THIS WEEK ON TO THE CONTRARY.•• FIRST, THE FIANCÉÉ VISA AND THE SAN BERNARDINO TERROR ATTACK.

THEN, THUMBS UP FOR THE STAY AT HOME DAD?

AND BEHIND THE HEADLINES: JANE GOODALL ON HOW HER WORK WITH CHIMPS MADE HER A WOMEN'S RIGHTS ADVOCATE.

[♪♪♪] HELLO, I'M BONNIE ERBE.

WELCOME TO TO THE CONTRARY, A DISCUSSION OF NEWS AND SOCIAL TRENDS FROM DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES.

UP FIRST, THE FIANCÉÉ VISA.

WE CONTINUE TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THE COUPLE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE TERROR ATTACK THAT KILLED 14 IN SAN BERNARDINO.

ACCORDING TO THE FBI SYED FAROOK AND TAFSHEEN MALIK HAD ONLINE DISCUSSIONS ABOUT JIHAD AND MARTYRDOM.

THOSE CONVERSATIONS TOOK PLACE BEFORE THEY WERE MARRIED AND PRIOR TO MALIK COMING TO THE UNITED STATES.

MALIK, A PAKISTANI NATIVE RECEIVED A SO-CALLED FIANCÉÉ VISA, BRINGING IMMIGRATION VETTING PRACTICES UNDER GREAT SCRUTINY.

THE FIANCÉÉ VISA PROGRAM REQUIRES AT LEAST ONE IN-PERSON INTERVIEW, FINGERPRINTS, CHECKS AGAINST U.S.

TERRORIST WATCH LISTS AND REVIEWS OF FAMILY MEMBERS, TRAVEL HISTORY AND PLACES WHERE A PERSON HAS LIVED AND WORKED.

MALIK WAS ONE OF 519 PAKISTANIS WHO CAME TO THE COUNTRY LAST YEAR TO MARRY A US CITIZEN.

SO CONGRESSWOMAN DO WE CONSIDER FEMALE TERRORISTS OUTLIARS AND THEREFORE WE DO NOT SCRUTINIZE THEM HARD ENOUGH?

>> UNTIL NOW THEY HAVE BEEN OUTLIARS AND WITH THE EMERGENCE OF THE EQUAL OPPORTUNITY IN SAN BERNADINO THERE GOES ANOTHER STEREOTYPE.

>> WE HAVE ALWAYS HIGHLIGHTED THAT WOMEN ARE PERPETRATORS AS WELL AND WE HAVE SEEN THAT TREND ALL OVER THE WORLD.

>> LAW ENFORCEMENT HAS GIVEN WOMEN LESS SCRUTINY AND IT'S TIME TO CHANGE THAT.

>> I THINK WE HAVE LOOKED AT 'ENVIRONMENT WHERE ASSIMILATION IS NO LONGER GENDER NEUTRAL AND WE HAVE TO PAY ATTENTION TO HOW ISIS IS USING WOMEN TO THEIR ADVANTAGE.

>> THE FIANCEE VISA SHE WAS ONE OF 519 PAKISTANIS TO COME IN BUT DOES IT MAKE IT WORTH CHANGING?

>> IT'S INTERESTING TO SEE MY GOOD REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES ALL SAY WELL WE DON'T REALLY NEED TO LOOK MORE CLOSELY AT THE FIANCEE VISA.

WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE PROMOTE MARRIAGE AND IN EFFECT, BUT THE TERRORIST LIST THE NO FLY LIST WHAT IS PART OF IT SHOWS THAT UP TO 90% OF THE PEOPLE ON THE TERRORIST LIST HAVE AMONG THEM PEOPLE, 2000 WHO HAVE IN FACT, BEEN ABLE TO BUY GUNS AND EXPLOSIVES AND MY REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES HAVE VOTED DOWN THE DENYING A GUN OR EXPLOSIVE TO SOMEBODY ON THE TERRORIST LIST.

WE OUGHT TO LOOK MORE CLOSELY AT THE FIANCEE VISA EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE SCRUTINIZED VERY, VERY CLOSELY AND ONLY THREE 10THS OF 1%.

>> HOW DID THEY MISS MALIK IF THEY ARE SCRUTINIZED?

SHE HAD INTERNET ACTIVITY BEFORE SHE CAME HERE SHOWING SHE WAS PLEDGING HONOR TO THE JIHAD.

>> YEAH.

THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE MISSED HER AT ALL.

AND WE DO HAVE STRICT REQUIREMENTS.

MY SON WORKS IN THE INTERNATIONAL INSTITUTE IN ST. LOUIS AND WORKS WITH SYRIAN REFUGEES NOW AND THEY GO THROUGH TWO-AND-A-HALF YEARS OF SCRUTINY BEFORE THEY ARE ALLOWED IN THIS COUNTRY.

WHAT HAPPENED WITH HER?

SOMETHING REALLY SLIPPED UP.

>> WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE FIANCEE VISA.

>> I THINK AMERICANS WANT TO FEEL SAFE AND LOOKING WHAT IS HAPPENING IN CONGRESS WITH RESPECT TO REFUGEES AND THE VISAS WE ARE GOING THROUGH A PROCESS OF TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO THAT.

IT MAY BE DIFFICULT WE ARE NEVER GOING TO GUARANTEE THAT EVERY PERSON IS NOT SUSCEPTIBLE TO BEING AFFILIATED WITH AN ORGANIZATION LIKE ISIS.

WE HAVE TO EVALUATE THAT AND THE NOTION OF MARRIAGE THAT IS A SMALL MINORITY OF REPUBLICANS TA TALKING ABOUT THE MARRIAGE AND THE CONTEXT OF FIANCEE VISAS.

>> I THINK WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL BECAUSE THE ISSUES WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IS WAYS TO BRING SAFETY TO AMERICA MAY CREATE THIRD CLASS CITIZENSHIP AND IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE DO NOT PUT SECURITY AS A GUIDE TO OUR VALUES BECAUSE IT WILL LEAD US ASTRAY.

>> WHAT IS THE REACTION THIS IS GETTING AWAY FROM THE FIANCEE VISA, BUT WHAT REACTION IS ARE TRUMP'S CLAIMS IN STOPPING ISLAMIC IMMIGRATION FOR A PERIOD OF TIME.

WHAT IMPACT AND WHAT REACTION ARE THEY GETTING FROM THE AMERICAN MUSLIMS?

>> OVERWHELMING FEAR.

THERE IS A LOT OF FEAR WHERE WE ARE BEGINNING TO QUESTION WHAT IS OUR FUTURE IN THIS COUNTRY.

AND IT'S FRIGHTENING FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE NO OTHER PLACE.

MY FRIENDS ARE JOKING WHERE WOULD WE GO IF TRUMP WERE TO WIN AND WE ARE CONSIDERING AND THE REALITY IS THERE IS NOWHERE FOR US TO GO.

WE ARE HERE AND PART OF THE SOCIAL FABRIC AND WE ARE GOING TO FIGHT FOR OUR PLACE WITHIN THE PUBLIC SQUARE.

>> YOU WROTE A COLUMN THIS WEEK ABOUT QUESTIONING YOUR FAITH AFTER SAN BERNADINO AFTER THESE SERIES OF ATTACKS TELL US ABOUT THAT.

>> ANYONE WHO IS A PERSON OF FAITH IS HAVING TO HAVE THESE FAITH SHAKING EXPERIENCES.

AND THE AMOUNT OF VLT VIOLENCE THAT IS TAKING PLACE IN THE NAME OF ISLAM HAS FORCED ME TO GO BACK AND ASK OURSELVES THE HARD QUESTIONS.

I SEE THIS AS AN OPPORTUNITY WHERE PEOPLE CAN SAY WHAT DO WE NEED TO SHIFT AND CHANGE WITHIN ISLAM AND THE WAY WE ARE RESPONDING TO REFUGEES IT IS A MOMENT OF TRUTH FOR AMERICA TO THINK ABOUT OUR VALUES AND HOW WE WANT TO PRACTICE THEM NOT JUST PREACH THEM.

>> YOUR THOUGHTS?

>> I AGREE IT MUST BE SCARY AND THAT MAKES ME SAD TO HEAR THAT.

AND THAT WE ARE THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

AND THAT THIS IS WHAT WE ARE DOING TO PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN OUR COUNTRY.

SO MUCH OF THIS, I BELIEVE, IS FUELED PERHAPS BY RELIGIOUS FERVOR BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT IS IN MY OPINION CAUSING THE ATTACKS ON AMERICAN SOIL.

I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT OUR POLICIES WHAT WE HAVE BEEN DOING IN THE MIDDLE EAST OVER THE YEARS.

I MEAN WE HAVE BEEN -- >> WHAT DO YOU THINK IS FUELING THE ATTACKS LIKE SAN BERNADINO?

>> I THINK THAT ISIS USES RELIGION TO GET PEOPLE TO DO THINGS.

BUT I DO NOT THINK THAT IS WHAT IT'S REALLY ABOUT.

IT'S NOT ABOUT YOUR RELIGION IS HERE AND MINE IS HERE.

I THINK IT'S ABOUT WHAT WE HAVE BEEN DOING OVER THE YEARS WITH OVER THROWING PEOPLE AND OIL IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND THEY WANT THE WESTERN WORLD OUT.

>> I FOUND IT IMPORTANT THIS WEEK THAT YOU SAW SPEAKER RYAN AND McCONNELL COME OUT AND DENOUNCE THE COMMENTS MADE BY DONALD TRUMP.

>> HE IS AT WAR WITH HIS OWN PARTY AND AS AS WITH MUSLIMS.

>> THAT IS HOW THE REPUBLICANS ARE BEING PORTRAYED THE ONES ANTI-MUSLIM AND WHAT DONALD TRUMP IS DOING IS FEEDING INTO THIS SORT OF CULTURAL FEARS THAT ARE GOING ON AND FUELING THE FIRE.

HIS CAMPAIGN HAS BEEN ABOUT CREATING THE CHARACTERS.

HE IS FIRST ON THE LATINO AND NOW MOVED ON TO ANTI-MUSLIM TO FUEL HIS POLLING NUMBERS.

AND IT'S NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

>> INTERESTINGLY TRUMP'S BUSINESS INTERESTS MAY BE BEGINNING TO BE HURT.

QATAR TOOK DOWN HIS CLOTHING LINE AND THEY ARE TAKING DOWN THE SIPES AND MAYBE THAT WILL GET TO HIM BECAUSE NOTHING ELSE HAS.

>> I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE REACTION TO ISLAMIC WOMEN IN AMERICA.

OBVIOUSLY ARE MORE -- FOR THE HATERS OUT THERE YOU ARE MORE OBVIOUS THAN ISLAMIC MEN.

HOW HAVE YOU BEEN THINKING ABOUT THAT?

>> I MEAN WE ARE MORE VISIBLE AND MUSLIM WOMEN ARE NOT DIFFERENT.

WOMEN ARE SEEN AS SOFT TARGETS WHEN COMMUNITIES ARE TARGETED.

WE ARE MORE VISIBLE AND IT'S FRIGHTENING BUT WHAT THE REALIZATION IS IT'S NO LONGER ABOUT TRUMP.

WHEN I AM GETTING YELLED AM AND SHOVED ON THE SIDEWALK HERE IN WASHINGTON D.C.

IT'S HARD FOR ME TO SAY THIS IS AN ISOLATED INCIDENT OF TRUMP AND RHETORIC BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE PICKING UP THE MESSAGE AND TAKING ACTION AND A LOT IS VIOLENT AGAINST OUR COMMUNITY.

>> DO YOU EVER THINK ABOUT TAKING OFF THE HEAD SCARF.

>> MY FAMILY BEGGING ME AND IF I THOUGHT I WAS IN DANGER I WOULD.

IT IS ALLOWED UNDER ISLAM FOR PROTECTION TO TAKE IT OFF.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME IT'S WORTH FIGHTING FOR BECAUSE IT IS A SYMBOL OF FREEDOM OF RELIGION IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT ISLAM IT IS A CHALLENGE.

I'M PROUD OF AMERICAN VALUES.

WE HAVE A LOT OF OUR HISTORY THAT WE HAVE TO MAKE AMENDS FOR BUT I BELIEVE IN THE FREEDOM OF RELIGION AND FREEDOM OF SPEECH STUFF WE TALK ABOUT AND IT'S WORTH FIGHTING FOR WHICH IS WEARING THE SCARF MEANS TO ME IN ADDITION TO MY RELIGIOUS DUTY.

>> AND IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE, TOO, THAT ISIS WANTS THIS TO TURN INTO AN ARMAGEDDON TO FULFILL THE PROVEFIES OF THE CHRISTIANS AND THE MUSLIMS GOING TO WAR AND THE END OF THE EARTH.

>> BUT WHAT ABOUT THE FACT THAT TRUMP IS GETTING SO MUCH SUPPORT FROM THE LET'S FACE IT, THE VOTERS THE PRIMARY VOTERS WHO IN BOTH PARTIES ARE THE MOST EXTREME BUT THE FACT THAT HE IS GETTING THE SUPPORT WHAT DOES IT SAY ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON WITH IMMIGRATION IN AMERICA?

TO ME IT SAYS THERE ARE PEOPLE OBVIOUSLY SOME OF THEM ARE RACIST, I DON'T KNOW WHAT PERCENTAGE, BUT WHAT ABOUT PEOPLE WHO FEEL THAT THE GOVERNMENT BOTH PARTIES ARE NOT HAVING OR LETTING THE PUBLIC HAVE AB OPEN DEBATE ABOUT IMMIGRATION?

>> WELL, IF THIS IS AN OPEN DEBATE ABOUT IMMIGRATION YOU WILL NEVER HAVE ONE.

I MEAN IN FACT, THE PARTIES ARE DIVIDED ON IT.

DEMOCRATS TENDING TO SPEAK UP TO SAY YOU OUGHT TO LET THE SYRIAN REFUGEES IN.

THEY ARE SMALL IN NUMBER.

THE ONLY ONES THAT GET IN ARE WOMEN AND CHILDREN.

WHAT ARE WE AFRAID OF AND THEN WE SAY THE LIE WE'VE LOVED IMMIGRANTS.

IT'S IMPORTANT TO SEE THIS IN CONTEXT.

WE'VE HATED IMMIGRANTS.

WHEN THE IRISH AND THE ITALIANS AND THE POLES CAME THERE WAS BIGOTRY.

AFTER THEY ASSIMILATED INTO THE LARGER MOSTLY WHITE POPULATION LOOK AT CONGRESS TODAY EVERY OTHER NAME IS AN IRISH ANAME.

IT DOES BUT IN THE BEGINNING IT'S HARD.

THE DIFFERENCE WITH THE MUSLIMS IS THAT OTHER IMMIGRANTS WITH FEW EXCEPTIONS HAVE NOT BEEN ASSOCIATED WITH VIOLENCE.

THAT IS WHY THEY [INAUDIBLE] ALL THE JEWS, STRAIGHT OUT STEREOTYPING.

THIS IS RELATED FRANKLY TO THE IRAQ WAR.

AFTER THE IRAQ WAR WE ARE REAPING THE TERRIBLE STORM.

>> LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER.

FROM TERRORISM TO THE END OF MOMMY WARS.

WHO SHOULD BE THE STAY-AT-HOME PARENT?

ACCORDING TO NEW RESEARCH, IT DOESN'T MATTER.

THE ONCE TRADITIONAL FAMILY WITH MOTHER AS CAREGIVER AND FATHER AS BREADWINNER IS NOW AN ANCIENT PARADIGM.

RESEARCH CONDUCTED BY TWO UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA PROFESSORS FOUND 92-PERCENT OF AMERICANS SUPPORT MOTHERS WORKING AND 77-PERCENT SAY IT'S OK FOR THE DADS TO STAY HOME.

IT'S A MAJOR SHIFT FROM A 2007 PEW STUDY THAT FOUND 40-PERCENT OF PEOPLE SURVEYED THOUGHT IT WAS BAD FOR SOCIETY WHEN MOTHERS WORKED.

ONLY 20% THOUGHT IT WAS BENEFICIAL.

BUT PERCEPTIONS HAVE CHANGED.

THE EXPECTATION THAT FATHERS MUST BE THE PROVIDERS FOR THE FAMILY HAS DIMINISHED.

WITH 70% OF MOTHERS AND 93% OF FATHERS WORKING, FAMILY INCOME, NOT GENDER HAS BECOME THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR WHEN DECIDING WHICH PARENT STAYS HOME WITH THE KIDS.

SO JENNIFER, TO ME THIS IS A SEA CHANGE AND IT IS A SEA CHANGE THAT I THOUGHT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN IN MY BOOMER GENERATION BUT HAS WAITED UNTIL YOUR MILLENNIAL GENERATION TO TAKE PLACE.

GOOD NEWS AS FAR AS YOU ARE CONCERNED?

>> IT'S FAN-TASTIC NEWS.

YOU ARE SEEING THE CONVERSATION SHIFTED FROM NOT JUST MOTHERS VERSUS FATHERS BUT ALLOWING FATHERS AND EARNING POTENTIAL FOR FAMILIES TO CHANGE HOW MOTHERS ARE PERCEIVED AND FAMILIES ARE GROWING AND EVOLVING IN THE COUNTRY.

>> IT'S GOOD NEWS FOR EQUAL OPPORTUNITY AND BAD NEWS FOR THE AMERICAN ECONOMY.

BECAUSE THE PRACTICAL UNDER PINNING OF THIS IS THAT THE AMERICAN FAMILY CANNOT KEEP EVEN IF WITHOUT TWO PEOPLE WORKING.

THE PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT ARE THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE ONE PERSON WORKING AND THAT IS USUALLY SINGLE MOTHERS.

THIS HAS BEEN 40 YEARS OF NO GROWTH IN INCOME EXCEPT FOR WOMEN GOING INTO THE WORKFORCE.

AMERICANS ARE ACCEPTING IT BECAUSE THEY KNOW WHICH SIDE THEIR BREAD IS BUTTERED ON.

>> IT DID NOT USED TO BE A CHOICE.

I MEAN BACK IN THE 50s AND 60s.

THE MOTHER WAS ALWAYS EXPECTED TO STAY HOME.

AND THE FATHER WAS EXPECTED TO GO OUT AND EARN A LIVING.

AND IN THIS ENVIRONMENT, I'VE SEEN STUDIES THAT HAVE COME OUT OVER THE YEARS WHERE THERE IS A LARGE CHUNK OF WORKING WOMEN WHO EARN MORE THAN THEIR SPOUSES OR PARTNERS ARE EARNING SO THEY ARE WORKING OUTSIDE THE HOME AND THAT IS GROWING.

SO -- >> I THINK THE CHOICE THE FACT IT IS A CHOICE IS ABSOLUTELY SOMETHING WE SHOULD CELEBRATE AND IS IMPORTANT ESPECIALLY THAT IT IS A NORMALIZED CHOICE AND NO LONGER HOLDS JUDGMENT BUT IT OFTEN CREATES ADDITIONAL BURDENS FOR WOMEN BECAUSE NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THEY ENTER THE WORKFORCE THERE ARE OTHER RESPONSIBILITIES ARE NOT STOPPED TORE SHARED.

IF MEN ARE STAYING HOME THAT IS A POSITIVE SIGN THAT SOME OF THE RESPONSIBILITY IS BEING SHARED BUT WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT THE TRIPLE BURDEN THAT OFFERING INCOME BUT NOT TAKING AWAY OTHER RESPONSIBILITIES MEANS MORE WORK FOR WOMEN.

>> THAT IS WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY BECAUSE WE HAVE TALKED ON THIS SHOW, TOO, ABOUT HOW WOMEN STILL DO MOST OF THE HOUSEWORK AND WOMEN STILL DO MOST OF THE CHILDCARE AND WOMEN STILL GO TO THE SCHOOLS AND THE PTA'S AND DO MORE OF THAT THAN THE MEN DO.

IT IS CAUSE FOR CELEBRATION.

BUT, IT ALSO MEANS WOMEN ARE STILL DOING MORE.

>> IF WE LOOK BELOW THE FIGURES IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT SOME FOR YOU AND SOME FOR ME.

THE GREATER MAJORITY OF THESE ARE WORKING CLASS MEN, CANNOT FIND EMPLOYMENT.

>> THAT WAS TRUE IN THE GREAT RECESSION WHICH MOST PEOPLE FEEL IS STILL AROUND TO SOME EXTENT BUT MALE EMPLOYMENT IS COMING BACK.

NOW THAT CONSTRUCTION IS GOING BACKUP.

>> IT'S COMING BACK BUT YOU HAVE MEN ON DISABILITY AND MEN MIDDLE-AGED WHO WILL NEVER GET BACK INTO THE WORKFORCE AND A SET OF WORKING CLASS MEN WHOSE FATHERS WOULD HAVE BEEN WORKING AND THEY CANNOT.

>> I WOULD LOVE TO SEE WHAT SWEDEN HAS DONE IS CAPTURE THE WOMEN'S CONTRIBUTION BY DRIVING AND STAYING HOME AND PUT A NUMBER TO IT TO SEE WHAT WOMEN'S CONTRIBUTION TO THE ECONOMY IS.

AND INCLUDING ALL THE INFORMAL SECTORS.

THAT IS ONE OF OUR STRONGEST CONTRIBUTIONS THAT FEEDS INTO ECONOMIC GROWTH.

>> WHAT WOULD YOU THINK THAT GOVERNMENT SHOULD PAY WOMEN FOR THE WORK THEY DO?

>> IT'S NOT CONSIDERED PAY IT'S CONSIDERED UTILITY BUT IT DOES HAVE ECONOMIC BENEFIT AND WE FORGET THAT WE THINK WOMEN STAYING HOME ARE DOING BOTH JOBS AND FEEDING INTO THEIR OWN HOUSEHOLD BUT THEY ARE FEEDING INTO THE ECONOMY AT LARGE.

>> I WONDER IF THIS IS PART OF YOUNGER PEOPLE WE DID A STORY A FEW MONTHS AGO THAT YOUNGER PEOPLE DO NOT THINK THERE ARE TWO GENDERS ANYMORE.

THEY SEE SIX, EIGHT GENDERS.

AND I WONDER SO THE POINT IS, GENDER STEREOTYPES ARE DYING.

AND IS MANIFESTING ITSELF IN MORE WOMEN BEING ABLE TO WORK AND MEN BEING ABLE TO STAY HOME AND BE THE NURTURER IF THAT IS WHAT THEIR PERSONALITY IS.

>> RIGHT.

THAT IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

MEN LIKE HAVING THE CHOICE MANY MEN DO AND MANY MEN ARE NOT THREATENED BY THAT AND IT IS A NEW GENERATION AND THEY DON'T SEE A PROBLEM WITH LGBT ISSUES AND THEY DO NOT SEE A PROBLEM WITH WOMEN WORKING AND MEN STAYING HOME.

IT IS SO VERY MUCH PUSHING THROUGH THOSE OLD STEREOTYPES.

>> WE ARE SEEING MAJOR CHANGES IN THE SOCIEITAL DEFINITION OF GENDER AND THIS IS PART OF IT.

THE QUESTION I HAVE FOR YOU: FEDERALLY SUBSIDIZED DAYCARE IF MEN ARE GOING TO DO HALF THE CHILDCARE AND IT'S 2.2 MILLION MEN AS OF THIS STUDY, NOT 40 MILLION LIKE IT SHOULD BE, BUT IF MEN ARE GOING TO PROVIDE PART OF THE CHILDCARE AND PITCH IN EQUALLY, DOES THAT DO AWAY WITH THE NEED FOR FEDERALLY SUBSIDIZED DAYCARE?

>> I DO NOT THINK IT DOES.

ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS ABOUT THE NUMBERS AROUND STAY AT HOME DADS HAS DOUBLED AND THAT IS BECAUSE OF POLICY CHANGES AND CALIFORNIA WHERE THEY HAVE INSTITUTED PAID LEAVE PROGRAMS AND DADS TAKING PATERNITY LEAVE.

MARK ZUCKERBERG.

AND AGAIN THAT IS THE OPPORTUNITY IS THERE NOW MORE SO THAN IT HAS BEEN FOR DADS TO STAY AT HOME AND SEE POLICIES IMPACTING THEM IN A FAVORABLE WAY AND ALLOWING MOTHERS TO GO BACK INTO THE WORKPLACE AND ADVANCE IN TERMS OF THEIR INCOMES AND ABILITY TO IMPACT THEIR FAMILIES.

>> AND YOUR THOUGHTS?

>> WE BEGIN TO SEE A STAY AT HOME LET THEM PROFESSIONALLY, THEN YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE PERHAPS MORE VOICES FOR THE KIND OF CHILDCARE THAT WE HAVE ALL OVER THE WORLD EXCEPT IN THE UNITED STATES.

>> GOOD POINT.

WE WERE GOING TO BRING YOU THE JANE GOODALL PIECE.

BUT WE WILL BE AIRING IT NEXT WEEK BECAUSE OF BREAKING NEWS.

A SURVEY BY THE RAND CORPORATION SHOWS ELITE SERVICEMEN SEE ALLOWING WOMEN TO SERVE IN NAVY SEAL ARMY DELTA OR COMMANDO UNITS COULD HURT THEIR EFFECTIVENESS AND LOWER THE STANDARDS AND IT MAY DRIVE MEN AWAY FROM THE DANGEROUS POSTS.

AN OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF THOSE WHO AGREED TO RESPOND TO THE SURVEY SAID THEY BELIEVE WOMEN DO NOT HAVE THE PHYSICAL STRENGTH OR MENTAL TOUGHNESS TO DO THE GRUELING JOBS.

SOME 85% OF THE RESPONDENTS SAID THEY OPPOSE OPENING THE SPECIAL OPERATIONS JOBS TO WOMEN AND 70% OPPOSE HAVING WOMEN IN THEIR INDIVIDUAL UNITS.

MORE THAN 80% SAID WOMEN ARE NOT STRONG ENOUGH AND CANNOT HANDLE THE DEMANDS OF THE JOB.

64% SAID THEY ARE NOT MENTALLY TOUGH ENOUGH.

THIS IS SHOCKING TO ME.

AND WE SHOULD ADD THAT MANY -- THIS SURVEY SENT OUT TO 14,000, 15,000 ELITE SERVICEMEN.

AND IT CAME -- THE ANSWERS CAME BACK LACED WITH PROFANITY AND EXTREMELY ANGRY.

I'M FEELING SORRY FOR THE FIRST WOMEN NAVY SEALS WHAT AN ENVIRONMENT TO GO INTO.

>> IT MADE ME THINK OF WHAT HAPPENED BACK IN THE 70s WHEN THEY ALLOWED THE WOMEN TO GO INTO THE NAVAL ACADEMY AND WEST POINT.

I WAS AN ARMY ROTC FOR TWO YEARS IN COLLEGE AND MY FATHER WENT TO WEST POINT AND I HEARD THE ARGUMENTS ALL THE TIME.

WOMEN COULD NOT GO TO THE RANGER SCHOOLS.

AND NOW LOOK WHAT WE HAVE.

WE HAVE WOMEN COMPLETING RANGER SCHOOL.

ONE OF THE TOUGHEST COURSES THERE IS IN THE ARMY.

SO THIS IS JUST OLD STUFF TO ME.

AND IT'S HUMMING LIKE THAT IN DISGUST IT'S OLD STUFF AND WHAT IS STARTLING TO ME IT'S YOUNGER WHITE MALES SAYING THIS.

AND I'M LIKE WHAT HAS BEEN RAISING THE BOYS?

>> WELL, BUT ALSO WHAT IT TAKES TO GET -- A LOT OF PEOPLE -- I KNOW IN THE ARMY THIS IS TRUE 10 YEARS AGO 70% OF MEN PASSED THE PHYSICAL TEST TO GET INTO THE ARMY.

IMAGINE WHAT PERCENTAGE DON'T MAKE IT INTO NAVY SEALS OR THE MARINES OR THE ELITE UNITS.

ARE YOU SURPRISED BY THE REACTION?

>> I SUPPOSE I AM BY THE PROFANITY AND THE STRENGTH OF THE REACTION.

IF IT MAKES THEM FEEL BETTER I COULD NOT MAKE IT.

EVEN WHEN I WAS YOUNGER I COULD NOT MAKE IT AND GUESS WHAT?

MOST WOMEN CAN'T.

>> I'M NOT SURE THAT 50% OF MEN WHO APPLY TO GET INTO THE UNITS MAKE IT.

I BET IT'S LESS.

>> WHEN YOU SAID ELITE UNITS THOSE ARE THE WORDS FOR IT.

THAT IS WHY I THOUGHT THEY WERE ABOVE THIS AND I WILL SAY ONE OF THE REASONS I AM DISAPPOINTED IS THAT MEN WHEN GAYS WERE WELCOMED INTO THE ARMED SERVICES THEY TENDED TO BE MORE AND MORE MEN SAYING THAT IS THE WAY IT SHOULD BE.

I FOOLED MYSELF INTO THINKING THIS GENERATION IS HIP AND THEY ARE UNDERSTANDING THAT EVERYBODY IS EQUAL BUT THE VENOM THESE ARE EDUCATED MEN ELITE MEN.

DOES THAT INDICATE THAT MEN -- AND I HOPE THAT IS NOT THE CASE.

>> AND IT COMES A WEEK AFTER CARTER SAID WE ARE OPENING ALL FRONTLINE JOBS TO WOMEN.

THE VERY TOP OF THE PENTAGON GETS IT.

BUT THESE GUYS WHO ARE ONLY SLIGHTLY LOWER DON'T.

>> I CANNOT THINK OF ANY PROFESSION THAT DID NOT FACE THIS AT ONE TIME.

THE FIRST PEOPLE TO GO TO LAW SCHOOL OR MEDICAL SCHOOL AND I'VE HEARD THE HORROR STORIES.

THIS IS A SIGN IN THIS AREA WE HAVE GONE BACKWARD.

I HOPE LEARNING FROM THE OTHER EXPERIENCES OF WOMEN THAT THERE IS A LOT OF SUPPORT FROM ORGANIZATIONS AND COMMUNITIES FOR THOSE FIRST WOMEN WHO ATTEMPT TO GO IN.

THINKING OF THE SUPPORT IS IMPORTANT.

>> AND QUICK TO YOUR POINT.

THE VISITRY OBVIOUSLY I WAS SHOCKED WE ARE NOT MENTALLY STRONG ENOUGH AND WHAT ARE OUR WIVES GOING TO THINK THEY MIGHT GET JEALOUS.

THIS REMINDS ME OF WE CANNOT LET WOMEN GO TO COLLEGE.

>> EXACTLY.

>> WE ARE FIGHTING THAT AGAINST THE BIGGEST BOYS CLUB IN THE WORLD HUNDREDS OF YEARS OF CULTURE ENGRAINED IN THE MILITARY AND I AGREE WITH ELEANOR IN TERMS OF HOW THE MILITARY IS RESPONDING WHETHER THAT BE WITH THE CHANGES TO THE REQUIREMENTS TO MAKE PARITIES BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN AND SEEING THE CHANGES.

WE ARE RESPONDING TO AN ENVIRONMENT WITH THE ARMY RANGERS WOMEN JOINING THE PROGRAM.

I THINK TALKING TO PEOPLE IN THE MILITARY, I THINK THIS IS VERY MUCH NOT INDICATIVE OF THE ENTIRE MILITARY BUT IT'S UNFORTUNATE TO HEAR THE COMMENTS AND WE ARE A LONG WAY AWAY FROM BEING IN A PLACE THAT I WOULD FEEL SAFE KNOWING MY DAUGHTER WAS BECOMING A NAVY SEAL.

>> IN THE TRAINING FOR THE RANGERS THERE WAS ONE CORPORAL OR SOMETHING WHO PART OF THE TRAINING IS THEY HAVE TO CARRY 216 POUNDS ON THEIR BACKPACK FOR SO MANY MILES AND HE GOT TIRED AND A WOMAN WHO WAS IN THE TRAINING, PICKED IT UP AND TOOK IT FOR HIM.

SO DO YOU THINK AS THESE GUYS SEE THOSE KINDS OF THINGS HAPPENING, WITH THE FEW LET'S REMEMBER, THE FEW THE PROUD, THE VERY FEW NUMBER OF WOMEN WHO WILL BE ABLE TO PASS THE PHYSICAL TESTS DO YOU THINK THAT THEY WILL CHANGE?

>> I HOPE SO.

AND I THINK THE INTERESTING PART IS YOU HAVE CONGRESSMAN THE FIRST FEMALE FIGHTER PILOT BUT IT'S NOT THE SAME AS SEEING WOMEN ON THE FRONTLINESES AND THAT CAN BE HARD FOR OUR CULTURE TO STOMACH SEEING WOMEN ON THE FRONTLINES.

>> TOP DOWN IN THE MILITARY PEOPLE IN SHORT ORDER DO COMPLY.

>> ALL RIGHT.

THAT IS IT FOR THIS EDITION.

FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER AND VISIT OUR WEBSITE, PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.

AND WHETHER YOU AGREE OR THINK TO THE CONTRARY SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

[♪♪♪] FOUNDATION.

FOR A TRANSCRIPT OR TO SEE 'ON-LINE VERSION OF THIS EPISODE OF TO THE CONTRARY VISIT OUR WEBSITE AT PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.

[♪♪♪]