Examining the crisis in America’s democracy and the polarization of its politics

Amna Nawaz:

Nearly 250 years ago, America's founders came together to declare that everyone has unalienable rights. Just what those rights are has been debated ever since.

Judy Woodruff looked at those questions and more today in a visit to the University of Virginia in Charlottesville.

Judy Woodruff:

Thanks, Amna.

I came here to UVA to take part in a program honoring the "NewsHour"'s co-founder and former anchor the late Jim Lehrer.

And, while here, I had the chance to speak with a professor who's long been interested in America's polarization, which has only grown sharper in the past few years, including just last week with the Supreme Court and the abortion rights draft.

He is political scientist Sid Milkis, whose latest book is "What Happened to the Vital Center?"

Sid Milkis, thank you very much for talking with us.

You have studied, you have written so much about democracy, about — you have looked really hard at what has held us together and what has driven us apart.

Where are we right now?

Sid Milkis, University of Virginia Miller Center: We are fighting over the meaning of our rights, the meaning of the Constitution.

I think what strikes me as different about the contemporary period of polarization is that — is, our democracy is so unfiltered now, if you will, that many of the institutions that in the past have constrained our battles, as fundamental as they have been, have been weakened considerably.

And I look to the 1960s as an important period that began to weaken some of the key institutions that have been critical to building a consensus in American politics.

Judy Woodruff:

And you also write about the growing importance, the growing power of the executive branch, the presidency.

Sid Milkis:

Yes.

Judy Woodruff:

How — what effect has that had on our democracy?

Sid Milkis:

Yes.

For a long time, until the 1960s, there was some obligation on the part of the president to stand above partisanship, to moderate conflicts. As Theodore Roosevelt put it in a beguiling way, the president was supposed to be the steward of the — of public welfare.

Presidents didn't completely live up to that, but there was an obligation to a least transcend, to a degree, partisanship. And I think that has changed in the 19 — since the 1960s. We have seen a merger of partisanship and executive power. And I think that is a very combustible combination.

Judy Woodruff:

And I think some people have been tempted to say former President Trump is the zenith of that.

Sid Milkis:

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Judy Woodruff:

Your argument is that it — this all started before he came along.

Sid Milkis:

Yes.

A lot of the issues that former President Trump made central to our political battles really start in the 1960s and really have their origin with the conservative reaction to the dramatic social and cultural changes that take place in the 1960s, civil rights being most — the most dramatic example of that.

Judy Woodruff:

Right.

Sid Milkis:

And, in response to that, a conservative movement has emerged.

They emphasize things like law and order, protecting family values, protecting the right of parents to have some influence on the curriculum. All of these issues are there in the '60s. And they have kind of filtered through our political system ever since.

And I think what happens is, President Trump rings them to a head in a way that had not occurred before his presidency.

Judy Woodruff:

How — I mean, given where we are and the corrosive effects on, it seems to me, our ability to work together, how far do you think this could go?

Sid Milkis:

Yes.

Judy Woodruff:

Some people have said, maybe, we will have another civil war.

Sid Milkis:

Yes.

Judy Woodruff:

What do you think?

Sid Milkis:

It is really frightening, Judy, that a lot of commentators have referred to this period as the cold civil war in American politics.

And the question is, could a cold civil war become a hot civil war? And, of course, what happened on January 6 was a really serious foreboding of such a possibility. The foundation of self-government in the United States was challenged in a way that hasn't happened before.

The challenge to the notion that we had a free and fair election, when all evidence pointed to the fact that we did, suggests that we are in a really dangerous place in American politics.

I don't think we are at the place where we are going to be shooting at each other, but I definitely think a political system is in dire straits when each side views the other as an existential threat to American democracy and to their understanding of what American life is all about.

Judy Woodruff:

I was struck in the book that, at one point, you quote two other scholars saying — I think this is right at the end — saying: "Few other societies in history have managed to be both multiracial and genuinely democratic."

Sid Milkis:

Yes. Yes.

Judy Woodruff:

That is something.

Sid Milkis:

Yes, it is really something.

And it is hard to find reason to be optimistic in American politics, but I'm less opposed to polarization than a lot of my colleagues, because I think, in a sense, a democracy, what should be understood as democracy, takes flight in the 1960s. Before the 1960s, if you look at comparative politics and the way democracy is measured, given the Jim Crow system and the other discriminations against people of color, we were not a democracy until the 1960s.

And so it seems — it is not surprising that, since self-government in America really took flight only 50 years ago, that we are having these struggles over these issues. And I think it is something we have to have,because what would really make us exceptional, if we can find a way to reconcile democracy in a multiracial, multiethnic society.

Judy Woodruff:

Given what you said a moment ago, that you are not so discouraged about the polarization, that it is a healthy thing maybe that is going on right now, where are we headed?

Sid Milkis:

Thank you.

Judy Woodruff:

I mean, how — do you see this being healed in coming years?

Sid Milkis:

Yes, I am a lot better at explaining diseases than coming up with remedies for them.

I don't see anything immediate that is going to heal us. But, in addition to the fact that we are having a very important conversation — and that may be resolved by things like massive demographic shifts.

I mean, if you look at the — my students, for example, I don't think they're nearly as polarized as the rest of the country. I think they look at us with a bit of a disdain that our generation is — our generation — the generations before them are so divided.

A lot of these social issues that we have — that I have talked about, they — they're very comfortable with them. They're pretty comfortable about having hard conversations. So that's one hope, generational change, which is…

Judy Woodruff:

Sure.

Sid Milkis:

… which is the way American democracy has developed throughout our history. New generations have — and Jefferson felt this was absolutely essential about American democracy, that every generation would have the opportunity to define the meaning of the declaration that fit their circumstances.

So that's one thing that makes me — gives me some optimism.

Judy Woodruff:

It's a good note to end on.

Sid Milkis:

Yes.

Judy Woodruff:

Professor Sid Milkis, thank you. Thank you very much.

Sid Milkis:

Oh, it's been an honor to be with you, Judy. Thank you.

Judy Woodruff:

It's been an honor to be here at the University of Virginia, where, earlier today, I took part in a program honoring my late colleague Jim Lehrer.

You can watch my conversation about how we at the "NewsHour" work to live up to the standards Jim set. That's at PBS.org/NewsHour.