BRANCACCIO:
Speaking of economic indicators, here's one. A strong indicator of the health of a country is the status of it's women. Look at Iraq. We all saw that women voted in big numbers in this week's elections. But overall, the indicators are not all that good. Zainab Salbi has been working to change that. She's an Iraqi-American and founder and President of Women for Women International. A group that helps women overcome the horrors of war across the world. Zainab Salbi, welcome to NOW.
ZAINAB SALBI:
Thank you.
BRANCACCIO:
Iraqis, Americans, the world want to know, now that the elections are done, is the situation in Iraq coming together to form a state that really works? How is watching the status of women in that country a good indicator of this?
ZAINAB SALBI:
Well women are like the bell weather in a society. If you look at Iraq right after the war, the first kidnapping incidents that happened right after the war is actually against women. They were trafficked, and they were kidnapped, and raped, and the violence increased immediately.
Now, a lot of groups start paying attention to that. Human Rights Watch, actually, was one of the few who reported that. Women for Women International reported that. And there was no action whatsoever. There was absolutely silence to that phenomenon. Now, eventually, men started getting kidnapped. Children getting kidnapped. And all foreigners, as we know it, are getting kidnapped. And this kidnapping business in Iraq is one of the most flourishing business and it's increasing. Now, this is a bad indicator. And in the last few months, particularly since about September of last year, women have been assassinated. And assassination of women became very targeted and very strategic.
Educated women. Working women. Women who are out spoken. Women who kept their old lifestyle. Kept on driving cars. Kept on wearing their western clothing. They were all assassinated one by one. Reporters, professors, pharmacists, doctors, activists. Again, they all have the same profile. The messaging here is for women to go home. 'Women, we don't want to see you in the streets.' And so far, Iraqi women are being very resilient about it. So far, they're insisting they go out and they have a voice. So their participation in the election was, actually, very courageous. Very courageous.
BRANCACCIO:
If we are to accept this notion that to understand how healthy a society is, we should look at the women. What do you see when you talk to women?
ZAINAB SALBI:
I see two things. On the one hand, I see women being very determined and actually unified in what they're asking for from the future.
BRANCACCIO:
By the way, you've done this systematically, right?
ZAINAB SALBI:
Absolutely. We, Women for Women International, just finished a survey of a thousand women in Basra, Mosul, and Baghdad. All women 94 percent of the women we surveyed they said they want to protect their legal rights. That this is very important thing for them.
Eighty-seven percent of the women we surveyed say they want to make sure that they vote in a constitutional in the final draft of the Constitution. And then that protects their rights. 80 percent of the women we surveyed said that they want to make sure that women are represented in local and national councils. And about 89 percent, they said they were disappointed in the limitation of women's participation since the end of the war.
So it tells you a lot. It tells you-- I mean, they had a lot of complaints about security, and access to water, and housing, and economic opportunities, and education.
BRANCACCIO:
I mean, fundamental visceral stuff, oh, surely.
ZAINAB SALBI:
They -- it's-- there were complaints, complaints, complaints. But then when you ask them about the future and what they want to get from their future participation in the country. They were very clear and determined about what they wanted.
BRANCACCIO:
What surprised you the most from the accounts from the conversations that you saw as your organization went door to door talking to women?
ZAINAB SALBI:
When you ask Iraqis, whether it's men or women or children, 'what is the solution to this insecurity right now?' The first thing they answer is that we want jobs. Everyone wants a normal sense of home. A job, three meals a day, a roof,sending their kids to school. You have phenomenon in Iraq in which you see adults who are literate, but their children who are illiterate.
And so people want their children to go to school. And I think, in a way, that was a turning point in how Iraqi lost their public support to the American occupation. And because a lot of then expected their life to be better over night. So there's a sense of over promise. That America came and everything is going to be good. Over expectations. And there was very limited delivery in that time period.
And so you do see a turn a 180 degrees turn between how people perceived the occupation from a positive way to a negative way. And I think most of it because their lives have not only not improved, it's went worse. I mean, in Baghdad you have two hours of electricity at the moment. This can't-- I mean, if it happens in America, we will see riots on the street. It is not reasonable.
The electricity impacts the economic of the house. It-- the way you live, the way you cook, the way you shop, the way you eat, the way you do your laundry. Everything. And so there was no sense of normalcy in their lives. What we're seeing also in practice is that women are being pushed. I mean it is dangerous as a woman to go and walk in Baghdad streets right now. Last time I was there, I was covered. It was the first time in my life to cover in Iraq and I--
BRANCACCIO:
Why'd you do that? Why'd you cover yourself?
ZAINAB SALBI:
I was absolutely scared. A lot of my friends were killed and kidnapped. One of them was a pharmacist who had a Christian guy was her business partner which is very noble-- normal in Iraq. She's a divorcee. She has a-- two children. This is a profile of a very normal Iraqi woman, right? She got kidnapped in the middle of a busy, crowded street. She disappeared for ten days and at the end of ten days, they dropped her and her business partner, with a head scarf in her-- in her head. And a bullet in her head.
The fact that she was killed in a head scarf. Something that she never wore before says a lot about the direction that we are facing in Iraq.
So you do have women determined. And you do have-- the street reality is very scary.
BRANCACCIO:
What about you? What do you want for Iraq?
ZAINAB SALBI:
I think, personally, I think, succeeding in Iraq would mean reaching and grabbing the hearts and minds of people. And that is delivering very tangible outcomes-- mostly economic outcomes. Iraqis were very optimistic right after the war. I mean, people were just happy that, for the first time in their lives, they can speak. There is freedom. There was this there were my first trip to Iraq-- everyone was running after me. And they were saying, "Please tell Mr. Bush thank you for liberating us from Saddam. And please tell Mr. Bush that we want electricity. And we want jobs. And we want a normal life." You know? So it was that dichotomy--
BRANCACCIO:
So you last went back-- I guess, this last October--
ZAINAB SALBI:
Right.
BRANCACCIO:
The mood was different.
ZAINAB SALBI:
Very different. No one now dare say I am pro the occupation or anything like that. But also no one says it was better before in Saddam's time. They said it was bad before. And it is bad now. And we should not be given the option between two bads.
BRANCACCIO:
Zainab, you looked at some of your data, as well. And I was struck with when all is said and done, pretty pervasive optimism that you found among these women. What explains that?
ZAINAB SALBI:
Ninety percent of the women we surveyed said that they were very optimistic about the future. Now when you're asked to define that optimism or what does it mean-- well, they had very clear about-- in terms of their representation in the government. They wanted more economic opportunities. They wanted housing. They wanted education. But there is optimism. And I argue that it is that optimism that we need to grab onto. And hold onto. And capture. This time succeed in capturing the hearts and the minds of the women. As well as the whole, you know, society. But the women are a very solid door into the society. Women need to be really essential part of the new Iraq. This whole election and women's participation in the election would not be successful if women are not in the Constitutional drafting committee. If we fail to get women, and if we fail to protect women's rights, we will lose Iraq. And if I am to predict the signs, as it is right now, it is not going in the right direction. It is going into a more conservative, religious society. So we really need to grab it. And we need to make sure that that doesn't happen in Iraq because
BRANCACCIO:
So that be the guide for us looking into the Iraqi situation going forward? Is to watch that Constitutional committee and see what happens?
ZAINAB SALBI:
That is the most critical thing now in Iraq. If we lose the Constitution, we lose Iraq, basically. And so I would want to make sure that women are truly represented in the new Iraq. Not for women's sake only. Although, women deserve it on their own merit. But for the larger society's sake. To ensure economic, political, religious, educational access and freedom in Iraq.
BRANCACCIO:
Zainab, are you gone back to Iraq?
ZAINAB SALBI:
I hope so, in March, yes.
BRANCACCIO:
In March?
ZAINAB SALBI:
Yes.
BRANCACCIO:
Looking forward to it, or--
ZAINAB SALBI:
It's-- I tell you, I work in wars-- oh, for the last decade. I lived in the Iran Iraq War and this is the most dangerous place to be at. And I actually am scared every time I go to Iraq. It is-- every time you leave the house, and it's not only me. Anybody that... all the people that I know. It's-- it's a mourning period. It's people kiss you in a good-bye as if they're not going to see you again.
A lot of my family, for example, they stopped working. They did not send their kids to school this year. Because they're afraid of the kidnapping and the insecurities. So it's a very tense situation. But there's still the optimism and the hope.
BRANCACCIO:
Well, Zainab Salbi, Women for Women International, thank you very much.
ZAINAB SALBI:
It was my pleasure, David. Thank you.
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