Election deniers hold critical positions in Republican politics despite national rejection

Amna Nawaz:

Over the weekend, Republicans in the key state of Michigan voted to make a well-known election denier their new party chairman.

Kristina Karamo ran on her doubts of the 2020 election process and her refusal to concede her own loss for secretary of state last year. And she's not the only new party chair fanning those flames.

Our Lisa Desjardins joins us with more.

Lisa, good to see you see you.

Lisa Desjardins:

Thank you.

Amna Nawaz:

So, Kristina Karamo is not the only one. Where else are we seeing election deniers run Republican state parties?

Lisa Desjardins:

Let's take you through the map.

And these — each of these candidates is a little bit different, now party chairmen.

First, Kristina Karamo, as you said, in Michigan. This was Saturday night that she was elected in a contentious election in Michigan. But then, after that, let's look at Kansas. There, a man Mike Brown is the new party chairman. He was elected a week ago. He ran ads last year in his secretary of state bid questioning the 2020 election and raising that debunked Dominion Voting idea. That was part of his failed campaign for secretary of state, now the party chairman in Kansas.

Then let's go to two others who are not outright deniers, but someone — these are folks who have raised doubts or allowed these doubts to fester. There, you see in Florida the new Florida Republican chairman, Christian Ziegler. He is someone who says he wants to move forward, move past 2020. He was at the January 6 rally in Washington, but he condemned the actions that day later on.

Then in Arizona, another swing state, Jeff DeWit, similarly a former top Trump official, he was elected party chairman there three weeks ago. He beat an outright election denier. So, in some places, this is a question of how far right you are. But he is someone who overtly has gone out of his way to not answer questions about whether 2020 election was legitimate or not.

Amna Nawaz:

Tell me more about Kristina Karamo in Michigan, though, because she lost her race for secretary of state. Why would Republicans put her in charge there?

Lisa Desjardins:

These are important races because, in part, of the 2024 election cycles. This is a big swing state.

She ran specifically on a platform of not trusting the Republican Party, not trusting government. I want to play a clip of her speech in the nominating contest this weekend.

Kristina Karamo, Michigan Republican Party Chair:

We do fight to secure our elections. It's the reason I did not concede after the 2022 election.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

Kristina Karamo:

Why would I concede to a fraudulent process?

Lisa Desjardins:

Now, if you look at what was going on in Michigan over the weekend in that state party convention, there were three ballots, and it was described as, in part, chaotic, rowdy.

She raised not only questions about 2020 and 2022, but about this election also. The process there in this weekend's vote was called into question. They had to do hand counts. That is part of this movement, saying all voting should be by hand and counted by hand. And that won out with the faithful there in Michigan.

Now, I want to raise that she also really seemed to edge out another competitor who is also a very overt election denier by talking about Judeo-Christianity, by being a Christian nationalist, especially.

We reached out to her. Her past claims have been debunked, including a lawsuit that was rejected by a judge, saying there was no evidence at all. He was saying that it was dramatically devoid of evidence. Her campaign and folks did not respond to us.

But, in Michigan, this is something that I think we're going to have to watch, as she just becomes the party chairman just in the last couple of days and hours.

Amna Nawaz:

So, you have been talking to strategists and lawmakers connected to all of these states, Republicans in particular. What do they make of this?

Lisa Desjardins:

Republicans, it depends on the state.

In Florida, for example, they say they have made gains. They feel good about where their party at — is at in general, compared to these other states, where we have seen them lose races with these kinds of candidates.

Michigan, for example, we know of at least one congressional seat that Republicans feel they should have had, but they nominated someone who was a denier last time. There is concern there. One Michigan Republican told me even they're concerned this has become a cultlike atmosphere. And that's coming from a real conservative from that state.

Amna Nawaz:

What about Democrats? They have long denied — said this is a danger to democracy, this kind of election denialism.

Lisa Desjardins:

That's right.

Amna Nawaz:

What are they saying?

Lisa Desjardins:

I think there's concerns about democracy from both parties, but Democrats are waiting to see.

They are wondering if perhaps Kristina Karamo, who was not endorsed by Trump this time around, indicates the base is moving even past Trump. It's a little bit chaotic, but Democrats do have some more hope from the Senate races, because Michigan, Arizona, those are places that they don't mind weaker Republican parties.

Amna Nawaz:

What about Republicans in Congress when it comes to these false claims about 2020 election fraud?

Lisa Desjardins:

Yes.

No one, I think, has been more concerned about this, but probably said less, than the Republicans in Congress, who arguably believe that they lost the U.S. Senate because of election deniers and should have had a bigger majority in the House.

Now, there are a few of them that are still denying the election. There are a couple, though — Paul Gosar just in December retweeted something from President Trump saying it was time to terminate the Constitution.

But apart from all of that, I think it's important to remind folks that the temperatures on the Hill are trying to turn down, even as we see the base temperatures continue to rise. We saw it in Fulton County, Georgia, last week in that investigation that could include former President Trump. The grand jury there came to this conclusion, which remains one of the bottom lines here, Amna.

"We find by unanimous vote," the grand jury wrote, "that no widespread fraud took place" in their case in Georgia 2020.

However, Republican Party chairmen now are still raising that false claim.

Amna Nawaz:

Critical issues. I'm so glad you're covering it all.

Lisa Desjardins, thank you so much.

Lisa Desjardins:

Thank you.