>> COMING UP IN THE NEXT HOUR OF LOCAL NEWS ON ARIZONA HORIZON, ON ARIZONA HORIZON, IT'S FRIDAY, THAT MEANS THE JOURNALISTS ROUND TABLE WITH A LOOK AT TOP STORIES OF THE WEEK.

A STORY OF INDIGENOUS WOMEN RECONNECTING WITH ANCESTRAL FOODS AND RECLAIMING THEIR CULTURE.

>>> A DISCUSSION ON THE ISSUE OF WHITE WOMEN AND PRIVILEGE, ALL HEALED IN THE NEXT HOUR ON ARIZONA PBS.

>> MEMBERS OF YOUR PBS STATION, THANK YOU.

>> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO ARIZONA HORIZON.

I'M TED SIMONS.

IT'S FRIDAY AND THAT MEANS IT'S TIME FOR ANOTHER EDITION OF JOURNALISTS ROUND TABLE.

LORI ROBERTS OF THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC, MARY JO OF THE OR HIS RE.

AND BOB FRITZY OF THE ARIZONA PRESS, WE'LL START WITH THE LEGISLATIVE PREVIEW THAT STARTS MONDAY.

WHAT DO WE EXPECT, NEW FACES, THE BIG ISSUES?

>> OBVIOUSLY THERE WILL BE A LOT OF NEW FACES BECAUSE WE'VE HAD 13 NEW LAWMAKERS BE APPOINTED TO THE LEGISLATURE SINCE THEY LAST MET IN JUNE AND THAT WAS DUE TO A LOT OF RESIGNATIONS FOR MYRIAD OF REASONS.

WE WILL HAVE NEW FACES.

WHETHER THEY'LL ALL BE THERE IS ANOTHER QUESTION, WE HAVE A VIRUS RUNNING AROUND AND HAVE REPORTS OF LAWMAKERS WHO HAVE CONTRACTED COVID, SO WE'LL BE LOOKING FOR EMPTY SEATS, AS WELL AS NEW FACES IN FULL SEATS.

>> DIDN'T WE HAVE ONE LAWMAKER EXPECTING A CHILD OR SOMETHING ALONG THESE LINES, SAYING I WANT TO DO REMOTE AND BASICALLY NO MA'AM.

>> RIGHT.

>> REPRESENTING PART OF TEMPE AS A DEMOCRATIC, SHE IS NINE MONTHS PREGNANT WITH HER FIRST CHILD, OR AS CLOSE TO NINE MONTHS AS YOU CAN GET AND STILL BE PREGNANT AND SHE IS ASKING FOR THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE, THE REPUBLICAN SPEAKER TO ALLOW HER TO ATTEND REMOTELY FOR SAFETY REASONS, THE SAFETY OF HER BABY, SAFETY OF HERSELF.

SO FAR THERE'S NO WORD ON THAT YET FROM THE SPEAKER, BUT THERE WILL BE AN ACCOMMODATION FOR HER, I SUSPECT, STRONGLY SUSPECT, I'M TOLD THEIR WORKING ON THAT.

THERE ARE SOME REPUBLICAN MEMBERS WHO ALSO HAVE THEY'RE EITHER OLDER OR IN POOR HEALTH OR THEY IN FACT HAVE CRONKITE AND CAN'T ATTEND, SO THERE WILL BE PROBABLY SOME ACCOMMODATIONS FOR THAT.

>> SO OTHER THAN, YOU KNOW, ATTENDANCE ISSUES, I MEAN BIG ISSUES WILL BE OF COURSE THE BUDGET AS IT ALWAYS IS AND WE HAVE A NEW -- IT'S A NEW DAWN FOR HOW YOU PUT TOGETHER A BUDGET, GIVEN THE SUPREME COURT.

THERE WILL ALWAYS BE EDUCATION BILLS AND ONE OF THE EDUCATIONS IS A HOT TOPIC.

ONE OF THE THINGS THEY HAVE TO WRESTLE WITH IS TO GIVE A WAFER TO THE AGGREGATE SPENDING CAP ON SCHOOLS.

THAT SEEMED TO BE AN EARLY SLAM DUNK KNOWING SCHOOLS WOULD EXCEED THE SPENDING CAP.

NOW REPUBLICANS ARE SAYING WE'VE GOT TO GET A COUPLE OF OTHER THINGS TAKEN CARE OF BEFORE WE CAN DO THAT.

>> THIS IS THE BIG ISSUE TO SCHOOLS THIS YEAR.

FORGET ABOUT CRITICAL RACE THEORY AND MASKS, THE REAL ISSUE IS GOING TO BE THIS SPENDING.

WHEN THEY COME UP AGAINST THIS SPENDING LIMIT IN MARCH, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO CUT IF THE SPENDING LIMIT IS NOT RAISED, CUT $1.2 BILLION AND THERE'S ONLY TWO OR THREE MONTHS LEFT IN THE YEAR, SO HOW DO YOU DO THAT.

I'M HEARING FROM REPUBLICAN LEGISLATURE THERE'S NOT A WHOLE BIG APPETITE TO DO THAT RIGHT NOW BECAUSE IF THEY DO THAT, THAT MIGHT HELP RESUSCITATE PROP 208, THE VOTER INITIATIVE THAT RAISED TAXES ON THE RICH WHICH SEEMS TO BE ON LIFE SUPPORT BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT IT'S BURNING UP AGAINST THE SPENDING LIMIT.

YOU RAISE THE SPENDING LIMIT, YOU GIVE NEW LIFE TO THAT.

>> WHICH IS VERY COMPLICATED.

ALSO COMPLICATED REGARDING THE WAY BUDGET BILLS ARE CONSTRUCTED, THE SUPREME COURT UNANIMOUS DECISION SAID WHAT YOU'RE DOING THERE, DON'T DO THAT ANYMORE.

WITH A THAT IN MIND, ALL THOSE BILLS PASSED ILLEGALLY LAST YEAR, ARE WE GOING TO SEE A SPECIAL SESSION TO GET THOSE THINGS PASSED RIGHT NOW.

>> THERE MAY BE A SPECIAL SESSION FOR COVID RESTRICTIONS PACKED INTO THE BUDGET UNCONSTITUTIONALLY, THE COURT SAID THAT THERE'S A BUNCH OF OTHER STUFF THAT WAS ALSO IN THERE.

THERE WAS TAKING POWER FROM THE SECRETARY OF STATE TO RUN -- TO DO SOME ELECTION THINGS AND RUN THE STATE, THE CAPITOL.

>> MUSEUM.

>> MUSEUM.

THERE IS CRITICAL RACE THEORY IS IN THERE, WHICH WE KNOW IS COMING BACK.

THERE ARE COVID VACCINE MANDATE DATES IN THERE, A BAN ON THEM AT SCHOOLS, BUSINESSES, UNIVERSITIES, MASK MANDATES ARE NO GO IN SCHOOLS AND IN UNIVERSITIES.

THOSE ARE COMING BACK QUICKLY.

THOSE WILL ALL BE PASSED.

SOME OF THESE THINGS DID NOT HAVE THE VOTES TO PASS ON THEIR OWN AND GOT STUCK IN THE BUDGET, BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE BUDGET IS YOU GET 31 REPUBLICANS, WHICH IS THE MAJORITY IN THE HOUSE AND TO GET THEM ALL ONBOARD OF BUDGET, YOU HAVE TO BUY THEM ALL OFF.

IT'S CALLED LOG ROLLING, YOU PUT IN A BILL THAT DOESN'T HAVE ENOUGH SUPPORT AND YOU PUT IT INTO THE BUDGET AND THAT GETS LEGISLATURE A, LEGISLATOR A., YOU DO THE SAME THING WITH A PET PROJECT OF LEGISLATOR B AND TWIST ENOUGH ARMS TO GET THEM ALL TO HOLD THEIR NOSE AND VOTE FOR THINGS THEY WOULDN'T HAVE.

>> ARE WE GOING TO SEE MORE OF THIS LOG ROLLING.

>> I DON'T THINK THEY CAN DO IT BASED ON THE SUPREME COURT.

THE SUPREME COURT SAID IF YOU'RE GOING TO PASS BILLS THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE BUDGET, YOU NEED TO PASS THEM AS SEPARATE BILLS, WHICH MEANS PUBLIC HEARINGS AND LEGISLATORS WHO TAKE A PUBLIC STABBED ON THEM.

>> BACK TO MY ORIGINAL CONVENTION, SOME OF THE THINGS THAT NEEDED TO BE LOG ROLLED IN THE PAST, COULDN'T THEY STAND, APPARENTLY THEY COULDN'T STAND ON THEIR OWN LAST YEAR, COULD THEY THIS YEAR?

>> DEPENDENCY ON HOW MUCH ARM TWISTING HAPPENS.

THERE'S ALWAYS THE VOTE TRADING THAT HAPPENS, I'LL SUPPORT YOUR BILL ON THIS IF YOU SUPPORT MY BILL ON THAT.

SO WE WILL SEE, BUT THERE WILL BE AN ATTEMPT AS BOB SAID TO BRING BACK A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT WERE ULTIMATELY PASSED IN THE FINAL BUDGET, EVEN THOUGH AS INDIVIDUAL COMPONENTS, THEY DIDN'T HAVE MAJORITY SUPPORT.

>> THE ALTERNATIVE OF COURSE WOULD BE IF YOU HAVE A LEGISLATOR WHO PUTS THEY'RE FEET IN CONCRETE AND SAYS NO WAY NO HOW AM I VOTING FOR THIS BUDGET UNLESS YOU GIVE ME WHAT I WANT, YOU COULD GO THE BIPARTISAN ROUTE AND BRING IN DEMOCRATS AND TRY TO GET THEIR VOTES.

IT'S AN IDEA TOWARDS BIPARTISANSHIP.

[ LAUGHTER ] >> WITH A BARE MINIMUM LEGISLATURE, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DO SOMETHING.

>> IS THERE GOING TO BE A JOE MAN CHIN KRISTIN CINEMA?

>> I DON'T SEE IT HAPPENING.

IT'S NOT IN THE DNA OF THE REPUBLICAN MAJORITY TO DO ANY BUDGET THAT GIVES DEMOCRATS ANYTHING, AND INCLUDING THEY MAY GIVE THEM A COUPLE OF SPRINKLES ARE ITEMS, BUT THEY WILL NOT PASS A BUDGET IF IT REQUIRES DEMOCRATIC VOTES.

>> REAL QUICKLY, LONG SESSION OR SHORT SESSION?

>> OH, WE'LL BE HERE A LONG TIME.

>> WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> I THINK WE'LL BE CELEBRATING THE FOURTH OF JULY AND STILL TALKING ABOUT THE ARIZONA LEGISLATURE.

>> LONG SESSION.

GOVERNOR DUCEY TODAY SAID THAT HE'S FINE WITH LONG SESSIONS.

HE LIKES WORKING IN OFFICE.

>> HE'S NOT RUNNING.

SOME OF THESE FOLKS ARE RUNNING FOR SOMETHING.

DON'T THEY WANT A SHORTER SESSION?

>> WE HAVE A PRIMARY FIRST WEEK IN AUGUST.

IF THE LEGISLATURE GETS ITS WORK DONE BY THE ABSOLUTE DEADLINE OF JULY 1, WE'LL SEE.

>> AND OF COURSE, EVERYTHING STARTS OFF WITH THE GOVERNOR'S STATE OF THE STATE ADDRESS.

LORI, WHAT DO WE EXPECT TO HEAR FROM THE GOVERNOR.

HE'S NOT RUNNING FOR ANYTHING NOT THAT WE KNOW OF YET.

>> HE'S ALWAYS RUNNING FOR SOMETHING.

>> SELF CELEBRATORY, BIG IDEAS, WHAT?

>> IF HE BRINGS THE FOURTH BIG IDEA, IT WOULD BE THE FIRST TIME SINCE HE BECAME GOVERNOR SEVEN YEARS AGO, EIGHT YEARS AGO, WHATEVER IT WAS.

THIS WILL BE THE FIRST GOVERNOR SINCE THE 1980'S THAT HAS ACTUALLY GOTTEN TO HIS EIGHTH FINAL STATE OF THE STATE ADDRESS.

CREDIT TO HIM FOR STICKING THROUGH IT.

I EXPECT TO HEAR ABOUT EDUCATION, PROBABLY A LOT ABOUT MICRO MANAGING SCHOOLS, CRITICAL RACE THEORY AND OF COURSE THE MASK MANDATE AND ALL THOSE THINGS HE THINKS SCHOOL BOARDS SHOULD NOT BE DECIDING.

I THINK HE'S GOING TO HIT REALLY HARD ON THE BORED PERSON WE'VE SEEN HIM IN RECENT MONTHS BEATING TRACKS DOWN TO THE BORDER EVERY COUPLE OF MONTHS IT SEEMS TO DECRY WHAT'S GOING ON OUT THERE, AND UNDERSTANDABLY SO.

BUT YOU ALSO HAVE SEVERAL GUBINATORIAL CANDIDATES COMING UP WITH PRETTY STRONG BORDER PLANS.

HE MAY WANT TO BE GETTING AHEAD OF THAT, AS WELL.

>> WITH THAT IN MIND?

A SPEECH OR ARIZONANS OR NATIONAL EARS?

>> NO, IT'S AN ARIZONA CENTERED SPEECH NO DOUBT IN MY MIND, ANY WAY.

THE GOVERNOR IS SPEAKING TO REPUBLICAN LEGISLATURE, REPUBLICAN LED LEGISLATURE.

HE WANTS TO LAY OUT A VERY HIGH BAR FOR HIS LAST SESSION.

HE WANTS TO GET SOME, WHAT HE THINKS IS BIG THINGS DONE.

HE WANTS WATER INFRASTRUCTURE.

WE HAVE HEARD BITS AND PIECES OF WHAT MIGHT BE ANNOUNCED, NOTHING WE CAN REPORT ON THE RECORD YET BUT THERE WILL BE SOME BIG WATER STUFF.

THERE WILL BE BIG EDUCATION STUFF, WHETHER MORE FUNDING OR HE COMES UP WITH I MEAN THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM HAS BEEN THE FISCAL CLIFF THAT IS NOT JUST THE SPENDING CAP BUT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE GOVERNOR'S PROPOSITION ONE, TWO, THREE, WHAT HAPPENS IN 2025 WHEN THAT ENDS?

THAT'S AN $800 MILLION A YEAR HIT TO SCHOOLS THAT IF NOT REPLACED, IF THE GOVERNOR DOESN'T REPLACE I DID NOW, IT'S GOING TO BE ON HIS SUCCESSOR AND A BAD LEGACY FOR HIM.

MAYBE HE WANTS TO DO THAT.

I'M SPECULATING, BUT IT'S POSSIBLE.

>> IS ANYTHING IN THE SPEECH THAT WOULD SUGGEST LAWMAKERS SAYING WAIT A MINUTE, NOT SO FAST?

>> WELL, DEPENDING ON WHERE HE GOES WITH WATER, THERE'S A CERTAIN CONTINGENT OF LAWMAKERS THAT DON'T WANT TO DO A WHOLE LOT TO LIKE EXPAND HAVING ACTIVE MANAGEMENT AREAS SO THAT YOU HAVE TO ASSURE A WATER SUPPLY BEFORE YOU DO DEVELOPMENT, SO THERE MIGHT BE PUSHBACK ON THAT.

I LOOK FOR HIM TO DO SOME MORE THINGS OPT ECONOMIC FRONT.

HE'S ALWAYS LIKED THE DISRUPTIVE TECHNOLOGIES THAT WE'VE SEEN, SOME OF WHICH HAVE DRAWN CRITICISM, SEE WHAT HE CAN, YOU KNOW, PULL OUT OF HIS HAT ON THAT ONE.

>> I FIND THIS, BECAUSE EVERYTHING YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU THOUGHT HE MIGHT ADDRESS WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD SOUND PRETTY GOOD TO A NATIONAL AUDIENCE.

THAT'S WHY I ASK, WILL HE -- IS THIS MORE THAN JUST AN ARIZONA STATE OF THE STATE ADDRESS?

>> I DEFINITELY ANY IT IS.

I THINK EVERYTHING HE DOES NOW JUST BY DEFINITION, AND NOT JUST HIM, SOME OF THE OTHERS, AS WELL, IS GEARED TOWARD A NATIONAL AUDIENCE.

REMEMBER HE'S THE CHAIRMAN OF THE REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR'S ASSOCIATION AND IT IS TO HIS BENEFIT TO REMIND PEOPLE AND REMIND PEOPLE AND REMIND PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON AT THE BORDER.

I DON'T THINK HE'S GOING TO MISS THAT OPPORTUNITY TO DO SO.

ON WATER, I'M WONDER I CAN IF HE DOES DO SOMETHING BIG, GOOD FOR HIM BUT WHERE HAS HE BEEN THIS LAST SEVEN YEARS?

THIS PROBLEM IS NOT A NEW ONE.

THE PROBLEMS WE'RE FACING HAVE BEEN KNOWN FOR A LONG, LONG TIME, BUT BETTER LATE THAN NEVER, SO I HOPE HE DOES.

>> THE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE LEGISLATURE, DO YOU EXPECT MUCH IN THE WAY OF VETOES, OF HIDDEN MESSAGES SAYING DON'T SEND THIS TO ME?

>> THERE IS ALWAYS HIDDEN MESSAGES SAYING DON'T SEND THIS TO ME.

BILLS QUIETLY GET THROWING INTO TOP DRAWERS OF SPEAKERS AND SENATE PRESIDENT'S DESKS QUITE OFTEN DURING THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

THE GOVERNOR KNOWS HOW TO USE HIS POWER AND HE DOES NOT NECESSARILY LIKE TO VETO STUFF THAT HE CAN FIGURE OUT A WAY TO KEEP IT FROM COMING TO HIS DESK.

>> OH, YEAH, I MEAN, SOLIDARITY WITH YOUR PARTY.

ONE THING WE HAVEN'T TOUCHED ON, THOUGH, IS ELECTION RELATED REFORMS.

WE STILL HAVE AN AUDIT GOING ON, WE HAVE THE REPORT FROM THE NINJAS.

I WILL BE CURIOUS TO SEE WHAT, IF ANYTHING, THE GOVERNOR PROPOSES ON THAT FRONT IN TERMS OF HOW IT MIGHT AFFECT OUR VOTING SYSTEM.

>> WE'RE GOING TO GET TO THE NINJAS IN A SECOND.

LET'S GET TO THE COUNTY, THE SUPREME COURT'S OPINION, WE FINALLY GOT THE FULL OPINION HERE AND IT WAS BASICALLY EVERYTHING YOU'RE DOING, STOP DOING THIS, BECAUSE IT'S JOIN CONSTITUTIONAL, UNANIMOUS OPINION HERE.

HOW DOES THAT CHANGE?

YOU TALKED ABOUT IT A LITTLE BIT.

GIVE US MORE DETAIL AS HOW THAT CHANGES THINGS DOWN THERE.

>> IT CHANGES THE WAY THE BUDGET IS DONE IN A HUGE WAY, AND THE HOUSE SPEAKER MENTIONED TODAY, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE MORE COMMITTEE HEARINGS ON APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEES, WORK THE BUDGET NOW.

DECADES AGO, WHEN I FIRST CAME DOWN HERE 10 YEARS AGO, PEOPLE TALKED ABOUT THE GOOD OLD DAYS, WHEN THEY PUT THE BUDGET TOGETHER DOWN AT THIS APPROPRIATIONS LEVEL COMMITTEE.

I DID A COUPLE OF STORIES ON THAT 10-15 YEARS AGO ON THIS OLD PROCESS, RIGHT?

AND THEY MAY HAVE TO BRING SOME OF THAT BACK, BECAUSE THE WAY THAT IT'S BEEN DONE FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS IS JUST NOT GOING TO WORK ANYMORE.

IT WAS DONE IN BACK ROOMS.

IT WAS DONE WITH A SPREADSHEET AND THE SPEAKER SAYING OK, HOW DO I GET THIS LAWMAKER ONBOARD, I'M GOING TO GIVE HIM THIS, THAT, THAT'S NO LONGER GOING TO FLY BECAUSE THE LEGISLATURE, THE STATE SUPREME COURT WHICH GAVE US ALL A GREAT HISTORY LESSON, REACHING BACK TO MARBERRY VERSUS MADSON WHICH NOBODY HAS HEARD ABOUT EXCEPT LAWMAKERS AND REPORTERS.

ABSOLUTE NO, THE LEGISLATURE TRIED TO ARGUE TO THE STATE SUPREME COURT THAT IT DIDN'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO TELL THEM.

>> YES, IT'S A BUDGET BILL.

>> YEAH, NOT SO MUCH.

IT'S NOT A BUDGET BILL IF IT LOG ROLLS, IF IT'S NOT A PART OF THE BUDGET IF IT'S PART OF TWISTING ARMS AND PUTTING STUFF THAT'S UNRELATED INTO THE BUDGET, IT'S NO LONGER GOING TO FLY.

>> GOODBYE PARTISAN SHIP REAR ITS HEAD BECAUSE OF THIS?

>> I THINK THAT'S A POSSIBILITY.

I REALIZE I'M BEING AN OPTIMIST BUT WITH A LEGISLATURE THAT HAS THE BARE MINIMUM NUMBER OF SENATORS AND HOUSE MEMBERS, ALL IT TAKES IS FOR ONE REPUBLICANS TO NOPE, NOT GOING TO DO IT AND I SEE SEVERAL CANDIDATES FOR THAT, BOTH PEOPLE WHO JUST THAT'S IN THEIR DNA TO DO THAT AND OTHERS WHO ARE NOT RUNNING FOR REELECTION AND CAN SAY I DON'T NEED TO DO THIS.

I MEAN, WE'LL SEE.

WE SAW LAST SESSION, YOU HAD SENATOR PAUL BOYER AND RICH DAVID COOK, BOTH REPUBLICANS, WHO SORT OF DUG IN THEIR HEELS AND SAID I'M NOT GOING TO GO FOR THIS BUDGET UNTIL WE GET OTHER CONCESSIONS WHICH NOW YOU CAN'T REALLY DO, BUT YOU CAN TALK ABOUT IT.

THERE'S A MESSAGE FROM THE SUPREME COURT OPINION IS LIKE LOOK, WHEN YOU'RE DOING BUDGET BILLS, PUT MONEY IN THEM.

POLICY BILLS, DO SEPARATE BILLS ON THAT.

IT'S REALLY NOT THAT HARD OF A CONCEPT, BUT PRACTICING IT MIGHT BE VERY, VERY DIFFICULT.

THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF HAND WRINGING LIKE THIS COULD REALLY DRAG OUT WORK ON THE BUDGET.

>> DIFFERENT SET OF SKILLS NEEDED FOR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

LORI, THE COUNTY HAD, LET'S HOPE, IT'S THE FINAL WORD.

>> THERE'S NO FINAL WORD, EVER.

NO.

>> POINT BY POINT REBUTTAL TO THE CYBER NINJA'S AUDIT.

74, 75 CLAIMS.

>> THE COUNTY SPENT THREE MONTHS DELVING INTO THE WEEDS OF THIS CYBER NINJA'S AUDIT REPORT THAT CAME OUT IN SEPTEMBER AND THIS WEEK THEY RELEASED THE 93 PAGE REPORT AND HAD A FIVE OR SIX MARATHON HEARING OPT THING, GETTING INTO GREAT MIND NUMBING ONE WOULD SAY DETAIL ON HOW ELECTIONS WORK AND WHY THESE PROCESSES WERE NOT BAD.

THE 75 CLAIMS THAT THE NINJAS SAID THERE WAS ANOMALIES HERE OR NEED EXPLAINING, THE COUNTY'S NOW EXPLAINED IT.

THEY SAID THAT THE 74 OF THE 75 WERE THE RESULT OF THE NINJA'S SIMPLY NOT UNDERSTANDING HOW ELECTIONS WORK, HOW ELECTION LAW WORKS OR JUST OUTRIGHT FABRICATING.

>> MISLEADING OR DEMONSTRABLY FALSE.

>> THEY CAME UP WITH ONE PLACE THE NINJA'S POINTED OUT A PROBLEM OF THE 2.1 MILLION VOTES CAST, THERE WERE 37 VOTES THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN POTENTIALLY FRAUD, INVOLVED IN FRAUD.

I THINK MANY OF THOSE MIGHT BE SPOUSES PERHAPS SENDING IN THEIR DEAD SPOUSE'S EARLY BALLOTS.

THEY GOT THE EARLY BALLOT'S AND THEN DIED, MAYBE THEY SENT THEM IN, SO THAT WOULD BE FRAUDULENT.

37% OF CASES OF THAT THING AND DOUBLE COUNTED, SOME TEMPORARY COUNTY ELECTIONS WORKER ACCIDENTALLY PUT ONE SHEET THROUGH TWICE.

OF THOSE 2.1 MILLION VOTES, THEY DID FIND 87 WHICH WERE A PROBLEM WHICH I THINK WOULD BE FOUR 1,000th OF A PERCENT.

>> IT'S A PRETTY STINGING INDICTMENT AND YET PRESIDENT PHAM SAID CONGRATULATIONS TO THE COUNTY, YOU'VE NOW JOINED US.

>> YOU TOLD US THERE WERE PROBLEMS WITH THIS ELECTION, YOU FOUND PROBLEMS OF THE ELECTION.

THEY DID NOT FIND THE GIANT PROBLEMS THAT THE CYBER NINJAS SAID THEY HAD, THE GIANT PROBLEMS THAT THE SENATE PRESIDENT SAID THEY HAD.

INSTEAD THEY FOUND WHAT ALL OF US WHO COVER ELECTIONS AND ASSOCIATED PRESS THAT DONE VOLUMINOUS DIGGING INTO THIS FRAUD CLAIM OVER THE PAST YEAR.

WE LOOKED AT ALL THE BATTLEGROUND STATES FOUND FEWER THAN 500 CASES OF VOTER FRAUD IN THE SIX STATES, THAT'S ME AND FIVE OF MY COLLEAGUES IN OTHER STATES GOING OVER TO COUNTY AND EVERY ELECTIONS DEPARTMENT IN EVERY STATE, AND THERE'S JUST A TINY AMOUNT OF THIS.

IT'S SOMEBODY VOTING TWICE, GETTING AN EARLY BALLOT AND SHOWING UP AND LYING AND GETTING A SECOND BALLOT OR SOMEONE SENDING IN THEIR DEAD SPOUSE'S BALLOT.

IT'S SO MINISCULE IT DOES NOT HAVE ANY IMPACT ON THE ELECTION AND THAT'S WHAT THEY FOUND.

>> DID I NOT READ THAT ACTUALLY THE NUMBER OF POTENTIAL PROBLEMS IN 2020, THERE WAS FEWER OF THOSE THAN THERE WAS IN 2016.

>> YEAH.

YOU DID.

UNDER EXAMINATION.

>> AND AGAIN, THE SENATE PRESIDENT DID NOT SEEM TO ADDRESS THAT EITHER.

>> OBVIOUSLY TRYING TO FIND A SILVER LINING IN ALL OF THIS, YOU KNOW, THE SENATE PRESIDENT WENT WAY OUT ON A LIMB WITH THIS AUDIT, SHE'S WED TO IT.

IT'S GOING TO BE PART OF HER LEGACY.

>> ALL RIGHT, SO LET'S MOVE ON NOW TO THE CYBER NINJAS AND THE CYBER NINJA STORY HELD IN CONTEMPT.

DO THE CYBER NINJA'S EVEN EXIST?

>> THEY ARE NO MORE.

>> THEY DISSOLVED IN THIS GRAND DISTRESS.

>> DID YOU SAY ABSOLVED?

>> DISSOLVED.

>> NOW IT'S WELL, WE DON'T EXIST ANYMORE BECAUSE WEE TIRED OUR EMPLOYEES INCLUDING THE CEO, SO IT'S JUST THIS EMPTY SHELL OF A NIP.

>> SUIT.

THE JUDGE, JUDGE HANNA WAS WISE TO THAT AND SAID YOU KNOW, I'M NOT GOING TO ALLOW TO YOU GET AWAY WITH THIS.

IF YOU THINK YOU'RE JUST AN EMPTY SHELL, THAT'S FINE BUT I'M GOING TO COME AFTER YOU INDIVIDUALLY.

HE HAS THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC ASKED FOR I THINK A FINE OF A THOUSAND DOLLARS A DAY LODGED AGAINST THE NINJAS FOR EVERY DAY THEY REFUSED TO COMPLY WITH THE PUBLIC RECORDS LAW.

THE JUDGE SAID THAT'S NOT ANYWHERE NEAR GOOD AND SLAPPED THEM WITH A $50,000 A DAY.

NINJAS ARE STILL OWED $100,000 FROM THE STATE SENATE FOR THEIR SERVICES.

THEY'VE MADE A BIG ISSUE OUCH THAT.

PERHAPS THAT $100,000 CAN GO TOWARDS.

THAT WOULD BE TWO DAYS.

>> TWO DAYS, YEAH.

>> OR MAYBE THEY CAN JUST SINCE WE'RE CLOSED, HERE'S ALL OF OUR SERVERS, WE'RE GOING TO DECLARE BANKRUPTCY, HERE'S OUR ASSETS, WHICH ARE OUR SERVERS AND DOCUMENTS.

>> DIDN'T AT ONE POINT, ATTORNEY FOR CYBER NINJA'S BASICALLY TELL THE JUDGE I'M NOT GETTING PAID HERE.

THE JUDGE BASICALLY SAID HERE'S AN EASY WAY TO CUT COSTS, DO WHAT YOU'RE TOLD.

>> EXACTLY.

THE LAWYER FOR THE CYBER NINJA'S TWO JUDGES NOW, I'M NOT GETTING PAID, PLEASE LET ME QUIT.

NO, WE'RE NOT GOING TO LET YOU QUICK.

HERE'S A SIMPLE WAY TO DO IT, TURN OVER THE DOCUMENTS, THE RULINGS ARE THERE, TURN OVER THE RECORDS TO THE SENATE, THEY'LL REDACT THEM AND GIVE THEM TO THE REPUBLIC AND AMERICAN OVERSIGHT, THE LIBERAL OVERSIGHT GROUP AND THEN YOU'RE DONE, THERE'S VERY LITTLE WORK TO BE DONE, JUST TURN THE RECORDS OVER.

>> DOES ANY OF THIS CHANGE ANY MINDS IN ANY WAY?

>> NOT EVEN ONE.

DURING THE HEARING ON I THINK IT WAS WEDNESDAY, WAS IT THE WEDNESDAY HEARING?

EVEN AS BEFORE YOU EVEN HAD TIME TO READ THE EXECUTIVE SUMMARY OF THE REPORT, STATE REPUBLICAN PARTY CHAIRWOMAN KELLY WARD WAS ALREADY TWEETING OUT DERISIVE COMMENTS BIT AND BASICALLY REPEATING THE LIES THAT THIS ELECTION HAD BEEN STOLEN, AND THE NEXT DAY ON JANUARY 6, NO LESS, THE DAY WHEN WE SHOULD ALL BE REFLECTING ON DEMOCRACY, ONE WOULD HOPE, HAD SECRETARY OF STATE CANDIDATE AND REPRESENTATIVE MARCH FIN CHUM TWEETING OUT AGAIN THE LIE THAT TENS OF THOUSANDS OF VOTES WERE FRAUDULENT.

THERE IS JUST NO THERE THERE.

>> ELECTION REFORM, WHAT ARE WE LIKELY TO SEE FROM LAWMAKERS THIS GO AROUND AND HOWEVER WILL IT GO AND HOWEVER WITH HIM THE GOVERNOR ALLOW THIS TO GO?

>> WELL, THAT'S THE QUESTION, WHETHER THE GOVERNOR WILL ACT AS THE GOVERNOR ON SOME OF THESE BILLS THAT SEEM TO BE MAYBE RATHER EXTREME BUT WE'VE SEEN THE BILLS, A BILL TO OUTLAW DRIVE THROUGH VOTING, WHICH WAS INSTITUTED DURING THE PANDEMIC.

THERE WOULD BE AN EXCEPTION FOR DISABLED PEOPLE, OUTLAW THE USE OF DROP BOXES EXCEPT IF THEY'RE INSIDE A COUNTY BUILDING.

SHE'S GOT A BILL TO ESTABLISH AN OFFICE AT THE GOVERNOR'S LEVEL TO DEAL WITH ELECTION FRAUD, WHICH IS INTERESTING, BECAUSE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL DOES THAT ALREADY.

>> SECRETARY OF STATE.

>> WE'VE GOT A BILL THAT WOULD LOOK AT SPECIAL BALLOT PAPER WITH PROVISIONS TO MAKE IT SECURE SO SOMEBODY CAN'T I GUESS STEAL MY BALLOT AND SUBSTITUTE IT FOR ONE PRINTED ON BAMBOO FIBERS FROM CHINA.

>> AGAIN, WE SEE THE NUMBERS.

MARICOPA COUNTY'S COME OUT POINT BY POINT EXHAUSTED, HOW MANY TIMES HAVE THEY DONE THIS?

>> AT WHAT POINT, SILLY QUESTION.

AT WHAT POINT DO LAWMAKERS BASICALLY LET'S MOVE ON?

>> THEY DON'T, AS LONG AS THE FORMER PRESIDENT KEEPS PUSHING THE POINT.

THEIR BOUGHT IN, ALL IN ON THIS, THEY BELIEVE MAJOR CHANGES ARE NECESSARY.

THEY WON'T BELIEVE THAT THERE WAS NO FRAUD.

THEY WILL PUSH BIG OVERHAULS.

THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT ARE LOGICAL THAT WILL GET THROUGH.

IT TAKES A TINY PERCENTAGE FOR INSTANCE TO GET A RECOUNT IN ARIZONA.

YOU'D HAVE TO BE WITHIN 100 VOTES.

THAT WILL GO UP TO A FEW THOUSAND OR A HALF A PERCENT.

>> BUT KEEP GOING UP THE LADDER, CALLS FOR A RECOUNT.

HOW DOES THE RECOUNT THEN CHANGE, PEOPLE AREN'T HAPPY WITH THE RECOUNT NOW.

>> I DON'T KNOW.

I THINK THE AUDITS ARE HERE TO STAY FOR A WHILE AT LEAST, WHICHEVER SIDE WINS, THE OTHER SIDE IS GOING TO CRY CHEAT.

THAT'S JUST THE WAY IT IS.

IF THERE WERE ANY LEGISLATURES WORRIED ABOUT THEIR REELECTION PROSPECTS OR PROSPECTS OF REPUBLICANS HOLDING ON TO THE LEGISLATURE FOR A WHILE, THESE FEARS HAVE BEEN ASSUAGED BY THE REDISTRICTING COMMITTEE COMING UP WITH A LEGISLATIVE MAPS THAT ARE VERY FAVORABLE TO REPUBLICANS, SO FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE, THEY'RE GOING TO BE IN CHARGE.

THEY DON'T HAVE TO REALLY WORRY ABOUT ANSWERING TO THE LARGER ELECTORATE.

>> MAKE SENSE TO YOU?

>> WELL, WE'LL SEE.

I DO THINK A FAIR AMOUNT OF THESE ELECTORAL RELATED -- ELECTION RELATE BILLS WILL GET QUITE FAR ALONG IN THE PROS.

THERE IS GOING TO BE DESPITE BELIEVING YOU MIGHT MAINTAIN A GOP MAJORITY IN THE LEGISLATURE AFTER THIS FALL'S ELECTIONS, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO SINCERELY BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE PROBLEMS THAT NEED TO BE FIXED AND ONE OF THE IDEAS THAT ACTUALLY MARK FIN CHUM AND ADRIAN FONTES, SECRETARY OF STATE CANDIDATES FROM DIFFERENT PARTIES BOTH AGREE PUTTING BALLOT IMAGES ON LINE AFTER EVERYTHING'S BEEN COUNTED, SO YOU CAN GO AND SEE YOUR BALLOT.

>> YOU COULDN'T NEVER SEE YOUR BALLOT, BECAUSE THE BALLOT DOES NOT HAVE OUR NAME ON IT.

>> THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE CODING, CAN WE GET A SPECIAL PASSWORD.

>> I WANT TO START ON THE NOTE WHERE FIN CHUM AND FONTES ARE ON THE SAME PAGE.

I THINK THAT'S A WONDERFUL WAY TO STOP THE CONVERSATION.

>> HAPPY NEW YEAR.

>> THANK YOU ALL FOR JOINING US ON THE JOURNALISTS ROUND TAIL.

COMING UP IN THE NEXT HALF HOUR, ON CRONKITE NEWS, A LOOK AT A GARDEN THAT PROVIDES INDIGENOUS PEOPLE WITH MORE THAN JUST FRESH FOOD.

>>> A DISCUSSION ON THE ISSUE OF WHITE WOMEN AND PRIVILEGE.