McCarthy supporter on speaker deadlock: ‘I think this debate is actually good’

Geoff Bennett:

One supporter of Kevin McCarthy's bid for speaker is Congresswoman Lisa McClain of Michigan. She is the secretary of the House Republican Conference.

First elected to Congress in 2020, McClain voted against certifying Arizona and Pennsylvania electors for President Biden's victory and has denied the valid results of the election that year.

She joins us now from Capitol Hill.

And, Congresswoman, what do you say to Americans who have watched the drama unfold there in the House chamber and have real questions about whether or not the House Republican Conference is up to the task of governing, when they cannot, apparently, choose from one of their own members to serve as House speaker?

Rep. Lisa McClain (R-MI):

Well, here's what I say. And I have a little bit of a different take on this.

We have watched the past two years of dictatorial leadership by Nancy Pelosi, where nothing is debated, nothing is discussed. It is just one-party rule, where the speaker of the House makes the decisions, and whatever she says goes.

And now what you're seeing is, you see democracy working. Debate is healthy. Debate is good. Disagreement is not disloyalty. When we both debate, that gets us closer together. Really, it doesn't get us farther apart, because what happens when you debate and you disagree, you begin to give and take, and the conference becomes stronger.

And, really, that's what I see. I don't want a one-party dictatorial leader. I want to be able to have debate and discussion. So I have a little bit different take, where I actually think this debate is actually good.

Geoff Bennett:

I will tell you, though, that, in speaking to some of your Republican colleagues, there are people who say that Kevin McCarthy is a prodigious fund-raiser. He has an encyclopedic knowledge of districts. There are lots of Republicans who owe him their careers.

Yet there is a minority, apparently, a powerful minority, who say that they can't trust Kevin McCarthy, that he's not steadfast in his positions.

If he doesn't have the trust of the entire caucus, why does he deserve to be House speaker?

Rep. Lisa McClain:

Well, I liken this to a primary.

Kevin McCarthy won by more than 85 percent of the conference. So, in essence, he won the primary. And that's where we're at right now. Remember, we have — we have two — he has 202 votes; 202 is a heck of a lot closer to 218 than 20 is.

So, you're never going to get 100 percent agreement on anything, unless you have a straight-up dictator. And I don't think the American people want a straight-up dictator. So, again, I'm hopeful and I embrace these discussions and these debates.

Geoff Bennett:

Is there a House Republican who can get to 218 votes tomorrow afternoon, when the House reconvenes?

Rep. Lisa McClain:

Well, I think that's Kevin's agenda is, I think what Kevin will be doing is negotiating with the members that aren't voting for him right now.

And he's trying to figure out what negotiation, what do you need to get me to a yes — or to get them to a yes? That's what I believe will take place between tonight and tomorrow morning or tomorrow at noon.

And, again, I have been in business for 30 years. I have never had a deal where it's 100 percent me and zero you. That's no deal. In business and really in life, I get about 80 percent of what I want. You get about 80 percent of you want — of what you want. We both wish we got a little more, but, all in all, it's a good deal.

So I'm hopeful that, together, we can negotiate to get to 218, so we can get back to what the American people actually really want us to do. And that's get this country back on track, fix the problems at the border, fix the problems with inflation, fix the supply chain, become energy-independent again.

We need to get and solve these kitchen table issues. That's what America is depending on us for. And that's what I hope we can begin to do tomorrow.

Geoff Bennett:

Well, taking your point that debate is healthy, in what ways does this turmoil embolden those dissident Republicans — some have referred to them as those rebel Republicans — and make it much harder for anyone who emerges as House speaker to rally not just the entire House, but the Republican Conference, around some of those legislative priorities that you just outlined?

Rep. Lisa McClain:

Again, I think you're going to see some very fierce debate, very different than what we have seen the past two years, where it's been nothing but a cram-down.

I mean, we didn't even have — we would get the bills 12 hours before we had to vote on them. We didn't even have time to read the bills. So, to me, I think, with the 72-hour rule, the actual 72-hour rule, we will — it will enable us to have debate, which I don't think we're worse off for debating issues. I really don't.

Geoff Bennett:

What more could Leader McCarthy give these holdouts to get them to yes?

He's given them a lot, and, so far, it hasn't moved the needle. Is there anything between now and tomorrow afternoon, when the House reconvenes, that would make a difference?

Rep. Lisa McClain:

That, I don't know. And you would have to ask some of the holdouts for that. I really don't know what the specifics are.

One possibly is the vacate the chair. It's currently at five. I have heard some rumblings that they want it to be one. Others, I have heard it's more of deficit spending — or — excuse me — we want to make sure that we get our spending under control. That is a key issue.

But, really, at the end of the day, I think you need to ask the holdouts, what specifically do you need to get to a yes?

Geoff Bennett:

Congresswoman Lisa McClain, thanks so much for your time and for your insights. We appreciate it.

Rep. Lisa McClain:

Thank you.