A look at the challenge of dealing with mental illness while in the public eye

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• Geoff Bennett:

  Pennsylvania Senator John Fetterman announced today that he is in the hospital after voluntarily seeking treatment for clinical depression.

  The senator is still recovering from a stroke last May. His office says he's often experienced depression, but that it became severe in recent weeks. Millions of Americans struggle with depression, but few politicians ever share their stories publicly.

  Jason Kander is one of those who has. He stepped away from his mayoral campaign in 2018, after acknowledging he'd struggled in silence with depression and PTSD for nearly a dozen years.

  Jason Kander, thank you so much for being with us.

  And you praised Senator Fetterman in a tweet today, saying that his decision to be transparent and seeking help is awesome leadership.

  Tell me more about that, why the public acknowledgement is so important.

  Jason Kander (D), Former Missouri Secretary Of State: Well, look, so many of us tell ourselves stories. It doesn't matter whether you served in the military or whether you didn't. It doesn't matter.

  We tell ourselves stories about how whatever we're going through doesn't measure up and doesn't count, right? I mean, I can tell you that one of the benefits of having been public about my own mental health challenges is that I'm a very self-safe place for people to come and talk to somebody and say, here's what I have been going through.

  So what that affords me is the knowledge that, like, everybody is going through stuff. And, at the same time, not everybody feels the license, the permission slip to actually deal with that stuff.

  And so whether you are a person that people know, like John Fetterman, or whether you're just somebody who the people in your office know, if you are transparent and public and open with people in your life, or people who are — know who you are, and you say, this is what I'm going through, this is what I'm doing about it, that is contagious in a good way.

  It causes people to feel that they can give themselves permission to get help. And that saves lives.

• Geoff Bennett:

  You talked about the benefits that you experienced as a public figure navigating this issue.

  To be clear, your experience is not Senator Fetterman's experience. But what about the flip side of that? How did being in the public eye, how did that compound things, complicate things for you?

• Jason Kander:

  Yes.

  Well, for one thing, it, I think, for a long time kept me from going to the VA to get help, because I — it was one of many factors that caused me to think I — well, I'm a politician, so I can't be out here admitting this vulnerability.

  But, eventually, I did. And then there was an interesting aspect of it. Like, look, when you're going through something, every day is not terrible, right? And, in fact, when you're going to therapy, gradually, a lot of the days start to be better than the day before.

  But what the public knows is the last thing that they heard, the last thing they saw, which was, you're going through this thing. So you could be out at the grocery store, and you're feeling pretty good that day, and then somebody takes it upon themselves, very well-intentioned, to be the person who convinces you to feel better.

  And then they say something that's kind of awkward, but well-intentioned. And that can be a strange feeling to feel like everybody you meet is now seeing you through this lens of having this mental health issue that you have either been dealing with or at that point may have dealt with.

  And it kind of makes you feel like people see you as very fragile. And that's something that — look, I'm very confident that Senator Fetterman, like most Americans that go to get treatment for this, just like any other ailment, any physical ailment, I'm sure that that's going to go very well, and that he's going to be back to feeling like himself.

  But what he will reckon with is, when he meets new people or when people regard him, there will be a period of time where they see him through this lens and through this knowledge. But he will learn to navigate that. And he will probably, I would imagine, come to take pride in the idea that he can be sort of an example of getting better, which encourages other people to go get help.

• Geoff Bennett:

  More than 50 percent of Americans will be diagnosed with a mental illness over the course of their lifetime, according to the CDC.

  What lessons have you learned from your own journey that might help out others?

• Jason Kander:

  I have learned a lot of lessons.. I wrote a book about it, and which — which I'm happy to plug.

  But one of, I think, the most important lessons that I would share here is that it's not a contest, that whatever you have been through or haven't been through that have led you to the place where you need some help, it doesn't really matter how you got here.

  One of the things I think is so important about what Senator Fetterman is doing here is that, while I got a lot of praise for being public about it, also, our society sort of gives guys like me permission, right? Like, I'm a combat veteran. There's a certain expectation now that somebody like me might have this problem, and there's less judgment, I think, than somebody who is not in this very particular group that society seems to have given a special permission slip culturally to have a mental health problem that they need to overcome.

  And so somebody like Senator Fetterman doing this is really important, because I can tell you that so many people come up to me all the time, and they will express some thing that they have been through or something, and they will say, but I didn't go to war or anything.

  And I'm always like, that doesn't matter. It's not relevant. What my brain experienced and what your brain experienced, they — my brain doesn't know what you're brain experienced. So it really doesn't matter. Trauma is trauma.

  Senator Fetterman, whether it's clinical depression that he's had for a long time that is like any other ailment that he needs to treat, or whether it's related to the trauma of having a stroke last year, or it's a mix of the two, fine. It doesn't matter. You don't need a permission slip. You don't need to justify it. If it's something that you struggle with, go and treat it.

  And the last thing I'd say about it is, I think I have made a much greater impact on the world since going to get help than I did prior to it. And I — that, when I think about politicians who — and Senator Fetterman is not the only one now — who have announced that they have gone to get help for some sort of mental health issue, look, I think about the fact — like, what you just said, over 50 percent of people have had these challenges.

  I think the number is probably higher than that. Look, if we're going to have people in leadership positions, whether in public office or in the corporate world or whatever, I would just rather they have dealt with their stuff, because I live under the assumption that almost all of us have stuff.

  And I'd rather have people in charge who have dealt with that stuff than people who are suppressing that stuff and not dealing with it.

• Geoff Bennett:

  Jason Kander, thanks so much for the thoughtful conversation. Appreciate you.

• Jason Kander:

  Thank you, Geoff.