>> THIS WEEK ON TO THE CONTRARY... FIRST, THE POPE SOFTENS RHETORIC ON ABORTION.

NEXT, THE ACCURACY OF THE DATA POINT THAT ONE IN FIVE STUDENTS IS SEXUALLY ASSAULTED.

BEHIND THE HEADLINES THIS LABOR DAY THE CHALLENGES AND TRIUMPHS OF BLACK WOMEN IN LABOR LEADERSHIP.

[♪♪♪] [♪♪♪] >> HELLO I'M BONNIE ERBE WELCOME TO TO THE CONTRARY A DISCUSSION OF NEWS AND SOCIAL TRENDS FROM DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES.

THE YEAR OF MERCY.

>> JUST WEEKS AHEAD OF POPE FRANCIS' VISIT TO AMERICA, THE PONTIFF MADE WHAT SOME SEE AS A HUMAN MOVE ON A CONTROVERSIAL ISSUE WITHIN THE CHURCH.

THE POPE IS AUTHORIZING PRIESTS AROUND THE WORLD TO FORGIVE THE QUOTE SIN OF ABORTION END QUOTE DURING THE UPCOMING HOLY YEAR OF MERCY STARTING IN DECEMBER.

ACCORDING TO THE CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IN MY OPINION WHO SEEKS AN ABORTION IS EXCOMMUNICATED BUT THE POPE SAYS THEY SHOULD BE ALLOWED BACK.

MANY PRIESTS HAD THE AUTHORITY BUT THE VAT KIP SAYS IT'S EXPANDING THE SCOPE.

ACTIVISTS APPLAUDED THE TONE BUT QUESTION HOW MUCH LASTING CHANGE WOULD BE AFFECTED.

SOME CATHOLICS SAY IT DOESN'T AMOUNT TO MUCH BECAUSE IT DOES THAT CHANGE CHURCH DOCTRINE.

WILL THIS LEAD TO A MORE UNDERSTANDING CHURCH?

>> THE CHURCH HAS ALWAYS BEEN UNDERSTANDING AND HAS COMPASSION AND LOVE AND THIS IS THE OPPORTUNITY FOR THE POPE TO EXPOUND ON THAT AND ALLOW OTHER PRIESTS TO GIVE THE FORGIVENESS.

>> IT IS ANOTHER BRILLIANT STEP BY THE POPE TOWARD MODERNIZING THE CATHOLIC CHURCH DRAWING BACK ADHERENCE WITHOUT CHANGING CHURCH DOCTRINE.

>> THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME THIS HAS BEEN DONE IN THE CHURCH.

THE LAST YEAR OF JUBILEE THEY DID THIS AS WELL.

>> THE POPE OF MERCY, ABSOLUTELY HE IS SO BELOVED IN THE WORLD IN THE CATHOLIC COMMUNITY AND I HAVE TO SPEAK FOR THE LATINO COMMUNITY.

A MORE UNDERSTANDING CHURCH.

>> BUT AS YOU POINTED OUT NO CHANGE OF DOCTRINE AND WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THIS IS THE SAME ORGANIZATION THAT MOVES SO SLOWLY THAT IT WAS 500 YEARS BEFORE MY BRAIN IS NOT WORKING -- BUT THE MAN WHO INVENTED -- DISCOVERED GRAVITY WAS ABSOLVED FOR THINKING THAT THE CHURCH WAS -- THAT WAS MATH.

NO.

BUT I WILL THINK OF IT IN A MINUTE.

>> VIEWERS RIGHT WRITE IN AND TELL ME.

ANYWAY 500 YEARS TO ABSOLVE HIM OF SAYING THAT THE EARTH WAS NOT FLAT.

SO... >> I MEAN, IT'S TRUE.

THIS IS ABOUT HOW YOU RELATE TO PEOPLE WHERE THEY ARE.

HE SPEAKS IN THOSE TERMS WHERE PEOPLE ARE YOU FORGIVE THEM, YOU HEAR THEM.

WHO AM I TO JUDGE.

BUT THE DOCTRINE PEOPLE DO NOT EXPECT FOR IT IT TO CHANGE?

>> EVER?

>> NOT IN THE SHORT-TERM.

THE SERVICE ARE GOING IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION FROM POINT 54% OF CATHOLICS THOUGHT HE WOULD ALLOW GAYS TO MARRY AND 30% AND THIS IS A PEW SURVEY THAT CAME OUT ABOUT CATHOLICS IN THE UNITED STATES.

SO HE IS UNDERSTANDING BUT HE IS GOING TO BE FIRM IN THE DOCTRINE.

>> TO ME, ANYWAY FROM AFAR, AND OBSERVING THIS GUY, FRANCIS IS INKEDDABLE AND NON--- INCREDIBLE AND NON-CATHOLICS ADORE HIM, BUT IT SEEMS TO ME THIS IS THE FIRST THING THAT HE HAS DONE SPECIFICALLY FOR WOMEN.

THERE WAS WHO AM I TO JUDGE ON GAYS, AND LESBIANS BUT THERE'S BEEN NOTHING SUBSTANTIVE IN TERMS HE TALKED ABOUT BRINGING WOMEN'S PHILOSOPHY MORE INTO THE CHURCH BUT HE IS NOT MOVING TOWARDS WOMEN AS PRIESTS.

>> THAT IS TRUE.

BUT HE HAS TALKED A GREAT DEAL ABOUT POVERTY AND HOW SERVICE AND THOSE ARE THINGS THAT DO AFFECT WOMEN.

AS WELL AS MEN ACROSS THE WORLD.

AND I JUST -- >> BUT THERE'S NOT DISAGREEMENT I DO NOT THINK ANYBODY WOULD DISAGREE THAT THE CHURCH SUCH SERVE THE POOR.

BUT THERE ARE PLENTY OF CATHOLICS DISAGREE WHETHER WOMEN SHOULD BE ABSOLVED FOR HAVING AN ABORTION.

>> IN HIS LETTER GIVING PERMISSION TO THE PRIESTS, HE SPEAKS ABOUT HOW HE UNDERSTANDS THAT THIS IS A VERY DIFFICULT DECISION FOR A WOMAN.

AND I BELIEVE IN HIS HEART I CANNOT SPEAK FOR HIM, BUT I BELIEVE HE WAS TRYING TO RELAY THAT HE DOES NOT BELIEVE EVERY WOMAN WHO HAS AN ABORTION IT DOING IT BECAUSE SHE HAS NOT THOUGHT ABOUT IT.

AND THE FACT THAT HE HAS MADE IT CLEAR THAT FORGIVENESS IS GOD'S TEACHING NOT MAN'S TEACHING.

AND I THINK IT'S INCREDIBLE AND A GREAT OPPORTUNITY FOR THE DIALOGUE.

AND PEOPLE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT WE HAVE A DOCTRINE IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.

I AM A PRACTICING CAT HE LICK.

HOWEVER, THE MAIN THING IS THAT FORGIVENESS IS DIVINE.

AND I MAYBE PRO-LIFE BUT -- >> EXCOMMUNICATION IS NOT DIVINE.

>> NO.

AND THAT IS PART OF THE CATECHISM.

>> WERE THEY STILL TO THIS DAY EXCOMMUNICATING WOMEN FOR HAVING ABORTIONS?

HOW OFTEN WAS THAT GOING ON?

>> UNLESS THE PERSON PROBABLY ACKNOWLEDGED IT TO THE CHURCH THEY WOULD HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING IT.

>> PRIESTS HAVE HAD THIS ABILITY -- >> SOME.

CERTAIN NOW IT'S ALL OF THEM.

FOR 11 MONTHS.

>> THERE IS A DIFFERENCE.

BUT IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO SEE THIS IN SOME CONTEXT.

THIS IS A DECLINING CHURCH.

HERE AND IN EUROPE AND AROUND THE WORLD.

WHERE PEOPLE ARE VERY RELIGIOUS THEY TEND TO GO TO THE FUNDAMENTALISTS RELIGION AS IN SOUTH AMERICA AND CENTRAL AMERICA.

SO THIS IS A POPE WHO UNDERSTANDS THE WORLD.

AND IS TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT HIS CHURCH, WHICH IS -- WHICH ALMOST NEVER CHANGES ITS DOCTRINE, NEVERTHELESS, REMAINS RELEVANT TO THE WORLD.

IT'S BECOME INCREASINGLY IRRELEVANT AND HE WANTS TO BRING THEM BACK.

AND I THINK THIS WILL HAVE THAT EFFECT.

>> SMART AS I SAW ON-LINE PR AND BUSINESS MOVE FRANKLY OF A FLAGGING BRAND NOT TO COMPARE THE CHURCH TO A BRAND.

BUT SERIOUSLY, YOU HAVE A BRAND THAT IS NOT SELLING AS WELL AS IT DID ONCE.

YOU MAKE STEPS TO CHANGE IT.

>> AND LET ME TELL YOU I WAS IN A PRESENTATION GIVEN BY THE BRAZILIANS A PERSON HIRED BY THE CHURCH TO DO THE RELEASE OF THE DOCTRINE ON THE ENVIRONMENT.

AND HE HAS TAKEN STRONG POSITIONS ON THE ENVIRONMENT.

SAVVY STRATEGY I WAS TAKEN BY IT.

HE IS MODERN.

HE IS THINKING ABOUT THE SUBSTANCE AND HOW TO COMMUNICATE THE MESSAGE.

I HAVE ONE MORE POINT ABOUT WOMEN.

REMEMBER THEY HAD A CASE AGAINST THE NUNS?

HE DROPPED THAT.

THAT IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE.

>> THE NUNS WERE HAVING PEOPLE SPEAK TOO LIBERAL FOR THE PRIOR POPE AND THEY WERE ABOUT TO HAVE THEIR ORDER REMOVED.

YOU DO NOT SEE THIS AS A BIG DEAL?

>> I THINK THERE IS A SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE SAYING AS A CATHOLIC OR CHRISTIAN THAT ABORTION IS WRONG HOWEVER WE ARE NOT GOING TO EXCOMMUNICATE YOU IF IF YOU HAVE HAD ONE AND WANT TO BE A PART OF THE CHURCH.

THAT IS SIGNIFICANT.

IT IS A SIGNIFICANT STEP TO SAY GOD IS MERCY AND GOD IS LOVE AND WE WILL BRING YOU BACK INTO THE FOLD IF YOU FEEL BAD AND THAT IS WHAT YOU WANT.

>> LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK.

FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER @BONNIEERBE.

FROM THE VATICAN TO COLLEGE CAMPUSES.

A NEW STUDY CASTS DOUBT ON THE STATISTIC THAT ONE IN FIVE WOMEN IS SEXUALLY ASSAULTED ON CAMPUS.

THE SURVEY CONDUCTED BY THE UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY, CONCLUDES A MUCH LOWER ONE IN 20 STUDENTS IS ASSAULTED.

THE ONE IN FIVE NUMBER HAS BEEN FOUND AT DIFFERENT SCHOOLS IN A-YEAR-OLD RUTGERS UNIVERSITY SURVEY.

FEWER THAN A THIRD OF STUDENTS RESPONDED TO THE RUTGERS SURVEY.

CRITICS SAY THAT LED TO SELF SELECTION BECAUSE STUDENTS WHO HAD BEEN ASSAULTED WERE MORE LIKELY TO RESPOND.

THE KENTUCKY SURVEY REQUIRED ALL STUDENTS TO RESPOND.

AND THE RUTGERS SURVEY USED EXPANSIVE DEFINITIONS OF SEXUAL ASSAULT AND KENTUCKY STICKS TO THE LEGAL DESCRIPTION OF SEXUAL ASSAULT.

THE STATISTIC APPLIES TO UNDERGRADUATE WOMEN AND THE ONE IN 20 STATISTIC IS FOR THE STUDENT BODY IN GENERAL BUT THERE'S REASON TO BELIEVE IT REMAINS VALID WITH UNDERGRADUATE WOMEN AS WELL BECAUSE EARLIER SURVEYS PRODUCED SIMILAR RESULTS.

CONSERVATIVES HAVE BEEN SAYING NOW THAT CAMPUS SEXUAL ASSAULT IS OVERBLOWN AND LET US SAY WHETHER IT'S ONE IN FIVE OR ONE IN 20 ANYTHING IS LESS THAN ZERO IS TOO MUCH.

BUT IS THIS THE STUDY THAT SHOWS US OUT THIS WEEK THAT CONSERVATIVES HAVE BEEN RIGHT ALL ALONG?

>> THE PROBLEM WITH THESE STUDIES AND A LOT OF TIMES THE POLLS AND SURVEYS IS THAT THERE IS SOMETHING THAT IS A MEASURE THAT IS GOING TO BE WRONG.

TALKING ABOUT AT KENTUCKY EVERYONE HAD TO TAKE IT BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN EVERYBODY WAS TRUTHFUL.

BEING SEXUALLY ASSAULTED IS SOMETHING THAT YOU MIGHT NOT WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW EVEN ON A SURVEY.

THE NUMBER COULD BE HIGHER BUT I HAVE THOUGHT PERSONALLY IN MY EXPERIENCES IN COLLEGE THE ONE IN FIVE NUMBER WAS A LITTLE BIT HIGHER THAN I THOUGHT TALKING TO MY FRIENDS AND PEOPLE WHO I FEEL WOULD HAVE TOLD ME THAT.

I NEVER MET ANYONE THAT MANY PEOPLE SEXUALLY ASSAULTED.

>> AND I -- WE'VE DISCUSSED THIS MANY TIMES ON THIS PROGRAM, INCLUDING LAST WEEK, IN A DIFFERENT CONTEXT BUT JUST KIDS GOING BACK TO SCHOOL AND I HAVE ALWAYS THAT HE MY -- THOUGHT MY GIRLFRIENDS AND I WERE HONEST IN COLLEGE THERE WAS NOTHING LIKE ONE IN FIVE WOMEN GETTING ASSAULTED THAT THEY TALKED ABOUT AT THE TIME.

CERTAINLY NOT CAMPUS.

NOW, I DID KNOW GROWING UP IN NEW YORK CITY WOMEN ASSAULTED ON THE SUBWAYS AND THE STREETS AT NIGHT IN DARK NEIGHBORHOODS.

WHAT HAVE YOU.

BUT NOT SO MUCH CONNECTED WITH UNIVERSITY LIFE.

SO I HAVE BEEN LOOKING TO FIND OUT WHY THE DIFFERENCE, WHY THE HUGE DIFFERENCE?

IS IT CULTURAL OR FAULTY SURVEYS?

>> IT'S SEX AND THE ISSUE IS DEFINITIONAL HERE IS WHERE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT COULD BE HELPFUL TO GATHER A GROUP OF UNIVERSITY REPRESENTATIVES SO THAT WHEN WE SURVEY WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME THING.

THE REAL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THESE STUDIES IS HOW BROAD YOU WANT TO FRAME THE ISSUE.

NOW, YOU CAN ALL GET THAT IT'S IMPORTANT TO FRAME IT BROADLY.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IF YOU WANT TO PARTICULARLY DO WHAT THEY ARE DOING AND ALMOST 140 INSTITUTIONS ARE UNDER INVESTIGATION, YOU OUGHT TO HAVE A DEFINITION THAT EVEN IF CONTROVERSIAL, IS ONE THAT IS OBJECTIVELY ARRIVED AT.

AND THAT IS WHY THIS DISPARITY IN STUDIES CANNOT GO ON AND WHY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO BE HELPFUL.

>> THE WHITE HOUSE QUOTED THE RUTGERS STUDY.

I MEAN WAS THAT SLOPPY?

>> UNTIL THE STUDIES CAME OUT.

AND IT'S NOT BECAUSE THEY DID IT.

IT'S BECAUSE THEY WERE TAKING THIS AMAL GUM OF RESEARCH AND IT FALLS ON THEM.

TO STRAIGHTEN OUT THIS MESS.

>> AS A MOTHER OF A 16-YEAR-OLD READY TO GO TO COLLEGE IN A COUPLE OF YEARS THIS IS TOTALLY ALARMING.

AND I AM WITH YOU.

I IN THE SENSE THAT THE NUMBER SEEMS DISPROPORTIONATE AND THE KENTUCKY SURVEY LET'S AGREE THAT THE KENTUCKY SURVEY WAS DONE RIGHT AND STILL TOO MANY PEOPLE.

WHAT IS GOING ON?

WHAT CULTURE?

I AM WITH YOU I DON'T REMEMBER HAVING THAT EXPERIENCE IN COLLEGE.

BUT I HAVE TO BELIEVE THAT SOMETHING IS GOING ON.

AND THERE IS SOMETHING GOING ON AND I'M NOT SURE WHAT IT IS.

>> THAT HAS BEEN MY QUESTION.

IS IT THE HOOK UP CULTURE?

IS IT WOMEN YOU KNOW, IS IT MALE-FEMALE RELATIONSHIPS AND REMEMBER ALSO A LARGE NUMBER OF SEXUAL ASSAULTS AS IN THE MILITARY ARE MALE ON MALE ASSAULTS NOT AS MANY AS IN THE MILITARY.

BUT -- >> HOW ABOUT ALCOHOL CONSUMPTION AND THE CULTURE OF DRINKING IN COLLEGE AND THERE'S DRUGS IN COLLEGE.

IS THAT FUELING THIS?

>> THERE IS NO EXCUSE REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE PARAMETERS ARE.

AND I AGREE WITH WHAT EVERYONE IS SAYING.

THE DRUGS AND THE ALCOHOL ALL THOSE ARE FACT ARES TO.

AND -- FACTORS AND THE WOMEN NOT DEFINING -- NOT KNOWING WHAT TO DEFINE AS SEXUAL ASSAULT.

WHAT MAYBE SEXUAL ASSAULT TO ONE PERSON IS NOT TO ANOTHER.

ANYONE WHO DOES SOMETHING TO SOMEONE ELSE IF THEY DON'T WANT IT DONE, EVEN IF IT'S TOUCHING ON THE SHOULDER, THE POINT IS IF SHE OR HE WAS UNWELCOME IT SHOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED THEN THEY NEED TO REPORT IT.

BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE NOT REPORTING IT.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S SHAME OR EMBARRASSMENT OR IF THEY FEEL IF THEY REPORT IT THEY WILL NOT BE BELIEVED.

THOSE ARE OTHER ISSUES THAT REALLY HAVE TO BE ADDRESSED.

>> ELEANOR AS YOU POINTED OUT, THE WHITE HOUSE HAS 140 INSTITUTIONS UNDER ITS WATCH TO SEE WHAT THEY DO.

AND HAVING TOLD THEM THEY HAVE NOT DONE ENOUGH TO STOP RAPE OR ASSAULT ON CAMPUS.

WHAT IS THE NEXT STEP TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE ALL REALLY HAVE PROBLEMS OF THE MAGNITUDE THAT HAS BEEN BELIEVED?

>> WELL, THAT IS WHY I'M PUTTING THE BURDEN ON THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

LAW ENFORCEMENT IS INVOLVED IN THIS, WHEN YOU DEFINE SEXUAL ASSAULT AS BROADLY AS YOU HAVE JUST DEFINED IT, AND UNDERSTANDABLY SO.

AND WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT PENETRATION.

WE DON'T KNOW WHETHER WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ANATIONAL OR ORAL SEX.

BUT WE KNOW THIS AND WHAT IS MORE SHOCKING IS THE FIGURE USED FOR HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS.

ONE IN FOUR.

AND THAT SAYS TO ME THERE'S SOMETHING PROFOUNDLY CULTURAL.

THESE ARE THE BEST AND THE BRIGHTEST.

SEX AT AN EARLY AGE IS APPARENTLY ALLOWED OR HAPPENS.

AND THEY BRING IT WITH THEM TO THE COLLEGE CAMPUS.

SO I WOULD NOT SIMPLY BRING THE UNIVERSITIES TOGETHER IN SOME REPRESENTATIVE FORM, I WOULD BRING THE HIGH SCHOOLS WHERE APPARENTLY STARTS.

>> I THINK THERE IS A HUGE CASE IN NEW ENGLAND OF A -- A PROMINENT SCHOOL.

>> AND HE WAS ONLY CONVICTED OF MINOR CHARGES.

>> AND AGAIN THE DEFENSE SAID WELL SHE TEXTED HIM AFTERWARDS AND THAT WAS HIS DEFENSE THAT IT WAS NOT A RAPE BECAUSE SHE COMMUNICATED WITH HIM.

IT DEPENDS WHAT WAS IN THE TEXT?

ANYWAY WE HAVE TO MOVE ON.

BEHIND THE HEADLINES AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMEN IN THE WORKFORCE ARE LARGELY UNDER REPRESENTED IN LEADERSHIP POSITIONS.

A NEW BOOK FINDS THIS IS ESPECIALLY TRUE IN LABOR UNIONS WHICH ARE SUPPOSED TO EXCEL IN DIVERSITY.

KIMBERLY FREEMAN BROWN SAYS BLACK WOMEN HAVE UNTAPPED POTENTIAL TO LEAD THE LABOR MOVEMENT BUT NOT ENOUGH OPPORTUNITY.

>> I DO NOT THINK THAT BLACK WOMEN KNOW THE POWER THAT THAT SUGGESTS IN TERMS OF THEIR ABILITY TO ORGANIZE AND FORM UNIONS SO THAT WE CAN HAVE BETTER WAGELESS, WORKPLACE SAFETY -- WAGES, WORKPLACE SAFETY, INSLAINS FROM DISCRIMINATION.

>> AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMEN EARNED 64 CENTS FOR EVERY DOLLAR EARNED BY WHITE MEN.

THEY HOLD FEWER POSITIONS IN FIELDS THAT PAY ENOUGH TO SUPPORT THEIR FAMILIES.

LATIFA LYLES DIRECTOR OF THE WOMEN'S BUREAU AT THE DEPARTMENT OF LABOR EXPLAINS WHAT BLACK WOMEN FACE.

>> WOMEN OF COLOR MAKEUP A DISPROPORTIONATE NUMBER OF LOW WAGE WORKERS INCLUDING MINIMUM WAGE JOBS AND BELOW.

WHILE WOMEN MAKEUP HALF NEARLY OF THE LABOR FORCE AND ARE GRADUATING AT HIGHER RATES THEY ARE STILL NOT GETTING AN EQUAL SHOT AT CAREER ADVANCEMENT.

>> KIMBERLY FREEMAN BROWN WROTE A REPORT WITH THE PROGRESSIVE INSTITUTE FOR POLICY STUDIES CALLED AND STILL I RISE.

IT ASSESSES THE EFFECTIVENESS OF BRACK WOMEN'S LEADERSHIP IN THE LABOR MOVEMENT.

>> AND STILL I RISE IS A COLLECTION OF INTERVIEWS WITH 27 BLACK WOMEN LABOR LEADERS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

>> RETIRED A.F.L.-C.I.O.

EXECUTIVE ROSALYN PELLES IS FEATURED IN THE BOOK.

>> I -- I THINK THE BOOK IS REALLY IMPORTANT ESPECIALLY FOR WOMEN WHO ARE IN UNIONS AND IN THE LABOR MOVEMENT AND DO NOT SEE THEMSELVES AS LEADERS.

>> A SURVEY BY THE LIBERAL INSTITUTE FOR POLICY STUDIES FOUND THAT WHILE 65% OF WOMEN ASPIRE TO LEADERSHIP IN UNIONS, 49% BELIEVE THERE IS A GLASS CEILING PREVENTING BLACK WOMEN FROM ADVANCING.

>> IT SURVEYED 500 AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMEN IN SOME WAY CONNECTED TO THE LABOR MOVEMENT.

YOU HAD WOMEN ON THE ONE HAND IN THE 90% TILE SAYING THAT THEY SUPPOSED UNIONIZATION.

AND SAW UNIONS AS VERY IMPORTANT IN THE WORKPLACE.

FOR GOOD JOBS OR WAGES AND FOR EQUAL PAY FOR EQUAL WORK AND FOR HAVING A VOICE AT WORK.

WHAT THAT SAYS TO ME IS THAT AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMEN HAVE NOT GIVEN UP ON UNIONS.

WE HAVE STEADFASTLY HELD ON TO THE IMPORTANCE OF BUILDING UNIONS IN THIS COUNTRY.

AND NOW IT'S TIME FOR THE LABOR MOVEMENT TO APPRECIATE WHAT WE BRING.

>> UNION MEMBERSHIP DECLINED OVER THE YEARS FROM A HIGH IN 1945.

89% OF MAJOR UNIONS HAVE MALE PRESIDENTS.

94% HAVE WHITE PRESIDENTS.

THE INSTITUTE STUDY REVEALS THE CHALLENGES.

BUT ALSO OFFERS SOLUTIONS TO PREPELL BLACK -- PROPEL BLACK WOMEN FORWARD.

>> LET'S CREATE A PIPELINE SO THAT BLACK WOMEN WHO HAVE LEADERSHIP POTENTIAL CAN RISE TO POSITIONS OF POWER.

>> THE LABOR MOVEMENT AND THE UNIONS HAVE TO RECRUIT AND LOOK FOR THE LEADERS AND THEY DO NOT HAVE TO LOOK FAR.

>> PART OF THE REASON I WROTE AND STILL I RISE AND THE PROJECT IS TO HELP WOMEN LOOK AT WHAT ARE THE THINGS THE TOOLS THEY CAN USE TO OVERCOME THE OBSTACLES.

>> ROSALYN PELLES BELIEVES IN ORDER FOR WOMEN OF COLOR TO ADVANCE LEADERS MUST ADDRESS AS THE MOVEMENT'S FAILURE ON DIVERSITY.

SHE HAS EXPERIENCE HOW LABOR AND SOCIAL JUSTICE ARE CONNECTED.

>> THE LABOR MOVEMENT HAS TO TALK ABOUT ISSUES THAT CONCERN WORKERS IN THE WORKPLACE AND HAVE TO TALK ABOUT ISSUES THAT CONCERN WORKERS OUTSIDE THE WORKPLACE.

>> WE HAVE TO BE A PART OF ON A DAILY BASIS BLACK LIVES MATTER.

WE HAVE TO BE A PART OF ON A DAILY BASIS VOTING RIGHTS STRUGGLES.

THE LABOR UNIONS AND THE LABOR MOVEMENT HAS TO EMBRACE AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMEN WORKERS.

>> AND STILL I RISE RECOGNIZES THERE IS POWER IN NUMBER AND ACKNOWLEDGES THE VALUE OF UNIONS FOR WOMEN.

WHILE THERE'S BEEN PROGRESS, THESE LEADERS SAY PARITY IS STILL A LONG WAY OFF.

>> UFAAL WOMEN WHO COME OUT OF ORGANIZED LABOR WHO HAVE BEEN TRAINED UP HOW TO REALLY ORGANIZE PEOPLE.

SO THE QUESTION THEN BECOMES: WILL THE LABOR MOVEMENT OPEN THE DOORS AND CREATE THE LEADERSHIP OPPORTUNITIES FOR THEM TO BE ABLE TO EMERGE AS THE LEADERS THEY ARE CAPABLE OF BECOMING?

>> WILL IT?

AND WHY HASN'T IT UP TO NOW IN PERCENTAGES THAT WOULD BE CLOSE TO BLACK WOMEN'S MEMBERSHIPS?

THE UNIONS?

>> I THINK THAT THIS STUDY CALLING OUT THE LABOR ITSELF BY WOMEN WITHIN LABOR IS GOING TO BE USEFUL.

LET'S FACE IT.

THE LABOR MOVEMENT WAS A MAJOR INSTITUTION PROPELLING US TOWARDS EQUAL.

HERE WE HAVE A GROUP OPEN, PROBABLY MORE OPEN ALL OF THE SURVEYS SHOW US TO UNIONIZATION THAT MOST OTHER GROUPS NOT BEING TAPPED IN PART BECAUSE OF THE LEADERSHIP IS NOT THERE.

ONE OF THE MAIN REASONS, THOUGH, IS WHERE BLACK WOMEN WORK.

IN LOW WAGE INDUSTRIES WHERE IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO ORGANIZE.

THE MORE DIFFICULT IT IS, THE MORE YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE YOU HAVE LEADERSHIP OF THE KIND YOU ARE TRYING TO DRAW TO THE LABOR MOVEMENT.

>> AND I THINK WE NEED TO -- IT'S REALLY ABOUT CULTURE.

IT'S ABOUT IF THESE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT YOU NEED IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN A STRONG UNION THEN YOU HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO ACTIVELY CULTIVATE AND BUILD LEADERSHIP AMONG THAT COMMUNITY.

TONIGHT HAS TO BE INTENTIONAL.

IT CANNOT BE IT DOESN'T WALK THROUGH THE DOOR.

YOU HAVE TO DO IT.

I THINK THERE IS A STRATEGY HERE FOR THE SURVIVAL AND THRIVING OF THE UNION MOVEMENT.

>> DO YOU THINK THE UNION MOVEMENT HAS BEEN ANY LESS OR MORE SUPPORTIVE OF LATINAS PROMOTING THEM?

I REMEMBER LINDA CHAVEZ THOMPSON, I THINK A.F.L.-C.I.O., AND -- >> WELL, I MEAN OF COURSE THE LATINO COMMUNITY ALL THE LOW-WAGE WORKERS ARE CRITICAL TO THE GROWTH OF THE UNION.

THEY HAVE DONE SOME BUT THEY CAN DO BETTER.

>> AN INTERESTING THING I'VE NOTICED IN COVERING THE PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN IS THAT THE BLACK LIVES MATTER MOVEMENT IS PAIRED UP MOST OF THE TIME WITH UNIONS.

IT'S SUPPORTED BY UNION MEMBERS.

WHAT I HAVE BEEN SEEING IS A LOT OF BLACK WOMEN OUT UP FRONT LEADING THE CHARGE, LEADING THE FIGHT AGAINST A LOT OF THESE WORKERS ISSUES THROUGH THAT MOVEMENT.

REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU THINK OF BLACK LIVES MATTER, I THINK THAT IS AN OUTLET TO WHICH THEY HAVE BEEN TAKING A STAND MORE RECENTLY.

>> IS UNIONIZATION AND TRYING TO GAIN LEADERSHIP IN UNIONS THE WAY FOR AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMEN TO GO?

DO YOU THINK?

OR BECAUSE LET'S FACE IT FEWER UNIONS, LAST TIME I SAW ABOUT 13%, 11% SOMETHING LIKE THAT OF WORKERS WERE REPRESENTED BY A UNION IN THIS COUNTRY.

WAY DOWN FROM MUCH HIGHER NUMBERS 50 YEARS AGO.

BUT ARE BLACK WOMEN FALLING OUT OF THE MOVEMENT BECAUSE THE REST OF THE COUNTRY IS FALLING OUT OF THE MOVEMENT?

>> IT IS A BIT OF BOTH.

I'M NOT VERY SUPPORTIVE OF UNIONS IN THAT IF THEY ARE NOT REALLY DO ANYTHING FOR THE WORKERS AND THE BIG MUCKIES ON TOP ARE PROFITING.

THAT BEING SAID YOU CAN LOOK AT THE UNIONS AND BRINGING BLACK WOMEN INTO HIGHER OFFICES MIGHT BE HELPFUL.

AND ALSO FOCUS ON EDUCATION.

AND THE OPPORTUNITIES TO YOUNG BLACK WOMEN.

WE TALK ABOUT STEM, AND TALK ABOUT ALL THESE OTHER AREAS THAT WE DON'T HAVE LATINA, AFRICAN-AMERICAN GIRLS OR BOYS GETTING INVOLVED.

IT IS A COMBINATION OF THINGS.

>> BUT THERE ARE NOT A LOT OF UNIONS IN STEM FIELDS MAYBE.

THAT IS PART OF THE PROBLEM.

>> WELL IT IS MORE -- YOU ARE RIGHT.

BUT AGAIN YOU DO NOT NEED A UNION TO GET MORE PEOPLE INTO STEM.

YOU NEED PEOPLE IN THOSE POSITIONS TO START TO BRING PEOPLE IN.

>> THAT IS THE POINT I WAS GOING TO MAKE ABOUT THE UNIONS YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE FIELDS THAT THE UNIONS COVER.

TEACHERS THERE IS A LOT OF WOMEN BUT SOME OF THE OTHER FIELDS IT GOES BEYOND BLACK OR LATINA THERE IS NOT A LOT OF WOMEN.

>> LOWEST PAID WORKERS IN THE COUNTRY ARE BLACK AND LATINO WOMEN YET YOU WILL FIND MEN ON TOP.

IT'S BECAUSE THIS HAS BEEN A MALE INSTITUTION.

REMEMBER WHEN IT WAS AT THE STRENGTH IT WAS IN FACTORIES WHERE LARGE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE COULD HELP EACH OTHER TO UNDERSTAND WHY UNIONS ARE IMPORTANT.

NOW YOU HAVE TO GO INTO PLACES LIKE McDONALD'S.

>> HEALTHCARE WORKERS.

>> HEALTHCARE WORKERS.

AND THEY ARE COMING ALONG.

BUT, YES, IT'S HARD WORK TO ORGANIZE ANYBODY TODAY.

>> THAT'S IT FOR THIS EDITION.

FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER AND VISIT OUR WEBSITE, PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.

AND WHETHER YOU AGREE OR THINK TO THE CONTRARY SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

AND BY THE WAY, I WAS THINKING OF GALILEO.

AND HE DID NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH -- GRAVITY.

IT WAS -- [LAUGHTER] [♪♪♪] FOR A TRANSCRIPT OR TO SEE AN ON-LINE VERY, OF THIS EPISODE OF THE TO THE CONTRARY VISIT OUR PBS WEBSITE AT PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.

[♪♪♪]