New book ‘Differ We Must’ confronts political division with lessons from Lincoln

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• Geoff Bennett:

  There is little doubt the country is divided over a host of issues, but lessons can be learned from examining the past.

  And NPR's Steve Inskeep did just that. The result is a new book, which he recently discussed with Amna, titled "Differ We Must: How Lincoln Succeeded in a Divided America."

• Amna Nawaz:

  Steve Inskeep, welcome back to the "NewsHour."

  Steve Inskeep, Author, "Differ We Must: How Lincoln Succeeded in a Divided America": Oh, it's an honor to be here. Thank you so much.

• Amna Nawaz:

  So, this man's been dead over 150 years. You found a fresh and fascinating way to look at his life.

• Steve Inskeep:

  Thank you.

• Amna Nawaz:

  Specifically, 16 different encounters with 16 different people, all of whom he disagreed with.

  Why did you want to frame this, this way?

• Steve Inskeep:

  I started out wanting to get a sense of the diversity of America, and that time when, of course, white men had all the power.

  And so I was looking for people who were different from him, who differed from him. And then I became — it became apparent to me that the essence of the story and what's most relevant now is disagreement, is dealing with people who were on a different page.

  And I thought that I would illuminate the country and also get a sense of Abraham Lincoln. He's super famous, of course, and beloved, but at the same time he's kind of a mysterious character. And I thought I would sense who he really was by seeing him in action.

• Amna Nawaz:

  The title comes from a letter that Lincoln wrote to a dear friend of his.

• Steve Inskeep:

  A letter, yes.

• Amna Nawaz:

  Tell me the story behind that.

• Steve Inskeep:

  Yes, Joshua Speed was from Lincoln's home state of Kentucky, a slave state where slavery was legal at that time.

  And unlike Lincoln, who grew up poor, Speed grew up rich in a slaveholding family on a farm with more than 50 enslaved people working there. When they became adults, Speed told Lincoln: "I'm opposed to slavery. I don't agree with slavery."

  But Lincoln wrote him a letter saying: You're not really serious about that. You're not voting that way. You have this general opinion, but you're not really serious.

  But then he goes on to say to this guy, who was his lifelong best friend: "If, for this, we must differ, differ we must."

  And rather than ostracizing or shunning this guy, who was wrong, he signed the letter, "Your friend forever."

  And it's a powerful anecdote for me, not because it's great to kiss and make up with somebody who was wrong, but because Lincoln ended up getting value out of that relationship. When the Civil War came and Lincoln was president, Speed was on the Union side and helped ensure the loyalty of his state of Kentucky.

• Amna Nawaz:

  You begin — the first chapter is with an encounter with a man named Joshua Giddings, whom you label the provocateur.

  It's January 1849. Slavery was still being practiced in Washington, D.C. Giddings, who was a congressman from Ohio, was someone Lincoln, a congressman from Illinois then, asked to review a bill that he's drafted. Why is this encounter important?

• Steve Inskeep:

  I find the difference here fascinating, because Giddings, as I said, was a provocateur. He had powerful religious convictions.

  And he argued against slavery in Congress, where it was supposed to be for many years off-limits even to discuss. That's how powerful the slave interests were in the country at the time. Giddings made a lot of noise. Lincoln was not a guy who was making noise about these things. He was somebody who was making friends with everybody, talking about other issues.

  But it became apparent that the two of them could collaborate on slavery, because, even though Lincoln had a different approach, they had the same basic beliefs. And they did work together and ultimately failed, a very interesting effort, to abolish slavery in the District of Columbia by getting even more conservative people than Lincoln, along with Giddings, the radical, to be on the same page.

• Amna Nawaz:

  How did he do it? What were the strategies he employed?

• Steve Inskeep:

  Well, he's friendly with everybody. He's a storyteller. He's telling jokes, but he's not always telling everything that he knows.

  He would not lie to anybody, but he would give selective truths. He had a friend who said of Lincoln that he would be so open and candid as to give the impression that he had disclosed everything, when, in reality, he had disclosed nothing.

• Amna Nawaz:

  You cover as well his first face-to-face meeting with Frederick Douglass…

• Steve Inskeep:

  Yes.

• Amna Nawaz:

  … which takes place in August of 1863.

  Why was that important to understanding Lincoln?

• Steve Inskeep:

  This is one of the great meetings in American history because it's two of the greatest Americans of the century.

  And in this case, they had a disagreement with each other. Lincoln was president, had issued the Emancipation Proclamation, freeing the enslaved people of Confederate rebels. And many of them had become Union soldiers.

  But Frederick Douglass, who had helped to recruit those Black soldiers, knew they were receiving unequal treatment. They weren't getting paid the same as white men. They weren't being treated the same as white men or promoted the same as white men.

  And he effectively came to Washington to object, to protest, to say to Lincoln: Why did you make a liar out of me? I recruited these men by saying they would be fighting for equality and that they would get equal treatment. And they're not.

  And it's an incredible meeting, because Lincoln admitted what had been done. He said: They're not receiving equal treatment, and that's because of politics. We have a lot of white men who would resist employing them as soldiers at all. And so I'm getting all I can for now, and we will try to fix the rest of it later, which, in fact, he did.

  Black men ultimately did get equal pay. So these were two men who disagreed, often publicly. Douglass publicly excoriated Lincoln again and again, but, in private, they could work together, and they were pulling the boat in the same direction.

• Amna Nawaz:

  The term politician carries a very negative connotation.

• Steve Inskeep:

  Yes.

• Amna Nawaz:

  Lincoln, you say, was an unapologetic politician.

• Steve Inskeep:

  Yes, it was what he did, and he was proud of it. But he realized that, in politics, he would not survive, he would not succeed unless he appealed to people's interest and their self-interest.

  And even when he talked about slavery to a white audience, he was trying to tell them, this is why it is bad for you if slavery spreads. You are in the free labor system. Slavery competes with you. You do not want slavery to spread.

  He was not saying, have sympathy for the poor Black man, although he certainly did have that sympathy. But he was telling voters, it's in your interest to do the right thing. He was trying to align people's interests with high moral purpose. And that's what he had to do to succeed.

• Amna Nawaz:

  The book is "Differ We Must." The author is Steve Inskeep.

  Steve, thank you so much for being here. Always a pleasure to talk to you.

• Steve Inskeep:

  Oh, great to be here. Thank you.