Ohio town searches for answers months after toxic train derailment

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• Geoff Bennett:

  This past February, a Norfolk Southern train carrying hazardous chemicals derailed in the small Ohio village of East Palestine. Soon after the derailment, officials burned the toxic freight to avoid a possible explosion, sending a black cloud of smoke drifting ominously into the air.

  As residents returned to their homes days after the crash, many complained of rashes, sore throats, nausea, and headaches. It's now been over seven months. The cleanup of the derailment site is ongoing, and some residents tell us they're still concerned about the lingering effects on their health, the economic future of their community, and whether something like this could happen again.

  Joining us now to talk about those concerns is the CEO of Norfolk Southern, Alan Shaw.

  Thanks for coming in. It's good to see you again.

  Alan Shaw, President and CEO, Norfolk Southern: Geoff, it's a pleasure to be with you.

  Last time you and I were together, it was about seven months ago on the ground in East Palestine in the immediate aftermath. And at that point, I made the commitment that we were going to make it right, and we're keeping our promises. And I'm really proud of the progress we have made. I also understand there is a lot of more work to be done.

• Geoff Bennett:

  Well, on that point, seven months on, there are residents who say they are still suffering damaging symptoms. They want more testing. They want clearer assurances about the safety of their homes. They want their health care costs to be covered now and in the event that they develop cancer or some other serious health problem.

  What can you offer in the way of definitive guarantees?

• Alan Shaw:

  Yes.

  As you know, I go back multiple times a month. And when I'm there, I'm there to oversee our progress and the environmental remediation and our investment in the community to help it thrive. But I'm also there to listen. I'm there to sit down with the citizens and hear their concerns and hear what Norfolk Southern can do to help.

  And the three things that we really hear about are concerns about water testing, concerns about property evaluation and long-term health care. And so, just yesterday, we were able to make an announcement of a $4.3 million grant to enhance the city water system.

  And, next week, I'm pretty confident we're going to make an announcement on a long-term fund for property evaluation. And we're working with key stakeholders on issues associated with long-term health care. So we're listening and we're taking action.

• Geoff Bennett:

  Does Norfolk Southern have a full accounting of the chemicals that were spilled and the ones that were created during that controlled burn?

• Alan Shaw:

  And we certainly know what was on the consist of the train.

  It was important to note that, throughout the process, the U.S. EPA and the Ohio EPA had air testing and water testing up. And they have shown outside of the evacuation zone that the air was safe to breathe and the water safe to drink.

• Geoff Bennett:

  One of the concerns we heard the most about from folks in East Palestine is the time it's taking to do this remediation.

  Initially, it was thought that the cleanup could take a matter of weeks. It's now, as we have said, about seven months. One of the main roads there has been shut down. What is taking so long, and what's the expectation for when the work will be done?

• Alan Shaw:

  Yes, that's another thing I hear when I go back to the community.

  The folks want the environmental remediation to be complete and, frankly, they want Taggart Street to be opened. I understand that completely. As I noted, we're working under the oversight of the U.S. EPA. Right now, we firmly believe that the most intense phase of the environmental remediation will be done next month.

  But we also understand that our commitment is not done there, and we will continue to remediate the site, and we will continue to test and monitor.

• Geoff Bennett:

  Let's talk about rail safety, because the NTSB, which investigated the derailment, found that there was a Norfolk Southern employee who expressed concerns about the size of the train the day before the derailment.

  The train itself had two mechanical disruptions during its journey before it eventually derailed. And, of course, we now know it was caused by an overheated wheel bearing that wasn't picked up in time by the trackside sensors.

  What is Norfolk Southern doing to make sure that this will never happen again?

• Alan Shaw:

  Geoff, we have been really active.

  I immediately instructed my team to look for ways to enhance safety on Norfolk Southern. And, in March, we announced a six-point safety plan, which we're implementing. And I reached out to Admiral Kirk Donald, who used to run the Navy nuclear propulsion system. And I asked him to put together a team of experts with Navy nuclear experience and report directly to me as an independent consultant and help us enhance the safety culture at Norfolk Southern.

  And just yesterday, in full transparency, I released those findings from the Navy nuke team. And, right now, we're sitting down with them and mapping out a two-to-three-year road map for implementation. And I'm going to mail those results to every single one of Norfolk Southern's 20,000 employees, because I want 20,000 voices at Norfolk Southern advocating for rail safety.

• Geoff Bennett:

  Ohio's two senators, one Democrat, one Republican, introduced the Railway Safety Act this past spring, which would do a couple of things.

  It would strengthen notification. It would strengthen inspection requirements. It would also mandate a two-person onboard crew. Do you support that piece of legislation?

• Alan Shaw:

  Yes, there are many things that we support in the various railway safety bills that are in the House and in the Senate.

  And what you have seen for me is a vocal advocate for many of these provisions. And I'm taking a lead role in the industry in trying to advance bipartisan rail safety legislation.

• Geoff Bennett:

  Which ones do you think go too far? Which provisions do you think are unnecessary?

• Alan Shaw:

  We are — we're data-driven. And we look for science.

  And, at this point, I have not seen any link between crew size and railway safety. What I can tell you, things that make a lot of sense to me are additional training for first responders. And, frankly, they're the heroes in this whole situation. The first responders are the ones who devote their whole careers to protecting the communities in which we serve — we live — pardon me.

  I'm also for enhanced car safety standards and more research and development for hot box detectors. There's a lot of things that make perfect sense to enhance rail safety.

• Geoff Bennett:

  People will hear you say that and think it also makes common sense, perfect sense to have more crew on board, that the train, the two-mile-long, nearly-two-mile-long train in East Palestine had three crew members, one of whom I think was a trainee.

  But if that train had only had one crew member on it, as bad as it was, it could have been even worse in that community.

• Alan Shaw:

  What we haven't seen is a link between crew size and rail safety.

  But I am absolutely advocating for many of the provisions that are out there. I'm taking a leadership role in the industry on enhancing rail safety.

• Geoff Bennett:

  Final question.

  When I talk to folks who have been following what happened in East Palestine and who pay close attention to the ongoings in the rail industry, they say that rail carriers, for a long time, the industry has been self-regulated. For all this talk about government regulation, the industry itself has been self-regulated, and the big rail carriers want to keep it that way.

  Is that the case?

• Alan Shaw:

  Yes, we work very closely with our elected officials and with our regulatory agencies.

  But we understand the powerful role that rail plays as an economic growth engine in the U.S. economy. And we do a lot of things that are aligned with both sides of the aisle, including enhanced investment in manufacturing, high-paying union jobs, taking trucks off the highway, and sustainability.

  We understand our role, and we take safety very seriously.

• Geoff Bennett:

  Alan Shaw, CEO of Norfolk Southern, thanks for coming in. It's good to see you.

• Alan Shaw:

  Geoff, great to see you again. Thank you for your time.