A closer look at President Biden’s plan to combat the increase in crime across the country

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• Amna Nawaz:

  President Biden first intended to give today's speech on gun violence and public safety last month. His COVID diagnosis delayed the trip, so it now took place in the wake of unprecedented attacks on law enforcement since the FBI executed a court-approved search of former President Donald Trump's home.

  Laura Barrón-López has more.

• Laura Barrón-López:

  In a speech touting the recently enacted bipartisan gun safety law and promoting funding for police, President Biden voice new urgency. He drew a stark contrast with some Republicans who have called to defund the FBI.

  Joe Biden, President of the United States: You're either on the side of a mob or the side of the police. You can't be pro-law enforcement and pro-insurrection.

  (CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

• Joe Biden:

  You can't be a party of law and order and call the people who attacked the police on January 6 patriots. You can't do it.

  I'm opposed to defunding the police. I'm also opposed to defunding the FBI.

• Laura Barrón-López:

  Joining me to discuss all this is John Roman. He's a crime researcher at NORC at the University of Chicago. And Donell Harvin, he's the former head of homeland security and intelligence for Washington, D.C.

  Thank you for joining us today.

  Donell, I'd like to start with you.

  President Biden struck a contrast, saying that Republicans can't be the party of law and order and also-called January 6 insurrectionists patriots and call for defunding the FBI. What's your response to his speech?

  Donell Harvin, Former D.C. Chief of Homeland Security and Intelligence: Well, I haven't heard the president this fired up in quite a long time.

  I think, conceptually, he's spot on, in terms of those individuals who make excuses and call the people that stormed our nation's capital, assaulted law enforcement, patriots. I think it feeds into the narrative, and it helps these individuals continue to radicalize when you don't call them out for what they are. They're criminals. And, quite frankly, I believe that they're traitors to the Constitution and to the nation.

  Law and order requires that law and order be kept not just when it's against people that you don't like, but also when it's against your party. And so we have seen a lot of hate, a lot of vitriol, not only by lawmakers and elected officials, but also online in the dark and deep Web, against specifically the FBI and federal law enforcement.

  And that just plays into a narrative of radicalization and mobilization of violence. And we saw that play out in Cincinnati last month with the attack on the FBI office out there.

• Laura Barrón-López:

  John, the president made these comments about attacks on the FBI in a speech that was also about accomplishments by his administration, whether it's getting the nominee for Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms finally confirmed, as well as finalizing a regulation that was cracking down on ghost guns.

  Those are untraceable guns that are made from online kits. I know it's been a short time since those have taken effect. But has there been a noticeable impact on crime, given those new events?

  John Roman, NORC at the University of Chicago: Well, I mean, there's every reason to believe that there will be.

  So, all of the things that the Biden administration has been able to do in a bipartisan way, the legislation that was passed by Congress, the things that that does, raising the age that people can buy an assault rifle from 18 to 21, changing and closing the boyfriend loophole, so that people who are domestic partner and not a not a spouse can get an extreme risk protection order and protect themselves if they feel like their life is at — is threatened, and getting money to the FBI, cracking down on ghost guns.

  These are all things with a strong research and evidence base behind them. And I think that's a really important point. There isn't that much data out there on firearms. And where we have been able to piece things together, you see good research that informs the kind of policies that have been put forward and passed in a bipartisan way.

  And I think that argues for more data and more compromise and more public safety.

• Laura Barrón-López:

  And, John, at the same time that there have been an increase in the number of guns circulating in the U.S., there are also — there's a lot of popularity among Americans in terms of stricter gun laws.

  Can you explain that cognitive dissonance there?

• John Roman:

  Yes, I think it's pretty interesting, because it suggests that the American people have a more nuanced understanding of their situation than the policy narrative would suggest.

  So two things have happened. There were more homicides in 2020, a 30 percent increase year over year, the biggest one-year increase we have seen since we have been keeping statistics since 1960, so a huge increase in homicides. And these are mainly gun homicides.

  At the same time, more than 20 million guns were sold in each of 2020, 2021 and 2022. So, you have 50 million new guns sold and a big increase in homicide. And people are buying guns because they're afraid and they buy the gun to protect themselves, but they're afraid of other people with guns. So they want strong regulation to protect them against the wrong person getting a gun and putting them even more at risk.

• Laura Barrón-López:

  And, Donell, on this point, there are some 400 million guns in circulation in the United States. Can you put that in the context of these increased threats that are occurring towards the — towards FBI agents and towards Capitol Police?

• Donnell Harvin:

  We have a problem with armed militias in this country, as well as radical violent extremists, quite frankly.

  Many of them are anti-government. And they have been amassing one of the world's largest small-arms arsenal for decades, quite frankly. The lapse on the ban on assault rifles helped propel that when that lapsed during the Bush administration.

  And the fact that these individuals are heavily armed, many of them are trained, they have former military, law enforcement background, and they're waiting for a lot of the signals. We will call them dog whistles, but they're not dog whistles. I mean, these are blatant signals from lawmakers waiting for the call to come out and really try to take down the governor or take down law enforcement.

  We have accelerationist groups that are anti-government that simply just want to bring about the devolution of our country through civil war and race wars.

  You mentioned it. We have more guns than people in this country. And a lot of those guns are in the wrong hands. And people see that. And to the earlier point, they want to get guns. And you see that in New York state now. A lot of people are lining up to get guns because everyone's scared of what's to come.

• Laura Barrón-López:

  John, very briefly, what more actions do you think President Biden could take to address the prevalence of guns in the United States?

• John Roman:

  Yes, it's interesting.

  If you look at the surveys that we have done, you see that there is an overwhelming support among both gun owners and non-gun owners for things like stricter background checks, for more resources for the ATF, for limits on concealed carry to keep people from just being able to walk around unregulated with a weapon that they have no training for.

  There's a lot of consensus across the American voters about all of these issues. And I think that there's a window of opportunity here, where we have made some progress and had some compromise to improve public safety. There's more to be done. And I think we're on the right trajectory.

• Laura Barrón-López:

  John Roman, Donell Harvin, thank you.

• John Roman:

  Thank you.