>> THIS WEEK ON TO THE CONTRARY... FIRST, NEW INSIGHTS ON WOMEN'S LACK OF PROGRESS IN THE WORKPLACE.

BEHIND THE HEADLINES.

INTERVAL TRAINING AS A NEW PARENTMENT AND PLANNED-PARENTHOOD'S FAVOR WITH THE PUBLIC RISES AS CONGRESSIONAL CONSERVATIVES TRY TO KILL IT.

[♪♪♪] >> HELLO I'M BONNIE ERBE WELCOME TO TO THE CONTRARY A DISCUSSION OF NEWS AND SOCIAL TRENDS FROM DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES.

UP FIRST, WOMEN ADVANCING SLOWLY.

>> IT WILL TAKE 100 YEARS BEFORE WOMEN ACHIEVE TRUE EQUALITY IN CORPORATE AMERICA AFFORDING TO A NEW STUDY WHICH NOTES THAT FEWER THAN 1 IN 5 PEOPLE TO THE PIPELINE TO THE EXECUTIVE SUITE IS FREE MAIL AND CONVENTIONAL WISDOM MAY BE WRONG.

MEN AND WOMEN REPORT SIMILAR LEVELS OF AMBITION AND CONFLICT BETWEEN WORK AND FAMILY LIFE.

PARENTHOOD DOES NOT DAMPEN THAT ATTITUDE FOR EITHER GENDER.

BUT AS TIME IN THE WORKPLACE GROWS LONGER WOMEN ARE MORE LIKELY TO SAY THEY DO NOT WANT THE TOP JOB AND REPORT STRESS AND PRESSURE AS FACTORS HOLDING THEM BACK MORE THAN MEN DO.

ACCORDING TO THE STUDY THE PATH TO LEADERSHIP MIGHT BE MORE STRESSFUL TO WOMEN BECAUSE THE ISSUE IS GENDER BIAS.

ALMOST HALF OF ALL WOMEN SAY THEIR CORPORATIONS GIVE WOMEN FEWER OPPORTUNITIES TO ADVANCE THAN MEN.

>> SO CONGRESSMAN NORTON WE HAVE TALKED ON THE SHOW ABOUT THE LACK OF EQUALITY FOR WOMEN IN THE WORKPLACE FOR DECADES.

BUT THIS REPORT HAS AMAZING NEW FINDINGS THAT WE HAVE NOT SEEN BEFORE.

WHICH IS YOUR FAVORITE?

>> BONNIE, MY FAVORITE IS THAT AT EVERY LEVEL OF MANAGEMENT WOMEN ARE RATED MORE -- RATED HIGHER THAN MEN.

BUT THE PROPORTION OF MEN GROWS THE HIGHER THE LEVEL OF MANAGEMENT.

TELL ME THAT IS NOT DISCRIMINATION.

>> WELL, MY FAVORITE WAS THAT APARENTLY IF YOU ARE A MAN IT HELPS TO BE LIKABLE BUT IF YOU ARE A WOMAN IT HURTS YOU.

WHO KNEW?

>> MY FAVORITE WAS THAT IF YOU ARE RESPECTED AS A WOMAN AND HAVE POWER AS A WOMAN THAT OTHERS PERCEIVE THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE THE POWER TO BRING THEM ALONG WITH YOU AS YOUR SUCCESS RISES.

>> MY FAVORITE WAS LOOKING AT THE SOLUTIONS THAT THE REPORT IDENTIFIED.

IT TALKED ABOUT TARGETS AND SAID THE INCREASE THE MARKET BUT WHAT ABOUT THE WOMEN WHO ARE BEING MARGINALIZED?

>> AND YOU AS ONE OF TWO FORMER CHAIRS WE HAVE ON THE PANEL TODAY WHAT DOES THIS TELL YOU?

IS SEXISM SO DEEPLY ENGRAINED IN OUR SOCIETY THAT IT'S GOING TO TAKE A REVOLUTION TO GET RID OF IT?

>> I THINK WE CONTINUE TO HAVE STRUCTURAL PROBLEMS AND CHALLENGES AND BIASES AND CONTINUE TO HAVE WHAT I CONSIDER TO BE SOCIAL AS WELL AS HABITUAL.

SOME PEOPLE YOU TALK ABOUT NETWORKS.

WE HAVE NOT INTEGRATED NETWORKS.

MEN HAVE THE MALE NETWORKS AND WOMEN HAVE FEMALE NETWORKS BUT WE DO NOT HAVE A DIVERSE NETWORK.

WHEN YOU HAVE MEN AT THE TOP THAT IS -- >> BUT LET ME TAKE YOU A STEP BACK ON THAT.

BECAUSE THE INTERNATIONAL WOMEN'S FORUM FOR DECADES NOW THAT ARE ALL AND IT'S NOT THE ONLY ONE.

NABO, AND WOMEN BUSINESS OWNERS AND ALL THESE KINDS OF -- THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF FEMALE EXECUTIVES, HAVE THEY NOT MADE ANY DENT?

>> IN CREATING POWERFUL NETWORKS OF WOMEN SO THAT WOMEN CAN HELP EACH OTHER ALONG?

>> I THINK THEY HAVE.

I THINK THAT AND YOU HAVE THESE ORGANIZATIONS ARE MADE UP OF HIGHLY ACCOMPLISHED WOMEN.

BUT TYPICALLY THE WOMAN IN A PARTICULAR ORGANIZATION.

AS WOMEN TALKING TO WOMEN.

AS OPPOSED TO THE QUESTION IS WELL WHERE DO MEN GO?

DO THEY GO TO A WOMEN'S GROUP WHEN THEY RECRUIT?

IF THEY WANT TO BE INTENTIONAL THEY DO BUT IF THEY WANT TO RECRUIT SOMEONE THEY GO TO A MAINSTREAM TYPE ORGANIZATION.

WE HAVE A WAYS TO GO.

>> IF YOU WANT TO BREAKTHROUGH THIS WOMEN OUGHT TO BE ABLE TO GO TO MEN.

IF THEY ARE THE ONES IN THE POSITION TO BE THE MENTORS THERE NEEDS TO BE GREATER FREEDOM TO GO TO THEM AND OFFER THEM TO WOMEN TO WOMEN WHEN YOU CONSIDER THE WOMEN ARE RAREFIED IN THEIR TALENT.

AND THESE WOMEN IN LIGHT OF WHAT YOU ASKED ABOUT EQUAL EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITY COMMISSION ARE NOT LIKELY TO FILE A COMPLAINT.

>> BECAUSE IT RUINS THEIR CAREER.

>> JESUS YOU ARE -- EXCUSE ME -- YOU ARE BLACKLISTED IF YOU DO THAT.

SO IT'S VERY HARD FOR THE LAW TO REACH THIS.

WHICH MEANS THAT THIS SURVEY THIS HELPFUL SURVEY, NEEDS TO GET THE ATTENTION OF THESE C.E.O.S WHO SAY THAT THEY ARE ALL FOR AFFIRMATIVE ACTION AND DIVERSITY BUT THE EMPLOYEES PERCEIVE NO ACTION.

>> I THINK THERE IS ANOTHER PROBLEM.

IF YOU LOOKED AT THE DATA THEY SHOWED THAT WOMEN ARE NOT IN LINED POSITION.

THEY ARE NOT IN POSITIONS THAT CONTRIBUTE TO THE BOTTOM LINE OF THE CORPORATION.

>> IT SAID THAT THEY STARTED OUT IN THOSE -- AND WHAT I DID NOT FIND CLEAR IN THAT SURVEY WAS OK DO THEY SELF SELECT FROM A LINE JOB WHERE YOU ARE GUIDING A FACTORY INTO PUBLIC RELATIONS INTO HUMAN RELATIONS WHICH ARE NONLINE JOBS?

OR ARE THEY FORCED INTO THEM?

>> SOMETIMES WHAT HAPPENS IS YOU GET A VICE-PRESIDENT FOR DIVERSITY, A VICE-PRESIDENT FOR CORPORATE RELATIONINGS AND THOSE ARE THE POSITIONS THAT HUMAN RESOURCES THOSE ARE THE KINDS OF POSITIONS WHERE YOU SEE MORE WOMEN IN CORPORATE AMERICA.

AND SO WOMEN MAY IN FACT THEY WANT PROMOTIONS AND PROMOTION THAT SALARY LOOKS REALLY GOOD BUT IT'S GOING TO END UP TOPPING YOU OFF.

YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BE KEPT IN LINE FOR A C.E.O.

POSITION.

SO THAT IS PART OF THE PROBLEM.

BUT ALSO, THE BIG THING WAS WHAT YOU DESCRIBED IS WOMEN FEELING MORE STRESS.

SOME OF THE WOMEN SAY THEY DON'T WANT TO BE C.E.O.S.

THAT IS WHY I DO NOT THINK IT WILL TAKE 100 YEARS.

WE MAY NERVE SEE A -- NEVER SEE WOMEN IN EQUAL POSITIONS.

>> IT'S THE SYSTEM GETTING TO THEM THAT PUSHES THEM TO THAT POINT.

WHEN THEY START OUT 78%, AND THE AMBITION IS EQUAL.

AND FRANKLY CONSERVATIVES HAVE BEEN SAYING FOR QUITE SOMETIME THAT WOMEN SELF SELECT OUT THAT WOMEN DON'T WANT TO NECESSARILY BE C.E.O.S AND THESE DATA SHOW THAT THAT IS NOT TRUE.

>> WELL, WHEN THEY GET TO THE TOP THEY DO NOT NECESSARILY WANT TO.

MAYBE THEY FIND OUT GEE THIS IS GOING TO CONSUME MY ENTIRE LIFE AND I DO NOT WANT THAT.

AND WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT?

>> WHAT IS DIFFERENT IN OUR COUNTRY THAN LOOKING AT THE NORDIC COUNTRIES AND THE REST OF THE WORLD.

WE DON'T HAVE TO GAZE AT OUR OWN NAVELS TO USE A BUSH TERM.

YOU KNOW WE CAN LOOK AT OTHER COUNTRIES WHERE WOMEN DO RISE WHERE THEY ARE THERE IN C.E.O.

POSITIONS.

WHERE THEY DON'T OPT OUT.

PERHAPS THOSE COUNTRIES SUPPORT WOMEN MORE.

IN STAYING IN THE JOBS.

PERHAPS THERE ARE MORE PROGRAMS THAT HELP WITH CHILDCARE.

WE CAN LOOK AT OTHER COUNTRIES AND GET GUIDANCE.

>> MY EXPERIENCE IN THE INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS COMMUNITY IS THAT THERE ARE FEWER WOMEN IN THOSE POSITIONS IN THOSE COUNTRIES.

>> THIS PROBLEM IS GLOBAL I AGREE THAT YOU CAN TAKE TWO OR THREE SCANDINAVIAN COUNTRIES WHERE PEOPLE RISE AND BENEFITS FOR WOMEN MAY HELP THEM.

>> FINLAND HAD TO TURN TO QUOTAS TO QUOTAS TO GET SOME -- IT WASN'T 50% BUT IT WAS LIKE 40% WOMEN C.E.O.S OF GOVERNMENT-RELATED CORPORATIONS.

>> AND YOUR POINT ABOUT WOMEN STARTING OFF EQUALLY AMBITIOUS NEEDS TO BE UNDERSTOOD.

THEY WOULD NOT HAVE 40 YEARS AGO.

TODAY THEY ARE YOUNG AND FOOLISH.

THEY REALLY THINK THEY ARE LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE.

AND THEN THEY FIND OUT THAT WHAT WE'RE DOING IN THEIR GENERATION AND NOT ONLY THEIR GENERATION PERHAPS THEIR MILLENNIA IS UNRAVELING THE MILLENNIA OF THE WAY WOMEN HAVE BEEN CHANNELED AND TREATED.

THEY ARE CALLED UPON TO MAKE A COSMIC JUMP IN ORDER TO REALLY VIEW THEMSELVES AS PERFECTLY EQUAL TO MEN.

I AM IN CONGRESS.

WHY ARE THERE ONLY 17% OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

THAT SAYS EVERYTHING TO ME.

WHEN THESE WOMEN HAVE LEADERSHIP POSITIONS THROUGHOUT OUR SOCIETY.

AND THAT IS REFLECTED IN EVERY IMPORTANT LEVEL OF WORK IN OUR SOCIETY AND THROUGHOUT THE WORLD.

>> NO QUESTION THAT THE PIPELINE TO ADVANCEMENT HAS A LEAK IN IT.

IT'S LEAKING OUT TALENTED PEOPLE.

>> 17% WOMEN.

THAT I FOUND THAT FIGURE STAGGERING.

>> RIGHT.

AND THE THING IS OVERWHELM TIMES THE REQUIREMENTS CHANGE.

WE USED TO SAY IF YOU GO TO A LINE JOB THAT YOU CAN GET AHEAD.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE A LINE JOB?

BUT YOU HAVE TO HAVE GLOBAL EXPERIENCE YOU HAVE TO HAVE LIVED OUTSIDE OF THE UNITED STATES.

>> LAST SHORT WORD.

>> OK. WELL, I WOULD SAY TIE YOURSELF TO THE BUDGET BECAUSE IT SHOWS THAT WOMEN ADVANCE FURTHER WHEN THEY ARE HOLDING THE PURSE STRINGS AND CAN DO THE PROMOTIONS AND HAS A LOT TO DO WITH COMPENSATION.

>> AND GET IN EARLY ALL THE START-UPS.

LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK.

FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER @BONNIEERBE.

FROM WOMEN AND WORK TO PLANNED-PARENTHOOD.

DESPITE CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN ATTACKS, AND TELEVISED CONGRESSIONAL HEARINGS TO DEFUND, IT APPEARS THE AMERICAN PUBLIC CONTINUES TO SUPPORT PLANNED-PARENTHOOD A NATIONWIDE "USA TODAY" SUFFOLK UNIVERSITY POLL FINDS AMERICANS BACK GOVERNMENT SUPPORT FOR THE GROUP BY MORE THAN 2 TO 1 AND 4 TO 1 AMERICANS TOLD POLLSTERS OPPONENTS SHOULD NOT FORCE A GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN OVER THIS ISSUE.

PLANNED-PARENTHOOD PRESIDENT CECILE RICHARDS FACED OFF WITH G.O.P.

HOUSE MEMBERS WHO GRILLED HER ABOUT THE ORGANIZATION'S BUDGET, HER SALARY AND THE CONTROVERSIAL VIDEOTAPES THAT STARTED THIS LATEST BATTLE.

RICHARDS SAYS SHE IS PROUD OF HER GROUP'S WORK SUPPORTING FETAL TISSUE RESEARCH AND SHE CALLED THE DOCTORED VIDEOS OF THE EMPLOYEES ARE MISLEADING AND PART OF A SMEAR CAMPAIGN.

>> AND THAT POLL THAT WE REPORTED ON CAME OUT JUST AFTER SHE HAD TESTIFIED.

AND THE NUMBERS WERE UP WITH SUPPORT FOR PLANNED-PARENTHOOD WAS UP OVER WHAT IT HAD BEEN.

>> PROBABLY THE WAY SHE WAS TREATED IN THE HEARING HAD A LOT TO DO WITH THAT.

>> WHAT IS NEXT?

>> I THINK WHAT IS NEXT IS THEY ARE GOING TO KICK THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD TO DECEMBER.

AND -- >> THEY HAVE DONE THAT, RIGHT?

BUT MY -- WHAT HAPPENS IN DECEMBER?

THE PROBLEM DOESN'T GO AWAY.

>> THE PROBLEM DOESN'T GO AWAY AND OF COURSE ELEANOR CAN ADDRESS THIS BETTER AN I CAN, BUT YOU KNOW THE POLITICIANS AND PARTICULARLY THE REPUBLICAN POLITICIANS WILL HAVE TO LOOK AT THE NUMBERS AND SEE IF THEY ARE WILLING TO SHUTDOWN THE GOVERNMENT OVER DEFUNDING PLANNED-PARENTHOOD BECAUSE IT WILL COME UP AGAIN.

>> DO YOU THINK THEY CARE?

THE 28 MEN WHO SIGNED THE LETTER THAT BROUGHT ABOUT BOEHNER'S RESIGNATION?

>> WHAT CAN BE OPPOSED TO FEDERAL FUNDING FOR PLANNED-PARENTHOOD AS I AM.

AND THINK IT IS A TERRIBLE IDEA TO TAKE THAT POSITION AND TO SHUT THE GOVERNMENT DOWN.

WHICH I OPPOSE.

SO I MEAN, I THINK THE WHOLE QUESTION OF FUNDING FOR PLANNED-PARENTHOOD YOU KNOW, IT REALLY PROBABLY WOULD TAKE THE REPUBLICANS BEING IN CONTROL OF THE SENATE AND THE HOUSE AND A PRESIDENT IN THE WHITE HOUSE WHO IS SYMPATHETIC TO UPHOLDING THE BILL.

PLANNED-PARENTHOOD WOULD EXIST WITHOUT FEDERAL FUNDINGMENT AND ONE OF THE THINGS -- >> 500 MILLION A YEAR MAINLY IN MEDICARE REIMBURSEMENTS RIGHT?

>> BUT 86% OF THEIR OPERATING REVENUE COMES FROM PERFORMING ABORTIONS WHICH RECEIVES NO FEDERAL FUNDS.

>> THAT IS NOT TRUE.

I SERVED ON THE NATIONAL BOARD OF PLANNED-PARENTHOOD.

I KNOW OUR BUDGET I KNOW WHERE OUR MONEY CAME FROM.

THE BULK CAME FROM CON STRA EXCEPTION AND SALES.

SO OBAMACARE AND OFFERING FREE CONTRACEPTION WAS NOT NECESSARILY GOOD FOR PLANNED-PARENTHOOD.

>> I WANT -- >> THAT WAS AFTER TAKING OUT ALL OF THE FEDERAL MONEY THAT IS WHAT IS BEING REPORTED AND IT'S REPORTED BY CNN.

>> IT IS A CONTROVERSIAL FIGURE AND I WOULD NOT REPEAT IT.

BECAUSE -- >> LET ME ASK.

IT SEEMS TO ME WHEN YOU SEE THESE NUMBERS AND 73% I THINK OF THE AMERICAN PUBLIC DOESN'T WANT A GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN OVER THIS ISSUE.

AND 65% SUPPORT FUNDING WHICH IS A PRETTY OVERWHELMING MAJORITY GIVEN THE CONTROVERSY SURROUNDING THIS TOPIC.

WAIT.

DOESN'T IT POINT TO FOR THE EXTREMISTS IN THE PARTY TO KEEP FIGHTING THIS FIGHT, DON'T THEY PLAY INTO THE WAR ON WOMEN RHETORIC AND ESPECIALLY WITH PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS COMING UP NEXT YEAR, DON'T THEY CONTINUE THE VIEW OF THEIR OPPOSITION TO NOT JUST ABORTION BUT REALLY, BIRTH CONTROL?

>> IF YOU TOOK THAT $500 MILLION AND GAVE IT TO COMMUNITY WOMEN'S HEALTH GROUPS THAT PERFORM MAMMOGRAMS, WHERE NOT A SINGLE PLANNED-PARENTHOOD HAS A MAMMOGRAM MACHINE.

>> DOES IT FORCE THEM TO OUTSOURCE IT.

>> ALL RIGHT BUT TAKE THAT MONEY.

THE REASON AMERICANS SUPPORT PLANNED-PARENTHOOD FOR WHAT DEBRA SUGGESTED FOR CONTRACEPTION.

AND THOSE SERVICES OUGHT TO BE SUPPORTED AND THEY OUGHT TO BE SUPPORTED.

>> AND THEY ARE SUPPORTED.

WHY DO YOU THINK FOR 99 YEARS PLANNED-PARENTHOOD HAS RECEIVED THE SUPPORT?

IT'S BEEN DOING ABORTIONS AS LONG AS THEY HAVE BEEN LEGAL.

IT'S BUILT ITS REPUTATION FOR GOING WHERE NOBODY ELSE GOES INCLUDING OUR CENTERS WHICH SERVE THE POOR, AND SETTING UP WHERE THEY ARE MOST NEEDED LOW INCOME NEIGHBORHOODS, NEIGHBORHOODS OF COLOR, NEIGHBORHOODS WHERE THERE ARE YOUNG WOMEN WITHOUT HEALTH INSURANCE AND WITH THAT 99-YEAR RECORD FOR REPUBLICANS TO THINK THEY CAN YANK THAT OUT AND THAT THE PUBLIC HAS NO HISTORIC MEMORY IS BEING WRONG EVERYDAY.

I WAS IN THE HEARING.

IT WAS OUR COMMITTEE.

THE INCLING OF WHAT THEY MIGHT HAVE CAUGHT IT ON THEY HARDLY TOUCHED AND THAT IS WHETHER THEY WERE SELLING THIS FETAL TISSUE THE AND THE REASON THEY DID NOT TOUCH IT IS BECAUSE THERE IS NOT A SINGLE PERSON IN THE UNITED STATES WHO HAS NOT BENEFITED FROM WHAT AMOUNTS TO TWO DECADES OF LEGAL CONTRIBUTORY, ALL CONTRIBUTED USE OF FETAL TISSUE FOR EVERY VACCINE THAT WE NOW USE FROM POLIO TO MEASLES, AND NOW THEY ARE FINDING WAYS TO GET AT THE REALLY HARD ONES LIKE ALZHEIMER'S AND PARKINSON'S.

>> ONE THING WE DO KNOW IT BECOMES A TOUGH POLITICAL ISSUE IN THE MIDDLE OF A PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN.

POLLS WILL REFLECT THAT.

THE SOCIEITAL ISSUE WHETHER IT'S FOR STEM CELL RESEARCH OR THE TREATMENT OF THE FETUSES.

I DON'T KNOW THAT WE ACTUALLY HAVE, I THINK THERE'S GOOD THINGS THAT COME OUT OF PLANNED-PARENTHOOD AS IT RELATES TO SOME OF THE SERVICES THEY PROVIDE.

BUT I ALSO THINK THERE ARE SERIOUSLY CONTROVERSIAL ISSUES AND I THINK THAT IS THE PART THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS TO ADDRESS.

>> AND WE ARE OUT OF TIME.

BEHIND THE HEADLINES MEN AS CAREGIVERSCH JUST SO HAPPENS, ANNE-MARIE SLAUGHTER'S NEW BOOK CAME OUT IN THE SAME WEEK AS THE STUDY WE TALKED ABOUT.

SLAUGHTER IS THE WOMAN WHO REIGNITED THE QUESTION: CAN WOMEN HAVE IT ALL?

AFTER LEAVING THE CLINTON STATE DEPARTMENT.

SLAUGHTER NOW SAYS MAYBE WE NEED A NEW LENS THROUGH WHICH WE LOOK AT THE ISSUE.

THE BOOK IS CALLED UNFINISHED BUSINESS.

>> I THINK WE ARE STUCK BECAUSE WE ARE FOCUSING ONLY ON WOMEN.

AND ALTHOUGH I'M ALL FOR PROMOTING WOMEN AND ELECTING WOMEN, I THINK WE ARE MISSING THE LARGER PIECE OF THIS PUZZLE.

WHICH IS THAT WE NEED TO REVALUE CARE.

AND WE NEED TO EXPAND CHOICES AND ROLES FOR MEN.

>> ANNE-MARIE SLAUGHTER WAS A RISING STAR IN THE CLINTON STATE DEPARTMENT.

SHE SEEMED POISED FOR A POSSIBLE PROMOTION.

BUT SHE ABRUPTLY LEFT HER HIGH POWERED JOB TO RETURN HOME TO PRINCETON HER FAMILY AND AN ACADEMIC CAREER.

HER COMMUTE BETWEEN WASHINGTON D.C. AND NEW JERSEY WAS AFFECTING HER FAMILY.

ONE OF HER SONS WAS GETTING IN TROUBLE.

SHE USED HER EXPERIENCE TO ILLUSTRATE WHY WOMEN COULD NOT HAVE IT ALL.

SHE QUESTIONED WHETHER THERE WAS SOME WAY SHE COULD HAVE STAYED AT THE STATE DEPARTMENT AFTER MANY OTHER MARRIED WOMEN WITH CHILDREN HAD BEEN SUCCESSFUL.

>> WE CAN ALL POINT TO WOMEN WHO CAN MAKE IT WORK.

AND COUPLES WHO CAN MAKE IT WORK.

BUT WHAT I REALIZED WAS THERE ARE FAR MORE WHO HIT SOME KIND OF A TIPPING POINT.

FOR ME IT WAS COMMUTING.

BUT IN OTHER CASES IT IS A DIVORCE, A DEATH, A CHILD WITH SPECIAL NEEDS.

THERE ARE A MILLION REASONS WHY SUDDENLY THAT CAREFULLY CONSTRUCTED BALANCE TIPS AND WHEN THAT HAPPENS, OUR RESPONSE SHOULD NOT BE, I GUESS SHE DROPPED OUT OR OPTED OUT OR SACRIFICED HER CAREER FOR HER FAMILY.

>> IT WAS A JUDGMENT SLAUGHTER RECOGNIZED BECAUSE SHE FELT THE SAME WAY ABOUT OTHER WOMEN IN THE PAST.

>> I -- I REALIZED THE NARRATIVE I HAD GROWN-UP WITH THAT OF COURSE YOU WOULD FIT WORK AND FAMILY TOGETHER IF YOU JUST WANT TO DO BADLY ENOUGH AND TRIED HARD ENOUGH WAS WAY TOO SIMPLE AND THAT ACTUALLY IF THEY WOMAN LIKE ME COULD NOT MAKE IT WORK THEN IN FACT, IT WAS SO MUCH HARDER FOR MOST OTHER WOMEN OR CAREGIVERS WE NEEDED TO RETHINK THIS.

>> AND BEGAN CONSIDERING WHY WOMEN SEEKING FINANCIAL INDEPENDENCE AND PROFESSIONAL SUCCESS RELY ON A MALE MODEL OF ACHIEVEMENT.

>> I GREW UP WANTING TO BE LIKE MY DAD.

MY MOTHER WAS A HOMEMAKER AND MY FATHER WAS A LAWYER AND IT SEEMED TO ME TO BE VALUABLE AND A PERSON OF WORTH YOU WANTED TO BE LIKE YOUR DAD.

BUT I LOOK AT MY MOTHER'S WORK OF NOT ONLY RAISING THREE SUCCESSFUL, PRODUCTIVE HAPPY CHILDREN, BUT ALSO KNITTING A WIDER FAMILY TOGETHER.

AND I NOW THINK THOSE TWO BODIES OF WORK ARE EQUAL.

>> SLAUGHTER BELIEVES THERE NEEDS TO BE ONE LEAD PARENT.

WHILE MORE MILLENNIAL MEN ARE THE LEAD IT'S CHALLENGING FOR MANY MEN TO PUT THEIR WIFE'S CAREERS AHEAD OF THEIR OWN.

>> WE'VE CHANGED THE NORMS AROUND WHAT IS FEMININE YOU CAN BE A WOMAN C.E.O.

AND LIKE SHOES BUT WE HAVE A OUTDATED NOTION OF MASCULINITY AND IF YOU ARE NOT TRYING TO CLIMB THE HEIRARCHY OR THE BIG BREAD WINNER YOU ARE MASCULINITY IS IN QUESTION.

>> SAME SEX COUPLES WHO MAKE THE DECISIONS DEVOID OF JENTER STEREOTYPES MAY PROVIDE A MODEL FOR SOCIETY.

>> WHEN TWO MEN OR TWO WOMEN DECIDE THEY ASK THE QUESTIONS WE ALL SHOULD ASK, WHO IS MAKING MORE MONEY?

WHAT HAS MORE AMBITION?

WHO HAS A BETTER BOSS?

WHAT WANTS TO BE MORE WITH THE KIDS?

>> ONE OF SLAUGHTER'S SUGGESTIONS FOR WORK-LIFE BALANCE IS INTERVAL TRAINING A PATH THAT LOOKS SIMILAR TO THE MOMMY OR DADDY TRACK.

>> YOU COULD SAY I'M GOING HARD I AM IN AN INTENSE INTERVAL OR SAY I'M TAKING TIME AND I'M FOCUSING ON BEING A LEAD PARENT OR TAKING CARE OF MY OWN PARENTS.

AND THEN YOU COULD GO HARD AGAIN.

AND AGAIN THESE ARE THESE CHANGES ARE CULTURAL.

>> SLAUGHTER IS INTERESTED IN EQUALITY AND FAIRNESS FOR WOMEN NOT AT THE TOP.

SHE SAYS IT'S NOT A PROBLEM THAT SHOULD BE DEALT WITH INDIVIDUALLY.

ONE WOMAN AT A TIME.

IT REQUIRES POLITICAL, CORPORATE AND SOCIAL ACTION.

>> BALANCE IS A LUXURY.

BUT EQUALITY IS A NECESSITY.

AND ONE OF THE REASONS I'M FOCUSING ON CARE IS BECAUSE WE HAVE TOO FEW WOMEN AT THE TOP AND WAY TOO MANY WOMEN AT THE BOTTOM.

AND THAT IS PART OF THE SAME DEVALUING OF CARE.

WHAT IS HAPPENING AT THE BOTTOM IS THAT WOMEN HAVE NO CHOICE ABOUT BEING THE BREAD WINNER AND THE CAREGIVER.

THEY ARE SINGLE MOMS, THEY ARE SUPPORTING CHILDREN AND OTHER FAMILY MEMBERS.

AND WE ARE NOT PROVIDING THE SUPPORTS AND THAT IS A MUCH, MUCH BIGGER SOCIAL PROBLEM THAN NOT HAVING ENOUGH WOMEN IN THE C SUITE.

>> AND LET'S REMEMBER ALL THE UNMARRIED MOTHERS OUT THERE WHO HAD CHILDREN ON THEIR OWN.

THEY DON'T HAVE A PARTNER NECESSARILY TO BE ABLE TO HELP THEM WITH THIS STUFF.

SO WHAT IS THE WAY FORWARD?

>> WELL, I THINK THE WHOLE QUESTION OF BALANCE IS AN IMPORTANT ONE.

AND WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT FOR SOME OF US, LIFE IS MORE THAN ABOUT OUR PAYCHECK OR ABOUT THE STATUS THAT WE HAVE OR WHETHER OR NOT WE GET TO THE TOP OF THE LADDER.

AND HAVING A BALANCE, HAVING A WELL ROUNDED LIFE AND A FAMILY LIFE, AND HAVING A PERSONAL LIFE IS VERY IMPORTANT.

THAT IS ONE OF THE REASONS I THINK WOMEN ARE MORE GROUNDED.

WHEN YOU READ THE McKINSEY STUDY AND SOME WOMEN ARE SAYING THAT GEE THEY DON'T LIKE THE STRESS.

WHY SHOULD WE BE BEMOANING THAT?

YEAH, YOU ARE RIGHT.

AND WE WOULD BE ALL BETTER OFF IF AS A SOCIETY IF PEOPLE WERE NOT QUITE SO TOTALLY FOCUSED ON CAREERS.

>> YOU KNOW, IN STRESSING AND AGE OF FEMINISM AND EQUALITY THAT WOMEN ARE ENTITLED TO BE PERCEIVED EQUALLY AND TO EQUAL OPPORTUNITY I THINK MANY HAVE FORGOTTEN THE UNDERLYING MESSAGE OF FEMINISM WHICH WAS CHOICE.

IS WE OUGHT TO BE FREE TO BE WHEREVER LIFE LEADS US.

AND WE HAVEN'T BEEN.

WE HAVE BEEN PIGEONHOLED AND TO A TINY PART OF SOCIETY BUT FEMINISM NEVER SAID UNLESS YOU ARE A CAREER WOMAN SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH YOU.

AND THAT UNDERSTANDING OF THE BREADTH OF FEMINISM NEEDS TO BE INCORPORATED HOW WE LOOK AT WHAT THIS VIDEO TELLS US.

>> ARE YOU SAYING WOMEN SHOULD BE LESS AMBITIOUS?

>> I'M SAYING THAT WOMEN'S AMBITION IS WHAT WE ARE PROMOTING WITHOUT SAYING THAT TO GET OUT OF THE CUBBY HOLE WE HAVE BEEN PUT IN YOU NEED TO HAVE THE SAME AMBITION AS MEN.

AND PEOPLE WHO PUT FAMILY FIRST SHOULD NOT BE PUT DOWN IN A SOCIETY WHERE THE CHILDREN ARE ALL OVER THE MAP AND WORK HARD TO SEE WHERE MANY ARE GOING TODAY.

>> I'M PLEASED TO SEE THAT THE NEW GENERATION OF MILLENNIALS YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE A SAME SEX COUPLE TO TALK ABOUT WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT WANTS TO GET AHEAD OR WHERE IS THE OPPORTUNITY GOING TO BE.

SO THEY ARE MAKING THE DECISION TOGETHER.

AND MY OTHER POINT IS I TALK TO SO MANY WOMEN WHO SAY I HAVE SO MANY BALLS IN THE AIR.

TALK ABOUT BALANCE, I'M CALLING IT DON'T LET IT DROP BECAUSE I CANNOT GET TO IT.

I THINK BALANCE IS NOT A LUXURY.

I THINK BALANCE IS A NECESSITY TO STAY HEALTHY.

>> YEAH.

BUT THAT IS TO THE POINT.

THE WOMEN ARE JUGGLING ALL THE BALLS AND THEY ARE UP IN THE AIR AND I LIKE THE POINT SHE MADE MAYBE WE NEED TO LOOK AT MALE ROLES AND FREEING UP MALE ROLES AND FREE UP THE MEN MAYBE WE CAN FREE UP OURSELVES.

>> AND THAT HAS BEEN SINCE I WAS A TEENAGER THAT MEN WOULD DO HALF THE WORK AND THEREFORE LESS STILL SOME DAYCARE BUT LESS DAYCARE WOULD BE NEEDED.

FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER AND VISIT OUR WEBSITE PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.

AND WHETHER YOU AGREE OR THINK TO THE CONTRARY SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

[♪♪♪] FOR A TRANSCRIPT OR TO SEE AN ON-LINE VERSION OF THIS EPISODE OF TO THE CONTRARY VISIT OUR PBS WEBSITE AT PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.

[♪♪♪