentially American dictum: "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

I am of the strong opinion that another influence on the apparent turning of the US Legislative Branch from a law-making group to a get-myself-re-elected-by-whatever-means-available gang of trough-guzzlers is something that at first glance seems to strengthen democracy. I refer to the fixed election dates that pertain in the American system. This makes it possible for a Congressman or Senator to lay out a carefully calculated re-election campaign gradually building from the the day he or she takes office to peak at exactly the right moment to have maximum impact on his or her constituency in time for a date known precisely four or six years in advance. This also makes it so expensive to get elected, because if you start spending just a little before your opponents, you will have an advantage. By now, of course, it has reached the point where you begin spending for the next election the moment the last one is over. That also gives the incumbent an advantage because he can point out to donors that he has just proved his ability to win an election. He is also in a position to begin doing favours for them right away with the whole term ahead of him.

Compare this with the parliamentary system as it obtains in Britain, Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc. There, a Member of Parliament cannot know when he may face re-election because, while there is a maximum term for each Parliament, there is no minimum. A Prime Minister may call an election at any time with as little as three weeks notice. This can be because he or she feels that the moment is most favourable for his or her party at the polls, although in practice it is usually close to maximum-term and is also no guarantee of success, as many governing parties have found out. Other reasons for a snap election include losing a Vote of Confidence in the House, or being defeated on a Money Bill. By long tradition, these circumstances force an election. If you wonder at the power of tradition in the Parliamentary system, that is where the monarch or Governor General (the monarch's representative in the realms overseas) comes in. The sole constitutional power that can be exercised by the monarch or viceroy, beyond the everyday duty to "advise and warn," is to dismiss Parliament, which automatically triggers a General Election. Thus any Prime Minister who wishes to defy tradition after losing a confidence vote or a money bill will be wasting his time and, at the same time, will probably wreck any chance at re-election.

The simple threat of this sanction is so effective that it has only been used twice in the last 100 years. Once in the Australian State of New South Wales in 1932, when the State Governor Sir Philip Game (who has an equivalent constitutional position in relation to the State as the GG has at the federal level) dismissed the Government of New South Wales, and in 1975 the Australian Governor General Sir John Kerr dismissed the Australian Commonwealth (federal) Government.

At first glance it seems undemocratic for the monarch or Governor General to have the power to dismiss a democratically elected Parliament, but two circumstances keep it from being anything but a last resort. The first of these is tradition backed up by public opinion and the second is that, in any case, the effect of such a dismissal is to have a General Election where the people make up their minds which side of the particular controversy has sufficient merit to put its proponents (back) in charge.

Because the next election date is not completely predictable, vacancies in individual seats created by death, illness etc. are filled by a by-election where the local electoral commission runs an election for that specific electoral district instead of someone appointing a temporary replacement. This has the added benefit, depending on the outcome, of often being a useful barometer of the current government’s approval.

The whole package, particularly the unsure actual date of the next election, tends to make MPs somewhat less focussed on plans for re-election and, at least it is hoped, more on the jobs they were elected to do.

The essay, "When it comes to the Imperial Presidency, has the Rubicon been crossed?" may be of interest:

http://cikehara.blogspot.com/2009/03/when-it-comes-to-imperial-presidency.html

ARE THEY KINGS OF SLAVES OR THE US CONGRESS ?

CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY IN USA HAVE BEEN DEVIOUSLY & DECEPTIVELY INFLICTED ON POORER AMERICAN’S !

**** A INTERNATIONAL WORLD COURT INVESTIGATION IS NEEDED INTO THESE HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS !

PRESIDENT OBAMA NEEDS TO TELL THE LEADERS OF THE FREE WORLD DEMOCRATIC US CONGRESS ~ LET MY PEOPLE GO !

WILL THE INTERNATIONAL WORLD COURT AND THE POPE COME TO THE RESCUE OF THESE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF ENSLAVED POORER AMERICAN’S ??

***The CATHOLIC CHURCH could really help AMERICA right now by arranging a speech from the VATICAN by the POPE concerning THIS modern day ENSLAVEMENT of POORER AMERICAN’S by our complacent IVORY TOWER US CONGRESS who appears to be more interested in financing other US Congressional interests then our UNDERFUNDED AMERICAN JUDICIAL SYSTEM.

***THE POPE KNOWS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A STATE MURDER OF TROY DAVIS IN GEORGIA, AND A JUDICIAL EXECUTION OF TROY DAVIS IN GEORGIA. ***

MANY INTERNATIONAL CITIZENS HAVE ALREADY STARTED TO BOYCOTT THIS ROGUE STATE OF GEORGIA ! WILL MILLIONS MORE OF CARING AMERICAN’S AND INTERNATIONAL CITIZENS AVOID GIVING THE STATE OF GEORGIA ANY FUTURE BUSINE$$ IF A 3YR. BOYCOTT TAKES PLACE OVER THIS STATE NOT EVEN OFFERING JUSTICE WITH A NEW LEGITIMATE CRIMINAL TRIAL FOR MR.TROY DAVIS? IT’S BEEN SAID BY MANY THAT A THREE YEAR INTERNATIONAL BOYCOTT OF THIS STATE MIGHT VERY WELL COST IT TENS OF MILLION$ WHERE A NEW AND FAIR TRIAL OF TROY DAVIS MIGHT COST THE STATE LESS THAN $100,000.

A SPECIAL FEDERAL TASK FORCE MADE UP OF INVESTIGATORS AND LAWYERS DESIGNED TO VERIFY EVERY ASPECT OF THE 3,300 VARIOUS DEATH ROW LEGAL CASES NATIONWIDE,IS OUR COUNTRIES ONLY REAL METHOD TO MAKE SURE WE DO NOT ALLOW STATES LIKE GEORGIA TO CONTINUE ATTEMPTING TO MURDER POSSIBLE INNOCENT POORER AMERICAN’S LIKE MR.TROY DAVIS!

FOR THOSE MILLIONS OF AMERICAN’S WHO BELIEVE IN GOD, WE ALL HAVE TO WONDER IN TOTAL AMAZEMENT, HOW OUR AMERICAN RELIGIOUS LEADERS HAVE ALLOWED THIS HORROR TO CONTINUE WRONGFULLY EXECUTING AND INCARCERATING INNOCENT AMERICAN’S ALL ACROSS OUR COUNTRY ???

LAWYERS FOR POOR AMERICANS IS A DEDICATED WWW VOLUNTEERS LOBBY GROUP WHO ARE INTERESTED IN PREVENTING FURTHER CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY CONTINUING TO BE INFLICTED ON MIDDLE CLASS AND WORKING POOR AMERICANS WHO ARE BEING DENIED PROPER LEGAL REPRESENTATION AND BEING FALSELY IMPRISONED AND EXECUTED ALL ACROSS AMERICA!!
lawyersforpooramericans@yahoo.com 424-247-2013)
**GIVE THEM LIBERTY OR GIVE THEM LAWYERS !
***********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

THE GREAT LIE
by Gerry Spence

The idea that we should furnish the poor with a public defender has been an effort to save our nation from shame - for sending the poor to prison without adequate representation. But today the nation’s public defender system has become a mockery of justice.

To provide an accused with a public defender who has three hundred other cases to defend is simply to laugh in the face of both justice and the accused himself. It takes me months to prepare the average criminal case for trial. The trial itself can take weeks, even months.

While O.J. Simpson was being tried in Los Angeles for murder, a case that cost millions to defend and months to conclude, another black man was being tried in the same courthouse for a similar murder. It took only three days for a jury to find him guilty. He had a public defender with scores of other cases to defend. Many prosecutors boast that they have over a 90 percent conviction rate. Little wonder. Under the present public defender system the prosecutors should enjoy one hundred percent convictions, and many in fact approach perfect conviction rates.

The public defenders in seven states have finally refused to take on any new cases. It’s about time. If I walked into court to defend my client and had never talked him, never previously opened his file, never discovered the witnesses against him, much less interviewed them, never reviewed the evidence in the hands of the prosecution, never demanded my clients rights to discovery, never read the cases relevant to the case at hand, never prepared the cross examination of the witnesses against my client, never … and on and on, I would be guilty of legal malpractice.

Every public defender who purports to represent an accused under circumstances in which he or she has neither the time nor the resources to fully defend the client is guilty of malpractice. These public defenders cannot be saved from malpractice because they are crushed under a ridiculous case load - some with even as many as five hundred cases or more. No one who was accused with such an attorney has received a fair trial and every such accused is entitled to an appeal on that basis alone. The judge must not sentence the accused under these circumstances because the judge would be taking part in a fraud on the system. Yet hundreds of thousands of indigent persons go to prison each year under circumstances no better than those outlined above.

When I was coming up as a young prosecutor, the defendants were represented pro bono by the lawyers in the local bar. It was part of the duty of members of the bar to take part in the justice system. Today that idea is unheard of. The practice of law is first and foremost a money-making profession. I see nothing wrong with that notion, but what about giving back?

Every trial lawyer should be required to take on a couple of pro bono cases every year. At our office we have a separate pro bono law firm and have for over ten years. It often brings us more satisfaction than our big money wins. The job of a lawyer is to represent the people - the lost, the forgotten, the damned, the hated, the voiceless and the poor. Indeed, God forbid, we may one day become one of those who are entitled to representation but cannot afford it.

Every time an accused goes to prison without having received a fair trial we are one step closer to the loss of our own freedoms. Our rights are, in fact, being fought for by public defenders who can never fulfill their duty to their clients because of their pathetic, impossible, caseloads. When they fail, we are in danger. Our system becomes a hypocritical charade. And we prove, once and for all, that the promised justice for all in America is an evil lie that is imposed on the poor.

If only those with money can receive justice, then how can we permit our children to recite a horrible falsehood in school when they chant, “with liberty and justice for all.” That can no longer be the truth in America.
*************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
GERRY SPENCE IS A RENOWNED LAWYER AND PATRIOTIC AMERICAN WHO EVEN AT THE AGE OF 82, CONTINUES TO SHOW A KEEN INTEREST IN WANTING TO BETTER AMERICA FOR THE MASSES OF POORER AMERICANS BEING CAUGHT IN OUR UNDERFUNDED JUDICIAL SYSTEM.LAWYERS FOR POOR AMERICANS THANKS YOU MR.SPENCE FOR TAKING YOUR TIME AND INTEREST IN SPEAKING THE TRUTH ABOUT A JUDICIAL SYSTEM IN NEED OF C*H*A*N*G*E…

WE CAN ONLY HOPE AND PRAY OTHER AMERICAN LAWYERS AND JUDGES WILL FOLLOW YOUR LEAD SO THE PROPER FINANCING CAN BE ALLOCATED BY OUR IVORY TOWER US CONGRESS !

ANYONE INTERESTED CAN GOOGLE OR YAHOO GERRY SPENCE ON THE WWW FOR MANY OTHER ENLIGHTENING HONEST ARTICLES.

TROY DAVIS, PLEASE REMEMBER THAT AMERICA IS NOT THE OLD SOUTH ~ AFRICA !

A $TATE ECONOMIC BOYCOTT OF GEORGIA INTERNATIONALLY WILL OBVIOU$LY BE THE END RE$ULT OF GEORGIA DECIDING TO MURDER A PO$$IBLE INNOCENT TROY DAVI$ WITHOUT A NEW AND FAIR TRIAL ?

US CONGRESSIONAL MEMBERS WHO ARE ALSO LAWYERS BY TRADE, CONTINUE TO DENY poorer AMERICAN'S PROPER LEGAL REPRESENTATION !!!

THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY NEEDS TO BEGIN A FORMAL INVESTIGATION INTO THESE US CONGRESSIONAL CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY, AND HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS BEING INFLICTED ON poorer AMERICAN'S LIKE MR.TROY DAVIS OF GEORGIA !!!

HAVING BEEN DENIED APPEAL LAWYERS FOR THREE YEARS ON DEATH ROW IN GEORGIA MR. TROY DAVIS IS NOW BEING EXECUTED FOR A CRIME HE MIGHT NOT HAVE EVEN BEEN INVOLVED WITH !!!

SENATOR OBAMA PLEASE LET THIS COUNTRIES VOTERS KNOW YOUR FEELINGS AND THOUGHTS ABOUT A NEEDED FUTURE REPAIR AND RENOVATION OF OUR BROKEN JUDICIAL SYSTEM THAT CONTINUES TO ALLOW THE EXECUTION'S OF EVEN POSSIBLE INNOCENT AMERICAN’S LIKE TROY DAVIS OF GEORGIA ?????

BEING THE WEALTHIEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD SENATOR OBAMA, DON'T WE NEED AS THE LEADERS OF THE FREE WORLD TO BEGIN ONCE AGAIN TO RE-INVEST THE PROPER MONIE$ IN OUR OWN US JUDICIAL SYSTEM, ASSURING ALL OF OUR CITIZENS THEIR RIGHTS TO FAIR TRIALS WITH PROPER LEGAL REPRESENTATION ???

DOES GOD NEED TO LOBBY OUR US CONGRESSIONAL LEADERS OF THE FREE WORLD ON BEHALF OF OUR poorer american’s SENATOR OBAMA,OR ARE YOU WATCHING OUT FOR THEM ??

***OUR US CONGRESS CONTINUES TO DENY MIDDLE CLASS AND WORKING POOR AMERICANS PROPER LEGAL REPRESENTATION EVEN THOUGH WRONGFUL EXECUTIONS & FALSE INCARCERATIONS CONTINUE ALL ACROSS AMERICA ???

*** 700 BILLION $$$ AVAILABLE FOR US BAILOUT, & NO $$$ FOR ALL POORER AMERICANS PROPER LEGAL REPRESENTATION ? SENATOR OBAMA, THIS JUDICIAL INJUSTICE HAS BECOME AN AMERICAN ART FORM, AND NO LONGER CAN BE KEPT HIDDEN OR SECRET FROM THE AMERICAN PEOPLE EVEN IF CERTAIN (501c3) U$ RELIGIOU$ LEADER$ HAVE BEEN $ILENCED ??

LETS ALL HOPE OUR MEDIA FRIENDS CONTINUE TO SHOW AN INTEREST IN REPORTING ON THIS AMERICAN HORROR FACING THESE (TENS OF THOUSANDS) FORGOTTEN AND TRAPPED POORER AMERICANS, AND HOW THIS PRESIDENTIAL CONTENDER HANDLES THIS VERY SERIOUS ISSUE FACING AMERICA’S LATINO AND BLACK AMERICAN COMMUNITIES ????

WITH 80% OF THE BLACK AMERICAN VOTERS SAYING THEY SUPPORT SENATOR OBAMA IN THIS PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, IT IS ONLY FAIR FOR EVERYONE TO KNOW PRIOR BEING ELECTED OUR NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES HOW THIS DEMOCRATIC SENATOR TRULY FEELS ABOUT THIS AMERICAN JUDICIAL INJUSTICE CONTINUING TO INFLICT GRAVE HARM ON THE BLACK & LATINO AMERICAN FAMILIES AND THEIR COMMUNITIES NATIONWIDE ??????

*** WHEN GOD’S FACE BECAME VERY RED *** THE US SUPREME COURT GAVE ENEMY COMBATANTS FEDERAL APPEAL HC RIGHTS LAWYERS AND PROPER ACCESS TO US FEDERAL COURTS,AND POORER AMERICANS (MANY EVEN ON DEATH ROW) ARE DENIED PROPER FEDERAL APPEAL LEGAL REPRESENTATION TO OUR US FEDERAL COURTS OF APPEAL, AND ROTTING IN AMERICAN PRISONS NATIONWIDE ?????????

**** INNOCENT AMERICANS ARE DENIED REAL HC RIGHTS WITH THEIR FEDERAL APPEALS ! THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE $LOWLY FINDING OUT HOW EA$Y IT I$ FOR MIDDLE CLA$$ AND WORKING POOR AMERICAN$ TO FALL VICTIM TO OUR U$ MONETARY JUDICIAL $Y$TEM.

****WHEN THE US INNOCENT WERE ABANDONED BY THE GUILTY **** The prison experts have reported that there are 100,000 innocent Americans currently being falsely imprisoned along with the 2,300,000 total US prison population nationwide.

***WHERE ARE AMERICA'S RELIGIOUS LEADERS ??????? Since our US Congress has never afforded poor prison inmates federal appeal legal counsel for their federal retrials,they have effectively closed the doors on these tens of thousands of innocent citizens ever being capable of possibly exonerating themselves to regain their freedom through being granted new retrials.

This same exact unjust situation was happening in our Southern States when poor and mostly uneducated Black Americans were being falsely imprisoned for endless decades without the needed educational skills to properly submit their own written federal trial appeals.

This devious and deceptive judicial process of making our poor and innocent prison inmates formulate and write their own federal appeal legal cases for possible retrials on their state criminal cases,is still in effect today even though everyone in our US judicial system knows that without proper legal representation, these tens of thousands of innocent prison inmates will be denied their rightful opportunities of ever being granted new trials from our federal appeal judges!!

Sadly, the true US *legal* Federal Appeal situation that occurs when any of our uneducated American prison inmates are forced to attempt to submit their own written Federal Appeals (from our prisons nationwide) without the assistance of proper legal counsel, is that they all are in reality being denied their legitimate rights for Habeas Corpus with our US FEDERAL COURTS and will win any future Supreme Court Case concerning this injustice!

For our judicial system and our US Congressional Leaders Of The Free World to continue to pretend that this is a real and fair opportunity for our American Middle Class and Working Poor Citizens, only delays the very needed future change of Federal Financing of all these Federal appeals becoming a normal formula of Our American judicial system.

It was not so very long ago that Public Defenders became a Reality in this country.Prior that legal reality taking place, their were also some who thought giving anyone charged with a crime a free lawyer was a waste of taxpayers $$.

This FACADE and HORROR of our Federal Appeal proce$$ is not worthy of the Greatest Country In The World! ***GREAT SOCIETIES THAT DO NOT PROTECT EVEN THEIR INNOCENT, BECOME THE GUILTY !

A MUST READ ABOUT AMERICAN INJUSTICE:
1) YAHOO 2) GOOGLE
(MANNY GONZALES THE KID THAT EVERYONE FORGOT IN THE CA PRISON SYSTEM.) ** A JUDICIAL RIDE OF ONES LIFE !

***Someone please tell our US Congress that the GED degree that Manny Gonzales acquired in prison is not a LAW DEGREE !!!!!!

lawyersforpooramericans@yahoo.com (424-247-2013)

I thought the most important part of the interview was when the conversation touched on the death of his son. He avoided this topic as if emotion would undermine his intellectual argument. Having watched this show for some time, and witnessed the parade of intellect, it has to beg the question at some point,why is there still such a division of opinion in the country? How can 'they' be so ignorant when such cogent arguments have been made over and over. It is exactly this artificial 'us' and 'them', 'democrats' and 'republicans' that is in such need of being bridged and dismantled. Intellectual arguments cannot bridge this divide, particularly when intellect is regarded as one of the defining characteristics separating these groups. Only by stepping back and coming to grips with reality can progress be made. In this case, highlighting the pain of the loss of a child is the common denominator to all of us as human beings. That is what can bring these groups together. It is the effort in this conversation and more widely by the government to sanitize the war which is preventing this realization.

George W. Bush’s sentence-by-sentence speaking skills are deteriorating. Apparently, this may be due to a mental illness called “presenile dementia.” Bush may or may not be secretly still drinking heavily. Bush lied, and thousands of people died. Bush suffers from narcissism and megalomania. Moreover, Bush has been arrested three times. Bush was arrested for disorderly conduct. Bush was arrested for stealing. Bush was also arrested for a serious crime—driving under the influence of alcohol. There are reasons to believe that Bush suffers from a learning disability. Bush’s learning disability would explain a lot of things. All in all, Bush is a severely mentally ill individual. Bush is not fit to be the president of the United States.

Bush should be locked up.

Submitted by Andrew Yu-Jen Wang
B.S., Summa Cum Laude, 1996
Messiah College, Grantham, PA

Bill, the one reason to exist for these parties is that they claim they vet the candidate. The witless wonder that currently occupies the White House was an example of the best choice that the republican party came up with not once, but twice. Why would anyone of intelligence buy that the current choice of the republican masters be any different. The behavior characteristics of Bush that have led to this political and economic disaster were there for any 1st year psychology student to see. The Republican masters chose him because of exactly what he was. Anyone associating themselves with this party must accept their values; that includes McCain. Why would the American people go back to the well that has so poisoned us yet again. Think America for God's sake this is absolutely your last chance to do a turn around. "If you want more of the same, vote mcCain. If you want even a chance for change vote Obama.

When George Bush the Elder selected Dan Quayle for VP I noted that this was done as impeachment insurance. Any possible action by Congress to investigate George's role in the Iran Contra affair swiftly evaporated.

So now I understand the selection of Palin.

The next questions are: (1) What is John McCain planning? (2) Can we anticipate continuation of the Bush imperial presidency?

Where in the hell was the broadcast. The presidential debates cleared Oregon Public Broadcasting; but cleared it in such a way that the Bill Moyers journal was postponed until this week which was the Financial crisis; and not Bacevich at all.

I disagree with conservative politics but don't disagree with Bacevich's analysis of our democracy today. The American citizenry does a piss-poor job of examining itself and looking inward to identify those problems which contribute to the decline of this country's democracy. We (American electorate) are arrogant and the republican party champions and channels this arrogance to the detriment of the planet. The absence of humility in American politics is felt more now than ever before. I do not believe that Obama would become an imperial president as Bacevich fears. Obama is an intellectual (unlike our current plebeian and imperious president) and more a philosophical statesman. He is a far cry from what the republicans offer which is nothing but more war and fear. The republican party is so bereft of any wisdom so much like a good portion of the American electorate. In my studies of American history, I've come to the conclusion that the American electorate learned nothing from Vietnam and if weren't for the disdain of history so amply shown by our current president (and supported by the ignorant and arrogant electorate) we would never have found ourselves in the mess that we are in today. Surely a Gore presidency would never have invaded Iraq! Alas, the republican party has heightened a state of war, fear and constant emergency in this country and the American electorate never seems to tire of it. Or does it? Will electing Obama actually change the climate of fear and war in this country?? Congress is an abject failure of a democratic institution and I believe the constitution as written on paper is so far removed from reality today that it begs for the calling of a new constitutional convention to redesign our "democratic" government. For starters, adopting a partliamentary style of government as exemplified by Great Britain would be a great start. Forcing a president to defend his decisions in front of a congress that consistently demands that their president argue and defend his position and if he or she is incapable of doing that, then he can be voted out of office via a lack of confidence of vote. I could go and on but democracy in the United States is a joke and our constitution is a joke as it is implemented today. The United States will always remain a democratic "experiment" but a far cry from democracy itself.

I disagree with conservative politics but don't disagree with Bacevich's analysis of our democracy today. The American citizenry does a piss-poor job of examining itself and looking inward to identify those problems which contribute to the decline of this country's democracy. We (American electorate) are arrogant and the republican party champions and channels this arrogance to the detriment of the planet. The absence of humility in American politics is felt more now than ever before. I do not believe that Obama would become an imperial president as Bacevich fears. Obama is an intellectual (unlike our current plebeian president) and more a philosophical statesman. He is a far cry from what the republicans offer which is nothing but more war and fear. The republican party is so bereft of any wisdom so much like a good portion of the American electorate. In my studies of American history, I've come to the conclusion that the American electorate learned nothing from Vietnam and if weren't for the disdain of history so amply shown by our current president (and supported by the ignorant and arrogant electorate) we would never have found ourselves in the mess that we are in today. Surely a Gore presidency would never have invaded Iraq! Alas, the republican party has heightened a state of war, fear and constant emergency in this country and the American electorate never seems to tire of it. Or does it? Will electing Obama actually change the climate of fear and war in this country?? Congress is an abject failure of a democratic institution and I believe the constitution as written on paper is so far removed from reality today that it begs for the calling of a new constitutional convention to redesign our "democratic" government. For starters, adopting a partliamentary style of government as exemplified by Great Britain would be a great start. Forcing a president to defend his decisions in front of a congress that consistently demands that their president argue and defend his position and if he or she is incapable of doing that, then he can be voted out of office via a lack of confidence of vote. I could go and on but democracy in the United States is a joke and our constitution is a joke as it is implemented today. The United States will always remain a democratic "experiment" but a far cry from democracy itself.

The only reasons the "President" has become so imperious are (1) we allowed the Installation (not the Election) of an Imperious and intemperate man, (2) Congress has totally abdicated its responsibilities.

The Democrats could have stopped the war cold by defunding it, but were afraid of propaganda retaliation by the Right. They'd rather get re-elected than do the right thing. So if the President is a Thug and Congress won't stand up to him, then you get what we have gotten: a march toward Authoritarianism with a Supreme Leader (whose Crimes are Not Crimes), and NO APOLOGIES FOR THE DEATH OF DEMOCRACY.

Read David Brock's "The Republican Noise Machine" and read John W. Dean's "Conservatives without Conscience". See the bibiography under references at whatiwanttoknow.org.

When "they" say they need another war, you tell them: PROVE IT, with ALL THE EVIDENCE. Otherwise WE'LL IMPEACH YOU FOR WAR CRIMES. Even just threatening Iran is a crime under International Law.

Tired of the propaganda...

Believe it or not, economics is based on trust and fidelity not gold in the ground. Our ten trillion dollar debt proves that the size of the numbers has nothing to do with the function of the economy. As long as we can project the debt to the future and maintain faith in the system; the size of the numbers is insignificant.
What does matter is efficient use of numbers to provide the equitable distribution of goods and services, the maintenance of society and the development of progress.
What we need to know is both the value of everything and the right cost for everything. Economics is a dynamic system and has to be projected to the future.
People need sufficient numbers to support their lifestyle just as government and industry need sufficient numbers to survive. The trick is allowing the economic system to work automatic as required and have numbers available to enhance the economic system.

Bacevich actually points out the psychological and spiritual dilemma facing the American people, though remaining politically, militarily and governmentally focussed. The tendency to blame the outside for our own interior difficulty is the paychological function of projection and denial. We resemble the Roman Empire as it was falling, busy indulging our vices, being entertained while people are fed to the lions (media), inept self-serving government (though there are genuine public servants in government). All empires are doomed to rise and fall, ours is falling. The question is how will we fall? Do we have the capacity to stop and look at ourselves and make different choices? It is demanded of us.

When we became the industrialize "teeming masses", when we were defeated by assasinations and liars in the White House, we masses became disenfranchised, disempowered. The actual fact that we are inextricably interconnected and that everything each one of us does affects everything and everyone else. This is known to us scientifically, ecologically, and from the mystical reality.

This economic crises is our second wake up call in a decade. As Congressman Kucinich said, "Wake Up America!" I don't know who to give the credit to, but someone said, "Democracy is advanced citizenship." We have an incredible opportunity now to stop behaving like Romans, fat, bloated pac man consumers believing it's our right to do whatever we want regardless of the cost, eating our peeled for us grapes flown in from Chile in the off season picked by field workers earning 10 dollars a day. How much oil does it take to get grapes to the US from Chile? How much does it cost to make a fruit supplier rich while exploiting people all over the planet?

Our power also lies in our consumer dollars, since that's all we're valued for, so what if we became smart consumers, lived more simply? What if we stopped gobbling up everything in sight? What if we really recognized that every single choice we make impacts the whole system? What if we realized that a little soul searching is good for everyone? What if we each actually took responsiblity for the situation we're in and decided to change the way we participate? Hmmm.

We're an ingenious delightful people. I really like Americans even the ones I disagree with heartily, resilient and resourceful and caring. What it means to be an American needs to be redifined. We have to recognize that to be a consumer society is an insult. Our happiness is not to be found through our consumption, our buying or crediting power, that's empty and it's destroying everything we ought to be holding dear. This country is really extraordinary. As Obama pointed out, we used to stand for something in the world, we used to provide people hope for the safety of having rights to speak freely (without wire tapping), to worship freely, to be able to protest, to get justice, not to be dominated by an ideology but to find one's own way.

We have to hold politicians accountable and PAY ATTENTION. When the rhetoric that they use to get elected is NOT what they do, they're OUT! We have to stop being manipulated by Rasputin like marketers who tell us what we want to hear while doing whatever they please. Remember that "ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS?" This is the huge problems the Republicans face. They talked a good game, they didn't deliver, and we the people not only let them get away with it, we got our greedy guts filled with the proceeds. The time has come to pay, not the fat cats, but the price. The consequences of our "buy now pay later" attitudes have come to pass.

As a person whose lived on the edge, whose credit rating is awful, I can tell you it's possible to live a fulfilled and happy life with very little ... it's probably more likely. Do more with less, need less, consume less, pay attention, know each person is an integral essential part of the whole, what we do matters.

The American Dream got hijacked by those who wanted money and power, it's not about being a billionaire and having a bunch of stuff. It's about the freedom to live a fulfilled life making a contribution not an empty life of endless consumption. We have always been at our best when participating in something larger than ourselves. We're all a part of a great experiment of mythological proportions: Can people effectively govern themselves? Freedom is not being free to indulge, it's great responsibility, it's being responsive to something larger than ourselves in every moment: society, country, community, planet, and/or whatever you may believe is the source and cause of all life. Who we are, how we live out our deepest held values is how change occurs. Gandhi said, "Be the change you want to see in the world." We have to stop letting ourselves off the hook. It's probably never been more important AND it's exactly how we come to be leaders in the world again, gain the respect of people. It means hard work, helping out one another, less comsumption of entertainment in isolation, more participation in whatever makes the world a little better, even in the smallest way. The only way a better tomorrow can dawn is by what each of us does right now. May we make informed compassionate choices.

Bill, as courageous as you, why not invite Ralph Nader?

His excellent interview 9/30
http://www.votenader.org/live/

Two points:
1) The Democrats were elected in 2006 to end the war, but they had only a simple majority and could not override the Presidential veto or a filibuster. I believe Bill Moyers should have pursued that issue when Bacevich said that the Democrats had failed.

2) Obama will NOT be an imperial president, he LEADS (not rules) by concensus.

Most of what Bacevich says is very insightful, but he clearly shows his Conservative bias on these two points. It is most unfortunate, because it limits how much the full spectrum of Americans will listen to him.

Absolutely incredible! I have never heard so much truth laid out in such a short time. There will be many who can't look in the mirror and honestly assess themselves and what they want vs. what they need. I needed to hear that someone out there understands what is really wrong with this country on so many levels.

In my family's house there is a mirror in the kitchen over the sink that I would notice my dad staring into on occasion. As I grew up there I watched how I matured day-to-day in that mirror as I passed through the kitchen. Then one day I came to realize that dad wasn't looking at his face, he was looking at his self and asking: "Am I who I need to be?" "Am I doing what needs to be done?" "Am I right or wrong?" I knew it because at that moment I started asking myself the same questions.

Hearing that interview w/ Mr. Bacevich speaking about the state of the populace of the United States just rang through so true to me and should inspire Americans to take a good hard look in the mirror too.

This was a profound interview. I will read the Col. B's book! I viewed Bill M's interview the day the Dow dipped 777 points. I think the interview and a long "look in the mirror" provided the most significant reason to panic...

It's very hard for us to hear that we, the American people, for various reasons, are a part of a systemic problem. Hyper-Consumption, entitlement, international arrogance, corporate hegemony etc...
Col Bacevich, (who lost a son to the wasteful needless Iraq war) with his incredibly well-spoken, thoughtful discourse, has given us a much needed kick in the ass toward realization. The fundamental point that change won't happen unless we actually stand up and do something will not go away. If we can bare to listen we will be well instructed.

That unrealistic sense of entitlement that we Americans feel (connecting back in history to the "Promised land theology" and Manifest destiny,) has led us to believe that it's ok to spend our resources like mad, (oil, food, land, forests, lives of soldiers) that it's ok to send the kids to war to defend some abstract notion of "National Security". We don't have a grasp of history and our relation to it, so Americans have little idea how not to behave with the flare of entitled adolescents.
This interview, Moyers and Bacevich knocked me over. In a media world full of fluffy pundits and mediocre intellects, the combination of these two intense thinkers was greatly rewarding even as it brought me to tears. Thank You PBS and Bill Moyers!

America LISTEN!

Well said.. totally agree with Bacevich.

Bacevich's facts are true, but his interpretation of those facts, no matter how plausible, is conjectural. Rather than cheerlead for Bacevich, Mr. Moyers might have offered alternative plausible interpretations. That is, Moyers might have been scientific rather than uncritical. Are the politicians just giving the American people what they want, as Bacevich claims, or are they, along with the big corporations, manipulating the people to want what they want? Why? Because by hyper-growing GDP, the government can get away with unheard of debt, and the corporations make unheard of profits. While the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, Bacevich blames the victim.

Great show....refreshing...so true.
What about saving the struggeling homeowners that were conned into these risky loans, and fine the originators. Investors that took out more than one of these loans are on their own!! To get the money for the refinancing, offer bonds or notes paying a good interest, tax free, up to 150,000.00 per taxpayer, to us taxpayers as a safe place to invest our retirements.
Who is going to put up the money for the 700 billion dollar loan? At what interest? Let the people of the United States invest in them.
Then clean up the mess....let the hedgefunds finance wall street.
A real campaign finance reform bill would help too!

Petition against Wall Street Bailout at http://www.nowallstreetbailout.com/ (as shown on C-SPAN's Washington Journal program on Sunday, September 28, 2008).

By the way, 60 Minutes interviewed the Treasury Secretary and stated that he's worth $500 Million. Care to guess who's behind he's trying to cover? He cannot be there for the fame or the money, so I can only surmise that he's there for the Have's to take from the Have Nots.

What a tragedy for the American citizen...

Vince Wilyard,
Thanks for the comprehensive post.
I think we have an unresponsive government that is going to self-destruct no matter how many buses we stuff.
We are all in the same bus going down the same road and it will take a major change of route to get to where we want to go.
We need to regain control of the government by the people. It will be necessary to wean the government of industrial control. It will be necessary to remove lobby ists from congress and use government funds to support elections. Candidates will be only those who are qualified to lead this country successfully. We can not afford more incompetent leadership. The citizens will have to curb their appetites and behave responsibly. Economics will have to be based on the efficient exchange of goods and services with both a trickle down and a trickle up economy to maintain both buying power and selling power. We need to regain truthful communications and moral principle consistent with people's best interests.
These things would be consistent with the welfare of industry and the welfare of citizens.
The alternative is death and destruction.

There are some thing I agree with Mr Bacevich with and some things I don't. For instance on an Armed Forces "draft". I absolutly believe that we should have one. For one, what we have now is a merceny army that is serving the power interests, money and power wise in America. It's an abomination what Bush and company have done to theseour brother and sister Americans and their familys. If our system was a mandatory draft,where the congressman and women could have their children called up as well, they might think a little harder before "approving a war". Furtheremore, even the Vietnam conflict I believe the resistance to men wanting to go to what appeared " and rightly so" to a senseless conflict-seems kinda similar to what we have now in IRAQ, was able to finally shut down the war. There is no such safety valve in the current mercenary situation. And let me tell you mercy is what these poor son of a guns of our soldiers are going to need, now and in the immediate future. This is only one area which I disagree with Mr B., there are many other ones but I take it in the future one at a time.

I do agree with the assessment in part because he addresses the problem for the most part.

The materialism and self centered or greed approach to America was a lament made even made by the founders because of the wide spectrum of the so-called Christian values.

The lament was the Christian traditional values that allowed the free thinking and free will of man to fluctuate or 'sin' on these values. The lament in detail was the justice for all and how to attain it.

Many of the country's leaders wrote or voiced this sentiment. Lincoln was strong on this lament and for one on the Dread Scot decision.

There was always a check and balance that let the America sway back and forth or traditionally mediated from the wrong interpretations of either side. It was not until the 20th century when the Warren Court threw out precedent and put feelings and psychology into the legal system thereby offsetting the balance and sway of the court.

You see this in the change from the pseudo Christian America to the secular or humanist values we have today. Mediation of the values was one sided and made truly neutral to allow values to be redefined to any ones' even evil values that seek to destroy.

This change and humanist occupied government was noted and explained by many of the traditional value organizations but they were ridiculed because of this sway of power and the materialistic attitude of the boomer generation. These of the Me generation powered with humanist psychology able to persuade the America through the courts to redefine these values.

The pseudo Christian America faded away, there was a brief wake up during the moral majority years but they went to snooze thereafter and put asleep in the 90s.

This change in America was incremental steps that started from the justice system allowing the liberalization of the American way of life.

The pseudo Christian America allowed a true melting pot of persons that came here like the legal immigrants before them to be part of the melting pot and not the hyphenated diverse and segmented societies we have now in America.

That is one reason that supports with Bacevich's statements that only part of America is fighting this so called global war that was created by an imperialistic government.

I disagree with him about SEATO treaty of RVN and his assessment that the Reagan Administration is part of the imperialistic government.

There are fine defining lines that separate actions that are in support of the Constitution and self interests.

We had since WWI an agricultural industrial commercial military complex that was converted to a military industrial complex that changed in the latter half of the 20th century, but these are issues that contribute to the topic because as Bacevich stated a multifaceted complex scenario. To the point it is the matter of right and wrong and who defines it. When traditional values are almost illegal and we have a humanist occupied government, it is those in power that have the pharaohs of justice able to redefine actions to fit their needs.

It will take many years to correct our situation and it is not the need of change, but the need to restore the traditional moral values this country espoused and maintained prior to the secular psychological rulings that destroyed the American melting pot.

Grady, about that march on Washington on 1-20-2009. How about this: A One Million Bus Convoy on Washington on that "special" day. Realistically we could probably get hundreds of busses into Washington D.C. if we were lucky. This would send a clear message that "We the People" are expecting real change and reforms, and quite quickly I might add.

To everyone posting and reading, I would like to posit a scenario that we would not like to find ourselves a part of in the next few years.

Multi-national banks dominating and manipulating our currency. Remember Germany when their money became worthless? Who came to power? Why? Once Germany fell into deep depression its people became desperate. They were willing to do anything to restore their national prominence, power, and wealth. They did just that. But their economy was based on a Military-Industrial Complex. This complex fueled a resurgence of capitalism controlled by industrialization vis a vis militarization. But it got people working again. They picked a scapegoat for their problems, and they started invading other countries.

Does anyone see or understand the parallels in our current set of dilemmas. We have a weakened currency due to an every expanding debt. Hubris has put us into over one hundred countries. Overconsumption has pushed our reliance on foreign energy sources to dangerously addictive levels. We have a presidential candidate who keeps pushing the same kind of fear mongering his current party leader in office has been helping to fuel through bad foreign policy.

We have no national security reason to be in Georgia. None. We have no national security reason to be in Iraq. None. So called "islamo-facists" have become the "greedy Jews" of our time. They have become the scapegoat / diversion to / from our foreign policy of interference in the name of "national interest". Iraq and Afghanistan are not the 51st and 52nd states my fellow Americans.

However, the saber rattling continues from the white house on through to the campaign trail. Meanwhile, private and personal finances continue to weaken. Banks, businesses, and institutions are failing on a regular basis. How long will it take before our currency is depressed to the point that is virtually worthless? Then it won't matter how much you earn. If people are perpetually working, then they have no time to question how we got to this point, never mind how we can change course.

Should our system go bankrupt, who would we turn to for leadership and guidance? When we cease to be a self-sufficient nation, who will manufacture our goods, grow our food, and build the arms necessary to defend ourselves as a free and united people?

So what am I getting at? Suppose that our system should fail. Then what? Who do we blame? Do we start blaming bogeymen in caves? Do we start blaming tyrants in Asia? That would be convenient, now wouldn't it? Then we could then justify building and basing our economy once again on a military-industrial system of capitalism. Who would complain? People would be working. A new currency would be invented to ensure the flow of goods, services, and of course arms manufacture to "defend our freedom". It would once again be patriotic to "go shopping", right? Fuel the economy while those in charge go get the "evil doers".

Does this read to be scary? It should. I hope that I am wrong. Unfortunately, corrupt governments always seem to find a way to convince the citizenry that those in charge are indispensable. Propaganda is strong even today. Now we must bail out faulty financial institutions while billionaires hide their windfall profits in foreign banks. And now the government, not the people, thinks that the only way to get this system back up and running again is to pump 3/4 of a TRILLION dollars into a system of finances so far removed from reality that it boggles the mind. But that is the point. By the time enough people figure out what went wrong, what is wrong, and what the real solutions are, the real criminals are back at the their schemes in some other form.

Free and responsible people do not need leaders. Leaders are for dictatorships and monarchies, two systems of government that our way of life is diametrically opposed to in every way imaginable. Those of us voting for other candidates hope to push those who claim to offer change in the just and ethical direction; because the other main campaign / philosophy seems to be on a one-way path to self-destruction.

I look forward to a meaningful reply.

Vince

Grady, about that march on Washington on 1-20-2009. How about this: A One Million Bus Convoy on Washington on that "special" day. Realistically we could probably get hundreds of busses into Washington D.C. if we were lucky. This would send a clear message that "We the People" are expecting real change and reforms, and quite quickly I might add.

To everyone posting and reading, I would like to posit a scenario that we would not like to find ourselves a part of in the next few years.

Multi-national banks dominating and manipulating our currency. Remember Germany when their money became worthless? Who came to power? Why? Once Germany fell into deep depression its people became desperate. They were willing to do anything to restore their national prominence, power, and wealth. They did just that. But their economy was based on a Military-Industrial Complex. This complex fueled a resurgence of capitalism controlled by industrialization vis a vis militarization. But it got people working again. They picked a scapegoat for their problems, and they started invading other countries.

Does anyone see or understand the parallels in our current set of dilemmas. We have a weakened currency due to an every expanding debt. Hubris has put us into over one hundred countries. Overconsumption has pushed our reliance on foreign energy sources to dangerously addictive levels. We have a presidential candidate who keeps pushing the same kind of fear mongering his current party leader in office has been helping to fuel through bad foreign policy.

We have no national security reason to be in Georgia. None. We have no national security reason to be in Iraq. None. So called "islamo-facists" have become the "greedy Jews" of our time. They have become the scapegoat / diversion to / from our foreign policy of interference in the name of "national interest". Iraq and Afghanistan are not the 51st and 52nd states my fellow Americans.

However, the saber rattling continues from the white house on through to the campaign trail. Meanwhile, private and personal finances continue to weaken. Banks, businesses, and institutions are failing on a regular basis. How long will it take before our currency is depressed to the point that is virtually worthless? Then it won't matter how much you earn. If people are perpetually working, then they have no time to question how we got to this point, never mind how we can change course.

Should our system go bankrupt, who would we turn to for leadership and guidance? When we cease to be a self-sufficient nation, who will manufacture our goods, grow our food, and build the arms necessary to defend ourselves as a free and united people?

So what am I getting at? Suppose that our system should fail. Then what? Who do we blame? Do we start blaming bogeymen in caves? Do we start blaming tyrants in Asia? That would be convenient, now wouldn't it? Then we could then justify building and basing our economy once again on a military-industrial system of capitalism. Who would complain? People would be working. A new currency would be invented to ensure the flow of goods, services, and of course arms manufacture to "defend our freedom". It would once again be patriotic to "go shopping", right? Fuel the economy while those in charge go get the "evil doers".

Does this read to be scary? It should. I hope that I am wrong. Unfortunately, corrupt governments always seem to find a way to convince the citizenry that those in charge are indispensable. Propaganda is strong even today. Now we must bail out faulty financial institutions while billionaires hide their windfall profits in foreign banks. And now the government, not the people, thinks that the only way to get this system back up and running again is to pump 3/4 of a TRILLION dollars into a system of finances so far removed from reality that it boggles the mind. But that is the point. By the time enough people figure out what went wrong, what is wrong, and what the real solutions are, the real criminals are back at the their schemes in some other form.

Free and responsible people do not need leaders. Leaders are for dictatorships and monarchies, two systems of government that our way of life is diametrically opposed to in every way imaginable. Those of us voting for other candidates hope to push those who claim to offer change in the just and ethical direction; because the other main campaign / philosophy seems to be on a one-way path to self-destruction.

I look forward to a meaningful reply.

Vince

A friend of mine once observed that the major Western cultural developments of the last few hundred years could be said to be religious democracy (epitomized by the Protestant reformation), followed by political democracy (epitomized by the establishment of the United States). If we continue this line of thought, then it is somewhat logical to conclude that the major challenge of our times is the establishment of economic democracy. The international imbalance of wealth between rich individuals and poor indiviiduals, between rich countries and poor countries, is practically beyond comprehension. If we address this issue, then many-- though not all-- of the corollary issues that have to do with trade, international debt, health care, education, racism and sexism will also be addressed.
The other major issue is the environment. We have seen recent, convincing evidence that the issues of economic democracy and environmental sustainability are the two biggest issues of our time. They are the ones that I would most like to see our leadership address. Currently the United States spearheads the problem in both of these areas; the question is, whether we can lead the world to solutions.

A draft is needed if we continue our current course. We are on a collision course with Russia over the Ukraine.
I agree with Bacevich that we do not need more troops but wiser foreign policy. Our Navy and Air Force are bigger than the Army can support. They could certainly attack Russia or China and do great damage, but boots on the ground is always needed.Then we could talk about MAD (mutual assured destruction). The size of our Air Force and Navy grew during Vietnam due to draft avoidance. I know people today that say they would rejoin Air Force or Navy but where turned down. I asked "did you try the Army", (after a few chuckles from bystanders) silence was the response.
The way to end temptation to flex military might is to reduce the Navy and Air Force drastically. The use of military force will be or undoing. We are not defending freedom we are imposing it and that is not freedom at all. This is tragic, I will guarantee that the Russian and Chinese will defend themselves with the same zeal we would.
I will end with his comments on the 1st Gulf War
"Politically, and strategically, the outcome of that war was far more ambiguous than people appreciated at the time. But nonetheless, the war itself was advertised as this great success, demonstrating that a new American way of war had been developed, and that this new American way of war held the promise of enabling the United States to exercise military dominion on a global basis in ways that the world had never seen.

The people in the Pentagon had developed a phrase to describe this. They called it, "full spectrum dominance." Meaning, that the United States was going to exercise dominance, not just capability, dominance across the full spectrum of warfare. And this became the center of the way that the military advertised its capabilities in the 1990s. That was fraud. That was fraudulent.

To claim that the United States military could demonstrate that kind of dominance flew in the face of all of history and in many respects, set us up for how the Bush Administration was going to respond to 9/11. Because if you believed that United States military was utterly unstoppable, then it became kind of plausible to imagine that the appropriate response to 9/11 was to embark upon this global war to transform the greater Middle East. Had the generals been more cognoscente of the history of war, and of the nature of war, then they might have been in a better position to argue to Mr. Rumsfeld, then the Secretary of Defense, or to the President himself, "Be careful." "Don't plunge ahead." Recognize that force has utility, but that utility is actually quite limited. Recognize that when we go to war, almost inevitably, there are going to be unanticipated consequences. And they're not going to be happy ones.

Above all, recognize that, when you go to war, it's unlikely there's a neat tidy solution. It's far more likely that the bill that the nation is going to pay in lives and in dollars is going to be a monumental one. My problem with the generals is that, with certain exceptions, one could name as General Shinseki, with certain exceptions-" Andrew Bacevich

Mr McCain listen to this West Point Grad, I bet he paid attention in class. You should have tried it. Jimmy Carter represented the Naval Academy well. Do the same!

I thought after writing my last that a political party formed to implement my list of six changes could accommodate both John Edwards and Andrew Bacevich.

However, there is a need for a larger goal which is to focus on fairness, whether in making changes on my list or any other part of our system. What I consider to be fair includes both fair concern for the less fortunate and fair reward for hard effort, risk taking, and talent.

Re John Edwards
(I am assuming it is the well known John Edwards.)
Might I suggest that your list is too long. It could be covered with a shorter list of more basic principles. Then we could concentrate on a few new laws that might be more carefully considered.

My list includes: (1)ending our attempt to dominate other countries, (2)educating our people so they are sensible voters and thus making democracy feasible, (3)ending corruption in government, (4)keeping religion out of government and government out of religion based issues, (5)providing for basic needs of everyone, and (6)re-establishing an industrial system.

Most of these are self explanatory, but the last one opens a number of complicated issues. Many of us have different ideas on these. Some proposals that seem to be technically sound do not seem so good when they are looked at closely. But if the other five basic principles are tended to, then we have a good chance of getting the new system we need.

Some examples of well intentioned acts that have been, or will turn out to be, mistakes: (1)Using our agricultural capacity to make ethanol as fuel for very inefficient vehicles. (2)Financing the auto industry to re-tool to make what they tell us are efficient hybrid or plug-in hybrid vehicles, where it appears that the plug-in craze is mostly going to end up in shifting from oil to coal as the fuel source, and again, the guzzling goes on.

Thanks for reading my thoughts.
Best regards, Jim Bullis

Andrew Basevich has an understanding and insight into the current state of affairs in the United States which exceeds by light years that of the two current candidates for President. The solution would encompass a grass routes effort via the internet to name Mr. Basevich as a write-in for the office of President of the United States of America. This effort would be predicated on two preconditions. First would Mr. Basevich be willing to serve. The second is how many states have a position on the ballot for a write-in candidate. What say you Mr. Basevich?

Any experts out there with the knowledge to answer the second question?

Petition against Wall Street Bailout at http://www.nowallstreetbailout.com/

First, I was surprised and amazed that I agreed with almost everything Mr. Bacevich asserted. Maybe my efforts to be independent objective are finally paying off..

Here's my take on the current situation:

Bush and Wall St. want a "top-down" solution, as ever. What is needed is a "bottom-up" fix. The big boys have problems w/ loan defaults. People are loosing their houses. Help those people who are deserving pay their mortgages and big boys' problem will go away.

Give people jobs, education, health care. Then they will be able to afford their mortgages. Fix the infrastructure and give people jobs in the process. Invest in America. Invest in education. Infrastructure, jobs, education, health care are all investments that will provide valuable returns both to individuals and society.

End the war. NOW!

Go full ahead with solar based energy - it's the only resource that will still be available in 300+ years, in 1000+ years. Every penny we invest now will return many many times over after a few hundred years. Plus, solar can become cleanest most sustainable energy source available, if it's ever adequately funded...

The problem with solar is it is egalitarian - the sun shines on everybody. The opportunity for Big Money to make Big Profits (like the oil companies are doing) by controlling the supply doesn't exist.

Withholding education, energy, health care, credit, etc. and spiraling inflation is a tool used by those on top to keep those at the bottom of the economic pyramid there forever.

Institute a plan to conserve valuable natural resources for future generations: Our children's children's children at minimum.

Do not reward the few big boys for screwing-up as astronomically as they have. Put it where it will do the greatest good for the greatest number.

The US needs a multi-party system where sensible people like Ralph Nader and Ron Paul can contribute and make a difference -- put and end to RepubliCrat totalitarianism!

Thanks for the opportunity to express myself!

Humbly Submitted for Your Consideration,

rj

The first thing we need to do is to select a panel of experts on social structure. The second thing we need to do is reconstruct our economics to support a quality life style for our people and to support our social structure. The third thing we need to do is put people to work reconstructing our infra-structure based on efficiency and quality life.
We also need to elect a vice-president who is an expert on social structure and put him in charge of running the country. Then we need to elect a popular president who can inspire good works.
The Judicial Branch should be free from politics and the Supreme Court Members voted in by the people.
Anything short of that will be a failure.

We have had to date two Bush's in the White House. One wonders if either knew there was a country out there...

The law is slow moving, almost glacial, but one wouldn't want to be on the wrong end of the glacier. We will need to wait 30 years for a correction.

I think it may be time to start a new political party. The country may be ready for this.
The party will need to appeal across the spectrum.
It would be 'Change with a Difference' and 'Yes, We Should!'
First we need to wait for Obama's victory in November, then begin a grassroot effort.
The platform might include:
No more foreign adventures
Energy independence by 2012
Regulatory control of credit policies
Respect for our freedoms
Reigning in of presidential powers
Educational initiatives re Choice
Discouraging Outsourcing abroad
Opening Dialogues w Foreign States
through finding common ground
Respect for Abortion Concerns
Support for Small Business
Labeling products re carbon emission
Health care for all
Overhaul of government waste
Promote international cooperation
on 'terror as criminal activity'
Promote local business/farming
Restore US as a moral leader
Insist on more international support
in Afghanistan
Insist on Iraqi govt assuming financial
and military responsibility with firm
timetable of withdrawal
Encourage EU expansion, not NATO,
for states near Russia
Convince Russia we mean peace
Stop increase in drilling for oil, unless
combined with rapid development of
alternative energies - not nuclear
Strengthen the UN
Stop adversarial international politics
Increase minimum wage
Encourage two-way trade, control
incoming flood of cheap goods
Support families and early childhood
education
Support gun ownership while
tightening control on automatic
weapons
Focus on hunger and homelessness in
in the US
Help inner city social problems
Fund speeded up security against
criminal terrorism - boost FBI

I'm curious how many people would join together to work out such a platform for a new party.
I'm ready to start something.
Thanks for reading this.
John

How about this?? Instead of being sworn in with a hand on a Bible the next President have his hand on Col. Baceivich's Book "The Imperial Presidency"? This could be and should be read and discussed like Thomas Paine's "Common Sense" in American pre-revolutionary era. Thanks again Bill Moyers for your intelligent, thoughtful and insightful interviews with the most lucid and interesting people. I am never disappointed but always engaged and become more curious. You are the best excuse for having a television set even if i still have an old black and white with tin foil on my rabbit ear antenna. PBS is all i need. Much Thanks.

Not only have we been asked not to sacrifice we are not involved at all. What percentage of the American people can find Iraq on the map? 5% 2% Quite sad.

My only criticism is with his notion that our government produces an economic system that reflects the desires of the people. To me that's similar to the old saying about people only wanting Model T Fords in the color black so that's all Ford produced.

It's not the people, but rather corporate America whose demands / desires are reflected in the economic system produced by our government.

Let's be honest it's all about money in D.C. Another name for it is bribery; you can buy what you want if you have enough money and know the right people. Who is it that's spending all that money in D.C.?? It's not "we the people"!

Most people I know would much rather do the right thing, and would prefer to do all the right things as a nation. We could march a million people to D.C. and it would be ignored by the government and the mainstream media.

Other than that I agreed with just about everything he had to say. Maybe he would make a great Secretary of Defense? Or head of the DOE?

Assuming (as you suggest) our current war to be misguided:
What motivates our youth to continue to support a volunteer military?
Why should this volunteerism be encouraged, supported, or rewarded?

In the Vietnam-era song "Christmas in my soul", the late, great singer/songwriter Laura Nyro sings: "I love my country as it dies in war and pain before my eyes." These lyrics came to mind upon reading some viewers' response to Professor Bacevich's trenchant and sobering analysis of where the United States finds itself today. Although Barack Obama is functioning within the current political and electoral structure, and is therefore its captive, I believe that if elected he has the insight, intention, and capacity to start to repair the damage. From Washington to Lincoln to FDR, a truly great president has appeared on the scene at a critical juncture every 64 to 68 years. Let's hope and pray the pattern holds.

My husband and I turned the channel to watch Bill Moyers and were so moved, by the conversation I had to post a comment. Mr. Bacevich is a man of intellect, a man of wisdom and genius. If both of the presidential candidates were to read this Mr. Bacevich's book it would change the whole debate and the whole election. I am now about to go and purchse the book and pass it on. I hope many people do the same. How blessed we are to have an American like Mr. Bacevich.

My husband and I turned the channel to watch Bill Moyers and were so moved, by the conversation I had to post a comment. Mr. Bacevich is a man of intellect, a man of wisdom and genius. If both of the presidential candidates were to read this Mr. Bacevich's book it would change the whole debate and the whole election. I am now about to go and purchse the book and pass it on. I hope many people do the same. How blessed we are to have an American like Mr. Bacevich.

Dear Mr. Bacevich and friends:
I am very grateful to find that there are indeed many American citizens who really can look at themselves honestly. For us, who observe you from outside, and have to work with you from within, often recognize the tacit traits, which were eloquently explicated by Mr. Bacevich. Every nation on the earth has a similar problem. Arrogance of entitlement, complacency, and narcissism, etc, frequently blinds us all with a façade of nationalism and patriotism. Frightening reality is that United States has been so big that her blindness has cost countless grievances in the world. The way American citizens vote for their leader always has its consequence, and especially for the last 8 years, we helplessly witnessed its repercussions with a horror. Freedom and Power necessitates Responsibility and Humility. I pray that every American citizen can find a courage and means to cultivate wisdom and understanding, so that the United States can be more responsible and humble to exercise her power and freedom.

Dear Mr. Bacevich and friends:
I am very grateful to find that there are indeed many American citizens who really can look at themselves honestly. For us, who observe you from outside, and have to work with you from within, often recognize the tacit traits, which were eloquently explicated by Mr. Bacevich. Every nation on the earth has a similar problem. Arrogance of entitlement, complacency, and narcissism, etc, frequently blinds us all with a façade of nationalism and patriotism. Frightening reality is that United States has been so big that her blindness has cost countless grievances in the world. The way American citizens vote for their leader always has its consequence, and especially for the last 8 years, we helplessly witnessed its repercussions with a horror. Freedom and Power necessitates Responsibility and Humility. I pray that every American citizen can find a courage and means to cultivate wisdom and understanding, so that the United States can be more responsible and humble to exercise her power and freedom.

Mr.Bacevich I was watching the debate last night,but got bored so I turned the channel to pbs,and the longer I listen the more I liked listening to you,and I have one question, why are you not running for president? you know more about what to do than the two that are running, and god help us all if either one of them get it. and that's one reason that I want be voting this year,because neither one has said anything that makes any sense but listening to you I think you have your head in the right place.So what do you say about running for president? Maybe there's still time to save this country.Please think about it. I would vote for you and so would alot of people,you can count on it. we're begging you to save us. thank you and may god have mercy on our souls.

The escalation and reward of Greed and consumption as moral endeavors in this country have induced a blind and mindless stupor that has made us forget where we came from and who we are. Like church and state - money and state need to be separate. Unless we face the mirror, and as individuals work to stop lobbyists, corporate contributions, PACS and other corrosive monetary influence, we will truly see the end of democracy.

Having watched last nights programme I have to admit Bacevich is right on more fronts than N.Americans would like to admit. There is not much can be done about a over exploited citizen who all their life has been told 'This is the Greatest Country' and 'You deserve all there is to get out of life' and 'Gov. should stay out of your business' and American corporations and military will rape, pillage and plunder other countries for the goods and services that N.Americans need to keep up this pretense. But, no one told N.Americans the ..vast corporate/political avarice... it would take to accomplish this.

Mr. Bacevich,
You are in great pain. I feel your pain. I to am in great pain. We live in a society that breeds pain. I love my country and I am blessed, but I fear it could end at any time. I don't want anyone to suffer, especially my children, family, and friends. I don't want to see one American, Human, or gods creations suffer needlessy. I'm sorry for your sons needless murder.

I believe there are simple solutions. But they require great sacrifice. Our biggest obstacle is us of course. As you stated, each of us must be willing to look in the mirror and accept our social mistakes. We live on this incredible planet that takes care of all of our needs, but most of us refuse to fulfill taking care of an internal need that we are obligated to fulfill: Returning the Favor. We are obligated to take take of our planet, but instead we turn our back on Mother Earth. This is the root of our pain. We must take care of our planet and all its living beings. WE MUST TAKE CARE OF EACH OTHER. What a crazy idea! It just might work?

Think of a tree and it's relationship to earth. The tree ask for some soil and water. In return the tree provides shelter, food, shade, purifies the air we all need, and gives life to countless species. In return it asks for some dirt and warter. Instead of modeling our own behaviors after the noble tree we instead try to slaughter the whole species.

We need to become part of our ecosystem instead of destroying all of our ecosystems.

We have the answers, we know what we must do to turn this world around. We must sacrifice our current lifestyles for the survival of life. For some this is great sacrifice. For others this is common sense. Can we meet in the middle?

WE MUST TAKE CARE OF EACH OTHER.

Yes, I agree with his assessment. No, I don't believe we can fix it because government is merely a reflection of it's people. This country is devoid of any saving grace. We don't care about anything
but going shopping and if it comes from child slave labor, so be it. If this wasn't the case then how come Walmart is still in business? Where is the outrage? I rest my case. When I see a national boycott of Walmart then I'll believe there is hope for america.

Yes, I agree with his assessment. No, I don't believe we can fix it because government is merely a reflection of it's people. This country is devoid of any saving grace. We don't care about anything
but going shopping and if it comes from child slave labor, so be it. If this wasn't the case then how come Walmart is still in business? Where is the outrage? I rest my case. When I see a national boycott of Walmart then I'll believe there is hope for america.

A point Mr. Bacevich made about the imperial presidency being the people's choice rather than something imposed upon us really hit home. Earlier in the evening the BBC ran a short piece on the manner in which France operates its economy. There, you cannot employ a credit card to buy something you cannot afford. If you don't have the money in the bank, you cannot buy. Hence, France seems better able to withstand the shocks which are presently rippling through the markets.

This makes sense to me. I have always felt the onerous weight of debt, have never been able to wait till the end of the month to pay for things I want or need, so I have simply gone without. No credit cards for me. I don't point this out as a sign of superior wisdom - it has been a matter of reprieve from anxiety, and you can call me oldfashioned, antedeluvian even. Just the way I am. But in light of the inability of either presidential candidate last night to speak directly to us (and perhaps this was not the venue) about our profligacy, our personal, private or semiprivate profligacy, I would really like to see Mr. Moyers follow up on this point in future programs.

The American public needs to be weaned of its attitude towards ownership, because in a very real way that attitude extends and enlarges into an imperial attitude towards the world at large. And I think we are seeing that the world isn't going to put up with it much longer.

What each of us does in our own lives, in educating our children, will make a difference to the country we become as we deal with this crisis.

Great interview, Mr. Moyers.

After watching this interview, the previous presidential debate seemed such an exercise in futility.

Mr. Bacevich’s expressed thoughts that I'd been keeping supressed in the back of my mind. I have a sixteen and a twelve year old and these thoughts are frightening.

Everyone should by two of these books: one for yourself, and one for your congressional representative.

Mr. Bacevich, if you were to run for office, I would vote for you. Not that I think you're a savior of some sort. It's that one who speaks the truth and has sacrificed for his country as much as you have would be able to lead better than all "leader" I've yet seen.
May peace be with you and all of us.

Mr. Bacevich speaks the truth. I feel we live in a false economy that breeds materialism in the hopes we will stay content and docile and not disturb the aministration that rapes the world of its riches so the few can control the masses. We've been sold a bill of goods that is passed from one generation to the next. Who is truly happy! Its refreshing to know that someone gets it! The solution is: Stop settling for the BULL! We need to build our movement and unite all that understand that we cannot afford to continue this way of life or we will perish, or even worse be dominated. It is time for total sacrifice from all Americans if we want to preserve true freedom. Giving up our stupid, materialistic, toxic lifestyles is a responsiblity we must all share. Our time is here. Can we afford to wait any longer. It is time to clean house. Again, we need to make extreme sacrifices and endure these extremes for the survival of our beautiful country. Start with throuwing away your television, and then your car. Start riding a bicycle, and then plant a garden. Lead by example, clean thine house, and others will follow. There are no easy answers, but there are plenty of simple solutions if we are willing to sacrifice for beatiful America.

I'm no writer. Just a simple person willing to sacrifice. I want a society in which the basic core principle is: TAKE CARE OF EACH OTHER.

Capitolism = Greed = Selfish = Evil = Painful Demise

Why can't we just take care of each other? Like a family takes care of each other. Like a team takes care of each other. Can society maintain if we don't learn to act as a community that cares for each other?

I repeat my comment here below from this repeat of an earlier broadcast since nothing has changed except we are now in the final throes of a dying United States Republic from its planned financial disintegration and final takeover of the government by the corporations. After exhaustive research and much critical thinking as to the truth of 9/11/2001 and reading the past issues and watching and listening to all of the videos and webcasts at http://www.larouchepac.org/
http://www.larouchepub.com/eirtoc/index.html
http://www.larouchepub.com/eiw/ I can only conclude our United States Republic as established by our founding fathers in order to get away from the tyranny of aristocratic and oligarchic Anglo-Dutch Liberal financial control through financial looting has this one last chance to survive IF We the People can force the Congress to force a bankruptcy onto the financiers rather than the financiers forcing the bankruptcy onto us by passing the Homeowners and Bank Protection Act of 2008 then establish a new world financial system with an FDR intended Bretton Woods Agreemeent even at the risk of Bush declaring matial law.

US Army Colonel Andrew J. Bacevich has detailed the symptoms of the disease that has inflicted the Republic of The United States of America, however his recommendations only address and treat those symptoms rather than the disease itself.

Anyone who has opened there eyes and done their own research into the truth about the events of 9/11/2001 KNOWS 9/11 was not a surprise attack on America by Islamo-fascists, but an inside job orchestrated by fascist criminal elements inside the US government to justify the launching of continuing multiple wars throughout the globe. However, many if not most of those people refuse to talk about it openly for “political” reasons. Therefore, Iraq was not a mistake. Iraq was just one more well planned and executed “chaotic” step in the "right" direction of global empire building and eventually intended to lead to the ultimate demise of the Nation State including The United States of America whereby a small faction of global financial elites will ultimately rule the world from the top down and "democracy" will only exist for the very few at the top as it did in ancient Greece rather than for the majority of the people and for their "general welfare" as was intended for the latter by the founding fathers and stated in the Preamble of the US Constitution as follows:

“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

The ONLY prescription for treating the disease that inflicts our republic and to preserve democracy as the founding fathers intended is rather quite simple however it's enactment quite bloody for the controlling financial elites. Return to The American System of Political Economy as the founding fathers intended and throw off completely and without compromise the chains of the “British” Oligarchic (read privatization) System of Colonial Empire Building and Central Private Banking that has been systematically foisted back upon this country by “Tories” found both inside and outside of our government and private industries. It has been this latter “British” Adam Smith Private Central Banking System (read Corporatism as in the pure Mussolini form of Fascism with its complete control of the mainstream media and continuing dissemination of propaganda) that has allowed private financiers to control governments and armies including our own (of which people like US Army Colonel Andrew J. Bacevich and his deceased son were members) and continually provoke wars in their ( the financial elites) interests and not for the general welfare of the people and the peoples sovereign state.

Eisenhower warned us in 1961 in his “farewell” speech about the forces behind the curtain, the military-industrial-(congressional) complex that if allowed to continue to consolidate its power would eventually come to influence and control all aspects of economic, political, scientific, and even spiritual aspects of American life.

We are there NOW. Where is our General Smedley D. Butler? Colin Powell squandered his chance.

Less than fifty days from the election, I hope Obama and McCain are willing to spend some time watch this program and to read Bacevich's book. I also hope that Jim Lehrer can watch the interview, read the book, and relate some of his questions to the book. Can anyone help.
I do not think that I will voate for either McCain or Obama, period.

Bill, I watched tonight with great interest, vast agreement, then with eventual shame, to your guest, Mr. Bacevich. Tonight he gave, us, the American average citizen a mirror into which to look...unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, I looked. He also gave us a well deserved spanking, which we Baby Boomers seem to need. I have seen the error of my ways, because I see now, that I have been duplicitous (thank you, spell check) in checking out on the obligations of the average citizen to it's country, it's people, it's military, it's constitution, and it's dreams. My question to you Bill, and it is a quite serious one...WHAT DO I DO NOW? A single vote no longer does any good...a phone call? nada....You have done a very good job, tonight of showing the error of my ways, but how do I take back what I gave away so complacently. This is my frustration. Can you at least give me a hint?
Thank you,
Rene

Andrew Bacevich and Bill Moyer=chilling view of America: our way of life is not negotiable-means we are locked into a death spiral
Bacevich: to send young Americans back repeatedly into Iraqi is not supporting the troops... it is a civic irresponsibility shared by all americans
In essence, there is no difference between Obama and McCain. It remains an imperial presidency drunk on it's own power
it is a dream that America's way of life can transform the world into a better place-Hah! Export financial meltdown, oil dependency, palin
The American dream, what'd that guy say? The Air-conditioned nightmare?!?!?!
Krishnamurti: What good does it do to be healthy in a sick society? To be healthy means to wake up from the dream, no?
The sheep look up
it was a very chilling interview, moved me to tears of rage

Thank you so much for this program..it cannot be said enough that this country is in serious trouble. We have lost our way.

The framers designed this country to work from the bottom up not the top down.
The federal government has become the IMPERIAL government.

Bacevich is right. The problem is here!!
Until we as an electorate recognize that we have allowed our state legislatures and state governments to abdicate to this Imperial federal government.
I don't things are going to change, unless we are willing to demand accountability beginning in our States and fight for reasonable rational government.

There is an old expression

Ones first obligation is to their family, the second to their community, the third to their state and region, and finally to their country.

It is not the "Governments"
fault..it is ours as a people we have turned away from our communities and looked to the Imperial Government to do the right thing.
Unfortunately we are beginning to see what are indifference has created and the ugly reflection of what we have become.

After watching Bacevich on Bill Moyers a few weeks back, I emailed many friends and relatives and told them to watch this interview if it should be repeated. Up to that point, I had never heard of Bacevich, let alone read any of his books. After watching the re-broadcast this evening, I am now of the opinion that the best person for the job of President is not on the ballot. Bacevich displays a level of common sense, insight, knowledge, truthfulness, integrity, and credibility that is sorely missing in our elected representitives today.

Taxpayers...spread em wide

Besides reaming out the taxpayer by saddling them with the $700 billion rip off - I heard that the average taxpayer will be paying an increase to their tax bill of about $700 to $800 a year to fund clean and renewable energy once these plans kick in.

Another issue for the taxpayer. All these mega financial institutions that are being created by emergency mergers will be way too big to ever let fail. When these institutions run into hard times where will the gov turn for their bailout...the taxpayer.

Political sickness can be summed up with this last tidbit...

Original Paulson plan = 3 pages in length.

Democratic revision of Paulson plan = 44 pages in length

Republican revision of democratic revision of Paulson plan = 104 pages in length

Public Radio sources.

Taxpayers...spread em wide

Besides reaming out the taxpayer by saddling them with the $700 billion rip off - I heard that the average taxpayer will be paying an increase to their tax bill of about $700 to $800 a year to fund clean and renewable energy once these plans kick in.

Another issue for the taxpayer. All these mega financial institutions that are being created by emergency mergers will be way too big to ever let fail. When these institutions run into hard times where will the gov turn for their bailout...the taxpayer.

Political sickness can be summed up with this last tidbit...

Original Paulson plan = 3 pages in length.

Democratic revision of Paulson plan = 44 pages in length

Republican revision of democratic revision of Paulson plan = 104 pages

Public Radio sources.

Since it is not easy to find the previosly posted discussions, I need to clarify my last. I am not referring to automobiles like we drive today. Rather, a whole new approach to the car is appropriate. And this is possible.

Jack Martin and Grady Lee Howard would be better as President and VP than McCain and Palin. They would understand history of our country, what is important, and would represent the needs of everyone. As far as world affairs is concerned, choosing Palin was one bold stroke by McCain that showed he placed very little value on his own experience since he is willing to leave us with someone who is without anything remotely similar to that of himself. But McCain and Palin are well positioned to be elected homecoming king and queen.

Since Jack and Grady might be a little rough on the system, and things could get a bit primitive, Obama might be better. He seems to have skills that would better keep our financial system pumping along. Maybe that would buy us time to get a few more basic parts of our system in order.

My list includes (1)ending our attempt to dominate other countries, (2)educating our people so they are sensible voters and thus making democracy feasible, (3)ending corruption in government, (4)keeping religion out of government and government out of religion based issues, (5)providing for basic needs of everyone, and (6)re-establishing an industrial system.

I have discussed the last of these in previous posts. Jack and Grady have not completely agreed with my view that automobiles are desirable and that everyone should have one. Jack has recognized that by building innovative products, we could actually get industry moving. I add that the problem with the financial community is that there is not much industrial revitalization going on for them to finance.

But I want to also note that there should be a strong profit motive (not an absurd one) left in place, and that when I say basic needs, I do not mean free video games. And that it is ok to rely on experienced and educated people to call the shots.

The first thing we need to do is to select a panel of experts on social structure. The second thing we need to do is reconstruct our economics to support a quality life style for our people and to support our social structure. The third thing we need to do is put people to work reconstructing our infra-structure based on efficiency and quality life.
We also need to elect a vice-president who is an expert on social structure and put him in charge of running the country. Then we need to elect a popular president who can inspire good works.
The Judicial Branch should be free from politics and the Supreme Court Members voted in by the people.
Anything short of that will be a failure.

Let's have a big REALITY CHECK! Congress is broken. The Constitutional checks and balances that we used to have are gone. Congress no longer works for "we the people" but rather for big corporations. We've had 8 years of lies and deceit by those in charge. The entire system reeks of rampant lies and colusion, while the majority of us continue to struggle--just to make ends meet. It is an outrage to think that American citizens should have to bail out the fraudsters, banksters, all the crooks of Wall Street, and all the rich who are pulling the strings in the US Shadow Government. The US needs a cleansing. It needs to be cleaned out as the Augean Stables were in ancient Greek myth!

Let's have a big REALITY CHECK! Congress is broken. The Constitutional checks and balances that we used to have are gone. Congress no longer works for "we the people" but rather for big corporations. We've had 8 years of lies and deceit by those in charge. The entire system reeks of rampant lies and colusion, while the majority of us continue to struggle--just to make ends meet. It is an outrage to think that American citizens should have to bail out the fraudsters, banksters, all the crooks of Wall Street, and all the rich who are pulling the strings in the US Shadow Government. The US needs a cleansing. It needs to be cleaned out as the Augean Stables were in ancient Greek myth!

Brenda Johnston-Sept. 3, 2008-11:48pm: The Continental Congress did not write or ratify the Constitution. An elite of landowners, slave holders, land speculators, bond holders and merchants sent representatives to a convention ostensibly to amend the Articles of Confederation. When the document that suited this elite was fully drafted a minority (of the wealthier men in each state) ratified it by a hurried vote. There was resistance from small holders, mechanics and some professionals but people in the interior never knew it had occurred until months later. The most caring and astute sponsors demanded the new Congress sponsor the Bill of Rights and other amendments, some of which did not pass or were never ratified by the states. Under one which guaranteed adequate representation in Congress there now would be over 5,000 representatives holding office because of increased population.
The whole country then had a population about like a smaller state (Alaska or Montana) so you see it wasn't that hard for a savvy elite to impose a Constitution favoring their interests. A few people ran everything, kind of like Alaska today, and it was very self-serving. The two prime movers were Alexander Hamilton (Federalist) and James Madison(Demo-republican), so you see we already had a one party state. Everyone sweated in the city summers back then (no A/C) so that's not such a big deal. When Thomas Jefferson returned from revolutionary France after Washington was elected he was shocked at the elite coup, but he adjusted and took full advantage of the new rulebook. So it is no surprise today, Brenda Johnson, that we have a wealthy elite that owns and runs everything in a sham democracy (pluto-oligarchy). So don't invoke myths of a never was, ask why things are not getting better.

Our system - while it has gotten quite out off balanced (the tail wagging the dog, so to speak) is not too far gone. At least I hope as much. We need someone to step up and challenge the status quo. With everything that I read where people are upset by the current state of political affairs in this country, I believe that a true grassroots campaign could work (sorry Obama, $300M - to me - does not sound like a "grassroots" campaign). We need a genuine president, who can stand up to congress (who do the actual heavy lifting) and smack some sense into them so that - maybe - they will actually do the job that they were hired to do. There is a great deal wrong with this country...but I believe that it can still be set right.

The Continental Congress spent their valuable time in hot, uncomfortable quarters forging a democracy that would free us from the tyranny of imperialistic rule. Yet now, every four years we go to the polls to elect what can only be called a king (one day a queen)...one who wields unlimited power to make all the decisions about our lives. And then within months, we complain that he is not doing a good job as we sit back watching it all on our TVs. You cannot "elect" a king! We, unlike many in the world, are able to elect key components of our government to ensure the checks and balances that bring about decisions for the common good. And then we have ways to make them respond to us. But, you can't "phone it in". The president and his cabinet are only part of our form of government. Do you know those running for the legislative branch? Do you know about the local races? And do you understand that pulling the lever is not the end of your responsibility to Democracy? I celebrate the sheer size of the numbers engaged, for the first time in forever, wanting to be involved in the process (now if we could just make them think). Bush and his cabal did not subvert the Constitution, rob the treasury and leave the country in near ruin alone...our complicity made it possible. In his book "Moyers on Democracy", Bill Moyers begins with: "Democracy in America is a series of narrow escapes, and we may be running out of luck." And time…tick-tock people.

Mr Bacevich's comments are a great follow up to compare along side a previous and frequent guest, Kathleen Hall Jamieson...notably her latest book Presidents Creating the Presidency.

Republicans are people who say to those whom they exploit, "I've got mine, the heck with you."

Yesterday I was chatting with the sweetest, gentlest woman in China and asked her what she thought about our government and conventions. She said “Bush is an idiot donkey.” What about Barack Obama? Her reply, “Isn’t he the man who wants more war?” I said “No, that is John McCain, Obama wants to stop the war.” She replied, “Oh, then that is the man who rides the donkey.”

It begins to make one see that others in the world have interesting views of America. One would say, if she was 6 y/o, ‘out of the mouths of babes’, but she is a 37 y/o elementary school teacher.

It takes two sides to lie; The liar and the believer. Simply blaming the gang of Bush and Cheney is just not honest, above all, it will not bring meaningful change.

The government has intimidated the media -- PBS and MOYERS included -- from covering the real issues of the 9/11/2001 terror attack.

Scientists and engineers around the world have volunteered their skills for the past 6 years to uncover strong evidence that "9/11" was a FALSE FLAG event most likely as a pretext for preemptive attacks on nations with oil resources.

The available, de-classified history of how the US government has used FALSE FLAG terror as a pretext to engage preemptive military action tells us that 9/11 is really nothing new except that 9/11 was the "Mother of False Flags" when the target of government sponsored terrorism was the murder of thousands of Americans and foreign nationals in the collapse of three (3) World Trade Center skyscrapers - an act of deliberate and premeditated destruction using controlled demolition to bring down each building at virtual free-fall speed.

KNOW YOUR HISTORY!

KNOW YOUR SCIENCE!

KNOW THAT NOTHING WILL EVER BE RIGHT... until a valid criminal investigation uncovers the TRUTH about just WHO sponsored 9/11.

By the way, the FBI has no evidence that Bin Laden was connected with 9/11.

Look it up on the 10 most wanted FBI site.

Mr. Moyers -- Do your duty and make this investigation a priority for your journal.

HWS
Fan of Smedley Butler

Can the imperial presidency be fixed? Yes, but only if there is the political will. Bush and Cheney are arguably the most impeachable President and Vice-President in the nation's history, yet House Speaker Nancy Pelosi declared impeachment "off the table." Why? It appears that the Democratic leadership figured that they have an excellent chance to gain the White House in 2008 and that to introduce impeachment proceedings would be an encumbrance. Never mind that the Bush Administration has authorized measures that violate our Constitution.

Right now, during the Democratic Convention, it is of course fair game to criticize the Administration for its mishandling of the economy and foreign policy, but it is off the table to imply, much less allege, that the President has authorized acts deemed criminal according to our Constitution. Significantly, when Senator Kucinach spoke at the Democratic Convention, the Obama Campaign redacted the following one liner, "They're [the Republicans] are asking for another four years; in a just world they'd get ten or twenty."

The judiciary, even the Supreme Court, has not been particularly effective in curbing the imperial (criminal in some instances) presidency because every time there is a ruling that limits presidential power, Bush has gone to the Congress to get a law passed that circumvents the court's ruling. This brings me back to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's statement that Impeachment is "off the table." It could be argued that Congress, Democrats and Republicans alike, has indirectly colluded with the President by voting for laws that legitimize and/or cover up the Administrations illegal authorizations.

Not long ago, I thought that a post election Truth Commission would in some measure set limits on Executive power and help to restore our democracy, but I now I doubt that the American people, much less the Congress, have the political will to investigate this recent chapter in our nation's history. Perhaps change will only take place when the American people decide not to let their democracy slip away from them.

I recall a wonderful NET Biography of Samuel Adams that featured this song sung by Judy Collins.

The Patriot Game

For the love of one's country
is a terrible thing.
It banishes fear
with the speed of a flame,
And it makes us all part
of the patriot game.
— Dominic Behan

Not quite, forty-one years ago, I witnessed a federal marshal thug beat the wife of a soldier, an Army medic from Indianapolis, at the Pentagon in Washington. My first visit to Washington and a police officer of the federal government beat that brave young woman while her husband risked his life in Vietnam for reasons that remain incomprehensible to me. That brutal image floods memory.

And our draft dodging president and vice-president repeated the folly.

Not quite, forty-one years ago, I witnessed a federal marshal thug beat the wife of a soldier, an Army medic from Indianapolis, at the Pentagon in Washington. My first visit to Washingon and a police officer of the federal government beat that brave young woman while her husband rish his life in Vietnam.

It floods memory.

Colonel, I just wanted to tell you that I really appreciate you for writing your book and giving that interview on PBS. I am currently a psychological operations sergeant in the army reserve, as well as a graduate student, and you expressed exactly how I think about the dynamic between the American people and our government. I first came to understand the military's use in projecting power in the support of economic objectives while I served as a young man in the active duty navy. The navy is the ultimate instrument of force projection around the world.
There is another dynamic that I believe drives U.S. policy, a belief in the global market system. While there is a belief in the Islamic world that all the problems of a nation can be solved if that nation or state embraced Islam and submitted to Sharia law, there is an equally comparable belief here concerning the power of the capital market system. That is, whatever ails a nation-state, whether it's a poor educational system, infrastructure, health care, human rights, etc... it can all be solved by plugging into the global capital free market and take part in free enterprise.
What is ironic is that China, a totalitarian regime, is the most successful capitalist market in the world, which seems to be ignored.
Both the west and the Middle East seem to cleave to these beliefs in the solutions to the worlds problems in spite of actual, empiric evidence.

Again, thank you so much, sir.

SSG Holden

Mr. Bacevich stated, "Who died?... And was it worth it? Now, there will be plenty of people who are going to say, "Absolutely, it was worth it. We overthrew this dictator." But I hope and pray that there will be many others who will make the argument that it wasn't worth it. "

Was it worth it? Where was he when millions of ordinary people who marched in hundreds of cities to protest the war. This was done prior to the launch of this "war", but to no avail. Even to this day, in some towns and cities across this nation, people gather on street corners calling for the return of our troops.

Congress has (and still is) being an enabler to GW's war. Again, thousands of citizens across this nation emailed (and continue to email) their Representatives and Senators to withhold funding (which isn't even reflected in the budget).

I've written to Congressmen and women with who are not from my state (MI) and am I am left to listen to the crickets.

I fail to understand why the Democrats have failed to stand up to this President. This regime should have been impeached and replaced years ago. Now our only hope is they will all face criminal charges after they leave the White House (provided they don't pull a fast one on us and declare martial law).

Wish I had seen it earlier. I practically wept for my country.

I am a Canadian privileged to be able to watch such insightful programming as the interview with Andrew Bacevich on PBS.
It is so unfathomable that a country that allows free speech as in this interview, cannot shake off the yoke of special interests. Your levels of government are even more corrupt than ours and the financial state of the country is just a house of cards. Your intelligent citizens know this but are powerless to change it as the majority of voters are manipulated by the "media" which is an arm of those who really control the country.
Bill Moyers Journal comes on in the early hours of the morning out of WNED Buffalo - not prime time.
I don't see any remedy using the existing loaded set up.
If you had only spent the money at home that you wasted on the Bush/Cheney Iraq adventure, you would have 100% Medical Coverage Nationally.
Isn't this catastrophy the reason you insist on being able to bear arms?
It is crisis time before even PBS is silenced.

Your interview with Mr. Bacevich is one of the most powerful discussions I have seen in years. The fact that our way of life is determined by the countries that export oil to us, should be a reminder that our nation is not independent and will have severe consequences in the future. Our company, Genesys, LLC, www.genesys-hydrogen.com has invented a new technology that would free our dependence on foreign sources of energy. This new technology generates hydrogen from water vapor injected in abandoned oil wells. To echo, Mr. Bacevich, we invited politicians from both parties to see a live demonstration of our technology. No one has taken up our offer. We elect leaders to perpetuate an imperial government that is only beholden to itself.

If we wish to get a glimpse into the ideals of what a democratic government is, lets see what the US government has to say about it.

http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/whatsdem/whatdm2.htm

But underlying any democratic government, sometimes tough decisions have to be made for the benefit of the whole. This goes back to the question I posed to this blog - do we do the greater good or the greater right?

If we look at the various powers the government has through executive orders, we are pretty much a Democratic, Communist Nation Under God with only the swish of the pen from the president.

Here are just a few of them...

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990 allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995 allows the government to seize and control the communication media.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10997 allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998 allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000 allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001 allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002 designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003 allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004 allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11005 allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities.

http://sonic.net/sentinel/gvcon5.html

What happened to all our individual freedoms with these executive orders?

It was lost long ago in the deluded American dream that believes the individual American can survive on their own.

Without a strong government you guys would be speaking Chinese or Russian. What happened to the personal property of Iraq when the US took it down? Ditto for your homes and McMansions if another country decided to move here.

Now, I am not making excuses for heavy handed tactics of the government, but I just bring this all up to remind us what can happen in a democratic country may not be that much different from what happens in some communist regimes.

Al I can say is if the government gets too out of hand from being drunk with power, sober em up some. Take to the streets and shut America down from coast to coast. Study up how our old friends the hippies did it back in the day. The just super-size it so it works better this time around.

If we citizens would have been organized as engaged citizens, both political conventions could have been given the message loud and clear that we do not want political business a usual in the US and we the people are ready to shut you down if you keep up screwing up...and we will shut you down consistently and by any means necessary.

Well, maybe next time astound the country would be more energized. Of course this presupposes we have the gas and the planes will still be flying so we can get to the conventions to voice our disgust about this putrid mess we call the American political system.

Contemporary USA...
Shameful ruling elite.
Shameful population. Shameful body politic.
Shameful acquiescence.
Shameful history.
Shameful national record.
Shameful "culture".
Shameful foreign policy.
Shameful domestic policy.
Shameful self-destructive nihilism.
Shameful narcissism.
Shameful national self-delusion.
Shameful projection.

Now ask yourself why BushCo. et al wanted to win the presidency so badly? Well Halliburton, Blackwater, and windfall Oil profits come to mind. All at the expense of the U.S. taxpayer...

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

Sure money is part of it.

http://www.moonbattery.com/bill-hillary-clinton.jpg

To this...

http://www.andrewcusack.com/royalty1.jpg

But money aside, politicians are egomaniacal, power hungry, attention loving people and would probably do it for free if they could not grab power and massage their bloated egos in any other way.

Vince Wilyard: I agree with your assessment of a conniving elite, but do you stop before searching the contents of Pandora's Box. Real life is more like the x-files than Nader might care to admit. Still I'd like to see old Ralph up there on stage with Freebie and the Bean myself. I'd say you spell terrific, especially when you recommend consumer boyctts and media strikes (not watching). I just boycotted the Olympics (Take that GE.)and never go near a Walmart- that's a start. Let's boycott the staged conventions too. VW, what do you think of a march on Washington Inauguration Day 2009, just to let our "main man" know what we support?

Nathan and Nader agree that both China and the USA are one party states. I get sick of being labeled liberal because the word originates in an era od deregulation and free trade of the 19th century, and because my beliefs are closer to the substantive meaning of "conservative." Conserve nature and basic human rights, I say. At Beret and now at Figgers we call ourselves neo-abolitionists because we want to abolish corporate personhood and the sacredness of unlimited private property. (It's sad how few owners control farmland, water and other vital assets. Corporations endeavor to own the Sun, all intellectual property and the code of life (genes), which is the ultimate insanity. )

Bryan: You should have taken me down a notch too, for wasting space arguing with a juvenile (Who claims elsewhere to have a son in college.). I am a fool by profession or I would have been greatly embarrassed by my own crude reactions. I love teasing people because I have been teased all my life (as a 'little person" and have come to enjoy such attentions, because there's nothing else I can do about it. beretco.op@gmail.com I'm gonna lay low awhile and read these new voices. Get debating guys and gals!

My apologies to those thoughtful enough to read my post concerning the spelling errors. My posts were recently being lost in cyberspace due to server errors, so I wanted to get my post up before such an "error".

I look forward to some credible debate.

Thanks for reading.

Vince

Anyone perplexed by the nonsense going on in Georgia need only read Pat Buchanan's book: "A Republic, Not an Empire"; this is coming from a liberal.

I am quoting an old movie here.

"Why would anyone spend $10 Million dollars to get a job that pays $50K a year, unless he didn't intend to steal it all back with interest?"

Montgomery Brewster.
Brewster's Millions.

Now ask yourself why BushCo. et al wanted to win the presidency so badly? Well Halliburton, Blackwater, and windfall Oil profits come to mind. All at the expense of the U.S. taxpayer.

War on Terrorism? I think not. It is a cover for securing oil pipelines throughout central Asia. Just look at the maps.

Besides if we are at war with terrorists, then aren't they at war with us? If so, when we catch someone who is at war with us, wouldn't that make them a WAR criminal? Unless of course our president is an imperial one, right?

So what do we do now? Reading books on the problems is fine. Watching programs about the problems is fine too. But at what point do we turn it all off and ask for a redress of our grievances?

I will bet everyone of you reading this will say come on, get real, right? Here is a suggestion for that sentiment. While I do not think that "democracy" alone is going to get us out of this set of circumstances so clearly outlined by Bacevich, I do believe that it is a test of sorts. And I would ask you think about it carefully in November.

First, let Ralph Nader in the presidential debates. Why? Let's hear what the others have to say when he starts to rebuke their meally mouth answers to serious public concerns such as equal pay, the environment, and the end to our governmental militarism. If there debates and platforms are really as credible as they have been advertised to be then they have nothing to worry about come November.

But they won't have it, the Demublicans. Because they are two sides of the same corporately spent coin.

The American people will keep buying the same nonsense about bipartisanship as though their is something noble about to private interest parties monopolizing our "democratic" process in our once idealized republic. Bipartisanship is like a bipolar disorder. Power shifts from side to side given a set of circumstances brought on by private interests to sway legislation in such a direction as to yield even greater profits. The Patriot Act created a whole new security - industrial complex, hence an emerging police state answerable to an "imperial presidency".

Should a three, four, or even 5 way debate take place before November, then I ask of you to pay close attention to the questions and answers. Answers mean nothing if the right questions are not asked.

We must push our representatives to do the right things. Otherwise we should either vote out all of the incumbents or abandon the system all together. We can quit funding the advertisers with our hard earned money. We can quit supporting businesses that support special interests rather than public interests.

Terms like liberal, conservative, democrat, republican, progressive, etc. mean nothing when we are broke. This of course is where the country is headed with such incompetence at the helm of our government.

To quote a recent blockbuster movie: "You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become a villian."

It is retirement time for villians.

“Allen Wrench”

I DID post a functional suggestion back on August 16, 5:30am. Write less, read more.

The reason for external controls, i.e., government, is what is called the tragedy of the commons. If there is a resource usable by all without consequence, it will eventually be destroyed by those who take more than their fair share. Perhaps the reason you’ve been banned from everywhere is that you’ve been hogging the netscape.

Today when I watched Speaker Pelosi defend her congress's 14% approval rating on Meet The Press I couldn't help but cringe when she contributed the failure of her institution to the Republican administration. Speaker Pelosi said, "We can only do so much unless we have a Democratic president to do all the things we want to do..." Didn't we just experience for six years what single-party-rule is like? Are Democrats not made from the same human fabric as Republicans? Are We, the American People, to expect this means our government can only work when the same party controls both branches? I hope not.

Does she and Harry Reid not preside over an equal branch of our government? Do We, the American people, need any more proof that our congress has, "thrust power to an American Imperial Presidency," as put by your recent guest Andrew Bacevich? How is it that the Speaker of the House can go on national television and issue this decree without having to answer to bewildered Constitutional experts and concerned constituents? I seriously doubt her office is buzzing with calls and e-mails questioning this comment.

The American Bus of Democracy has been running out of gas for over 30 years, and I'm afraid that when it stalls on the side of the freeway, Congress will be far to eager to jump out and push it wherever the President desires.

I would argue to the American people that the future of our great country doesn't lie in hands of the President-to-be, but rather in the fate of our Congress's functionality. If they refuse to get their act together, the very system our framers designed will be at stake, and that is something no President can fix - as much as I'm sure the American people will expect him/her to.

According to Dan Ackroyd; Pussy Whip is both a dessert topping and a cat grooming aid. It kills fleas and tastes delicious.
Spray it over a frosty mug of YooHoo, stir briskly with an allen wrench and enjoy. Anyone who can't enjoy that might as well leave for China now.
Cindy McCain will see you off with a sixpack and a bullwhip.

Well, Grady, most of the time animals are at peace in their natural environment. It is only when they come into close contact with man that they start to self-destruct.

Since you brought up animals Grady...you seem to be like an animal caught in trap, squirming and writhing in every direction, looking, grasping outside of themselves for freedom from this trap to find a modicum of inner peace.

But your trap is an 'inner one' Grady and all your efforts grasping outside of yourself is futile.

Every once in a while CNBC offers some words of wisdom other than the poker playing, crap shooting, compulsive gambler mentality of trading that they promote.

Rick Santelli offered one such pearl of wisdom when he said the powers that be in America need to take their medicine like men and stop trying to avoid the penalties of their financial shenanigans at all cost. To avoid taking their medicine is just making matters worse.

So, in your own case Grady, take you medicine like a man.

I can't help it life dealt you a shitty deck and you turned out o be a midget. But no doubt, there is still a man inside of you if you would only bother to revive him.

Stop having your wife pussy whip you into a political frenzy and start thinking for yourself Grady. A wise mans knows what he says and a fool says what he knows Grady.

If you wish to live off your wife then do so and if you want to be your own man then take that route. But in either case save the excuses for yourself.

If you can start to write your own line of coherent thought, instead of the usual cyclical reviews that echo the haggard shell of a human that is within you. You (maybe) can get on with life and take that first step in the opposite direction from where you have been headed in all these years. And may have a chance to open that door that is holding you in the death trap of a life you have created for yourself Grady.

Well, Grady, most of the time animals are at peace in their natural environment. It is only when they come into close contact with man that they start to self-destruct.

Since you brought up animals Grady...you seem to be like an animal caught in trap, squirming and writhing in every direction, looking, grasping outside of themselves for freedom from this trap to find a modicum of inner peace.

But your trap is an 'inner one' Grady and all your efforts grasping outside of yourself is futile.

Every once in a while CNBC offers some words of wisdom other than the poker playing, crap shooting, compulsive gambler mentality of trading that they promote.

Rick Santelli offered one such pearl of wisdom when he said the powers that be in America need to take their medicine like men and stop trying to avoid the penalties of their financial shenanigans at all cost. To avoid taking their medicine is just making matters worse.

So, in your own case Grady, take you medicine like a man.

I can't help it life dealt you a shitty deck and you turned out o be a midget. But no doubt, there is still a man inside of you if you would only bother to revive him.

Stop having your wife pussy whip you into a political frenzy and start thinking for yourself Grady. A wise mans knows what he says and a fool says what he knows Grady.

If you wish to live off your wife then do so and if you want to be your own man then take that route. But in either case save the excuses for yourself.

If you can start to write your own line of coherent thought, instead of the usual cyclical reviews that echo the haggard shell of a human that is within you. You (maybe) can get on with life and take that first step in the opposite direction from where you have been headed in all these years. And may have a chance to open that door that is holding you in the death trap of a life you have created for yourself Grady.

I am a card-carrying member of the ACLU. The ACLU would be unnecessary if we had wealth, race and class neutral justice. It is not what it used to be (like unions) because of the increasing appointment of fascist judges over time, the miseducation and misinformation of the American public, and the bureaucratic, kingdom building, upper middle-class fund-raising model; all of which tend to calcify and co-opt progressive and acyivist organizations. (WASPism brings its sick brand of self-superior missionary work to everything it touches. The "Shining City on a Hill" was always a mirage.) The ACLU was originally underwritten by popular writers. Now I ask you, what goods have media stars recently financed besides themselves?
ACLU is another ideal (striving for perfection) we must/should recover.

"IT (Imperfections?) don't seem to bother animals," is probably the most profound nugget of fascist thought. Implications:
1. The writer would be happier if he could reduce others to a wholly animal state.
2.The writer is covert elite dominionist who cannot resist assuming a Godlike role in determining the destiny of nature and humanity.
3.The writer probably assumes society is nothing more than an atomized collection of random acting individuals who must be manipulated by great minds.

The entire tendency exhibits a disregard for hard won anthropological, sociological, cultural and spiritual insights transcendent of our biological nature.

Concerned Citizen seems to understand that our interconnectedness is more than an epidemiological model (David Eddy posted examples.): that we are joined in some kind of morally obligatory and universal way that we can't confirm or comprehend. (Clue: It's way beyond our petty political and country club religions.)

Discussion on this blog itself is predicated by such an assumption. (No one is dumb enough to think we have measurable political impact.) All of us are curious about what others think. This commons of idle curiousity illustrates what humanity could and should achieve. Jesse Jackson (with acknowledgement of his character flaws)was abstractly correct in his most seminal statement: "If you can (collectively) conceive it, and you (a mass quorum of humanity) can believe (trust) it; then you can achieve it."

Some people see no obligation to lift up half-asses like Obama/Biden, but are content to consume the aromatic droppings of proto-fascists like McCain/Romney.

That is my line in the sand, except that it is etched in stone, and you can't move it (to a lower standard) except by demolishing the edifice. (All of us on this blog have proven to be champions of mixed analogy, and we are the better for it.)

Certainly there remain worthy goals we must "give up" for the moment (Linda) because of strategic conditions. There will be increments of reform even with decided People Power. (If we reserved a place to stand, we could leverage the world. We must assume that place and deny it to selfish interests.) Improving oneself by learning to skin a cat and dive the Marianas trench are the self-interested illusions of a closet apocalyptic masturbater.

By the way, Dr. Dolittle, what makes you think you know what bothers animals?

CC and Linda both made good points. But not quite sure what the 'give it up' line meant. Can you imagine if Americans did less than they do now to try and correct their dysfunctional gov? But I may have misunderstood what Linda had meant.

Despite what others say, America still has some freedoms and is a democracy of sorts. And media may not be perfect, but it is infinitely more prefect than the media in China or Russia.

As I wrote in earlier posts we are looking at this all wrong. We put our hopes in finding a perfect human specimen that does a perfect job at governing or running a media conglomerate.

Perfectionism is a human disease - animals don't seem to be bothered by it. They just do the best they can and are at peace with it.

Even if we found the perfect president or perfect mogul to run a media corp they would move on or die and we would have to put all our hopes in finding another perfect specimen to run things.

The best that we can do is be alert to imperfect trends, speak out about those trends and then correct those trends. Citizen action committee's and organizations can be formed to fight such corruption. But they must be given teeth to chew away at the sickness and disease just as a doctor is given a scalpel to cut out the cancer.But even these organizations will make mistakes as well. Just keep testing and corrrecting as you go - that is all the imperfect humans can do.

When I look at the history of the ACLU it sounded like a good organization for doing the policing job of the gov for the citizens. But somewhere down the line it too must have lost focus and seems to be just an impotent shell of its former self.

I am especially impressed with the fact that "The ACLU has been critical of elected officials and policies of both Democrats and Republicans."...that must have the Dems and Reps shaking in their boots!

Once you get some teeth citizens - start gnashing away at the bastards.

from the wiki:

The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) consists of two separate non-profit organizations: the ACLU Foundation, a 501(c)(3) organization which focuses on litigation and communication efforts, and the American Civil Liberties Union, a 501(c)(4) organization which focuses on legislative lobbying.[2] The ACLU's stated mission is "to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties guaranteed to every person in this country by the Constitution and laws of the United States."[1] [3] It works through litigation, legislation, and community education.[1] Founded in 1920 by Crystal Eastman, Roger Baldwin and Walter Nelles,[4] the ACLU was the successor organization to the earlier National Civil Liberties Bureau founded during World War I.[5] The ACLU reported over 500,000 members at the end of 2005.
Lawsuits brought by the ACLU have been influential in the evolution of Constitutional law.[6] The ACLU provides legal assistance in cases in which it considers civil liberties to be at risk. Even when the ACLU does not provide direct legal representation, it often submits amicus curiae briefs.
Outside of its legal work, the organization has also engaged in lobbying of elected officials and political activism.[7] The ACLU has been critical of elected officials and policies of both Democrats and Republicans

Linda writes an articulate exposition of the dastardly role of the media. Typically, the role of a free press in a democracy is to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable. In our nation, the media has become totally obsequious and functions as an adjunct to, an arm of, the executive branch of our government.

This is not surprising, since the media consists of giant corporations. A corporation is a diictatorship, not a democracy. Witness the behavior of the media since the Reagan presidency. Consider the relative soft-glove treatment given to the current administration and the media's shameful role in "selling" all the lies that have gotten us into our current debacle. The media has betrayed the population with impunity!

Corporatism is a power unto itself, with no one left to speak for the masses. Anyone attempting to do so is derided as a demagogue.Congress has long ago abrogated their responsibility to the electorate. Adams, Jefferson, Washington, Franklin, and all the rest of our Founding Fathers are turning over in their graves. We've got new masters, and they are far more powerful and insidious than the British Crown was in 1776.

Bacevich provided a long list showing the inadequacies of the national security state, beginning with its failure to protect us on 9/11.

One area where the national security state has been successful is where it has eroded Americans' civil liberties to the extent that it may be impossible to dismantle the imperial presidency without any effort short of all-out war between the people and the government.

I fully expect, probably in the nearer future rather than later, that our imperial presidency will use some crisis as an excuse, a crisis that may very well be concocted by it to preserve itself, to declare martial law within our borders and use its private paramilitary forces that currently operate outside the oversight of Congress (the people) against our own people.

Our government might succeed in doing this because of its success over the past almost-40 years to consolidate America's media sources, thus creating a scenario where media censorship is not recognizable to the typically-poorly-informed TV-watching citizen. (Sorry, Bill. Not referring to PBS/NPR viewers/listeners here.)

I don't think my personal situation is atypical when I say that most of my family members are scared out of their wits as a result of the fearmongering tactics used by the current administration to convince us that we must give up our freedoms in order to remain safe, a message that is carried out by a media industry that has sold out its obligation to the American people to provide real investigative journalism, and replaced it with mega-profits.

It's completely pointless to discuss IF our government will do this, only whether it COULD. The "conservative" crowd that supports greater executive power loves to get this discussion bogged down in accusations of "conspiracy theory."

That's it. What a hero Bacevich is for speaking up publicly. I will only fault him for his concerns re offending some people with his willingness to share intelligent conclusions that might seem harsh to some. My father was a West Point man, so I do understand his concerns. But I would encourage him to give it up. This is very likely going to be all-out war to either regain our country and its democratic principles from the conservative "demagogues" who got their marching orders from the likes of Paul Weyrich and the plan in the 1970s to create a conservative America by convincing the American people that conservatives can be trusted to take over US political structures.

Posted by: David Eddy

Allen Wrench,"The trouble is when opinions start killing people, it is a good time to do a reality check. Are our opinions based on ego or are they grounded in fact and truth?"

David Eddy, Actually, opinions are based on information we have accumulated and have formed into an opinion.

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

As I wrote before...

Psychologist William James once said, "A great many people believe they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices."

The Greek philosophers knew that when passion rules the mind, that the only job left for reason is that of the subservient task to find cleaver ways to satisfy the passions. They called it "putting passion before reason." Both these areas of passion and reason where the foundation of much philosophical discussion of ethics and virtue with the ancient Greeks.

Addicts always put their passions before reason and sometimes put passions before even life itself when their addictions end up killing them. Sometimes this is due to just being a greedy sensualist other times it is due to needing immediate gratification to help diminish the pain from living a wrong life that is full of pain we have created for ourselves.

We're doing something near to impossible, which is to predict the future. Tons of IF's, AND's and BUT's that could happen. We just don't know. As futurists we try to anticipate future events and the direction the world is headed in and as survivalists we try to prepare for those circumstances. But ego, prejudice and passions are some of the things that can distort this process.

Glad you are writing about it Grady.I know all I need to know about your from reading your posts. What you write give a glimpse of what is inside you my friend.

As I said, you don't have to justify your life to me. If you are happy with your life then keep on keeping on and if not change directions.

Print out your posts and study them. You can use your writing as a blue print for change and what cannot be changed must be accepted if you wish to be at peace Grady.

Posted by: David Eddy

Allen Wrench,
"The trouble is when opinions start killing people, it is a good time to do a reality check. Are our opinions based on ego or are they grounded in fact and truth?"
Actually, opinions are based on information we have accumulated and have formed into an opinion.
Many factors such as preconceived notions, vested interests and indoctrination has a lot of influence on opinion.
Hopefully, we are able to apply humanitarian and social considerations to our opinions.
Usually, our self-interest is consistent with the welfare of other people because our fate is interwoven with the fate of others. Socio-pathic opinions are usually self-defeating because "We" are "Them" and "what goes around comes around".
I had hoped that people would have enough common sense to do what is in their own best interest simply as a matter course.
Somehow, people are rationalizing wrong conclusions causing them to form self-destructive opinions and are unable to get their mind around rational conclusions and form constructive opinions.
Is it cooking with lead pots or what?
Reality is fast approaching the critical stage and we are bogged down with meaningless gyrations.

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

'Usually, our self-interest is consistent with the welfare of other people because our fate is interwoven with the fate of others'

One would think that to be the case.

But what is logical is not always practical when it comes to humans. As CC brought up P & L is a major factor with forgetting we all share the same breath. Many of us think we live in vacuums and can do as we please, squeezing people to death and never pay a price.

The business of humanism is 'all our business' if we with to live life at peace. For in the end, your sanity becomes my sanity and my sanity becomes your sanity.

Don't believe this? Let me illustrate how we all are in this together.

Remember the killings at Virginia Tech?

57 people shot or killed?

A millionaires daughter was a student at Virginia Tech. She was living a happy, carefree life as any millionaires child might do. But one day she ran into Seung-Hui Cho. She was subsequently shot, as some other 56 were. She lived, but is now she is paralyzed.

Seung-Hui Cho's sanity became her sanity...a sanity she lives with for the rest of her life. Seung-Hui Cho's sanity also became the sanity for the other 56 people that shared his thoughts that day.

The mega corporations big wigs forget they must to go outside sometime and share the sanity of the public that they have undermined by poisoning for profit.

Incidentally, I don't subscribe to any purist form of "ism" when it comes to socio-economic-ecologic arrangements. I believe that, since we are indeed navigating heretofore alarmingly uncharted territory on this little blue (soon to be red, and then brown) globe of ours, what we need is a vast pool of creative and caring thought-and-action if we are to have ANY chance of survival as mammals. Other life forms are, sadly enough, totally dependant upon humans ceasing to poison the blue globe.

Grady, P&L = "profit and loss", which, in turn, is the mantra which drives all "privatization" and "globalization" arguments which large corporate entities use to fleece the world's populations of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Asking people to come up with "solutions" to the multiple crises with which we are faced is somewhat akin to asking someone who has just stepped on a nail and simultaneously gotten a small shard of glass in his eye to "walk over yonder a piece and have a look at the beautiful scenery around the bend". The poor victim would be very pleased to do so, but first he is in desperate need of pain cessation.

Thanks for staying up, David Eddy. He's a deep diver: maybe he's seen that "hole in the bottom of the sea." There's a mass extinct frog on the lump on the log in the hole in the bottom of the sea. There's an allen wrench on the tongue of the mass extinct frog on the lump on the log in the hole in the bottom of the sea...

It's out there near Seattle, the garbage glob. I'm surprised you aren't helping with the clean-up.

Ah! It's almost 3am here. I'm going to lie down until this urge to work passes.

Allen Wrench,
"The trouble is when opinions start killing people, it is a good time to do a reality check. Are our opinions based on ego or are they grounded in fact and truth?"
Actually, opinions are based on information we have accumulated and have formed into an opinion.
Many factors such as preconceived notions, vested interests and indoctrination has a lot of influence on opinion.
Hopefully, we are able to apply humanitarian and social considerations to our opinions.
Usually, our self-interest is consistent with the welfare of other people because our fate is interwoven with the fate of others. Socio-pathic opinions are usually self-defeating because "We" are "Them" and "what goes around comes around".
I had hoped that people would have enough common sense to do what is in their own best interest simply as a matter course.
Somehow, people are rationalizing wrong conclusions causing them to form self-destructive opinions and are unable to get their mind around rational conclusions and form constructive opinions.
Is it cooking with lead pots or what?
Reality is fast approaching the critical stage and we are bogged down with meaningless gyrations.

CC: I may look stupid, but what is P&L?

Allen Wrench: Did you ever see Oprah calling Ellen fat? You may be a tool but don't assume the Moyeristas on this site are set screws. Even if we were your tiny girth would dangle in our hearts, never turning a cockle, and we would never feel it.

Your short menu of 3 colors is fascist bullshit. We are discussing the possibility of getting beyond past mistakes. Humanity is maturing and is ready for new possibilities. Both communism and capitalism breathed their last in the 1990s, and even the hybrids (like Yugoslavia) were extinguished. Universal fascism rules the day. (See my wife's (Gladdie Victrola) article on "A Novel Approach to Politics")

You need to read something new, maybe about neo-Amerindian movements in South America, or worker owned and managed cooperatives, or benign non-cult religious associations, or even a community garden (near you) and rephrase your inquiry.

I don't know what I advocate, but I will recognize it when I experience it. I broke with Jack martin because he, like you, and other boomers, lives in the past of list making and procedural solutions. He is a good teacher and a kind man but thinks a Prius is a good car.

How in hell do you know what I do with my time and money except what I have related? My wife and I have given all we have to a humanitarian organization that offers solace to low income artists and thinkers. We pay the rent and utilities and try to help those who ask. (We follow the example of Jimmy Carter and Millard Fuller in living simply.) My health problems are due to organ crowding from dwarfism induced by a medical error when I was 8 years old. I have out-lived my predicted demise by many years.(like Yoda) Also, I said some war criminals might deserve to die by smothering, which is better than what they alloted most victims and is more humane than a cocktail injection administered by a quack before 9 witnesses. The truth is I oppose capital punishment which is a far worse atrocity than passionate murder.

I admit that I lie for money in the service of a Wall Street bank. I haven't seen anyone else in my situation confessing publicly. My unique situation of owing a GS partner who paid for my surgery out of his wife's pity affords me some protection until the debt is retired. (I am paying half what I gross.) By the way, Wrench, are you a mechanic or something to earn your bread? Or are you Nigel Best messing with us again?
Somehow my intuition tells me I sympathize more with Concerned Citizen and Average Airline Pilot than my right-angled antagonist.

It doesn't matter who progresses to a better world first, us, or the Chinese, or the migrants from the south who will replace us. One human being is about as good as another. What really matters is not individual survival, but the triumph of the human potential to live sustainably and humanely in peace with the environment. As has been emphasized we all die because we are animal-bodied and tied to the evolved ecology of this planet. If only culture lives on, that is something to which we all contribute. Preoccupation with previous procedure and the printed word could even be part of the problem.
I feel like a dog scratching at the door of the accustomed. I want to go outside before I die.

"The reason why politicians both Democrats and Republicans continue to do shading and unscrupoulous activities is because they know they can get away with it, they are above the law because we the American Public do not demand that they be kicked to the curb when found out. "

Yes, both parties have problems with corruption, just like any political party since the dawn of history has. The question is not whether a party has corruption, because they all do, but rather to what degree. If you look at Republicans at the national level, starting with Nixon, over 30 Republicans in Republican Administrations have been convicted of felonies. The number for the Democrats in Democratic Administrations has been zero. If you look at the number of shady politicians in Congress today, the number of shady Republicans far outnumbers the number of shady Democrats, even today after the Republicans have lost their majority and much of their power to implement corrupt schemes. You can see the numbers at www.beyonddelay.org.

The Republicans have a real problem with corruption at the national level. Ever since Nixon and Ford burying all his crimes with a big fat pardon, they have never gotten over the problem of tolerating outrageous levels of corruption within the Republican Party. The message of Ford's pardon was clear: don't worry about corruption, the worst that can happen to you when you are President is that you are disgraced. No jail time. No full airing of your sins. It all gets buried. The lesson was repeated by George H.W. Bush when he pardoned Cap Weinberger and five others who started to testify under oath that Bush was right in the middle of the Iran Contra scandal.

Our current President has taken corruption and flagrant violation of the law to the extreme. With his cabinet dominated by Nixon holdovers, like Cheney and Rumsfeld, he has ignored the laws against spying on American citizens without a warrant, against torture, against outing CIA agents, against using the government to promote your own party, and against manipulating foreign policy by using the government to lie. This is not to mention the massive graft and corporate influence that has resulted in his former White House Chief Procurement Officer being a convicted felon and in our taxpayer dollars being diverted towards crony contractors and Bush and Cheney's longtime friends in the oil industry.

This was a major issue last election. It will be a major issue this election. There is a reason Americans gag at the sight of the holier-than-thou Republican hypocrites like the self-proclaimed protector of children pederast Representative Foley or the champion of family values like Senators Vitter and Craig. Americans know that the corruption does not stop there. Americans know about Jack Abramoff and how his corruption infected the entire Republican Party at the national level. Americans know that these Republicans at the national level have no character. None. They are either lawbreakers or apologists for lawbreakers.

The Republicans today tolerate an amazing amount of corruption within their party. And the outrageous corruption will continue until the party finally puts its foot down and says enough. It will happen. It will happen because the Republicans will see that unless it happens their party will disintegrate. It is disappointing that Republicans are waiting to root out the corruption within until it becomes a matter of their very survival. It is disappointing that they are waiting to root out the corruption until they are forced to do it for their own self-interest, as opposed to rooting out corruption because it is wrong, it is abhorrent and it is unAmerican.

Resources (both natural as well as human) need to be allocated according to the "greatest general good". The mantra of P&L does NOT EVER place the "public interest" at the top of the priority list.

Corporations need to be "re-defined" so as to remove from them the "protections and guarantees" that were bestowed upon them by the Supreme Court when the latter defined a corporation as a person! That is LUDICROUS!

Obviously, what probably will be needed is some sort of hybrid socio-economic arrangement that allows for some sort of centralized planning in the public interest, while simultaneously preserving some elements of capitalism (to be monitored and regulated in the public interest).

Of course, these ideas are anathema to the multinational corporate entities that own and operate the world.

To Grady Howard and Allen Wrench:

The world's people are at the mercy of HUGE and out-of-control corporate entities that do NOT "relate" to terms like "good" and "evil".....but only to terms like "profit" and "loss". Let's see....I wonder how much more fancy-dancing and "debating" the world's population can endure before we are ALL destroyed by these out-of-control "entities"?

Regarding book lists and seed-planting, I, too plant seeds and share book lists. I disdain and abhor anti-intellectualism, even though anti-intellectualism is as American as "God", flag, apple pie, mother, and indiscriminate violence against those weaker than ourselves.

No one cares how much you know until they know how much you CARE!

Posted by: Concerned Citizen

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

Hi CC and thanks for your reply. It looks like they are blocking my links again, so I had to remove them. It is a crap shoot if they will accept them or not every time I post.

Again CC, I have no argument with what you say. As Monsanto and the rest of American industry creeps along poisoning our world for profit. Your words are brought to life each day

link: (removed due to censorship guidelines)

And if they can't seem to get that 'terminator gene seed' bribe over (yet) they are working on laws to make it illegal for farmers to save seed from year to year.

link: (removed due to censorship guidelines)

Although I don't exactly agree with you regarding the good / evil profit / loss evaluation. For surely a portion of the good and evil debate comes to mind, maybe in different terms of illegal / legal, with the schemes they dream up. And most of the time I believe it to be more like 'can we get away with it without going to jail' type of decision.

Verona shared her book of 'Blessed Unrest' and while it is a good book for it's intended audience, it is useless for what awaits us around the corner. I shared just a few of the books I found useful in my own life for peak oil preparations. And Grady's words ring true that we can get lost in books and never get around to acting.

"It is not reasoning that are wanted now; for there are books stuffed full of reasoning." Epictetus

While Andrew's book sound like a winner, I do not plan to buy it, nor get it from the library. The topics he discussed in it are what I have been studying for decades, so that is an area that I am more or less content with my knowledge of.

I asked you and T. Rex for some feedback on this before and did not receive it. So let me spell it out a little more for you or anyone else to chime in on it.

There are basically 3 modes of society and government in our world that would be applicable for the billions we have in it.

They are:

Red - communists

Pink - a combination of communists and capitalism ...a la modern day Russia and China as examples.

Blue - shades of various degrees of capitalism.

So out of these 3 types of governments, how would you mix and match the best parts of each to form your ideal republic CC?

You don't have to write a book like Plato did in his Republic, But just give an outline as to what changes we can make. I am not trying to put you on the spot with trick questions, I just see from your posts you and T. Rex have strong feelings for the wrong, so wish to hear what you feel is right.

And if you can't express what is right for hundreds of millions in the US (not worrying about the rest of the billions in the world for now) then maybe you should temper your passions...just a little? Or at least until you refine you thoughts and crystallize them?

Let me paraphrase what Plato wrote to Crito.

Concerned Citizen, your zeal is invaluable, if a right one; but if wrong, the greater the zeal the greater the evil.

I surely don't have all the answers CC, other than the small changes and suggestions I have offered in making our gov more honest and transparent and less dysfunctional.

And even if we wished to close down all these corporations that are running the world, where would their employees go otherwise CC? This all goes back to Grady knowing he is doing wrong yet still doing it example...it is all he knows.

Same with almost everyone here CC. We have developed a society a certain way and it is all we know. But there is no doubt we can refine it to be the best we can make of a bad situation.

To Grady Howard and Allen Wrench:

The world's people are at the mercy of HUGE and out-of-control corporate entities that do NOT "relate" to terms like "good" and "evil".....but only to terms like "profit" and "loss". Let's see....I wonder how much more fancy-dancing and "debating" the world's population can endure before we are ALL destroyed by these out-of-control "entities"?

Regarding book lists and seed-planting, I, too plant seeds and share book lists. I disdain and abhor anti-intellectualism, even though anti-intellectualism is as American as "God", flag, apple pie, mother, and indiscriminate violence against those weaker than ourselves.

No one cares how much you know until they know how much you CARE!

Trying to drive a nail with an allen wrench, or other inappropriate tool, can leave you with some beat up wood.
Let me reiterate that Andrew Bacevich knows little more about what is ailing the USA than Larry King. If you bought every recommended book you would not have any money left and no time to read them, but even if you could do all the reading you would find that humans learn 4 or 5 times as much from doing than from reading. (Allen Wrench left out the "Anarchist's Cookbook.")

Someone told David Eddy that "good and evil" have lost all meaning. (That was mean, and inaccurate.) If there were no good and evil we'd accept any type of behavior nonchalantly. For instance, I know I'm doing evil on my Goldman Sachs job, but I'm doing some good paying the kind people who paid the doctors and hospital to save me from an agonizing death from intestinal necrosis. I also know that geo-realpolitik is evil, as in Georgia or Congo because it kills and harms so many people like me who are just making a living. Torture is evil. They teach it at WHUNSEC (formerly School of the Americas) at Fort Benning Georgia. One method is to invade the abdominal cavity minus anesthesia to gain full compliance from the victim. (Wow! What a sadistic political economy America can be!) Having passed out from gut pain even on morphine I know this procedure is evil. The corporate state eviscerates
every non-corporate economic approach in turn, disemboweling hard earned community effort. (See how they sell community gardens to developers for a dollar? See how they privatize, or piratize, every public owned utility and demand profit from what should serve the commons?)

Some long-winded posters foresee themselves as loner-survivors, serrated knife in hand, because of a flawed reading list. Let's hope we co-operative types don't have to resort to the not-entirely-evil good of smothering them while they sleep for the general welfare. (Maybe a just fate for Bush and Condi?)
At Figgers we never take a single opinion as final, but experiment and work for a consensus. I believe discussion will show that people are generally hopeful, adaptable and cooperative to the degree that the petroleum age can be transcended. Anyway, it would be foolish not to try, to revert to violent pre-emptive war and bloody competition before we know for sure. We have determined by long consideration that the major flaw in our Constitution is the sacredness of unlimited private property. This conclusion is more conservative than liberal in its eschatology. (Surprised?)

I'm sure you can debark your knuckles trying to drive a nail with an allen wrench, but I suspect one good neighbor (like David Eddy) might lend you a hammer. (Right this minute Bacevich is counting his book receipts and his bullets, probably.)

Posted by: Grady Lee Howard

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

While I do not put limits on the discussion of truth - let me caution you from vague references and threats of death to our leaders Grady, as the 'freedom of speech myth' only goes so far even in the US of A.

And you do not have to convince me by some convoluted methodology that the evil you do in life is also doing good and therefore you are excused Grady.

Save such justifications for yourself and hopefully they will also persuade your body to not rot away from the inside out any further from such a misguided life.

All our actions have consequences Grady, and many of our actions produce consequences that end up destroying peace. They destroy our peace as well as the inner peace of others.

Now, sometimes 'right' comes under the heading of the 'lesser of two evils' or the 'best fit scenario' I wrote about in some of my 'long winded' posts. But If one is waiting to find the 'ultimate right' then you will be stuck in analysis paralysis and not do a thing, just as your life of analysis paralysis illustrates.

Your posts are a good example of this ego blindness disease at work Grady. You are too smart to learn from others - the only things you entertain as truth must come from within you via your bloated ego.

Reread my posts on a 'choice divorced from need.' Park you ego and wit at the door Grady and use truth as your tool to find the inner peace you desperately are seeking my friend.

Your life of 'wishful thinking 'will do no good Grady, it will just produce more of the same horrid life you are living now. But a new life only requires you to take that first step in the opposite direction from where you have been headed in for so many years.

If one way is not working for you Grady..try the opposite direction.

And if you have not taken what I have said to heart, it is no problem. For I understand some of the seeds I scatter will fall on barren ground and wither. I have leaned long ago that my job is just to plant seeds...but I have no power to make them sprout.

But in my own case, I do the footwork to do what I can do, irrespective of all the 'what ifs' that people throw up for excuses to do nothing...just as you have done Grady.

The Successful Survivor must accept that the Self must come first. And while it is unfortunate that the foundation of that Success is based in Selfishness and not in philanthropy...that is what the reality of it is.

If we lived in a perfect dream world, then we could wipe out all these unfortunate and unforeseen circumstances that would cause one to have to prepare for possible disasters, upheavals and emergencies.

But the cold hard facts are that the business of Survival is not always nice and pretty - but it is always rooted in putting the preservation of one's own life first.

Let me delve into the concept of Selfish versus Selfless actions a little more. I don't wish to promote the wrong view that being Selfish is the key to being happy and at peace.

Most humans have a natural desire to help those in need. It is part of their makeup. But we must accept that we have built our world on unsustainable means - a means built artificially on fossil fuel.

And when we live out of balance with natures intended means there is a price to pay to come back in balance with nature. And the price usually extracts pain from us in the adjustment process.

But whatever way you decide to proceed...be authentic and you can be at peace with your actions Grady. The 'authenticity acid test' would ask the question; 'Would you do the same thing again knowing the outcome of your actions?' If you would not do it again, then your actions are not authentic, since you are not at peace with the outcome.

Authenticity is the key to being at peace Grady. For even if you or your loved ones must die early to gratify one's philanthropic or ego based desires, then one can be at peace with that outcome if one authentically puts ego above personal Survival.

In the end you only have to please yourself with your actions Grady...just be authentic with what you do and you can be at peace with whatever the outcome is.

Let me leave you with the mantra of the mixed gas technical diver as it will apply to you Grady and your disease of ego blindness in a post carbon world...it is not a matter of if you will taste death Grady...the only question is if you will swallow.

Trying to drive a nail with an allen wrench, or other inappropriate tool, can leave you with some beat up wood.
Let me reiterate that Andrew Bacevich knows little more about what is ailing the USA than Larry King. If you bought every recommended book you would not have any money left and no time to read them, but even if you could do all the reading you would find that humans learn 4 or 5 times as much from doing than from reading. (Allen Wrench left out the "Anarchist's Cookbook.")

Someone told David Eddy that "good and evil" have lost all meaning. (That was mean, and inaccurate.) If there were no good and evil we'd accept any type of behavior nonchalantly. For instance, I know I'm doing evil on my Goldman Sachs job, but I'm doing some good paying the kind people who paid the doctors and hospital to save me from an agonizing death from intestinal necrosis. I also know that geo-realpolitik is evil, as in Georgia or Congo because it kills and harms so many people like me who are just making a living. Torture is evil. They teach it at WHUNSEC (formerly School of the Americas) at Fort Benning Georgia. One method is to invade the abdominal cavity minus anesthesia to gain full compliance from the victim. (Wow! What a sadistic political economy America can be!) Having passed out from gut pain even on morphine I know this procedure is evil. The corporate state eviscerates
every non-corporate economic approach in turn, disemboweling hard earned community effort. (See how they sell community gardens to developers for a dollar? See how they privatize, or piratize, every public owned utility and demand profit from what should serve the commons?)

Some long-winded posters foresee themselves as loner-survivors, serrated knife in hand, because of a flawed reading list. Let's hope we co-operative types don't have to resort to the not-entirely-evil good of smothering them while they sleep for the general welfare. (Maybe a just fate for Bush and Condi?)
At Figgers we never take a single opinion as final, but experiment and work for a consensus. I believe discussion will show that people are generally hopeful, adaptable and cooperative to the degree that the petroleum age can be transcended. Anyway, it would be foolish not to try, to revert to violent pre-emptive war and bloody competition before we know for sure. We have determined by long consideration that the major flaw in our Constitution is the sacredness of unlimited private property. This conclusion is more conservative than liberal in its eschatology. (Surprised?)

I'm sure you can debark your knuckles trying to drive a nail with an allen wrench, but I suspect one good neighbor (like David Eddy) might lend you a hammer. (Right this minute Bacevich is counting his book receipts and his bullets, probably.)

The dynamics of social interaction on a global scale is unavoidable. We will either follow the course set by the republicans to the death and destruction of a third world war or we will take a stand against the present trend and adjust our moral and social agendas to correct our present course.
So much depends on our doing what is right and good instead of what is wrong and evil.

Posted by: David Eddy

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

'...doing what is right and good instead of what is wrong and evil.'

Well, humans seem to have lost such moral virtues long ago David. They realized that 'might makes right' is the expedient approach that suits them best and offers the highest return on investment. And any talk of honor is just that...talk.

Whenever the conversation turns to doing right, the question comes up do we go 'the greater good or do we do the greater right' as many times these areas produce wildly different results. But these sort of questions require one to think outside themselves is a selfless way and have a legitimate interest in the well-being of others. And above all it requires honesty.

But politicians are bankrupt when the subject turns to honesty. Politicians are ego based, power hungry individuals that only care about maintaining power at any cost. So how could they do as you ask David, when they lack the very basics of tools needed to do such a job?

One would only have to see John McCain on the news yesterday not being able to give a straight answer about how many houses he owns. And this is what America is putting their hopes in to fix all our woes?

Whether they lie as blatantly as McCain does or by omission as Obama does - politicians are all cut from the same cloth. Always remember, hiding behavior is s signpost of dis-ease. Sure the gov need to have some secrets for national security, but I don't think the number of houses one owns is one of them.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/archives/2008/08/9322_john_mccain_houses.html

America has been in a steady decline since it's golden age of the 1950's. We are too busy for morals David. Nowadays the 'moral and social agendas' you talk about revolve around making the marrying gays as natural as mom's long lost apple pie. And socializing is all done by text messaging...we don't even talk anymore.

As Zig Ziglar once said, "we are too busy planning our vacations than planning our lives...we are too busy planning the wedding, than planning the marriage."

From reading your posts, I can see many of you don't understand the gravity of what awaits you. As sheeple, you are blind to your future.

As our crude runs out and the jets are grounded, bananas, pineapple, mangos, papayas and other topical delights will be a thing of the past for many of us. Our grandchildren may not even be able to know the experience of jet travel. Localized food as Verona talked about will be that of design more so than desire. They say the 1500 mile salad will be a thing of the past - well, for me it is more like 2500 mile salad.

Women will be hit especially hard by a post carbon world, for we all know how women fare in times of unrest. And there wont be much local help or protection - for police run on gas too. Just look at Katrina as your model for your future. Only this time, the entire country will be localized and it will be a never ending localization, so the calvary wont be able to rescue you.

Self sufficiency skills will be one of the deciding factors for those that die and those that live. I suggest you have some basic firearms in your possession and know how to use them as I mentioned here earlier.

In the end, only so much grass roots change can come about from our work on changing the system. For as we change 'the system,' society will change in ways we have not even thought about or prepared for. And this is especially prevalent with the green crowd I talk with, for they were too blind to their future by concentrating on the green. Flexibility and adaptation are two characteristics of the successful survivor. My survival mentor says to prepare for the unthinkable - one must first think the unthinkable.

A few years ago I read an article in the Wall Street Journal about a con man named Charles Ponzi. He was credited with inventing the first pyramid scheme. The article stated when Ponzi was interviewed he was asked how he was able to swindle so many people so easily, his responded, "When a man's mind is concentrated he is blind."

Some of you dismiss what is being said with this same ego blindness as 'just one man's opinion or 'just a book.' Ah, how we like to dismiss things with just as wave of the hand. We don't answer the challenge, we just dismiss it all as not worthy of our time to address the topic in a a meaningful way. Some of you remind me my wife's stockbroker. she dismissed peak oil as 'just a theory.' Verona and some others puts their hopes in the green optimism of Blessed Unrest.

Well, we are each entitled to our opinions.

But, when the subject turns opinions I recall Clint Eastwood's famous line in one of his Dirty Harry series:

"Opinions are like assholes...everyone's got one."

The trouble is when opinions start killing people, it is a good time to do a reality check. Are our opinions based on ego or are they grounded in fact and truth?

I can't help that having your life ripped out from under you is depressing. It was depressing for me as well when my enlightenment came. But after a week of sulking I got to work doing what I could and accepting peak oil as something to prepare for.

When deaths from peak oil come about, it will be too late to do much - we had already had our chance, but found the whole subject as opinionated, depressing and something we can put off until decades in the future as we had put all our hopes into the fanciful imaginings of a hydrogen economy.

http://www.energybulletin.net/primer

"Nothing we have developed will replace crude oil...no biofuels, nuclear, CTL, cellulosic ethanol, algae lipids, tar sands, solar, methane hydrates, shale oil, dark matter, black light, solar thermal, bakken shale, switchgrass, fusion, wind, coal-bed methane, cane sugar ethanol, wave power, hydroelectric, geothermal, GTL, Fisher-Tropf, thermodepolymerization, cow farts, cat crap or dog poo. Ain't nothing. Get used to it." ~ from Peakoil.com

One other point; none of us will be ultimate survivors, we all have to die one day. But the successful survivor extends his or her life beyond an earlier death...a death that was caused by ignorance of how to make that life last longer. Sure be green, do good and hope for the best...but don't let green or your ego blind you to the black that awaits you my friends.

Book and DVD list. All available from your local library.

Beyond Oil: the view from Hubbert's Peak
by Deffeyes, Kenneth S.

The Coming Economic Collapse - how you can thrive when oil costs $200 a barrel
by Leeb, Stephen

A Crude Awakening - the oil crash
Lava Productions AG, Switzerland DVD

The End of Suburbia - oil depletion and the collapse of the American dream
by Greene, Gregory DVD

Fed Up DVD

High Noon for Natural Gas: the new energy crisis
by Darley, Julian

The Long Emergency: surviving the converging catastrophes of the twenty-first century
by Kunstler, James Howard

Oil Apocalypse
History channel DVD

Peak Oil Survival: preparation for life after gridcrash
by McBay, Aric

Powerdown: options and actions for a post-carbon world
by Heinberg, Richard

Resource Wars: the new landscape of global conflict
by Klare, MichaelT

A Thousand Barrels a Second: the coming oil break point and the challenges facing an energy dependent world
by Tertzakian, Peter

Twilight in the Desert: the coming Saudi oil shock and the world economy
by Simmons, Matthew R.
Well written book examining 12 of the key Saudi oil fields.

Who Killed the Electric Car?
Sony Pictures Classics release

Zoom:the global race to fuel the car of the future
by Iain Carson and Vijay V. Vaitheeswaran.

...you still have some valuable time left to prepare for what awaits you down the road. We are in the 'Indian Summer'of a post carbon world. Don't wait until the winter sets in to start work on your preparedness efforts.

The Alcohol Fuel Handbook / by Lynn Ellen Doxon.
by Doxon, Lynn Ellen

Art of Nothing
An excellent series of DVD's showcasing primitive skills:

Basic Essentials. Edible Wild Plants & Useful Herbs
by Meuninck, Jim

The Biodiesel Handbook
by Gerhard Knothe

The Bread Builders:hearth loaves and masonry ovens
by Wing, Daniel

Breathe No Evil
Safe-Tek Publishers

Brown's Second Alcohol Fuel Cookbook.
by Brown, Michael Halsey

Build a Root Cellar & Storm Shelter
by Hobson, Phyllis

Bushcraft
by Mors Kochanski
Great reference on primitive wood skills.

The Can Opener Gourmet
by Karr, Laura

The Citizen-Powered Energy Handbook: community solutions to a global crisis
by Greg Pahl

The Coming Economic Collapse - how you can thrive when oil costs $200 a barrel
by Leeb, Stephen

The Complete Book of Dutch Oven Cooking
by Fears, J. Wayne

The Complete Book of Fire: building campfires for warmth, light, cooking, and survival
by Tilton, Buck

The Complete Book of Survival
by Stahlberg, Rainer
An outstanding all encompassing guide to the philosophy of surviving - Highly Recommended.

The Complete Guide to Edible Wild Plants
by Lyle, Katie Letcher

Country Wisdom & Know-how
Numerous authors and publishers...all contain worthwhile information.

Dancing at Armageddon: Survivalism and Chaos in Modern Times
by Richard G. Mitchell Jr

Edible Wild plants
by Meuninck, James

Edible Wild Plants of Pennsylvania and Neighboring states
by Medve, Richard J.

Edible and Medicinal Plants of the West
Gregory L. Tilford

Emergency Preparedness. Awareness & Survival
DVD Apogee Communication, 2006 - Highly Recommended.

Farming for Self-sufficiency
by John and Sally Seymour

Field Guide to Edible Wild Plants of Eastern and Central North America
by Peterson, Lee.

First Aid for Dogs.
Various authors under related titles...First Aid for Cats...Horses...Pets....even Insects!

Four-Season Harvest:organic vegetables from your home garden all year long.
by Eliot Coleman

Going Local: creating self-reliant communities in a global age
by Shuman, Michael

Grit Magazine

Guns and Ammo Magazine

How to Dry Foods
by DeLong, Deanna.

Life after doomsday
by Bruce D. Clayton

Magic of Wheat Cookery
by Tyler, Lorraine Dilworth

Making Your Own Motor Fuel
by Fred Stetson

Mother Earth Magazine
Al back issues available on CD ROM for nominal cost from:

Natural Home Heating: the complete guide to renewable energy options
by Pahl, Greg

Nutrition and well-being A to Z
Delores C.S. James editor

The Omnivore's Dilemma

Pantry Cooking : quick and easy food storage recipes
by Robins, Laura

PDR for Herbal Medicines
by Medical Economics

Peak Oil Survival: preparation for life after gridcrash
by McBay, Aric

Powerdown: options and actions for a post-carbon world
by Heinberg, Richard

Primitive Living, Self-sufficiency, and Survival Skills : a field guide to primitive living skills
by Elpel, Thomas J.

The Renewable Energy Handbook:a guide to rural independence, off-grid and sustainable living
by William H. Kemp

Root Cellaring : the simple no-processing way to store fruits and vegetables
by Bubel, Nancy./Bubel, Mike

Seed to Seed: seed saving techniques for the vegetable gardener
by Ashworth, Suzanne

Shelters, Shacks, and shanties: the classic guide to building wilderness shelters
by Beard, Daniel Carter

U.S. Army combat skills handbook / Department of the Army.
Lyon's Press

Zips, Pipes, And Pens: Arsenal Of Improvised Weapons
by J. David Truby

The interview with Andrew Bacevich was one of the most compelling, informative, and moving pieces of journalism I've ever encountered. The discussion revealed such simple, but profound and little-heard, ideas. Thank you, Bill Moyers, for continuing to deliver this clarifying and sophisticated program.

The interview with Andrew Bacevich was one of the most compelling, informative, and moving pieces of journalism I've ever encountered. The discussion revealed such simple, but profound and little-heard, ideas. Thank you, Bill Moyers, for continuing to deliver this a clarifying and sophisticated program.

I hope I am not repeating here, as I came to the transcript of this program late, via tomdispatch.com. I have two comments. First, the description of the incursion into Georgia Mr. Moyers gives at the outset of the program is a half truth that is not up to his standards. Second, the elephant in the livingroom with regard to the excellent interview is that at the heart of the problem for our democracy is the privatization of everything under the sun in the name of freedom - something our founding fathers never envisioned and in fact tried to guard against. Corporations now own this country and are setting their sights on the world. The presidency has been privatized. It will raise hackles to call it fascism, but if it walks like a duck...

Calling it the imperial presidency is far to kind.

The dynamics of social interaction on a global scale is unavoidable. We will either follow the course set by the republicans to the death and destruction of a third world war or we will take a stand against the present trend and adjust our moral and social agendas to correct our present course.
So much depends on our doing what is right and good instead of what is wrong and evil.

Unfortunately, Mr Becevich is an ardent militarist who sees fighting war as honorable and necessary.Let's just find the right one to fight He wants wars that can be won and is suffering under the delusion that killing for your country is honorable. I profoundly disagree.Nationalistic patriotism is a religion which allows those with power to extract obscene amounts of money in the name of righteous warfare. War is terrorism.

Killing under the cloak of war is murder. Albert Einstein.

Posted by: tom

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

War does not determine who is right - war determines who is left

Sure war stinks Tom

But we are in a new era of human life.

We are entering the post crude phase of our existence and we will see much more turmoil in the near future than just the few killings that have come our of our current war effort.

You see, we will be at war over crude until the last buckets have been sucked from the earth...so get used to it.

As we would leave the Middle East...China or Russia would step in.

See:

http://www.amazon.com/Resource-Wars-Landscape-Conflict-Introduction/dp/0805055762

China has triple our pop and a fraction of our oil reserves within its borders.

So either we play bodyguard to the Middle East or China or Russia will.

We all like typing on the 'puter don't we?

Well, without the crude to make the diesel to power the train that brings the coal to the power plant you would not be typing on the 'puter.

But that is not all.

We are entering an era of peak natural gas, peak water, peak food, peak uranium. So many areas of new conflict are in our future.

Then again, we could just all start learning Chinese or Russian and throw in the towel?

Self sufficiency skills will be one of the deciding factors for those that die and those that live. I suggest you have some basic firearms in your possession and know how to use them.

A pistol is used to fight your way back to your assault riffle if you get separated from it...and if all else fails grab your shotgun....so I would buy 3 guns as a MINIMUM.

These 3 are the trinity of your self defense foundation Tom.

Someday you may have your guns taken from you either by force or so-called legal methods. If you have 2, 3 or 5 backups of each weapon, properly cached, you are still in the defense biz, but with only one weapon you are out of luck if it gets taken. Our back up guns and ammunition should be cached for the security that diversity offers.

Terry Thomas, you should be ashamed of yourself for your scathing, disgusting comments. For the record, Mr. Bacevich lost his son in May of 2007. Do everyone a favor and begin here educating yourself by reading the article he wrote in March, 2003. After that, begin educating yourself in general. That may be the best place America can start; educate ourselves beyond the narrow, black and white perspective.
Please read his article in the LA Times on March 20, 2003. Please!
http://articles.latimes.com/2003/mar/20/news/war-oebacevich20

Knew this was going to happen since the early 70's. Saw too many products from Japan at that time. We have dug a bottomless sink hole that will never fill back in.

Colonel Bracevitch's statement is biblical in its directness. It can't be fixed in the post 911 climate of a permanent external security threat.

Enjoyed and recorded the Mr Bacevich interview and find I agree whole heartedly. I'm proud to call myself a progressive; would fight Apache-style against those who are neo-Nazis and yet find this anger makes me as reactionary and narrow minded as them.
As a Democratic Party voter I also find devils in Andrew Jackson's legacy (support of slavery, his murderous hatred of First Americans and belief in the imperial presidency) too close to the fascist elements of the GOP neo-cons. It's a conundrum.

I believe in a reformist ideal vs the reactionary conservative. I believe our nation owes it's warriors respect and leadership which will repudiate it's Darkside rather than bathe' in it.

Mr Bacevich's son's sacrifice is one of the strange fruits of the incompetent Bush/Cheney eternal war. This is Viet Nam Part II, a nurturing of enemies and a wallowing in the greed of Big Oil (has anyone examined the profits made by Bush/Cheney and their friends?). We're getting stabbed front and back; the Saudis/OPEC get richer AND are able to spread radical doctrines as we act the part of The Great Satan. Five million Iraqis are refugees (think they'll be able to or want to move here?) or trust the USA on moral grounds (torture has become US). Thanks, King George!

I'm slipping away from broadminded and easy going. I don't believe we can survive unless the rich can pass through the eye of a needle and we can wean ourselves from the fossil fuel teat.

Unfortunately, Mr Becevich is an ardent militarist who sees fighting war as honorable and necessary.Let's just find the right one to fight He wants wars that can be won and is suffering under the delusion that killing for your country is honorable. I profoundly disagree.Nationalistic patriotism is a religion which allows those with power to extract obscene amounts of money in the name of righteous warfare. War is terrorism.

Killing under the cloak of war is murder. Albert Einstein.

Unfortunately, Mr Becevich is an ardent militarist who sees fighting war as honorable and necessary.Let's just find the right one to fight He wants wars that can be won and is suffering under the delusion that killing for your country is honorable. I profoundly disagree.Nationalistic patriotism is a religion which allows those with power to extract obscene amounts of money in the name of righteous warfare. War is terrorism.

Killing under the cloak of war is murder. Albert Einstein.

What the liberals forget is that Bill Clinton did the same thing in Iraq but did not finish the job. Bill Clinton's reason for Bombing Iraq was the same as GWB and that was he had WMD! Seems since 1998 Bill Clinton and the Democrats was saying Iraq had WMD..GWB did what others tried and done it right and finished the job!

Yes the problems will not be solved by the president at least not the ones that the media promotes. As long as people think that by voting against one party or the other that this will solve our problems we will continue to have the same problems. Right now we had a choice but people didn't see it so they are stuck with the same thing thinking that Mccain or Obama will solve the problems, how sad everyone is still asleep.

Thank you Bill Moyers and Andrew Bacevich for a thoughtful and much needed discussion last week. I thoroughly agree with the assessment. My thoughts on how to fix it are about helpiing people to vote for a candidate who proposes solutions (Ron Paul, Dennis Kucinich, Ralph Nadar, etc.) and forget about trying to "get someone who can win. " If enough people voted for 3rd and 4th party candidates, maybe we can get real dialogue and political discussion about the problems. Meanwhile, we must live/ walk/& talk the solutions - local food, alternative energy, local political issues, and grass toots movements. Paul Hawkins book, "Blessed Unrest" shows what is happening at the grass roots level and eventually we will manifest the changes necessary to have top level change. Grace Lee Boggs spoke of this, too.

Mr. Bacevich, after reading the comments stimulated by your incredibly thought provoking book interview, I would dearly love to hear any feasible recommendations you might have to place us on a path back to a more balanced political playing field here in the United States.
Thanks,
Jim.

This is comment #2 on "The Limits of Power".

Andrew Bacevich notes that the Iraqis and Afganis have adapted their weapons much more quickly than the Americans.

This is to be expected.

Lets say you have 1000 Bradley Fighting Vehicles that have to double their armour plating because of the IEDs. Its reasonable to expect this would take several months and at considerable cost.

The day the vehicles are upgraded, then Al Queda simply doubles the size of the IED explosives (at the cost of 2 pizzas instead of 1) and punctures the reinforced armour, to start the process again.

The sad thing is that this type of adaption should have been known before they got into this war. We are in their country and end up fighting on their terms.

Mike Smith

The "imperial" nature of the U.S. has been obvious for much longer than 1990, as Bacevich suggests. However, historically, all nations are imperialistic as long as their wealth, technology, military power, etc. are superior to other nations. The balance of power has shifted from nation to nation based on these factors since ancient times (Greece, Rome, Spain, Britain, etc.). Bacevich is correct that our democratic system is a hoax. It has always been controlled by those wealthy enough to buy influence, sidestepping the checks and balances designed into the political system. However Bacevich speaks of the time when the U.S. trade balance tipped in favor of foreign countries, weakening our ability to pay for our historic imperialism. Although unbridled consumerism is a U.S. weakness, reducing consumer demand won't return us to the pre-trade deficit state. The global interdependence of the world's economy was created by many forces including technological innovations. We can't go back to economic or political isolationism. Is there a balance between isolationism and imperialism? If so how do we achieve and maintain it? And how can the U.S. democracy restore power to the masses, being controlled as it is by the 1% wealthiest and most powerful?

What is missing are suggestions on what to do about the 2008 election.

Posted by: Pierre Pondrom

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

Hope this gets by the censors...

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk187/fookisan/screwd08.jpg

Panic is for those not prepared. We develop self confidence by mastering the skills needed to overcome any situation that arises to threaten our life...time to get to work Pierre.

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk187/fookisan/po2.jpg

...

Brilliant interview with Andrew Bacevich. The ideas and descriptions of the problems facing America were perfectly articulated. And with huge respect for Moyers and Bacevich, but why didn't Moyers ask Bacevich to propose a solution. Even hypothetical. I don't understand why he didn't ask that.
What is the purpose of articulating the problem with a high degree of precision and honesty, if not to carry it though to a suggestion for a remedy. We have enough reiterations and eloquent articulations of the problems facing this country. We have enough intangible ideals of what could be, or should be done. How about a simple blueprint for change that everyone can be a part of and actively pursue. I understand that informing people is part of the solution. But no one knows what to do with all this information. We can either intellectualize things until we're third world, or we can put our heads together and execute.
I don't have a plan. I'm just an average thinker, but my proposition is that: the minds that are wasting time reiterating the problems and posing idealistic abstractions should stop pandering to their own assembly, and propose something we, the common American citizen, can understand and can use today. Give us a solution.
I say, let's stop describing the problem and start making suggestions for remedies that we can all take part in right now. Is there an organization I can join? Is there a task I can do everyday? What can I do when I wake up tomorrow to start making a difference?
-ursus-
Posted by: ursus

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

You brought up a point that was haunting me last night...a solution. You also remind me of the people at the forum at the Picken's Plan. They don't want talk they want action. The trouble with both these areas of government and peak oil is they can't be fixed perfectly, they can only be a continual work in progress.

I think many of us are approaching this issue all wrong. We need to realize that imperfect humans are running our world. So when judgments have to be made, mistakes can and will happen. (as we know too well in our own lives).

That being said, instead of looking for a 'perfect solution' that smacks of the Martha Stewart syndrome, look for a 'diminishing of sickness' within our government and society.

As I said eariler, we can go in 3 direction with sickness. We can increase it freeze it or decrease it. If we 'look for direction and forget perfection' we may do better than trying to perfect imperfect humans.

If you have trouble with the 'sickness notion' then ask yourself if things are better or worse or frozen in our country?

But when it comes to presidents sticking their cigars in women private parts while they are on the job or slap happy idiots shooting off their arsenal of pop guns at every imagined threat - I view that as dysfunctional sickness.

As James Allen tells us - "Circumstances does not make the man - it reveals him to himself"

link: (removed due to censorship guidelines)

I've offered a few tools of reforms in my posts, but the bottom line is unless we start chastising the politicians for their crimes and put some bite in our bark, they will keep on keeping on.

I guess the first step would be to put some of our ideas to town meetings (sans presidential hopefuls) and a national vote. (if a national vote can even be done.) But I am like you in the sense that I know very little about the inner workings of laws and alas can only offer suggestions. But it takes all sorts, for I don't see the people knowing the law suggesting much here.

Our government has become so complex, that almost nothing substantive to help America can be done. The first step is to simplify the government and start returning to the ideal of 'the government of the people, by the people and for the people,

One big change would be transparency and simplification when voting. When the politicians vote on a bill - it has to be a vote on one single proposal. Outlaw the bundling of all these special interest add-ons that corrupt bills into a putrid mess that no one can understand.

But as soon as you unbundle the bills, how will the lying thieves get their pork funded? So they resist any such change at all costs.

It would be nice if we had an auto recall feature with our politicians, where they could be easily recalled if they didn't pan out after each year on the job. And don't make a big deal of it....just flush the crap down the toilet.

You know politicians are power hungry, egomaniacs and most likely would shape up if they were going to lose their drug fix and go cold turkey right to ego deflation. Clinton said he did not know what to do with himself for 3 weeks after he left the white house...well, he had some free time to shop for cigars I guess?

You ever see these old geezers having to be carried out on a stretcher from senate or congress? It is not because they are such dedicated public servants. It is because they can't bear to take themselves away from screwing the public.

But until RADICAL change has been FORCED on our politicians NOTHING WILL CHANGE.

IF NOTHING CHANGES...NOTHING CHANGES...it is that simple.

link: (removed due to censorship guidelines)

My education is so limited that I cannot put into words the sorrow I fell when I read of an American soldier dying in war. I am reluctant to even write to you due to your great lost.
I never would have dreamed the U.S. would become a county of war mongrels. I used to vote republican and now see them as evil as Germanys were in the early 1930. Even now is Bush trying for a war with Russia, after all a party at war during election always favors the party in office. And as you and I believe most American do not see Iraq as a real war more as police action. In my state a few year ago a senator named Mike DeWine campaign folks admitted to doctoring up a video of the world trade center by digitally adding smoke.Yes it really happened?? So this is why I believe the republican will do anything to get relected, even start another unnessarry war to keep power. It sad how logical argument for war can be, always a reason for war lets choice to look harder for the reasons to avoid them, human logic is truly foolishness. And folks that read this (the really smart ones) fell free to made fun of any spelling errors I made after all that what really important not our solider dying. Lets face it American this thirst for war in republican ranks is new and we need to get it under control. An ending note, I am horrifed of the though of another republican president getting elected and ashamed I ever voted for any of them.

HOW CAN WE FIX IT?

There are several ways recommended to “FIX IT!
Some believe by revolution!
Some by printing press monetary policy!
Some by demonstration!
Some by military power!
Some by electing new figure had – new president!
Some by amending the tax code!
Some by their religious believe!
Some by increasing the prisons!
Some by justice system that is defending a dead constitution; A system of
adapted laws to fit the interest of their particular political party etc.!

Some of us believe by “AMENDING THE CONSTITUTION”; to EMPOWER the PEOPLE TO “EXPRES THEIR WILL” on ALL ISUES!
The Constitution should have been address and amended long before these crises!
Changes should not have been made by adapting new LAWS!
AMENDMENS to CONSTITUTION worked before and should work again!
THE POWER SHOULD BE IN the PEOPLE and NOT in the dysfunctional CONGRESS and SENAT that conveyed their power to the PRESIDENT!
If anyone has other, better way than the ones stated, please let us know!

The ISSUES were well stated and they are:
CONSTITUTIONAL CRISES
WAR
HEALTH CARE
NATIONAL DEBT $10.6 trillion dollars
ECONONY -ECONOMIC OPPRESSION-DEPRESSION- POVERTY
SOCIAL SECURITY
PRINTING PRESS DEVALUATION of THE CURRENCY
IMIGRATION
JUDICIAL SYSTEM
MILITARY FOREIGN AID... while the NATION is BANCRUPT
TAXES
EARTH ECOLOGY – AIR POLUTION; WATER; OIL
PORK BAREL POJECTS
DEMOCRACY or IMPERIAL DOMINATION
EDUCATION ETC.

This guy is so right!!! We handed the congress to the democrats on the promiss that they would scale back or end the war back in 2006!
They have done nothing but lie since...So if you really truly think if Obama gets elected that things will change, then you all who voted for him are going to be very disappointed...

I agree. But this man doesn't know who he is. He has supported the people that caused the problem his whole life until he lost his son, who he states he doesn't want to exploit. Our problems will never be solved because there are too many with the attitude he had before he lost his son. The problem is greed and the desire to do things that we are ashamed of to get what we want. Why would anyone give back to the world that which they have taken from it through their evil exploitations. For example: Ask the Kennedy family to give back all their fortunes because it was all acquired by the bootlegging of Irish whisky in the prohibition times and other mafia like dealings. Most people with huge fortunes have done deeply disturbing things to get to their high and mighty position of moral leadership. I'm ashamed of our country, as it seems that Mr. Bacevich is now, after seeing the results of what they have done materialize right here at home with the current financial bailouts for the rich bankers in the face of millions of people loosing their homes. His turning over a new leaf isn't all that it is made up to be. He is looking to be a best seller, who is selling out his republican buddies not unlike Scoot McClellan. Hell, Castro has more foresight than our republican con artist. Look carefully at the Jack Abramoff and Karl Rove blue print strategy of how to lead poor countries to democracy. Castro said that we would starve poor countries with our turning corn crops into fuel. Look around. In the last century our country has dealt unfairly with the world and look where it has gotten us. We are facing a depression that will make the great one look small. Where will those ill gotten gains be used? -- to fence out the starving citizens of our own country? What a bunch of moral leaders we are for the world to follow!

I hate to say this, but iVillage is run by right-wingers. Their message board leans right, and there is a reason. iVillage has their finger on the right side of the scale. I know because I am proud to say I just got chucked off after quite a long time posting. I assiduously avoided personal attacks and anything that could be perceived as a TOS violation. I posted facts, facts and more facts showing that the right wing is out to lunch, nobody home. Our media, and our corporate owned web sites, all have their fingers on the scales for Republicans. This election should be an absolute landslide against the patently corrupt, lazy and incompetent bunch of Republican politicians running for all types of federal offices. Instead McCain can run around acting like a loose cannon and pick up 10 points in the polls because everyone gives him a free pass.
Here's my advice everyone. Join iVillage, join other web sites where the debate is happening and you are not just preaching to the converted. Keep getting the facts out. As I wrote in a recent diary, just the facts on oil alone are enough to make one gag on the Republicans' excuse for an energy policy: http://www.dailykos.com/...
I want my country back :(
Posted by: Duck Soup

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

Well this is kind of off topic isn't it?

But as long as you brought it up I will give you a little background about myself and online censorship.

I used to go by the online name of 'V' or 'VFR' and I have been on over 300 forums over the last 10 years. I have been banned from about 70% of them due to prejudice. The sad thing is, vast majority of these forums have been dedicated to personal improvement as well as spiritual studies. During this time I have never attacked anyone or been in a flame war. My only crime is trying to discuss truth.

Now with Christian forums it is 100% ban rate and Buddhist forums is 95% ban and atheist forums it is about 95% ban.

So it seems this ignorance is universally 'human' in nature and shared by theists as well as atheists.

Psychologist William James once said, "A great many people believe they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices."

Let me give you an example that has happened to me in the past from a quote I posted here yesterday.

In the bible it says "Test everything; hold fast to what is good; abstain from every form of evil," (1 Thess. 5:21)
Taking wisdom from Christian, Buddhist and most other religions of the world, I discuss such tools in my posts no matter their source.

When I talked about this 'concept of testing' and related it to the Buddha's tool of testing doctrine, but included this bible quote above, I was banned by the Buddhists. Yet the Buddha also encouraged testing of his teachings before adopting those teachings.

At a Christian forum, when I brought up the Buddha encourages testing just as it was said in the bible, the Christian forums banned me.

Then at the atheist forums when I mention the Bible and the Buddha both offered the tools of testing to help determine truth, the atheist sites ban me.

Yet, all three groups like the idea of testing for truth, as long as this idea comes from them and not from anyone else...many people believe they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices.

The three unwholesome roots of delusions, greed and hate are very basic to a a Buddhist practice. Out of these three, delusion is the foundational root, for without seeing delusions for what they are, you cannot distinguish the other two unwholesome roots of greed and hate.

People suffer from delusions in all form and not just deity worship. Atheism, while freeing one's mind to think, but it does not guarantee one 'thinks right' and acts right.

For instance, I was banned from many 'so called' Buddhist sites such as Esangha, Tricycle, Shambhala, Buddha Chat, 12 step Buddhists, Sangha-Pauahtun, eBuddhism, etc even though I have a keen interest in Buddhist thought.

Some people claiming to be Buddhist think all they have to is shave their heads, adopt a silly name, be a vegetarians and burn incense to be a Buddhists...all the while they are doing great harm to others,

Which is how it is with many Buddhist forums that are 'for profit' and run by 'spiritually sick' individuals. Currently, it is a sad state of affairs with such online Buddhist groups.

I've been on dozens of Christian forums and I have perfect record at the Christian forums...100% banned...and I was a Christian myself for 50 years before I became enlightened to the truth.

link: (removed due to censorship guidelines)

link: (removed due to censorship guidelines)

link: (removed due to censorship guidelines)

I was able to finagle my way back into one Christian forum though:

link: (removed due to censorship guidelines)

But I could only stay if I claimed to be an atheist...and I do not post much and keep my mouth shut...and if I do post it has to be something non consequential. Also I am not allowed to post with the Christians. I can only post to the atheists. I like that forum as it reminds me of the 'sickness of attachment,' so that is why I put up with all the prejudice. At that forum you can 'buy your armor' to outfit your avatar to shield you from evil and 'trade blessings' with each other.

The Billy Graham and Catholic forums banned me after my first posts...then they solicit me for months on end asking for money. I don't know whether to laugh or cry?

Charity? Humility? Reciprocity? Freedom of Faith? Truth? And of course...Love Thy Neighbor as Thyself????
I'm afraid Christians don't practice what they preach...at least at their forums. (Even the Buddhist whose mantra is 'Do No Harm' ban me 95% of the time at their forums, so they are only a little better than the Christians.)

Atheist forums are not much better at freethinking. Been banned at evil bible dot com, ethical atheist, Internet infidels, X-Christians and others.

How do I find peace with all this prejudice?

By knowing

"With the same material one man builds a palace and another only a hovel." Russell Cromwell.

And accepting people are not perfect, nor am I perfect

I agree with most comments of Anthony Bacevich. My one disagreement is about his approach to Al Queda.

He suggests that we need to use more police and FBI agents to defend against this criminal conspiracy.

I think the State Department needs to look into why these terrorists hate us so much. I have a belief that the terrorists hate us because of our support for Israel who have occupied Palestinian land for 40 years.

Every nation plus the UN disagree with the Israeli occupation and the US stands alone in condoning this.

I think if the US foreign policy re: Palestine were modified, the threat from the Islamic terrorists might be significantly reduced.

The problems of our society will never be solved until we recognize the truth about our government, and who really runs our society.

9/11 was an inside job. Any honest investigation of the event will discover this fact.

We didn't invade Afghanistan for Bin Laden.

Iraq had no WMD. Bush knew it. The Congress knew it. The media knew it. The military knew it. The CIA knew it.

Iran poses no threat.

But it doesn't matter. Our rulers do not care about the truth. They care about control. They view humanity as cattle. Cogs in the machine. Things to be used for their benefit alone.

As bad as Bush is, he is not really the problem. The powers that be were there before Bush, are there now, and will be after Bush regardless of who the new President is.

The solution must come from the people. They must refuse to comply. We will not tolerate violations of the Constitution. We will not fight your wars. We will not fund your wars. We will not buy your garbage. We will not listen to the joke media. We do not recognize your authority. The government is illegitimate.

Dissent is the answer.

I hate to say this, but iVillage is run by right-wingers. Their message board leans right, and there is a reason. iVillage has their finger on the right side of the scale. I know because I am proud to say I just got chucked off after quite a long time posting. I assiduously avoided personal attacks and anything that could be perceived as a TOS violation. I posted facts, facts and more facts showing that the right wing is out to lunch, nobody home. Our media, and our corporate owned web sites, all have their fingers on the scales for Republicans. This election should be an absolute landslide against the patently corrupt, lazy and incompetent bunch of Republican politicians running for all types of federal offices. Instead McCain can run around acting like a loose cannon and pick up 10 points in the polls because everyone gives him a free pass.

Here's my advice everyone. Join iVillage, join other web sites where the debate is happening and you are not just preaching to the converted. Keep getting the facts out. As I wrote in a recent diary, just the facts on oil alone are enough to make one gag on the Republicans' excuse for an energy policy: http://www.dailykos.com/...

I want my country back :(

Ali your starting to be annoying.

First gas prices went down because demand fell, and speculation slowed down.

If you don't like PBS or Bil Moyers change the channel.

Ali your statements are full of false statements and your just proving how the right thinks that by yelling loudly and repeating the BS enough that people will start believing in what your saying.

Your wrong and no one is listening.

Thank you for this. I won't repeat the wonderful comments by many informed people. The fix comes with an informed citizenry. Quotes have been provided already. Government can only do bad things when the citizens are dulled and in my experience my children are not getting a fraction of the education in the publically funded system that I did growing up in the 60's and 70's. My first year university student and all his friends do not have an understanding of "how the world works" and it is very sad.

Brilliant interview with Andrew Bacevich. The ideas and descriptions of the problems facing America were perfectly articulated. And with huge respect for Moyers and Bacevich, but why didn't Moyers ask Bacevich to propose a solution. Even hypothetical. I don't understand why he didn't ask that.

What is the purpose of articulating the problem with a high degree of precision and honesty, if not to carry it though to a suggestion for a remedy. We have enough reiterations and eloquent articulations of the problems facing this country. We have enough intangible ideals of what could be, or should be done. How about a simple blueprint for change that everyone can be a part of and actively pursue. I understand that informing people is part of the solution. But no one knows what to do with all this information. We can either intellectualize things until we're third world, or we can put our heads together and execute.

I don't have a plan. I'm just an average thinker, but my proposition is that: the minds that are wasting time reiterating the problems and posing idealistic abstractions should stop pandering to their own assembly, and propose something we, the common American citizen, can understand and can use today. Give us a solution.

I say, let's stop describing the problem and start making suggestions for remedies that we can all take part in right now. Is there an organization I can join? Is there a task I can do everyday? What can I do when I wake up tomorrow to start making a difference?

-ursus-

Brilliant interview with Andrew Bacevich. The ideas and descriptions of the problems facing America were perfectly articulated. And with huge respect for Moyers and Bacevich, but why didn't Moyers ask Bacevich to propose a solution. Even hypothetical. I don't understand why he didn't ask that.

What is the purpose of articulating the problem with a high degree of precision and honesty, if not to carry it though to a suggestion for a remedy. We have enough reiterations and eloquent articulations of the problems facing this country. We have enough intangible ideals of what could be, or should be done. How about a simple blueprint for change that everyone can be a part of and actively pursue. I understand that informing people is part of the solution. But no one knows what to do with all this information. We can either intellectualize things until we're third world, or we can put our heads together and execute.

I don't have a plan. I'm just an average thinker, but my proposition is that: the minds that are wasting time reiterating the problems and posing idealistic abstractions should stop pandering to their own assembly, and propose something we, the common American citizen, can understand and can use today. Give us a solution.

I say, let's stop describing the problem and start making suggestions for remedies that we can all take part in right now. Is there an organization I can join? Is there a task I can do everyday? What can I do when I wake up tomorrow to start making a difference?

-ursus-

Reading so many thoughtfull comments by so many engaged, intelligent participants gives me cause for hope and so I would like to reiterate one of the original talking points which asked generally what can be done to to fix this problem if in fact it is fixable.
Thanks,
Jim

The Fed is only 1 symptom, 1 component of a much more complex national security state, Allen Wrench. The entire mechanism of governance and economy is a putrid, rancid, lethal mess. You will have a hard time if you think you can "reform" the ebola virus!

Posted by: Concerned Citizen

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

I can't argue with you. And while diagnosing the disease may be half the battle, we have been living with the disease for some time. (and may soon be dying from it.)

The disease can go in 3 directions:

Get better, freeze or get worse.

While I have no illusions about a cure - can the virus be somewhat contained?

I agree with everything Professor Bacevich said in the interview. The thing that disturbs me the most is that our Congress has completely given over its powers under the Constitution to the executive and allowed the President to do whatever he and Cheney pleases. The new Democratic controlled Congress had the opportunity to end the war by exercising its power to withhold further funds and also to begin impeachment proceedings against Bush and Cheney. But the Democrats were afraid they would be called cowards and were not supporting the troops. To me, supporting the troops means questioning the administration on its decisions and stopping the war. If Iraq goes down the tubes, so be it. We have made a total mess of it. Also, the enormous debt we have racked up makes me very afraid for the future. And here Congressmen were asking Mr. Bacevich what he thought we should do about it!! Everyone in Washington is hiding from this financial trainwreck as if they are not on the train with everyone else. I don't know what the answer is but we somehow must make our Congress and Executive work properly in accordance with the Constitution.

Dr. Bacevich comes across as one of the most thoughtful persons I have ever heard speak. I thinks outside of the box and has a very clear perspective as to what is really going on with our country. Only wish all Americans could, or would , hear what he has to say so clearly. I could not be more impressed.

Alan Watts use to say we define ourselves by our enemies. We define ourselves by what we are not. He used the example of 'Beatniks and Squares' which were the in fad opposites back in his day. So of course it is natural for conservatives and liberals to view themselves as polar opposites. (and enemies)

When we invest excessive time and energies in acquiring or building attachments (such as liberal or conservative) these attachments become veritable extensions of our being and come to define us for ourselves as well as define who we are to others.

When these attachments take on this role we become susceptible to pain via these extensions. If the person, place or thing we are attached to gets rebuked it is a personal rebuke on us, if they get damaged or defaced so goes the defacement and damage to our very being.

It is hard to become fully detached with ideas, for if we did we would be like a feather floating wherever the wind blew us and would pick up any old idea with no firm grounding of what we perceive as right or wrong. But many of us make our judgments solely on 'who' says what, instead of 'what' is said.

If we have trouble looking at things with an open mind, we can practice dropping the prejudice for a moment and look at ideas without the preconceived 'no good's' that we immediately hit ideas with. This becomes easier the more you open your mind and practice being truth based. Although as soon as attachments form, be warned...honor dies where the interest lies...it is just human nature.

Although I am not very religious nowadays and am an agnostic freethinker, the bible reminds us "Test everything; hold fast to what is good; abstain from every form of evil," (1 Thess. 5:21)

Even if you are an atheist, this concept of testing can be of help to you. For with such tests, 'the proof of the pudding will be in the eating' and decisions on will not be left only to your ego, but will be grounded in truth. And as soon as you open yourself up to testing you can release some of the prejudice that has been blocking you on your search for truth.

Now, sometime the truth is relative, sometimes truth is a best fit scenario. But generally we can say the truth is that which does not change.

This is not so just because people have the cleverest argument to prove such things. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. (testing) If it was otherwise, the spin doctors would be the kings and queen of inner peace and truth.

What is rhetoric (spin) based on?

Truth?

No...rhetoric is based on making the lie 'appear' as if it was truth.

Rhetoric is based on ego.The truth can be tested. The rhetoricians lies do not hold up to testing - they only hold up as lip service.

The truth can only be found from a 'choice divorced from need'...we divorce the need to massage our ego and become honest with ourselves and others.

"Trade curses everything it touches and even though you trade in 'messages from heaven' trade attaches itself and the whole thing becomes cursed." ~ Thoreau.

Where do I begin?

"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure DOMESTIC tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

In 2008, our Founding Fathers would be ashamed.

Michael Marescalco,

We NEED people who know of what they speak, and are not afraid to speak truth to power. I recall recently, when we lost the wonderful David Halberstam to a tragic automobile accident, that Mr Moyers was recounting a conversation he had had with David. It went something like this: Mr Halberstam responded to Bill Moyers' question about people in power by saying, "Bill, the closer you get to people in power, the further away you get from the truth."

AMEN!

The Fed is only 1 symptom, 1 component of a much more complex national security state, Allen Wrench. The entire mechanism of governance and economy is a putrid, rancid, lethal mess. You will have a hard time if you think you can "reform" the ebola virus!

Mr.Moyer:

My interest in giving a response to your interview with Andrew J Bacevich is a compelling feeling to support his clear articulation of the problems of this nation. Enthralling was his assessment and affirmative to my less articulate yet fully cognizant perceptions of our deeply troubled nation. As a former U.S. Army Vietnam Veteran, I too have been very troubled by the course of US foreign policy starting from before I returned from Vietnam until this very day. This we have in common. I think I was actually physically ill about our foreign policy during the years of the Ronald Regan and Bush Regimes.

Since World War II the United States has been the prime purveyor and guardian of global capitalism. The Bretton Woods Agreement makes this clear enough. Since World War II the United States has given hundreds of billions in military aid to train, equip, and subsidize more than 3 million troops and internal security forces in some eighty countries. The purpose of this aid was not to defend them from outside invasions but to protect ruling oligarchs and multinational corporate investors from the dangers of domestic anti-capitalist insurgency. During the 10 year conflict in Nicaragua the enemy in that country was a Christian socialist government under the Sandinistas. In Chile the enemy was a social democracy under the Allende government. Operation Condor, was supported by the economist Milton Freidman to my understanding. The list goes on and on, millions have been murdered, tortured, and disappeared as a result of the policies and actions of the U.S. national security state. After Vietnam and all the political unrest it inspired here at home, these wars were conducted under the veil of low intensity conflict as proxy wars propping up savage pro capitalist forces and regimes.

One of the great lies about U.S. foreign policy is that it stands for freedom and democracy. It is a preposterous statement to say that the U.S. government is interested in protecting democracy and freedom. There is the lie in the current administrations stated second reason for the continuing occupation in Iraq. A little history goes a long way in understanding the reason for U.S. foreign policy. We need to get the history right.

Only a fool would suppose that the U.S. media was not infiltrated by the same national security state that is running U.S. foreign policy on behalf of multinational corporate interests. If this were not the case we might see truly objective reporting on south and central America. In fact, it is painfully obvious that those countries do not even exist when it comes to the amount of news coverage they receive from the majority of the press.

Take the recent incursion of Georgian Security forces, armed and trained by the U.S. national security state, into South Osetia and you have a prime example of how the administrations spin on this event turns the victims into the aggressors. The media is doing a little better on this than they had back in the days of the Ronald Reagan and Bush Regime, but the pressure the U.S. is putting on the Europeans to support sanctions is turning the whole picture upside down. One report I heard stated clearly that the conflict originally broke out when Georgian troops entered South Osetia, yet the Russian defense was being labeled as invaders of a sovereign state. 20 years ago Georgia and Azerbaijan were Soviet States and the oil in the Caspian Sea was the property of Russia.

I do feel that regardless of deception or what the media does, that the very realities we face as a nation will force the people out of Disney Land. Upon their arrival to reality I hope that the shock does not lead to a massive breakdown in social order or that “black day” that Professor Bacevich alluded to will be upon us like Katrina. Those in power will take advantage of the people in a state of massive shock and execute plans already laid out in advance. Naomi Klein has covered that aspect of capitalist design in her book, The Shock Doctrine. I still see people out pulling boats on the weekend when the price of gas is nearly 4 dollars a gallon. Hello…wake up America. Is anybody out there. I guess they didn’t know the party was over and its time to stay home.

The reexamination of our liberal ideas of freedom without the corresponding responsibilities they carry is an important part of the path forward that will free us from our current condition of dysfunction. But it is but a part only. Once you realize your government is a national security state apparatus hijacked by multinational capitalist corporate criminals then all you have to do is look in the mirror and your problems will be solved. I know it’s a little Gonzo to say this, but what the hell if you turn the mirror a little sideways there’s a lot more to see than just our desire to consume. Consumers are not responsible for making themselves consumers. Our glorious capitalist economic system and the controllers of its media apparatus thrust these ideas into the minds of the people. They pounded them every minute of the day with consumer content until they were like the children in Aldous Huxley’s, Brave New World, who were fed the state policy in their beds as they sleep. The collapse of the Bretton Woods agreement in the 1970’s and the British accumulation of gold raped from South Africa and the rise of Japans industrial base is what took those jobs away from America displaced to China. We don’t need education, its not our fault we are in debt, the capitalists abandoned us for cheap exploitation over the pond and took our jobs with them. Those Chinese are trained to work in those factories. They don’t have any special educational or scholarly background. Indeed, great truths are contained in small absurdities. Who’s responsible? The multinational banks and those who control world capital movements are in the drivers seat.

But no one ever seems to get the why part right. Greed for more money to make more money is not the whole picture either. Monetary wealth is only an illusion used by those in power to maintain power. To maintain power is to have the best technology. To have the best technology is to be capitalist and powerful. To advance technology at the speed of light would not be fast enough for those who hold the power. Economic growth is the driving force behind technological development. Capitalism is the meanest and baddest evolutionary economic driver of growth ever developed by man.

Of the remnants of the intent in our former constitutional system and the reexamination of what we can validly call, “our rights,” and what of them we must reject in light of our current understanding of the reality of the system in which those rights are claimed, both the system and the rights must be subjected to examination. We cannot reexamine our rights in the context of the system that is presently broken or we will fail to a false application. Worse yet the system is not really broken. The system is gone. It is not democracy and freedom that this current administration stands for but the imperial domination of the entire planet in a never ending war to defend the world for capitalist exploitation. This makes looking in the mirror as a means to solve our problems seem much more complicated. We’ll be looking in the mirror as we are marched to our final destination in the FEMA death camps.

As Proffessor Basevich has pointed to the preamble of our constitution as a beginning point, I would surely recommend that an eco-humanistic approach to our system repair is about the only hope we have. In a world of some nearly 7 billion and the current balance of debt due to Mother Natures account, if we take seriously our commitment to future generations, we must truly get our house in order, starting with our own nation to set the example. Then the rest of the world will envy us.

For the purpose of this requirement, I would suggest that the methods we need to employ are those that have already been worked out by the late Professor Emeritus of Human Ecology, Garrett Hardin. He gives us lessons on thinking correctly in his 1985 book, FILTERS AGAINST FOLLY, How to Survive Despite Economists, Ecologists, and the Merely Eloquent. However his later book, Oxford University Press 1993, LIVING WITHIN LIMITS, Ecology, Economics, and Population Taboos, is in my opinion, the ultimate reference resource for an intellectual guiding light to the path humanity must choose.

As for myself, I am afraid I have lost hope for any simple future that our country can transition into without a major reduction in the human population as the remorseless consequence of some critical natural threshold overshoot in the very near future.

In fact, Mr. Moyer, I believe our country has multiple problems of the grim reaper type standing in line all the way down the block and knocking on our front door as a result of actions that, as Mr. Bacevich mentioned, stem from the inaction and actions taken by our government, all the way back to the Kennedy, Johnson and Nixon era, and maybe even further. I was born in 1951, and I knew by the late 1960’s that overpopulation was representative of one of the great threats to the future of our nations people. Did Kennedy not know this? Did Congress not know this? I believe they knew this truth. The decision was to discount the future for humanity and full speed ahead for technology. That is why a laissez-faire attitude on population growth has been maintained, although economic oppression has always been used as a form of control on the working class as a sort of economic tool to weed out the bad genes, or in another term “economic genocide.” Just weeding out the garden and only planting the best consumer seed for the new crop.

We need a pretty big mirror to look into and we need a way to reevaluate our perceived freedoms which I believe had been mostly worked out by the late Professor Hardin. This is usually a judicial matter, but I believe the judicial branch of this current government incapable of , and unqualified to make such determinations. These decisions should not depart from the Natural Human and Scientific methods prescribed by Professor Hardin. But I doubt there is time for the kind of changes needed before the procession of intervention on behalf of one or two of natures grim reapers are upon us.

My concern with those who are in the thrones of power over our nation is that they may intend to carry out the role of natures grim reaper, with them doing the picking and choosing in advance. In my opinion this is the more appropriate issue to address at the moment and I have no army to carry out my duty sir. So perhaps we should welcome the undoing of our nation and give hope that one of our good neighbors will give us a hand and help us out… but I wouldn’t count on it. Russia provoked may step in to clean up this mess, but with bio weapons. We have no defense against this calamity.

I want to have hope for the future and I don’t believe I have missed the point of Professor Bacevich, but it seems to me that the time for fundamental change from within and taking a good look in the mirror is past due and cannot be retrieved until other matters are settled, or we will only fail again, to an illusion.

Michael A. Marescalco August 20, 2008
Vietnam Veteran
Eco-Humanist, Social Egalitarian, Citizen of the World

Mother Natures Laws Trump Mans Laws and Mans’ Gods Laws

I do want to thank you Bill Moyers, for all you have done over all these years to seek out the truth for all Americans in your profession as a journalist. My life, and I’m sure many others have been greatly enriched by your very presence in the sphere of our understanding and sharing in common, the thoughts and ideas of so many great thinking people that you have given voice to through your PBS Journal. And, that being said, seems inadequate but will have to do, it is a privilege and an opportunity I take, to honor you so. Good work!

You wanted my input?

OK T. Rex and C.C.

I'll pose the same question I asked Bryan to you - but regarding the Fed.

"....you know what is wrong...so you must also know what is right to know the wrong?"

It is agreed that the Fed has done a bang up job of micromanaging our economy into shambles, while making the select connected few in power richer

But would you consider the Fed the lesser of 2 evils, when compared to a country with 'no Fed' at all?

And if you consider the Fed to be the highest evil, then what is your proposal to replace the Fed with?

It's refreshing to see someone who identifies as a conservative (Bacevich) critique not only the current president, but every administration from J.F.K. onward for their imperialistic crimes. Progressive political debate transcends party lines to discuss the facts as they stand, and Bacevich has called all politicians to the table in this respect.

As a nation we need to keep on our politicans, as Bacevich stated, even those who say they are on our side such as Baraq Obama. I was furious at Nancy Pelosi after her firey anti-Bush speeches, followed by a term in Congress marked by little to no action.

Thanks again Mr. Moyers for this report, keep the quality journalism coming.

T Rex is spot ON! The fact of elite ownership and control of the economy is NEVER mentioned by either Moyers OR Bacevich. The Federal Reserve, far from providing any regulatory constraints on the largest and most powerful banking institution (JP Morgan) when it was created in 1913, actually strengthened and further empowered the House of Morgan!

The elite have almost TOTAL command and control of the machinery of government, so it is LUDICROUS when we hear "critiques" from guys like Moyers or Bacevich! They IGNORE that 800-lb gorilla of "who really owns and operates the economy AND the government?"

Profits are privatized, while costs, risks and negative consequences are socialized! The JUDICIARY? Well, THEY are the ones who declared a corporation to be a "person", thus giving corporations all the rights and privileges of a human being, without holding them accountable the way human beings are under the law. LUDICROUS!

This video was very artful manipulation of reality. While I think almost everything the good Colonel says is true, it (as per usual) ignores the 800 pound gorilla in the room. People aren't inherently lazy, irresponsible and ignorant consuming machines. The fact that most people think cheap gasoline, juicy cheeseburgers and a constant barrage of entertainment and sporting events are a manifestation of the dreams our forefathers had for this nation has been endlessly promoted and in a very concerted manner, sold to us. Logically, we are genetically identical to the people who lived before the Federal Reserve, the Zionist Congress and the Council on Foreign Relations existed. And the portrayal of the government as the well-meaning, bumbling and misguided parent almost made me spit up my coffee! The ineptitude of our government is a favorite way to veil what's really going on, and in my estimation one of the older tricks in the book.

No matter the I.Q., the human mind is essentially just like a computer's random access memory. Shovel it full of enough feces and lo and behold, you are unlikely to get gems back in return. And when nearly all knowledge and information comes from the same sewage pile, just imagine blaming the computer! And imagine the power the owner of that sewage pile has.

Just like the first 30 seconds of the video in which Mr. Moyers ignores the fact that Georgian forces attacked South Ossetia BEFORE Russia got involved in Georgia, he and the Colonel ignore the well known perpetrators and go straight to the investigation. Doing this guarantees no resolution or disclosure of the perpetrator's identity, while sounding concerned, intellectual and journalistic at the same time. Imagine being able to talk this thoughtfully and at this length about debt, questionable war entanglements and empire building without a single mention of the Federal Reserve at the very least?

SOME people might think Grady Lee Howard's post below is uncommonly cynical and/or pessimistic. Quite the contrary! Guys like Bacevich and Moyers have been feeding off the system for their entire careers. Granted, these 2 men are NOT Karl Rove and Dick Cheney, but neither ONE of them is using his elevated position of visibility and power to call for Bush's or Cheney's impeachment for violations of their oath of office! To the extent that the system allows voices of "dissent" to speak out (people like Noam Chomsky, Bacevich in this instance, Frank Rich, Bob Woodward, John Dean, Vincent Bugliosi, etc etc), to THAT extent we can extrapolate the strength and resilience of the power of the ruling elite. Elections and academic dissent bother them not a whit! Only mass action and popular protest frightens the elite, a la the mass movements of the 1960's. THEN the batons and the guns come out with a vengeance! Debate and orderly discussion? PLEASE! Sure, go ahead! Debate all you WANT! The elite will even fund you to have “nice” discussions about any issue you please.

Obviously, the population is just not "uncomfortable" enough yet to go beyond anything more than whining and "debate".

Professor Bacevich's admonition for us to take a look in the mirror suggested to me the Abraham Lincoln quote:

"At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we fortify against it? Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant, to step the Ocean, and crush us at a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest; with a Buonaparte for a commander, could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trial of a thousand years. At what point, then, is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide."
-- Abraham Lincoln, Address Before the Young Men's Lyceum of Springfield, Illinois (January 27, 1838

Andrew Bacevich's interview was just one man's book, and one man's opinion. Those of you who were transfixed, called away from the Yankee's game and the Olympics, maybe even crying, are symptomatic of our manipulated and pitiful citizenry. I was amazed that several immature minds recommended Bacevich for President, a Colonel you hardly know in a short interview. He said himself that it doesn't matter who is president because the system of empire operates sui generis, get it?

Even without using an allen wrench, Bill Moyers has gotten a phenomenal response on this blog. Lat week's piece about the exploitation of the captive underclass almost made me suspend his hostage status, but this reversion to book shilling form has made me reinstate it. Bill Moyers has now been a media hostage 206 days!

The Bacevich interview (and book) do have value. He is a personification of our officer corps. The "Policeman of the World" has just tendered his resignation because of the futility and corruption he has witnessed. He mistakenly blames consumerism for our empirical cascade failure. This is like blaming the caged chickens for eating the feed they are given. The loss of his son is symptomatic of our dead future. He does recognize an elite with interests contrary to those of the country and admits our "democracy" is a sham, procedural only. Patriotism without comprehension of reality is only a delusion. Laverne Wheeler (Aug.17-3:09pm) got it right when she warned us that not every man in uniform is a hero. I see Andrew Bacevich as a depressed and deluded military man who realizes now that his career efforts were futile, and wants to blame the rest of us for not worshipping the military.

I agree with Amitola (Aug.15-10:01pm) that the conspiracy of 9/11 was the last gasp of the extraction pump placed upon worker productivity and the meager property of the majority of Americans. The United States has been a hype and a fraud from the beginning because it was established by a monied elite for persons like themselves and has only made material concessions to prime the pump.

I wish this unsustainable world could be slowly deflated in a caring way, but I wonder if the feedlot has proven too expensive and the overlords are planning a big cull. As subaware as people are made to be by socialization, indoctrination (masquerading as "education") and media I doubt the wealthy and powerful (feeling so entitled) have anything to fear besides their own sadism (could cause friction among the sharks). But I see here on the blog that about 5% are awake, laughing about the Big Daddyism of Ron Paul fanatics and the little property dispute in "South Upsettia". Don't you realize that Imperial Russia, Beehive China and the Arab-bopping USA are all the same thing? Maybe Bill and Col. Bacevich will realize it next year, if there is a next year.

I'm thankful for oil and food price spikes and for ecological peril if it helps wake humanity to their potential. (Sacred property is a babyish illusion. That's how they "get" you.)

Very disturbing.

Most respondents didn’t get past “Do you agree…”, wasting space with a longer or shorter version of “yes”.
The next largest group had some sort of “we’re not virtuous enough”, whether too much consumption, or too little religion. Yes, things would get better if we were all wonderful people, but that would require some very careful genetic engineering. The framers of the Constitution understood that people were imperfect, and that no system that relied upon human virtue could function in the real world. Not useful.
A smaller number of Libertarians responded stereotypically that the answer was less government, in one form or another. Again, not particularly useful.
Four or five posters must have produced at least 10% of total text. Seriously, put some limits on responses. Also suffers from a lack of subthreads for responses to responses.
A handful of people attempted to actually address the focus points, but were so separated by chaff that a serious dialog was impossible.
This was almost entirely a waste of three hours of my life. Get some moderators, or at least some auto-limits, or I never bother with this again.

Posted by: Bryan Williams

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

No reason to be disturbed Bryan.

An ancient Zen master tells us "Attain deliverance in disturbances".

So instead of telling others they are disturbing you - YOU write about what is disturbing YOU from the inside out and not from the outside in.

Expectations are pre-planned resentments and it seems you have high exceptions on how people should write their posts to please you.

Moderators?

Stifling discussion Bryan??

There is no shame in the discussion of truth Bryan, the only shame is in the blocking of such discussion.

Sure, 'fleas come with the dog' as our Taoist friends tell us, so we must accept that freedom of speech will have its fleas . But the alternative of 'lack of freedom' will be much worse than a few fleas Bryan.

Whenever some of you get disturbed by my posts, always remember, you do not pay me to write for you. I am not obligated in any way to write what you want to hear.

If you want a topic written about in a certain way, then you write it or hire a writer to write for you. But I am under NO obligation to please you in any way with what I write. The only master I serve when I write is that of truth.

No doubt Bryan, perfection is the nature of gods and imperfection is the nature of humans. There is no debate about that. But honesty from our leaders is not something that is beyond their grasp as imperfect humans - we are not asking them to do back flips.

We are all born honest, it is our ego that makes us dishonest Bryan.

While you outline many of our imperfections within this thread, you failed to give us the 'right' answer. After all you know what is wrong...so you must also know what is right to know the wrong?

So lets have it...instead of criticizing others, share your wisdom on how to decrease the sickness in Washington and our country. How can we take a step in the right direction to make things better, albeit not perfect in the US of A?

And one other thing.

If you wish to be at peace with the subject of controlling others, you should realize it is not your place to tell others how long to write their posts - your ONLY job, as a devotee of inner peace, would be to decide if you wish to read them Bryan.

"The highest object that human beings can set before themselves is not the pursuit of any such chimera as the annihilation of the unknown: it is simply the unwearied endeavor to remove its boundaries a little further from our little sphere of action." ~ Huxley

Very disturbing.

Most respondents didn’t get past “Do you agree…”, wasting space with a longer or shorter version of “yes”.
The next largest group had some sort of “we’re not virtuous enough”, whether too much consumption, or too little religion. Yes, things would get better if we were all wonderful people, but that would require some very careful genetic engineering. The framers of the Constitution understood that people were imperfect, and that no system that relied upon human virtue could function in the real world. Not useful.
A smaller number of Libertarians responded stereotypically that the answer was less government, in one form or another. Again, not particularly useful.
Four or five posters must have produced at least 10% of total text. Seriously, put some limits on responses. Also suffers from a lack of subthreads for responses to responses.
A handful of people attempted to actually address the focus points, but were so separated by chaff that a serious dialog was impossible.
This was almost entirely a waste of three hours of my life. Get some moderators, or at least some auto-limits, or I never bother with this again.

No truer words than (to paraphrase) there is nothing written in the Preamble that we need to remake the world in our image. What arrogance that politicians would even think this is acceptable?
I so agree with Dr. Bacevich. Please look in the mirror!
I would encourage everyone to examine closely the voting records of Senators and Representatives and if they truly are not doing the job you think they should, FIRE THEM!
I also want to extend my sympathy to Dr. Bacevich on the loss of his son.

What's depressing, though, is to read the comments: American citizens lamenting how bad their situation is?

Posted by: Otto Stinkenbruck

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

Putting our complaints down on pen and paper first crystallizes in our heads what needs to be changed or accepted in our lives.

Getting it all out and putting it all down is the first start of this recognition process that leads us to change.

Without this recognition, that something is wrong in our lives, we cannot develop the desire for change. We don't even know what is wrong to change!

Writing your complaints down is the first start to making the roadmap for restructuring your life. Restructuring our lives is very important if we want to get peace.

Those things that cannot be restructured need to be accepted. Either way we can find peace -- by change or acceptance.

When you write, it uses a different part of the brain that mere speaking. Writing also helps crystallize your thoughts.

Just remember what the Buddhists say in the eightfold path about right actions. We have to use the right thoughts, the right actions and take the right direction with change. Just spinning our wheels in the wrong direction does little, so write about things that matter to you and your change.

(And in line with the eightfold path - my apologies for 'wrong speech' in my prior post.)

As always, Bill Moyer's show was a welcome change in the drudgery of what passes off as news in this country. What's depressing, though, is to read the comments: American citizens lamenting how bad their situation is? People, I'm not allowed to vote in this country, but I read the newspaper and try to stay informed. What Moyers is broadcasting on his show should not be news to you--it's the result of your complacency and inactivity! You wonder what you should do? Go out onto the streets, protest, start a revolution, burn your credit cards,... Oh, I forgot, that would be impolite, we can't be nasty to the people in charge. I'm sorry folks, if you're waking up now it's too late. Following generations will learn about the United States of America as a distant myth, destroyed by couch potatos to afraid to act as the citizens they pretended to be.

Posted by: Otto Stinkenbruck

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

Please excuse my language if it is offensive to you.

Vote?

Voting got us into the mess we are in. Voting wont fix a damn thing Otto.

I have not voted since I was in college and got extra credit for voting in an election. That was in 1970's - my first and last time voting.

Lets see...should I vote for piece of shit 'A' or piece of shit 'B'???

I would wait in line overnight if there was something or someone worthwhile to vote for.

But even if a decent candidate showed up, the pieces of shit would be back within short order.

And I am not demanding that a candidate walk on water. Just be honest with me..tell it like it is.

But alas, pieces of shit can't talk truth, they just leave a trail of stench in their wake as they spin their webs of deceit.

Otto, the best we can hope for in the US, is 'to hope' the pieces of shit do not do too much damage to our country while they are screwing us.

...and the sad thing is pretty soon we wont even be able to use Vaseline while they are doing us...as that is made from crude oil as well.

As far as the Russia / George conflict....

"The fantasy that we can sustain our influence nine thousand miles away, when we can't even get our act together in Ohio is just a dark joke. One might state categorically that it would be a salubrious thing for America to knock off all its vaunted "dreaming" and just wake the frak up. "

SCO the New Warsaw Pact, Counterpoint to NATO

Is the SCO, which consists of China, Russia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan, on the verge of being transformed into a new Warsaw Pact, a Eurasian counterbalance to the US-led North Atlantic Treaty Organization(NATO)?

Pavel Felgenhauer, a Russian defense analyst, who observed: "As Moscow's relations with the West deteriorate, the Kremlin is doing its best to seek allies and is building up the SCO to counterbalance NATO.

Meanwhile, the Russian newspaper Kommersant, in an article tellingly titled "Maneuvers to go around the United States", sees the exercises and the summit that will follow in Bishkek as part of a renewed Russian effort to push back against the US "on all fronts", from opposing plans to deploy missile-defense components in central-eastern Europe to "expelling" the US from Central Asia altogether.

RFE/RL: Representatives from the Shanghai Cooperation Organization have repeatedly said the organization's military cooperation is not aimed at any third country or party, yet the military exercises seem to be growing in size. Wouldn't this trend naturally be a cause of concern for the U.S. or NATO?

Stephen Blank: Certainly it would be. But although the SCO's representatives always say that it's not aimed at a third country or party, if you look at their communiques going back to 2001 -- and even before that to the Sino-Russian communiques and the formation of the six-party border agreements -- their communiques have always been full of coded anti-American foreign policy statements. So for Russia and China, it's aimed at American interests. And the size of these exercises is growing, and many experts do not believe that they are confined only to so-called antiterrorist activities, or even just to Central Asia. The August 2005 Sino-Russian exercises, which were conducted under the auspices of the SCO, were so large and [they] so thoroughly combined arms and major-theater conventional warfare in their approach, that people believed these were aimed as much at Taiwan and Korea as they were at any potential Central Asian contingency.

link: (removed due to censorship guidelines)

link: (removed due to censorship guidelines)

Russia's Return Bites the Neocons' Grand Energy Scheme in the Ass

At the time this gambit was first set up, in the early 1990s, there was some notion (or wish, really) among the so-called western powers that the Caspian would provide an end-run around OPEC and the Arabs, as well as the Persians, and deliver all the oil that the US and Europe would ever need -- a foolish wish and a dumb gambit, as things have turned out.

For one thing, the latterly explorations of this very old oil region -- first opened to drilling in the 19th century -- proved somewhat disappointing. US officials had been touting it as like unto "another Saudi Arabia" but the oil actually produced from the new drilling areas of Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, and the other Stans turned out to be preponderantly heavy-and-sour crudes, in smaller quantities than previously dreamed-of, and harder to transport across the extremely challenging terrain to even get to the pipeline head in Baku.

It's one thing that US foreign policy wonks imagined that Russia would remain in a coma forever, but the idea that we could encircle Russia strategically with defensible bases in landlocked mountainous countries halfway around the world…? You have to ask what were they smoking over at the Pentagon and the CIA and the NSC?

So, this asinine policy has now come to grief. Not only does Russia stand to gain control over the Baku-to-Ceyhan pipeline, but we now have every indication that they will bring the states on its southern flank back into an active sphere of influence, and there is really not a damn thing that the US can pretend to do about it.

This must be an equally sobering moment for Europe, and an additional reason for the recent plunge in the relative value of the Euro, for Europe is now at the mercy of Russia in terms of staying warm in the winter, running their kitchen stoves, and keeping the lights on. Russia also exerts substantial financial leverage over the US in all the dollars and securitized US debt paper it holds. In effect, Russia can shake the US banking system at will now by threatening to dump its dollar holdings.

The American banking system may not need a shove from Russia to fall on its face. It's effectively dead now, just lurching around zombie-like from one loan "window" to the next pretending to "borrow" capital -- while handing over shreds of its moldy clothing as "collateral" to the Federal Reserve. The entire US, beyond the banks, is becoming a land of the walking dead. Business is dying, home-ownership has become a death dance, whole regions are turning into wastelands of "for sale" signs, empty parking lots, vacant buildings, and dashed hopes. And all this beats a path directly to a failure of collective national imagination. We really don't know what's going on.

The fantasy that we can sustain our influence nine thousand miles away, when we can't even get our act together in Ohio is just a dark joke. One might state categorically that it would be a salubrious thing for America to knock off all its vaunted "dreaming" and just wake the frak up.

link: (removed due to censorship guidelines)

by Cid_Yama

As always, Bill Moyer's show was a welcome change in the drudgery of what passes off as news in this country. What's depressing, though, is to read the comments: American citizens lamenting how bad their situation is? People, I'm not allowed to vote in this country, but I read the newspaper and try to stay informed. What Moyers is broadcasting on his show should not be news to you--it's the result of your complacency and inactivity! You wonder what you should do? Go out onto the streets, protest, start a revolution, burn your credit cards,... Oh, I forgot, that would be impolite, we can't be nasty to the people in charge. I'm sorry folks, if you're waking up now it's too late. Following generations will learn about the United States of America as a distant myth, destroyed by couch potatos to afraid to act as the citizens they pretended to be.

Slightly off topic but the behavior is undeniable. The problems right now with Russia/Georgia is effectively provocation and escalation by the current U.S. administration.
The Bush administration unilateral pull out (abrogation) of the 1971 ABM Treaty to pursue missile network in eastern Europe on 13 Dec, 2001, Bush gave Russia notice of the U.S. withdrawal from the treaty. Putin said neither Iran nor North Korea had the weapons that the US was seeking to shoot down: "We are being told the anti-missile defense system is targeted against something that does not exist. Doesn't it seem funny to you?" he asked." The USN has shown successful anti-satellite capability from US navy ships. Surly this gives far (far) more "missile defense" flexibility with respect to North Korea/Iran? By perusing a missile network in eastern Europe, near Russian borders, and NOT near N Korea or Iran, we’re (the U.S.) is on the wrong side of this issue I’m afraid. This is to start a new arms race, with the money we no longer have.
What a mess...

Olaf Brescia / Sacramento, CA

Well, the cat's out of the bag!

*Our "leadership" is complicit in some of the most egregious violations of domestic and international law imaginable.

*Without hyperbole, corporate interests have tightened their death-grip on the American populace.

*Torture and "rendered" prisoners are now a fact of life in America's jurisprudence lexicon AND in reality.

*Electoral politics have been totally hijacked by the corporate elite in order to ensure that "the right people" attain high office.

*The social contract, the Constitution of the USA, and the social safety net that was put in place under FDR have all been systematically shredded and dismantled.

*Basic necessities like reliable food and potable water are being increasingly compromised.

*Healthcare, education and housing are becoming less and leaa accessible to the general population.

*Our taxes are being funnelled into the agendas of the rich and powerful without any accountability to those who PAY.

*Draconian measures like The Patriot Act are empowering the elite to pave the way for wholesale incarceration of "undesireable elements", without any recourse to due process.

All this and MUCH, MUCH MORE is happening right in front of our noses, and yet there seems to be NO energized mass expression of protest or popular outrage. These are, in my opinion, the precursors to a massive and swift erosion of all of America's most sacred and cherished core values, as enunciated in the Declaration of Independence, the United States Constitution, and other historic documents throughout our relatively brief history as a nation. Moyers and Bacevich gave expression to a very SMALL fraction of our societal problems. For THAT they are laudable. The scope of what we are facing as a society in the next 25 years is horrific!

What an outstanding program. I so appreciate watching The Journal - and this program was one of the best I've ever seen. Mr. Bacevich encapsulates, with great clarity, how far afield the United States has strayed from our own founding principles. And at the root of it - our addiction to our stuff.

Our society has been living a fantasy, and ultimately we all must face reality. Unfortunately, most of the time we wait until the situation becomes too painful to ignore before we change.

Gentlemen, thanks for your terrific work. Mr. Bacevich, I'll be buying your book and passing it along to my sons. I classify myself as a conservative (independent), but for this 45 year old who voted for Reagan (twice), the past eight years has transformed my political outlook. Kudos to you both for bringing great information and analysis to the public. It is much appreciated.

It would be nice PBS if you got yourself a decent forum where it would not take responders 3 days to try and get a post through. If you don't wish to have certain people post here, why not ban them and let them get on with their participation elsewhere where they may have their thoughts published. Use some of your PBS donation money to buy just a basic forum that works right - AW
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by: jeff

Allen Wrench made some comments about buying salmon in Walmart that came from Alaska by way of China.

Allen if you can stop shopping at Walmart they should be boycotted.

The attitude of the person behind that counter sums up how complacent we have become.

IF you have a lawn and more that 6 hours of sun rip it up and plant a garden. Get rid if the lawn grow as much
your own produce as possible...

...I don't have any answers for this problem except short of some kind of revolution.

This does not mean it has to be violent, it could be like the velvet revolution that took place in the former Czechoslovakia.

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

Hi Jeff.

Thanks for your reply.

Yes, good advice about growing food Jeff. I just got started 2/11/08 with my garden.

link: (removed due to censorship guidelines)

link: (removed due to censorship guidelines)

And revolution...well if nothing changes...nothing changes. The greedy power hungry, dishonest politicians are too entrenched in DC to change without some drastic force being applied. Why would they change when they can screw their pages and the American public at the same time, as well as lining their pockets with dollar bills?

If the people really wanted change, they need to form massive citizen oversight committees and shut the country down with demonstrations when they see the knuckleheads in DC start to screw up. And I mean shut the entire country down. But this is just a pipe dream Jeff, as the sheeple will do nothing.

There is no oversight committee for DC and the politicians have free reign to do just as they please. Sure once in a while a token politician gets caught with their hands in the money bag, but most of the time nothing happens to corrupt politicians.

Integrity, ethics and moral values are a rare commodity nowadays. All we have to do is look at out current financial mess to see that we have become a a nation of poker playing, gambling addicts rolling the dice, even at the highest levels of 'so called' safe investing.

Jeff, boycotting is not that simple sometimes when we have to choose between boycotting and eating.

When I walked into Krogers the other day I could not find any wild fish at all. Their whole fish supply was farm raised poison. The farm raised salmon from Chile and other locals is loaded with PCB's - I don't want to eat it. I was so happy to find something wild at Walmart. But when I saw it was from China, I was turned off.

And to make matters worse, many of us can't even afford to 'even try' and eat right if one is in the working class with a family with such high produce prices. Krogers wanted $7 for a butternut squash $3 for one rutabaga, almost $2 for an apple, over $3 for a large tomato, $14.50 for a small bag of cherries, $6 for an organic yam and an artichoke was close to $5.

But, this is only the tip of the iceberg, for crude has not even risen that high when compared to what he future holds for us Jeff. And as goes crude so goes our food costs.

We are in world of trouble Jeff and unless they figure out how to burn water and air and make tires and pave our roads from corn, there is going to be a lot of pain in our future. And we just wont be spectators of pain, as one responder commented...we will all be participants.

I try to buy US as much as I can, but many times we have no other choice than imports. And pretty soon Kmart and Sears will go under and Walmart will even be further entrenched. But Kmart and Sears are just mini Walmart's, full of Chinese crap anyway, so they are all cut from the same cloth.

As was noted in the Imperial Presidency TV program, some time in our past we stopped making stuff and just started consuming stuff, and it is starting to catch up with us now. But, even if we want back to being producers, we would still run into problems since our population is so large and our power supply of fossil fuels is running out.

The World Coal Institute estimates world energy reserves as follows:

"At current production levels coal will be available for at least the next 155 years compared to 41 years for oil and 65 years for gas."

link: (removed due to censorship guidelines)

And don't feel like you have it made and can get the prize for driving up to a gas station 41 years from now to buy that last gallon of gas. Long before the crude dries up, the government must 'secure a supply' of crude for it own national security needs. (and that goes for NG too!)

No doubt, gasoline / diesel will eventually be rationed by a hierarchy of needs.

1 Gov and military
2 Transports
3 Local Services
4 A few gallons a week for the general public.

So we will be out of the loop way before the crude run dry.

Life as we know it in America as well as the world will be in for an abrupt change in the not so distant future. And in the big picture, we can't fix the problem, we can only postpone the inevitable. But buying a little more time would make things much more livable than the current path we are headed in.

But when I talk with the powers in charge they say there is 'no upside' in this topic of 'peak oil' worries. The upside is in the preparation and a more manageable and orderly transition which would = less deaths.

Without energy our country is open for takeover ... no jets...no tanks...no transport on the ground or in the air. Luckily we will still have nuclear powered submarines and aircraft carriers as long as the uranium holds out. But the jets on the flattop all use jet fuel. All the supplies for those subs and carriers petroleum dependent.

Other countries such as Russia that have a good supply of home based crude may not be so kind to keep on selling it to us and we need a 'local and continual' source somewhat within our borders. You see, jet fuel as well as gasoline deteriorates and cannot be stored indefinitely. So we must always be producing some of it to replace the stale stuff to supply the military.

"If the public does think briefly about future oil supplies, the question usually asked is, "How long will oil last?" This is the wrong question. Oil will be extracted in some insignificant quantity perhaps 200 years from now. The critical question is: When does the peak of world oil production occur?" ~ Richard C. Duncan

link: (removed due to censorship guidelines)

But besides peak oil, peak natural gas, peak uranium, peak coal we are starting to see peak issues with food.

With the recent food shortages in the news I have to wonder as Richard Heinberg brought up "Who will be growing our food 20 years from now?"

"The average American farmer is 55 to 60 years old. The proportion of full time farmers younger than 35 years of age has dropped from 15.9% in 1982 to 5.8% in 2002. Who will be growing our food 20 years from now?" from "Peak Everything" by Richard Heinberg

"Amish farmers can't compete in conventual agriculture farming. 40 years ago 90% to 95% of the Amish were farmers. Today less than 10% are farmers." From: "How the Amish Survive" DVD

We have been worshiping the wrong God all these years. We should have been making farmers our God.

We should have been worshiping the farmer and doing everything we could to make their life a better one and kiss their asses for producing healthy and nutritious food for us.

Our food supply has degenerated unbelievably in recent years and getting worse every day that goes by. A societies well-being is based on healthy food that the farmer produces.

Just as cows go mad with poisonous, unnatural diet - so will society.

People will be headed off the deep end more and more as global warming starts to cook us, the oil and natural gas dries up and our excessive desires cannot be fulfilled any longer.

If the poison food does not drive us crazy, the salty and unnatural combinations and nutritionally bankrupt content will do the job as we get cooked from the inside with EMF and radio wave radiation for every direction.

The food being fed to us is factory made, genetically engineered, poison. But besides the greed for money, the drive for GMO food is that of necessity. We are overpopulated and our land is devoid of nutrition so they monkey with the food to try and keep pace with the insatiable demands of feeding the US.

In addition, there are not enough farmers in the US to feed us any other way than the way they do now. If the US went to organic farming with the same amount of farmers we have now - we would starve to death.

"In 1935, the number of farms in the United States peaked at 6.8 million as the population edged over 127 million citizens. There are over 285,000,000 people living in the United States. Of that population, less than 1% claim farming as an occupation."

link: (removed due to censorship guidelines)

If we look at the trends of farming in the US it goes in just one direction ... DOWN.

Much of the citrus groves in Fla and CA are disappearing due to skyrocketing real estate values. You know farming is tough work and many times nature deals you a blow with disease, pests and inclement weather that destroys crops.

So why would a farmer want to put up with all that when they could get $5,000,0000 or $10,000,000 for prime real estate?

link: (removed due to censorship guidelines)

link: (removed due to censorship guidelines)

It is really a tough life 'just finding' some decent food to eat nowadays unless you happen to live in a town with a good natural grocer and have lots of money. But money is still no guarantee. I bought some 'organic peaches' last summer at Krogers for $3 a pound...they rotted before the ripened ....went straight in the trash.

When I was a kid growing up in L.A. we could pick apricots from a tree in the alley and they had fabulous flavor even when somewhat green. What do you get now with apricots...tasteless rubber for $3 a pound.

The peaches have lost their fuzz since they are picked green, buffed and waxed with poisons and anti fungals. You can't wash it off either.

Soak a buffed peach in water and you will get a rainbow oil slick on the surface of the water composed of poison...no matter how many times you rinse it. Each summer I make it my mission to try and find a few edible peaches with the fuzz still on them...I usually fail unless I drive great distances and luck into a 'real' farmers market. (I've noticed some roadside farmers stands just buy their produce in normal channels to resell)

We will run out of natural gas, just as we deplete our crude supplies in the near future. Our population boom was fueled by synthetic fertilizers made from natural; gas. Once the natural gas dries up so does the fertilizer and a shortage of fertilizer equals a shortage of food...aka STARVATION!

link: (removed due to censorship guidelines)

I think we have a real food crisis brewing for the world. Not enough young farmers replacing the old, we will run low of fertilizer as the NG dries up and that food which is grown is devoid of nutrition and not healthy.

"When the sun rises I go to work,
When the sun goes down, I take my rest,
I dig the well from which I drink,
I farm the soil that yields my food,
I share creation, Kings can do no more."

Ancient Chinese, 2500 BC

In 1964 the American electorate overwhelmingly voted in favor of PEACE (Lyndon Johnson) and AGAINST WAR (Barry Goldwater). Once Johnson got elected, he began a massive escalation of the war in Vietnam! His "Great Society" program was an abysmal and miserable failure! Find out the dwetails of who, what, where, when and why:

Great Society Reader, The: The Failure of American Liberalism (Paperback)
by Marvin and David Mermelstein, eds. Gettleman (Author)

http://www.amazon.com/Great-Society-Reader-American-Liberalism/dp/B000FFSRUK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1219176156&sr=1-1

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/index-flash.html

I would like to see all of us post the above link of the program to any and all newspaper sites, well-read blogs, etc and encourage those who do to please read all of these thoughtful and compassionate postings listed here. Let's get this out in the public arena

The total lack of American leadership accountability is extremely blatant and obvious. The weakened condition of democracy within the USA has been an ongoing process. One might easily argue that this process is a direct outcome of elite rule. After all, power hates accountability or restraint, and privilege disdains oversight. Democratic principles are inconvenient to those who wield enormous power and privilege. Witness the concerted propaganda campaign that was unleashed upon the American citizenry to justify military attack and invasion of Iraq. Witness the massive discrepancy between what the Bush Administration said about the likely duration of that “war” and the bleak reality of what the world sees now in the Middle East. Of course, both American political parties fully supported Bush’s march into the current military insanity. No entity seems willing or capable of holding the Administration accountable for its actions.

In the meantime, the powerful in the USA have contributed mightily to massively destabilizing the Middle East and, therefore, the entire world. Such destabilization, of course, plays directly into their hands and serves their interests. After all, if enough people can be significantly terrorized and frightened, they will grant any and all power to the “authorities” that hold out a promise to “protect” them. How convenient that these “authorities” have not been able to find, capture or kill Osama Bin Laden or his lieutenant, Ayman al Zawahiri. How convenient that, only when Bush suffered a huge decline in his “approval” ratings, suddenly the “authorities” were able to find and kill Abu Musab al Zarqawi. The list of outrageous crimes committed by the powerful in America, in the name of a powerless citizenry, has earned scorn, ridicule and hatred worldwide.

On August 11, 2006, headlines regarding the terrorist plot to explode several airplanes uncovered by the British government have been accompanied by additional headlines that read:

Democrats assail GOP fundraising effort
Jordan Falls News

Terror Plot Could Have Impact on US Elections
Voice of America

Politically, a chance to score points
Boston Globe
By LIZ SIDOTI, Associated Press Writer. WASHINGTON - Democrats assailed the Republicans Friday for e-mailing a fundraising appeal mentioning the war on terror hours after British authorities disclosed they had disrupted a plot to blow up aircraft headed to the United States. "In the middle of a war on terror, we need to remain focused on furthering Republican ideas more than ever before," former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani said in a letter that asked for donations to the Republican National Committee. "Once the RNC learned of this error we ceased distribution of the e-mail," said Tracey Schmitt, a party spokeswoman.
The point here is not to deny that groups exist in the world at large, groups that are willing to resort to dastardly, heinous acts to inflict harm on innocent citizens to achieve their goals. Terrorism exists, to be sure. One must bear in mind, however, that one group’s terrorists are another group’s freedom fighters. The ability to define the terms dictates how these different groups are perceived. When the first world nations perpetrate a bloodbath against less powerful states, the perpetrators invariably couch such actions in terms of promoting “freedom” and “liberation”. When the much less powerful states respond with suicide bombings or other equally pathetic attempts at redressing the massive grievances they have, these people are labeled “terrorists”. When the USA bombs and slaughters millions with impunity, this is “liberation”, whether in Vietnam or Iraq. When 2 planes kill 3000 American citizens, this is “terrorism”.

This is only one small example of how the elite create the world they want and then use what they have created to further their interests, always at the expense of the masses. The one thing that they cannot do is control events globally. Once having unleashed the insanity of global military conflict, the powers in Washington now are at a loss to rein in what they have started in motion. Witness the total unpredictability of events in Iraq, followed by more of the same between Israel and Lebanon. The world may now be witnessing the opening battles of what might very well become WWIII. Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Andrew Card, Karl Rove, Karen Hughes, George W Bush, Colin Powell, Condoleezza Rice and all the other people who have played a significant role in these developments will be held to account only by a distant history written by minds that have perspective. Meantime, we all have to live with the results these people have given us. Whether the human species can survive what has been set in motion remains to be seen.

Professor Bacevich states that historians 100 years from now will "puzzle" over why we didn't act sooner to end our dependence on foreign oil. I don't think it's a puzzle at all. Washington, D.C. is owned, lock, stock and barrel by corporate interests and the largest of these is the oil industry that gets rich not only from oil production, but from the wars we've been fighting to get oil from other nations, like Iraq. It's obvious, everyone whose head is not in the sand knows it, so say it for crying out loud.

Great program and great discussion - thank you all!

Thoughts on what to do as an individual:
1 - pay off all debt asap.
2- Save money.

Engage socially on:
3 - support alternative energy in every possible -ecologically sound- way (i.e.: pickensplan.com - not pure but a step in the right direction); lets try to produce our own (personal) solar/wind/geothermal/?... energy as soon as affordable;
4 - support gov subsidies for individual installs of solar/wind collectors;
5 - mobilize/support free education for all citizens beyond high school and lifelong - apparently we are quite ok with spending $50K per head a year on someone in prison, or someone who "volunteers" to be a professional killer- but not ourselves or our neighbors' kids?!!
6 - support gov (our $) investment in new energy-related technologies
7 - "nationalize" health care (see Frontline documentary on this subject): just like Switzerland/Taiwan/UK/Japan, etc. Take the profit out of health care, AND water.
7a. Water must belong to the "commonwealth" of citizens. We must reacquaint ourselves with the concept of "commonwealth"!!
8 - Support Ralph Nader's crusade to remove the rights of citizenship from corporations as though they were human beings. Corporations are paper entities backed by real humans who should be held responsible and accountable as the individuals they in fact are. Corps should not have "eternal life" without consequences of their acts. The blind pursuit of profit as a "raison d'etre" should be legally removed from corporate charters. The benefit to humans should be the only justification for profits.
9- Vociferously and actively refuse another war! This country must stop the never ending string of global plundering and pillaging actions - particularly around natural resources.
10 - Rename all Pentagon related depts what they actually are: "The WAR DEPT". Drop the euphemisms from "defense" and "security" to aggression and police action which is what most of their actions actually are. Thats what we are paying for currently!
11 - Eliminate the "Electoral College" (aka "cronies club") and "primary" elections cycle. One citizen one vote - directly, is what I consider a democracy.

Essentially, in my view our society would best benefit from putting "people first", in its full sense which includes our environment.

The cause of the imperial presidency? National broadcast television and 24/7 cable news networks. NBC and CNN will never pay attention to a Congressman because their audience is so small. The president, on the other hand, has a bully pulpit whenever he wants one.

Dear "Concerned Citizen",
Your effort to depict the political and societal beliefs of Bill Moyers is interesting, for those who have followed his career nothing new. It does not respond to the core issues raised by Bacevich but rather demonstrates a lack of tolerance for differing opinions. It is unfortunate that our political process has been highjacked by the right where our societal needs require governing with a good balance left and right of center. How will we effect the return of the pendulum while making sure it does not follow its natural course to the other extreme is perhaps what you were driving towards?

Finally, we hear some truth about the "American Dream" and from an extremely credible and articulate source. I agree this man would make a excellent president, although he would not last long swimming against the current. Ron Paul tried to speak some similar truth during the Republican debates and was not only derided by the other candidates, but by the hand-picked audience members and the so-called journalists moderating the events. The loss of true journalism and the rise of the corporate controlled "news" programs has been and will be the downfall of this "democracy".

I was impressed that someone could articulate so clearly, in so honest a manner, seemingly original ideas that seemed like common sense. This was like coming clean, saying dah, how stupid are we. We as a society are sooooo stupid, and we get the leaders we deserve(representive democracy) who will lead us to utter doom. One would give up, until listening to wise men such as this who give us hope and bring us to our senses. I only wish there were more than the one or two who pop up on late night public T.V.

As a regular reader of Andrew Bacevich's commentary in the American Conservative magazine, I was absolutely delighted to listen to this interview on NOW. Professor Bacevich's analysis is excellent and points out the vast divide which separates thoughtful cautious conservatism of years past from the bellicose imperialism of today's neocons and "amen chorus" politicos more concerned with gaining and keeping power than speaking truth and acting in the best interest of the nation. While some may find it interesting -- even odd that a conservative should be so determined an opponent of the neocons, I would point out that "paleocons" and "libertarian conservatives" were warning against war in Iraq well before the occupation went bad and IEDs became common-place. Col Bacevich: thank you for your patriotism, sir.

Until a Society, that claims to be open and free, purges itself of "Secret Societies" that are established and permitted to conceal their involvements under a cloak of secrecy.., that said open and free society will remain contradictory, hypocritical
and an illusion....

This that we are about is of planned design, and intended to lead us to the "chip" and the ultiment enslavement.., and it's right on course....

Anything less than confronting this cancer of "Secrecy" will fail in all other attempted cures....

"Yes" to all of that.

To Ali: (August 15, 2008 2:05 PM): Your post was truly nauseating. First, whatever you may think of Bill Moyers, Jim Lehrer, Gwen Ifill et al., they are far from "unprofessional". Second, most people are thoroughly nauseated by the Republican party, and somewhat nauseated by the Democratic party -- just like Ret. Col. Andrew Bacevich. I would give your comment an F for content and a D for style.

Ref: The Imperial Presidency
Mr Bacevich has made some valid and interesting points. He approaches things differently and has made some great suggestions. I can agree with much of what he says. However he misses too many causes, makes too many assumptions and jumps to wrong conclusions on cause. I do not agree that 90% of American's approve of the current approach albeit I think 90% of the senate and house might! I do not agree that the president, cabinet, senators and representatives are motivated purely by a belief in what Americans want; that eliminates the influence and power of special groups. Further- more I think he misses the points of many experts, including those of Paul Grignon in the affect of the government's monetary policies.
Thanks for all your work on this on other

In spite of his claim for truth and openness Mr. Bacevich does not factor in the work of John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt.Therefore
the presentation is out of contest, invalid.

time served and (although impossible) some serious punishment for the lives lost because of their greed...I'm just disgusted by them and even more so by the apathy of the American public (and if possible) even more disgusted by those who have the means to start an investigation and bring these criminals to justice...yet won't...

Posted by: Sir Vertual

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

Oh no..that is not the American way.

There are never consequences.

Traditionally the incoming pres pardons the outgoing pres.

"Good Grief!...Gee Beav, I gotta' go"...
and so it looks like that's how we'll let these morally & ethically corrupt theives leave office...not to ention the 9 TRILLION DOLLAR DEFICIT THEY ARE LEAVING US WITH!...Although it never should have been allowed to happen (God knows I've 'preached to anyone that would listen, since the before he stole the office), I personally don't think it's too late to at least bring these creeps to justice...There were laws broken...serious crimes have been committed, oaths have been broken...Someone with some authority needs to cuff em' and book em' like the low-life criminals they are (regardless of the color of their collars)...Again, I place some of the blame on the ignorance of those American voters who 'helped' them get anywhere close to The White House, but the actions that took place after they took control were of their own free will and the consequences need to be faced...Impeachment isn't enough...There needs to be monetary compensation, time served and (although impossible) some serious punishment for the lives lost because of their greed...I'm just disgusted by them and even more so by the apathy of the American public (and if possible) even more disgusted by those who have the means to start an investigation and bring these criminals to justice...yet won't...

I guess we as americans are not suffering enough yet as to force us to change. I however intend to voice my freedom by voting independently for Ralph Nader this election. Because I have seen my future steadily decline as a blue collar worker since I began working in 1979. Then I saw the white collar workers begin to lose ground. Who will be next ? Yet we keep hearing the same mantras from main stream media. Maybe those folks at Fox news and the like will begin to feel our pain shortly and revolt against their employers and report the truth. I can only hope.

Posted by: Kenneth King

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

Change from pain?

That is tough to do in all cases Ken. Some addicts would rather die than change and pain means nothing to them.

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk187/fookisan/drugofchoice.jpg

But if we do accept and seek change, it is a little more involved than just switching to florescent bulbs or using reusable shopping bags.

They say the road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom. But we have dug a hole for us that is not easy to get out of. And I'm afraid many of us will not reach the palace of wisdom, but are headed down the detour of death.

But we can prepare for a post carbon world and reduce the deaths - so that's the upside. Unfortunately our politicians will not acknowledge peak oil in public, so how can we get started when we can't even admit we have a problem?

Our society, no our WORLD is built on crude Ken...is all we know.

http://peakoil.com/fortopic42300-15.html

Crude is in our veins. (Crude really is in our veins. Studies showed 90% of the persons tested had plasticizers in their urine.)

Some of us will change from choice Ken, others may not change unless the pain sets in, as you say. And some of us cannot afford to change no matter what.

In my own case, even when the Chevy Volt comes out it will not help me. Number one, cannot afford $30,000 to $40,000 for it. I can't afford over $21,000 for a new car. And with all the inflation and cost of living hikes maybe that number will go down to $18,000 in a couple of years.

I don't need a sports car, I live in the snow country and need an AWD or 4x4 that can carry some cargo like my Subi Forester.

Sure I will accept the worthless battery powered A/C, heater and defogger that will be in all electric vehicles. I will accept the battery will barely get me to the store in sub freezing weather to buy some rice and beans. But without other basics I mentioned a car like the Volt is pretty useless to me.

I will have to give up my diving trips to Ginnie Springs in Fla. Can't drive 1100 miles at 30 miles per change. Chevy says it will go 40 miles per charge? So what...do we drive our gas cars until they run out? We always have to leave some reserve in.

But besides my concerns, what about the multitude of motels, hotels and travel dependent business along the pilgrimage route to Fla? How will these fair when we are all electric and batteries?

Yes, many changes in store for us Ken.
The fact is; just like it takes a certain amount of money to 'just live' so it goes with crude Ken.

Even if we cut out the extra crude usage and have zero fun and waste, we still need to consume a certain amount of crude to just live. (in our modern society).

And even if we burn no crude, petrochemicals will burn it for us if we are a consumer and if we eat food.

Carving up a barrel of crude oil, we can see that each barrel supplies many of our necessities of life.

Out of each barrel of crude we make the following products:

42% of each barrel of crude is used for Gasoline

21% Fuel oil - Diesel

8% Jet Fuel and Kerosene

8% Petrochemicals

Such as....

Solvents Bearing Grease Vaseline Ink Floor Wax Ball-point Pens Football Cleats Upholstery Sweaters Boats Insecticides Bicycle Tires Sports Car Bodies Nail Polish Fishing lures Dresses Tires Golf Bags Perfumes Cassettes Dishwasher Tool Boxes Shoe Polish Motorcycle Helmet Caulking Petroleum Jelly Transparent Tape CD Player Faucet Washers Antiseptics Clothesline Curtains Food Preservatives Basketballs Soap Vitamin Capsules Antihistamines Purses Shoes Dashboards Cortisone Deodorant Footballs Putty Dyes Panty Hose Refrigerant Percolators Life Jackets Rubbing Alcohol Linings Skis TV Cabinets Shag Rugs Electrician's Tape Tool Racks Car Battery Cases Epoxy Paint Mops Slacks Insect Repellent Oil Filters Umbrellas Yarn Fertilizers Hair Coloring Roofing Toilet Seats Fishing Rods Lipstick Denture Adhesive Linoleum Ice Cube Trays Synthetic Rubber Speakers Plastic Wood Electric Blankets Glycerin Tennis Rackets Rubber Cement Fishing Boots Dice Nylon Rope Candles Trash Bags House Paint Water Pipes Hand Lotion Roller Skates Surf Boards Shampoo Wheels Paint Rollers Shower Curtains Guitar Strings Luggage Aspirin Safety Glasses Antifreeze Football Helmets Awnings Eyeglasses Clothes Toothbrushes Ice Chests Footballs Combs CD's Paint Brushes Detergents Vaporizers Balloons Sun Glasses Tents Heart Valves Crayons Parachutes Telephones Enamel Pillows Dishes Cameras Anesthetics Artificial Turf Artificial limbs Bandages Dentures Model Cars Folding Doors Hair Curlers Cold cream Movie film Soft Contact lenses Drinking Cups Fan Belts Car Enamel Shaving Cream Ammonia Refrigerators Golf Balls Toothpaste

6% Propane

4% Heating Oil

3% Asphalt and Road oil

2% Petroleum coke

1% Lubricants
Now if our society become less complex, then it will take less crude to live.

But we will not be living at the same complexity as we do now.

And our retirement funds will reflect this as we power down to our less complex future.

I like green activities besides sucking down crude in my RV or jet ski. But even if I go backpacking the mylar bags the freeze dried food comes in are made from crude. The freeze dry process uses crude. My boots and backpack are made from crude. I use crude based fuel to heat my food and all my wicking garments as well as my outer garments are made from crude. And of course without crude I can't get to the trailhead or catch a shuttle back to my car to pick it up.

If I go kayaking my hard-shell yak is made of crude, my drysuit is made from crude. My wet suit and rashguard is made from crude. My paddles are made from crude. My air pump and my IK is made from crude. My PFD is made from crude. It takes crude to get to the put in and crude to get picked up at the take out.

If I go longboarding I have to drive to a hill and use crude and my board and wheels are all crude based.

Sure, renewables are our future Ken, we will change albeit slowly.

But...

Renewables are not a seamless and fungible replacement for fossil fuels.

Renewables do not replace the petrochemical uses of crude oil.

Renewables do not replace the specialized uses of natural gas in industry or food production.

Renewables will be our future by design and not by desire.

But they are the default choice for our further power needs as ALL fossil fuels and nuclear energy source will be depleted in the near future.

The more realistic we are with our evaluation of the conversion to renewable energy, the less deaths will occur from fantasizing about the improbable future that the intellectuals, cornucopians and political spin doctors have dreamed up.

After reading "concerned citizen's post, it reinforced my views of Mr. Moyers - a good and thoughtful man, very concerned about the state of his country.

For those of you who are not familiar with our fellow citizen, Bill Moyers, I am asking your indulgence as I offer the following:
Commentary

[edit] Regarding the U.S. media

[edit] On the media and class warfare
In a 2003 interview with BuzzFlash.com,[16] Moyers said, "The corporate right and the political right declared class warfare on working people a quarter of a century ago and they've won." He noted that "The rich are getting richer, which arguably wouldn't matter if the rising tide lifted all boats." Instead, however, "The inequality gap is the widest it's been since 1929; the middle class is besieged and the working poor are barely keeping their heads above water." He added that as "the corporate and governing elites are helping themselves to the spoils of victory," access to political power has become "who gets what and who pays for it."

Meanwhile, the public has failed to react because it is, in his words, "distracted by the media circus and news has been neutered or politicized for partisan purposes." In support of this he referred to "the paradox of Rush Limbaugh, ensconced in a Palm Beach mansion massaging the resentments across the country of white-knuckled wage earners, who are barely making ends meet in no small part because of the corporate and ideological forces for whom Rush has been a hero... As Eric Alterman reports in his recent book — a book that I'm proud to have helped make happen — part of the red meat strategy is to attack mainstream media relentlessly, knowing that if the press is effectively intimidated, either by the accusation of liberal bias or by a reporter's own mistaken belief in the charge's validity, the institutions that conservatives revere — corporate America, the military, organized religion, and their own ideological bastions of influence — will be able to escape scrutiny and increase their influence over American public life with relatively no challenge."[16]

[edit] On media bias
When he retired in December 2004, the AP News Service quoted Moyers, "I'm going out telling the story that I think is the biggest story of our time: how the right-wing media has become a partisan propaganda arm of the Republican National Committee. We have an ideological press that's interested in the election of Republicans, and a mainstream press that's interested in the bottom line. Moyers said: Therefore, we don't have a vigilant, independent press whose interest is the American people."[17]

[edit] On Karl Rove and U.S. politics
During his speech at the "Take Back America" Conference, Moyers defined what he considered to be Karl Rove's influence on George W. Bush's administration. Moyers asserted that, from his reading of Rove, the mid to late 1800s were to Rove a "cherished period of American history." He further states, "From his own public comments and my reading of the record, it is apparent that Karl Rove has modeled the Bush presidency on that of William McKinley...and modeled himself on Mark Hanna, the man who virtually manufactured McKinley."[18]

He stipulated that Hanna's primary "passion" was attending to corporate and imperial power.

Furthermore, Moyers indicates that Hanna gathered support for McKinley's presidential campaign from "the corporate interests of the day" and was responsible for Ohio and Washington coming under the rule of "bankers, railroads and public utility corporations." He submitted that political opponents of this transfer of power were "smeared as disturbers of the peace, socialists, anarchists, or worse."[18]

Lastly, he refers to what historian Clinton Rossiter called the period of "the great train robbery of American intellectual history," when "conservatives--or better, pro-corporate apologists" began using terms such as "progress", "opportunity", and "individualism" in order to make "the plunder of America sound like divine right." He added that Charles Darwin's theory of evolution was also used by conservative politicians, judges, and publicists to justify the idea of a "natural order of things" as well as "the notion that progress resulted from the elimination of the weak and the 'survival of the fittest.'"[18]

He concludes, "This 'degenerate and unlovely age', as one historian calls it, exists in the mind of Karl Rove, the reputed brain of George W. Bush, as the seminal age of inspiration for the politics and governance of America today."[18]

During coverage of the 2004 presidential election, Moyers stated, "I think that if Kerry were to win this in a tight race, I think that there would be an effort to mount a coup, quite frankly. I mean that the right wing is not going to accept it."[19][20]

[edit] Presidential draft initiative
In late 2005 an attempt was begun to draft Moyers for a 2008 run at the Democratic Presidential nomination. The founder of this initiative, Scott Beckman, circulated an article on the Internet entitled You Are Not Alone,[21] laying out his reasoning and establishing a website. Although the effort was popular on the Internet, it was not supported by Moyers, who, according to his attorneys, would "not under any circumstances" run for President.[22] The petition drove to gain 100,000 signatures by the end of the year, but it garnered less than one percent the few months it was in operation. The website was taken down at Moyers's request, but on July 24, 2006, political commentator Molly Ivins published an article entitled Run Bill Moyers for President, Seriously[23] on the progressive website Truthdig. A follow-up was published two days later by John Nichols on his blog on The Nation magazine's website.[24] However, this effort too failed to garner the extensive grassroots support envisioned. Then in October 2006 an article[25] was published on Common Dreams NewsCenter by Ralph Nader in which he supported the Moyers candidacy. "With his deep sense of history relating to the great economic struggles in American history between workers and large companies and industries," Nader added, "Moyers today is a leading spokesman on the need to deconcentrate the manifold concentrations of political and economic power by global corporations. He is especially keen on doing something about media concentration about which he knows from recurrent personal experience as a television commentator, investigator, anchor and newspaper editor." Nader's effort was seconded by Nichols.[26] There are also two websites promoting the effort: Draft Bill Moyers For President Blog[27] and Draft Bill Moyers For President Activist Center.[28]

[edit] Allegations of bias
In 2005 former CPB chairman Kenneth Tomlinson commissioned a study of the show NOW with Bill Moyers. Tomlinson said that the study supported what he characterized as "the image of the left-wing bias of NOW".[29] Moyers replied to this by saying that his journalism showed "the actual experience of regular people is the missing link in a nation wired for everything but the truth." Moyers characterized Tomlinson as "an ally of Karl Rove and the right-wing monopoly's point man to keep tabs on public broadcasting." Tomlinson, he said, "found kindred spirits at the right-wing editorial board of the Wall Street Journal where the 'animal spirits of business' are routinely celebrated."[29] Moyers also responded to these accusations in a speech given to the National Conference for Media Reform, pointing out that he had repeatedly invited Tomlinson to debate him on the subject, and had repeatedly been ignored.[30] Tomlinson subsequently resigned on 4 November 2005 after a CPB inquiry found improprieties in the commissioning of the study. Investigators at the Corporation for Public Broadcasting said on 15 November 2005 "that they had uncovered evidence that (Tomlinson) had repeatedly broken federal law and the organization's own regulations in a campaign to combat what he saw as liberal bias."[1]

Referring to a 2007-07-13 edition of Bill Moyers Journal, discussing the possible impeachment of President George W. Bush, and featuring guests from opposing ends of the political spectrum, both in favor of impeachment,[31] PBS Ombudsman Michael Getler praised Moyers for his initiative in highlighting different topics, but felt he could have used a more balanced approach.[32] Moyers disagreed, saying:

"The journalist's job is not to achieve some mythical state of equilibrium between two opposing opinions out of some misshapen respect — sometimes, alas, reverence — for the prevailing consensus among the powers-that-be. The journalist's job is to seek out and offer the public the best thinking on an issue, event, or story."

Getler responded by saying that

"On the broad issue of balance, I don't disagree with Moyers .... It can create a false sense of equivalence among readers or viewers in cases where that is not justified.... [but that] while conventional, equal-time balance is frequently a false measure, the absence of any balance can undermine any program."[33]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Moyers

If you’re not outrage, then you’re not paying attention… I have to say that part of the blame lies with us, the American citizen as we have bought into the consumer/capitalistic society hook, line, and sinker. The dangerous outcome of this is we as Americans have developed a “Divine Sense of Self Entitlement” and that we are destined to be the chosen ones and a great nation or society without effort or sacrifice. We talk a good talk but when it comes to rolling up our sleeves and doing the necessary work, we rather pass it off to someone else and go about our business of consuming. Hardships, we long forgotten what this is like, Sacrifice, not me, it’s my right to not be burdened with such things. It is my divine right to have everything, be interrupted by nothing, and go about my material life without needless regards to the affects on my community or our society as a whole. I believe that at times we get what we deserve and to me the last administration was a reflection of where we are as a society. In a nutshell as they say in our Presidents home state; All hat and no cattle. In other words, we like to appear engaged, enlightened and great but do the actual work required? I think not… my fear for Obama is that he will be elected but ultimately fail because of one key component. He is relying on the American public to come out of the haze of consumerism and participate.
Seek the truth and it shall set you free? Andrew Bacevich presents the truth, warts and all… and yet I wonder how many are willing to forgo consumerism and entertainment to spend the time to deal with the harsh realities facing our nation. Guess we’ll find out soon… but in the meantime, the Olympics are on and we do have not much time for such issues.

To get a clearer idea of the why's and wherefor's of our nation's history, both foreign and domestic, it is imperative to understand political economy.....especially now! Without that understanding, we citizens are at the mercy of the very forces who have put us in this pickle in the first place!

William A. Williams
Gar Alperovitz
Herbert Marcuse
Marty Sklar
Harry Magdoff
Paul Sweeney
Paul Koistinen
Broadus Mitchell
G. William Domhoff
Ferdinand Lundberg
Robert Fisk
Noam Chomsky
David Korn
Michael Isikoff
Frank Rich

These are just a FEW of the authors who speak, across the decades, to the central issues with which we are all now grappling. Happy reading, fellow citizens!

This is a nation of people who have used force to obtain and sustain the "American way of life" since the first ships landed. It will continue to operate on the principle that it's easier to shoot people than it is to share until it's out-gunned.

I watch, as usual, the Friday evening Bill Moyers 'Journal'on my dish in Morelos, Mexico.

The Bacevich interview was valiant and chilling as it unveiled with candour and honesty the reality of the present moment and the uncertainty of tomorrow's.
I have downloaded the complete transcript and will have the "The Limits of Power" hand-carried from NY.this weekend.

First rate- all round.
Please schedule a fall or pre-election repeat.
Ian Thomas - Mexico City.

I caught the interview on rebroadcast at about 3 AM Saturday morning and I can’t stop thinking about it. Bacevich’s insights articulated and advanced notions that have been rattling around in my head for a long time. At breakfast my girlfriend and I talked about it, and in tears she said “but what can I do about it. The Congress, the President and the Generals are not listening, they don’t care, Big Oil has a vested interest in the status quo, and Putin’s invasion of Georgia just realized the neoconservatives’ wet dream by resurrecting the “Evil Empire” just as the “terrorist threat” was losing traction. After breakfast I went to my local bookstore and read the last chapter which ends with “Americans appear determined to affirm Niebuhr's axiom of willful self-destruction. ...". In other words we are committing suicide. Framed in those terms the vocabulary for dealing with this crisis on a personal basis has to be recast. The only thing that comes to my mind is turn of the TV, park the car, stop buying “stuff”, and start reconnecting with community around you. When I let go of the notion that the president regardless of who wins is going to “fix” things I can relax and focus on making those changes within my reach.

As we must now know, the first step in correcting a serious national problem is to recognise that there is one. How stunningly refreshing it was to listen to someone who systematically articulated the facts that so many of us have stuggled with over the years. Furthermore, after reading the abundance of concerned constructive comments, my faith in Americans is at least partially restored enough to believe that change is indeed possible. Never say 'never'!

When huge corporations determine how all of our most precious resources, both natural resources and human resources, are to be deployed and allocated, then we end up with what we have today in the USA...a profoundly dysfunctional body politic, a meaningless charade that gives the appearance of democratic elections every 4 years, a pair of "major" political parties that are now and have been ever since the late 19th century totally and completely owned and controlled by the corporate dynasty, a corporate media that trivializes all that is important and sensationalizes all that is insignificant, an infrastructure that is rapidly deteriorating, an increasingly powerful and insensitive executive branch that continues to erode our Constitutional protections..... and this short list of problems is just the TIP of the iceberg!

The one common thread that runs through both our American foreign and domestic policy ever since John D Rockefeller and Andrew Carnegie pioneered the development of Standard Oil and U.S. Steel, respectively, back in the late 19th Century is this: the huge aggregates of capital accumulation in the hands of ever fewer hands(proportional to the overall population)has continued unabated from that day to this. Such concentrated massive economic, financial, political and military power is antithetical to all of the core values expressed by the Founding Fathers in our Constitution. All of the most serious threats to our individual liberties are posed by the massive corporate and banking conglomerates that have put an iron stranglehold on the manner in which we conduct our affairs as a nation and as a society!

I guess we as americans are not suffering enough yet as to force us to change. I however intend to voice my freedom by voting independently for Ralph Nader this election. Because I have seen my future steadily decline as a blue collar worker since I began working in 1979. Then I saw the white collar workers begin to lose ground. Who will be next ? Yet we keep hearing the same mantras from main stream media. Maybe those folks at Fox news and the like will begin to feel our pain shortly and revolt against their employers and report the truth. I can only hope.

ALL meaningful change is impossible until and unless corporate rapacity and elite ownership and control of our economy is substantively altered, addressed, redressed, changed, modified, transformed, transmutated, evolved, etc etc etc. ALL else is a bunch of HAPPY PIE IN THE SKY!

The basic problem is not Americans' very human predeliction to consumerism based in democracy and capitalism (witness the rampant growth of consumerism in China based on authoritarian 'Communism'). The basic problem is economies based on gangster elites of giant transnational corporations that brainwash their consumers into mindless acceptance of endless exploitation of precious resources, all for short-term profit. The megacorps will always be the source of human destruction until they are deprived of their superhuman privileges.

Rotsa Ruck,
Lou

People just quite simply have to learn the difference between 'need' and 'greed'.

Last I heard 'gluttony' was one of the seven deadly sins.

As an expat living abroad to realize that we have thinkers such as Bacevich with a clear vision of so many of our problems is refreshing. We do not need another "shoot from the hip" cowboy, perhaps Senator Obama if elected may provide a first step or more in this direction but the greatest hurdle is the change in national consciousness. We need to look outwards, shake off the arrogance that makes many believe we are more that primus inter pares in this world, then consider other societal models that fare better than ours for the many versus the few. Already the conservative forces are seeking to justify our horrendous foreign policy, I am shocked by the self adulation provided by Luttwak's recent essay "A Truman for our times" that has appeared in this month's Prospect magazine, when we find ourselves incapable of countering the aggressive posture of Russia today, certainly emboldened by our quasi unilateral adventurism in Iraq and elsewhere.

During the show, Col Bacevich asked questions -- who is paying the price? who is dying? etc. One question he didn't ask is WHO PROFITS?

It is time we revive the second definition of conscription -- "a compulsory contribution of money to a government during a time of war." Use this term instead of "war profiteering tax" or "windfall profits tax" and require those who benefit most to pay up.

One of the key messages seemed to me to be about using/limiting ourselves to what we really need and can honestly afford--(while most of us would rather be encouraged to seek whatever we really want). This idea of rational limits, excess, decline, etc can seem negative and gloomy and can easily be distorted by those who carry it too far in guilty self-recrimination....and the idea of limits and honest values can also be mocked by those who want to sell eternal sunshine in a mythical morning in America. Mr. Bacevich was especially effective in the calm and assured and articulate way that he suggested we have been foolish, and that for our own good we need to find a better way. Surprisingly, his message seemed positive, or at least re-assuring, for those who have sensed that something is wrong.
Posted by: Thomas Wick

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

Selling eternal sunshine in a mythical morning in America...are you talking about CNBC selling us the Goldilocks economy?

Yes, mocking others is part of America freedom of speech ethos.

Remember Dan Quale and all the mocking when he talked about our bankrupt family values? Yes, much better to have less family values and keep going the route we have been headed in...isn't it.

We have to realize that greed is never satisfied by attainment - it is only satisfied by contentment

But, most of us in America are taught that we have no limits - we can do anything. Contentment is for losers and slackers...that is what we have been taught.

But, some of us forget we are spiritual beings residing in physical bodies living in physical world and as must work to balance both spiritual and physical aspects of our live.

As such, we are all governed by the following 3 branches of laws:

1 - Natural or physical laws

2 - Man made laws

3 - Divine or spiritual laws

Now, if your an atheist, you may not think much of spirituality or divine law, but you still have to answer to natural and man made laws. And some people say they can defy man made laws as well as divine laws. But no matter how defiant the person or addict is - no one escapes natural laws.

So they stretch themeless to see how far they can go. The Buddhist have a saying "when one eye is kept on the destination it only leaves one eye left for the journey." So people they lose sight of inner peace and get lost in the goal.

A few years ago I read an article in the Wall Street Journal about a con man named Charles Ponzi. He was credited with inventing the first pyramid scheme.

The article stated when Ponzi was interviewed he was asked how he was able to swindle so many people so easily, his responded, "When a man's mind is concentrated he is blind."

This case of having your mind concentrated to the point of blindness is not anything new. The ancient philosophers new this well. They called it "putting passion before reason."

Both these areas of passion and reason where the foundation of much philosophical discussion of ethics and virtue with the ancient Greeks.

They knew when passion rules the mind, that the only job left for reason is that of the subservient task to find cleaver ways to satisfy the passions.
When our minds are occupied with too much wreckage of the past, too many problems and complexities and out of control passions then there is little room left in it for reasoning.

We should not confuse Voluntary Simplicity with the misnomer of 'Voluntary Poverty' VS is not about living low, it is about making choices and balanced living. We can take a vow of poverty and not have a pot to piss in - yet we can still live a sickly, complex life full of unneeded rituals and stress.

What it does take is self-introspection and balanced living coupled with a desire to achieve greater inner peace.

...from "Wealth Addiction" by Philip Slater

All personal solutions to wealth addiction involve one form or another of what has come to be called Voluntary Simplicity. This doesn't not necessarily mean going "back to nature" and does not mean living in poverty and discomfort, although some people may elect forms of simplicity that would be highly uncomfortable for the rest of us. Above all, it does not mean forcing yourself to give up something you really enjoy, out of some pious conviction that it's the "right thing to do." Voluntary Simplicity merely means trying to rid one's life as much as possible of material clutter so as to concentrate on more important things: creativity, human survival and development, community well-being, play.

The key word in Voluntary Simplicity is "voluntary," which means that the giving up of the material clutter is not coerced either from the outside or from the inside. As Andre Vanden Broeck observers, only those who have experienced affluence are in a position to have a "choice divorced from need." The poor aren't in a position to make such a choice-they are stuck with a scarcity that is neither simple nor voluntary.

Nor is Voluntary Simplicity coerced from within, for to deprive yourself out of some ideological conviction is merely to feed the Ego Mafia. The word "simplicity" may have overtones that arouse our suspicions: a vaguely puritan ring, conjuring up images of drab smocks, self-righteousness and flagellation. But if this is in the spirit in which Voluntary Simplicity is embraced the result will most certainly be noxious.

There is an old Zen story about two monks traveling together who encounter a nude woman trying to cross a stream. One of them carries her across, much to the consternation of the other. They continue in silence for a couple of hours until the second monk can stand it no longer. "How," he asks "could you expose yourself to such temptation?" The first monk replies, "I put her down two hours ago. You're still carrying her."

Addiction is internal; if you experiment sincerely with Voluntary Simplicity and find yourself still thinking of money and possessions, your simplicity is a fraud and you might just as well go back to pursuing wealth until you've had your fill of it. To achieve its goal, Voluntary simplicity must be undertaken in the spirit, not of Puritanism or self-flagellation, but out of adventure. All adventurers throughout history have, after all, been people who abandoned comforts, possessions, love and security to seek new experiences in faraway places.

Richard Gregg, who coined the term in 1936, once complained to Gandhi that while he had no trouble giving up most things, he could not let go of his books. Gandhi told he shouldn't try: "As long as you derive inner help and comfort from anything, you should keep it." He pointed out that if you give things up out of a sense of duty or self-sacrifice they continue to preoccupy you and clutter your mind. To talk of "denying oneself" is to use the language of despotism. Simplicity is an affirmation, not a denial of oneself.

Does Mr. Bacevich, or any of you, have any idea what the impact would be on our fragile economy if we suddenly stopped spending and with nearly 40 million U.S. citizens living in poverty how many out there do you think are splurging? Americans have always been consumers.
Posted by: Burt C

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

Yes Burt, the same thing that would happen to a drug addict if they did not have their fix.

And we wont stop consuming until we can't consume any longer - either from affordability or from crude depletion.

We have built a defective model for long term population support Burt. We can only keep on keeping on as long as the crude is free flowing and affordable by the masses.

Our economy is not based on sustainable health - it is based low interest credit to encourage compulsive spending, debt and living a life of constant consumption with a 'disposable mentality' when it comes to durable goods.

It would be one thing if we all reverted back to rural living, burning trees for fuel and housing and living within our comfortable means allotted to us by nature, as our ancestors did back in the day. But seven billion people can't burn the trees!

We must accept that we have built our world on unsustainable means - a means built artificially on fossil fuel.

And when we live out of balance with natures intended means there is a price to pay to come back in balance with nature. And the price usually extracts pain from us in the adjustment process.

It has been estimated that for the earth to sustainably support its population without fossil fuels a 90% dieoff must occur. I don't know if that is the right figure, but I do know humans could not live as they do unless it was funded by artificial means via fossil fuels.

http://dieoff.org/

So if this dieoff happens, of course there will be great amounts of pain in the world. But it is natures intended balancing act. It also reminds us that nature does not bow to humans - it is humans that always bow to nature.

Animals live within their intended balance with nature and it is only man that destroys his environment and has to pay the price through pain and suffering from working against nature.

You still have some valuable time left to prepare for what awaits you down the road Burt. We are in the 'Indian Summer'of a post carbon world. Don't wait until the winter sets in to start work on your preparedness efforts.

Ultimately, I am afraid that the United States is closer than people think to the later stages of the Soviet Union, and that we may find ourselves in the same position as the Soviet Union. In other words, within twenty or thirty years, the United States of America may no longer exist as a country. And sadly enough, we may disappear for the same reasons that the Soviet Union disappeared.

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

China and Russia tried to support its people though a sustainable, self sufficient manner when they ere totally RED. Now that they are PINK, they are much more successful at support,

So the world exchanged the dread of communist domination for that of the problem of more capitalism and consumption. But as Taoists tell us...fleas come with the dog.

America now wishes China and India had stayed backwards. But as long as the crude holds out, they can't go backwards once they got a taste of the American dream.

So the US tells the world - "Don't do as we do...do as we say. Stop using up all the fossil fuel China and India...and leave all the depletion of fossil fuels to us professionals in the US of A!"

This is American hubris at its best.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ene_oil_con-energy-oil-consumption

Bacevich is the most insightful observer of our socio-political-economic reality. I'd like to amplify a bit on this fascination with the Presidency. Where does it come from? The answer is obvious: the media. Your local daily has probably devoted one hundred times the column inches to the Presidential race--if not more---than to the election of your local representaive in Congress. When compounded by the national media's obsession with the Presidential race, about which the talking heads begin their prattle at least two years ahead of the election, it's no wonder that the average voter is led to believe that there's really only one race that counts--and that the outcome is actually significant. Why do the media obsess about the Presidential race far more than any reasonable interpretation of its actual significance would suggest? It is because it is an exercise of media might. The press tells us who's a viable candidate-- and thus whom they will cover--and who isn't based upon fund raising ability. Junior senators Clinton, Edwards, and Obama were deemed the front runners by the national press corps long before the first caucus vote was cast; the far more accomplished and experienced candidates Dodd, Biden, Richardson, and Kucinich were never given coverage of those "serious" candidates. Why is money so important to the election? On what is it largely spent? MEDIA ADVERTISING. Consciously or not, the members of the press corps are not dispassionate observers, THEY ARE GATEKEEPERS WHO ENSURE THAT THE SYSTEM NOT CHANGE. Instead of party regulars deciding upon their nominee, as in the past (in the so-called "smoke-filled rooms"), the media preselects a very small number of candidates based upon their campaign war chests, i.e., how much they have available to buy media time and space. With all the coverage of our Presidential race, is it not curious that one never sees a report on how the Chief Executive is selected elsewhere. The reason? Every other major democracy has grasped the obvious: if you allow money to play a major role in the political process, those people and institutions with access to large amounts of money will subvert the system to favor thier interests at the expense of those without such access. This is inherently undemocratic and unfair and antithetical to the interest of the majority. It is also the reason why health care policy is controlled by the insurance and pharmaceutical industries, energy policy by pals of Cheney and Bush in that industry, etc.

The Journal is the best thing on TV, bar none. Congratulations on your Bacevich interview. This is the most important issue before us. I simply MUST get a copy ot THE LIMITS OF POWER. Give'em hell Bill!

Correction of my last post--" After seeing this interview I can not wait to read Dr. Andrew J. Bacevich's Book".

After seeing this interview I can not wait to read Mr. Schlesingers book. Thank you for your candid and honest discusion. I am excited to see a piece of the puzzle fitting into place. I am insired to learn more and share with every one in my life. I belief American's can still change once we set our minds in the right direction.

Ultimately, I am afraid that the United States is closer than people think to the later stages of the Soviet Union, and that we may find ourselves in the same position as the Soviet Union. In other words, within twenty or thirty years, the United States of America may no longer exist as a country. And sadly enough, we may disappear for the same reasons that the Soviet Union disappeared.

There is the possibility that this can be prevented. The future is, after all, still the future and unpredictable as all get out. But I believe that inertia for something as large as the American Empire will only be overcome by a titanic force, either through a worldwide economic collapse, or through the collapse of the global climate through global warming.

Never underestimate the power of American society to reinvent itself, though. If we have a wise president who respects the Constitution, and who listens to the world community instead of trying to impose our will on the rest of the planet, we may start the process of returning America to the better place that Prof. Bagevich described. That's why the election is important, as well as why citizens need to become far more active in the processes of government than they have been historically.

Scientists now speculate, for example that we may the very narrowest of windows as far as taking aggressive action to limit the damage from global warming. Like our political malaise, if we shine on our individual and collective responsibilities towards the environment, we may not only be sealing the fate of our country but our species.

Thank you PBS. Thank you Bill Moyers. Thank you Dr. Bacevich. The clear thinking, exhibited by Mr. Moyers and Dr. Bacevich, inspires us all to be better citizens.

Dave's Top 10 Ways to Save the Human Species from Extinction
(A Dave's Top 10 List That Matters)

1. Cut the gross world product in half. In the last 30 years, the amount manufactured by the combined world nations has tripled! Not only do we wantonly waste precious resources, we have surrounded ourselves with useless and excessive possessions that estrange us from your own natures as human beings. Such a change would require the introduction of a new, non-material lifestyle for many western people. And an economic theory that does not measure success in terms of yearly, continuing growth of the GNP and GWP.

2. Cut world population in half. From the 50s to the 80s--IN 37 YEARS--the population of the world doubled! From 2.5 to 5 billion. It is now doubling again in less than 37 years! While we cannot say definitely that this will bring mass starvation, class warfare, epidemic disease, it has already degraded our planet's collective mind. And we see an acceleration of "things happening" and a carelessness of human actions--as we no longer feel a sense of free space and time--that begins to dominate our consciousness.

3. Begin a system of "weighted democracy" in which the influence of each person's vote is derived from some kind of established criteria of knowledgeability, sensitivity, intelligence, compassion, spiritual consciousness. A real democracy requires an electorate that cannot be duped, manipulated or spun. The criteria for "weighting" of course would require a good deal of thought and care to insure that they are both legitimate and accurate.

4. Establish a Supreme World Court of our wisest and most impartial individuals to rule on international laws and to settle the disputes of nations. If two individuals cannot settle a dispute among themselves, they go to a judge. If a businessman and laborers cannot agree upon a contract, they go to an arbitrator. But if Israel and Jordan or the United States and Iraq cannot agree, they go to war. It is not logical or mentally consistent or productive of personal and species harmony that nations should be allowed to do what individuals may not. And yet, that is what we call our present understanding of law.

5. End the commercialization of everything. The principle of advertising is stupid. It degrades human beings by being a role model for dishonesty. This leads to cynicism, promotes a climate of massive consumption, and thus prevents the building of a truly good human society, one which expresses the best spiritually in us.

6. Refashion the media of the world: TV and newspapers, Internet, etc. These are now a prime cause of disease: the mental (and consequent physical) illness that now affects our society's collective mind. These shapers of our culture, partly from a misunderstanding of their social function--a perceived need to shock, control and titillate to compete, their reporting as fact and/or important what is best for those who own them, etc.--have become toxic. They must be made health-producing.

7. Insure that we can isolate, prevent the worldwide spread, of lethal infectious diseases now that we are dependent upon massive global travel and trade: One grave example that our technologies can get beyond human control. We become more susceptible to epidemics and pandemics in the very times of societal psychological and physical depression because our minds are so closely related to our bodies.

8. Add "the lost Commandment," the one that got tossed over the years in all the religious hustle/bustle. The one that would have handed us a much wholesomer history, if we'd only gotten it right:

"The Earth and all things of it are sacred. As its most intelligent creatures, you are its guardians. Thus, you shall deal with it in all ways with sensitivity and awareness."

Yes, it's really that simple--that's all we had (and have) to do! Was it the God(s) we chose or was it the person(s) writing it down who left out this irreplaceable assignment? That is, we have to consult our minds and our scientists but the final decision rests in our hearts.

Make earth spirituality a total planet phenomenon. Begin global, and universal, honorings/celebrations of the solstices, equinoxes and phases of the moon. Adopt a new earth calendar. Make this a part of all the major religions.

9. Radically alter human living environments. Large urban areas have made us insane (out of touch with reality). They are grand monuments to human power and consumption. We no longer know the power of the earth, of our planet. Create living environments in harmony with the nature that is part of us. Come back to rest on Our Mother Earth.

10. Begin all public meetings and the meetings of all aspects of all governing bodies only after each participant feels confident in his/her performance of the following silent meditation. The meditation: When the meeting opens, at the instruction by the chairperson or facilitator, everyone will sit silently and honestly ask him/herself: "How can we all agree rather than disagree? How can I personally come to an agreement with these people?"

Abe Frankel
www.circleoftheearth.org

Why weren't South Ossetia and Abkhazia offered a referendum on Georgia or Russia early on in Sakasvilli's presidency before opinions hardened? Why shouldn't Ukraine do the same thing now before the political landscape hardens and we're thrown into a full scale war? If you pull the fuse out of a time bomb it can't possibly go off.

I watched the show with a very keen interest last Friday. Your insights are wonderful, and I believe incredibly accurate and well thought out. All I could think of was a local program I saw a few months ago taped at the Panetta Institute where James Carville (one of the featured guests) saie "Ypu don't send an army to war, you send a natin to war."
Your comment on the lack of sacrafice put forth by the American people during these two wars, and how we were told to go shopping to bolster the economy seem so incredulously insane now (as they did back then...). I couldn't agree with you more. The military power should be reserved for protecting freedom, not a consumer way of life.
I will be reading your book.

Incredibly thought provoking. I'm at a loss to even respond intelligently. It will take some time to digest such a candid discussion.

It will take some time to know what to do on an individual level.

In 1917 Professor Christophe Nyrop at the University of Copenhagen wrote a book called "Is War Civilization". Professor Nyrop discussion of power, the state and process of war rings true as the events of today in America continue to develop.

Another great interview. And another book I will have to read - the list continues to grow and a significant number of the titles have come from the Journal. As to the issues at hand this week, why not a return to the draft, and learning from other nations, allow an option for civilian service if the citizen so elects - perhaps two years military or three years civilian service. I have to believe that it is still possible for us to turn our country around and escape from the effects of the military-industrial complex. Why can't we implement more education and training programs domestically, and as to foreign affairs, we could achieve significantly better results at drastically reduced cost (in lives and money) by utilizing the soft power approach that one of your previous shows highlighted. I think what is truly needed is a focused effort to make these things happen. It appears that those who feel as I do cannot get themselves organized enough to be effective. Perhaps we are getting close to a tipping point where such an organization will be formed and try to force the political system to function more effectively.

I completely agree with Prof. Bacevich's assessment. Rarely in life do you hear somebody put into words so clearly what you have been noticing in the back of your mind all along. Brilliant analysis of the information and a equally competent ability to so clearly communicate those thoughts. For me, watching this program today felt like how I imagine reading "Common Sense" must have felt to colonials in the late 18th century.

Thank you for bringing him on your program. All I can hope is that his truly critical breakdown of the problems we are now facing as a country get through to a percentage of the population comparable to that of Thomas Paine's time.

ANDREW BACEVICH

GREETINGS SIR. I SERVED IN VIETNAM WITH THE MARINES AS A COMBAT INTELLIGENCE NCO FOR TWO BATTALIONS (66 - 67)...WELCOME HOME.

MY DEEPEST SYMPATHIES FOR THE LOSS OF YOUR SON LAST YEAR.

I FULLY CONCUR WITH YOUR PERSPECTIVE NOTED IN THE RECENT INTERVIEW WITH BILL MOYERS; AND WANT TO SHARE THE PRESENTATION I MADE EARLIER THIS SPRING AT A LOCAL COLLEGE IN MARYLAND FOR THE GREAT DECISIONS FORUM SPONSORED BY THE FOREIGN POLICY ASSOCIATION (WWW.FPA.ORG).

_______

WE THE PEOPLE ~ THE BEST & BRIGHTEST

OUR CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS: THE BATTLE FOR PEACE

WE ARE IN THE MIDST OF AN UNPRECEDENTED CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS WITH VAST IMPLICATIONS FOR THE UNITED STATES, OUR DIMINISHING DEMOCRACY AND THE WORLD THAT DEMANDS, WHAT NATIVE AMERICANS CALL “SEVENTH GENERATION” THINKING.

THE 9/11 ATTACK AND SUBSEQUENT POLITICAL AND MILITARY ACTIONS CLEARLY DEMONSTRATE THE MYOPIC CONSTRAINTS OF OUR NATIONAL SECURITY THINKING AND INFRASTRUCTURES THAT RESULTED IN THE REACTIVE ATTACKS AGAINST THE TRUE BELIEVERS OF AL-QAEDA IN AFGHANISTAN; THE “NOT-SO” CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER, RESULTING IN THE OVERTHROW OF LATE THUG SADDAM AND HIS NON-EXISTENT WMD; AND THE CATISTROPHIC FIASCO OF THE WAR IN IRAQ.

AS TERRORISM AND THE DESTRUCTIVE FOLLY OF THIS ILL-CONCEIVED AND SO-CALLED PRE-EMPTIVE WAR LOOMS OVER THE REGION, SLAUGHTERS OUR BEST AND BRIGHTEST MILITARY PERSONNEL AND INNOCENT IRAQIS, AND IRREPEARABLY TRAUMATIZES THEIR FAMILIES, THE CRISIS INTENSIFIES.

IT IS THE DEBATE AND OWNERSHIP OF THE “SOUL OF U.S. FOREIGN POLICY” AND WHO PAYS! CLEARLY, THE U.S. IS PROBABLY THE SOLE SUPERPOWER WITH AN OBLIGATION TO IMPROVE THE LOT OF HUMANITY, AND IS STRUGGLING WITH THESE GREAT VERSUS AMONG OTHERS:

• PROGESSIVE WORLD LEADERSHIP ~ EMPIRE BUILDING
• WAR PROFITS ~ PEACE DIVIDENDS
• SCARCITY ~ ABUNDANCE CAPITALISM
• POVERTY ~ SUSTAINABLE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT
• DECLARATION OF WAR ~ CONGRESS VS WHITE HOUSE
• FOLLY POLICY ~ DIPLOMACY: FOREIGN POLICY BASED ON INTERNATIONAL LAWS AND TREATIES VS UNILATERAL & PREMPTIVE USE OF MILITARY FORCE
• BILL OF RIGHTS ~ UNCONSTITUTIONAL LAWS

IN JAN ’08, THE CENTER OF PUBLIC INTEGRITY PRESENTED THE RESULTS OF ITS RECENT 2.5 YEAR STUDY ENTITLED:

"FALSE PRETENSES" ~~

FOLLOWING 9/11, PRESIDENT BUSH AND SEVEN TOP OFFICIALS OF HIS ADMINISTRATION WAGED A CAREFULLY ORCHESTRATED CAMPAIGN OF MISINFORMATION ABOUT THE THREAT POSED BY SADDAM'S IRAQ. BUSH, CHENEY, RICE, RUMSFELD, WOLFOWITZ AND OTHERS, MADE OVER 900 FALSE STATEMENTS IN THE TWO YEARS ABOUT THE THREAT POSED BY SADDAM FOLLOWING OSAMA’S ATTACK. THE RECORD SHOWS THAT THE STATEMENTS WERE AN ORCHESTRATED CAMPAIGN THAT VERY EFFECTIVELY GALVANIZED PUBLIC OPINION AND, IN THE PROCESS, LED OUR NATION TO WAR.

IT IS NOW BEYOND DISPUTE THAT IRAQ DID NOT POSSESS ANY WMD OR HAVE MEANINGFUL TIES TO AL QAEDA. THIS WAS THE CONCLUSION OF NUMEROUS BIPARTISAN INVESTIGATIONS, INCLUDING THOSE BY THE SENATE SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE, THE 9/11 COMMISSION, AND THE MULTINATIONAL IRAQ SURVEY GROUP ESTABLISHED THAT SADDAM HAD TERMINATED HIS NUCLEAR PROGRAM IN 1991 AND MADE LITTLE EFFORT TO RESTART IT.

IN SHORT, THESE OFFICIALS LED US TO WAR BASED ON FALSE INFORMATION THAT THEY METHODICALLY PROPAGATED. NOT SURPRISINGLY, THOSE WITH THE MOST OPPORTUNITIES TO MAKE SPEECHES, GRANT INTERVIEWS, AND OTHERWISE FRAME THE PUBLIC DEBATE, ALSO MADE THE MOST FALSE STATEMENTS.

GROWING NUMBER OF CRITICS, INCLUDING A PARADE OF FORMER OFFICIALS AND MILITARY OFFICERS, HAVE PUBLICLY, AND IN SOME CASES VEHEMENTLY, ACCUSED BUSH AND HIS INNER CIRCLE OF IGNORING OR DISTORTING THE GROUND TRUTH OF AVAILABLE INTELLIGENCE.

THEY HAVE SO FAR LARGELY AVOIDED THE HARSH, SUSTAINED SPOTLIGHT OF ON-GOING, FORMAL SCRUTINY ABOUT THEIR PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE LITANY OF REPEATED, FALSE STATEMENTS AND DECISIONS THAT HAVE AND CONTINUE TO KILL THOUSANDS.

WHY HAVE THERE BEEN NO CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATIONS AS THE FULBRIGHT HEARINGS ‘68? WHAT HAPPENED TO THE INVESTIGATIVE HEARINGS THAT WERE CALLED FOR IN 2005 BY SEN. CHUCK HAGEL?

CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT HAS FOCUSED ALMOST ENTIRELY ON THE QUALITY OF THE PRE-WAR INTELLIGENCE, NOT THE PLANNING, JUDGMENT, PUBLIC STATEMENTS AND DECISIONS, OR PUBLIC ACCOUNTABILITY OF ITS HIGHEST OFFICIALS. CONGRESS CONTINUES TO BE PARTY TO THE FALSE CONSENSUS ABOUT IRAQ.

RISE IN U.S. MILITANCY:

ACCORDING TO GEN. SMEDELY BUTLER, USMC, WHO WON TWO MEDALS OF HONOR, "WAR IS A RACKET!"

EVEN OUR MILITARY WAS STRUGGLING WITH IT OWN GREAT VERSUS ABOUT STRATEGIES AND BUDGETS: COLD WAR AND M.A.D., VS FUTURISTIC WEAPONRY, COUNTERINSURGENCY, AND HUMANITARIAN MISSIONS...TROOPS ON THE GROUND VS MILITARY CAPITAL!

HOWEVER, THE FALSE JUSTIFICATION OF WAR ON TERRORISM, AND THE INVASION ENDED THIS DEBATE WITH BOTH CAMPS WINNING. THE FLOW OF HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF WAR FIGHTING FUNDS INTO THE COFFERS OF THE PENTAGON'S PRIVATE CONTRACTERS CONTINUES.

ON SEPT. 12, ‘01, FOREIGN POLICY MAGAZINE HAD LONG PLANNED A ROUNDTABLE DISCUSSION WITH FOUR OF OUR MOST DISTINGUISHED RETIRED MILITARY LEADERS WITH OVER 100 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE TO ADDRESS NUMEROUS ISSUES WITHIN THE DOD, INCLUDING OBSTACLES TO REFORM, TECHNOPHOBIA AND THE AMOUNTS OF WASTE IN THE DEFENSE BUDGET.

QUOTING TWO ~

GEN. BOYD (USAF): “…IF YOU COULD CHANGE THE EXCESSIVE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT REMAINS IN PLACE [FROM THE COLD WAR] FOR POLITICAL, NOT MILITARY REASONS, THEN YOU COULD CUT COSTS SIGNIFICANTLY AND UNDOUBTEDLY INCREASE CAPABILITY. ALTHOUGH IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO QUANTIFY, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE NATION SPENDS $300 BILLION ON DEFENSE AND MAYBE GETS $200 OR 225 BILLION WORTH OF CAPABILITY.”

ADM. OWENS (USN): “…I’D HESITATE TO USE THE WORD WASTE, BUT I BELIEVE THAT THE NUMBER OF $100 BILLION OF GROSS INEFFICIENCY IS ADEQUATELY STATED.”

WHAT ARE THE DRIVING FORCES BEHIND THIS ADMINISTRATION’S STRATEGY OF PREEMPTION AND REGIME CHANGE? I SUGGEST THE FOLLOWING ARGUMENTS:

1. UNSTRUCTURED DIPLOMACY IN THE MIDDLE EAST.

2. INTERESTS OF EMPIRE ARE BETTER SUITED BY FORMENTING TENSIONS, THE THREAT OF WAR OR WAR ITSELF RATHER THAN PROMOTING PEACE, PROSPERITY AND STABLE MARKETS.

IKE’S WARNINGS AGAINST THE DANGERS OF THE MILITARY – INDUSTRIAL – POLITICAL COMPLEX AND ITS INTRINSIC TENDENCY TOWARDS WAR AND MILITARISM ECHOS HERE.

3. THE G