Former Russian diplomat on Putin’s ambitions as war in Ukraine rages on

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• Judy Woodruff:

  Over the past week, the Russian government began accusing Ukraine and preparing to use a dirty bomb, an explosive device that would spew radioactive material. Russia also began its annual nuclear exercise this week and threatened to shoot down satellites that are helping Ukraine's military.

  Nick Schifrin gets a unique perspective on Russia's latest moves.

• Nick Schifrin:

  Judy, this year, we have interviewed countless Ukrainian, American and other foreign officials about the war in Ukraine. Many of them have had their own assessments about the inner workings of the Kremlin and Russian foreign policy.

  Tonight, an assessment from within the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Boris Bondarev had a 20-year career as a Russian diplomat, first in Asia, and then focused on disarmament and arms control. But, this May, he resigned, calling the invasion of Ukraine — quote — "an unspeakable act of cruelty."

  He wrote that in a new "Foreign Affairs" article titled: "The Sources of Russian Misconduct: A Diplomat Defects From the Kremlin."

  And Boris Bondarev joins me now.

  Welcome to the "NewsHour."

  As I just said, you had a 20-year career. You write about some of the concerns you had about Russian foreign policy and actions within the ministry for many years. So, why did you decide to resign after this further invasion of Ukraine?

• Boris Bondarev, Former Russian Diplomat:

  I realized on February 24 this year that, since my country invaded Ukraine, our neighbor, I realized that I didn't want to be any further associated with the Russian government or with the Russian policies.

  I believe that this war is the gravest crime perpetrated by President Putin against Russia, Russian people, and prospects for my country in the future.

• Nick Schifrin:

  You say that a few dozen diplomats have quietly left the Foreign Ministry, but you acknowledge you're still the only one to publicly break from Moscow.

  Why do you still think that you're the only one, even eight months after this war began?

• Boris Bondarev:

  So, it's not a matter of pride for me to be, like, the only one for now.

  And, unfortunately, many, many Russian diplomats are still blindly, blindly believing in anything that President Putin or Minister Lavrov or any other high officials would tell them. It's quite regretful.

• Nick Schifrin:

  Let's talk about that blind faith in leadership.

  You write the Ministry of Foreign Affairs discouraged independent thought. And you say that the war is a demonstration of how decisions made in echo chambers can backfire.

  What do you mean?

• Boris Bondarev:

  So, all of the decision-makers have only that information that is reported to them.

  And this information is quite different from what is going on in reality, because nobody wants to displease them. Everybody wants to say something pleasant, something nice, even if it doesn't correspond to reality, just because to make themselves more secure and to help better career prospects. Nobody now dares to say that the leadership is wrong about anything.

• Nick Schifrin:

  Over the last week, we have heard from Putin and some of his senior officials suggesting that Ukraine was somehow planning to attack its own territory with a dirty bomb, using conventional explosives to spread radiation.

  Some U.S. officials believe that this is a cover story for Russia preparing to perhaps attack Ukraine with a dirty bomb. Why do you think that Russian officials have brought up the possibility of a dirty bomb in Ukraine?

• Boris Bondarev:

  I think that could be a disinformation campaign in order to derail the trust between Ukraine and the Western partners.

  And, also, we couldn't — we cannot exclude that this is a kind of a preparatory work to justify the eventual use of nuclear weapons by the Russian Federation. But I would like to think that we are not still at that point yet.

  I believe that, if he has a understanding that any possible use of nuclear weapons would have a very devastating retaliation, he would think twice. If we continue to say that we don't want to provoke Mr. Putin from using nuclear weapons or we don't want to escalate and we don't want to follow his escalation game, we are seriously risking to encourage Putin into his further nuclear blackmail, which may eventually lead us to the point when he will have to use these nuclear weapons, really.

• Nick Schifrin:

  Jake Sullivan, the national security adviser, has communicated with his equivalent in the Kremlin privately and said this publicly. There would be — quote — "catastrophic consequences' for Russia if the Kremlin did use a nuclear weapon.

  Do you think that message has been heard?

• Boris Bondarev:

  I believe this message must have been heard, and — because, for now, we don't see — as far as I can judge, we don't see any signs of Russia preparing any kind of nuclear strikes.

  But I would — I would like also to add that this understanding should also be shared and affirmed by other countries, not only the United States and European countries, but also by China, India, and other very important, important regional and global players.

• Nick Schifrin:

  Ukraine says that, as of right now, it doesn't want to negotiate with Vladimir Putin. And you seem to agree in your essay. You say that Russia would use any cease-fire or any stopping of the war to rearm.

  And you write the Putin must experience a — quote — "comprehensive rout in Ukraine."

  Why?

• Boris Bondarev:

  As long as he's still winning the war or he can present it that he is winning the war, he will still keep power and his course of war of aggression will be forever.

  It's not about Putin himself. It's about changing this course of aggression. It's about changing the course of our policy, which would lead to change the government system. And that means that the entire political regime impersonated by Mr. Putin must go.

  And only the major military defeat in Ukraine, in my mind, can make people realize that enough is enough.

• Nick Schifrin:

  Boris Bondarev, thank you very much.

• Boris Bondarev:

  Thank you.