DOJ asks whether Trump still has more sensitive documents at other properties

Geoff Bennett:

We have new information about the classified documents found at former President Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago property in Florida. And there are new questions about whether all of the sensitive materials taken from the White House have been returned. To discuss the latest developments, I'm joined by Neal Katyal, former Acting us Solicitor General. It's good to have you with us.

Neal Katyal, former Acting U.S. Solicitor General: Thanks for having me, Geoff.

Geoff Bennett:

So, the DOJ, as you know, is again asking Trump's lawyers to return all of the sensitive classified documents. This is of course, after the FBI already retrieved 1000s of documents from Mar-a-Lago back in August with their search. Would the DOJ be asking this if they didn't know for sure that Trump still had classified documents in his possession?

Neal Katyal:

I don't think they need to know for sure, Geoff, but I think they must have some pretty good and indicia that Donald Trump to this day still is maintaining and holding very sensitive documents that are either classified or otherwise, National Defense Information. We already know that Trump has held on to a whole bunch of very highly sensitive documents involving human source information, like who our spies are, and other governments, perhaps nuclear information. You know, we know it includes other things that are classified, but that are sensitive, like, you know, Donald Trump's letters to the North Korean leadership and the like. All of this, you know, I used to be a national security adviser at the Justice Department, all of this is information, I couldn't even like just look at in my office at the Justice Department, it had to be such a sensitive place. The idea that you could bring it to your house in Florida or your club in North, in New Jersey, or Trump Tower in Manhattan is, boggles the mind.

Geoff Bennett:

Well, given that, I mean, why can't the DOJ indict with what they already have? And based on your experience, what could come next? Could we be looking at another search of one of his other properties?

Neal Katyal:

Yes, to all of the above. So, if this were anyone else, there would have already been an indictment at this point. The evidence is overwhelming, not just that Trump held on — had these documents, but that he held on to them. And he told his lawyers that he had turned over everything. And they were supposed to certify that when that was obviously not true, because the search warrant was granted and executed after Trump's lawyers certified, everything was turned over. And lo and behold, they found hundreds and hundreds of pages of highly sensitive national security information afterwards.

So, I do think right now, the Justice Department does have overwhelming evidence that would permit them to indict. I suspect what's going on in their minds is, well, we could do it now. But why don't we just try and get a complete picture before we do the indictment. You can always supersede an indictment with more information later on. But I think what they're thinking is, you know, let's try and, you know, dot our I's and cross our T's first. But I do not look at this and think this is something that Merrick Garland could look the other way on and not indict. Because if it were anyone else in this country, that indictment what is a certainty.

Geoff Bennett:

Let's talk a bit more about the Trump legal team because I know just based on my own reporting that the legal team is deeply divided over how to handle the latest request to turn over documents. There are some who have advocated for cooperation while there are others who want to take a more adversarial stance. The lawyer who has sort of pushed in favor of cooperation has been increasingly sidelined based on the reporting. So, what does that say to you about the direction the Trump team is taking?

Neal Katyal:

Well, I think Donald Trump always has a difficult time hiring quality lawyers. And it's not just because he doesn't pay them, but it's because he asks them to do things that put them in legal jeopardy and, you know, almost every attorney that Trump has hired has had to hire their own attorneys, leading to the joke that MAGA is not what Trump thinks it stands for. It's making attorneys, you know, get attorneys. And it is, you know, and we see it in this Mar-a-Lago investigation with at least a couple of the attorneys that Trump has hired now having to hire their own counsel, because they are targets of a federal or at least subjects of a federal criminal investigation that's looking into whether they lied to federal investigators.

So, you know, there is a very complex determination that should be made here, that I think every attorney that I know, if they were representing Donald Trump would say, look, let's fall on our sword. Let's go and say, I Donald Trump made a mistake. I'm holding all these documents and basically beg for forgiveness. Instead, Trump rewards what he always rewards, which is just, you know, adversarial fighters who are fighting for no good reason, Geoff. And like, here's a really good illustration. Trump orchestrated this whole with his lawyers, this whole, go get a special master appointed, try and stop the criminal investigation. But what happened, you got this special master, special master told him what he didn't want to hear. And the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit, our nation's second highest court has flatly rejected all of Trump's demands here. And as said, everything in the investigation thus far appears to be in good faith and Trump's rights are being violated. So far from stopping the investigation, Trump's adversarial tactics have led to now a court of appeals decision that blesses the investigation into Donald Trump. And that court of appeals decision had two different judges on it out of the three that were appointed by none other than Donald Trump himself.

Geoff Bennett:

Neal Katyal, thanks so much, as always, for your insights. I appreciate you.

Neal Katyal:

Thank you.