>> THE UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA JUST NAMED US THE MOST INFLUENTIAL THINK TANK IN THE WORLD.

THAT PROBABLY PUTS YOU IN RAREFIED AIR.

>> WHY DO YOU THINK THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION BOARD CHOSE YOU?

>> BECAUSE I'M JUST THAT GOOD!

[♪♪] >> I'M BONNIE ERBE WELCOME TO TO THE CONTRARY.

THIS WEEK I'M HERE AT THE CONSERVATIVE THINK TANK THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION.

AND I'M CONTINUING OUR SERIES WITH WOMEN THOUGHT LEADERS.

HERE WITH PRESIDENT KAY COLES JAMES.

WHO HAS BEEN A REGULAR PANELIST ON OUR SHOW FOR MANY YEARS.

WELCOME, KAY, AND BIG TIME CONGRATULATIONS.

>> WELL, THANK YOU.

>> DOES THIS MAKE YOU ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL WOMEN IN POLITICS RUNNING THIS MAJOR FOUNDATION?

>> I'M TOLD THAT THAT MIGHT IN FACT BE THE CASE.

I THINK THAT WHEN YOU LEAD THE NATION'S MOST IMPORTANT CONSERVATIVE PUBLIC POLICY THINK TANK AND THE UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA JUST NAMED US THE MOST INFLUENTIAL THINK TANK IN THE WORLD, THAT PROBABLY PUTS YOU IN RAREFIED AIR.

>> NOW, WHY DO YOU THINK THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION BOARD CHOSE YOU?

>> BECAUSE I'M JUST THAT GOOD!

WELL, YOU KNOW -- >> I MEAN, OF COURSE, THAT'S THE MAIN REASON.

BUT WAS THERE AN EFFORT ON THEIR PART TO REACH OUT TO WOMEN AND PEOPLE OF COLOR?

>> IF YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE BOARD THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION THAT IS NOT IN THEIR DNA.

TRULY, THEY WERE LOOKING FOR SOMEONE WITH EXPERTISE IN PUBLIC POLICY FOR SOMEONE WHO KNEW HOW TO RUN AND MANAGE THINGS.

FOR SOMEONE WHO APPRECIATED THE HERITAGE CULTURE.

AND IT WAS SORT OF LIKE CINDERELLA BECAUSE I WAS ACTUALLY LEADING THE SEARCH FOR THAT PERSON.

AND -- TRYING -- >> AND FOUND YOURSELF.

>> TRYING ON THE GLASS SLIPPER AND SOMEONE TURNED AND SAID, OH, KAY, WOULD YOU MIND TRYING ON THE GLASS SLIPPER?

AND IT FIT.

>> YOU AND FORMER VP CHENEY.

>> I DID A FULL DICK CHENEY.

>> I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT, THOUGH, BONNIE, WE WANT TO RECOGNIZE THE SIGNIFICANCE AND THE IMPORTANCE FOR MINORITIES AND FOR WOMEN, BUT ALSO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US AS WOMEN TO RECOGNIZE THAT WE CAN GET THESE THINGS BASED ON OUR MERIT AND TALENT AND TRULY, TRULY WITH THIS ORGANIZATION IT WAS AN AFTER THOUGHT.

AND I CAN REMEMBER HAVING DINNER WITH SOME AND AFTER THE SELECTION WAS MADE AND THEY WENT... OH, MY WORD, SHE IS A WOMAN AND SHE'S BLACK.

AND I SAID THANK YOU FOR NOTICING.

>> NOW, TELL ME, FOR OUR VIEWERS, THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION, I THINK FROM PEOPLE WHO DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND WASHINGTON POLITICS MIGHT BE THOUGHT OF AS TOTALLY IN TUNE WITH THE REPUBLICAN PARTY'S PHILOSOPHY.

BUT YOU ARE NOT?

>> WELL, NO, WE'RE NOT.

AND YOU KNOW, THERE ARE TIMES WHEN I THINK THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND EVEN THE ADMINISTRATION WISHES WE WERE.

BUT WE'RE A CONSERVATIVE PUBLIC POLICY THINK TANK.

SO THERE ARE VALUES AND PRINCIPLES THAT WE PROMOTE.

AND WHEN WE SEE THOSE ON WITHIN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY WE WANT TO PLAUD AND ENCOURAGE THOSE.

I LOOK FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO WORK ACROSS PARTY LINES.

WE HOLD REPUBLICANS ACCOUNTABLE WHEN THEY ARE NOT IN TUNE WITH THE VALUES AND THE EYE IDEALS THAT WE PROMOTE AND SOMETIMES THAT MEANS TAKING ON OUR OWN PRESIDENT AND WHEN THAT HAPPENS WE ACTUALLY DO THAT.

>> HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THIS PRESIDENT?

I MEAN, HE WENT ON THE RECORD AS SAYING HE SEXUALLY ASSAULTS WOMEN IN UGLY WAYS.

HE HAS BEEN WIDELY REPORTED TO HAVE CHEATED ON HIS WIFE WHEN SHE WAS QUITE PREGNANT.

ARE THOSE VALUES THAT CONSERVATIVES EMBRACE?

>> ABSOLUTELY NOT.

AND IT SHOULD NOT COME AS A SURPRISE.

BUT I LEARNED A VALUABLE LESSON FROM MY PROGRESSIVE AND LIBERAL WOMEN FRIENDS.

AND THAT IS WHEN THE PRESIDENT IS GIVING THEM THE THINGS THAT THEY WANT, THEY SURROUNDED AND THEY PROTECTED THOSE PRESIDENTS.

SO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO SPEAK OUT AGAINST BORISH BEHAVIOR AND BAD BEHAVIOR WHEN IT EXISTS.

BUT DON'T LOOK AT ME WITH ANY KIND OF HYPOCRISY AT ALL.

BECAUSE I WATCHED OVER THE YEARS AS THEY PROTECTED THEIR GUYS WHEN THEY WERE GETTING THE STUFF THEY WANTED.

>> ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT HILLARY CLINTON?

>> I'M TALKING -- YOU KNOW IT GOES BACK.

YOU CAN LOOK AT BILL CLINTON, YOU CAN LOOK AT LYNDON JOHNSON FOR CRYING OUT LOUD.

>> THAT WAS A DIFFERENT ERA AND KENNEDY, TOO.

>> AND KENNEDY ALL OF THEM.

>> BACK THEN, BACK THEN IT WASN'T REPORTED THAT KENNEDY HAD PHYSICAL PROBLEMS, FDR WAS HARDLY EVER SHOWN IN HIS WHEELCHAIR.

THOSE WERE DIFFERENT -- >> AND WE -- WE HID A LOT OF THAT BEHAVIOR.

BUT I THINK IF AFRICAN-AMERICANS ACTUALLY HEARD LYNDON JOHNSON USING THE "N" WORD, THEY PROBABLY WOULD HAVE SUPPORTED HIM ANYWAY BECAUSE OF THE IMPORTANT WORK THAT HE DID IN CIVIL RIGHTS.

MY ONLY POINT IS, THAT MANY OF THESE ARE FLAWED INDIVIDUALS, FLAWED MEN, AND I THINK THAT LEARNING A LESSON AS I SAID FROM MY PROGRESSIVE WOMEN FRIENDS -- >> WHICH ONES?

>> ALL OF THEM.

THEY GOT WHAT THEY WANTED FROM BILL CLINTON SO THEY SURROUNDED AND PROTECTED HIM.

WE SEE THAT COMING OUT OF HOLLYWOOD WHEN YOU KNOW, JUST RECENTLY THAT STUFF BECAME PUBLIC, BUT IT WAS A PUBLIC SECRET EVERYONE KNEW THAT THAT KIND OF BEHAVIOR EXISTED OUT THERE.

BUT THEY WERE GETTING WHAT THEY WANTED.

THEY WERE GETTING THE ROLES AND THE FILMS THEY WANTED.

THEY WERE GETTING THE ADVANCEMENT.

SO THEY PUT UP WITH IT.

SO QUITE FRANKLY, YOU KNOW, I DON'T HAVE A LOT OF PATIENCE FOR THAT.

WE AS WOMEN CUT DEALS AND GET WHAT WE WANT.

RONALD REAGAN PRODUCED 49% IN HIS FOUR YEARS IN OFFICE OF A CONSERVATIVE AGENDA THAT WE PRODUCED CALL THE MANDATE FOR LEADERSHIP.

TRUMP HAS DONE 64% IN YEAR ONE.

HE'S PRODUCING.

>> DOES THAT MAKE YOU HAPPY OR SAD?

>> HE IS PRODUCING, I'M PLEASED WITH THE QUALITY AND THE KINDS OF CHANGES THAT WE ARE GETTING IN IMPORTANT AREAS.

AND SO -- >> WHERE IS HE AGREEING WITH YOU?

>> WELL, WE ARE GETTING A LOT OF THINGS IN TERMS OF HIS PUSH ON INFRASTRUCTURE, WE ARE ABOUT TO GET ENTITLEMENT REFORM.

HE HAS DONE A PHENOMENAL JOB ON TAX RELIEF.

WE ARE EXCITED ABOUT THAT.

WE'RE SEEING DEREGULATION TAKE PLACE WHERE WE HAVE BEEN IN OVERREGULATED COUNTRY.

SO WE'RE SEEING A LOT OF POSITIVE THINGS IN TERMS OF POLICY.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT -- >> AND JUDGES.

DON'T FORGET JUDGES.

>> ENTITLEMENTS.

YOU ARE CLEARLY A WARMER FUZZIER CONSERVATIVE THAN YOUR AVERAGE YOUR MUCH MORE LIKABLE I HATE TO SAY IT IT'S TRUE THAT SOME OF THE CONGRESSIONAL LEADERSHIP.

LET'S SAY.

BUT DO YOU AGREE WITH THEM ABOUT CUTTING FEDERAL PROGRAMS THAT SUPPORT POOR PEOPLE?

>> WELL, BONNIE THAT IS A LOADED QUESTION AND IT'S FRAMED IN A VERY LOADED WAY.

I AM IN FAVOR OF PROGRAMS THAT EMPOWER PEOPLE THAT LIFT THEM UP THAT GIVE THEM HOPE AND OPPORTUNITY.

I AM NOT IN FAVOR OF PROGRAMS THAT HAVE ZAPPED PEOPLE'S SPIRIT, DIMINISHED THEIR HOPE -- >> WHICH PROGRAMS?

FOOD STAMPS?

WELFARE?

>> ALL OF THOSE PROGRAMS ARE INTENDED TO ENCOURAGE AND TO HELP.

WE HAVE SEEN AN EXPLOSION IN FOOD STAMP PROGRAMS.

REPUBLICANS ARE NOT MEAN-SPIRITED PEOPLE.

IF SOMEONE IS HUNGRY, I WANT TO FEED THEM.

IF SOMEONE NEEDS HOUSING, I WANT TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE HOUSED.

IF SOMEONE NEEDS ACCESS TO HEALTHCARE, I WANT TO MAKE SURE THEY GET IT.

BUT YOU HAVE TO KNOW IF YOU STUDY THOSE PROGRAMS CAREFULLY AND CLOSELY, THAT THERE ARE INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THOSE PROGRAMS WHO PROBABLY ARE USURPING THOSE THINGS FROM FOLKS WHO TRULY NEED THEM.

IT WAS NOT INTENDED TO BE GENERATIONAL OR AS A LIFESTYLE.

IT WAS INTENDED TO BE A HELPING HAND.

>> WELFARE REFORM UNDER PRESIDENT CLINTON SOME ALMOST 20 YEARS AGO, GOT RID OF A LOT OF THAT.

WOMEN WHO GO ON WELFARE HAVE TO WORK.

THEY DO NOT HAVE A CHOICE IF THEY STOP WORKING THEY LOSE WELFARE PAYMENTS.

AND FOOD STAMPS -- LET ME -- FOOD STAMPS DOES NOT SUFFER FROM THE CORRUPTION THAT, SAY, MEDICARE AND MEDICAID PAYMENTS DID WITH DOCTORS OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS.

NOBODY'S REPORTED ON THAT IF IT HAS.

BUT SO I MEAN IF YOU TAKE PEOPLE OFF YOU ARE GOING TO BE TAKING POOR PEOPLE AND CUTTING POOR PEOPLE WHO SAY THEY HAVE NOT ENOUGH TO EAT OFF FEDERAL ROLLS.

THAT DOES A SEEM MEAN TO YOU?

>> OF COURSE THAT WOULD BE MEAN.

BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT'S HAPPENING.

AND YOU MAY REMEMBER THAT I WAS THE SECRETARY OF HEALTH IN VIRGINIA AND DID WELFARE REFORM THERE, THE YEAR BEFORE BILL CLINTON DID IT NATIONALLY.

AND IT WAS FASCINATING TO ME TO SEE HOW THIS WORKED OUT IN THE AREA OF POLITICS.

BECAUSE WE DID WELFARE IN VIRGINIA THAT WAS FAR LESS RESTRICTIVE THAN WHAT HAPPENED AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL.

AND, YET, I WAS HARMING POOR PEOPLE AND BILL CLINTON WAS THE FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT.

SO I WAS ABLE TO -- >> YOU THINK THE MEDIA ARE TOO MEAN TO YOU?

>> NO.

I MEAN DOES IT MATTER ANYWAY?

>> I'M ASKING IS IT BECAUSE OF THE WAY YOU WERE PORTRAYED VERSUS THE WAY BILL CLINTON WAS PORTRAYED?

>> I THINK IT'S POLITICAL.

I DO NOT TAKE IT AS MEAN OR NOT MEAN.

IT'S PURE POLITICS.

PURE AND SIMPLE.

BECAUSE WHEN WE DID IT IN VIRGINIA, IT WAS MEAN.

WHEN BILL CLINTON DID IT NATIONALLY IT WASN'T.

AND IT WAS JUST REALLY STRIKING TO ME TO SEE THE DIFFERENCE AND THAT IS WHEN I BEGAN TO REALLY UNDERSTAND THIS IS NOT TRULY ABOUT EMPOWERING OR HELPING POOR PEOPLE.

IT'S POLITICAL.

IT'S PURE POLITICS.

>> WHEN YOU SAY PURE POLITICS, DO YOU MEAN THAT DEMOCRATS WERE COMING AFTER YOU?

I'M WHEN YOU SAY PURE POLITICS -- >> IT'S PURE POLITICS WHEN A REPUBLICAN DOES IT BAD WHEN A DEMOCRAT DOES IT GOOD.

AND SO YOU KNOW, NO ONE WAS ACTUALLY SITTING DOWN AND STUDYING IT.

I ENCOURAGED PEOPLE TO TAKE THE TWO PIECES OF LEGISLATION, PUT THEM SIDE-BY-SIDE, AND ACTUALLY ANALYZE THEM.

>> VIRGINIA'S WELFARE REFORM.

>> AT THAT TIME AND WHAT HAPPENED NATIONALLY.

>> WHAT PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE ON FOOD STAMPS DO YOU THINK ARE FRAUDSTERS?

>> I HAVE NO IDEA.

THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE IDEAS AND WHO KNOW THAT.

WE KNOW IT'S GROWN EXPONENTIALLY IN THE LAST FEW YEARS IN TERMS OF THE PEOPLE ENROLLED.

AND WHEN I TALK TO PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THE COMMUNITY AND WHO DESPERATELY NEED THOSE RESOURCES, THEY WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY ARE PROTECTED FOR THE FOLKS THAT REALLY NEED IT AND NOT THOSE WHO ACTUALLY DON'T.

I DON'T KNOW ANY AMERICAN THAT DOESN'T WANT A POOR KID OR A HUNGRY KID FED.

LET'S TAKE THAT OFF THE TABLE.

I MEAN THAT IS JUST SO MUCH RHETORIC.

AND I ALSO KNOW THERE ARE INDIVIDUALS WHO TRULY BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE FOLKS ON THOSE PROGRAMS THAT ARE ROBBING AND ZAPPING THOSE PROGRAMS OF RESOURCES AND KEEPING THEM AWAY FROM TRULY NEEDY PEOPLE.

SO LET'S SORT THAT OUT.

AND WE ALSO KNOW THAT -- >> TELL ME, DO HOW DO YOU SORT THAT OUT?

INVESTIGATE?

>> IT'S INTERESTING WHEN THERE ARE WORK REQUIREMENTS, HOW MANY PEOPLE ROTATE OFF RIGHT AT THAT TIME.

SO WE'VE GOT TO BUILD INCENTIVES INTO THE PROGRAMS TO MAKE PEOPLE BECOME SELF SUFFICIENT AND INDEPENDENT.

WE DON'T WANT TO BUILD PROGRAMS THAT MAKE PEOPLE DEPENDENT FOR LIFE.

I CAME OUT OF A FAMILY WHO BENEFITED FROM THAT SAFETY NET.

SO I WANT THAT SAFETY NET THERE.

AND I WANT IT THERE FOR THE TRULY NEEDY.

BUT I DON'T WANT TO SEE GENERATION AFTER GENERATION OF PEOPLE WHO DON'T TAKE ADVANTAGE OF OR DON'T KNOW HOW TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE OPPORTUNITIES THAT THIS COUNTRY HAS.

>> LET'S TRANSFER OUR DISCUSSION TO THE HEALTHCARE ARENA.

DO YOU WANT TO SEE OBAMACARE COMPLETELY -- WHATEVER IS LEFT OF IT AT THIS POINT, COMPLETELY DONE AWAY WITH?

>> I WANT TO SEE FREE MARKET PRINCIPLES AT WORK.

I WANT TO SEE PATIENTS HAVE CHOICES.

I WANT TO SEE THE HEALTHCARE DOLLARS SPENT TO TO THE BEST TO GET THE KIND OF HEALTHCARE THAT PEOPLE DESERVE.

I DON'T THINK WHAT WE SAW WITH THE INDIVIDUAL MANDATE, I DON'T THINK THAT WHAT WE SAW WITH HOW THE EXCHANGES DEVELOPED, AN OPPORTUNITY FOR FREE MARKETS TO REIN AND PEOPLE TO HAVE CHOICE.

DO I WANT TO SEE THOSE THINGS FIXED?

I DO.

>> WHAT DO YOU SAY TO YOUNG POOR WOMEN MANY OF WHOM ARE OF COLOR WHO WANT ACCESS TO BIRTH CONTROL PILLS AND WILL NOT GET THEM UNDER ANYTHING BUT OBAMACARE?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I DON'T THINK THAT IS FACTUALLY ACCURATE.

AND I HAVE NO OPPOSITION TO ANYONE WHO WANTS REPRODUCTIVE CARE IN TERMS OF CONTRACEPTION.

HAVING THE ABILITY TO GET THAT.

NOT MY ISSUE.

>> BUT, WHEN YOU SAY HAVING THE ABILITY TO GET THAT, THERE ARE YOUNG WOMEN WHO PLAIN CANNOT AFFORD IT, UNLESS IT'S COVERED BY THEIR HEALTH INSURANCE.

WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THEM, TOO BAD?

>> NO.

WHAT YOU SAY IS THERE ARE OPTIONS.

AND THERE SHOULD BE OPTIONS.

FRANKLY, AT MY AGE I'M MORE INTERESTED IN ESTROGEN REPLACEMENT THERAPY THAN I AM IN BIRTH CONTROL.

SO WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO HAVE BIRTH CONTROL IN MY HEALTH PLAN?

I THINK WE OUGHT TO HAVE A MULTIPLE VARIETY OF HEALTH PLANS AND PEOPLE CHOOSE WHAT IS BEST FOR THEM.

>> MORE ERT FOR WOMEN IN ONE END OF THE SPECTRUM AND MORE OPTIONS TO COVER BIRTH CONTROL FOR YOUNG WOMEN AT THE OTHER END.

>> I THINK THAT -- I THINK THAT WHEN YOU HAVE OPTIONS PEOPLE CAN MAKE CHOICES ABOUT WHAT IS BEST FOR THEM.

BUT TO MANDATE A CERTAIN LEVEL OF COVERAGE FOR EVERYONE AND WE ALL HAVE TO PAY FOR THAT, I -- IT'S NOT JUST NOT SOMETHING THAT I WANT OR NEED.

BUT DO I WANT TO DENY IT FOR SOMEONE ELSE OR THAT OPTION TO DISAPPEAR.

ABSOLUTELY NOT.

LET'S HAVE CHOICE AND FREEDOM.

>> AND CONSERVATIVES ARE BIG BELIEVERS IN THE FREE MARKET AND PROGRESSIVES THE RESPONSE IS IF YOU DO NOT MANDATE IT, THE INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE NOT GOING TO PROVIDE IT.

THEY ARE NOT.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW IT'S INTERESTING WHAT HAPPENS WHEN FREE MARKETS DO REIN.

IF THERE IS A NEED AND A DOLLAR TO BE MADE SOMEONE IS GOING TO PROVIDE THAT SERVICE.

>> OK. LET'S MOVE ON TO THE ENVIRONMENT.

HIM.

WE ARE GOING TO GO DOWN ALL THE -- >> ALL THE ISSUES THAT YOU HATE TO TALK ABOUT.

YES.

JUST A LITTLE BIT.

>> OK. >> DO YOU THINK THE PRESIDENT'S DEREGULATIONS ARE GOOD FOR THE ECONOMY, BAD FOR THE ECONOMY, GOOD FOR THE ENVIRONMENT, BAD OR THE ENVIRONMENT?

>> I THINK THAT THERE'S A DIRTY LITTLE SECRET IN THIS TOWN.

AND THAT IS THAT THOSE OF US WHO HAVE WORKED HERE LONG ENOUGH DISCOVERED IT, WHAT YOU CAN'T GET THROUGH LAW, YOU CAN GET THROUGH REGULATION.

SO THEY WILL PASS BROAD LAWS AND PEOPLE ARE HAPPY EVERYONE GOES HOME AND THEN THEY DEVELOP REGULATIONS.

AND SO WHAT'S HAPPENED OVER THE YEARS, IS THE REGULATORY ENVIRONMENT ORIGINALLY WAS FOR HEALTH AND SAFETY.

AND IT HAS BROADENED.

AND SO WHAT YOU SEE IS A LOT OF PRESCRIPTIVE THINGS HAPPENING THROUGH THE REGULATORY PROCESS.

SO THIS PRESIDENT HAS SAID YOU KNOW, WE'RE GOING TO GO BACK TO HEALTH AND SAFETY AND ANYTHING ELSE THAT COSTS VOLUMES OF MONEY, SLOWS DOWN PROCESSES, IS OVERLY PRESCRIPTIVE FOR SMALL AND LARGE BUSINESSES.

WE NEED TO TAKE A SECOND LOOK AT.

I DON'T KNOW WHERE THIS CAME FROM THAT REPUBLICANS LOVE DRINKING DIRTY WATER, BREATHING NASTY AIR, AND FISHING IN STREAMS THAT ARE CLOGGED.

WE LOVE OUR ENVIRONMENT AND OUR COUNTRY AS MUCH AS ANYONE ELSE.

I WANT CLEAN AIR FOR MY GRANDKIDS.

I WANT CLEAN DRINKING WATER IN OUR URBAN AREAS.

SO THOSE THINGS ARE IMPORTANT TO US AS WELL.

BUT I THINK THAT THERE IS ROOM AT THE TABLE FOR DISCUSSION ABOUT HOW BEST TO DELIVER THOSE THINGS.

>> AND WHAT DO YOU THINK THE BEST WAY IS TO JUST LET THE MARKET, AGAIN, PREVAIL?

>> I THINK THAT WHEN YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE SPECIFICS IN THOSE AREAS, THERE'S LOTS OF ROOM FOR US TO MAINTAIN CLEAN WATER, CLEAN AIR, CLEAN STREAMS, CLEAN RIVERS WITHOUT BEING OVERLY PRESCRIPTIVE AND THAT IS WHAT I THINK THE PRESIDENT AND OUR EPA DIRECTOR ARE LOOKING AT.

>> WE ARE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OBVIOUSLY OF A MAJOR POLITICAL BATTLE OVER GUN RIGHTS IN THIS COUNTRY.

DOES HERITAGE TAKE A POSITION ON THE SECOND AMENDMENT?

>> OF COURSE WE DO.

>> OK. AND HOW -- >> IT SHOULD COME AS NO SURPRISE WE SUPPORT THE SECOND AMENDMENT.

>> TO WHAT EXTENT?

>> TO THE FULLEST EXTENT.

>> TO AN UNLIMITED EXTENT?

>> I THINK THAT EVERYONE RECOGNIZES THAT YOU CAN SUPPORT THE SECOND AMENDMENT AND BE AGREEABLE TO LOOKING AT HOW BEST TO ENFORCE THAT OR ENACT THAT OR ALLOW THAT.

AND SO OUR POLICY THINKERS ARE LOOKING THAT WITHIN HERITAGE AND YOU WILL SEE WORK COMING OUT IN THE NEAR FUTURE BECAUSE WITH THE ENVIRONMENT THAT WE ARE IN RIGHT NOW, I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE LEADERSHIP ON THESE ISSUES.

I AM MORE CONCERNED ABOUT SCHOOL SAFETY THAN I AM ABOUT BANNING GUNS.

QUITE FRANKLY.

I HAVE GRANDCHILDREN WHO GO TO% THESE SCHOOLS AND NIECES AND NEPHEWS ON THESE COLLEGE CAMPUSES.

>> HOW DO THEY FEEL?

HOW DO THEY FEEL ABOUT GUN REGULATION?

>> WELL, I THINK ALL OF US WANT THOSE SAFE.

BUT IF YOU WANT THEM SAFE YOU ARE NOT JUST ABOUT PROMOTING AN ANTIGUN AGENDA, AND USING THE CRISIS TO DO THAT, THEN YOU RECOGNIZE THAT THE PROBLEM IS FAR BROADER THAN THAT.

AND I MEAN, AND WE ALL FOR THAT.

IF YOU LOOK AT THESE ISSUES YOU KNOW THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MENTAL HEALTH.

WE KNOW THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT VIOLENCE IN HOLLYWOOD AND GAMING INDUSTRY.

WE KNOW THAT WE'VE GOT TO LOOK AT HOW IS IT THAT I GET ON AN AIRPLANE AND I'M SAFER THAN WHEN MY GRANDKID GOES INTO A HIGH SCHOOL.

SO THE REALITY IS YOU KNOW, LET'S DO SOMETHING REAL AND NOT JUST USE THIS CRISIS IN AMERICA AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO GO AFTER THE SECOND AMENDMENT.

>> DID YOU WATCH THE KIDS SPEAK OUT AFTER PARKLAND?

>> I DID.

>> WHAT DID YOU THINK?

>> I WAS SO ENCOURAGED.

I LOVED THOSE KIDS.

I LOVED THOSE KIDS.

OUR DEMOCRACY DOES NOT WORK UNLESS PEOPLE ARE INFORMED AND ENGAGED.

THEY WERE ENGAGED AND NOW I WOULD LIKE THEM TO GET INFORMED.

>> YOU DON'T THINK THEY WERE INFORMED?

>> ON SOME POINTS, NO, THEY WEREN'T.

>> SUCH AS?

>> YOU KNOW, SUCH AS FOCUSING ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY ON GUNS AND NOT LOOKING AT THE BROADER ISSUE OF WHAT CAUSES VIOLENCE.

WE ARE A VIOLENT CULTURE.

AND WE'VE GOT TO ADDRESS THAT.

>> DO YOU THINK HOLLYWOOD AND THE MEDIA SHOULD BE REGULATED?

>> I THINK THEY SHOULD REGULATE THEMSELVES A WHOLE LOT BETTER THAN THEY DO.

THEY SHOULD TAKE OWNERSHIP AND RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE STUFF THAT THEY PRODUCE.

I YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK YOU CAN REGULATE PEOPLE'S BEHAVIOR.

WE JUST HAD A CONVERSATION ABOUT THE REGULATORY ENVIRONMENT.

I'M CERTAINLY NOT GOING TO NOW SIT HERE AND SAY, YES, WE SHOULD HAVE A WHOLE NEW ROUND OF REGULATIONS.

BUT I'M HOPING THAT PEOPLE WILL DO THE RIGHT THING.

THAT PEOPLE WILL STEP FORWARD AND SAY WE HAVE A SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY IN THESE AREAS.

YOU KNOW, THERE'S EVEN, I THINK, ROOM TO TALK ABOUT FAMILY AND FAMILY STRUCTURE, HOW MANY OF THESE ANGRY YOUNG BLACK -- NOT BLACK THEY WERE ALL WHITE -- HOW MANY OF THOSE YOUNG MEN SCHOOL SHOOTERS HAD NO NO FATHERS IN THE HOME NN THE YOUNG BLACK MEN IN URBAN AREAS WHO ARE LIVING AND DYING ON THE STREETS HAVE FATHERS THERE TO HELP AND GUIDE THEM?

AND FRANKLY, BONNIE, I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE FACT THAT YOU CAN PICK AND URBAN AREA AND KIDS ARE DYING ON STREET CORNERS EVERY WEEKEND AND THERE IS NO CALL TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT.

AND WE HAVE A SCHOOL SHOOTING AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN THE COUNTRY IS UP IN ARMS.

I THINK THOSE KIDS WHO DIE ON THE STREET CORNERS IN URBAN AREAS, LIVES ARE JUST AS IMPORTANT AND JUST AS VALUABLE.

AND SO I THINK THE QUESTION IS WAY BROADER THAN JUST GUNS.

AND I THINK IF WE FOCUS ON JUST GUNS, WE WILL MISS A TREMENDOUS OPPORTUNITY TO TALK ABOUT HOW TO TURN THIS COUNTRY AROUND.

>> BUT YOU KNOW YOU TALK ABOUT SHAMING HOLLYWOOD INTO DOING SOMETHING ABOUT THE LEVELS OF VIOLENCE WHICH, I TOTALLY AGREE ARE TOXIC.

AND PROBABLY DO AFFECT KIDS AT YOUNG AGES.

ISN'T THAT KIND OF LIKE SHOUTING DOWN A WIND TUNNEL?

>> I WOULD HOPE NOT.

I WOULD HOPE NOT.

AND I THINK THERE ARE PEOPLE OF CONSCIENCE THERE IN THAT ENVIRONMENT WHO WILL STEP UP AND WHO WILL SPEAK UP.

AND I THINK THAT IF WE DON'T HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE, IF WE DON'T ENGAGE IN THOSE CONVERSATIONS IT'S NEVER GOING TO CHANGE.

>> ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU SO MUCH, KAY.

AND YOU KNOW WE LOVE YOU AT TO THE CONTRARY.

>> BECAUSE I'M TO THE CONTRARY.

[LAUGHTER] >> WE ALL ARE.

THAT'S IT FOR THIS EDITION.

FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER AND VISIT OUR WEBSITE, PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.

AND WHETHER YOU AGREE OR THINK TO THE CONTRARY, SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

[♪♪]