>> Coming up on Arizona PBS, we'll recap the biggest stories, including Kyrsten Sinema's impact on failing voting rights legislation and how one college student is helping homelessness.

>> This hour of local news by contributions from the friends of PBS.

>> Good evening and welcome to Arizona horizon.

And it's Friday and that means it's time for another edition of the journalist's roundtable and we have Steve goldstein and howie Fisher and thank you for joining us and Howie and we'll start with Kyrsten Sinema and talk to us about this.

>> This is critical because of the fact that on one hand, she wants to be able to say, look, I support some of the election bills, you know, the John Lewis bill and everything else, knowing full well it can't get a vote unless they can break the filibuster and get 60 and the republicans won't go along.

She wants it both ways.

She claims, and there is some merit it protects the rights of the minority, but where is the line and should everything require 60 votes?

I leave the in fact, that republicans who are saying it is sacrosanct.

>> This brings us to governor Ducey's reaction and how much of his legislation is bipartisan.

>> Sure, not a lot of the stuff we ended up talking about here because this gets attention or controversial, but yes, it did get praise yesterday and it underscores that all of the folks praising her have an R next to their name.

If you're a Democrat, you're probably pretty upset about this and this has become a do-or-die issue because of this extremely narrow majority the Democrats have the U.S. senate.

Democratted are upset with Kyrsten Sinema with a lot of the position and trying to work with republicans a lot and this is pushing things over the top.

>> Emily's list sounds like they said thanks but no thanks.

>> This is interesting, because if we look at the republican's side, the club for growth, it pulled out and what difference does it make?

A little bit financially, but a lot about the optics and a long-time ally and some groups are asking Kyrsten Sinema to return some of the money they gave in the campaign.

>> The Democrats hadn't been pushing this if they weren't trying to suppress minority voting, their supporters and this become a big issue and nice of the governor to say, oh, look, she's helping us.

But all it's doing is saying republican legislators, you're tree to do what you want.

>> Whether this is a sincere argument or not, she's right about one thing, we have seen swings and we always do, as far as which party is controlling Congress.

She's protecting the minority, which a lot of people will be next year.

>> Does she have a point, you can't get passed the 60 vote, it's proof it doesn't have enough bipartisan support in terms of a nation-wide endeavor?

>> How many having bipartisan support?

They control the White House, the house, the senate and then, you know, the voters want the policies that policy represents.

The next time the republicans control the White House and both chambers of Congress, they'll breathe a sigh of relief the filibuster is still there and for now, their focus is strictly on their issues, especially this voting right's bill.

>> That brings back to my point about the state.

If a 60% majority is so great, let put in the same rule for the state senate here.

>> That won't happen, Howie.

>> That's the point.

>> I know it's the point, but you're getting over to election reform in general, and let's get to that right now, because there are dozens, dozens of bills floating around right now to address what?

I thought Arizona was lauded for having a solid election system.

>> Even the governor, when he certified the election that some of the folks on the far right was stolen, we can nibble on the edges, but some is minor.

For example, should we make election day a state holiday to make sure people can get away from work?

Then there's early ballots.

Arizona, for over a decade, you would have an early ballot.

Now you want an early ballot, you get an early ballot.

They passed legislation last year to say if you don't use it for a couple of cycles, week take it away.

Now, what do you have to provide?

Now it's an early thumbprint or Social Security, last four numbers or some people want to get rid of the early ballot entirely and yet, 90% in the last ballot brought up early ballot.

>> Republicans are mind these measures and this could hurt republican-based areas like sun city and other focal points for the republican party.

>> No question, Ted, but coming down to the so-called audit, the fraud that some might call it where there is hair on fire devotion to Donald Trump.

That's where a lot of these come from, not all of them, certainly.

We've some some in the past, let's call out of the voter roles and that does not have any liberal support, but it has moderate support on those, as well.

Basically, let's tear up the system because we can't have bipartisan of any support.

>> Jeremy, the audit over the summer and how much is that leading the legislation and it sounds like horse pulling cart.

>> You have counter fraud measures based on this fantastic measure there was secret water marks or Bamboo fibers or secret north Korean ballots which is absurd.

You have bills to ban machines from counting ballots and A, this would take forever and B, if you take to anyone involved in election, it's much less accurate, especially considering accusations about the machines, the dominion voting machines which have no basis in reality.

But as Steve said, not driving all of it and of it has been discredited anyway.

>> There are things that fall in the middle.

As Jeremy points out, counting 2.7 million by hand, and wait, I have to start over again.

For example, Arizona law requires some random hand counts of certain precincts and you can increase the number there and say, well, see, this proves if you extrapolate this out, it was accurate.

There are issues you can do and the ballot security is an interesting question and some of this, you run out of paper and you go to staples and get paper and that raises interesting questions and do we need water marks, I don't know.

>> There are things more, think, moderate and they will have support.

You have, I think, I believe the governor will be supporting the proposal to loosening the standarding for when a mandatory recap would happen and a slim margin and now expand to, I think, a half percentage point which would have triggered a recount effort presidential race out here.

And a lot of this will run into a major roadblock of one or two senators, Paul Boyer and to running for secretary of state.

>> How much of this will get passed the leadership in the house of senate?

If it does get passed leadership, how much will the governor say, this is a swell idea, but it's based on cyberninjas?

>> I would say a small percentage gets through, gets passed, but if it does, I won't be surprised if the governor doesn't sign a lot.

>> You're citing -- it was house speaker be rusty bauers, saying we won't do that.

>> There are bills, and, quote, some are out there.

I want to get back to the cyberninjas, and you would think anything involving the state senate and elections would be public information, but you wouldn't be thinking cyberninjas.

>> This goes back to Emails, contracts that generally speaks anything done by a public body is a public record and anything done on behalf of the public body for what the public body was doing cyberninjas is public records and the public has been fighting -- cyberninjas didn't want to turn over stuff and we may end with a contempt over Doug Logan.

What happened today, the court of appeals said, yes, there are things called legislative privilege, but that has to do with when you do something with it intent of the crafting legislation.

This was not meant to craft legislation.

Karen Fann said this is to reassure folks we have the proper count.

And now they're claiming, oh, this is a part of legislative privilege and judge brown who wrote the opinion for the three-judge panel, says, uh-uh.

>> An out saying to hand it to superior court, but that court judge looked to make sure that nothing that needs to be left confidential is left out.

>> Cyberninjas goes on and on and let us talk about controversial bills launching and one involving guns on college campuses and the other involves banning transgender athletes from sports.

>> But I remember when governor Brewer was in charge of things after SB7 and this -- we're coming back again and one of the interesting thing and Howie has the quote memorized.

There's a theory of some on the right that a good guy with a gun stops a bad guy with a gun.

It was interesting to hear the testimony of ASU's police's chief and mature decisions with drinking or drugs or maybe they're having mental health and guns too close to where they are.

>> The universities and colleges want no part.

>> They ban these things for a reason and this would take away that ability to make that decision, any student with a carry permit, they would be required to allow them to carry and not enthusiastic about that idea.

>> To be fair, the universities were against things like over-the-counter pepper spray, batons, the kind of Tasers you hold up against someone and oh, my God, the world will come to an end.

Well, you're right, maybe students have a right to defend themselves and put it in.

So universities have come a long way and they do recognize that you have 90 some officers for four ASU campuses and the blue lights are nice and you can stand there and it won't help you.

The question becomes, what is the right for someone to defend themselves, particularly in urban campuses.

>> People with concealed carry permits.

>> Some of the classes are later at night.

Interesting when it comes to an issue like this, a liability issue for the universities and the colleges.

I mean, if there is some accidental shooting or not so accidental shooting and where does that leave them as far as lawsuits.

>> Transgender bill for female sports only, true.

>> You have boy sports, girl sports and co-Ed sports.

>> You should only participate in the sex of your birth, but the law that was passed out of judiciary committee says that somebody born male may not participate in female sports and it doesn't matter what state you are in transitioning or anything else.

Now what's fascinating the Arizona class scholatic has rules and they don't have the upper body of someone like me.

Right!

It's a solution in terms of a problem where there isn't that sort of thing.

There's been instances in Connecticut where some men entered some female swimming competitions and took all of the medals and they say we'll preserve women sports by ensuring depending on, you know, the plumbing that you're born with determines how you participate.

>> Jeremy, another controversial bill is HB21-12, you can't teach lessons regarding racism and privilege as long -- I don't know, can you explain there one to me?

[ Laughter ] >> This is critical race theory and I don't think anyone is talking about the same thing, republicans and Democrats when they're talking about this.

This is teaching in the public schools where blame is assigned to people of a certain race or ethnic grews or gender.

This is an umbrella term and Democrats are saying this would have teachers teaching is slavery and people talking over each other.

>> This is judging others by race, ethnicity and sex would be unacceptable.

>> This is going to put teachers, potentially, in a tough position and one of the concerns, what if someone is offended?

I think it was boulding, what if a student asked a question and it turns into a race issue and is that student going to be uncomfortable and offended?

>> That's the key.

If you're teaching something to say you should feel bad about what happened because of your race, your gender, ethnicity and how do you determine of what people should feel?

There are folks saying there is no racism.

We elected a black president.

We, the fact is, this isn't history.

Racism exists.

We had a sheriff that was stopping people for the crime of driving while brown and important to keep track, this is not just history.

>> This is one of the culture war issues.

We've see it across the issue and I think this is an Alek issue and let's try it and see where it goes.

No, this is a legitimate issue and people on the left saying, no, this is to divide us over race.

Jeremy, districts fine $5,000 and some folks, I think -- I know on the democratic side, they're saying this is a bit rough for teachers who still, as we've talked about here, here not quite sure what this is all about.

>> As mentioned, putting teachers in a difficult position about, you know, precise wording.

You can't have issues like blanket blame for people of a certain race or ethnic group and what if you say, you know, southers pass segregation laws.

Can you word it that way?

>> You can't say folks are inherently racist.

Campaign finance reports, they are out and Jeremy, we'll start with you on this one.

Steve Gaynor doing well.

>> He has the most money because he has one big donor, himself, giving his campaign five million dollars and has the most cash on hand and not spending the most money.

Karen Taylor raised more than half of that from hers and everyone expects her to spend 20, 25, 30 millions of her own money and on air, spending two million on TV ads and Steve Gaynor on cable ads and Carrie lake in the republican primary raising 1.5 million and spend most it and lighting most of this on fire.

>> What's the difference when they try to get one hundred bucks and says, I like you, I'll give you $1.8 million?

Is there a dynamic there?

[ Laughter ] >> I don't know, we'll look into that.

If you stopped a bunch on the streets and said Steve Gaynor and Karen Taylor-robson, who?

>> She's a trump supporter, which may or may not get her that.

>> She says she's a true trump supporter.

>> But, you've got a question of, what is she known here, on the board of regents.

There are no more than 5% of viewers saying who is on the board of regents and that's an issue.

So you have to build that name I.D.

Around charges, she was running a radio ad saying plenty of time to talk issues and I'm here to introduce myself.

When you have everybody else spinning each other, Matt salmon and Carrie lake calling each other radicals, that maybe help.

>> Doesn't Carrie lake have that name recognition, that advanced start?

She doesn't have to spend the money for people to know who she is.

They know, or they think they do.

She was broadcasting into their television.

>> She has the base, grass roots and when you have the supports like that, you don't need as much.

Robson, unknown, and needs to spend that money and lake doesn't because she has that support.

You need some money and how much of an impact and get their support and will they cut into this lead that lake has built up when she didn't have to?

>> Maybe us is this being the insider, but Steve Gaynor was the insider for secretary of state and maybe this is too inside, but Karen's main name is Kenasik and her dad was on the corporation commission and her current husband is the one with all of the money.

>> It's a family name as well in the building community.

>> Which may or may not play well.

>> It depends.

Jeremy, redistricting commission, my goodness, you're doing just heavenly work there.

You're keeping us all from having to sit through corporation commissions -- I'm sorry, redistricting commission meetings.

It's over.

>> All over but the lawsuits and having budget issues and certainly going to be some lawsuits from the Democrats and have to come back to address that and for the real work, today was the last day and finishing up on Tuesday, giving final certification to the secretary of state, making it nice and official.

The independent chair had some emergency medical issues to deal with and got halfway through and finishing up today.

It was most notable is what was said.

There was a festivus area accusing one of the Democrats of taking outside direction from national Democrats and learner accuse the same with the republicans, the change that helped certain republican lawmakers of key moments.

There was an interesting moment and said, you know, newburg said, I saw you on your phone with the Democrats.

And learner said, let's talk about the seventh and the eighth and these two were talking with state and national republicans and you were conferring with the director.

Let's be honest, we were all talking with folks on the inside.

I didn't take direction from them and let's be honest, we were talking with people on the outside who wanted us to do things.

>> When the rubber came to meet the road or lines were drawn and the crayons were starting to dry, everybody realized want happened here?

We'll change the lines here to make sure Wendy Rogers gets a district full of republicans as opposed to Democrats and native Americans.

We had to keep another candidate in a district where she wanted to be with republicans and the buckeye versus a moderate district.

All of a sudden, there were real implications and we could go from a 5-4 delegation to 6-3 delegation.

>> That means the process is working.

>> We know how happy or unhappy people are.

In Miss Learner's case, she was unhappy.

>> It's down the stretch, yeah.

>> The republicans are happy more than Democrats.

Republicans behind the scenes aren't super happy.

They won more than the Democrats, no question.

And I voted for the congressional map and now I regret it and setting the stage for a lawsuit, but I think everyone was a little unhappy and newburg is taking pride as the independent.

>> Exactly.

You have one minute, one minute to explain governor Ducey filing a lawsuit against the Federal Government.

>> The state got $173 million from the feds under some Covid relief and he's using 163 million for aid to certain schools and only the schools that don't have mask mandates and promise to stay open and don't do remote learning.

The other ten million is for $7,000 scholarships that parents can use to send their children to private parochial schools.

The treasury department exceeded its authority and they should go and leave me alone and let me spend the money.

>> You did it in one minute.

[ Laughter ] >> Congratulations.

And that is it for now and thank you for joining us on Arizona horizon and you have a great weekend!

[ ♪♪ ] Coming up on Arizona PBS meet an artist gaining fame in the world of country music and on break it down, the argument over reparations to black Americans.