Buttigieg calls for accountability as Southwest cancellation ‘meltdown’ worsens

Judy Woodruff:

For more about what's happening and the federal response to these cancellations and delays, I'm joined by the U.S. secretary of transportation, Pete Buttigieg.

Mr. Secretary, thank you so much for joining us.

How much of what is going on with the airlines is due to their poor decisions and how much is due to the weather?

Pete Buttigieg, U.S. Secretary of Transportation: Well, we really see two different things going on.

One is a chain of events that was because of the weather. Everybody understands this was an extreme storm and it knocked the aviation system off balance. But we're seeing recovery in most of the system. As a matter of fact, but for one airline, the cancellation rate is down to about 5 percent and falling.

But that other airline, Southwest Airlines, is actually moving in the wrong direction. They have had a set of cascading effects. A majority of their flights are canceled. And it's led to catastrophic and unacceptable conditions, in terms of what's happening to passengers and what's happening to employees.

Ordinarily, I think that, sometimes, in the media, the word meltdown is used a little bit too often. Right now, I would say meltdown is the only word I can use to describe what is happening across Southwest Airlines' operations.

Judy Woodruff:

Well, we understand you have spoken today with the CEO of Southwest and of the head of the airline attendants — flight attendants union.

What are you learning about what's gone wrong and what's the source of it?

Pete Buttigieg:

Well, what the flight attendants and also the pilots have described to me is outdated systems so that, right now, the airline is unable to track where many of its crews even are.

Obviously, that's not an acceptable state of affairs when you are trying to recover operations. We're also hearing from customers, passengers who are not even able to get on the phone line, just getting a busy signal when they call for help.

I spoke to the CEO of Southwest Airlines. I reminded him of the stepped-up commitments that the airline made to our department over the summer. And we got those commitments in writing about how they take care of customers, passengers when there are issues like this.

We're going to be holding them accountable to those commitments and expect them to go above and beyond the letter of the law in terms of how they treat passengers, making sure that they are paying for things like hotels, ground travel expenses, meals and, of course, the refunds for passengers whose flights are canceled.

They have pledged that they're going to be doing that. I'll be watching very closely to make sure that they follow through.

Judy Woodruff:

So, they're saying they're going to do this for everyone affected adversely by travel right now this week?

Pete Buttigieg:

Anyone whose flight is canceled is entitled to a cash refund. That should be a prompt refund.

They are also indicating — and, again, this is per the customer service plans that they filed with us over the summer after we pressed them and the other airlines to increase their customer service commitments — that they will do things like taking care of a hotel or a meal.

So, yes, that, at a minimum, is my expectation for how the passengers who are stranded today are going to be treated.

Judy Woodruff:

And what about going forward?

I mean, we are — we spoke with an airline travel expert today, who said essentially that their system of scheduling, as you just referred to, is broken. What are you looking for them to do going forward from today?

Pete Buttigieg:

Well, clearly, they need to demonstrate that they can't allow a system, a problem like this to happen again.

We — again, we all understand that weather can have a major and serious impact on flight operations. But where you have the entire rest of the aviation system recovering and cancellations and delays returning to normal, you have a situation here with Southwest that seems to be completely paralyzed.

I also think we need to take a look at things like whether their schedule was realistic and other things that they need to do. Ultimately, of course, they have a responsibility as a company to their passengers and employees. But, as a watchdog, we're watching very closely to make sure that they're meeting their customer service commitments.

Judy Woodruff:

You mentioned a couple of times the commitments that Southwest and other airlines made over the summer.

But those penalties, those fines clearly didn't prevent what's going on right now. What does that tell you about the level of enforcement?

Pete Buttigieg:

Well, we're taking a look at what else we can do.

Ultimately, what we're seeing is that no other airline had this issue. So, it does seem to be specific to this one airline. They're going to have to, I think, as a company that has relationships with their passengers, answer for that. But they're also going to be responsible to us for meeting their customer service commitments.

And what we have found is that, both through transparency and through enforcement, we have been able to get a lot of results out of airlines. Just this year alone, we have gotten hundreds of millions of dollars back to hundreds of thousands of passengers.

And because we put that pressure on over the summer, many airlines, including Southwest, made new commitments in writing to what they will do for passengers in situations like this. Now that we have that in hand, we're in a position to hold them accountable to them. And that's exactly what were going to be doing as we look ahead.

Judy Woodruff:

And so what, right now, Mr. Secretary, should people who are flying look forward to in the days in the weeks to come?

Pete Buttigieg:

Well, first of all, you want to make sure that you're using that Web site to request a refund if your flight was canceled to get that — those reimbursements and that funding.

We have a Web site too. So, Southwest is responsible for a Web site available to customers, but we have a Web site for filing a complaint if this or any airline is failing to meet their commitments. And we follow through on that.

As we go forward, you can expect us to continue to be there for airline passengers. Again, a lot of gains have been made this summer, but — and going into this fall. But, as you can see, this winter, we are not out of the woods yet, and airlines need to continue to improve their customer service patterns, although I would note that many airlines were able to recover very quickly after an almost unprecedented storm, impacting multiple hubs for multiple airlines across the country.

The majority of the airline system is moving back to normal or closer to normal. We have seen, again, the opposite in the case of this one airline. And that's something that's going to require a lot of follow-through, not just on their part, but we're going to be looking at the causes of this and what can be done.

Judy Woodruff:

I have one last question with regard to road and highway travel, and that is watching what has been happening in New York state, in Western New York state, the Buffalo area, where local officials, city and county, have asked people to stay off the roads.

Most people have in the heavy, heavy snow, but some have not. And that's led to lives being lost because emergency vehicles haven't been able to get to where people need help. Is there something more that can be done in those situations?

Pete Buttigieg:

I cannot emphasize this enough.

When local authorities say to stay off the roads, stay off the roads. That is for your own safety and for their ability to respond to emergencies. I know that, especially around the Christmas holidays and the winter holidays, people maybe feel a different kind of pressure, that it's hard to heed those warnings.

But what your family wants, more than having you there at New Year's, more than having you there for a holiday observance, what your family wants is for you to be safe and alive for many holidays to come. That is literally what's at stake.

Judy Woodruff:

Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg, thank you very much.

Pete Buttigieg:

Thank you. Good to be with you.