Outgoing Republican congressman on how his party and U.S. politics changed

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• Judy Woodruff:

  Well, when the new session of Congress gavels in next week, dozens of lawmakers will not be returning to the chamber.

  Republican Rodney Davis is one of them. He's represented Illinois for the past 10 years, but is leaving after losing his primary race earlier this year.

  Lisa is back now with this conversation that she recently recorded with Davis about Congress and about the Republican Party.

• Lisa Desjardins:

  Congressman Rodney Davis of Illinois, thank you so much for joining me.

  Let's start with the future of your party and the decisions ahead for Congress. Right now, it's not clear that Kevin McCarthy will have the votes to be speaker. I wonder what you think of his future. And why is it that the future leadership is in doubt?

• Rep. Rodney Davis (R-IL):

  When I got to Congress, there was questions about whether John Boehner would get enough, get 218.

  Just two years ago, there were questions with a slim majority that Nancy Pelosi had, after losing seats in the 2020 election, whether or not she would get 218. In the end, it's either — it was either Nancy Pelosi, John Boehner, or whoever else.

  And there was no clear alternative. Kevin McCarthy will be the speaker of the House. He deserves to be the speaker of the House.

• Lisa Desjardins:

  Let's talk about the Republican Party in general.

  Obviously, you oppose many of President Biden's policies, but what do you think the Republican Party stands for right now?

• Rep. Rodney Davis:

  Well, the Republican Party has changed since I joined the Republican Party back as a teenager and as a college student.

  There was a lot more focus back then on fiscal issues, the fiscal responsibility. Remember, the blue-collar workers that were members of labor unions in the '80s and the '90s and the early 2000s, they were rock-solid Democrats. Those blue-collar workers are now Republicans.

  Many of those blue-collar workers voted against Barack Obama's policies in 2010. But President Trump nuclearized their support because he spoke directly to them. And many of their issues are not traditional — what would be considered traditional Republican issues.

  And you're going to see a change in the next Congress. I think corporate America is going to be surprised what a Republican oversight agenda looks like in our new majority, because it's going to be much different than the oversight agenda that they saw in the past.

• Lisa Desjardins:

  As you were saying, President Trump has been a very big part of the change in the Republican Party. And he is one of the reasons that you're not returning to office.

  He endorsed your primary opponent. I wonder what you learned about President Trump in that process and his supporters.

• Rep. Rodney Davis:

  I learned a lot about President Trump when I got to meet him and served with him. And we actually made some legislative progress together.

  So, I was a bit surprised when the former president came out and endorsed my opponent. But I have learned a lot about a lot of people in politics., nothing really surprises me in the end. But President Trump demands loyalty, and, in many cases, he doesn't give that same loyalty back.

• Lisa Desjardins:

  You voted against impeachment of former President Trump when that vote came to the House floor.

  But we have now learned so much more about what was happening in the White House, President Trump's role. Do you think he broke his oath of office?

• Rep. Rodney Davis:

  Well, that's not up to me to judge whether one breaks their oath of office.

  When somebody is sworn in to any office, it's their duty to serve their constituents. And I'm sure President Trump thought he was doing his duty to serve what he viewed as his constituents. He and I disagreed. I voted to certify the election.

  Now, President Trump, is he — is he personally responsible for what happened on January 6? I honestly don't think any one individual is personally responsible for inspiring that type of violence and hate, no more so than Nancy Pelosi and Bernie Sanders were responsible for a crazed gunman who screamed health care while firing at us, trying to kill us a few years ago on a baseball field in Alexandria, Virginia.

  I blame the people who committed those actions.

• Lisa Desjardins:

  You do have a special sort of perspective onto political violence, because you were at the Capitol on January 6, because you were on that baseball field in Alexandria, Virginia, when a gunman tried to assassinate you and nearly did kill your fellow Republican Steve Scalise.

  I wonder, did that change how you viewed your job?

• Rep. Rodney Davis:

  Very much so.

  And that's one thing I have tried to do is tone down the rhetoric, talk about bipartisanship, talk about where we agree on most things that we do in the Capitol. Unfortunately, you don't see that in the news media. You only see the differences.

• Lisa Desjardins:

  You are a Republican.

  I want to ask you, what is the Republican Party's responsibility for stoking hostility in this moment? And I know you have called out, for example, rhetoric on white nationalism.

  What is the party's responsibility in terms of allowing that to continue?

• Rep. Rodney Davis:

  The Republican Party doesn't allow white nationalism to continue. That narrative that's trying to be created is demonstrably false and very offensive to Republicans like me.

  In the end, rhetoric that is heated from both sides, where you had Bernie Sanders and Nancy Pelosi talking about Republicans killing people because we wanted to fix a broken health care system, again, they're going to use their rhetoric that they think is going to gain them support for legislation, gain them support for electoral wins.

  I don't agree with it. It's not something I use.

• Lisa Desjardins:

  But do you think that is baseless?

• Rep. Rodney Davis:

  Yes.

• Lisa Desjardins:

  There are — there are — but there are examples of Republicans, elected members of Congress using antisemitic rhetoric.

  Your own primary opponent, you criticized for using what you said, white nationalist language.

• Rep. Rodney Davis:

  Well, we want to talk about antisemitism,we have some Democratic members of Congress that have — have used antisemitic language.

  This isn't — this isn't related just to the Republican Party. I call out bad behavior no matter if somebody is a Republican or a Democrat, because that's who I am.

• Lisa Desjardins:

  Now I can get to your vast experience.

  You entered the halls of Congress in the '90s as a staffer. I want to ask you, what's changed about Congress?

• Rep. Rodney Davis:

  Congress has changed a lot.

  Unfortunately, now I spend a lot more time as an elected official talking about what somebody may or may have read, social media, may have seen in the news media that's just not true. And that's changed a lot.

  And I think — I think, overall, overall, the news media has changed. Remember, we have a lot more people that live and get their news and they breathe their news on social media. And I think it's having a tremendous, tremendous negative effect on people's faith in government.

• Lisa Desjardins:

  Congressman Rodney Davis of Illinois, thank you so much for your time.

• Rep. Rodney Davis:

  Thanks, Lisa.