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« What Issues Aren't Getting Addressed? | Main | Michael Winship: Say Anything »

Bailout Blues?

(Photo by Robin Holland)

This week on the JOURNAL, scholar Emma Coleman Jordan talked about the economic crisis and the controversial government bailout legislation. When Bill Moyers asked who stands to lose in the economic rescue package, she replied:

“The middle class is getting the short end of the stick, and those who are in that bottom quintile, the bottom 20 percent, who are not getting basic needs met and are struggling to get by everyday.”

As the McClatchy Washington Bureau reports, many citizens and elected officials have been ambivalent about the bailout, troubled by some of the legislation's provisions but reluctant to stand in its way.

"Rep. Jim McGovern, D-Mass., summed up the feelings of many of his colleagues when he described the legislation as 'far from perfect' but acknowledged: 'The way I see it we don't have much choice.' ... Lobbyists from banks and giant corporations joined ordinary citizens throughout the week in urging House members to support the bill. Public opinion earlier ran strongly against the measure — widely perceived as a bailout for Wall Street — but sentiment shifted after the first House vote, when a stock-market plunge hammered millions of stock-backed 401(k) retirement plans."

What do you think?

  • Do you support the bailout package that President Bush signed into law this afternoon? Why or why not?
  • Do you trust lawmakers to practice effective stewardship over the economy?
  • What actions do you suggest Americans take to try to prevent similar crises in the future?


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    Comments

    TO,

    Honorable Sir/ Madam,

    With due respect, I submit few lines for your kind consideration. I have come to know through reliable sources that you are devoted service for the well being of human rights.

    I have poor family my children are going his school and college.

    If you would not help us then education will remain incomplete.

    Incidentally I may submit that I have a large poor family.

    Therefore there is no financial support for me. Please financial help me,I will not only be a great act of charity on your honor part.I am waiting your favourable reply.

    I request you please help me for purpose of this letter and not disappointed me.

    With best regards.

    Yours faithfully

    Mrs farzana yasmin

    C/O Khursheed alam

    E-158/A SATELLITE TOWN

    Rawalpindi (Pakistan)

    Harrisalam333@hotmail.COM

    It's unfortunate that the bailout seems to have been all but forgotten by the American people. We jump from catastrophy to catastrophy yet life goes on. The people in this country should be up in arms. The people in this country should be marching in the streets. Where are the picketers that should be marching in from of AIG and Lehmann Brothers, with signs that read, "Seize the personal assets of these CEO's."? Where are the people that should be organizing and marching on Washington? Nowhere! Our letters to our congressmen were so polite. While we were being polite, we were robbed blind.

    Questioning the American Bolshevik views
    1. Is wealth redistribution taking money from stockholders and redistributing it to those who don’t pay taxes?
    2. Is it more important to make sure that illegal votes are not disenfranchised or making sure that groups like ACORN do not nullify honest votes.
    3. Would premature U.S. withdrawal from Iraq grand jihadists a victory and make all of our accomplishments, money spent and lives lost a big waist?
    4. Can this country afford to grant socialist Democrats total control of the government and allow them to sacrifice our safety by cutting the military budget by 25%?
    Now comes the big question. How do we stop socialism from ruining our lives?
    The answer is simple. Don’t vote American Bolsheviks into power and boycott the socialist propaganda media into bankruptcy.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjvBEKrGkDI
    Cybercorrespondent

    Financial Crises and the Way to Recovery

    The term “shocking” can’t even come close to describe the severity of the financial crises that we are faced with. According to Barack Obama, the only way we can get out of this mess is for this country to adapt socialistic values and enforce socialism by gaining control of all three branches of government. I’m sure that the mountain of money his campaign has collected from domestic and foreign donors, names the Obama campaign won’t disclose, will be used for that purpose. As soon as total control is gained, organizations like ACORN will have a green light to further abuse the law to suppress free speech, control the outcomes of elections and brain wash children in schools to believe that socialism is the answer to all of our problems. With total control of the government, and help from people like Bill Ayers, Rev. Wright and Antoin Rezko, who will probably be pardoned, achieving the ultimate goal, “a life of sexual confusion and moral collapse” will become a strong possibility.
    The proof that socialism, or spreading the wealth around does not work can be seen by examining ACORN and its accomplishments by manipulating bancs to make loans to minorities with bad credit. By using charges of racism and threats to use CRA to block business expansions, ACORN and Obama already contributed to the crises we are in today and finding new ways to distribute the wealth will only make the situation much worse. His idea to put a three-month moratorium on foreclosures will further weaken the already fragile banking industry and only benefit delinquent homeowners by allowing them to live rent-free.
    In order for our economy to start prospering again, we first need to elect an honest leader who is determined to stamp out the corruption in government and to stop the leftist movement from destroying the middle class. The hard working people can no longer be expected to keep giving until they themselves have nothing left to give.

    Cybercorrespondent
    http://cybercorrespondent.blogspot.com

    Sect. Paulson on C. Rose show Oct. 21st said that the $250 Billion for giant banks has not been distributed yet!!!!!!

    This from the man that demanded, almost a month ago, $700 Billion in unmarked bills, that he would use as he saw fit, with no accountability to anyone! B. Franks agreed!

    Paulson may be smart, he does talk a lot, but says nothing of substance, and he is no Gen. Patraius! We need a plan-do-er! NOW!

    Paulson sounded as though he would act immediately! What plans had he? Must not have been close to what Congress approved.

    Why are they waiting? Do they think MAINSTREET will lose interest & they can then do what they 1st planned? What did they want to do with the Billions?

    My wife & I have talked about the looming construction bust for several yrs. & the 'experts' claim this was a surprise!

    THERE IS A MAJOR COVERUP & MORE WILL COME FILTERING OUT! How could Congress, the Fed. regulators, the White House, etc. have NOT KNOWN this could not go on for ever? Ostrich brains!

    Billy Bob, Florida where at least Obama told us he would not count our votes unlike the financial world that said the fundamentals are solid!

    The problem with framing the bailout as a blues tune is that it fails to capture the activism at the core of the cascading bailouts we've seen. People who sing the blues would never be such energetic interventionists.

    I've imagined several theme songs for the bailouts on the military analogy, which you can see and listen to at http://reasonableminds.wordpress.com/2008/10/04/patriotic-songs-for-our-newest-national-protectors/. Here is my favorite, "The Bailouts Go Rolling Along":

    THE BAILOUTS GO ROLLING ALONG
    sung to the tune of The Army Goes Rolling Along

    Over hill, over dale, our economy is frail
    So the bailouts go rolling along.
    Wall Street banks, strapped for cash, need the feds to buy their trash
    So the bailouts go rolling along.

    When the credit crunch ate investment banks for lunch,
    They asked — and boy! did they receive!
    If you’re big enough, Congress likes to give you stuff,
    So the bailouts go rolling along.

    CEOs get the checks, we get debt up to our necks,
    As the bailouts go rolling along.
    We add their lousy bets to our massive national debts,
    As the bailouts go rolling along.

    When the credit crunch ate investment banks for lunch,
    They asked — and boy! did they receive!
    If you’re big enough, Congress likes to give you stuff,
    So the bailouts go rolling along.

    There is a song out now called "Bailout Blues" that beautifully captures this highway robbery of the taxpayers.

    "I got them seven hundred billion kill ya
    upper east side diamonds thrill ya
    seersucker motherfu***er
    wall street worship
    god of trillions blooooz
    Welcome to the bailout blooooz

    Put your hands up
    in the air
    wave 'em round
    like you just don't care
    you're being robbed
    Welcome to the bailout blooooz.."

    http://joelmoore.bandcamp.mu/

    There is a song out now called "Bailout Blues" that beautifully captures this highway robbery of the taxpayers.

    "I got them seven hundred billion kill ya
    upper east side diamonds thrill ya
    seersucker motherfu***er
    wall street worship
    god of trillions blooooz
    Welcome to the bailout blooooz

    Put your hands up
    in the air
    wave 'em round
    like you just don't care
    you're being robbed
    Welcome to the bailout blooooz.."

    http://joelmoore.bandcamp.mu/

    Emma Coleman Jordan puts the "rescue" in context. This is a good guest who should return. She could learn more about the specifics of business, but her understanding of justice is overwhelming. This was a bulls-eye for Bill in a string of wild shooting.

    I thought Ms. Jamieson failed to name the extreme deceptions, maliciousness, and inflammatory nature of McCain's and Palin's campaign during the past two weeks. There is little equivalency between their campaign and Obama's and Biden's campaign of late. To fail to name the insidious effects of McCain's and especially Palin's rant that results in crowds shouting "treason," "terrorist," and "kill him!" is irresponsible on both Ms. Jamieson's and Mr. Moyer's parts. Republicans and Democrats alike have found this turn in the campaign shocking and a possible danger to Senator Obama's personal safety. Both Governor Palin's and Senator McCain's behavior has been reprehensible, fueling anger and bigotry rather than discussing and contrasting ideas and positions on crucial issues our nation is confronting. That said, I agree that both teams should strive for a high level of honesty and integrity during the campaign.

    The coming home to roost of fraudulent predatory business practises and debt in the tumbling markets reminds one that there is retribution. Perhaps the national public outcry over the bailout is well summed up in this Bible passage:
    "Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth-eaten. Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days. Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth. Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts as in a day of slaughter." James 5:1-5

    I wish more people watched your show, it should be mandatory ,I was wondering if you could ask some of your guests what would have happened if we put our Social Security dollars into the stock market, and how much john McCain supported that idea?

    Stanley-lots of consonants:
    Karl Marx is not at issue. He died poor and broke in the 19th century. Use your edit button, search for "Gladdie", and tell me if you agree with what she asserts. Yes, China is a lawless corporation, is the U.S.????????????????????

    RE: William Woods Higgins Oct 10 post
    Mr Higgins, you seem to feel this is not about Smith, Malthus, Ricardo, Keynes, etc. and the folks from Harvard, Yale, Princeton who refer to them. Yet, you find Marx to be not of this ilk. How so?
    What Marx missed, but material manifested historically, was the state as corporation. Small “third world” states had been acting this way for years. The Soviet Union was unable to make this transition and collapsed. China did it magnificently. Now some headlines question whether China will be able to get us out of this crisis (after all, brand “China” has a lot of capital). Now all the other “nation- states” are jumping on board, buying into banks in order to become brand England, US or France. Hunter Thompson was correct in his prognosis but Marx didn’t entertain it. Perhaps he needs to be put in the same column with Smith, Malthus and friends?
    And what’s with this “ideas change the world”? This is not the “consciousness does not determine life, life determines consciousness” that Karl wrote of.

    Here's what we're doing locally:

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    TVN is extending its support of the Capital Area Food Bank (CAFB) for an additional 30 days. Each time a business gets a listing in the GREEN BOOK, TVN will donate $5 to the CAFB, AND every time a business gets a TVN video production package, TVN will donate $10 to the CAFB.

    For more information, visit us online at www.textcoupons.info (for computers) or www.gogreenbook.mobi (for mobile devices).

    One of the most distasteful factor in all the commentary and interviews I have heard about this whole process of journalistic investigation is the amount of times one must be subjected to hearing expert,authority, Harvard, Princeton, Yale, and others, whose actions and alumni have premeditatedly been respnsible for all this...And then giving the former CEO of Goldman Sachs $700 Billion to help his buddies because there is a liquidity problem-this means there is no cash in all those retirement funds, and I might add, all the cash that was supposed to be there for the baby-boomers when they retired. Bush knew this when he wanted to privatize social security a while back, and anybody with a brain knew this was wholesale fraud for the Wall Street professionals.

    Can anybody imagine lending somebody money for a house, who did not have the money for a downpayment and then lending them the downpayment. Banks can only make money through interest they make on lending money, and loan officers are paid commissions on the valuations of the loans they sell. Anything complicated in understanding this?

    When Thomas Jefferson sounded the dream of America to be the government that governs least governs best it was built on the concept of the agrarian polis, not the American dream of Alexander Hamilton...De-Regulation referred to the former Founding Father's vision, not the latter's.As an aside to this, a practical aside, and with all due respect to your friend Hank, there is a continual dialogue to answer how to pay for healthcare for every American, and we, the American taxpayer just purchased and own the largest insurance company in the world, AIG…HMMM…How will we pay for health care? Better yet: Didn’t we just pay for it? How foolish of me for such simplicity, when it is so much more complex than this! But is it?


    The only thing about common sense is it just aint common.

    More to the point, this is not about invisible hands, rates of exchange, commodities, or capital; nor is it a discussion of the theories of Adam Smith, Parson Malthus, David Ricardo, Thorstein Veblen, John Maynard Keynes, or many others held in similar esteem. It is about somebody who really understood capitalism, and a concept fundamental to understanding the state of economic affairs in the world today.

    The concept is the concentration and centralization of capital; the ‘somebody’ is somebody everybody knows of, but few know anything about. Yet if I mentioned his name at this point, without making the point first, it would be as bad as telling those possessed by the spirits of the Biblical cults that Abrahamic gods are not what Thomas Jefferson is referring to when he chose the terms the Powers of the Earth and Natures God in the first paragraph of The Declaration of Independence.

    But I do have faith that genuine education occurs in spite of everything that is done to prevent it.

    " What gives a cumulative impetus to the flux of events is something we have not yet considered—the effects of the micromovements of the system.

    By far the most important of these effects is the systematic change in the size and unification of command of the capitalist enterprise. Marx calls this process the concentration and centralization of capital. It is the process by which giant companies become the typical operational units of mature capitalism, as successful businesses generate additional capital from their own sales and as they acquire assets of weaker competitors during periods of crisis.

    Thus the succession of crises brings about a steady change in the texture of the economic system. Concentration and centralization alter the universe of atomistic capitals into one macromolecular capital. With this change comes an intensification of the effects of crisis, for large enterprises create major wreckage when they go under. The severity of the crisis thereby becomes ever more acute.

    The succession of worsening crises changes the political scene as well as the economic setting. As large corporations expand, they winnow the ranks of weaker capitalist elements. One capitalist always kills many, comments Marx (Capital, I, p. 763). Thus we find the petty capitalist pushed to the wall and reduced to the proletarian—wage earning---status, just as the independent peasant proprietor and artisan were proletarianized earlier in capitalism’s history. The social classes of capitalism are thereby purged of intermediate elements and appear even more starkly in two opposing camps---the great majority of who have no access to livelihood except through the sale of their labor power and a small class of capitalists who own the great bulk of the means of production. Meanwhile, the confused perceptions of the working class are exposed to repeated hammer blows that gradually forge the metal of a revolutionary consciousness.

    In this way, the interior movements of the system impart a trend to its fluctuations, bringing the series of crises toward the climax of a final catastrophic crisis. Marx does not directly describe a specific mechanism of collapse. In consequence, there has been considerable disagreement among his successors as to the timing, and nature, and inevitable breakdown."

    In conclusion, I believe it might be high time that we seriously consider Hunter S. Thompson’s prediction of the end product of the political economy of this democracy to be a socialist-fascist state.
    In conjunction with all this, I recently saw a bumper sticker on the car of a very intelligent theoretical physicist and philosopher, who was my mentor and advisor in graduate school, stating:

    Think Education is Expensive? Just try Ignorance!

    Of course then there is examining the reason why Charles S. Thompson chose the Safe Eye of Atlantis and the Eagle’s eyes facing the olive branches (ideas) rather than the spears (power) as the symbols of the principles of genuine democracy, and since there is nothing really difficult in anything I said, I guess we can all take it from here…

    And I also, as well as many more, would expect this and much more than abstractions and sixth grade civics from individuals running for the presidency of the United States, the people analyzing it and the American citizens themselves.

    Realizing I am kind of a novice at this type of stuff, thank you for your time, because I am by no means trying to waste it.

    Remember, Ideas Change The World!
    &
    Best Wishes in All Your Future Endeavors.

    Most Sincerely and Appreciatively,
    William Woods Higgins,
    Utchateye@lowcountry.com
    http://www.religiousandsymbolicgametheory.com/

    The long quote is taken from Robert L. Heilbroner’s Marxism: For and Against, published by WW Norton and Company, New York and London, Fifth Edition, Copyright, Robert L. Heilbroner, 1980, pages 124 and 125. Obviously, I strongly suggest reading this whether for or against.

    “The middle class is getting the short end of the stick, and those who are in that bottom quintile, the bottom 20 percent, who are not getting basic needs met and are struggling to get by everyday.” Professor Jordan is correct-the middle class is deliberately excluded from the political dialogue, particularly by Republican government.
    Obama’s campaign and convention speeches centered around “what do you, the American people, need.” McCain’s convention and acceptance speech was entirely self-centered, and selfish: “I’m going to fight for my cause every day.” How nice for you, Senator McCain. What about the rest of America?
    Well, Senator McCain thinks the rest of America can fend for itself. In McCain’s own words: “I’m not running because I think I’m anointed to save my country in her hour of need.” Well, then why the heck should we vote for you?! If you’re running for any other reason, get down off the stage honey, we need the wood! We can burn it to keep warm this winter, while we wait for your seven year drilling program to improve oil prices.
    But McCain’s relationship to the realities of the rest of America is tangential to begin with. His campaign acceptance speech urged us to “stand up for beautiful, bountiful, blessed America!” What is he on? What America is he talking about? America may have been bountiful for McCain, the lobbyist king, but to quote an old Wizard of Id cartoon, “outside the royal greenhouse, Sire, it’s a bad scene.”
    The American middle class McCain was supposedly addressing didn’t find Republican America so “bountiful”! They can’t pay their fuel bills to keep their kids warm in winter, let alone the grocery and the medical bills…and that’s if they’re lucky enough to have a job and health insurance in the first place! They’re losing their homes! All the while McCain is burbling on about “bountiful America.” Who the heck are you talking to, Senator McCain? And why would Americans be crazy enough to sign up with the Republicans for four more years of this?
    The Republican convention as a whole came off as “well, we’re all right, so the heck with you.” Or, to quote McCain again, “the fundamentals of the U.S. economy are sound.” Yeah. I suppose anyone with seventeen houses and married to an heiress would believe that. But for the rest of us, it’s gonna be a dammned cold winter.
    Not that McCain, the American Stuffed Eagle, will notice. In fact, McCain’s entire demeanor reminds me of Sam the Eagle from the old Muppet Show; he croaks platitudes at the drop of a hat, he’s completely out of touch with reality, and he comes off like a stuffed vulture. And should he, God forbid, drop dead while in office (to quote West Wing, “not completely out of the realm of possibility”), he’s selected Sarah Palin to safeguard America’s future. Oh God. We’ll be at war with France by noon. Do we really want to see McCain make any more Presidential “judgment calls” of this caliber?
    Obama. He’s got a brain, he’s got a pulse, he doesn’t come off like a stuffed vulture when he speaks…and he remembers that there is a rest of America, those that McCain only refers to as “those less blessed than we.” Outside the royal greenhouse, Sire, it’s a bad scene…so hopefully the American middle class will vote for someone slightly less blinkered than McCain.


    One point which has been brought up several times on your show is that the general American public was not asked to contribute to the war. Bush told us to shop. Today again, we take the first steps of a difficult journey. We're shaking the very foundation of our country because of our obsession with consumption. So, you can't help but wonder, what can the general American public do?

    To me, one abundantly clear answer is that we should all become educated consumers and that we should all fundamentally agree that the kind of capitalism which preys on consumers is not the kind that is wanted here.

    Does anyone else have any ideas?

    The Bear market will eat us alive if we do not feed it more red meat. If we want to get back to a bull market; we will need to get back to the grass roots.
    We need a comprehensive investigation into the generation of money.
    The fat cats are out of the bag. Our economy is based on imaginary money numbers and it is time to reduce the numbers by claiming that the debt never existed. We can cancel all debt and start with a clean slate. We could begin with a trickle up economy that supports the demand side of economics that would in turn support the supply side of the economy thereby providing reasonable profits for meaningful investments. Apparently the World Bank and the feds have been doing creative economics.
    We exist in a created reality and we need to create an economic system that maximizes the use of our intelligence, our resources and our technology. We can create a country that is based on the lifestyles it intended with justice and equity for "we the people".
    dave

    DEFINETELY WE ARE IN THE BEGINNINGS OF A FASCIST PERIOD AND I AGREE WITH MANY OF THE PEOPLE OR BLOGGERS THAT HAVE WRITTEN ABOUT THIS IN THIS BAILOUT BLUES BLOG. IF WE DON'T STAND OURSELVES FULL BODY & MIND (PEACEFULLY, BUT WITH DETERMINATION), AND NOT THROUGH THE INTERNET, WE ARE GOING TO BE MORE AND MORE PRISONERS OF OUR FASCIST GOVERNMENT AND OUR UNESCRUPULOUS CORPORATE HEADS. WE ARE GOING TO BE FOR LIFE PRISONERS OF THAT WEALTHY 1% OF THIS COUNTRY WHICH INCLUDES OUR LEGISLATIVE, EXECUTIVE, AND JUDICIAL GOVERNMENT. WE NEED A COMPLETELY NEW & REAL DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENT AND COUNTRY AS OUR FOREFATHERS MEANT IT!!

    I have made 15 entries on several web logs of Bill Moyers Journal. I started out sad and in earnest trying to offer solutions and expose negative facts and all that has made me miserable so I have slowly come around to the point of not taking it seriously for the following reasons.

    First, AIG got a reward of 37 Billion Dollars for its $440,000 Dollar swindle of the taxpayer money. Golly, who knew 85 Billion plus 37 Billion… that is another $1.22 Billion Dollars down the drain and the PARTIES keep rolling along. Go get’m AIG… God knows you’re on a roll.

    Man, Warren Buffett who cried and whined for the bail out, is he not going gang busters? Did I already tell you if you call your broker and ask to buy the same financial instrument he did that you can’t…. I did and I couldn’t.

    Mc Cain, well there is someone who needs an interpreter, well maybe he knows who he means but the taxpayer I don’t think is so lucky. John Mc Cain in not a good man. When he says he wants to serve his Country and always has served his Country, he didn’t explain that his Country is the Corporation and the 1% Wealthy who include the Captains of Industry and the Wall Street guys who just took US (us) to the cleaners.

    Mc Cain has never served the people nor does he intend to.

    In all fairness to Obama he won’t say what he will do so I don’t trust either of them but I will say this both caved in for the Wall Street Bail Out and neither stood against the tide or for helping the taxpayer.

    But, in fairness to you taxpayers, what was the last time you voted against an incumbent? And do you realize in November you have a chance to send most of the House of Representatives packing. (My bet is that you won’t vote out one incumbent.)

    George Bush ran for president for one reason… Revenge! Now we have war in 3 countries and a financial failure so complete it will be 5 to 10 years in finding a way through it. And did you notice the smile on his face as he talked about it and couldn’t contain his joy. Now you know why wise men say revenge is a dish best served cold. But shucks, who is keeping score.

    Certainly not Bernanke or Paulson. For heaven’s sake, I don’t know which one wants to spend the most… Paulson on his Wall Street and Banking

    friends or Bernanke on his Corporations… the Oil Companies have made so much I guess they are at the end of the line but AIG, GM, Ford, damn, I just can’t keep up with all of them. If there is anyone out there listening maybe you would like to post a list of Bernanke’s friends.

    Now for the final point: The US Treasury is located in several locations and prints money in each one (I know about San Francisco, Denver, and Philadelphia) and the US has been accustomed to spending money, to get its way, to change what it didn’t like, and especially to bail out the Rich 1%.

    I hate to inform you of the following but the Federal Government can’t bail out the world… and you are watching the melt down of the United States of America. If no one stops Bush, Paulson, and Bernanke, this Government will be so in debt and the money will be so worthless that no Country any where in the world will give us the time of day.

    Somebody needs to stop the bleeding of American and let the SOB’s who swindled US (us) fail. When the Corporations found out they could be paid for failing… that was the end of America as we know it!

    But good or bad, it is my country and I am sticking to the FDIC, the US Post Office (money orders) and I-Savings Bonds. I want to be with the last financial institutions to fail…. Then I and Uncle Same can sit around the fire and tell stories of the old days when regulation kept the devil at bay and we had time to enjoy the countryside and all that means.

    So it is me and Uncle Sam (FDIC Banks-USPS Money Orders-Treasury Saving Bonds). Don’t believe in SIPC - Securities Investor Protection Corporation because when all the brokers fail there will be no one to pay you.

    You have Gold or Uncle Sam. I am an Uncle Sam kind of guy and I hope when we get through all this two things happen.

    No Global Economy and a Federal Government that puts PEOPLE First. (Bring home the jobs, reinstate the middle class, and no downsizing the Social Security System which is the last and best chance the poor have for keeping the wolf away from the door.

    What chance do you give me for getting what I want?

    fau: How about summing up your "one finding" in two or three cogent sentences. It would get a far better reception.
    I saw a guillotine on e-bay Tuesday, closes tonight, wanna go halves on buy it now. I'd like to see Oprah "buy it", and Phil Graham "buy it", and Bill gates "buy it" (No wait, isn't he the voice of Kermit the Frog?) and all the richies "buy it".
    It's only 1789! Storm the Bastille!

    Amazing. The first ever global depression will go down in history horribly misunderstood. What a pathetic bunch of ignorant fools we have become. Consumer junkie credit card morons. Perfect little victims. Say that reminds me.

    Don’t believe one optimistic word from any public figure about the economy or humanity in general. They are all part of the problem. Its like a game of Monopoly. In America, the richest 1% now hold ALMOST 1/2 OF ALL UNITED STATES WEALTH. Unlike ‘lesser’ estimates, this includes all stocks, bonds, cash, offshore accounts, and material assets held by America’s richest 1%. Even that filthy pig Oprah acknowledged that it was at about 50% in 2006. Naturally, she put her own ‘humanitarian’ spin on it. Calling attention to her own ‘good will’. WHAT A DISGUSTING HYPOCRITE SLOB. THE RICHEST ONE PERCENT HAVE LITERALLY MADE WORLD PROSPERITY ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE. Don’t fall for any of their ‘humanitarian’ CRAP. ITS A SHAM. THESE PEOPLE ARE CAUSING THE SAME PROBLEMS THEY PRETEND TO CARE ABOUT. Ask any professor of economics. Money does not grow on trees. The government can’t just print up more on a whim. At any given time, there is a relative limit to the wealth within ANY economy of ANY size. So when too much wealth accumulates at the top, the middle class slip further into debt and the lower class further into poverty. A similar rule applies worldwide. The world’s richest 1% now own over 40% of ALL WORLD WEALTH. This is EVEN AFTER you account for all of this ‘good will’ ‘humanitarian’ BS from celebrities and executives. ITS A SHAM. As they get richer and richer, less wealth is left circulating beneath them. This is the single greatest underlying cause for the current US recession. The middle class can no longer afford to sustain their share of the economy. Their wealth has been gradually transfered to the richest 1%. One way or another, we suffer because of their incredible greed. We are talking about TRILLIONS of dollars which have been transfered FROM US TO THEM. All over a period of about 27 years. Thats Reaganomics for you. The wealth does not ‘trickle down’ as we were told it would. It just accumulates at the top. Shrinking the middle class and expanding the lower class. Causing a domino effect of socio-economic problems. But the rich will never stop. They just keep getting richer. Leaving even less of the pie for the other 99% of us to share. At the same time, they throw back a few tax deductible crumbs and call themselves ‘humanitarians’. Cashing in on the PR and getting even richer the following year. IT CAN’T WORK THIS WAY. Their bogus efforts to make the world a better place can not possibly succeed. Any ‘humanitarian’ progress made in one area will be lost in another. EVERY SINGLE TIME. IT ABSOLUTELY CAN NOT WORK THIS WAY. This is going to end just like a game of Monopoly. The current US recession will drag on for years and lead into the worst US depression of all time. The richest 1% will live like royalty while the rest of us fight over jobs, food, and gasoline. So don’t fall for any of this PR CRAP from Hollywood, Pro Sports, and Wall Street PIGS. ITS A SHAM. Remember: They are filthy rich EVEN AFTER their tax deductible contributions. Greedy pigs. Now, we are headed for the worst economic and cultural crisis of all time. Crime, poverty, and suicide will skyrocket. SEND A “THANK YOU” NOTE TO YOUR FAVORITE MILLIONAIRE. ITS THEIR FAULT. I’m not discounting other factors like China, sub-prime, or gas prices. But all of those factors combined still pale in comparison to that HUGE transfer of wealth to the rich. Anyway, those other factors are all related and further aggrivated because of GREED. If it weren’t for the OBSCENE distribution of wealth within our country, there never would have been such a market for sub-prime to begin with. IF IT WEREN’T FOR THE OBSCENE, UNREASONABLE, AND UNJUST DISTRIBUTION OF UNITED STATES WEALTH, THERE NEVER WOULD HAVE BEEN SUCH A MARKET FOR SUB-PRIME AND THERE NEVER WOULD HAVE BEEN A COLLAPSE IN THE HOUSING MARKET. Sub-prime did not cause the problem. It only accelerated the outcome. Which by the way, was another trick whipped up by greedy bankers and executives. IT MAKES THEM RICHER. The credit industry has been ENDORSED by people like Oprah Winfrey, Ellen DeGeneres, Dr Phil, and many other celebrities. IT MAKES THEM RICHER. In fact, they specifically endorsed Countrywide by name. The same Countrywide widely responsible for predatory adjustable rate sub-prime lending and the accelerated collapse of the housing market. ENDORSED BY OPRAH WINFREY, ELLEN DEGENERES, AND DR PHIL. Now, there are commercial ties between nearly every industry and every public figure. IT MAKES THEM RICHER. It also drives up the cost for nearly every product and service on the market. So don’t fall for their ‘good will’ BS. ITS A LIE. If you fall for it, then you’re a fool. If you see any real difference between the moral character of a celebrity, politician, attorney, or executive, then you’re a fool. No offense fellow citizens. But we have been mislead by nearly every public figure. We still are. Even now, they claim to be ‘hurting’ right along with the rest of us. As if gas prices actually effect the lifestyle of a millionaire. ITS A LIE. IN 2007, THE RICHEST 1% INCREASED THEIR AVERAGE BOTTOM LINE WEALTH AGAIN. On average, they are now worth over $4,000,000 each. Thats an all time high. As a group, they are now worth well over $17,000,000,000,000. THATS WELL OVER SEVENTEEN TRILLION DOLLARS. Another all time high. Which by the way, is much more than the entire middle and lower classes combined. Also more than enough to pay off our national debt, fund the Iraq war for a decade, repair our infrastructure, and bail out the US housing market. Still think that our biggest problem is China? Think again. Its the 1% club. That means every big name celebrity, athlete, executive, entrepreneur, developer, banker, and lottery winner. Along with many attorneys, doctors, and politicians. If they are rich, then they are part of the problem. Their incredible wealth was not ‘created’, ‘generated’, grown in their back yard, or printed up on their command. It was transfered FROM US TO THEM. Directly and indirectly. Its become near impossible to spend a dollar without making some greedy pig even richer. Don’t be fooled by the occasional loss of a millionaire’s fortune. Overall, they just keep getting richer. They absolutely will not stop. Still, they have the nerve to pretend as if they care about ordinary people. ITS A LIE. NOTHING BUT CALCULATED PR CRAP. WAKE UP PEOPLE. THEIR GOAL IS TO WIN THE GAME. The 1% club will always say or do whatever it takes to get as rich as possible. Without the slightest regard for anything or anyone but themselves. Reaganomics. Their idea. Loans from China. Their idea. NAFTA. Their idea. Outsourcing. Their idea. Sub-prime. Their idea. High energy prices. Their idea. Oil ‘futures’. Their idea. Obscene health care charges. Their idea. The commercial lobbyist. Their idea. The multi-million dollar lawsuit. Their idea. The multi-million dollar endorsement deal. Their idea. $200 cell phone bills. Their idea. $200 basketball shoes. Their idea. $30 late fees. Their idea. $30 NSF fees. Their idea. $20 DVDs. Their idea. Subliminal advertising. Their idea. Brainwash plots on TV. Their idea. Vioxx, and Celebrex. Their idea. Excessive medical testing. Their idea. The MASSIVE campaign to turn every American into a brainwashed, credit card, pharmaceutical, medical testing, love-sick, celebrity junkie. Their idea. All of the above drive up the cost of living, shrink the middle class, concentrate the world’s wealth and resources, create a dominoe effect of socio-economic problems, and wreak havok on society. All of which have been CREATED AND ENDORSED by celebrities, athletes, executives, entrepreneurs, attorneys, and politicians. IT MAKES THEM RICHER. So don’t fall for any of their ‘good will’ ‘humanitarian’ BS. ITS A SHAM. NOTHING BUT TAX DEDUCTIBLE PR CRAP. In many cases, the ‘charitable’ contribution is almost entirely offset. Not to mention the opportunity to plug their name, image, product, and ‘good will’ all at once. Which is usually done just before or after the release of their latest commercial project. IT MAKES THEM RICHER. These filthy pigs even have the nerve to throw a fit and spin up a misleading defense with regard to ‘federal tax revenue’. ITS A SHAM. THEY SCREWED UP THE EQUATION TO BEGIN WITH. If the middle and lower classes had a greater share of the pie, they could easily cover a greater share of the federal tax revenue. They are held down in many ways because of greed. Wages remain stagnant for millions because the executives, celebrities, athletes, attorneys, and entrepreneurs, are paid millions. They over-sell, over-charge, under-pay, outsource, cut jobs, and benefits to increase their bottom line. As their profits rise, so do the stock values. Which are owned primarily by the richest 5%. As more United States wealth rises to the top, the middle and lower classes inevitably suffer. This reduces the potential tax reveue drawn from those brackets. At the same time, it wreaks havok on middle and lower class communities and increases the need for financial aid. Not to mention the spike in crime because of it. There is a dominoe effect to consider. IT CAN’T WORK THIS WAY. But our leaders refuse to acknowledge this. Instead they come up with one trick after another to milk the system and screw the majority. These decisions are heavily influensed by the 1% club. Every year, billions of federal tax dollars are diverted behind the scenes back to the rich and their respective industries. Loans from China have been necessary to compensate in part, for the red ink and multi-trillion dollar transfer of wealth to the rich. At the same time, the feds have been pushing more financial burden onto the states who push them lower onto the cities. Again, the hardship is felt more by the majority and less by the 1% club. The rich prefer to live in exclusive areas or upper class communities. They get the best of everything. Reliable city services, new schools, freshly paved roads, upscale parks, ect. The middle and lower class communities get little or nothing without a local tax increase. Which, they usually can’t afford. So the red ink flows followed by service cuts and lay-offs. All because of the OBSCENE distribution of bottom line wealth in this country. Anyway, when you account for all federal, state, and local taxes, the middle class actually pay about the same rate as the rich. The devil is in the details. So when people forgive the rich for their incredible greed and then praise them for paying a greater share of the FEDERAL income taxes, its like nails on a chalk board. I can not accept any theory that our economy would suffer in any way with a more reasonable distribution of wealth. Afterall, it was more reasonable 30 years ago. Before Reaganomics came along. Before GREED became such an epidemic. Before we had an army of over-paid executives, bankers, celebrities, athletes, attorneys, doctors, investors, entrepreneurs, developers, and sold-out politicians to kiss their asses. As a nation, we were in much better shape. Strong middle class, free and clear assets, lower crime rate, more widespread prosperity, stable job market, lower deficit, ect. Our economy as a whole was much more stable and prosperous for the majority. WITHOUT LOANS FROM CHINA. Now, we have a more obscene distribution of bottom line wealth than ever before. We have a sold-out government, crumbling infrastructure, energy crisis, home forclosure epidemic, credit crunch, weak US dollar, 13 figure national deficit, and 12 figure annual shortfall. The cost of living is higher than ever before. Most people can’t even afford basic health care. ALL BECAUSE OF GREED. I really don’t blame the 2nd -5th percentiles in general. No economy could ever function without some reasonable scale of personal wealth and income. But it can’t be allowed to run wild like a mad dog. ALBERT EINSTEIN TRIED TO MAKE PEOPLE UNDERSTAND. UNBRIDLED CAPITALISM ABSOLUTELY CAN NOT WORK. TOP HEAVY ECONOMIES ALWAYS COLLAPSE. Bottom line: The richest 1% will soon tank the largest economy in the world. It will be like nothing we’ve ever seen before. The American dream will be shattered. and thats just the beginning. Greed will eventually tank every major economy in the world. Causing millions to suffer and die. Oprah, Angelina, Brad, Bono, and Bill are not part of the solution. They are part of the problem. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A MULTI-MILLIONAIRE HUMANITARIAN. EXTREME WEALTH MAKES WORLD PROSPERITY ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE. WITHOUT WORLD PROSPERITY, THERE WILL NEVER BE WORLD PEACE OR ANYTHING EVEN CLOSE. GREED KILLS. IT WILL BE OUR DOWNFALL. Of course, the rich will throw a fit and call me a madman. Of course, they will jump to small minded conclusions about ‘jealousy’, ‘envy’, or ’socialism’. Of course, their ignorant fans will do the same. You have to expect that. But I speak the truth. If you don’t believe me, then copy this entry and run it by any professor of economics or socio-economics. Then tell a friend. Call the local radio station. Re-post this entry or put it in your own words. Be one of the first to predict the worst economic and cultural crisis of all time and explain its cause. WE ARE IN BIG TROUBLE.

    So what can we do about it? Well, not much. Unfortunately, we are stuck on a runaway train. The problem has gone unchecked for too many years. The US/global depression is comming thanks to the 1% club. It would take a massive effort by the vast majority to prevent it. Along with a voluntary sacrifice by the rich. THATS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. But if you believe in miracles, then spend your money as wisely as possible. Especially in middle and lower class communities. Check the Fortune 500 list and limit your support of high profit/low labor industries (Hollywood, pro sports, energy, credit, pharmaceutical, cable, satelite, internet advertising, cell phone, high fashion, jewelry, ect.). Cancel all but one credit card for emergencies only. If you need a cell phone, then do your homework and find the best deal on a local pre-pay. If you want home internet access, then use the least expensive provider, and share accounts whenever possible. If you need to search, then use the less popular search engines. They usually produce the same results anyway. Don’t click on any internet ad. If you need the product or service, then look up the phone number or address and contact that business directly. Don’t pay to see any blockbuster movie. Instead, wait a few months and rent the DVD from a local store or buy it USED. If you want to see a big name game or event, then watch it in a local bar, club, or at home on network TV. Don’t buy any high end official merchendise and don’t support the high end sponsors. If its endorsed by a big name celebrity, then don’t buy it. If you can afford a new car, then make an exception for GM, Ford, and Dodge. If they don’t increase their market share soon, then a lot more people are going to get screwed out of their pensions and/or benefits. Of course, you must know by now to avoid those big trucks and SUVs unless you truly need one for its intended purpose. Don’t be ashamed to buy a foreign car if you prefer it. Afterall, those with the most fuel efficient vehicles consume a lot less foreign oil. Which accounts for a pretty big chunk of our trade deficit. Anyway, the global economy is worth supporting to some extent. Its the obscene profit margins, trade deficits, and BS from OPEC that get us into trouble. Otherwise, the global economy would be a good thing for everyone. Just keep in mind that the big 3 are struggling and they do produce a few smaller reliable cars. Don’t frequent any high end department store or any business in a newly developed upper class community. By doing so, you make developers richer and draw support away from industrial areas and away from the middle class communities. Instead, support the local retailer and the less popular shopping centers. Especially in lower or middle class communities. If you can afford to buy a home, then do so. But go smaller and less expensive. Don’t get yourself in too deep and don’t buy into the newly developed condos or gated communities. Instead, find a modest home in a building or neighborhood at least 20 years old. If you live in one of the poorer states, then try to support its economy first and foremost. Be on the lookout for commercial brainwash plots on TV. They are written into nearly every scene of nearly every show. Most cater to network sponsors and parent companies. Especially commercial health care. Big business is fine on occasion depending on the profit margins and profit sharing. Do your homework. If you want to support any legitimate charity, then do so directly. Never support any celebrity foundation. They spend most of their funding on PR campaigns, travel, and high end accomodations for themselves. Instead, go to Charitywatch.org and look up a top rated charity to support your favorite cause. In general, support the little guy as much as possible and the big guy as little as possible. Do your part to reverse the transfer of wealth away from the rich and back to the middle and lower classes. Unfortunately, there is no perfect answer. Jobs will be lost either way. Innocent children will starve and die either way. But we need to support the largest group of workers with the most reasonable profit margins. We also need to support LEGITIMATE charities (Check that list at Charitywatch.org). This is our only chance to limit the severity and/or duration of the comming US/global depression. In the meantime, don’t listen to Bernanke, Paulson, Bartiromo, Orman, Dobbs, Kramer, OReiley, or any other public figure with regard to the economy. They are all plenty smart but I swear to you that they will lie right through their rotten teeth. IT MAKES THEM RICHER. These people work for big business. The ‘experts’ they cite also work for big business. They are all motivated by their desire to accumulate more wealth. THEY WILL LIE RIGHT THROUGH THEIR ROTTEN TEETH. So don’t fall for their tricks. Instead, look at the big picture. The economic problems we face have been mounting for well over 20 years. All of them caused or aggrivated by a constant transfer of wealth from poorer to richer. Soon, it will cause the first ever GLOBAL DEPRESION. Its not brain surgery. Its simple math. Like I said, you are welcome to run this by any professor of economics or socio-economics. If thats not good enough, then look up what Einstein had to say about greed, extreme wealth, and its horrible concequences. I speak the truth. GREED KILLS. IT WILL BE OUR DOWNFALL.

    Its already underway. A massive campaign to divert our attention. Trump, Buffet, OReiley, Dobbs, Pickens, Norris, and several other well known filthy rich public figures have been running their mouths about the economy. Finally admitting a hint of severity after almost 2 years of denial. They even have the nerve to acknowledge the possibility of a US/global depression. Still, they refuse to acknowledge the single greatest underlying cause. Instead, they focus on policies, procedures, and circumstances that were born FROM the underlying cause. Dancing their way around the big picture. DON'T FALL FOR IT. Remember: Our national debt was way up BEFORE sub-prime. Consumer debt was way up BEFORE sub-prime. The cost of living was up BEFORE sub-prime. Wall Street profits were obscene BEFORE sub-prime. The middle class were loosing free and clear assets BEFORE sub-prime. Our infrastructure was in bad shape BEFORE sub-prime. Loans from China were taken out BEFORE sub-prime. The dollar was loosing value BEFORE sub-prime. So don’t let these cowardly filthy rich public figures divert your attention or limit your range of thought. THE CURRENT ECONOMIC CRISIS WAS NOT CAUSED BY A SINGLE POLICY OR PROCEDURE. IT WAS CAUSED PRIMARILY BY A MASSIVE TRANSFER OF WEALTH FROM POOR TO RICH. THIS ALSO REPRESENTS A MASSIVE CONCENTRATION OF CAPITAL WORLDWIDE. OTHERWISE, THERE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN SUCH A MARKET FOR SUB-PRIME AND THERE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN A GLOBAL CREDIT CRUNCH. MONEY DOES NOT GROW ON TREES AND IT DOES NOT JUST FLOAT AWAY. IT ONLY TRANSFERS FROM ONE PARTY TO ANOTHER. ALBERT EINSTEIN TRIED TO MAKE PEOPLE UNDERSTAND. GREED KILLS. IT WILL BE OUR DOWNFALL.

    A word for those who respond with the usual ‘I know more than you. Look how smart, knowledgable, and articulate I am’ crap. Let me say this in advance. I don’t claim to be an expert in this field. But I did go on record with these predictions long before any public figure uttered the word ‘recession’. If you search long enough, you will find my early postings from ‘05′ and ‘06′. Including the first draft of this rant. Since then, I’ve gone on record against people like Greenspan, Bernanke, and Paulson. So far, my predictions have been accurate. Like I said. This is not brain surgery. For the mostpart, its simple math. When you concentrate the world’s wealth, you also concentrate its capital and shrink the middle class along with the potential market for every major industry. Homes go unsold. Bills go unpaid. Banks fail. More products go unsold. Jobs are lost. More banks fail. and so on. and so on. It happened 80 years ago. It will happen again. This time on a global scale. Throughout the cycle, the rich will tighten their grip. Concentrating the world’s wealth and resources even further and ensuring the collapse of every major economy worldwide. Think it can’t happen? Think again. GREED KILLS. IT WILL BE OUR DOWNFALL.

    Another thing. I don’t want credit for any of this. Otherwise, I would have given my full name a long time ago. As far as I’m concerned, you can put this rant in your own words and take credit for all of it. I don’t care. Just spread the word. Otherwise, the greatest injustice of all time will go down in history unchecked.

    By the way. The bailout won’t work. IT WON’T WORK. The plan fails to address the fundamental problem. The middle class don’t need more credit. They need a reasonable share of the economic pie. They also need a lower cost of living and a chance to catch their breath. They need a break from all of the psychological marketing tricks and mass market BS. Most of all, they need to wake up and see the truth. GREED KILLS. IT WILL BE OUR DOWNFALL.

    To my surprise, two public figures have found the courage to acknowledge this problem to some degree. On 11.07.07 former presidential candidate Ron Paul mentioned the massive transfer of wealth from poor to rich. He also hinted at the possibility of economic collapse. He did so on 'Face the Nation'. He was blacklisted almost immediately for doing so. On 9.28.08 former secretary of labor Robert Reich refered to the obscene levels of income inequality as part of a "recipe for disaster". He mentioned the richest one percent in particular. He did so on 'Late Night With Conan OBrien'. As far as I know, Albert Einstein was the first to explain the link between extreme wealth and economic instability. He did so in 1949. He explained how the first Great Depression was actually caused by a massive transfer of wealth from poor to rich. He predicted that it would happen again. We are about to witness the first ever GLOBAL DEPRESSION. Amazing. The prosperity of an entire world is about to be compromised. Almost entirely because of greed. IT WILL BE OUR DOWNFALL.

    The point about our government printing up more money was that it can't be done "on a whim" and that there are serious concequences for doing so (weak dollar, higher gas prices, inflation). I never said that it can't be or hasn't been done at all. Afterall, those loans from china weren't infused in the form of Chinese currency. They were infused in the form of our own. Not given to the middle class but instead to the banks in the form of credit. Its done nothing but perpetuate the problem. It never has been and never will be the answer. Sorry if I wasn't explicit enough the first time. The original draft was written 2 years ago and intended to fit within 300 characters. Anyway, I'm no English major. So if any of you want to re-word this post, feel free to do so. Whatever it takes to make people understand.

    I expected the government to free the average middle/working class citizen from the unscrupulous tactics used by the subprime lenders. They (lenders) took advantage of the fact that the economy was in bad shape and the middle class needed to refinance to get extra funds to support themselves. At the same time they also took advantage of the average American who believed in the "American Dream/Apple Pie" ideology. The lender's were operating in Bush time a.k.a. greed time. This is the era of get in, get it and get out and do it anyway you can. I attended a forum at City Hall back in January 2008. Jesse Jackson was in attendance. Why was he there? The stories of some of the home owners who were paying 6,000.00 a month for a mortgage that was supposed to be 2,000.00 a month was heart wrenching. Some of them were well into their 50's and 60's. I wonder how they ever made out. Now we have the government bailing out the banks who knowingly created this situation in the first place. What's going on? Jobs are going over seas. The CEO's are jumping ship and the crew is being left to drown!!! The government should be freeing it's people from this debt not the crooks! Bill, can you answer this? How many of the American citizens were hit twice? Once in the mortgage scandal and also by the ENRON fiasco? I think this would a good topic of discussion for an upcoming show? I haven't heard anyone discuss this yet. Sincerely, Traci of Brooklyn

    Remember , it is the discredited Bush administration persecuting ACORN and other voting rights advocates. I seriously doubt cybercorrespondent is worried by a poor grassroots public interest organization like ACORN that hoped to make housing affordable for lower income people. What is the ultimate purpose of dwellings except for people to live in? If housing prices are inflated it reflects market manipulation and not demand by price on the part of the public. In the same way ACORN and others have reacted against systematic exclusion of poorer people and minorities from voting by use of illegal purges and inadequate facilities, mostly by the Republican apparatus. It is frustrating because it has amounted to a thwarting of the people's will through voting and the stealing of elections. Not being satisfied elections can be bought by advertising dollars and corporate influence they have resorted to outlaw activity,
    Cyberwhack seems to fear communists and skinheads (Is every bald man a potential terrorist now?). Blaming communists, since they barely exist here, is like blaming blue-skinned transexuals taller than 7 feet.
    I know the Moyers audience won't be influenced by the ravings of this paid fascist (There seem to be plenty.) contractor, spamming up the works. Watch him threaten me and get even crazier when he replies. He won't even read to the bottom of this post but pull more "information" out his ass and fling it.

    Thursday morning I turned on the news and heard that ACORN is under investigation for voter fraud in a number of states. Since I learned not to trust what the media tells us, I decided to have a look what the bloggers had to say. On a sight called A Look Into Barack Obama’s Past - Obamamania - Zimbio website I found the following comment that made me think.
    A concerned citizen
    Oct-6-08 7:48pm [Edit]
    Those two videos paint a very clear picture. As the terrorists have promised, they will destroy this country from with in. …..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puN9X1mVgRA ……..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjvBEKrGkDI …….

    Back to my point. By allowing the voter fraud to go on, makes this great country look like a third world dictatorship. We are supposed to send an example to the rest of the world how honest elections are held and not allow the media to distort the facts. Please people, wake up and tell the media no more. Boycott all the products advertised on publications like the Newsweek, Time magazine and other propaganda machines like the New York Times. Also do the same with CNN and other communist propaganda news sources. Even the Fox News network is starting to sway the viewer decision. After Thursday’s presidential debate, watching Chris Wallace interview a communist from Saint Louis made me sick. Even bad journalists should realize that when you ask a communist or a skin head to give you their views, you can pretty much expect what they are going to say.
    I certainly had enough of all of the $%#@Comunism.org
    Cybercorrespondent

    Part II. Thoughts on the Financial Dilemma: Why Massa Lacks Rationality

    Rationality is well demonstrated by a discussion of the liabilities of our financial system on a morning of up-tick in the markets. When I discuss the way people feel or think it is not in the context of psychology or medicine, or even pure sociology, but what I call socio-technology. Because technology often outstrips government or social norms it often debuts by the commission of crimes against humanity. I write this in the context of my earlier article (shown above).

    The Moyers Journal Blog is a forum of observation and testimony. My husband is employed by one of the two remaining investment houses or Wall Street banks, entities traditionally more loosely regulated than a normal bank. He likens them to the two political parties, a friendly competition, a collusive monopoly over esoteric money transaction, essentially the coteries of elite wealth factions, factions conducting class war on the common people.

    Now we come to the area of my own interest. Esoteric transactions were already confined to a “priestly class” (scribes serving leading interests) before programmed trading and the invention of new instrument systems based upon the theories of particle physics. (derivatives, hedging, currency trading, liability swaps, other) Common people might invest but depended upon experts and system integrity. The more arcane and exclusive these games became, the greater advantage to possessors of great wealth, vast commodities, extraordinary license and extensive property. Certainly there has been no incentive to play fairly, and elite foresight likely posited these systems ultimately as instruments of increased extraction. When I say extraction I mean home equities and retirement accounts of working people as well as our Earthly commonality of oil or gas, beautiful landscapes, and the exhaustible organic humus of the soil, from which comes our collective sustenance. Corporations were always instruments of extraction, but mental exertion and intellect (native or contractual) were required to formulate workable plans. With the computer network as the brain of the corporation it emerges as a juggernaut, but still generally expressive of the will and interests of its owners and controllers. I use the analogy of the runaway salt mill of folktales. The wishful operators have lost the means to stop or slow the mill and are inundated with salts. Have you ever played the game Monopoly to its conclusion? One player has all the money and property so that the game stops for lack of liquidity and credit. This board game is a primitive computer model of our economic system. Anthropologist Leslie White predicted around 1935 that this modern technological culture was rapidly exhausting its viable possibilities. Our cultural evolution does seem generally maladaptive in recent decades, and finances are a major aspect of this malaise. As Grady Lee Howard (my spouse) and Jack Martin, among others, have diagnosed, the assets are log-jammed in too narrow holdings. I blame the lightening speed of the computer-brained financial system, that plays out its “Monopoly” in a micro-second, that is a tool of itself, finding regard for the necessities of life impossible, beyond its scope.

    What is the solution? Well, some community banks with modest deposits and hidebound balance sheets retain a vitality because they are rooted in community activity and have not overstepped the scale of human life. (Human Scale:I think Kirkpatrick Sale originated the concept after Lewis Mumford.) And herein lies the clue to our recovery, if only some inventive minds will extrapolate upon it. Not only is smaller often better (Shumacher), but slower also (Ivan Illich). This subject matter is at the edge of Bill Moyers abilities and I doubt him capable of exploring it on the Journal. (I expect he will retire again after the election disappointment which is near.) I intend to carry on: How many of you will continue using your imaginations to avoid panic?

    Remember: Under the current regime and Constitution the Internet belongs to "them" so your computer can't save you until you sprout some legs and take ownership of your body and personhood.


    Fascism on auto-pilot: Why Massa Caint Read

    Carl Icahn, T. Boone Pickens, Mitt Romney, Mayor Blumberg, even Ross Perot and Bill Gates, I submit, are cultural and political illiterates. They are systems men; just the godheads of greed, poking out of the ass crack of a much larger monster. They contrast starkly with the Founding Fathers or even the robber barons in that the naked emperor, wielder of naked power, has devolved into a tapeworm, possessing only vestigial organs of self-sufficiency.

    Let’s savor these images as I pose related questions. Why were thirty somethings and younger citizens so taken with the Matrix concept? Why are business graduates (and loan paying dropouts) often so taken with the bootstrap ideologies of libertarianism? Why are there so many fools on the Moyers blog who suggest a slight tweak of the Constitution or federal statutes will solve all our problems. These questions have a systematic answer. We live within and are at the mercy of an alien organism that is now seemingly beyond human control, which appears to be self-serving in the short term, and has strategies and power to defend itself.

    Romantic libertarians have closed their senses and reasoning to the existence of this organism and are in denial. They revert to primitive ideas and myths, blaming everyone who is not striving for celebrity status. The denial extends to collateral problems like global warming and wealth disparity.

    Systems believers argue that Bigmen somewhere still control the beast, or that if citizens will vote correctly or contact their representatives, a course correction can be made. They will often assert their experience or status within the system, suggesting that they are master players of the game, and that everything will work out. Patriarchy is sometimes integral to their agenda and they may see religious conformity as one spoke in the smooth wheel of corporate citizenship and natural hierarchy.

    Matrix types have resigned themselves to “living in interesting times.” They take it as they find it, seeking freedom of expression in the interstitial spaces, and not expecting much change unless there is a power failure. Not just they, but most of us, would be helpless if practical self-sufficiency were called for. I include the libertarians clothed in Chinese made garments and eating food like substances from Walmart.

    Now that I have maligned both the supposed victors and victims, you ask, who or what else can I blame? Even the Internet has turned ugly and dangerous because of greed, sadism and commercialism. It now serves the corporations more than the resistance, and so we expect discriminating and critical behavior even from grannies and small children when they use it. Where are we when we enter cyberspace?

    Jack Martin theorizes that the reason computers are always so “user unfriendly” is because they were conceived and designed as the brain of an artificial personhood, the business corporation. Under our 14th Amendment, says the Supreme Court, corporations are special persons with rights and powers exceeding those of normal flesh and blood citizens. After about 1990 computer automation meant that they could begin to act out their self-advancing and self-preserving powers without much input from human management. The economic system was so dependent upon their speed of computation and memory that they assumed control like genius eunuchs in the idiot emperor’s court.
    I go farther than Jack to observe that this collective corporate brain is the place we visit whenever we surf the Net, and that we are infected by its invasive powers in every aspect of our existence. This would explain why political procedure and government power have now become such a fraud and sham.

    While there remain a few clowns who can shut off the grid or “starve the corporate beast” I suggest we must confront them with a Mass Quorum of People Power in order to regain consensus control of our lives and this planet. Yes, I blame corporate capitalism, with its lazy road to automation and human detritus, for the endangerment of life on this planet.
    But I do not have a prescription for a new ideal system or ideology.

    I think Empire has passed for the United States and that the World, if life is to continue here, faces a lower energy future and a decreased human population. Our biology is integral to the natural systems on Earth and science has in no way synthesized a substitute environment for us. The variety of bacteria inhabiting our bodies must feel somewhat the same way as we do in our corporate flora and fauna functions. The difference is that the corporate monster is man-made and is destroying everything that sustains us, including our culture and our minds. Isn’t it time we become deadly viruses?

    So you see now why successful people haven’t a clue. Computers do their thinking.

    Note: I want to thank Jack Martin and Coley for their help in formulating these ideas. I would be interested in hearing from readers and critics at beretco.op@gmail.com. I am a 51 year old woman who has worked mostly as an electrician and lighting technician. I recently married and am now co-director of Figgers Institute as well as enjoying my new role as a housewife here in Dallas, N.C. (It’s plenty different from New Jersey.)

    Posted by: Gladdie Victrola | August 12, 2008 10:42 AM

    Because everyone is doing it!

    GREED ALL AROUND!

    People bought houses ABOVE THEIR DREAMS;
    People bought pre-construction condos TO FLIP before they had to close;
    Mortgage brokers did not look beyond their COMMISSIONS;
    Mortgage bankers were OUT TO LUNCH;
    Mortgage Ins. Co. executives were OUT TO SPAS;
    Government officials were OUT FOR VOTES;
    MAINSTREET is OUT OF LUCK!

    No wonder Mainstreet is short on TRUST.

    RESPONSIBLE PARTIES allowing a SURPRISE FINANCIAL CRISIS REVELATION to develop & BLINDSIDING Mainstreet should GO TO JAIL! They do it in the GAME!

    Remember that movie SICKO that Michael Moore made that showed how the people of France protested on issues that the middle class have with good results. That says alot for those smart brave people!!! Of course Pres BUSH has passed laws so anyone who speaks up in the U.S. is a terrorist.Ever since the mid 70,s and steel went to Japan then deregulation happened and the middle class/poor people have losts wages,worker rights etc. etc. it has going down hill.Plus Pres REAGON screwed us and the air traffic controllers deal.Bush along with Canada and Mexico want to create the north american dollar to compete with the euro dollar.We are being forced to work for 5.00&-10.00& dollars aday to compete.Remember it was Clinton who brought in nafta and signed a free trade deal with china. Walmart made out like bandits while we lost jobs and plants to the chinese!Where was walmart started Arkansas!!!! Think about how long the democrats and republicians have screwed up this great nation.Time to look at a new party new direction to straighten out this mess.Those republician senate people held out for aweek before selling us down the river on the 700 billion bail out so they could get more pork thats all.

    I believe that the stock market is continuing to go down as the smart people get out and the stupid people finally feel enough pain to cut their losses.

    I further believe that if the Professionals would Shut Up and stay out of it that the Market would find its equilibrium.

    These jokers don’t know what to do and that scares the public. But then you would not have Warren Buffett and the Hedge Funds making fortunes while the little man is told to do nothing.

    All the professionals keep saying hold on, don't sell, while they are getting out on the peaks and today was a very good example of that. The only people who can lie more despicably then the congress are the Wall Street Slime.

    I realize the market is still sick as Warren Buffett can get good deals that are not available to the Citizen Stock Investor. I remember when this was illegal and the market was said to be fair because what was available to the richest investor was just as available to the poorest.

    So the Market is still sick and will remain so as no one wants to change it... all of Wall Street simply wants to get back to business as usual... this will cause the second crash and who will bail them out them? I am sure there are enough crooked men and women in congress who are ready to swindle the tax payer again telling him he is better off being poor and letting the rich make the same profits for a third time.

    A real home run for the good old boys but the day is coming when the money machine won't be able to keep up. I sure you professionals will know what to do. A little evil and guile and you should be able to hood wink the public, I mean after all 28 years of screwing the people should have taught you something.

    I mean really, that oil deal the US Oil Corporations and some Wall Street Banks got together on was a real smart deal, so now the Banks are in the Oil Business and why is that going to be different from what the WS Investment Banks just got away with. I’ll tell you. There is a lot more money in Oil then Mortgages because there are a lot more people to pay the high price of Oil and once the two Investment Banks who became Federal Banks corner the oil market in cahoots with the Major Giant International Oil Companies not even the Government will be able to tell them what to do. You think $4 a gallon was bad, well give them another 6 months to a year and see if you like the new price. And the plan is to do this for the next 35 years.

    Or didn’t you hear, the Arabs do not set the price of oil any more. The Banks who are controlling the Future Markets on behalf of the Oil companies now set the price behind the scenes.

    Well enough for now, I’m sure there will be plenty to commentate on especially when the market hits 2000 that is the Dow not the NASDAQ.

    Posted by: Griffin Jones.- Global Rate Cut? Pretty soon they're going to pay the wealthy class interest just for accepting more money! The problen that all the wealth and assets are logjammed in the elite coffers with no safe gambling opportunities will not be solved by giveaways. Maybe a redistribution, but not giveaways you expert idiots!

    oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


    CNBC had 'expert idiot' Steve Forbes on their show this morning. He was begging for the 'nonsense' called mark to market accounting to be dismantled. He wishes to increase the lies and sickness in accounting and the stock market.

    One honest commentator asked if someone would invest their money in a company that had no recking with reality on their balance sheet...no one answered the question....'honor dies where interest lies.'

    We have learned nothing from our bailout mess. We can see this from the debate on how to water down the mark to market accounting standards.

    Instead of restoring high financial and accounting standards, we are further relaxing them, in effect increasing the sickness that got us here.

    I am not in favor of more lies. I do NOT support doing away with mark to market

    Even with mark to market, we have all these accounting lies. Can you imagine how it will be when asset values can be assigned by the holders of those assets with no reckoning with what the 'actual market value' of those assists are?

    "Suspending mark-to-market accounting, in essence, suspends reality." -Beth Brooke, global vice chair, at Ernst & Young


    Griff. J.:
    Hyperstagflation is on the way! No jobs and worthless currency, what a party!

    Posted by: Dr.A.Khan (MBA-PhD) - Half the work of solving a problem is figuring out what it is.Most people know they are supposed to change something, but they just can’t figure out what needs changing. Identifying the issues is the first step towards a positive change.Its very hard and difficult to deal with change.Sometime change imposed on us and sometimes we we ‘ve invited change, like ending relationship or moving to new house or city or quitting job.

    ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

    NOT THAT SIMPLE...Without compulsive spending and conspicuous consumption funded by unaffordable debt, we would fail as a country.

    Sure defining the problem is half the battle. But we must accept some problems can't be fixed perfectly sometimes

    Lets say everyone becomes voluntary simplicity and frugal squirrel devotees. Who will but all the crap that America makes and sells in order to keep everyone employed and keeps China from starving so they do not go back to old ways of trying to take over the world?

    And on a more local level, if the consumer stops consuming, the companies go bust, everyone loses their jobs and his or her retirement funds will collapse.

    What about more taxes?

    More taxes = less for us to compulsively spend 'trying' to buy happiness = lower earnings for the greedy corporations = raise hell with the DOW = less cap gains tax income for the gov to squander = everyone's retirement funds sink lower and lower = even less compulsive spending since everyone is poorer...

    America has been built on debt and spending. 70% of our 'economic heath,' better termed as 'economic sickness' is based on consumer spending. When the consumer can't compulsively spend any longer our economy collapses...we are not a healthy country.

    We have built a defective model for long term population support. We can only keep on keeping on as long as the crude is free flowing and affordable by the masses.

    We must accept that we have built our world on unsustainable means - a means built artificially on fossil fuel.

    Without compulsive spending and conspicuous consumption funded by unaffordable debt, we would fail as a country.

    Witness the recent cries for Federal bankers to lower interest rates...so the stock market can go up...fueled by spending of the consumer.

    It is drug habit that Greenspan got us hooked on and we just can't get away from.

    Our economy is not based on sustainable health - it is based low interest credit to encourage compulsive spending, debt and living a life of constant consumption with a 'disposable mentality' when it comes to durable goods.

    All this consumption to artificially fuel our economy to make our retirement funds only go up contributes to more and more global warming and the depletion of our natural resources.

    Then the governments juggle the numbers to make the inflation figures seem artificially low, so everyone's retirement portfolio will make them happy so they will continue to buy and consume more...and on it goes....IT IS ALL WE KNOW and the bill is coming due soon!

    Thoreau didn't think much of those that lived beyond their means and he said so in Walden.

    "Some of you, we all know, are poor, find it hard to live, are - sometimes, as it were, gasping for breath. I have no doubt that some of you who read this book are unable to pay for all the dinners which you have actually eaten, or for the coats and shoes which are fast wearing or are already worn out, and have come to this page to spend borrowed or stolen time, robbing your creditors of an hour. It is very evident what mean and sneaking lives many of you live, for my sight has been whetted by the experience of others; always living on the limits, trying to get into business and trying to get out of debt, a very ancient slough, called by the Latin - 'Res Alienum' or 'another's brass' for some of their coins were made of brass. Living, seeking to curry favors, lying, dying, and buried by 'other's brass'; always promising to pay, promising to pay, tomorrow, and dying today insolvent." (Quote shortened)


    "A debt-based society cannot prosper and is doomed to fail..." ~ Ron Paul

    Global Rate Cut? Pretty soon they're going to pay the wealthy class interest just for accepting more money!
    The problen that all the wealth and assets are logjammed in the elite coffers with no safe gambling opportunities will not be solved by giveaways. Maybe a redistribution, but not giveaways you expert idiots!

    http://my.barackobama.com/page/invite/keatingvideo

    All of this is very disturbing to say the least. However, the YouTube presentation at the URL at the top of this post is even more disturbing. If it is true, the American people are due, not only an apology, but also protection from further abuses from those intrusted with the care of our money.

    If the above YouTube presentation isn’t true, then Senator McCain needs to be exonerated publically by all those who participated in the publishing of the video.

    The issue here is trust. We are already seeing that banks do not trust one another enough to do business with each other. If the current system is not able to be trusted enough to resolve the crisis, then we need to look at instituting a new system coupled with sufficient safeguards to keep all parties honest.

    Another thing to consider, now that we are involved in a global economy, we need a global system. Having each country devise its own policies a part from the rest of the world will no longer work. We are now in a global situation very similar to the conditions that lead to our nation switching from the Articles of Confederation to our present Constitutional system. It may be time to take “e pluribus unum” to the world.

    The issues are justice and freedom, which have economic overtones. When you have a gap between rich and poor, and little middle class, you lose democratic functioning of democratic institutions. America is in an identity crisis, and human beings are experiencing a human identity crisis. It is at this causal level that our problems must be addressed. Just shifting around the players in the game will not bring a better outcome. We need to see ourselves differently. We do not know who we are.

    Half the work of solving a problem is figuring out what it is.Most people know they are supposed to change something, but they just can’t figure out what needs changing. Identifying the issues is the first step towards a positive change.Its very hard and difficult to deal with change.Sometime change imposed on us and sometimes we we ‘ve invited change, like ending relationship or moving to new house or city or quitting job.

    Do you support the bailout package that President Bush signed into law this afternoon? Why or why not?

    No because it represented all that is wrong with US institutions. They are meaningless and costly to the little people, everyday people. The rich get away with most anything. The middle class gets taxed, fined, harassed.

    Do you trust lawmakers to practice effective stewardship over the economy?

    No, not at all, except for Dennis Kucinich.

    What actions do you suggest Americans take to try to prevent similar crises in the future?

    People should educate themselves about Maitreya's return to the world.(http://www.share-international.org) and should call for him to come forward and share his ideas as to how to proceed into the future.

    Media should be preparing the public for this event, but has failed in its duty to the public.

    The fact that major banks speculate in both regulated and unregulated energy futures trading, and hold major positions in oil and gas leases, tankers, pipelines and other energy infrastructure (generation and coal mining) was discussed on the Diane Rheim Show and Fresh Air today. Why weren't we informed earlier, before our economic reality caved in. So these are some more of the bastards deneying us clean energy while they vacuum up our labor at depressed rates. We are truly chickens in crates. (Thanks Stephen Lahanas for your definition of "commercial paper". In other words, as worthless as used toilet tissue, a dirty tissue of lies.)

    Whew! Everyone's so angry. Wait! I know...let's contact our Congresspeople. Let me tell you, folks, that unless you are absolutely lucky enough to actually talk to one of them, letters and e-mails are a JOKE! And if you are lucky enough to actually talk (which I have not been, being a mere member of the rapidly dissolving middle class, consigned to financial hell by both my Senator and Congressperson) I'm betting the backtracking rhetoric one would hear would make one's eyeballs fall out.

    The Representative from my district was distraught that he had the worst week he's ever had in Congress; he was a flip-flopper on the bailout votes last week. Them that dressed up that pig did a durn good job, cause Congress agreed to take her out for a spin. And at least HE can sleep soundly, knowing he flip-flopped the "right way" (according to him)! The rest of us are too nervous to sleep -- or to even check our 401(k) statements. I mean, who wants to know that your retirement income has gone MIA?

    For crying out loud -- what else can we do when begging, pleading and ranting fails? No one seems to be listening. Sad, very sad. Where can we go from here?

    Bailout - Part 2


    Today, with relatively little fanfare, the second phase of the bailout was launched. This phase will likely cost significantly more than the first phase (already more than $700 billion) and is just as risky. Moreover this phase for some reason, required no congressional oversight or approval, even though it wildly exceeds the funds secured last week.

    It was clear last week that a phase two was coming soon, but no one could have guessed how soon and how big it was going to be. The markets were not impressed and Wall Street icons were already talking about 'multiple trillions needed' to restore confidence.

    So what exactly was just announced ? The Federal Reserve has proposed buying up undisclosed amounts of "Commercial Paper" using money from the Treasury Department. What is Commercial Paper ? here is a definition from The Columbia Encyclopedia:

    "...commercial paper type of short-term negotiable instrument, usually an unsecured promissory note, that calls for the payment of money at a specified date. Because it is not backed by collateral, commercial paper is usually issued by major firms whose credit-rating is so good that their notes are immediately accepted for trading... "

    The overwhelming majority of companies that issue Commercial Paper are not companies like GE (as currently suggested in the media) but financial firms. Here are some key things to keep in mind:

    • Commercial Paper is an IOU, it is worthless and high risk if it is coming from companies that are unstable and have nothing else to back it up.
    • Commercial Paper represents a significant portion of the 'unregulated' financial market. "Because commercial paper maturities do not exceed 270 days and proceeds typically are used only for current transactions, the notes are exempt from registration as securities with the United States Securities and Exchange Commission." - wikipedia
    • Commercial Paper does not require collateral or assets to back them up.
    • The Free Market is rejecting these now for one reason - the fact that it is unclear whether the institutions issuing them actually have value or collateral to back them up if they should go under.
    So again, the administration has chosen to "shore up" the shakiest assets on Wall Street with little or no oversight and no limit in sight to the commitment of tax dollars. We are rescuing those parts of the market that aren't regulated at the expense of those parts of the market which are. The question then remains, will we have the resources to survive what's coming once we splurge on losses that can't be recovered - once the money is spent, it can't be refunded.

    If we want to use a gambling analogy (which seems strikingly appropriate in this instance), these actions would be like a champion poker player showing up to a week-long tournament and betting his entire stake during the first hand.

    copyright 2008

    And WHO gets to handle the 700 billion sell out of the American taxpayer?

    None other than an old crony of Paulson's from Goldman Sachs - Neel Kashkari. The plot thins......

    I heard the herd coming with furious might.

    I ran the wrong way and the herd ran me into the ground.

    I heard the herd leaving me there in my plight.

    I lay there on the ground my parts scattered all round.

    - "Abbreviated Ode To The Taxpayers"

    Of the many signs of this coming disaster I include the willingness of the financial world to accept the operations of the pretentious entities called hedge funds. These were clearly a business form designed to escape regulation, but having no relationship to hedging. The ultimate joke is that there exists in the financial world such a thing as sophisticated investors.

    to Dave 4:21PM Suggest
    WOLVES be subituted for
    fox.

    Again,how we got into this crisis & ACCOUNTABILITY are of great importance!

    The POINT is.....I am mad
    as hell that we were
    BLIND SIDED by this
    BLACKMAIL, Emergency,
    SURPRISE, Crisis
    Announcement and
    Payment in Small
    Unmarked Bills was
    Demanded or we SUFFER!

    The FBI & Justice Dept. must get involved! SORRY just don't get it!

    The DOW is below 10K & the ransom has been paid! What's next? A BLOODY EAR in the mail? The first $850 Billion was so easy there must be some left?

    Billy Bob, Florida where the DNP showed us where we stand, during the national-nomination election

    Nice payday!!!! How about U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson architect of the 700 billion bailout? As CEO of GOLDMAN SACHS PAID 37 MILLION$ IN 05 165 MILLION$ IN 06.Then he went to the Treasury got 500 million$ in GOLD SACHS stock!!! People of the U.S. we have a fox guarding the hen house!!!!!!

    Repost: Oct. 6th


    In order of importance and financial magnitude, here are the primary mechanisms of the current financial meltdown:

    1. Derivatives: Unregulated, unsanctioned gambling of principle players in the financial community, and as Warren Buffet says, they are heterogeneous transactions that are non-classifiable, that by drawing on credit, artificial money velocity, and the updraft of capital, amount to the minting of electronic currency (presently poorly understood, often based on complex computer programs, and unregulated). A longstanding similar speculation is currency exchange (“the carry trade”) and there is also a large bubble of potential debt in this sector.

    2. Hedging: Betting upon negative outcomes and their timing in order to offset unrealized increases in value. (Presently unregulated) They are especially prevalent as ancillaries to commodities trading.

    3. Credit Default Swaps: This is an insurance scheme in which primary players in the financial system guarantee the repayment of one another’s credit instruments. I suspect that they have even guaranteed the pay-off of one another’s derivatives. Credit default swaps amount to the minting of unregulated and unsanctioned money by creating renegade debt. They go far beyond customary mortgage insurance.

    4. Inflationary Dependent Mortgage Writing: Since #1, #2 and #3 are the gargantuan writing of electronic money (the largest inflationary engines ever created), they totally skew the distribution of wealth and credit, so that money value is funneled upward to fewer and fewer holders. When this reaches its ultimate potential, credit freezes up, inflation ends, and the value of everything drops. The result is the classic and inevitable inability to maintain the pyramid scheme of mortgage writing. Inflationary increases in real estate value could never have been expected to sustain such a gargantuan morass of wagering, but when prices began to moderate and fall the debacle was unveiled. A depression ostensibly initiated by stalled mortgage lending and foreclosure is actually a far larger and more dangerous business monster. (Legal but ill advised and poorly regulated) Greed far outweighed the mild effort to make low income citizens homeowners, in fact, the foreclosure and resale of property in inflationary times is profitable in itself and was only undermined by overarching speculation. Fees and commissions in a poorly regulated milieu accelerated the overextension of credit and liability. The mortgage market was maintained as an easy target for the unscrupulous because it was a little gold milling plant for the elite who hold almost all the wealth. Even had it been well managed and regulated a debt bubble would have been caused elsewhere by the speculative behavior of those holding large blocks of idle money they were desperate to wager. So, while mortgages are at the base of the debt bubble and legitimize it by the threat of general and widespread foreclosure, they do not represent a large portion of the debt bubble in this financial crisis.

    Summary

    By the turn of the 21st Century money value had been accrued into so few hands that new instruments of speculation had to be created in order to keep capital circulating. The wealthy class demanded phenomenal returns but wanted their increasing risks underwritten by the general public through the government. A political move to undermine government social supports and move to a purely laissez faire milieu was also afoot and coincided with the deregulation necessary to keep the wealth updraft operating. Derivatives are purely speculative transactions often based upon extraneous outcomes such as birthrates or weather events. Hedging is more market based and uses negative economic outcomes as a hedge against increased values. It is entirely possible that there are other classes of speculative contracting that have not yet been classified, revealed or described to the general public.

    The insuring of loans is a garden-variety procedure of modern finance. In a home mortgage the buyer is paying a fee to an insurance underwriter for protection of the mortgage holder. Insurers have been collapsed not only by defaults in mortgage portfolios, but also by bundled home mortgages, by commercial mortgages and by the innovation of insurance on the new instruments of risk described above. While the home mortgage load is estimated in the hundreds of billions, the commercial mortgage load may be much greater and the speculation load a magnitude above that. So you see, that while home mortgages are the most readily visible part, and the leading edge of this debacle, they represent only a tiny slice of the potential default pie.

    When this almost inconceivable reality is admitted it makes one wonder how a paltry bailout of 700 billion dollars can be of any help to such a polarized system of obligations. The wealthiest players hold almost all of the liquid assets as well as the debt obligations. These parties, mostly insensible corporate entities, have shown almost nil charity and common sense, but continue to demand payment from a working and commercial world they have brought to utter prostration. The world is unable to repay in a rigged game and now has lessened potential for playing due to limited assets and frozen credit. September 19, 2008 was the day the game ground to a halt and the winners began to hold the populace hostage and demand even harsher rules.

    The way out is to first admit what has happened. This rigged game has resulted in an escalating black hole of money debt. My 57 years of experience on Earth, along with reading, studying and conferring with others, leads me to believe that capitalism, once it reaches a superhuman scale, as enabled by corporate law, will always result in an unsustainable rigged game (partially because of the nature of power and because of the human tendency to cronyism and collusion) with the resultant hazards of fascism and mass murder. It was ironic that the fear of proton collision experiments at the CERN facility in Switzerland,
    that they might result in our subatomic demise, arose just as this crisis became undeniable. Maybe human consciousness, as a hedge against collective anxiety, transferred real economic fears into improbable scientific ones. No amount of mass can satisfy or negate a BLACK HOLE but can only contribute to its intensity. This is a sound and rational analogy. The more money value and debt creation we pour into the financial debacle the worse the human situation on Earth will become. We must “starve the beast” just as corporatarian politicians schemed to do to our government. Corporate and executive welfare must not only be cut off but reversed into tax and penalty extraction from the wealthy class for the use of working people and to maintain those unable to work in humble but dignified security. That is “the plan” because nothing else can work now. A Depression with safeguards for human welfare and economic reforms and reorganization is a lesser evil than the cruel faschistic alternative.

    Posted by: Jack Martin | September 29, 2008 3:44 PM

    Stephen Lahanas: This blog will show you as the co-originator of the concept Black Hole Economics. You must share credit with Figgers Institute of Stanley, N.C. An essay and analysis by Jack Martin can be found by using "Edit" on your tool bar and searching for that name below. If you do write a book please footnote the origin.

    Check out the transcript to the 60 minutes episode from Sunday night. If they had shown this before congress voted, would they have passed the bailout.

    A Look At Wall Street's Shadow Market - Oct. 5, 2008
    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/10/05/60minutes/printable4502454.shtml#

    I am mad that we got to this point & our expert leaders did not avoid such a critical crisis!

    Those few commentors attempting to explain why the 'Bail out' is necessary
    miss the point!

    It should have NEVER gotten to this point

    Those responsible for the Ship of State, failed, but act as though they are the only ones that can save the Ship!

    Implementation is next and we must all contact all govt. officials to controll how the 'bail out black-mail' is spent.

    No Toxic Paper!

    Take stock in companies that may make it, with privisos that assure the money goes to help Americans, not 'BAIL OUT'!

    Warren Buffet did not 'bail out' Wall Street. He invested in 2 companies that are leaders in their fields, & if you believe that America will come back in a yr. or ten, then you realize he bought stock backed by assest as good as they get in America. I don't have 10 yrs to wait.

    He did not buy TOXIC paper!

    This should have NOT HAPPENED! Do not follow the incompetents that ALLOWED this to develop in the first place!

    Billy Bob, Florida

    A look into Barack Obama’s might shed some light on the subject
    Barack Obama joined Trinity United Church of Christ more than 20 years ago and considered the church pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright as his mentor. Rev. Wright married Obama and his wife Michelle, baptized their two daughters and is credited by Obama for the title of his book, "The Audacity of Hope." In his sermons, Rev. Wright repeated denunciations of the U.S and blurted out statements like “The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing “God Bless America.” No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people," he said in a 2003 sermon. "God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."
    Looking at Obama’s ties to Rev. Wright, and his connections to a terrorist bomber, William Ayers, both men who would like nothing more than to destroy this country causes many people to second guess Obama’s intentions for change.
    Lets examine Obama’s connection with an accused political fixer Antoin “Tony” Rezko.
    Because Barack Obama was a dependable ally of subsidized developers in the Legislature, his friend and fund-raiser Rezko depended on him to get things done such as cosponsoring a bill in 2001 allowing developers to pocket half of the proceeds from selling state tax credits to others. Obama admitted that his decision to involve Rezko was “a bone-headed mistake.” What he failed to mention is that he has a closet full of bone-headed mistakes such as Peter Wallsten pointed out in the Los Angeles Times on
    January 24, 2008.
    “Barack Obama angered fellow Democrats in the Illinois Senate when he voted to strip millions of dollars from a child welfare office on Chicago's West Side. But Obama had a ready explanation: He goofed.

    Now comes the big question, what exactly does a community organizer do?
    One thing Barack Obama did as a community organizer was pressure banks to make bad loans. In Barack Obama’s youthful community organizing days he joined a group called ACORN. Using the Community Reinvestment Act which was designed to encourage banks to make loans to high-risk borrowers, ACORN started abusing the law by forcing banks to make hundreds of millions of dollars in 'subprime' loans to minorities with bad or no credit. Using charges of racism and threats to use CRA to block business expansions have enabled ACORN to extract hundreds of millions of dollars in loans and contributions from America’s financial institutions.
    Other things that ACORN did as community organizers were agitate for higher minimum wages, attempt to thwart school reform, try to unionize welfare recipients who are obliged to work in exchange for benefits and organize voter registration drives. In 2006 for example, their voter registration drive in Washington produced 1,800 new voters of which 1,794 names submitted were fake. The secretary of state called it the “worst case of election fraud in our state’s history.”
    If you like to know more, watch these two videos.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRmB93McZeI
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs
    Cybercorrespondent
    http://cybercorrespondent.blogspot.com

    Economics 101 - Spring Semester 2021


    Definition - Black Hole Economics:


    An economic theory loosely tied to economic stabilization or recovery based upon the premise that the infusion of massive amounts of public investment in bad debts will motivative or otherwise stimulate various undefined yet 'generally positive' market behaviors. This theory was first advocated and placed into practice by Treasury Secretary Paulson, in the Fall of 2008. Despite a nearly universal rejection in the court of public opinion, the Theory was greeted with some optimism and widespread approval amongst a bipartisan coalition of political leaders, including both presidential candidates.


    Key elements of Black Hole Economics include:

    • The need for vague and confusing success criteria.
    • The dependence upon faith in some (generally undefined) Free Market behaviors while simultaneously rejecting most other (well understood) Free Market principles.
    • Reliance on the notion that throwing immense amounts of money at a problem will work, regardless of the planning or relative merits of the approach involved.
    • The rejection of the popularly held concept of investing in assets along with debts and a rejection of the desire to take any ownership in the institutions which are receiving the funds.
    • The lack of any expectations regarding tangible outcomes of the policy approach, hence the analogy to the Cosmological phenomenon known as a 'Black Hole.' Scientists understand how matter is pulled into Black Hole but do not know where that matter ultimately goes once ingested.

    Some experts have postulated that this theory has its roots in Trickle-Down or Voodoo Economics or perhaps even Socialism (if viewed through some sort of reverse lens). However, most economists now agree that Black Hole Economics represents an entirely new school of thought and was largely responsible the Second Great Depression.


    Copyright 2008

    sorry to be daft, but can someone explain to me how the whole side of pork for the bailout entree thing works? is it that the lobbyists come in, offering a generous campaign donation in return for the addition of funds for the pet project or industry, and individual congress members are thereby persuaded to vote "yes" when they voted "no" only a few days before? and is it the individual congress members who are approached by these lobbyists that propose such amendments to the bill as "Extend cost recovery period for motor racing tracks"? And do the lobbyists for "motor racing tracks," just to take one of the stranger examples, specifically interested in this bailout plan, or are they just always there ready and waiting to try to push their agenda, no matter what congress is voting on? The corruption is obvious, but how it works is not so obvious, at least to me. I'd appreciate an explanation from anyone who understands better than I. thanks!

    On Friday, October 3, 2008 our United States Congress pretty much said to the American taxpayers “Let them eat cake.”
    I have only three questions for my U. S. Representative and Senators: Why are my tax dollars being used to bailout bad, greedy behavior on Wall Street? Was there any accountability leading up to this mess? And finally, is there any plan to prevent this from ever happening again?
    I am contacting my elected officials in Washington D.C. with these questions for the spending of $700,000,000,000.00 of our tax revenue. I expect an answer ASAP. Elections are only a month away and I can hear already the sharpening of the guillotines.

    Here are the two candidates' platforms:

    Obama: fixing the economy

    McCain: attacking Obama with a bunch of smears

    You decide who has a better chance of fixing our economy. The guy who is focused on fixing it or the guy who is focused on smearing the other guy. As President Clinton noted the other day, evidence is that most of the time Presidents try to fulfill their campaign promises.

    "Even after Congress passed a $700 billion bailout signed by President Bush, the next president will face daunting housing and credit problems, the Associated Press reported.

    "Yet instead of addressing these crises, Senator McCain’s campaign has announced that they plan to 'turn the page' on the discussion about our economy and spend the final weeks of this campaign launching Swiftboat-style attacks on me," Obama said.

    "...We're not going to let John McCain distract us, we're not going to let him hoodwink you," Obama said.

    The McCain campaign shifted gears recently, with a campaign strategist saying it will spend the last month of the election focused on criticisms of Obama's experience instead of the faltering U.S. economy, Reuters reported."

    http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Obama_McCain_trying_to_hoodwink_public_1005.html

    Do you recall reading these sacred words?

    "When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal stations to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights Governments are instituted among Men deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing such powers in such form as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

    Our current instance of government and leadership - executive branch, legislative branch and judicial branch AND our current economic system of capitalism and leadership - corporate CEOs - - have failed us.

    We must take head of the hallowed words in the Declaration of Independence and start anew.

    Ms. Coleman Jordan is absolutely correct in her analysis of the "bailout". Rich people sucking the life out poor people now blaming the poor people for the "bailout".

    These people make death look like a picnic. At least we won't have to worry about them is the afterlife, since they will all burn in Hell!

    The entire system is broken. It works for the less than 1% of the very rich. This financial implosion and fraud was planned. We still don't get it: Congress works for the corporations, not "we the people." Our checks and balances are gone, and a deep depression and a police state is right in front of us. That's what the current administration planned...all along.

    I am an American living in France since i saw with Katrina that the social contract was no longer in existence in the US. When I was growing up, my father told me that taxes are what one pays to live in civilized society. I'm glad he's no longer around to see how far wrong the US has gone in this regard. Americans now pay taxes so that the rich can live so much better than the average and so that the US can perpetrate war on nations who have no means of defense.

    I pray that China and Japan will pull the plug so that America can feel some of the pain it has wreaked on the rest of the world. Maybe then the country can get back to being the country we thought we were.

    I was very disappointed in Senator Obama's voting for the money for the Sellout to Corruption.
    It looks like we will get "More of the Same" no matter who we vote for. the only thing that will help the economy is providing the demand side of economics sufficient funds to support the supply side of economics.
    This would also solve the problem of unemployment and supply the capital for profits on investments.
    Further, the growth of the demand side would also provide funds for growing business, expanding the tax base and subsequently maintaining our nations infrastructure.

    Nobody is asking how much money these senate and house boys and girls got from the big corporations? Hey we all know that the middle class supports the poor and makes the rich man more money.We already know we are getting the short end of the stick.We always do people.Why are working? Pensions gone good paying jobs gone to China and India.It is time to make a stand people. Voting for the democrats or republicans has run the country into the ground.We need a new party to lead this one time great nation.Also do not forget corporations like FORD,GM etc. have sold the american worker out by moving plants around the world so they can pollute(NO E.P.A.) and get cheap wages.Are the auto prices coming down? These corporations own /lobby the senate and the house.I am hearing 350-400 million dollars people.

    Bailout vs. Galveston devastation after IKE:

    Yesterday afternoon before the Bill Moyers program I was listening to NPR news and they were talking about hurricane IKE and interviewing authorities down in Galveston, Texas
    and they were still looking for bodies. They believe that there are still 400 bodies buried in all the mud that is still there and it is so bad, because it stinks, there are snakes, and so much debris that it is hard for the authorities and their dogs to look for the bodies. The talked about how bad the devastation is. The reporter said how an irony that we as a country are so worry about the bailout (with a reason), but that our brothers and sisters in Galveston were without a home because this hurricane wiped out everything and left the land flat out.

    HAVE WE LOST OUR COMPASSION AND OUR SPIRIT OF HELP EVEN WITH OUR OWN PEOPLE?

    Just like Bill Moyers say:
    Watch and listen:

    Past President’s quotes:

    “If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered." ~ Thomas Jefferson

    WE ARE SEEING THESE CONSEQUENCES FOR QUITE SOMETIME ALREADY!!

    “I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies” ~ Thomas Jefferson

    OUR FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY IS ALREADY AT A MAJOR RISK OF DISSAPEARING WITH THE PASSING OF THIS BAILOUT ON WALL STREET, BIG BANKS, AND CORPORATIONS!!

    "History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and its issuance" ~ James Madison

    DIDN'T WE JUST SAW THIS HAPPENING THIS PAST WEEK?

    "It is well that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a REVOLUTION before tomorrow morning" ~ Henry Ford

    DIDN'T WE HAD A POPULIST REVOLT (AS BILL MOYERS AND GUESTS DISCUSSED TOO) THIS PAST WEEK BY CALLING, EMAILING, AND WRITING TO OUR CONGRESS AND HOW WE OPPOSED THIS BAILOUT OF WALL STREET?

    SHOULDN'T WE ALL LIFT OUR ARMS IN "PEACE" (NO VIOLENCE AT ALL) AND HIT THE STREETS OF OUR CITIES AND TOWNS FOR A DAY OR TWO AND SHOT DOWN OUR ECONOMY AND SHOW WALL STREET AND ESPECIALLY OUR GOVERNMENT THAT WE MAKE THE ECONOMY OF THIS COUNTRY, THAT WE MAKE THIS COUNTRY...I BELIEVE THAT IS OUR LAST RESORT RIGHT NOW BEFORE THEY (GOVERNMENT AND BANKS) LEAVE US IN THE STREET FOREVER!!

    WATCH AND LISTEN!!

    Thanks Fernando - headed there now. ^.^

    To an earlier blogger, Sherry,

    If you go to
    www.c-span.org you can find both lists of votes by the house as well as the Senate one. Good luck!!

    Congratulations Bill Moyers as always. I have enjoyed immensely your last 3 programs. The one with Andrew J. Bacevich who identifies three major problems facing our democracy: the crises of economy, government and militarism, and calls for a redefinition of the American way of life and I agree with him that we have to look at ourselves in the mirror and look at the way and how much we consume as well as how we have put up in a high stand our presidency and how we think that the world should live according to our standards and way of life. I do agree with him that these are the root causes of our crisis, and at the end of the program he said that the Iraq war might make us look in the mirror, and I would add that the bailout of Wall Street approved by the Congress and what is about to come yet would probably make us look in the mirror even more, if not already happening!!

    Your program with Kevin Phillips was excellent too. I agree with him that the financial sector sector is crumbling by their own bad deeds that are starting to hunt them now and that they want us to pay and our Congress has agreed on our behalf even though we didn't agree. The worst is yet to come for them and for us "recession". I agree with Mr. Phillips that our economy is definetely fragile and I believe that this bailout of Wall Street has made it even more fragile.

    Last night program was great too!! Kathleen Hall Jamieson and Brooke Gladstone are right on the dot how we see through the eyes of our media (NBC, CNN, ABC, FOX, etc., not you Mr. Moyers and guests). We need to change that or that is going to keep sending us deeper and deeper into the abyss. We are behaving, dictating, and hurting our lives and our future by following step by step what the media says and thinks. We have to change or we are going to destroy ourselves!! I also agreed with them that we now have added to the unprecedented deficit and debt with the bailout of Wall Street an these four candidates, two presidential, two vice presidential, don’t have the courage to tell us that if elected, they will change their spending and taxing plan.

    WHO DO WE VOTE NOW? WE HAVE SEEMED TO HAVE ONE PARTY NOW. THE BAILOUT WAS FAVORED BY MORE DEMOCRATS THAN REPUBLICANS. WHERE DID THE PARTY OF FDR HAVE GONE? OUR GOVERNMENT HAVE TURN THEIR EYES IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION AND COMPLETELY FORGOT ABOUT US...

    Also, THE GREAT BAILOUT DEBATE with Georgetown University's legal and finance scholar Emma Coleman Jordan was great. I agreed with her in how now many economists, media, government, and others are saying that minorities caused this financial crisis by foreclosing in their home loans and credit cards. As always in America, someone has to be blamed and someone has to pay the consequences, lets put it up on the minorities. I agree with her 100%.

    Bravo!! Mr. Moyer and Bravo!! to your guests in the last 3 programs.

    What's really funny? I just read an article from a Chinese newspaper wondering why the US is going socialist - without benefit to the people. o.0

    It gets sadder and sadder. I agree - anyone who voted yes for the sell out should be unemployed like many Americans.

    Now - where can I find a list of who voted for this cursed enemy of the people?

    I repeat: NO INCUMBENT LEFT BEHIND!

    I bet that there will be a repeat request for even more bail out funds. There will be endless corruption in the execution of the plan, both in government and the financial firms that deal with the treasury. I am with the 76% of 46,000 in the CNN poll that bailout (I) will be a failure.

    The Credit Squeeze - would not have occurred if Americans had not been trained and brought up on the banking, credit card and government marketing philosophy
    of buy now, pay later. For those of us who were brought up and taught differently, the policy was to save and then buy almost everything, except one's house. America has had a low to
    negative savings rate for a long time, under the marketing influence of businesses and banks who want to lend. Even business in some countries operate and
    expand on funds from profits rather than borrowing - Germany being one good example.
    It took a couple of years to teach one of my adult children the facts of finance, until she could see that paying 18% interest on credit card debt was foolish.
    Much better to establish a savings program and buy later.
    One problem with this approach is that government, which is profligate with its financial policy and is in deep debt, tends to inflate the currency,
    making it cheaper for the borrower to pay back with the devalued dollar, and penalizing the saver whose funds are devalued unless properly invested.
    The American way of "buy now pay later" has been carried to the extreme in this crisis. Credit is scarce and trust in banks is gone. Financial engineering
    got us into this problem with worthless loans. - Will the majority learn? I doubt it. Will business consider that endless expansion vs. steady renewal of
    profitable product lines and saving for expansion might be another model? I doubt it.

    A list of the congressmen and sentors who voted that trash in should be posted everywhere so the people can be familiar with their names. They have earned our contempt. We must bar them from being re-elected ....that includes Obama. We voted them into office to stop the Iraq war and they shrugged us off. We told them no on this bail-out and they shrugged us off. I am tired of the two party system that gives us two sides of the same coin.....stop choosing the least of two evils. Expect more and end the farce. Throw the bums out. Nothing will change whether you elect Obama or McCain.......they have their marching orders from the corporations that put them there.

    I hate making typos. In my post below, I know the word is "its", not "it's". LOL

    This bailout bill was an abomination on many levels and it's passage, once again, demonstrates that our "representatives" are anything but.

    Equally troubling was the media's complicity. Few, if any, alternative approaches were given voice. Little light was shed on the root causes of the crisis, namely the FED and decades of ill-advised government policies and deficit spending. Instead, they bought into the "class warfare" of blaming greedy Wall Street CEO's and other secondary causes. They fell victim to the armageddon-style hyperbole of Bernanke, Paulson, et al. They bought it all, hook, line, and sinker.

    Many in the media now readily admit failing to do their job in the days leading to the Iraq war. Yet they have, again, abandoned any real journalism in favor of scare tactics and spin. You would think they would have learned.

    I wonder, in the days to come, which of our losses Americans will most lament... the Free Market, or the Free Press?

    I want to say just one more thing. If this was unconstitutional (and I believe it was) then where is the Supreme Court? Pull the bank charters and give them to someone that will serve the people. And above all get competition back into our system. These buy-outs are outrageous.....

    If we are to become a socialist state, then at least give it to the people. The people will spend the money here, in this country. The result will be that corporations will then have to compete for our money rather than simply buy the politician and then ship the proceeds and jobs to some other country. Rebuild infrastructure......invest in new technologies here....and get back to becoming an industrial power. Our government did this once and can do it again. We can't build a future on Wall Street smoke and mirror games. Corporate facism is opportunist and ugly...it has no heart and leaves a trail of tears behind it's path of destruction.

    If you listen to 'real' economists - and not those with a financial interest in Wall Street, this bail out is only another step in destroying our economy. What everyone is waiting for is the collapse of the credit card companies and their need for a bail out.

    So, it seems - One country up for sale to the highest bidder. Plenty of slaves available. Contact the US government.

    Simple.. the American people resoundedly said no and the politicians refused to listen. The pundits said it was OK because we, the people, didn't comprehend/understand. What is clear is that we are a corporate facist state with no regard for the people. They have no regard for us because we continue to believe their lies. The two party system has failed us. This is not eloquent...just the fact. Vote all incumbents out of office and put in independents or libertarians......send a strong message. The last message we sent in 2006 was ignored. Where there is no honor there is no hope.

    Our Congressmen completely failed us in this matter. They listened to White House fear mongering once more and capitulated on every major point. Even modest limits on the bill were rejected, and it was made even worse in order to ram it through quickly. A bill of this scope may well have been unnecessary, but we will never know because it was forced upon us before anyone else could offer other solutions. There were many other proposals, none of which were even summarily considered. And now we, the poor and middle class will have fewer opportunities, fewer expectations of basic services and the next few decades will be all the more bleak, just to save those who spitefully use and abuse us. With both presidential candidates going along with this Wall Stree coup, I can't help but wonder if the intention is the destruction of America - by design.

    I am really disappointed in our governmental leadership in allowing this bill to pass. There were over 200 well respected economists that signed a petition explaining why this bailout would not work and should not be passed. Our leadership could have enlisted the insight of any number of those economists for an alternative plan to Paulson's plan and used it as leverage for better legislation. Did that happen? Not to my knowledge.

    What I saw on of the discussions on C-span was a bunch of people who were confused and yet remarkably un-curious about the fundamentals economic factors that lead to this crisis.

    The 700 Billion is gone.
    Let's focus on the 150 Billion the Senate added as bribes to get the bigger theft passed.
    It represents 20 YEARS of
    Healthcare for children
    that Pres. Bush (& others)
    said we could not afford.
    20 YEARS of healthcare
    stolen from needy children
    and put in the hands of
    incompetant or dishonest
    politicians & bankers.
    Remember come election day!

    When is a shareholder not a shareholder? When s/he is an American taxpayer.

    Whether or not this financial crisis was couched in the terms of "bailout" or "rescue" is irrelevant to the consequences the American taxpayers will be feeling for decades to come.

    The blatant disregard by the American government of its citizens is nowhere more evident than in this sham of a bill which gives no promise of equity to the American people who are and will be paying for it for generations to come.

    Furthermore, the dangers pointed out by Ms. Gladstone are assured of taking place: Bank of America taking over Countrywide and Wells Fargo taking over Washington Mutual flies in the face of anti-trust regulations put in place after the Great Depression and so thoroughly disbanded with "The Gipper" and his "corporate welfare" successors.

    The democratic system is so damaged and dysfunctional, and my belief in it is too.

    I was against the bail out. Now that it has passed I must "grin and bear it". Unfortunately, what we really needed and still do is a cultural bail out. Our society, our American society is continuing is long walk into the abyss. Greed, selfishness and inmense ego has finally come home to roost. Our political institutions no longer serve us the people. The media has fragmented itself into a series of "talking heads"; amplifiers for whatever version of the truth will yield the most benefits for the "parent" company and/or their friends in Washington, New York, Shangai, Dubai or elsewhere.

    Those who blame the collapse of financial institions on The Community Reinvestment Act (or CRA, Pub.L. 95-128, title VIII, 91 Stat. 1147, 12 U.S.C. § 2901 et seq.) are beneath contempt. What outrageous, vicious people those creeps are.

    I'm reading the transcript of the Oct. 3 Journal while on vacation in France, and there are so many typos and erroneous or omitted punctuation marks that I can't make sense out of many sentences. I hope that someone will take the time to compare what was said on the program, make corrections, and republish the transcript. The Web transcripts of the Journal are very important to my husband and me and, undoubtedly, to many others who sometimes miss the show on Friday night.

    Thank you *very* much, for your information, your expertise, your dedication to objectivity, your integrity, and your courage.

    Hello Mr. Moyers,

    Again, you've proven to be one of only a handful of journalists willing to address the issues rather than the spin.

    I would like you consider tackling the root causes - what I consider to be a real constitutional crisis in regards to the roles of political parties, voting standards, professional lobbying and accountability in governance...

    Bailout Blues?
    I feel shame for you Bill, I read your World of Ideas books I and II and you have not once brought up the fact you knew (I believe in 1969 or the early 70’s) that the Federal Government was 100% for the Corporation and Zip for the citizen. Where have you been for the last two weeks? Showing up last night after the bill was signed. I begged you to speak out….

    Senators don't even try to hide it and are blatant in their discus for the voter and their wishes. Representatives lie about it meaning they tell their constituents they hear what they want and then vote the way the Lobbyists tell them the Corporations want the vote to go. Hell, if the Lobbyists weren’t there the Representatives would already know how to vote.

    And the president has his head up their, well I can't go there on your web log.

    The lack of leadership at the Treasury and the Federal Reserve suits the Lobbyists who are the lap dogs of the Corporations. Both UST & FR had the authority to tell the banks that the CEO’s and CFO’s would be charged in criminal court for Extortion. They also have the authority to close the banks that will not lend and support the banks that would lend.

    You mark my words Bill Moyer, this whole charade is going to fail the people and make the rich richer then they were the first time through. You ask me why I hate the news media more then the Congress, because you’re in bed with them, protecting them. Not one news person I heard on TV, Radio, or News Paper spoke against the bail out.

    And if Warren Buffett and Jack Welch want it so bad, get them the hell up to Washington and put them in charge and pay them $1 dollar a year. No deal, Warren is only interested in Cherry Picking but Jack is just as evil. Both ought to be run out of town on a rail.

    You’re talking about the American People would be hurt and what you mean is the rich would fall out of their Ivory Towers. Go ahead let it all fail and we will survive.

    # 43 is going gang busters 22% compared to the Congress 10%... I bet it is not that high and the news media… I would not give them 1%. All three of you are charlatans and liars full of guile and averse.

    Well all this is making me sick and none of you are worth it. There are no words despicable enough to describe presidents, congress, lobbyists, news people, and most of all the american people for letting it happen and not caring enough to vote the mercenary bastards out of office and taking back the Federal Government. None of you, not one of you are worth it, your just not worth 1 minute of a good mans consideration.

    But when the second crash comes… well the wonderful thing about a free market is you can’t control it and by the time it comes we will probably be in debt to the tune of 20 Trillion dollars, so my closing suggestion is you buy a wheel-barrel because your going to need one.

    Thank you for the cogent explanation of what happened. It was indeed the bamks that started this mess by changing the ratio of debt to reserve.Had the SEC refused we would not have a crisis today.
    And yes the bill passed by the House was "lipstick on a pig" and the pig is Wall Street.
    We need FDR. Franklin knew what to do.Neither Obama nor McCain do.So America find an FDR again.All is not lost. Use you vote.

    Thank you for the cogent explanation of what happened. It was indeed the bamks that started this mess by changing the ratio of debt to reserve.Had the SEC refused we would not have a crisis today.
    And yes the bill passed by the House was "lipstick on a pig" and the pig is Wall Street.
    We need FDR. Franklin knew what to do.Neither Obama nor McCain do.So America find an FDR again.All is not lost. Use you vote.

    I would encourage everyone to read the post by TROUBLEAHEAD below. He has put into words what I have thought but afraid to write.This is our future if we do not do everything in our power to pull ourselves out of this problem.

    Allen Wrench,the intention of my comment was to share facts,not inflame. Let me address your points one by one.Debt and fractional banking has been with us since the goldsmith banks of England after the dark ages. Ron Paul has a right to express his opinion,as do you and I regardless of who is right or wrong. Nothing that Ron Paul says or does can change the system we currently have,so it is in the best interest of all to work within that system.As I said in my original post these are not "toxic" assets.They are securitized loans to Americans that are collateralized with hard assets.As far as how to value these securities goes,let me give you an example. Treasury buys a security at .40 on the dollar,that was originally 1.00, that is a 60% return on the dollars invested. If you back out a 40% default of the underlying loans (which is higher than what is now going on),you now have a 20% return on the dollars invested. This is a math problem, not gambling. If they invest 700BN,the actual cost to the taxpayer is not even close to that figure under the Paulson plan. I am afraid that American industry, even the GEs and Proctor and Gambles of America are more dependent on the credit markets than you realize. If action is not taken to stop the economic destruction,you will soon find yourself looking over the event horizon of the black hole,it will touch everyone. It has been a long time since we saw a deep recession in the US economy. A large percentage
    of Americans do not remember the last deep recession we had or stock markets that don't go up every month,it happens.As Americans we have the choice of pulling together to make this thing work, or letting it spiral down into some type of class war and watching as the whole house burns down.

    Does anyone else see the U.S. Government as a veiled Monarchy? Sure feels that way to me. My family is now entertaining the idea of leaving this country since we no longer have a voice. I never thought I would consider such an option since I do love this country. Only the paying constituents now have a voice in the U.S. Congress. Our voices have been silenced by the very people that took an oath to protect our constitutional rights.

    This is a manipulated financial collapse. Has been in the making for about 70yrs.There is part of a statement by JPMorgan in 1934 to a group of bankers.;;;People without homes will not quarrel with their leaders.This is well known among our principle men now engaged in forming an imperialism of capitalism to govern the world.;;; Well guess his mandate has come true. Started with the European Union and spread to NAFTA and now with all other so called free trade agreements between N. & S. America which undermine sovereign laws and amalgamate our financial systems even more, this is all part of globalization. It is a manipulated endeavour by various governments and corporate entities,although it seems they are one and the same anymore around the world. This is all part and parcel of the ""ONE WORLD ORDER"" I think a show on the N.American Security & Prosperity Partnership and it's numerous committees and ""who is on those committees"" will tell the story.

    Why didn't Henry Paulson tell the House and Senate to suspend the "Mark-To-Market rule" to end the credit problem before the bailout?

    Because former FDIC chairman Bill Isaac said on the Today show (10-01-08) that the "Mark to Market" rule "destroys" credit and "that this is a manufactured crisis".


    I dont think most of you bloggers understand what the effect would have been if we had failed to pass the bailout plan. No more car loans, no more car dealer jobs. Our last few factories closing for good. No more food in your stores that you can just drop by to pick up for dinner on the way home tonight, using your ATM or credit card to pay the bill. No more cool clothing for your kids to buy in the malls that are soon to be deserted of all activity. No internet purchases, no more cell phones, no tv on demand, no cash at the banks, just block-long lines of people waiting hours to get a few dollars to pay for gas to get to work, only to be told next Friday that your employer has no funds for payroll this week. No money for milk for your kids this week. Water and flour become the new national diet. Garbage pickups halted by local governments who cant make payrolls. Hospitals unable to get medications now all made overseas for the new illnesses borne from unsanitary living conditions caused by a lack of janitors who have all been laid off by building managers who are getting paid rent by the businesses that are closing at alarming rates due to cashflow shortages.

    Do any of you recall what happened to the USSR in the 90's after their national economy collapsed? (before they hit the oil boom and got ahold of a lot of our national wealth) Commodithy shortages were the norm because they had no hard cash to pay for imports of essential food and energy supplies!

    All of our country's wealth now resides in Saudi Arabia, Russia, Iran, Iraq, Venzuela, Kuwait, UAE, and China. They hold the key to our survival, as they alone now have the cash to lend back to us to fuel our engines of consumption. If we dont shore up our debt load with guarantees sufficient to induce them to invest in our debt, we will run out of cash almost overnight.

    On the bigger issue of what got us into this mess, its not greedy Wall Street Tycoons! Its our own personal greed and voracious appetites for consumer goods that we can't afford and are too lazy to work extra hard to pay for with earnings and savings. SAVINGS, what's that? In a myopic rush to buy more stuff at lower prices, we allowed our domestic consumer production industries to be shut down and sent overseas where cheaper labor would produce cheaper goods for us to buy on credit and shove into our fat bellies, leaving our country with nothing to produce in trade for oil imports, except consumer debt paper!

    We are left with one last skill that we can perform better than all others on this earth. Greedy teet sucking consumption. Obesity is our hallmark, and gluttony our mantra. These are all traits of an empire in the last throws of a death march.

    The coming years are bound to reveal the true moral values underpinning the "me first" society we have created. Gun toting RV drivers murdering others to get the last fill up at the local gas station. Robbers invading the elderly in their homes, killing indiscriminately to get the next meal. MAD MAX is us!

    Mayhem at the supermarkets as the last loaf of bread is sold with hundreds told there is no more, inciting food shortage riots erupting in every major city.

    These are normal human reactions to the shock of cash starvation, and this is destined to arrive all the more quickly without a shoring up of the consumer debt industry that we euphemistically refer to as the banking industry. We have long ago gutted our savings accounts and now live hand to mouth nationwide, on borrowed wealth that is no longer ours to collect.

    God save us from what is undoubtedly ahead. And George Bush told us after 9/11 to go out and shop at the Malls! Reminds me of Marie Antoinette...Let them eat cake! The French for whom we have recently expressed such disdain over Iraq lived this first hand in the late 1700's. We are destined to repeat that history out of a total addiction to the scourge of immediate gratification and an unparalleled centralization of wealth in the hands of our "ruling class".

    The American flag should be flown at half mast to grieve the loss of a "government of the people, by the people, for the people"

    "Four score and seven years ago our fore fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

    Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation, so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

    But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate—we can not consecrate—we can not hallow—this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

    As many of you know this bailout has been cast as a battle between taxpayers ( who selfishly want to keep their money ) and more "in the know" experts and media elites who understand the importance of banking to the overall economy.

    So let me take a moment to snip that Wall St. to Main St. connection that people keep talking about. It all comes down to understanding that the past is not the future, anymore than rolling a die yesterday will affect its roll tomorrow.

    Suppose someone offered a real estate deal to you. And they said to you: "I have lost money in the past in other deals. Now you must make up that money for me before I feel confident enough to invest with you on a new deal."

    If someone came to you with reasoning like that, wouldn't you say "Isn't there some way I can just put my money in the new deal ? For even if I should have to put up 100% of the money for this new deal, that is still better than paying for your losses and then giving you even more money so that you can put up your half of the deal"

    But people who think this way are called "unsophisticated" because they do not understand the interconnectedness of the economy, and clogged markets, etc.

    Changing skippers on a sunken ship is the last of my concerns. I think building a new ship, a new government while we still can, is the issue that is lacking and all that we must certainly do. Bail out a sunken ship? It is time to build anew!

    =
    MJA

    =
    MJA

    BushCo stole the cookie jar while we helplessly watched and left nothing not even crumbs to feed our poor hungry children. They stole our future, the bad guys took it all.

    =
    MJA

    Posted by: Jerry Brown: There are times when I really admire this show. Bill, you often find really interesting people to interview. However, whenever you get on your soapbox about your personal notions of social justice, I am always disappointed. If you or any of the admirers of this show have not watched Charlie Rose' interview with Warren Buffet, I recommend that you do. http://www.charlierose.com/guests/warren-buffett

    Market economics may not be perfect and it does require regulation to insure its safety. But, it is far less dangerous than the well-intended machinations of an intellectual elite. Example - Karl Marx had nothing but high-minded intentions.

    With the exception of the pork that got added this week, I support the economic rescue plan. In fact, I think Secretary Paulson's three-page plan would have been fine. Ordinarily, I would not favor giving such power to one person. But, this was a truly exceptional crisis.

    I don't trust our lawmakers to deal with issues like this. Most of them do not have adequate intelligence or expertise.

    Protection against a future crisis is not really so much a matter of regulation as having an institution that’s held accountable for understanding the dangers and sounding the alarm for NEW problems. Theoretically, that’s what Treasury and the Fed should do. But, their responsibility in this area gets muddled because of the existence of other agencies like the SEC. I would compare this new function to the CDC because it should exist to protect us from ourselves and from the natural behavior of the economy rather than to police “evil” businesses.

    *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

    Your right about communism JB.

    If one is selfless, communism's works fine. It is only when selfishness is injected that communism fails miserably.

    If we were ants or bees communism would work great. When the ideal of communism comes to be applied in real life, the perfect theory becomes corrupted with the ego of the imperfect leaders.

    You are wrong about the rest of your theory JB

    You see you like capitalism, but only when it is convenient. Then you turn to socialism to bail out the excess of capitalism, instead of letting capitalism bail itself out.

    The bailout encourages such excesses and does nothing to change bad behavior as it rewards wrong behavior with taxpayer money.

    And just as communism fails due to ego and greed, so will your plan fail you have outlined above JB.

    What does curtail bad behavior is punishment JB. The wrong doers go to jail, lose their businesses, go bankrupt, their trophy wives leave them, their yachts are seized.

    Sure there is pain in all this JB. But as Taoists tell us, "Fleas come with the dog." So we must accept that whenever there are excesses there will be a 'hang over' and some pain to recover.

    But in this case, the taxpayer is punished through pain and the evil doers in business and Wall Street learn no lesson of pain and are instead rewarded from their drunken orgy of greed and selfishness...great plan JB.

    This week with Gladstone, Jamieson and Jordan was one of the best.
    Start tackling the real problems, and cut through the "fog" of political hype.
    Now I hear on newscasts the word "socialism". When most Americans hear that word they see red. Well, let me tell you that as an American living overseas there is "social democracy" in most European countries and it works. Jordan made mention of the "fabulous quality of life" that may be only in America. But that fabulous life style is only for 10% or less who can afford it now-a-days. Where is that 700 billion, along with the pork, coming from? More than likely from foreign instituions. Be interesting to see where the experts will spend this money and what the real trickle down will be to Main Street.

    Posted by: Ted Michael Morgan Well, Senator Obama turns out to be just another Democrat. He still has my vote, I suppoe, but Mr. Nader has my respect.

    *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

    Whether we vote for A or vote for B there is no 'right' answer for us.

    A and B are cut from the same cloth.

    A and B are one in the same.

    Did A or B tell us the truth about the financial reamout?

    I wrote Nader long ago about forming a Citizens Union...never a reply from him. I don't think he is serious, he is just another power hungry presidential wannabe.

    But by all means, feel free to worship Nader as your political deity.

    As Ron Paul tell us...a debt-based society cannot prosper and is doomed to fail C.Messer.

    Sure, there may be 'some value' in those toxic assets. But as a taxpayer I don't want to be involved in a toxic bond fund and be forced to gamble on 'how toxic' the poison is C.Messer.

    Let the specialists that deal in gambling and trading in toxic waste on Wall Street clean up their own toxic house.

    Let the crap shooters of Wall Street keep rolling the dice 'with their own money' and not the taxpayers money.

    Let Wall Street come to terms with being responsible for Wall Street. And if Wall Street needs to pay the price, then let them downsize, go bankrupt, stop the compulsive gambling or whatever else they need to do to accept responsibility for their actions.

    Once they accept responsibility, they can at least be at a semblance peace with the outcome of their actions and recover a modicum of honor in the process.


    Statement of Congressman Ron Paul
    United States House of Representatives
    Statement on HR 1424

    October 3, 2008

    Madame Speaker, only in Washington could a bill demonstrably worse than its predecessor be brought back for another vote and actually expect to gain votes. That this bailout was initially defeated was a welcome surprise, but the power-brokers in Washington and on Wall Street could not allow that defeat to be permanent. It was most unfortunate that this monstrosity of a bill, loaded up with even more pork, was able to pass.

    The Federal Reserve has already injected hundreds of billions of dollars into US and world credit markets. The adjusted monetary base is up sharply, bank reserves have exploded, and the national debt is up almost half a trillion dollars over the past two weeks. Yet, we are still told that after all this intervention, all this inflation, that we still need an additional $700 billion bailout, otherwise the credit markets will seize and the economy will collapse. This is the same excuse that preceded previous bailouts, and undoubtedly we will hear it again in the future after this bailout fails.

    One of the most dangerous effects of this bailout is the incredibly elevated risk of moral hazard in the future. The worst performing financial services firms, even those who have been taken over by the government or have filed for bankruptcy, will find all of their poor decision-making rewarded. What incentive do Wall Street firms or any other large concerns have to make sound financial decisions, now that they see the federal government bailing out private companies to the tune of trillions of dollars? As Congress did with the legislation authorizing the Fannie and Freddie bailout, it proposes a solution that exacerbates and encourages the problematic behavior that led to this crisis in the first place
    .
    With deposit insurance increasing to $250,000 and banks able to set their reserves to zero, we will undoubtedly see future increases in unsound lending. No one in our society seems to understand that wealth is not created by government fiat, is not created by banks, and is not created through the manipulation of interest rates and provision of easy credit. A debt-based society cannot prosper and is doomed to fail, as debts must either be defaulted on or repaid, neither resolution of which presents this country with a pleasant view of the future. True wealth can only come about through savings, the deferral of present consumption in order to provide for a higher level of future consumption. Instead, our government through its own behavior and through its policies encourages us to live beyond our means, reducing existing capital and mortgaging our future to pay for present consumption.

    The money for this bailout does not just materialize out of thin air. The entire burden will be borne by the taxpayers, not now, because that is politically unacceptable, but in the future. This bailout will be paid for through the issuance of debt which we can only hope will be purchased by foreign creditors. The interest payments on that debt, which already take up a sizeable portion of federal expenditures, will rise, and our children and grandchildren will be burdened with increased taxes in order to pay that increased debt.

    As usual, Congress has show itself to be reactive rather than proactive. For years, many people have been warning about the housing bubble and the inevitable bust. Congress ignored the impending storm, and responded to this crisis with a poorly thought-out piece of legislation that will only further harm the economy. We ought to be ashamed.

    http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2008/cr100308h.htm

    Well, Senator Obama turns out to be just another Democrat. He still has my vote, I suppoe, but Mr. Nader has my respect.

    I have been reading most of these comments since very early this a.m. Will someone help me in my research of the meaning of "treason"? Obviously, one of the underpinnings of our system is wealth creation, but it is now concentrated in the hands of the top 3%-5% as everyone is aware. We have a serious problem in this country, which has evolved over the last 30 years, regarding behavior and wealth as it relates to control/power. Yes, we are presently fighting a "War on Terror", but it is apparent that we have more dangerous terroist dressed in business suites. I think the term treason fits in these events.

    The Senate voted overwhelmingly to pass a bad bailout bill. Nothing to kick-start the real economy, except tax breaks for business. No help for homeowners.. No mandate for taxpayers to get shares in the banks that are bailed out. Virtual unchecked discretion for the Treasury Secretary to dispense $700 billion. It’s a good morning to be one of Hank Paulson’s friends on Wall Street.

    Faced with an angry revolt of Americans opposed to bailing out the folks who got us in this mess, Congress decided to call in reinforcements—the banking and business lobby. Add in business tax credits, increase FDIC guarantees to appeal to small business and small banks, and call out the contributors.

    And, of course, fan hysteria to frighten the public: “We must act to keep the banks working or mortgages will dry up, credit cards will be shut down, small businesses won’t be able to operate.”

    There are two major problems with this argument.

    First, the need to pass something does not require passing something lousy. Backed by most sensible economists, George Soros called for legislation that would provide sound banks with capital, give taxpayers a preferred equity position and sort out the banks that can be saved from those that should be closed. Paulson’s stated plan of purchasing some of the toxic trash from the banks is likely to be more costly and less effective.

    Second, while keeping finance going is necessary to a growing economy, it is not sufficient. We’re headed into a severe downturn. Consumers, no longer able to tap the value of their homes to add to stagnant wages, are tightening their belts. States and localities face sharp cuts. The coming recession will weaken the banks further with rising defaults on credit cards, auto and consumer loans. You can’t save a ship by bailing out the master’s quarters when the hull is taking on water.

    The real work of getting our economy back on track will be left to the next president and the next Congress.

    It is obvious that politicians play a game with very real stakes. No one can agrue that. Maybe it is time that, not republicans or democrats or any other party, but we the people realize that the ultimate responsibility lies upon our shoulders. We choose to elect our government and we allow the mess to continue while blaming everyone and everything, except ourselves for the demise of the country we all profess to love.

    I have traded mortgage securities for the last 20yrs. In the two weeks that this has been in the news cycle,Bill Gross and Warren Buffet are the only two I have heard that knew what were talking about. Let me clear up some misconceptions.These are not "toxic assets" Treasury is buying,they are currently illiquid and hard to value,due to the higher than expected number of defaults by the underlying home loans. This is not a "bailout", it is more like a large bond fund that we have a huge investment in.This is not a case of "greedy wall street bankers" taking advantage of mainstreet, investment firms sold the securities to investors who did or should have done there homework on what they were buying. The community reivestment act was directly responsible for SOME of the problems at FNMA and FHLMC. Executive compensation and "golden parachutes" had very little to do with the problem,the size of the problem is much larger than all the compensation packages combined.Mark to market accounting and transparency were not the cause of the problem. I have heard people argue that they are for more transparency and easing mark to market accounting, you have to pick one or the other, you can't have both.This is not a "manufactured" crisis, the monday after Lehman was allowed to fail, the commercial paper markets did not function.I saw it and lived it, there was real panick from money market and mutual funds facing massive redemptions.
    Treasury is not buying
    "worthless" paper,any bond that has underlying assets
    has some value. Mortgage securities can't be traded on an exchange like stocks,
    they are much more diverse and complex,requiring much more analysis than that. This problem started with the consumer that bought too much house and used his home equity like an ATM and goes all the way down to the end investor that bought mortgage backed securities based only on the rating agencies recommendations. There is one area where regulation would have stopped this before it got this large and that is federal oversight and licensing of mortgage brokers and appraisers. We are already in the worst recession of my life. To pull ourselves out of this, we will have to work together. We can't let this break down into some kind of class warfare because everyone is looking for someone to blame.

    May I recommend viewing the Frontline Flashback (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/story/2008/10/flashback.html) where it discusses the bail out by our so-called government of American investors in Mexico? So - we do a bail out of Wall street approximately every 10 years?

    Reading through this blog underscores my outrage at the wreckless lack of financial oversight this country has been blighted with since the deregulatory "trickle-down-economics" days of that idiot Ronald Regan. A folksy fella who could really sell soap. Well,the foxes were welcomed into the hen house and old Joe Public was sold a 20 Mule Team box of baloney. The nation reaps what the neocon republicans have sown, and this is one big fat scarey chicken that has finally come home to roost. We can lay it all at the feet of those good, God fearing, bible thumping, "right thinking" zelots - those Joe Macarthy clones - that have bamboozled this country in to a nice deep hole. George Bush's presidency has been the perfect combination of arrogance and idiocy, ideaology over rationality,and
    fantasy over reality. The age of republican misrule began with an idiot and finishes with an idiot.
    The bailout is a bail out for the rich. Just one last perk from the "CEO President" to the folks who matter most.

    I would dearly love to see more interviews with Ms Coleman. Finally common sense and honesty - despite the fact she tells us things we really don't want to hear.

    Hmmm - it seems from reading here I am not the only one upset. David - the bail out won't help the common person keep his job. That's just part of the scam to get us to blindly accept it. There is NOTHING in it to guarantee jobs - or homes - or anything for the people.

    The Bail Out will/maybe/perhaps/they hope/possibly help Wall Street by giving the average American their bad debt. Hopefully/possibly/maybe/perhaps it might trickle down to the middle class. Hopefully/possibly/maybe/perhaps/if we're lucky all those Big Finance companies will loan each other money again. But it won't help the thousands who are already facing foreclosure and struggling to make ends meet. Hopefully/possibly/maybe/perhaps/if we're lucky the bankers might give their doorman a tip and help improve his situation....... or maybe that next yacht the CEO buys will help the servants who bring him/her his drinks. Or maybe ......... yeah - you get the idea.

    What we need is a petition and People's agreement. No matter our party, no matter our politics, no matter our income - we need to agree that it's time we had people in what we jokingly refer to as a government that listened and feared the people. Not spent their time creating false blame and fear mongering amongst us to keep us from losing focus on who betrayed us.

    Perhaps a consensus - that no matter who you choose to vote for - if they voted for the bail-out - we vote them out. Actually, could be done almost cost free. A petition - copied and posted on-line and in every town/city bulletin board. Maybe it's time the politicians remembered what happens when the People get fed up with their lies/deceit/betrayal/lobbying/pork barrel games that sacrifice us on their altars to mammon.

    You know what truly scares me? In the midst of this - they are pushing to make the Corporations bigger! You'd think the first thing they'd do is common sense - split the banking from the mortgage from the stocks and make them go smaller so this doesn't happen again.

    Let those that have be the first to give up the cash. The top 400 people in America who made over 1 trillion dollars by playing us for suckers could easily pay the 700 billion and not even blink.

    I am disgusted that my own so-called representative sold us out for his own pet pork project! Maybe it's time we showed them what the American people are really made of. I think I actually see a glimmer of hope for the country - but it lies in our own communities and towns.

    WOW! Thank you Professor Emma Coleman Jordan. You are a guiding light in this darkness of deceit and greed.

    I often turn on Bill Moyers on Friday evenings to get a dose of truth about the world -- something I normally find only on the internet. Sometimes Moyers delivers. Tonight he did not.

    Where to start? First, Gladstone and Jamieson. All these two seemed focused on is that the administration should have marketed the plan differently from the beginning and it would have passed no problem. Gladstone even went so far as to get indignant that some of the Representatives initially appeared to actually listen to what their constituents were saying! I don't know the exact quote, but it was something like, "And now we have law making by email and phone calls, instead of just letting these legislators do what we pay them to do."

    Um, hello, Brooke? This is supposed to be a democracy. Granted, it isn't anymore, it's all a facade, but it's supposed to be one. Lawmakers are supposed to represent "we the people." That means that they should listen to us! This idea that they know what's good for us -- talk about cowtowing to authority with no questions asked!

    The other thing that was just mind boggling was that these two women seemed surprised that even though the media and all the leaders, president and head congress people and Paulson, etc., were threatening the 1930s on us, people were still opposed.

    Jamieson "framed" the whole problem as this: "Well, a serious financial crisis came up this week, and to solve it, we had to pass this bailout bill. But the administration was stupid and called it a bailout bill instead of a rescue plan. And then people mistakenly thought they were just going to bail out some fat cats and stick it to everyone else. And people especially thought that because, unfortunately, these people had "been less than fully disclosive" before. And now that they're really telling the truth, no one's believing them. This is the problem when you have an administration that has lied in the past; when it really gets serious (as if war and civil rights weren't serious issues before) the people won't believe you. In other words, they cried wolf before, but now the wolf is really at the door and no one's listening!"

    The one thing I really noticed this week is that 1) the media really ratchted up the fear talk after the first no vote and 2) these stories always have the theme of, "well, if this thing is passed we'll be ok." Who do you mean by "we"? that's the question that's never asked. "We" means the elite. "We" means Wall Street. "We" means the affluent in their cush lives. "We" even might include people like Ms. Jamieson and Brooke Gladstone. But it's not me, it's not the average person, and it's not anyone who doesn't want to be a feudal serf, because that's where they've got us and they just took us another 100 miles deeper this week.

    OK, finally, a word about Coleman. Her heart is in the right place and she said a few good things. I agree, don't blame minorities, and yes, the consolidation of these banks is worrisome.

    But she's missing the big picture. She seems to think at the end that this could be a good thing because it will be back to government overseeing things and making sure this doesn't happen.

    Sounds great. But just who is the government? The government is Wall Street. Period. They run the country, plain and simple, they control who gets elected, what laws get made, etc. This week's eventual vote proved it. As long as Wall Street controls the government, they control the oversight too, baby! Until the government is totally overhauled and taken back by the people, and I frankly don't see how the heck that's going to happen, government "intervention" isn't going to do us any good. We have to get away from just saying, well, government should do this or that or shouldn't do this or that. Until we have a system where people can get elected to represent people and they actually do that, it's a lost cause. Government caused this problem and they just made it bigger today. I'm not opposed to government, I just want it to be "we the people" not six thieves on Wall Street stealing from everybody, which is what we have now.

    One more thing about the show: I will say that Bill Moyers' two-minute dissertation on the bailout bill got much closer to the point than anything else on tonight's show.

    Finally, I wanted to say that it's a relief to hear real people's thoughts and opinions on this forum. As it turns out, they're much more well thought out than these talking heads.

    Trying to be helpful here, with info for those who feel the bailout is just wrong.

    Yes, deregulated, ethically corrupt finance professionals and officials at all levels got very rich by doing imprudent things, often deliberately, which predictably resulted in huge damage to the rest of us. Yes, they should be sanctioned. Appropriate regulatory structures should be developed to prevent a repetition, and taught to future generations. (And yes, unsophisticated poorer people borrowed imprudently, and inevitably lost. They should be better advised, guided, and educated. Punishing them would simply work to further disrupt things, and teach them nothing.)

    Now, my dears, as to "bailing them out." Jeez, these leaders of ours are lousy communicators. Bailing out the system is bailing us out! The hell with "them." We need the fix for our economy. The bail out is to keep our business and jobs going, for God's sake, not just keeping ATMs open and car loans flowing.

    A talk radio caller the other day spoke of living from one paycheck to the next. She wanted none of her tax money to bail "them" out. What she didn't get, and nobody seemed able to explain, was that without the "bailout," within a very few weeks she will probably be one of the millions who stop getting paychecks.

    What's so hard about explaining that? Forget Wall Street. Without a big fix, in a few weeks all sorts of small and middle-sized businesses start faltering and failing, and all sorts of people start losing their paychecks and savings.

    That's the best I can do to figure it out. I might be wrong, but I don't think so. Yeah, lets go back to the ethically corrupt profiteers and fix their little red wagons but good, but in the meantime lets not cut off our nose to spite our face.

    When we complain to our representatives and other "leaders," we should try to explain this to them, instead of continuing to urge them to act tough but stupid. We should try to explain it to each other. The bailout is so we can continue getting paychecks come Christmas time, not to pay off the elite.
    Sincerely,

    Catch 22; that's some catch that catch 22.
    We seem to be trapped in the no-win situation on every issue. The gloom and doom president has again tricked the nation into supporting his blatant "steal from the poor and give to the rich". All the self -righteous Christians shout "praise the mighty leader; He has saved us again". Our gutless congress has rolled over and plays dead. What is most unfortunate is that evil prevails and the innocent pay the price.

    I have enjoyed learning that others share my total disillusionment and abject despair. For decades I trust most of us have realized that “we the people” have enjoyed little say in the course our government chooses. However, the bailout bill is far more blatant and in your face than anything that has come before. The shroud has fallen and exposed that our beloved Constitution and the government of our forefathers exists in name and historically only.
    It is quite evident that the “checks and balances” skillfully written into the framework of our government have been appealed without our knowledge and ceased to exist in our present form of “demockery”. Our voices, those of the constituents, have been completely muted on both sides of the Congressional aisle by the never-ending resources of the “financial system’s” lobbying machine. We now have a government solely comprised of the few. The congressmen, executive branch puppets, Wall Street talking heads and news agencies’ diatribe speak of how they worry about the impact on Main Street, but they truly only worry about their own retirements and keeping the game going. All else exists merely for our muse.
    Our government repeatedly proves their extreme myopia in every endeavor no matter how massive or painful their decision may be to the Nation. This bailout will prove once again to help the same few on the backs of the many. There will be once again the new Halliburtons and others who profit from the pain and death of the masses with this harried action. The economic demise set into action by self indulgence will continue despite and aided by this ill conceived “piece of work” legislation. Their shortsightedness has unfortunately overlooked how few of us still exist or will endure to bear their burden.
    Who among us will step forward and point out that Sec. Paulson, former CEO of Goldman Sachs, might represent a disturbing conflict of interest in becoming the Czar to rule over this enormous no strings attached social welfare program. Wait; did I not realize that congressional oversight was written into in the legislation? Unfortunately, congressional would be the operative word here. Once again this brings the point that incrimination lies on both sides for who does the “party of the people” candidate ask to give him sage advice on how to negotiate the financial crisis but Rubin.
    There must be hundreds of thousands of like-minded, country loving Americans out there feeling totally disenfranchised from our present form of government and wanting someone to be our standard bearer to take us back to our roots. There would be millions of concerned irate citizens if only we could get anything but propaganda from the financial elite’s news media. It is becoming all too apparent that sadly and slowly we march toward the seven-letter “F” word as our form of government.
    This entire dog and pony show of an election process that has consumed over two years of undivided attention represents nothing other than a concocted diversion away from the realization of the plague that grips this Nation. When the election is done we will be left with some rhetoric and a lot of smoke and mirrors, but in the end it will remain business as usual for we have two parties in name only and for our own enjoyment. Let them argue the incidental issues while Liberty stealthily exits the building. Once again we will have chosen and voted for greed to continue it’s rule.

    For it to be suggested that we all are against this bailout plan (and we are)because it 'wasn't framed well' in the first place is entirely insulting and wrong. What we saw right away, in the midst of shock and awe, was a tsar in the making from the financial sector who would have no oversight, couldn't even be sued being given in precipate fashion freedom to manipulate - not a blank check but a fixed amount (good and big) of taxpayers money without any guarantees that it would cure the disease. Somehow everyone in the public servant arena, which I thought was another name for government, has forgotten whom they serve. Everyone, except for a few truly noble souls. And I don't believe for ONE SECOND that statement that the public suddenly turned around and started asking for the bailout - they didn't. They researched alternative plans which looked better and they pleaded with their congresspeople to do something - SOMETHING ELSE. What was the rush? Only that they had to do it quickly before we got the tar and feathers to Washington. And watch out you folk on the big screen (or little like mine) when you start in with the 'Let them eat cake' slights on the American people. It most certainly isn't over, and the American public have NOT given their consent to this highway robbery.

    Thank you, Mr. Moyers; you showed us the two sides of the coin - the one we give in good faith to the Treasury and just look what they have done with it.

    Black Friday

    Mr. Moyers and Dr. Jordan:

    You preceded and followed the clips of Laura Ingraham, Neil Cavuto, and Larry Ludlow by stating that they were blaming the poor and minorities. Please re-read the transcript. These three statements attribute blame not to the recipients of the loans, but to the public policy makers. Are you aware of your error? You obviously saw the clips beforehand. Just because someone uses the word "minorities" does not mean he or she is blaming minorities. It sounds more like you both have an overactive tendency to label dissenting opinions as "racist."

    In addition, a more important lesson for you is that just because a public policy is aimed at helping the poor and minorities does not mean that it will. Case in point: Joe Biden said, "we should be allowing bankruptcy courts to be able to re-adjust not just the interest rate you're paying on your mortgage to be able to stay in your home, but be able to adjust the principal that you owe, the principal that you owe." This statement has barely been covered by anyone in the MSM. It is a radical intrusion of government into our lives and a slap in the face of personal responsibility. On a larger scale, it would make the current housing market problems seem like nothing. In fact, the whole notion of a “market” would go right out the window if Obama and Biden step in to perpetuate the idea that money grows on trees and that you can have anything you want right now. Forget those old-fashioned notions of hard work and saving. “Change we can believe in” means believing in government before all else. In fact, there is nothing that is MORE harmful and demeaning to the poor and minorities than to paint responsibility as “racist” and to paint dependence on government as “hope.”

    The truth hurts, but the truth will set you free. So, freedom is not free. Meaning: the cost of freedom is the knowledge of the truth: with freedom comes responsibility and the possibility that a choice is the wrong choice. Anyone who truly cares about the poor and minorities would focus on helping others become wise, responsible decision makers, not helpless dependents. Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

    AIG's former owner, Hank Greenberg, was pushed out after being investigated by Spitzer (who is now conveniently absent). Now that the investigation is as good as dead and forgotten, he's now interested in buying AIG back -- at this new reduced price -- and, of course, after he's gotten us taxpayers to pony up a few billion! Let's hear it for our new Trillionaire Back-to-Work Plan. We're really helping to reduce the unemployment rate now!

    AIG's former owner, Hank Greenberg, was pushed out after being investigated by Spitzer (who is now conveniently absent). Now that the investigation is as good as dead and forgotten, he's now interested in buying AIG back -- at this new reduced price -- and, of course, after he's gotten us taxpayers to pony up a few billion! Let's hear it for our new Trillionaire Back-to-Work Plan. We're really helping to reduce the unemployment rate now!

    As usual a very interesting and informative show with knowledgeable guests. And also, as usual, there are the expected comments of seriously deluded people (Bert, Citizen K, Uncle Brian, judithod, Ron) who blame the usual suspects ( the Clintons, evil 'socialist' government (this time in the form of Freddie Mac & Fannie Mae),etc) and simply refuse to see the evident truth that the so-called 'free market' seriously screwed up (with the help of Bush & McCain (whose former economic adviser Phil Gramm helped bring deregulation along) and who now rush to bail out their rich friends.) It would have been interesting, though, to hear something about other plans to alleviate the current crisis. There are other ideas around that could be more effective and less costly for the tax payer.

    Economic theory only works in good times.
    It was developed by people just took Newtonian Physics theory and converted to Economics with main premise that every one is rational. This has been discredited but Economists have incentive to not rock the boat when they make 6 figure salaries.

    Most of the current problems were created by Nobel winning Physics professors who created theory that was suppose to make risk obsolete. Totally discredited now.


    Current Economic system only works on going from one bubble to another.

    What next? Municipalities only get work done by borrowing because the populace does not pay enough taxes. So corporations do the work, banks keep lending. the debt keeps growing. this is the credit market that is frozen. Idea is that in some distant future, these governments will be able to pay back their debt. Not going to happen.

    Joining the lavishing of thanks on Bill and Ms. Coleman Jordan. She has combined sweet reason with penetrating factual accuracy. I daresay I see things in the same way, but have no productive outlet for the vision.

    I crave a productive application of these insights. I am an oldish guy with a background in public health, ethnic studies, and cultural evolution (not to mention the bases of human nature). Other than that and a few related competencies, I am detained by a few infirmities, and by social isolation in the poverty belt.

    With congenial people around me, I can do a number of worthwhile things; without them, I rather fester. Thence to the point: can anybody in the vicinity of Fresno, CA latch on to me?

    I have not been netted into the web for several years. I lack a circle of contacts. I am not deeply established in this community's professional networks. (I am not much of a self-starter.) Do you know someone who might reach out to me, for the purpose of following up on insights of the sort brought by Emma Coleman Jordan?

    I don't know the mechanics. Should I post my davyxo@gmail.com here, or should the blogmaster remove that for my safety? I will try to follow subsequent comments here, but I tend to lose the blog after a day or two. If given fairly explicit directions, I can follow them to another site or whatever.
    Sincerely,
    davy B

    Ms. Jordan was brilliant! Many thanks to both Bill and his guest.. Ms. Jordan mentioned 2 by-products of the buyout - the 1st had to do with maintaining bank accounts of up to 200,000.00 and the significance of paying attention to what banks do with that money - I missed the explanation.. what was it? The 2nd was the new existance of such large banking firms as Bank of America, having taken over CountryWide and the future ramifications.

    I agree with some of the ideas presented by Prof. Jordan, but was disappointed by her lack of commentary on how our monetary policy aided/abetted the current financial crisis. She did mention that Greenspan kept cutting interest rates (thus causing inflation and the housing bubble), but I wish she would have questioned the Fed's authority to cut rates in the first place, as well as the Fed's authority to loan currency into existence. If these powers were taken away from the Fed, and an asset backed currency was substituted for our unbacked dollars, I very much doubt that the housing or derivatives bubbles would have occurred.

    Do you support the bailout package that President Bush signed into law this afternoon?

    No, of course not.

    Why or why not?

    It does not solve the credit to those who need it.

    Do you trust lawmakers to practice effective stewardship over the economy? No, not at all.

    What actions do you suggest Americans take to try to prevent similar crises in the future?

    Enforce regulations and suppress greed. Elect Ralph Nader president or Bob Bar or just about anyone but the jerks running for the two big parties.

    One last comment: I just received an email from my sister in NY who works for a bank. Everyone there was offered $100 bonus if they'd call and encourage the passing of the bail out.

    Money talks............ 0.0

    Thank you for a wonderful show with amazing viewpoints.
    And no, I don't want the bailout.... it's pure robbery. This counrty has become a joke. I have never been so vocal on an issue until now. People are waking up!

    What do you think? “Where there is power there is no Justice”!
    Do you support the bailout package that President Bush signed into law this afternoon?
    No, I do not.
    Why not? In A Letter to the House of Representatives I had stated:
    On Thursday the House of Representatives is planning to consider a revised
    version of the $700 billion Wall Street Bailout Plan. Before voting on
    this measure, I, as your voting constituent, encourage you to reject The
    Main Street Rescue Plan. The cost to the American taxpayers is a lot.

    Millions of Americans like me have lost substantial funds, and the
    Congress and Senate did nothing. We are deeply concerned about providing
    federal money for a “Wall Street bailout”. To be ask to make additional
    sacrifice is not justified. The institution were selling bonds when they
    knew they could not meet the interest payment. I believe such a practices
    are fraudulent!
    The American public demands Congress to take action, to stop it.
    These are the response from two Senators, “While that provision is a far way from a guarantee or even
    assurances that such recovery legislation...” and “You should know that Congress has significantly
    improved the original proposal ...” They voted for the approval of the plan even though
    9 out of 10 Americans rejected the plan!

    Do you trust lawmakers to practice effective stewardship over the economy? No, I do not!
    The reasons were stated in the letter.
    What actions do you suggest Americans take to try to prevent similar crises in the future?
    To solve any crises I believe the CONSTITUTION should be AMENDED.
    THE CONSTITUTION SHOULD EMPOWER THE PEOPLE to PARTICIPATE in
    “THE PROCESS OF POWER” by being able to:
    “EXPRESS THEIR WILL ON ALL ISSUES”.

    I continue to wonder why no one asks what took Paulson so long to act. Why did he wait until we had a crisis? Surely he knew of the situation several years ago. Lenders were already failing 12 months ago. He did not call for action until we stood at the edge of the precipice. No matter who you want to blame for how we got here, the people on watch now were asleep at the wheel. .... unless you take the stand that they consciously waited in order to wield their power.

    If we want to save our planet while promoting freedom and fairness we must start with one basic principle:
    Tax Waste, Not Work.
    This is a principle of Earthrights Democracy also known as Geonomics or Geo-Greenism. Let us privatize our work and socialize our natural resources. In this way we will conserve AND prosper.

    Jack - what they meant to say was the lobbyists and financial Institutions Offered them more money and better jobs after they got voted out.

    In my area - which is the main way I can base what is happening with the average person - more and more people are coming out in anger at what the politicians did.

    Tch - what is done is done. I have my seeds and garden plot for when they start food rationing. The barter system lives and the poor will just say hello to the middle class as they are driven into poverty.

    Big Money talks - the People pay for it. 'Nuff Said by me. *sighs*

    Really appreciated Emma Coleman Jordan. Please have her on again soon. Very educational.

    CONGRESSPERSONS STATED THAT THEIR CALLS "FOR" AND "AGAINST" WERE MUCH CLOSER AFTER THE REVISIONS... I DON'T SEE THAT BASED ON ALL THESE COMMENTS.

    If we want to save our planet while promoting freedom and fairness we must start with one basic principle:
    Tax Waste, Not Work.
    This is a principle of Earthrights Democracy also known as Geonomics or Geo-Greenism. Let us privatize our work and socialize our natural resources. In this way we will conserve AND prosper.

    Bert: Bill couldn't find any one from the other side. They're all hiding and broke.

    Mr. Moyers,

    I have been paying close attention to this race and the economic condition of our country. I have been glued to programs such as yours (60 Minutes, Meet the Press, Face the Nation, Charlie Rose, etc.)for the pass several weeks trying to get the best information on this bailout and how it will effect most of America and tonight you did what no other has. You brought in a someone that you could have a real dialogue with, Professor Emma Coleman Jordan.

    You had the real questions and, I felt, she was giving real responses to these questions that most people were asking but not getting any answers to by the other news reports (media). Questions such as what's going to happen now that this $700B has been approved; how will the bottom 97% benefit from this bail out; why the scare tactis and rush to push this legislation through. These questions have never been asked in the general media.

    My hat is off to the both of you. Prof. Jordan formulated her responses so clearly, a layment, like me, would be able to understand some of the issues of this bailout. I eagerly await your next commentary on this issue because it is far from over. I think that this is the first installment for more money to come.

    Young of Baltimore

    Carter warned us and lost the election for being honest - Reagan told us to go buy our goodies. Clinton passed NAFTA sending jobs over-seas, and in a time of Crisis - Bush told us to go to Disneyland. McCain and others fought hard to eliminate regulations because Wall Street said they needed to be "free".

    Well - they're free. Now let them be free to pick up themselves by their own bootstraps - not by taking my last penny. Watch your FICA rise taking more of your paycheck to pay for this 'freedom' Wall Street wanted so desperately.

    I don't buy anything if I don't have the cash to pay for it. I don't own a credit card. My car is 18 years old and yet still gets 48 mpg. A local business owner drives a HUMMER - in a town that is only 4k population and 3 miles from one edge to the other. That business owner is all for the bailout.

    Business' has trouble borrowing money to make payroll? Guess what - if you have to borrow to make payroll every month - you're doing something wrong. Maybe that Hummer should have stayed on the car lot and the employees paychecks came first.

    Has Moyers ever considered having guests who do not share ultra liberal viewpoint? Or would he be incapable of defending his intellectually sloppy positions?

    Dear Americans:
    I am writing to you from Akron, Ohio. Today, in my city Addle Polk, 90, shot herself when the eviction squad arrived. How is it possible that in this Christian nation under the administration that came to power on the platform of family values this 90 year old woman shots herself out of fear of eviction?
    All those who voted for this government should search their souls for anwser because you are personally co-responsible for the policies that led this human being to such despair!

    The whole economy has been running on greedy Americans buying oversize things they don't really need, and can't afford, with credit (including housing) promoted by a white house that lacks vision and integrity. It is very unfortunate that they have been duped again by this president and his staff who let the credit market run wild and has promoted consumption like there is no tomorrow. Do you really believe this presidents “rush job”, just like the last one, is part of a well thought out plan?. Prepare to be duped again!
    It’s merely a band aid until the jackal can get congressional ink on it, then run out the back door with his pals (assets intact with bailout) and let the next administration and taxpayers to deal with the mess that resurfaces in six months. Congress feels they must pass the bill, because to do otherwise, and things go to hell, their political careers are on the line. Also, you must ask yourself this, who has a larger stake in the market outcome them or us?, they have a lot further to fall. They are using all the scare tactic tools in their box - your 401k is at stake, there won’t be any payroll, your job is in jeopardy, all designed to drum up public support.

    For generations, Americans have been herded by their leaders, marketers, and creditors to buy now and pay later. It has always amazed me how people just automatically assume life should have a monthly payment attached to it, trading their freedom for indentured servitude, so as to have it now. As a person who doesn’t believe in being in debt to anyone at anytime, the thought that someone could, or would, buy a house, car, vacation, toys, etc. with no equity on their behalf seems obscene. This is the way of unrestricted free market capitalists, take the money and run, until it all goes bad, and then they want to tap the very people whose backs they are standing on in the first place!. It’s the hard route to pay cash, not only do you have to wait for your biscuit, but you must deal with people in debt up to their eyeballs looking down on you, judging you by what you don’t own. I waited for years, watching home prices being bid out my reach with artificial prices bolstered by creditors “free money” to nothing down customers, before I bought. That’s ok, I take great comfort knowing I’m my own master. I believe the credit industry refers to cash payers of my kind as deadbeats. Who are the deadbeats now?, it sure isn’t the person with cash in hand.

    The way people live life these days buried in insurmountable debt, appearing to have nice things in life, but instead, two paychecks away from loosing it all, has been a feast for the wealthy and privileged. They need these people wearing the yoke of debt to feed their non productive lifestyle. Meanwhile, the average productive person lives a life full of fear and stress always peering around the corner waiting for the other shoe to drop. There needs to be a complete reorganization of the way Americans think about work, consumption, energy, environment, and debt. This is why I cannot support the bailout even though a lot of good people would suffer. From the ashes perhaps a new system of relative wealth parity and respect will emerge. I emphasize respect because when was the last time you felt your contribution at work was truly appreciated, benefited society, helped your neighbor?. Unrestrained capitalism doesn’t care. Period. I just hope when the economic carnage is over, people will stop and wonder if their lifestyle of artificial props and self deception has been the correct path.

    It is not the taxpayers responsibility to step in at the eleventh hour and save this train wreck. The people who foisted these policies upon us need to fully own them and be held accountable, not aided by a congressional patch that allows them to fade away in the background while other people are being put out on the street. We need to let the effects of unregulated capitalism run its course; let those who worship the market without producing any real tangible product live by their free market creed and reap its consequences. Our spineless president deserves to wear the resultant bag of dung around his neck when he leaves Washington in three months.

    There are times when I really admire this show. Bill, you often find really interesting people to interview. However, whenever you get on your soapbox about your personal notions of social justice, I am always disappointed. If you or any of the admirers of this show have not watched Charlie Rose' interview with Warren Buffet, I recommend that you do. http://www.charlierose.com/guests/warren-buffett


    Market economics may not be perfect and it does require regulation to insure its safety. But, it is far less dangerous than the well-intended machinations of an intellectual elite. Example - Karl Marx had nothing but high-minded intentions.

    With the exception of the pork that got added this week, I support the economic rescue plan. In fact, I think Secretary Paulson's three-page plan would have been fine. Ordinarily, I would not favor giving such power to one person. But, this was a truly exceptional crisis.

    I don't trust our lawmakers to deal with issues like this. Most of them do not have adequate intelligence or expertise.

    Protection against a future crisis is not really so much a matter of regulation as having an institution that’s held accountable for understanding the dangers and sounding the alarm for NEW problems. Theoretically, that’s what Treasury and the Fed should do. But, their responsibility in this area gets muddled because of the existence of other agencies like the SEC. I would compare this new function to the CDC because it should exist to protect us from ourselves and from the natural behavior of the economy rather than to police “evil” businesses.

    Anything Bush is eager to sign (did I notice NO signing statement?) because he thinks it's great............ truly means it's good for the rich and the middle income are screwed.

    I can't wait to see the long list of pardons Bush issues come January - and we'll watch all those 'Big Shots' go happily to the corporations they just helped. I'm sure Paulson and the others will be offered nice bonuses for their hard work this week.

    For those who blame the poor who couldn't afford the payments. Lets face it - they were offered what seemed something to good to be true. Which as we all know - means it is.

    In my area we saw over the past few years this scenario:

    The rich purchased as many houses as they could at twice or three times the value. IE: the value in LA or Portland - not the value in a tiny economically depressed town in the outback of Oregon. Every thing they purchased was heavily mortgaged. One couple making about 300K a year bought 7 houses alone. Normally costing around 50k before these people showed up - prices jumped to 100 - 300k. All were to be sold at a tidy profit or rented out at LA/Portland prices.

    Guess what - average income in my area.......... $40k for 2 person wage earning family of 4. My former landlord from Florida had the home I lived in - which was in deep disrepair - mortgaged 6 x for a total of 450k. The house was worth 11k as it stood simply because of the lot it was on. Local banks refused loans to those who couldn't afford them. These loans 'out of towners' were getting were being given by the now bailed out Corp. So Yeah......... our town knew what was happening long before Wall Street got their welfare.

    The radical ideologists of free markets will blame the minorities and poor for the crisis because they are unable to admit that their ideology is bankrupt. They are willing to drag us again and again through these catastrophies in the name of their "beliefs." It's like with global warmning, the denial of the obvious because of the inability to admit that they were WRONG!!!! It's like with the old Soviet ideologs. They still belive that Communism is the best system in the world!

    I am skeptical about the suggestion that “public” opinion dramatically shifted following the House of Representatives rejection on Monday and the market’s response to the rejection. It didn’t seem to change dramatically from my perspective. The rhetoric changed dramatically! The talking points morphed, suddenly Wall St. receded in emphasis and Main St. emerged as the foci, but did public opinion actually shift? I heard one Senator received 91 thousand calls with 85 thousand against — and that after the House rejection.

    Once again an extremely biased report by Moyers.

    There was absolutely no mention of collusion between legislators with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

    There was also no mention about voter fraud with falsified SSN's, names and addresses with ACORN's voter registration drives. Heck yes they should be thrown out.

    There also was no mention that in Florida the Dems did not want to allow vote recounts outside of their stronghold precincts. Heck yes the recount should have been thrown out.

    Anyone sucker enough not to read the fine print really does deserve what they get. This does not condone preditory loan brokers, or the bonuses based on cooked books.

    Former FDIC chairman Bill Isaac said on the Today show (10-01-08) that the "Mark to Market" rule "destroys" credit and "that this is a manufactured crisis".

    Suspend Mark-To-Market rule Now!

    Henry Paulson could have told the House and Senate to suspend the "Mark-To-Market rule" and end the credit problem before the bailout.

    Missing from your discussion today was exposure of the root causes to this problem to help avoid recurrence. You need to discuss the roles of Carter, Clinton, Dodd, Franks, Obama, etc. and those that tried to prevent it, like Bush and McCain.

    Government officials are once again allowing Enron like criminals to once again steal from the American people.

    You can't ignore the facts. Risky mortgages were administered by HUD via Fannie and Freddie to "underserved populations." According to a HUD news release, here are the mortgages dispensed by HUD/Fannie and Freddie in 2005 alone: $431 billion for low- and moderate-income loans, $154 billion for special affordable loans, and $388 billion for underserved area loans. Jordan says "ideas matter," while she manages to ignore facts.

    Warren Buffet is like a slave owner who's taking decisive action to protect the source of his wealth, the slaves.

    Regarding the earlier guest that thinks Buffet is God....so the bailout must be OK.

    Buffet wants his stocks to keep going up. So of course he is for supporting Wall Street at the expense of the financial reamout of the taxpayer.

    Buffet says his kids will have a better life than he and their kids will have a better life their parents and on and on in perpetuity.

    Maybe that is true for a billionaire, but not for the average Joe or Jane.

    Have you ever known a rich man eagerly take losses on their investments to help out the taxpayer from being further buried in debt?

    Did Buffet ever tell America one word about the sick state of affairs with our unsustainable, consumption and greed driven economy?

    As I told you earlier...'Honor dies where interest lies.'

    Simply, the elite control the superior, the superior exploit the affluent, the affluent devalue the common peasant, the common peasant fears the untouchable. Our capitalist system that we have been indoctrinated into since our youth, has created a vulgar competition that is painfully addictive! I am more uncomfortable with this country at the age of 52 than ever before.

    THANK YOU PROFESSOR EMMA COLEMAN JORDAN, I DON'T KNOW IF I GAVE YOU THE CORRECT TITLE AS I ONLY SAW THE LAST PART OF YOUR DISCUSSION WITH BILL MOYERS. I WHOLEHEARTEDKY AGREE WITH YOUR COMMENTARY AND I WROTE SOME SIMILIAR THINGS TO MY SENATOR DURING THIS BAIL-OUT SITUATION, I HAD ALSO INQUIRED ABOUT TWO YEARS AGO, WHO IS TRULY MINDING THE STORE AS IT WAS OBVIOUS THE BUBBLE WOULD SOON BREAK.. THE BUSHITES WERE HOPING IT WOULD BREAK LONG AFTER THEY WERE GONE...TRUTH HAS A WAY OF COMING TO THE FOREFRONT WHEN YOU LEAST EXPECT IT! HOW AN I GET A TRANSCRIPT OR DVD OF THIS COMPLETE OCTOBER3, 2008 "BILL MOYERS JOURNAL.?

    Wow! Where was Ms. Jordan when this SURPRISE, EMERGENCY, REVELATION, that demanded $700 Billion in UNMARKED BILLS was sprung on Mainstream?
    Clearly missed by 'The Media".

    I have been commenting to & reading in blogs most of what Ms. Jordan said tonight.

    I have a BA in Business Mgt. and am not an expert in Economics, or Finance, but many of 'us' understand the points raised by Ms. Jordan, which leads one to ask why the FED, SEC, Treasury & Congress were 'blind sided' by such a serious crisis!

    K.H.Jamison wanted to discuss what the horses were doing out of the barn without realizing someone left the doors open, and closing them now is to late. She did not solve the issue of how the top officials, charged with protecting the Ship of State, were so incompetent!

    The next step is to hold the FED, SEC, Treasury & all in Congress that supported the first DEMAND BAILOUT ACCOUNTABLE & that means they must GO! Today!

    Billy Bob, Florida, where voters do not remember Obama agreed to deny out vote!

    Simply, the elite control the superior, the superior exploit the affluent, the affluent devalue the common peasant, the common peasant fears the untouchable. Our capitalist system that we have been indoctrinated into since our youth, has created a vulgar competition that is painfully addictive! I am more uncomfortable with this country at the age of 52 than ever before.

    Thank you Prof. Jordan and thank you
    Mr. Moyers! Wonderful, insightful,
    informative, courageous presentation and journalism.

    WoW, is she available for me to vote for, i am white 50’ish and male, I have not heard such honesty and truth.. I like Bills show and watch when I can on PBS, KLRU Austin..

    My thanks to Bill, the Journal and Emma Coleman Jordan, where have you been, thank you.

    Bill, you are my replacement voice for a passing journalist, I miss his wit and wisdom, “Tim Russert” you would take it to them all, and get the answers we need, we miss you.

    God Speed to you and comfort to your Family.

    Why didn't you ask her about ACORN, which was a major cause of the financial crisis by pushing the administration of Clinton to loosen the lending guidelines under the guise of 'minority' redlining. Yet you didn't have the guts to put the hard questions forward and instead spoke the liberal party line of not questioning the real problems.

    A message to Emma Coleman Jordan: Thank you for your intelligent discussion with Bill Moyers tonight. You are my hero!

    Why, oh why, can’t they see,
    Can’t they see what’s bothering me?
    Fighting and bickering amongst us all,
    Only to watch a great nation fall.

    Politicians have led us down these streets,
    Giving special interests all their treats.
    The media places our beliefs on trial,
    While ratings are good and Wolf has a smile.

    Liberals and Neocons willing to be used,
    Pointing their fingers at only the accused.
    Is greed and hatred our driving force?
    Will trust and unity be our only recourse?

    United we stand, divided we fall,
    From my perspective, we’ve all missed the call.

    SeeDeaf (2008)

    Why are there no economists? These are serious economic issues. However, the discussion is lead by the uninformed.

    We the people a.k.a. tax payer that support the poor and make the rich man richer just made them way richer and us middle class/poor people go broke forever. Not one word about making those ceos or banks accountable or the people who were responsible!!!

    Well, well, well, I feel sorry for the next guy whose is elected to be president. HUGE deficits, two wars, People on both sides of the political spectrum will still disagree/hate/ each other because of their political views.(I wish Obama and McCain would knock off the "bringing all people together", because thats HorseShit!)

    I don't support the bailout as it was passed. Our government and the CEO's on Wall Street are responsible for this crisis. Speculation and lack of regulation has produces this mess and get goes way back to the Reagan era. What was left out of this bill is the people, foreclosure bailout. The measure should have included judges ability to bring mortgages back down to fair market value of the homes and insisting that banks neogiate. I've been through foreclosure not all banks will work with you. They just want the money. Our government continues to fail the people.

    Would you still call America a democracy...or are we a socialized democracy?

    so·cial·ism (ssh-lzm)
    n.
    1. Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.
    2. The stage in Marxist-Leninist theory intermediate between capitalism and communism, in which collective ownership of the economy under the dictatorship of the proletariat has not yet been successfully achieved.

    The bailout, more appropriately terms 'reamout', was rushed through the political machine with bribes of pork and threats of martial law and complete economic collapse if it was not approved.

    We have learned nothing from our bailout mess. We can see this from the debate on how to water down the 'mark to market' accounting standards. Instead of restoring high financial and accounting standards we are further relaxing them, in effect increasing the sickness that got us here.

    Even with mark to market, we have all these accounting lies. Can you imagine how it will be when asset values can be assigned by the holders of those assets with no reckoning with what the 'actual market value' of those assists are?

    What was the excuse for saddling the taxpayer with hundreds of billions of dollars in new debt? Well, the little guy has created too much debt, has lived beyond his or her means and can't pay their bills. So we need the bailout, so the little guy can borrow more money, continue to live beyond their means and create more debt that they can't pay?

    Sounds like the bailout, is more of a Ponzi scheme.

    Our economy is not based on sustainable health - it is based low interest credit to encourage compulsive spending, debt and living a life of constant consumption with a 'disposable mentality' when it comes to durable goods.

    This seems to be a case of honor dies where the interest lies.

    Typo - should read *2008*. Yes - I'm that upset to see my beloved country destroyed. :s

    Anything that impacts 96% of the American People and takes money out of their pockets should be voted on by the People. This crisis has been predicted for over 20 years.

    It's Black Friday, Oct 3, 2006 - the day America died by the politicians sacrificing the People to support Wall Street Slave Traders.

    Bush - 'fait accompli'. Osama Bin Laden said he would destroy America from within, and Bush and the politicians walked up and headed it's destruction.

    RIP America - I think I'll look into moving to another country so I don't have to watch the death throes. :(

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