Rep. Zoe Lofgren on the Jan. 6 probe and why it’s ‘far more serious’ than Watergate

Read the Full Transcript

• Judy Woodruff:

  The Select Congressional Committee Investigating the January 6 Capitol attack today heard from the closest witness to former President Donald Trump yet, his son-in-law, Jared Kushner.

  Representative Zoe Lofgren, a Democrat from California, is a member of that committee. And I spoke with her a short time ago.

  Congresswoman Lofgren, thank you very much for joining us.

  The January 6 Committee today heard from Jared Kushner. What can you tell us about what he had to say to the committee, or, maybe equally important, what he didn't say?

• Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-CA):

  Well, as you know, Judy, it's the policy of the committee not to discuss the testimony of the witnesses without a vote of the committee, which has not occurred.

  So, I'm sorry. I can't get into that with you.

• Judy Woodruff:

  Does his testimony, in your view, help the committee reach its goal, which is understanding what happened on January the 6th of last year?

• Rep. Zoe Lofgren:

  Well, as you know, we have heard from hundreds, hundreds of witnesses, some very close to the former president, some in his closest inner circle, others not as close.

  And we're piecing together the information. As you're aware, there have been some high-profile individuals who have refused to testify, which is wrong. But we're going to great lengths to put together the facts, and then we will be able to lay it out to the American people.

• Judy Woodruff:

  Well, speaking of phone calls, now that we know that there was almost an eight-hour gap in the official phone records provided to the committee from what — what was going on inside the Trump White House on January the 6th, and now learn the president made at least one phone call during that time, to Utah Senator Mike Lee, how does that change the work of the committee and what you have to do now?

• Rep. Zoe Lofgren:

  Well, we know from public reporting there were many phone calls made during that time frame.

  For example, it's been publicly reported, and certainly not denied, that Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy spoke to the former president in that time frame, along with many others.

  So, we know that phone calls were made. They should have been recorded on the log. They were not. And so we intend to find out what calls were made and piece together the truth. It's very disappointing that the laws that require these logs were not followed in this case.

• Judy Woodruff:

  Well, we know the committee's commission is not to pursue a criminal investigation, but does the fact that you're not getting the whole picture from the records being provided change materially the work the committee has to do?

• Rep. Zoe Lofgren:

  Well, there are other ways to find out what phone calls were made, and we're doing our best to do that.

  As I say, life would be easier for the committee if every person who is asked to give us information did so readily, as the law requires. That hasn't always occurred. It would be easier for the committee if the former president had fully complied with the Presidential Records Act, which, unfortunately, has apparently not occurred as well.

  But we will piece together — it's our intent to find out everything about this whole situation and report it to the American public, and so everyone can understand the threat that we posed and I would say still face to our democratic republic.

• Judy Woodruff:

  Congresswoman Lofgren, you were a young staffer in the office of then-Congressman Don Edwards, a member of the House Judiciary Committee, during the time of Watergate, when there were impeachment proceedings against President Richard Nixon.

  One of the things you were dealing with was an 18-and-a-half-minute gap in the audio recording in the Oval Office. How do you compare the gap you're dealing with now with what happened back then?

• Rep. Zoe Lofgren:

  I will just say that what has unfolded here, I think, is more serious than the threat that was posed by Watergate to our country.

• Judy Woodruff:

  And why do you say that?

• Rep. Zoe Lofgren:

  Well, I think the threat to the democratic republic was far, far more serious than in the case of water Watergate. Just my opinion.

• Judy Woodruff:

  Well, and let me ask you, in connection with that, we interviewed on the "NewsHour" just a few days ago Congressman Adam Schiff, who is on the January 6 Committee with you.

  He made a point of saying that the Justice Department now needs to move, in his words, with alacrity to pursue investigations against those for whom criminal referrals have been voted out of Congress.

  Do you share the concern that he expressed that he's worried that Justice and the attorney general may be worried about wading into controversy, rather than pursuing an investigation?

• Rep. Zoe Lofgren:

  Well, the truth is, we don't know what the Department of Justice is doing, and it's really not the regular order for the Department of Justice to report to us. That's not the way they're supposed to act.

  However, we did refer the Mark Meadows matter to the DOJ for prosecution. We didn't do it lightly. And the former chief of staff has taken the position — and there is no authority for this in the case law — that he didn't have to come in and answer the questions.

  Now, if there's a privilege that he wants to assert, he can come in and assert that privilege. And there may be some cases where that privilege would be warranted. But, clearly, in case where's he has already talked about matters, he's waived the privilege. When he was talking to state legislators, not the former president, that wasn't privileged.

  So, it's — what he has done is completely lawless. And I just don't understand what is taking the Department of Justice so long to actually take some action relative to this. It's — hopefully, they are doing some work. We certainly are.

• Judy Woodruff:

  And is there any way of conveying that to the Justice Department, other than speaking out as you are right now in public?

• Rep. Zoe Lofgren:

  No.

  I mean, they have to make their own decisions. I understand that. They cannot and should not take orders from the legislative branch. But, in this case, Congress and, by extension, the American people are the victim of misconduct on the part of Mr. Meadows. And so we have stature, as the victim of this crime, to complain. And we are.

• Judy Woodruff:

  Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren, who is a member of the House Select Committee on January 6, thank you very much.

• Rep. Zoe Lofgren:

  Thank you. Take care.