Poland’s ambassador to the U.S. on war in Ukraine and the refugee crisis

Judy Woodruff:

One neighboring country that shares a 300-mile border with Ukraine is Poland. More than two million Ukrainian refugees have sought safe haven in Poland over just the past 3-plus weeks. Poland is also providing military assistance to Ukraine.

And so how does this front-line country feel about the war next door?

For that, we turn to Mark Meadows. He is Poland's ambassador to the United States.

Ambassador Marek Magierowski, welcome to the "NewsHour."

Marek Magierowski, Polish Ambassador to the United States: Good afternoon.

Judy Woodruff:

President Biden is going to Brussels this week. He's then going to your country, to Poland. What do you hope will come out of those meetings?

Marek Magierowski:

I'm expecting a reassertion of all our steadfast ironclad alliance, in terms of our political relations, but also in the military field.

We have always been very — very close to each other. I believe that, within NATO, it's very hard to define two countries which would be cooperating so closely, especially in recent weeks. So I believe that both presidents, President Biden and President Duda, will reconfirm this ironclad alliance which has existed between our countries for so many years.

Judy Woodruff:

But what does that alliance mean right now? In particular, we know your government is providing support to the Ukrainian military. Weapons are flowing from Poland into Ukraine.

At what point does your government worry? What do you — do you worry that it's good to be helping your neighbor, but you don't want to provoke Vladimir Putin to come after Poland?

Marek Magierowski:

We have been right about contemporary Russia and Putin's intentions all along. And nobody listened.

Now we are fully vindicated, alongside our neighbors from the Baltic countries, Romania, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, and many others on the eastern flank who have always been warning about — against Russia's growing aggressiveness and near imperial ambitions.

Now we can see in plain view those barbaric acts of terrorism actually in Ukraine. By the way, a few days ago, a new institution was established in Poland named after a Raphael Lemkin, a famous Polish lawyer and diplomat who coined the term genocide. And that institution is now gathering evidence of war crimes committed by Russian troops in Ukraine.

Judy Woodruff:

So, how much can your government — how much more can your government possibly do for Ukraine, and not provoke Vladimir Putin? Or how much of a concern is…

Marek Magierowski:

This is a very important point, because we have to be very cautious.

And I can only echo the words of, for example, the NATO secretary-general and many other Western political leaders who are warning against hypothetical potential escalation, in light of the Russian aggression against Ukraine.

We should keep delivering state-of-the-art weaponry to Ukraine. The American administration is now talking about transferring long-range defense systems to Ukraine, which is a very good sign and a very positive development. Poland is assisting also Ukraine in this humanitarian crisis, although Poland is not — our reaction was really exceptional.

And that outpouring of solidarity and sympathy towards Ukrainians was really remarkable. But Poland is filling up. So, we are — now many mayors of Polish cities are now in talks with their counterparts in Europe about the possibility of relocation of those refugees.

But we are doing our utmost. We are doing what we really can to ease up the tension and to provide humanitarian assistance to all those, as you have rightly noted, more than two million refugees who have already arrived in Poland.

Judy Woodruff:

And I want to ask about that.

But I also want to ask you about — your prime minister has proposed a NATO peacekeeping mission of some nature into Ukraine. But we also know that NATO pledged back in the late 1990s, in 1997, that it would not base permanent troops in Eastern Europe.

So are you advocating for NATO to change that policy?

Marek Magierowski:

Yes, you're talking about Russia-NATO Founding Act, which has already been violated by Russia, not by NATO.

And, of course, we can argue about the definition of the substantial troops on the territory of the so-called new NATO member states. I would like to stress very clearly we are not new NATO member states. We are just NATO member states. And according to the Article 5 of the Washington Treaty, we are obliged, both Poland and the Czech Republic and Germany and France and Spain and all the other member states of this alliance, to defend each other.

So, if we see that aggression on the part of one of our neighbor — neighbors, because Russia is one of Poland's neighbors, we have to be prepared for an escalation, for every plausible scenario.

Judy Woodruff:

Just quickly, do you have any more information about the nature of any peacekeeping force?

Marek Magierowski:

It is a preliminary concept, a very inchoate idea, not even a plan, an idea. And I believe that it could be one of the topics that the European leaders and NATO leaders will discuss during the upcoming summit in Brussels.

Judy Woodruff:

Something else I quickly want to ask you about, and that is the reporting that everyone knew just a few days ago Poland was prepared to send Soviet era MiGs to a U.S. NATO base in Germany that would then be transferred to Ukraine.

Marek Magierowski:

Yes. Yes.

Judy Woodruff:

The U.S. vetoed that.

Why didn't Poland bring that up first with the United States before announcing it?

Marek Magierowski:

We came up with a very specific proposal, because we were under immense pressure also on the part of the American public opinion.

But you have to remember one thing. This is one-third of our arsenal of combat aircraft. And we could not just deplete this arsenal unilaterally and voluntarily, especially in this troubling situation.

Judy Woodruff:

But why — is that deal completely dead now?

Marek Magierowski:

The American administration has rejected this proposal.

I think we can move on and now do everything we can do in order to keep delivering weapons to Ukraine and to help the Ukrainians defend themselves against this unprovoked invasion.

Judy Woodruff:

Well, everybody wants to know how that's — how that's going to happen.

But just quickly to the important subject of refugees, your country, as we said, has taken in more than two million Ukrainians. How long can Poland sustain this?

Marek Magierowski:

I think it requires a common effort to resettle, to relocate those refugees across Europe.

We are willing and ready to absorb even more waves of refugees. By the way, there was fertile ground for the absorption of Ukrainian immigrants because, before the war, we had roughly 1.5 million Ukrainian migrants who lived and worked in Poland. And they were integrating into the Polish society smoothly. And I believe this is what is happening right now.

Of course, we would like them to return to their homes, as they would like to return to their homeland, after the war.

Judy Woodruff:

But — and your country expects that you can sustain this for as long as you need to, if they need…

Marek Magierowski:

It's hard to predict.

Of course, we expect more migrants and other countries ready to absorb them, to admit them, also in Polish homes, because, as you know, so far there has been no refugee camps in Poland. An overwhelming majority of those families who fled Ukraine have been hosted by Polish families in their homes.

Judy Woodruff:

It's been a remarkable scene.

One other thing, Mr. Ambassador, I want to ask you about. You mentioned a moment ago that Poland's been on the front line of Eastern Europe in standing up to Russia. However, it's also known that your government for — in recent years, seemed to be wanting to stay on good working terms with Vladimir Putin, was opposing many elements of European unity.

Does this war in Ukraine change that? Can Poland ever do business as usual again with Russia?

Marek Magierowski:

It has changed — it has not changed our attitude towards Russia, but I believe it has changed the attitude of many other Western countries, like Germany, like France, like Italy, towards Russia.

I don't think there is a shred of a possibility of returning to business as usual with Russia after this war.

Judy Woodruff:

Mr. Ambassador, Marek Magierowski, thank you very much for being with us.

Marek Magierowski:

Thanks a lot.

Judy Woodruff:

We appreciate it.