>> THIS WEEK ON TO THE CONTRARY... FIRST, WELFARE AND WOMEN.

A WAR ON POVERTY OR A WAR ON THE POOR?

THEN, ENDING RACIAL DISPARITIES IN HOW GIRLS ARE DISCIPLINED AT PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

[♪♪♪] >> HELLO I'M BONNIE ERBE WELCOME TO TO THE CONTRARY A DISCUSSION OF NEWS AND SOCIAL TRENDS FROM DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES.

UP FIRST, THE ONGOING DEBATE OVER WELFARE BENEFITS.

>> A WAR ON THE POOR?

OR SAVING TAXPAYERS' MONEY?

THAT IS THE QUESTION AT THE HEART OF THE NEVER-ENDING DEBATE ABOUT WELFARE REFORM LAWS.

SOME PROPOSED AND OTHERS ON THE BOOKS.

INITIATIVES ARE BEING PUSHED BY REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS THAT BAR PEOPLE ON FOOD STAMPS FROM USING THEM TO BUY CERTAIN FOODS OR PEOPLE ON CASH ASSISTANCE TO USE IT TO GO TO THE MOVIES.

OTHER LAWS SUPPORT MANDATORY DRUG TESTING BEFORE RECEIVING GOVERNMENT BENEFITS.

CRITICS SAY IT'S UNFAIR TO THE POOR AND ONLY MARGINALIZES THEM.

MANY SAY SOME HAVE STOPPED SIGNING UP EVEN WHEN THEY NEED IT DUE TO THE JUDGMENT AND SHAME THE LAWS GENERATE.

AND THEY QUESTION HOW MUCH MONEY IS REALLY SAVED.

DARLENE WHAT IS YOUR VISION?

>> I I BELIEVE THE GOVERNMENT ONLY OWES THE CITIZENS TO OPPORTUNITY TO PURSUE AND ACHIEVE THE AMERICAN DREAM.

>> YOU PAY MORE YOU SUPPOSE EXPECT MORE.

>> WE WANT TO HELP OUR NEIGHBORS IN NEED BUT KNOWING THEY ARE DOING WHAT THEY CAN TO HELP THEMSELVES.

>> THEY OWE US THE TOOLS AND SKILLS ANY BARRIERS THAT DETER US TO GETTING TO THE AMERICAN DREAM.

>> THE'S GO DOWN A LIST AND OBVIOUSLY WE ALL KNOW REPUBLICANS GENERALLY WANT TO PAY LESS IN TAXES AND GIVE LESS SUPPORT TO PEOPLE LESS WELFARE, LESS ALL KINDS OF YOU KNOW SOCIAL PROGRAMS.

AND DEMOCRATS WANT MORE.

BUT LET'S START WITH ENOUGH FOR SUBSISTENCE LIVING IN TERMS OF FOOD.

>> YES,.

>> YES.

>> YES.

AND WE DO.

>> FOR CHILDREN.

>> AND WE DO.

>> YES.

>> WITHOUT LIMITS?

CAN KIDS TWO KIDS?

THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD PAY -- >> THAT IS DIFFERENT.

>> I WANT TO GET INTO SPECIFICS.

I WANT THE AUDIENCE TO UNDERSTAND HOW PEOPLE COME TO THEIR DECISIONS ABOUT WHAT THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD DO AND WHAT IT SHOULDN'T DO.

IF YOU HAVE TWO KIDS SHOULD THE GOVERNMENT PAY TO FEED THOSE KIDS?

IF YOU HAVE 10 KIDS?

>> IT DEPENDS ON THE CIRCUMSTANCE WHEN IT HAPPENS.

FOR ME I CANNOT SAY YOU CANNOT HAVE 10 OR FIVE KIDS.

BUT IF YOU ARE WRECKLESS AND NOT UTILIZING THE OPPORTUNITY YOU HAVE TO HAVE THAT GAP TO BRIDGE YOUR GAP TO GET TO THE NEXT STEP THEN WE NEED TO REVISIT WHAT YOU ARE RECEIVING AND HOW MUCH YOU GET.

>> SPECIFICS IS WHAT THE WELFARE PROGRAM NEEDS.

BECAUSE -- >> IT HAS LIMITATIONS.

>> BUT THE LIMITATIONS ARE GOOD.

TWO KIDS YES, IT SHOULD BE A NUMBER THAT IT CANNOT BE TOO MANY AND IT CANNOT BE TOO LITTLE.

>> BUT WE NEED TO SPECIFY WHAT THE FAMILY CAP IS ABOUT IN THE REFORM PACKAGE.

AND YOU COME INTO THE PROGRAM AND GET ASSISTANCE WITH THE FAMILY THAT YOU HAVE AND IF YOU HAVE AN ADDITIONAL CHILD AND TYPICALLY THESE ARE TO UNWED MOTHERS YOU WILL NOT GET EXTRA BENEFITS AND THAT IS THE FAMILY CAP AND IT IT IS A PRINCIPLE THAT MAKES SENSE.

YOU ARE GETTING ASSISTANCE FOR THE FAMILY WHEN YOU COME INTO THE PROGRAM.

NOT FOR ADDITIONAL BIRTHS BEYOND THAT.

>> WHAT IF THAT MEAN?

THAT MEANSES IF YOU HAVE ANOTHER CHILD YOU HAVE TO DO MORE WITH LESS?

AND SO WHAT OPPORTUNITY THEN ARE WE GIVING PEOPLE TO GET OUT OF POVERTY?

IF WE'RE SAYING YOU ARE IN THE SITUATION AND SO WE ARE NOT GOING TO HELP YOU ANYMORE THAN YOU HAVE BEEN ABLE TO HELP YOURSELF.

EVEN GIVEN ALL THE BARRIERS TO THAT?

IF YOU HAVE TWO KIDS WHEN YOU START THE PROGRAM AND YOU HAVE A THIRD YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO PROVIDE FOR ALL THREE NOT JUST THE TWO.

>> THE RATIONALE IS TO ENCOURAGE MARRIAGE AND -- >> ARE WELFARE RECIPIENTS TOLD THAT WHEN THEY SIGN UP FOR BENEFITS?

>> IT HAS NOT BEEN AS EFFECTIVE AS THE WELFARE REFORM IN THE 90s HOPED.

BUT TRYING TO COMMUNICATE.

WE SHOULD BE TELLING EVERYONE AND PARTICULARLY AT RISK YOUNG MOTHERS THAT IF YOU HAVE A CHILD OUTSIDE OF MARRIAGE THAT CHILD IS FIVE TIMES MORE LIKELY TO EXPERIENCE POVERTY THAN IF YOU GOT MARRIED TO THE FATHER OF THAT CHILD.

MANY WANT TO.

THESE ARE THE DREAMS THAT YOUNG WOMEN FROM LOW SOCIOECONOMIC BACKGROUNDS TELL US THEY WANT.

LET'S FIGURE OUT WHAT IS KEEPING THEM FROM ACHIEVING THAT DREAM.

>> WHY ARE WE PUTTING SO MUCH RESPONSIBILITY ON WOMEN?

>> BECAUSE MEN -- >> WHY ARE THE MEN LEAVING AND GETTING THE WOMEN IMPREGNATING AND NOT STAYING ON TO CREATE THIS FAMILY?

>> THE ANSWER IS THEY HAVE -- SEX AND.

>> AND FAMILY PLANNING.

>> RIGHT.

AND THE IDEA TOO THAT MARRIAGE IS A SILVER BULLET IT MEANS IF PEOPLE GET MARRIED IF YOU ARE IN A DOMESTIC VIOLENCE SITUATION OR SOMEBODY WHO IS A DEAD-BEAT THAT WE'RE SAYING SHACKLE YOURSELF TO THAT PERSON AND YOUR LIFE WILL GET BETTER?

>> I DON'T THINK ANY OF US WANT TO SEE ANYONE NOT SURVIVE IN THIS WORLD.

>> WHAT ARE THE PARAMETERS?

>> AGAIN, I WANT TO GET TO THE LIMITATIONS?

SHOULD THE GOVERNMENT PAY YOUR RENT IF YOU CANNOT AFFORD TO PAY THE RENT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE?

>> I'M NOT ANTI-FINANCIAL SUPPORT.

WHAT I'M AGAINST.

PAYING THE REPRESENTATIVE, YES, YOU NEED A ROOF OVER YOUR HEAD.

BUT DOES THE TOWN HAVE TO DO THAT?

>> PUBLIC HOUSING DOES THAT.

LET'S BE CLEAR ABOUT THE WELFARE STATE IT'S 80 TESTED PROGRAMS THAT PROVIDE CASH, FOOD, HOUSING, MEDICAL AND SOCIAL SERVICES TO THE POOR AND NEAR POOR.

WE HAVE A VAST STATE.

WE HAVE ALL THESE THINGS WHAT WE'RE SAYING YOU NEED THE INCENTIVE STRUCTURE OF THAT SYSTEM TO HELP PEOPLE PURSUE THE DREAMS THEY SAY THEY WANT NOT LOCK THEM INTO INTERGENERATIONAL DEPENDENCY.

>> AND LET'S GO TO HEALTHCARE.

NOT OBAMACARE, EVERY AMERICAN SUPPOSEDLY HAS ACCESS TO AFFORDABLE HEALTHCARE.

>> HOUSING, CHILDREN, FOOD AND HEALTHCARE IT SHOULD BE NONNEGOTIABLE.

>> WHY?

FIVMENT YOU DON'T HAVE YOUR HEALTH YOU CANNOT HAVE ANYTHING.

YOU CANNOT WORK.

>> YOU CANNOT WORK.

YOU CANNOT GO TO SCHOOL AND TAKE CARE OF YOUR KIDS.

>> AND IT'S BEEN ESTABLISHED OUT OF REACH, EXPENSIVE COMPARED TO THE REST OF THE WORLD.

WE NEED TO CHANGE.

>> I AGREE.

THEY SHOULD HAVE HEALTHCARE.

BUT, AGAIN, YOU NEED TO HAVE A CAP ON THIS STUFF.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT CAP IS.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE NUMBERS SHOULD BE.

BUT GETTING BACK TO INCENTIVES YOU WANT TO INCENTIADVISE PEOPLE TO MOVE FORWARD.

YOU SHOULD HAVE THE COVERAGES THE SAME THINGS THAT WORKING PEOPLE HAVE BUT YOU NEED TO KNOW I NEED TO WORK TOWARDS BEING ABLE TO SUSTAIN MYSELF.

SOMETIMES PEOPLE DO WORK.

WELFARE DOESN'T ONLY GO TO UNEMPLOYED BUT IT GOES TO THE WORKING POOR.

WE NEED TO LOOK AT THAT AS WELL.

>> I WANT YOUR THOUGHT ON HEALTHCARE?

>> ON HEALTHCARE?

I THINK THERE ARE GOING TO BE PEOPLE WHOSE LABOR MARKET VALUE IS NOT ENOUGH TO AFFORD THE PRODUCTS OUT THERE RIGHT NOW.

PARTIALLY THOSE ARE INFLATED THE PRICE IS INFLATED BECAUSE OF THE REGULATIONS THAT CAME ALONG WITH OBAMACARE.

LET'S DO WHAT WE CAN DO BRING A MARKETPLACE BACK AND DO A BETTER JOB OF SERVING THE POOR AND NEAR POOR BY GIVING THEM PREMIUM SUPPORT TO BUY WHAT SUITS THEIR NEEDS NOT WHAT MEDICAID IS GIVING THEM WHICH IS NOT DOING JUSTICE TO THEIR NEEDS.

>> IS THAT NOT -- THERE ARE EXPERTS WHO SAY YOU SUPPORT THEIR PREMIUMS, RIGHT.

THAT IS TAXPAYERS' MONEY.

TAXING NOT SO MUCH THE RICH BECAUSE THEY DON'T -- WE KNOW THE SUPER RICH ANYWAY DON'T PAY OR USE LOOPHOLES AND GET AWAY WITH OUT PAYING MUCH.

BUT IT'S REALLY THE UPPER MIDDLE CLASS AND THE MIDDLE CLASS.

IS IT THE OBLIGATION IN YOUR MIND OF MIDDLE AND UPPER MIDDLE CLASS PEOPLE TO PAY FOR THINGS LIKE HEALTHCARE FOR POOR PEOPLE?

IS THAT AN OBLIGATION?

>> I THINK WE HAVE A MORAL RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE SURE IN OUR COUNTRY OUR NEIGHBORS ARE NOT FALLING THROUGH THE CRACKS ARE NOT SUFFERING IN WAYS THAT COULD BE ALLEVIATED IN BASIC MEDICAL CARE.

THAT -- >> DOES THAT EXTEND TO IMMIGRANTS LEGAL AND ILLEGAL?

>> OUR EMERGENCY ROOM POLICY DOES THAT RIGHT NOW.

WE DON'T WANT ANYONE TO HAVE -- IF THERE IS AN EMERGENCY SITUATION THEY WILL BE TAKEN CARE OF IN AMERICA.

>> HOW MANY ROLES THE GOVERNMENT PLAYS IN TAKING CARE OF THE CITIZENS.

THE I JUST CAME BACK FROM OVERSEAS I MEAN, I CAME BACK FROM A COUNTRY WHERE THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOTHING.

NOTHING.

AND YOU KNOW PEOPLE ARE FALLING THROUGH THE CRACKS OVER 50%.

STARVATION RATE BUT POVERTY INDEX PEOPLE ARE BELOW THE STARVATION LINE AND THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T CARE.

TO COME BACK TO A COUNTRY LIKE THIS, REALLY?

WE EXPECT THIS?

WE SHOULD BE GRATEFUL.

>> AND WE PROVIDE A LOT.

WE ARE PROVIDING MORE THAN DOUBLE THE AMOUNT -- >> IN COMPARISON TO INDIA AND SEEN WHEN IT LOOKS LIKE WITH NO FDA AND NO REGULATION AND HOW PEOPLE FALL THROUGH THE CRACKS.

BUT WE NEED MORE SPECIFICS AND WE NEED TO STOP LOOKING AT THE POOR AS IF THEY ARE A PROBLEM.

AND THAT IS THE WAY WE VIEW THEM.

WE KEEP SAYING WE NEED TO INCENTIADVISE PEOPLE TO GET OFF OF WELFARE THE ASSUMPTION THEY ARE HAPPY GETTING WELFARE.

WHICH THEY AREN'T.

WE HAVE TAKEN THE CELEBRITIES WHO HAVE TAKEN THE FOOD STAMP CHALLENGE AND THEY CANNOT LAST A WEEK ON THE $29 OR $30 THAT -- >> TRYING TO LIVE ON A MINIMUM WAGE AND COULD NOT DO IT.

>> THERE IS NO PLACE THAT YOU CAN AFFORD REST ON MINIMUM WAGE NOT ONE STATE.

>> THE POINT IS YOU ARE NOT GETTING ONLY ONE PROGRAM OF BENEFIT.

PEOPLE ARE GETTING CASH, FOOD, HOUSING, MEDICAID, AND A BUNDLE OF GOODS FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

SO I DO AGREE WE SHOULD GET MORE SPECIFIC IN OUR CONVERSATION AND WE DON'T ALWAYS ILLUMINATE ALL THE DETAILS.

>> YOU RAISE THE ISSUE OF WHY IS IT ALWAYS THE MOTHERS WHO ARE GETTING THESE BENEFITS PICKED ON FOR BEING BAD.

WHATEVER ONUS YOU WANT TO ADD TO A WOMAN'S BURDEN IN HAVING CHILDREN.

BUT BECAUSE TANF GOES TO MOTHERS WITH CHILDREN WITHOUT MEN IN THEIR LIVES ARE THESE LIMITS SEXIST?

THE THINGS ABOUT GOING TO THE MOVIES?

OR THE FOOD THAT YOU CAN BUY?

IN THE END, 90% OF THE PEOPLE ON THESE BENEFITS ARE WOMEN.

>> LIMITATIONS ON WHAT YOU CAN BUY, I DON'T THINK YOU SHOULD BE BUYING ALCOHOL BUT -- >> IF YOU DO THAT, WHERE DO YOU STOP?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW I DON'T KNOW.

IT SEEMS COMMON SENSE.

WHY SHOULDN'T SOMEONE WITH LITTLE KIDS NOT BE ABLE TO TAKE THEIR KIDS TO SEE FROZEN?

>> THE SUPREME COURT SLIPPERY SLOPE?

[LAUGHTER] I MEAN YOU ALLOW THIS YOU DON'T ALLOW THAT?

WHERE DOES IT END?

>> LET'S BE CLEAR.

LOOK AT THE SURVEYS OF WHAT THE TYPICAL POOR HOUSEHOLD IN AMERICA HAS.

AND THEY HAVE MORE THAN ONE TV, CABLE AND A GAMING SYSTEM THEY HAVE THAT IN THEIR HOME.

AND THE WAR ON POVERTY HAS BEEN E52-WEEK ACTIVE IN RAISING MATERIAL LIVING STANDARDS.

WHAT IT HAS NOT BEEN EFFECTIVE IS RAISING THE ABILITY OF AMERICANS TO ACHIEVE SELF SUFFICIENCY.

>> AND EDUCATION FREE PUBLIC SCHOOL, ELEMENTARY, HIGH SCHOOL, AND THEN YOU KNOW, FREE OR INEXPENSIVE STATE SUE ITION RATES -- TUITION RATES.

BUT WHY HAS THAT NOT SOLVED THE PROBLEM?

>> BECAUSE FOR EXAMPLE, POOR PEOPLE WHO CAME TO THE COUNTRY 100 ODD YEARS AGO THERE WAS NOT A PUBLIC EDUCATION SYSTEM.

THERE WERE NOT PUBLIC UNIVERSITIES LIKE NOW.

IF YOU GET EDUCATED YOU ARE NOT GOING TO END UP USUALLY DRIVING A CAB FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE AND LIVING ON SOMETHING LIKE MINIMUM WAGE.

>> AND THE SYSTEM WE HAD 150 YEARS AGO WAS MUCH MORE LOCALIZED AND ACCOUNT ABLE WAS HORIZONTAL FROM THE PROVIDERS TO THE PARENTS AND THE FAMILIES.

NOW WE HAVE A VERTICAL ACCOUNTABILITY SYSTEM.

THE SCHOOL IS REPORTING UP TO WASHINGTON AND THAT IS NOT SERVING THE CONSUMERS WELL.

>> AND OUR EDUCATION SYSTEM DOES NOT MEET THE BARRIERS TO EDUCATION IN LOW INCOME COMMUNITIES ARE FACING.

SUCH AS HEALTHCARE, SUCH AS BEING ABLE TO BE IN A SAFE ENVIRONMENT.

WALKING FROM YOUR FRONT DOOR TO YOUR SCHOOL WITHOUT GETTING SHOT.

THE WAY WE POLICE OVERPOLICE IN SCHOOLS THAT ARE LOW INCOME.

THERE ARE SO MANY BARRIERS TO EDUCATION THAT WE DON'T UNDERSTAND AND WE EXPECT KIDS TO SHOW UP AND RECITE THEIR ABC'S AND NOT PROTECT THEM IN THE WAYS THAT WOULD HAVE THEM BE PREPARED TO LEARN.

>> LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK.

FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER @BONNIEERBE.

FROM GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE TO DISPARITIES IN DISCIPLINE... >> ACCORDING TO THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, AFRICAN-AMERICAN GIRLS ARE SIX TIMES MORE LIKELY TO BE SUSPENDED FROM SCHOOL THAN THEIR WHITE COUNTERPARTS.

STUDIES SUCH AS BLACK GIRLS MATTER PUSHED OVER OVERPOLICED AND UNDER PROTECTED CHARGE THAT SYSTEMIC RACISM FACED BY AFRICAN-AMERICAN MALES EACH DAY ALSO AFFECTS GIRLS OF COLOR.

NOTING THAT HARSHER TREATMENT LEADS TO NEGATIVE OUT COMES, RESEARCHERS POINTED OUT THE GIRLS ARE NOT INCLUDED IN PROGRAMS DESIGNED TO KEEP THEM IN SCHOOL AND OUT OF PRISON.

>> GIRLS SUFFER A HEAVIER BURDEN OF RACIAL DISPARITY THAN BOYS DO.

SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT POINTS US TO THINK ABOUT IS WHAT ARE THE WAYS THAT BLACK GIRLS IN PROTECT ARE MADE MORE -- PARTICULAR ARE MADE MORE VULNERABLE TO DISCIPLINE AND SUSPENSION MORE VULNERABLE TO EXPULLEXPULSION.

AND HOW IS THAT SHAPING SOME OF THE MORE NEGATIVE OUT COMES THAT WE SEE IN MANY BLACK WOMEN FACING IN SOCIETY.

>> STUDIES HAVE FOUND THAT THE DARKER A STUDENT'S SKIN THE MORE LIKELY SHE IS TO BE PENALIZED AT HARSHER THAN WHITE SCHOOLMATES FOR THE SAME OFFENSE.

THE REASON IS UNCLEAR.

IN 2014, TWO STUDENTS WERE SUSPENDED FOR VANDALIZING SCHOOL PROPERTY.

ONE WHITE STUDENT PAID RESTITUTION TO AVOID SEVERE PUNISHMENT AND THE OTHER STUDENT, A BLACK MIDDLE SCHOOLER WHO WAS UNABLE TO PAY FACED A DISCIPLINARY HEARING AND TRESPASSING MISDEMEANOR CHARGES.

>> IF YOUR FAMILY CAN FIND THE RESOURCES TO PAY A FINE OR IN SOME OTHER WAY FIND A DIVERSION AREA INTERVENTION A CHILDHOOD PRANK WILL NOT BE SO LIFE ALTERING.

BUT BECAUSE OUR CHILDREN ARE DISPROPORTIONATELY POOR AND BECAUSE THEY MIGHT NOT HAVE THE SAME ACCESS TO COUNSELORS, RESOURCES, EVEN REPRESENTATION, HEAVY PUNITIVE POLICIES WILL HAVE A DISIMPORTANCE PORTIONATELY NEGATIVE IMPACT ON THEM.

DANIELLE, IS THERE A CULTURAL ISSUE GOING ON HERE?

LIKE IF A YOUNG AFRICAN-AMERICAN GIRL IS IDENTIFIED BY A WHITE SCHOOL ADMINISTRATOR AS BEING DEFIANT OR HAVING A BAD ATTITUDE IS THAT MAYBE A CULTURAL GAP THAT THE ADMINISTRATOR DOESN'T UNDERSTAND?

>> THERE'S ABSOLUTELY A CULTURAL GAP.

THERE IS A GENDER GAP AND A CULTURE AAL GAP.

AND THE IDEA IS IF A YOUNG BLACK GIRL ACTS OUT AND IS NOT BEING SUBMISSIVE, THEN SHE NEEDS TO BE SUSPENDED.

AND THAT IS WHAT IS HAPPENING.

WE EXPECT GIRLS TO BE DEMUIR AND POLITE TO BE ALL OF THESE THINGS.

AND ESPECIALLY PUT BURDENS ON AFRICAN-AMERICAN GIRLS AS WELL.

AND SO WE'VE SEEN WHAT IS HAPPENING.

AND PEOPLE IT'S RACIALIZED AND GENDERRIZED AND HOW WE EXPECT CERTAIN PEOPLE TO ACT.

>> THE STUDY WAS OF ZERO TOLERANCE SCHOOLS.

THEY ARE ALREADY IN A SITUATION WHERE THEY ARE GETTING VERY STRICT DISCIPLINARY CODE.

>> I CANNOT GIVE BLACK GIRLS I CANNOT GIVE THEM A PASS.

I'M NOT SAYING YOU SHOULD BE DOCILE AND COMA TOES BUT THERE ARE RULES WE HAVE TO PLAY BY.

WHEN YOU WENT TO SCHOOL YOU SAID YES OR NO AND YOU WERE QUIET.

I HAD NO EXCUSE FOR NOT DOING THOSE THINGS.

SO I THINK PART OF THAT IS MAYBE THERE IS NOT ENOUGH SUPPORT AT HOME TO HELP.

THEY TALKED THE CLIP TALKED ABOUT THE FACT THAT BLACK GIRLS ARE NOT ABLE ITING INTO THE PROGRAMS.

AND PART OF THAT IS THEY DON'T HAVE THE SUPPORT SYSTEM AT HOME NECESSARILY THAT CAN GET THEM IN THOSE DIFFERENT PROGRAMS THAT WOULD BE SUPPORTIVE TO THEM AND TO GROW BETTER.

>> AT HOME, BUT ALSO, IT'S UNDENIABLE RACISM IS REAL.

AND WHAT YOU SAID IS RIGHT.

IT'S RACIALIZED AND GENDERRIZED AND IT'S TRUE.

ARE YOU EXPECTED TO ACT A CERTAIN WAY AND IF YOU DON'T AND A WOMAN OF COLOR AS MUCH AS I DON'T LIKE THAT TERM YOU WILL GET PEBLLIZED.

>> WHY DON'T YOU LIKE THAT TERM?

>> IT PAINTS US AS WOMEN OF COLOR?

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

AM I BROWNISH?

GRAYISH.

LIKE YOU ARE WHITE OR OTHER.

>> NO ONE SHOULD FACE UNJUST DISCRIMINATION FOR THEIR RACE LET'S GRANT THAT AND WHAT PROBLEM IS THERE BECAUSE OF THAT WE SHOULD ROOT OUT.

OTHER THINGS THE REPORT DID AND DID NOT ANSWER.

IT CALLED FOR MORE RESEARCH AND IT OUGHT TO ILLUMINATE WHAT BEHAVIORS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.

THE REPORT DID NOT TELL US HOW IT WAS EVALUATING AND COMPARING BEHAVIORS AND THE SEGMENT HAD AN ANECDOTE BUT IT'S HARD TO TELL IF THE DISCIPLINE REPORTED FIT THE BEHAVIOR REPORTED.

>> ONE PART OF THE REPORT IN NEW YORK CITY IN 2011 OR 2012 THERE WERE ZERO WHITE GIRLS AND 53 GIRLS OF COLOR.

SO WHAT DOES THAT SAY TO YOU?

>> I NEED TO KNOW THE OTHER PART OF THE EQUATION.

WHAT WAS THE BEHAVIOR ON EACH SIDE?

AND WAS THE DISCIPLINE APPROPRIATE TO THE BEHAVIOR.

THAT IS THE PIECE THAT IS MISSING IN THIS REPORT AND DISCUSSION.

>> I DO NOT AGREE WITH ZERO TOLERANCE POLICIES AT ALL.

THESE ARE KIDS THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH.

SCHOOL IS SUPPOSED TO TEACH YOU HOW TO BE AN ADULT.

RIGHT?

SO THE IDEA THAT WE DON'T USE IT -- >> BUT THIS IS AN IMPORTANT QUESTION.

IS IT SUPPOSED TO TEACH YOU THAT?

OR ISN'T THAT YOUR FAMILY'S JOB?

>> AS A FORMER TEACHER THAT IS WHAT YOUR EDUCATION IS THAT IS WHAT EXACTLY SCHOOL IS SUPPOSED TO DO.

ABSOLUTELY PARENTS HAVE RESPONSIBILITIES IN LIEU OF HAVING PARENTS THAT THE ARE THERE AND WITH YOU ALL OF THE TIME AND NOT WORKING 60 HOURS A WEEK TO KEEP A ROOF OVER YOUR HEAD SCHOOLS ARE SUPPOSED TO TEACH YOU HOW TO BECOME CITIZENS.

>> AS A FORMER TEACHER, IS THAT TOO BIG A JOB TO ASK?

SOME OF THE KIDS COME IN WITHOUT HAVING BEEN FED BREAKFAST WITH AN ALCOHOLIC PARENT AND ABSENT BECAUSE THEY ARE JUST ABSENT.

IS IT TOO MUCH TO ASK OF TEACHERS TO MAKEUP FOR THE MESSES THAT SOME PEOPLE ARE CREATING BY HAVING FAMILIES WHEN THEY ARE NOT ABLE TO TAKE CARE OF THEM?

>> IT IS A HUGE BURDEN THAT TEACHERS BEAR.

IT WE BEHOOVE US TO PAY THEM FOR THE BURDEN THAT THEY ARE UNDERTAKEN.

>> AND TEACHERS ARE WAY UNDERPAID.

>> BUT YOU MAKE THE POINT THAT TEACHERS HAVE BEEN SAYING.

THEY ARE DEALING WITH SO MUCH MORE THAN LET ME TEACH YOU HOW TO WALK IN A LINE ADMINISTRATOR RECITE YOUR ABC'S.

WE SHOULD VALUE THEM FOR THE JOB THEY ARE DOING WHICH IS TO CREATE RESPONSIBLE CITIZENS.

>> THIS REPORT GOT AT ALL OTHER FACTORS.

THE CHAOS IN THE SCHOOL, THE CHAOS IN THE HOME AND CHAOS IN THE COMMUNITY.

ONE THING WE KOKO DO IMMEDIATELY IS ALLOW STUDENTS TO ESCAPE A SCHOOL WHERE THERE'S LOTS OF VIOLENCE AND TO CHOOSE A SAFE SCHOOL.

THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED IN THE WASHINGTON D.C.

OPPORTUNITY SCHOLARSHIP PROGRAM.

THERE WERE COMPLAINTS ABOUT THE DISCIPLINE AND THE VIOLENCE AT THEIR CHILDREN'S PUBLIC SCHOOLS THAT BROUGHT ABOUT THIS OPPORTUNITY TO CHOOSE PRIVATE SCHOOLS WITH THE OPPORTUNITY SCHOLARSHIP.

>> AND TO SOME EXTENT THAT THAT IS LIKE ON ITS FACE THAT SEEMS LIKE A GOOD IDEA.

BUT WE'RE STILL NOT GETTING TO THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM WHICH IS THE COMMUNITY.

WE'RE SAYING HERE YOU CAN GO TO THIS SCHOOL BUT YOU ARE LIVING HERE WHERE THE VIOLENCE IS PREF LEAPT.

WHAT ABOUT THE KIDS THAT CANNOT OPT IN BECAUSE IT IS A LOTTERY SYSTEM AND YOUR EDUCATION SHOULD NOT BE A LOTTERY.

>> I WANTED TO ASK YOU WITH THIS REPORT AND A COUPLE OTHER SIMILAR ONES THAT HAVE COME OUT RECENTLY, ARE WE FOCUSING TOO MUCH ON BLACK BOYS' PROBLEMS AND NOT ENOUGH ON BLACK GIRLS?

THE PRESIDENT DID THE INITIATIVE WITH SAVE OUR BLACK BOYS?

>> TO JENNIFER'S POINT WE NEED MORE RESEARCH ACROSS THE BOARD.

I DON'T THINK WE ARE FOCUSING ON ONE GROUP MORE.

BOTH NEED EQUAL ATTENTION AND IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE GET THE EQUAL ATTENTION THAT IS NECESSARY BECAUSE THERE IS NOT JUST ONE GROUP HERE, BLACK BOYS EVERYTHING IS TERRIBLE WHICH MAKES THE ASSUMPTION FOR BLACK GIRLS EVERYTHING IS FANTASTIC WHICH WE SEE IS THE NO THE CASE.

>> WHY DOES IT COME OUT THAT WAY?

WHY IS THERE A MOVEMENT TO HELP BLACK BOYS AND A MOVEMENT?

WHY ISN'T IT JUST ALL POOR PEOPLE OR ALL UNDERSERVED PEOPLE?

>> THIS IS WHAT WE -- >> I WAS GOING TO RESPOND BECAUSE ONE OF THE CLIPS TALKED ABOUT THE TWO GIRLS THAT PUT GRAFITTI IN THE WALL AND THE WHITE GIRL GOT OFF BECAUSE SHE COULD PAY.

THAT IS A SOCIOECONOMIC ISSUE.

IF THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN'S CHILD PARENTS OR GRANDPARENTS HAD THE MONEY, SHE WOULD BE ABLE TO NOT SERVE THOSE PENALTIES.

I DON'T ALWAYS THINK IT'S ABOUT COLOR IT'S ABOUT ECONOMICS.

A BIG ISSUE.

>> DOESN'T COLOR PLAY INTO THE ECONOMICS?

>> THE WORKING POOR PARENTS I GREW UP WITH.

IT'S NOT ALWAYS ABOUT RACE.

THEY SEPTEMBER ME TO SCHOOL AND SAID IF YOU WANT TO DO BETTER THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT YOU HAD TO DO?

WAS IT EASY?

BUT YOU KNOW THE FACT IS I HAD THAT OPPORTUNITY AND MY PARENTS SUPPOSED ME IN HAVING THAT -- SUPPORTED ME IN HAVING THAT OPPORTUNITY AND IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT COLOR YOU ARE IT MATTERS HOW HARD YOU WORK.

>> I AGREE WITH THAT.

YOU KNOW THAT PROJECT WE HAVE SEEN RECENTLY WHICH WAS WHAT I WISH MY TEACHER KNEW?

AND THIS TEACHER ASKED HER STUDENTS ELEMENTARY SCHOOL STUDENTS TO TELL HER WHAT THEY WISH SHE KNEW ABOUT THEIR HOME LIFE AND SOME KIDS WERE I WISH MY TEACHER KNEW THAT I DON'T ALWAYS HAVE A PENCIL OR MY PARENTS DON'T SIGN MY HOMEWORK BECAUSE MY MOM IS NOT AROUND.

TEACHERS DO TAKE ON AN ADDED RESPONSIBILITY.

WE NEED TO RESPECT THEM MORE AND PAY THEM MORE.

AND SOMETIMES WHAT YOU ARE NOT GETTING AT HOME HOPEFULLY YOU ARE GETTING AT SCHOOL.

HOW OFTEN DO WE JUDGE SOMEONE BY THEIR BEHAVIOR SAYING THEY ARE SO WELL-EDUCATED.

OR UNEDUCATED.

IT MATTERS.

IT MATTERS.

>> IT MATTERS AND SOCIOECONOMICS IS NOT DEVOID OF RACISM AND GENDER.

WHEN WE HAVE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT HOW WOMEN ARE NOT EQUALLY PAID WHEN WE LOOK AT THAT, WHEN YOU START TO BREAK IT DOWN BY RACE, BLACK WOMEN ARE PAID 50 CENTS ON THE DOLLAR.

>> THAT IS SO TRUE AND SAD.

THAT IS IT FOR THIS EDITION.

FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER AND VISIT OUR WEBSITE PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.

AND WHETHER YOU AGREE OR THINK TO THE CONTRARY, SEE YOU WEEK.

[♪♪♪] FOR A TRANSCRIPT OR TO SEE AN ON-LINE VERSION OF THIS EPISODE OF TO THE CONTRARY, VISIT OUR WEBSITE AT PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.

[♪♪♪]