THIS WEEK ON TO THE CONTRARY: FIRST, WOMEN TAKE CHARGE AT THE WORLD'S LARGEST INTERFAITH GATHERING.

THEN, JENNIFER LAWRENCE ON EQUAL PAY IN HOLLYWOOD.

BEHIND THE HEADLINES: HOW OVER-PARENTING CAN SHORTCHANGE YOUR CHILD.

HELLO, I'M BONNIE ERBE.

WELCOME TO TO THE CONTRARY, A DISCUSSION OF NEWS AND SOCIAL TRENDS FROM DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES.

UP FIRST, WOMEN AND RELIGION.

RELIGIOUS WOMEN ARE TAKING CHARGE TO ACHIEVE GENDER EQUALITY AT THE FIRST WOMEN'S ASSEMBLY AT THE PARLIAMENT OF THE WORLD'S RELIGIONS IN SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH.

FAITH LEADERS FROM 50 RELIGIONS ACROSS 80 COUNTRIES ARE ATTENDING, AND LEADERS FROM ATHEIST ORGANIZATIONS ARE PRESENT AS WELL.

WOMEN FROM 19 OF THOSE FAITHS ARE SPEAKING AT THE EVENT, ADDRESSING ISSUES SUCH AS SEXUAL VIOLENCE, EQUAL RIGHTS, AND DISCRIMINATION.

IT IS A TRAGEDY OF HUMAN CIVILIZATION AND RELIGIONS HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO IT.

IT'S TIME FOR US TO BE TREATED WITH THE DIGNITY THAT IS AT THE HEART OF ALL RELIGIONS.

>> AND CALLING UPON THEIR OWN RELIGIOUS LEADERS TO ESPECIALLY SURE THEY TREAT WOMEN AS EQUALS.

THE MEETING IS THE LARGEST INTERFAITH EVENT IN THE WORLD.

THE SIXTH OF ITS KIND SINCE BEING REVIVED IN 1993, 100 YEARS AFTER THE FIRST PARLIAMENT CONVENED.

BUT IT IS THE FIRST TO GIVE WOMEN A CENTRAL ROLE.

>> IT IS NOT A QUESTION OF BEING AT THE TOP IT IS A QUESTION OF BEING AT THE TABLE.

WHERE WE HAVE NOT BEEN ALLOWED.

THEY CLOSE THE DOORS NOT ONLY IN LEADERSHIP BUT IN DECISION MAKING.

>> CONGRESSWOMAN NORTON WHAT WILL THIS EVENT MEAN FOR RELIGIOUS WOMEN?

>> I CAN HOPE THAT THE WOMEN WHO REPRESENT MOST RELIGIONS ASK THE QUESTION: WHY WOMEN ARE ALMOST ALWAYS BARRED FROM LEADERSHIP OF THOSE SAME RELIGIONS?

>> LONG OVERDUE.

WE HAVE PAID A HEAVY PRICE.

I'M GLAD TO SEE RELIGIOUS WOMEN STEPPING FORWARD IN A RELIGIOUS FRAMEWORK.

>> AND WE KNOW THAT WHEN WOMEN BAND TOGETHER ACROSS DIFFERENCES EXTRAORDINARY THINGS CAN HAPPEN.

BUT THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH MEN THERE.

>> INTERESTING.

I THINK IT'S GOOD TO HAVE A STEP BACK AND CHECK WHERE YOU ARE ON ISSUES LIKE EQUAL RIGHTS AND FEMINISM.

I THINK WE WANT TO BE CAREFUL NOT TO CONFUSE GENDER TRADITIONS OR DIFFERENCES WITH REAL ABUSES AND ATROCITIES AGAINST WOMEN.

>> SUCH AS?

>> I THINK ABOUT MY OWN FAITH I'M JEWISH AND LOTS OF THINGS I DO WITH MY DAUGHTERS VERSUS WHAT YOU DO WITH YOUR SONS.

SOME ARE WONDERFUL TRADITIONS I THINK WE HAVE TO ACCEPT WHAT A REASONABLE GENDER DIFFERENTS IN RELIGION AND WHILE THERE ARE HORRIBLE THINGS HAPPENING TO WOMEN AROUND THE GLOBE IN THE NAME OF FAITH AND WE WANT TO RECOGNIZE THOSE FOR AS SERIOUS AS THEY ARE.

>> BUT WE KNOW THAT THERE ARE TERRIBLE THINGS GOING ON AROUND THE WORLD.

LET'S FOCUS ON WOMEN IN CHURCHES.

IT'S BEEN AMAZING WOMEN ARE THE BACKBONE OF ANY CHURCH, SYNAGOGUE, TEMPLE, WHATEVER.

IN THE WORLD.

AND VERY FEW FAITHS AND I THINK CONSERVATIVE FAITHS LIKE SOUTHERN BAPTIST HAVE FEMALE PREACHERS BUT CATHOLICISM AND REFORMED JUDAISM NOT IN ISLAM CAN WOMEN BE CHURCH LEADERS.

HAVE HAVE WOMEN ALWAYS PUT UP WITH THIS?

>> I THINK IT'S THE CHALLENGES THAT WE HAVE NOT HAD OUR VOICES HEARD AND WE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO COME TOGETHER AND PART IS BECAUSE THEY ARE RELIGION OF FAITHS AND PEOPLE FIND IT CHALLENGING TO CHALLENGE FAITH.

BUT YOU ARE SEEING A MORE AND MORE STRONG MOVEMENT IN THE CONTEXT OF ISLAM THE HISTORY STARTED OFF STRONG ON WOMEN AND WE LOST IT.

NOW THERE IS A MOVEMENT TO GO BACK TO THE STRONG POINT THAT WE STARTED OFF WITH WHICH WAS WOMEN IN LEADERSHIP.

>> THAT IS FASCINATING.

>> YOU ARE SEEING IT FROM MALAISA TO EGYPT AND HERE IN THE U.S. WITH THE FIRST WOMEN'S MOSQUE IN CALIFORNIA BUT IT IS NOT THE TIPPING POINT WHERE IT WILL LEAD TO CHANGE.

>> WHAT BOTHERS ME IS THAT SEXISM IN RELIGIONS IS MORE DEEPLY EMBEDDED THAN OTHER INSTITUTIONS.

YOU CAN FINALLY GET TO BE A CORPORATE EXECUTIVE YOU CAN GET TO BE A MEMBER OF CONGRESS.

WOMEN ARE BARRED FROM LEADERSHIP.

WOMEN ARE NOT RECOGNIZED AS PEOPLE WHO CAN LEAD AND IT HAS TO BE SAID -- >> BUT YOU STILL GO TO CHURCH.

>> I CANNOT SAY I GO TO CHURCH VERY OFTEN BUT WHAT MUST BE SAID IS THAT MUCH OF THE SEXISM IN SOCIETY BEGINS WITH RELIGION.

PEOPLE LEARN FIRST WHAT FAITH THEY ARE AND THEY CARRY THOSE TRADITIONS INTO THE REST OF SOCIETY.

SO THE CHURCH OR THE SYNAGOGUE OR WHATEVER INSTITUTION HAS TO BEGIN TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY.

>> GO AHEAD.

>> I WOULD SAY I WOULD ADD BECAUSE I AGREE WITH WHAT YOU SAID IS RELIGIOUS ILLITERACY.

BECAUSE WE ARE NOT UNDERSTANDING THE DEPTHS OF RELIGION IT'S BEEN MANIPULATED AGAINST OUR GENDER.

>> IS THAT TRUE?

YOU ARE FROM LOUISIANA BUT YOU ARE NOT CATHOLIC?

>> NO, I'M PRESBYTERIAN BUT I WAS VERY ACTIVE IN THE CHURCH GROWING UP.

BUT MY GRANDMOTHER AND HER FRIENDS WHO RAN THE CHURCH WHO DID EVERYTHING.

>> RAN THE BAKE SALES.

>> MY DAD AND GRAND DAD WERE ELDERS BUT MY GRANDMOTHER WAS NOT ELIGIBLE TO BE AN ELDER.

AND THAT CHANGED.

SOME RELIGIONS ARE MOVING.

AND OTHERS SEEM REALLY STUCK.

>> I WONDER IF IT WILL FALL BY THE WAYSIDE.

I THINK ABOUT INTERFAITH COUPLES ARE BEING MORE WELCOMED IN CERTAIN RELIGIONS NOW.

THERE IS A SENSE THINGS ARE CHANGING AND IS IT JUST WE HAVE TO BE A LITTLE BIT PATIENT THAT REFORMED SYNAGOGUES ARE ALLOWING WOMEN.

AND I AM BEGINNING TO THINK SOME WILL HAPPEN AND THAT THE CONVERSATIONS ARE VERY IMPORTANT.

>> I DO NOT THINK IT WILL HAPPEN NATURALLY.

PEOPLE WHO ARE DENIED THEIR RIGHTS DO NOT GET THEM UNLESS THEY SPEAK UP.

THE ONE THING IS WOMEN ARE SPEAKING FOR THEMSELVES.

NOBODY GIVES YOU ANYTHING.

IF THERE'S SOMETHING IN YOUR RELIGION AND YOU DON'T SPEAK UP IT'S GOING TO CONTINUE TO BE WRONG.

>> WOMEN ARE THE BACKBONE OF THE CHURCH THEY MAKE SURE THE FAMILY TITHES AND THEY TAKE THE KIDS TO CHURCH.

AND THEY GET THEIR HUSBANDS TO GO WITH THEM WHEN THEIR HUSBANDS MIGHT NOT OTHERWISE DO THAT.

BUT THE FACT IS AT LEAST IN THE UNITED STATES AND IN EUROPE, EDUCATED WOMEN ARE NOT GOING TO CHURCH ANYMORE.

AND THAT IS ACTUALLY WHAT IS CAUSING ALL THE EMPTY CHURCHES AND ALL THE EMPTY CATHOLIC CHURCHES IN THE UNITED STATES IN EUROPE.

SO PEOPLE WHO ARE LESS EDUCATED WHO ARE THE MOST FIERCELY RELIGIOUS RIGHT NOW.

IS IT NOT UP TO WOMEN TO EDUCATE ALL WOMEN NOT JUST HOW TO BECOME A DOCTOR OR A LAWYER BUT WHAT THE TEXT IN THE RELIGION ACTUALLY SAYS?

BECAUSE YOU AND I WERE AT AN EVENT AT YOUR PLACE OF WORK WHERE WE TALKED ABOUT THE QURAN IS OFTEN MISINTERPRETED BECAUSE OF CULTURAL INFLUENCES WHERE MEN TAKE CHARGE AS OPPOSED TO WOMEN REALLY UNDERSTANDING THEIR RIGHTS.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK RELIGIOUS KNOWLEDGE IS THE KEY.

YOU HAVE TO ARGUE FROM WITHIN THE RELIGIOUS FRAMEWORK.

MEN ARE NOT GOING TO GIVE US POWER AND THEY ARE USING IT.

IF YOU ARE NOT OBJECTING TO ME BUT YOU ARE OBJECTING TO GOD.

AND WOMEN ARE COMING OUT AND SAYING THAT IS YOU, NOT GOD, AND NOT RELIGION AND HERE IS HOW WE CAN EMPOWER OURSELVES.

>> AND CERTAIN RELIGIONS WHERE THERE'S DEBATE IS CONSTANT SO THE CONVERSATIONS HAPPEN ALL THE TIME.

AND IT'S FUNNY YOU CAN BE WITHIN THE SAME FAITH AND THINGS ARE FOREIGN AND I HAVE BEEN WITH ORTHODOX JEWS AND MUCH MORE GENDER SEPARATED THAN I WAS RAISED BY -- SO THERE IS A CONVERSATION TO BE HAD AND IT WILL BE INTERESTING.

>> YOUR THOUGHTS ON MOVING FORWARD AND ON YOUR TOPIC WHICH IS DOMESTIC VIOLENCE HOW COULD THE CHURCH HELP END THAT?

>> YES, YOU KNOW THE CHURCH COULD MAKE ALL OF THE RELIGIONS EVERYWHERE COULD MAKE AN ORDINARY AMOUNT OF DIFFERENCE ON SOCIAL ILLS THAT PRAGUE NOT ONLY OUR OWN COUNTRY BUT AROUND THE WORLD IF THEY WOULD SPEAK OUT.

AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE ARE SEEING WITH POPE FRANCIS WHO IS SPEAKING OUT ABOUT MISTREATMENT OF PEOPLE AND INEQUALITY.

>> BUT IS HE SPEAKING OUT... >> HE IS TALKING ABOUT THINGS THAT ARE IMPORTANT.

>> WHAT ABOUT DOMESTIC VIOLENCE NL AND HE ALREADY HAS THE ONE AREA OF PROGRESSION IN THE CHURCH THAT HE SLAMMED THE DOOR ON EARLY IN HIS PAPACY WAS WOMEN AS PRIESTS.

SO -- >> AND MORE REPRODUCTIVE FREEDOM FOR WOMEN HAS BEEN FORECLOSED.

BUT THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE WHO WOULD TALK ABOUT THAT.

IF RELIGIOUS LEADERS AROUND THE WORLD WOULD EACH TALK ABOUT THE AREAS THAT WOULD IMPACT PEOPLE'S LIVES AND WOMEN'S LIVES IT WOULD MAKE AN EXTRAORDINARY DIFFERENCE.

IT DOESN'T ALL HAVE TO BE ON POPE FRANCIS.

>> THE POPE'S PROGRESSIVE NOTIONS OF TRYING TO MOVE THE CHURCH STOPPED COLD WHEN THE NOTION OF LEADERSHIP WAS RAISED.

AND LOOK AT WHAT REASON HE GIVES.

BECAUSE JESUS HAD 12 MALE DISCIPLES.

WHY DOESN'T HE TALK ABOUT THE WOMEN WHO WERE AROUND JESUS?

THERE WERE RAY PLETHORA OF WOMEN AROUND JESUS.

CATHOLICS WORSHIP THE VIRGIN MARY.

THERE ARE MANY WOMEN WHO COULD MAKE MANY WOMEN IN THE BACKGROUND OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH THAT COULD MAKE THE CASE FOR EQUALITY OF WOMEN AND ALL CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS.

LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK.

PLEASE FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER @BONNIEERBE.

FROM RELIGION TO THE PAY GAP.

ACADEMY AWARD WINNER JENNIFER LAWRENCE IS THE LATEST ACTRESS CALLING OUT HOLLYWOOD FOR PAY INEQUITY.

LAWRENCE WENT PUBLIC THIS WEEK ABOUT BEING PAID LESS THAN HER MALE CO-STARS IN AMERICAN HUSTLE.

IN AN ONLINE ESSAY SHE WRITES, "I AM OVER TRYING TO FIND THE ADORABLE WAY TO STATE MY OPINION AND STILL BE LIKABLE."

THE INFAMOUS HACK OF SONY COMPUTERS, REVEALED TO LAWRENCE THAT BRADLEY COOPER, JEREMY RENNER AND CHRISTIAN BALE ALL NEGOTIATED SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER DEALS FOR THEIR ROLES.

LAWRENCE DOESN'T BLAME THE MEN OR EVEN SONY.

SHE BLAMES HERSELF FOR GIVING UP EARLY BECAUSE SHE DIDN'T WANT TO KEEP FIGHTING OVER MILLIONS OF DOLLARS SHE DIDN'T NEED.

AND SHE DIDN'T WANT TO APPEAR DIFFICULT.

BUT SHE SAYS THOSE DAYS ARE OVER.

MERYL STREEP ALSO TALKED ABOUT THE ISSUE, AS SHE HAS MANY TIMES, IN A BBC INTERVIEW DURING HER ROLL OUT OF HER LATEST MOVIE, THE SUFFRAGETTE.

SO, FOR MYSELF ON SOME LEVEL, A WOMAN WHO MADE $52 MILLION LAST YEAR, IT'S EASY TO DISMISS IT AND SAY IT DOESN'T AFFECT ME.

BUT I THINK IT DOES AFFECT ME.

THERE IS A TRICKLE DOWN.

>> YOU ARE RIGHT.

I THINK THIS IS INTERESTING BECAUSE IT SHOWS HOW THE CONVERSATION OVER PAY EQUITY IS EVOLVING.

LAST NIGHT AT AN EVENT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT CHANGING AND THIS CONVERSATION EEVOLVED A LOT.

AND THE PAY GAP MIGHT NOT BE AS BAD BUT WOMEN NEED TO DO MORE AND THERE ARE PROBLEMS THERE.

AND THIS IS SORT OF A GOOD OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO SAY SOMETIMES YOU CAN DO MOREMENT AND SOMETIMES YOU WILL ASK AND YOU WILL NOT GET IT.

AND SOMETIMES THERE'S DISCRIMINATION.

HAVING A MORE HONEST CONVERSATION WHICH SHE ALLOWS US TO HAVE IS IMPORTANT.

>> DOES ANYBODY THINK SHE WAS IN ON THE NEGOTIATIONS?

THIS WAS HER AGENT?

>> THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

>> THE AGENT MAY HAVE SAID LOOK I HAVE GOTTEN ALL I CAN GET AND BRAD COOPER SAID GET MORE AND SHE SAID OK ENOUGH ALREADY.

I CAN CERTAINLY HAVE A ROOF OVER MY HEAD FOR THAT AMOUNT OF MONEY.

>> AND I THINK THE AGENT'S JOB IS TO ADVICE HER.

I LOVED IT UNTIL SHE SAID IT WAS PARTIALLY HER FAULT AND THERE ARE PEOPLE IN POWER WHERE YOU NEGOTIATE AND YOU SEE THAT EVERYONE AROUND THE TABLE IS GIVING YOU THE SAME MESSAGE.

THIS IS AS GOOD AS IT GETS.

YOU ARE BREAKING THE CEILING AND COMPARE YOU TO OTHER WOMEN VERSUS LOOKING AT IT WITHOUT A GENDER LENS.

SO I THINK THAT THAT IS A CHALLENGE.

I HAVE SO MUCH LOVE FOR PEOPLE IN MEDIA WHO TAKE UP IMPORTANT ISSUES AND I'M GLAD TO SEE HER DO IT.

>> I AM GLAD PRECISELY BECAUSE SHE EARNS $52 MILLION.

WHEN THE AVERAGE WOMAN SEES EVEN AT THAT LEVEL THE WOMEN ARE GETTING SCREWED THEY WILL WAKE UP AND GOODNESS WHAT MUST BE HAPPENING TO ME.

AND IT SHOWS NO MATTER HOW HIGH YOU GET YOU ARE GIVING THE SAME REASONS FOR NOT SPEAKING UP.

>> EXACTLY.

YOU HAVE TO BE WILLING TO WALK AWAY FROM DEALS THAT ARE NOT EQUAL.

AND WHEN YOU ARE JANITOR FOR A LIVING YOU CANNOT DO YOU HAVE TO TAKE WHATEVER EMPLOYMENT YOU CAN FIND WHEN YOU ARE A SECRETARY, A RETAIL CLERK.

YOU HAVE TO TAKE WHAT YOU CAN FIND.

BUT WHY CAN'T WOMEN IN POWER, AGENTS SAY SHE WANTS EVERY BIT AS MUCH AS BRADLEY COOPER IS MAKING PLUS $1 MILLION OR SHE IS WALKING AWAY?

>> THE FIRST THING SHE SHOULD DO IS GET A FEMALE AGENT BECAUSE THE RESEARCH -- >> DO WE KNOW SHE HAS A MALE AGENT?

>> WE KNOW THE RESEARCH ON NEGOTIATION AND WOMEN IS THAT WOMEN ARE BETTER NEGOTIATORS THAN MEN WHEN THEY ARE NEGOTIATING FOR SOMEONE ELSE.

WHEN THEY ARE NEGOTIATING ON BEHALF OF A COLLEAGUE OR SUBORDINATE, WOMEN DO BETTER THAN MEN DO.

THEY DO NOT DO AS WELL AS MEN WHEN THEY ARE NEGOTIATING FOR THEMSELVES.

NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT ASKING FOR ENOUGH, BUT BECAUSE THEY ARE PUNISHED FOR NEGOTIATING.

PROFESSOR AT HARVARD FOUND THAT WOMEN WHO PUSH ARE SEEN NEGATIVELY BY THEIR COLLEAGUES AND THAT THEIR COWORKERS SAY THEY DO NOT WANT TO WORK WITH THOSE WOMEN.

>> BUT SHOULD WOMEN JUST SAY LOOK WHATEVER I DO YOU WILL SEE ME AS PUSHY AND I DON'T CARE.

BECAUSE I'M PUSHING JUST AS HARD AS THE MEN?

>> I'M CURIOUS WHAT IS GOING ON ON THE OTHER SIDE.

WE DON'T KNOW WHO WAS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE NEGOTIATING TABLE.

WE ASSUME THE MEN ARE SAYING NO.

WE DON'T KNOW THERE WAS NOT A WOMAN AT THE TABLE.

>> I KNOW.

>> AND BRADLEY COOPER IS MORE APPEALING TO WOMEN.

AND WOMEN BUY MORE TICKETS THAN MEN DO THEREFORE WE WILL PAY HIM MORE.

THERE'S INTERESTING NUANCES HERE AND THAT IS NOT TO DEFEND WHAT HAPPENED I'M THINKING ABOUT IT.

THE PERCEPTION IS THE MEN ARE THE BAD BOSSES AND A LOT OF WOMEN ARE MAKING THE DECISIONS.

>> THAT IS WHY IT'S IRRELEVANT.

THE IDEA IS SHE DID NOT GET A FAIR DEAL A LOT OF TIMES I SEE MANAGEMENT WHERE THERE IS A WOMAN PRESIDENT AND THE EXPECTATION IS THAT IS ENOUGH.

WHY ARE YOU COMPLAINING AND AGAIN IT IS IRRELEVANT WHO IS DOING THE DISCRIMINATION A WOMAN OR A MAN.

>> ONE THING THAT MERYL STREEP SAID IN THE INTERVIEW WAS THAT THE TOP 10 -- THE COUNTRY IS DIVIDED INTO 10 TERRITORIES, THEY ARE ALL MEN.

THEY ARE ALL SELLING -- TELLING WHAT EACH CINEMA IN YOUR LOCAL AREA HAS TO CARRY WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO SELL YOU.

SO DOESN'T THAT HAVE AN INFLUENCE TOO?

>> I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT SO SO I TAKE BACK MY PREVIOUS STATEMENT.

THERE'S DISCRIMINATION EXISTS IT'S IMPORTANT TO SEE AND THE VALUE SHE BRINGS.

THERE'S TWO SIDES; ONE THERE ARE INSTANCES WHERE WOMEN CAN DO MORE FOR THEMSELVES.

AND AT THE SAME TIME WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE WHEN THERE IS TRUE DISCRIMINATION.

I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED HERE BUT I THINK SHE ELEVATES THE CONVERSATION.

>> AS RELIGIONS WE FINISHED DISCUSSING, WHO DO YOU THINK GOES TO THE MOVIES?

THEY ARE WOMEN, OF COURSE.

>> WE CANNOT HAVE AN IMPACT.

>> WE USE THE INTERNET MORE AND BUY MORE THEATER TICKETINGS.

I'M NOT A THEATER FAN BUT THERE WAS AND STILL IS A BIG THEATER WOMEN'S THEATER FESTIVAL IN DC AND I KEPT SAYING TO MYSELF I GOT TO GO BUY A TICKET EVEN IF I DON'T GO TO THE PLAY I HAVE TO SUPPORT THIS.

AND I DIDN'T -- BE HONEST AND SAY I'M LEAVING FOR A LONG TRIP AND I DID NOT DO IT AND I FEEL GUILTY ABOUT IT.

BEHIND THE HEADLINES OVERPARENTING WHEN IT IS IN K-12 THROUGH COLLEGE SOME PARENTS ARE DOING TOON FOR THEIR KIDS.

ONE TEACHER HAS WRITTEN A BOOK WHY KIDS NEED TO LEARN HOW TO TRY, SUCCEED AND EVEN FAIL ON THEIR OWN.

>> JESSICA LAHEY IS A TEACHER AN AUTHOR AND A MOTHER.

SINCE SHE STARTED TEACHING ALMOST 17 YEARS AGO SHE BEGAN NOTICING A TREND AMONG HER STUDENTS.

>> THEY WERE BECOMING MORE FEARFUL.

THEY WERE BECOMING MORE SCARED OF MAKINGS MISTAKES AND SCARED OF LOOKING SILLY.

>> THE FEAR OF FAILURE WAS PROPELLED BY PARENTS AND IT MADE HER REEXAMINE HER OWN PARENTS.

>> I HAD A CHILD JUST GOING INTO MIDDLE SCHOOL AND I WAS COMPLICIT MYSELF.

SO I DOVE INTO THE RESEARCH TO FIGURE OUT WHAT I WAS DOING WRONG SO I COULD HELP MY STUDENTS' PARENTS GET OUT A BETTER WAY TO BE AND FOCUS ON THE PROCESS OF LEARNING RATHER THAN THE END PRODUCT OF GRADES OR HONORS.

>> THE PROBLEM: LAHEY SAYS IT'S OVERPARENTING.

>> WHEN YOU DO NOT ALLOW YOUR CHILD TO TAKE THEIR FIRST WHACK AT A PROBLEM WHEN YOU JUMP IN AND RESCUE THEM IMMEDIATELY BEFORE ALLOWING THEM TO SEE IF THEY CAN DO IT THEMSELVES.

AND TO HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY TO SCREW UP AND PICK THEMSELVES UP AND DO IT AGAIN.

AND WHAT THAT LEADS TO ARE KIDS LESS LIKELY TO BE ABLE TO DO THEIR OWN TASKS IN YOUR ABSENCE.

WHEN PARENTS AREN'T THERE, SUDDENLY THE KIDS JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO.

>> A RECENT BRIGHAM YOUNG UNIVERSITY STUDY FOUND THAT HELICOPTER PARENTING LED TO KIDS WITH LOWER SELF-WORTH.

>> WE HAVE TAUGHT KIDS TO WORSHIP THESE FALSE IDOLS OF GRADES, TEST SCORES, ADMISSIONS TO HIGH OCTANE UNIVERSITIES.

AND THOSE THINGS ARE NOT GREAT.

I'M NOT SAYING WE SHOULD NOT BE ENCOURAGING KIDS TO DO WELL IN SCHOOL.

MY MESSAGE IS THOSE MOTIVATORS, MOTIVATORS THAT COME FROM OUTSIDE ARE REALLY SCREWING UP KIDS' MOTIVATION TO LEARN.

ONE THING WE KNOW FROM THE RESEARCH ON HUMAN MOTIVATION IS THAT WHEN IMPOSE EXTRENSIC MOTIVATORS TO KIDS' LEARNING THEY ARE LESS LIKELY TO BE INVESTED IN THE LEARNING ITSELF.

WE ARE A COUNTRY THAT VALUES THE PRODUCT OF KIDS' LEARNING, THE TEST SCORE, THE GRADES, THE HONORS AS OPPOSED TO THE PROCESS OF THE LEARNING.

>> WHAT CAN PARENTS DO?

>> WHEN YOUR KID COMES HOME ON THE DAY THEY HAD A BIG TEST.

SAY HOW DID IT GO?

WHAT DID YOU DO THAT WENT WELL AND WHAT MIGHT YOU REPEAT?

OR WHY DIDN'T IT GO WELL?

WHAT DID YOU TRY TO DO TO STUDY THIS TIME AND WHAT MIGHT YOU NOT DO NEXT TIME TO AVOID THIS PROBLEM AGAIN?

>> ACCORDING TO LAHEY PARENTS NEED TO FEAR FAILURE LESS IF THEY WANT THEIR KIDS TO BECOME MORE SELF CONFIDENT.

>> WE HAVE BEEN CRITICIZED AS CREATING A GENERATION OF GOOD TEST TAKERS AND KIDS THAT CANNOT BE INNOVATORS AND THE GIFT OF FAILURE IS WHEN YOU DO FAIL YOU HAVE TO REACT POSITIVE WAY TO THE FAILURE AND YOU LEARN HOW TO BE MORE CREATIVE AND YOU LEARN HOW TO INNOVATE AND BE RESOURCEFUL AND PICK UP THE RIGHT PIECES AND LEAVE THE PIECES THAT DID NOT WORK BEHIND.

>> SO ARE TOO MANY PARENTS OVERPARENTING TODAY?

>> WELL, IT SOUNDS LIKE THAT.

BUT LET ME TELL YOU WHAT A RELIEF IT IS TO HEAR THIS.

THERE WERE TIMES I WORRIED I WAS NOT PUSHING MY KIDS HARD ENOUGH AND NOW THEY ARE SUPER INDEPENDENT.

>> WONDERFUL.

HOW DID YOU DO THAT?

>> HANDS OFF.

[LAUGHTER] >> I DON'T GET IT.

IF MORE PEOPLE ARE OVERPARENTING WHY IS THIS THEIR CONSTANT CRY FROM WORKING MOTHERS AND WORKING FATHERS ABOUT NOT HAVING ENOUGH TIME?

HOW CAN YOU HAVE A JOB AND OVERPARENT AT THE SAME TIME?

>> I'VE OFTEN WONDERED IF THIS IS A BIT DIFFERENTIATED ON A SOCIOECONOMIC SCALE.

I FIND IN A CITY LIKE WASHINGTON YOU HAVE A LOT OF MOMS SEGMENTS WHO DO NOT HAVE TO WORK SO THEY ARE ABLE TO THROW THEMSELVES IN TO PER-SHARE BASISSING THAT IS WONDERFUL AND PERHAPS SMOTHERING AND ALL OF US HAVE TO STEP BACK DOES MY KID NEED ME TO STAND UNDER THE TREE.

IT'S AN IMPORTANT DECISION TO MAKE.

>> AND UNFOR THE NATURALLY IT LOOKS LIKE THE PARENTS ARE ACTING OUT THEIR OWN AMBITIONS ON THEIR CHILDREN AND CREATING SUFFERING AND DEPRESSION.

AS A RESULT THINK ABOUT A CHILD WHO LEARNED TO DO SOMETHING THE MOMENT A PARENT TRIES TO HELP, LET ME DO IT MOMMY.

WHAT IS THAT?

A CHILD LEARNS TO BE CREATIVE.

I DON'T KNOW WHETHER IT'S THE VIOLENCE IN THE SOCIETY THEY ARE AFRAID IF A CHILD IS AALONE SOMETHING WILL HAPPEN.

IS IT THE COMPETITIVENESS?

>> TECHNOLOGY?

I'M THINKING YOU ARE IN CONGRESS AND YOU HAVE TWO CHILDREN.

THERE ARE PLENTY OF OTHER WOMEN IN CONGRESS WHO HAVE CHILDREN.

CAN YOU USE TEXTING AS A WAY TO DO TOO MUCH FOR YOUR CHILD?

>> SO CAN SOME MOLESTER.

THAT MAYBE WHAT THEY ARE AFRAID OF.

AND WE CLOSET OUR CHILDREN AND THEREFORE WE WILL HAVE A LESS CREATIVE GENERATION FOR THE FIRST TIME IF WE DON'T BACK OFF.

>> IT'S INTERESTING I AM THE ONLY PERSON THAT IS NOT A PARENTMENT AND I'M COMING OUT IN THE DEFENSE OF THE PARENTS BECAUSE THE TITLE BOTHERS ME.

I DO THINK THAT YOU CAN DO ENOUGH FOR YOUR CHILD.

IT'S THE TOOLS AND TECHNIQUES.

AND I ALSO THINK THAT A LOT OF WHAT SHE IS CRITICIZING IS THE EDUCATION SYSTEM IT'S NOT IN PARENTS' HANDS IF WE CAN SWITCH MORE TO THE MONT SORRY STYLE BUT IT HAS TO HAPPEN IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND THE PRIVATE BECAUSE IT'S NOT ACCESSIBLE.

>> YOU HAVE THREE KIDS AND A DEMANDING JOB DO YOU FEEL LIKE YOU OVERPARENT?

>> YES, I DO AND I WONDER IF IT HAS TO DO WITH THE CHANGING GENDER ROLES.

THERE WERE TIMES THAT YOU DID NOT HAVE TO BALANCE THAT WORK PART OF IT.

AND MY KIDS HAVE PLACES TO BE AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE DOING THEIR HOMEWORK AND SOME IS IMPOSED AND SOME IS SORTING OUT THE DETAILS OF TWO PARENTS WORKING OUT OF NECESSITY OR CHOICE AND IT WILL BE PERHAPS TAKE A GENERATION TO LOOK BACK AND SAY, HEY WHERE COULD WE HAVE BEEN BETTER AND IMPROVE ON THIS.

>> ALL RIGHT.

THAT IS IT FOR THIS EDITION.

FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER AND VISIT OUR WEBSITE PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY AND WHETHER YOU AGREE OR THINK TO THE CONTRARY, SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

[♪♪♪] [♪♪♪] FOUNDATION.

FOR A TRANSCRIPT OR TO SEE AN ON-LINE VERSION OF THIS EPISODE OF TO THE CONTRARY VISIT PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.

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