Tamara Keith and Amy Walter on the Buffalo shooting and the dangers of racist conspiracy theories

Judy Woodruff:

Days after the massacre in Buffalo, the response from political leaders has turned not to the usual conversation on guns, but to the power of the racist ideology that fuels attacks like this one.

Lisa Desjardins is here with more.

Lisa Desjardins:

Judy, for the political response to this tragedy, as well as a look ahead to some critical primary races tomorrow, I'm joined by our always thoughtful political Monday team.

That is Amy Walter of The Cook Political Report With Amy Walter and Tamara Keith of NPR. Politics Monday is here.

Let's start off with this, another unspeakable shooting. And some people here in Washington especially are looking at the words of some Republicans, including this from Elise Stefanik, the representative who is in House Republican leadership.

This is a Facebook ad she posted last year, a campaign ad. It warns of a — quote — "permanent election insurrection" and defines that as the arrival of undocumented immigrants.

Now, Stefanik has disavowed the Buffalo shooter. She represents a district in New York. But some do see that ad as a reference to this — what we hear about, the white Replacement Theory, which the suspect in the Buffalo shooting wrote about.

Amy, I'm going to start with you. What do you think is going on underneath here? Why are some Republicans feeding or maybe not actively trying to address white anger?

Amy Walter, The Cook Political Report:

I think, as this piece — as the lead-in alluded to, lots of times when these things happen, these horrible tragedies involving guns, we talk about the Second Amendment.

In this case, we're focusing on the First Amendment. And so the issue really about, well, what is free speech exactly? It's been with us for a very long time, what you can and cannot say. What's inciting violence? What is simply OK to be able to talk about?

And that is a debate that we have been having most recently about what goes — gets posted on the Internet, right, and whose responsibility is that? But it's also in the political dialogue as well, which is, we know that the rhetoric just keeps getting ramped up and ramped up and ramped up.

And this idea that there are — this is just a political — that it won't seep into the broader society is — is not true, right?

The more that leaders, people who are in leadership positions, are willing to either excuse it or find — or find ways to sort of switch the topic, the harder it becomes for leaders to stand up and say, actually, we can draw a line. There is a First Amendment, but, this, just not acceptable. And we need to hold ourselves — even if Internet companies or the broader world won't hold us to those standards, we need to do it.

Lisa Desjardins:

And speaking of leaders, there was a tweet from another Republican, former lead member of leadership, Liz Cheney, who tweeted: "The GOP leadership has enabled white nationalism, white supremacy and antisemitism."

Tam, these are kinds of ideas, white Replacement Theory, that used to be way on the fringe. How are they now in the political mainstream for some people.

Tamara Keith, National Public Radio:

Yes.

So, white Replacement Theory was KKK, neo-Nazi stuff, and then it started seeping in a, in theory, more palatable form, right? Instead of white Replacement Theory, it's political Replacement Theory. That ad from Elise Stefanik was the idea that Democrats or somebody wants to bring in lots of illegal immigrants, who could then become legal and become American citizens and vote and replace Native American — or native-born American voters.

That's the theory behind this.

Lisa Desjardins:

You.

Tamara Keith:

You.

Lisa Desjardins:

Conservative voter.

Tamara Keith:

Conservative voters.

Lisa Desjardins:

Yes.

Tamara Keith:

There would be a liberal majority.

That is how it went from the fringes to the main — sort of the Republican mainstream. And you had, in Charlottesville, those people marching, chanting, with tiki torches, saying: "Jews will not replace us. You will not replace us." That was Replacement Theory in a way that was unpalatable.

But in the years…

Lisa Desjardins:

But at least it was clear. It was clear what they were saying.

Tamara Keith:

Yes.

And in the years since then, it has become something that is discussed in politics as, like, this is something that is going to happen, and that somebody wants this to happen.

And it is not — it is not in the exact same terms as white Replacement Theory. And that is what Stefanik's spokesperson pushed back on. She doesn't like — she doesn't have racist ideas. She's simply saying that there shouldn't be amnesty.

It all mixes and melds together.

Amy Walter:

Right.

And that's the whole thing about, what is free speech and what is hateful rhetoric that incites people to do terrible things?

Lisa Desjardins:

And then what is there to do?

New White House Press Secretary on her first day on the job Karine Jean-Pierre was asked today if the White House should push back more, call out people by name like Tucker Carlson. We talked about him on this show last night. And we play a role too, right, in the media.

So my question for you guys is, do voters hear these ideas challenged enough? And, if not, who and where? How does that happen?

Amy?

Amy Walter:

Well, as you know, Lisa, part of the problem is, we have media bubbles.

Lisa Desjardins:

Yes.

Amy Walter:

We don't — there is not cross-pollination.

And so there are people who are paying very close attention to this and are very outraged. And then there are other folks who probably aren't going to hear much about this at all.

Lisa Desjardins:

Yeah.

Tamara Keith:

Yeah.

Amy Walter:

Right. What she said.

Tamara Keith:

What Amy said, yeah.

(LAUGHTER)

Tamara Keith:

We are in bubbles. It is a — the American population is vulnerable to receiving conspiracy theories and accepting them as reality.

And there is no defined truth. And that sort of social isolation allows people to go into the dark recesses of the Internet and find things that confirm their beliefs and lead to really dangerous places.

Lisa Desjardins:

And it's obviously front of mine, especially for those of us here in the media. How do we get that truth out there? What do we do?

But another topic that does overlap with these sharp divides, primaries. We have some tomorrow, some good lines.

Amy Walter:

A lot.

Lisa Desjardins:

North Carolina, Pennsylvania and others.

I just got back from the Keystone State, fantastic few days there. Republicans in the Senate race have three very conservative candidates, including this sort of new surging Kathy Barnette. Democrats have an unconventional Senate candidate as well, John Fetterman, the lieutenant governor.

I want to ask you, Tam, is the idea of who can win changing? There used to be a formula. These aren't formulaic candidates.

Tamara Keith:

Right.

Someone like Dave McCormick, who's one of the Republican candidates, he's a veteran. He had success in business. If you went back 10 years to Republican candidate central casting, you would find him. But then Trump got elected. And the idea of what is electable I think has changed somewhat.

Someone like John Fetterman is not traditionally considered even remotely electable. He doesn't care. He shows up in — there you go — in a hoodie and gym shorts for a meeting with the president of the United States. And yet he is appealing to rural voters. He's appealing to working-class voters that Democrats have been struggling with.

And so — and someone like Barnette grabs attention, makes people have passion. And I don't know if they're going to win their primaries. I'm not here to make predictions. But I think that they are an example of candidates who are potentially redefining what it means.

Amy Walter:

Except we kind of flipped the script, Lisa.

In 2018 and 2020, the one thing that unified Democrats was getting rid of Donald Trump. And that meant electing in primaries the most electable candidate, which usually meant the most moderate to centrist.

Tamara Keith:

Center-right, yeah.

Amy Walter:

On the Democratic side here, you have John Fetterman, who not only doesn't look the part with the sweatshirt and the shorts, but he comes from the Bernie Sanders wing of the party, which, again, in the 2018-2020 version of Democrats, they would say, whoa, maybe that's a little too dangerous in a state as conservative as Pennsylvania, and we should elect the more moderate.

In this case, though, what Democrats are looking for is somebody who's going to be a fighter, because they're frustrated that they're not seeing that from the party right now. And Fetterman is giving that.

Lisa Desjardins:

All right, Amy Walter, Tamara Keith, great discussion.

Thank you both.

Amy Walter:

You're welcome.

Tamara Keith:

You're welcome.