♪ >> COMING UP IN THE NEXT HOUR OF LOCAL NEWS ON ARIZONA PBS, ON "ARIZONA HORIZON," WE'LL HEAR FROM DIPLOMATS AND STRATEGISTS ON THE RUSSIAN MILITARY INVASION OF UKRAINE.

>>> AND ON CRONKITE NEWS, MEMBERS OF ARIZONA'S CONGRESSIONAL DELEGATION ALONG WITH UKRAINIAN EX-PATS IN THE STATE REACT TO THE RUSSIAN MILITARY ASSAULT.

ALL AHEAD IN THE NEXT HOUR OF ARIZONA PBS.

ANNOUNCER: THIS HOUR OF LOCAL NEWS IS MADE POSSIBLE BY CONTRIBUTIONS FROM THE FRIENDS OF PBS, MEMBERS OF YOUR PBS STATION.

THANK YOU.

TED: GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

RUSSIA LAUNCHED AN ATTACK ON UKRAINE TODAY.

IT WAS THE BIGGEST MILITARY ATTACK ON A EUROPEAN STATE SINCE WORLD WAR II.

RUSSIAN FORCES MOUNTED ASSAULTS BY LAND, SEA AND AIR, REPORTS OF RESIDENTS FLEEING KYIV, THE CAPITAL OF UKRAINE, AS RUSSIAN FORCES ATTEMPTED TO DISMANTLE THE UKRAINIAN GOVERNMENT, AND THERE ARE REPORTS RUSSIANS CAPTURED THE CHERNOBYL NUCLEAR SITE IN AN APPARENT MOVE TO WARN NATO NOT TO INTERFERE MILITARILY.

PRESIDENT BIDEN IMPOSED SANCTIONS AIMED AT RUSSIAN ELITES ALONG WITH FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS AND TECHNOLOGY EXPORTS.

PRESIDENT SAYING THAT, QUOTE, VLADIMIR PUTIN CHOSE THIS WAR AND HE AND HIS COUNTRY WILL BEAR THE CONSEQUENCES.

>> TODAY, I'M AUTHORIZING ADDITIONAL STRONG SANCTIONS AND NEW LIMITATIONS ON WHAT CAN BE EXPORTED TO RUSSIA.

THIS IS GOING TO IMPOSE SEVERE COSTS ON THE RUSSIAN ECONOMY BOTH IMMEDIATELY AND OVER TIME.

WE HAVE PURPOSELY DESIGNED THESE SANCTIONS TO MAXIMIZE THE LONG-TERM IMPACT ON RUSSIA AND MINIMIZE THE IMPACT ON THE UNITED STATES AND ALLIES.

TED: PRESIDENT SAID TODAY'S ACTIONS FREEZE EVERY ASSET THAT FIVE RUSSIAN FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS AND TEN RUSSIAN INDIVIDUALS HAVE IN AMERICA.

>> WE'VE NOW SANCTIONED RUSSIAN BANKS THAT TOGETHER HOLD AROUND $1 TRILLION IN ASSETS.

WE'VE CUT OFF RUSSIA'S LARGEST BANK THAT HOLDS MORE THAN ONE-THIRD OF RUSSIA'S BANKING ASSETS BY ITSELF.

CUT IT OFF FROM THE U.S. FINANCIAL SYSTEM, AND TODAY, WE'RE ALSO BLOCKING FOUR MORE MAJOR BANKS.

THAT MEANS EVERY ASSET THEY HAVE IN AMERICA WILL BE FROZEN.

THIS INCLUDES VTB, THE SECOND LARGEST BANK IN RUSSIA, WHICH HAS $250 BILLION IN ASSETS.

AS PROMISED, WE'RE ALSO ADDING THE NAMES TO THE LIST OF RUSSIAN ELITES AND THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS THAT ARE SANCTIONED AS WELL.

TED: THERE ARE REPORTS OF MORE THAN 57 UKRAINIANS KILLED WITH 169 INJURED ON THIS FIRST DAY OF THE RUSSIAN ASSAULT.

UKRAINE'S AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S. TOLD NBC NEWS A RUSSIAN PLATOON FROM A MOTORIZED BRIGADE SURRENDERED TO UKRAINE FORCES AFTER THE RUSSIAN SOLDIERS LEARNED THEY WERE SENT TO KILL UKRAINIANS.

NO CONFIRMATION FROM RUSSIA'S MILITARY ON THAT REPORT.

>>> THOUSANDS DEMONSTRATING AGAINST UKRAINE, THE PROTESTS ARE NOT BEING TOLERATED AND CLOSE TO A THOUSAND DEMONSTRATORS HAVE BEEN DETAINED AFTER A MASSIVE GATHERING IN PUSHKIN SQUARE LESS THAN A MILE FROM RED SQUARE AND KREMLIN BLOCKED OFF FROM PROTESTS.

>>> STOCKS ON WALL STREET TUMBLING 800 POINTS IN EARLY TRADING, BUT ALL OF THE LOSSES WERE RECOVERED BY THE END OF THE DAY.

THE DOW FINISHED UP 92 POINTS.

DIFFERENT STORY IN RUSSIA.

THE MAIN STOCK MARKET THERE LOST NEARLY 40% OF VALUE TODAY.

AT ONE POINT IT WAS DOWN 45%.

REPORTEDLY ONE OF THE BIGGEST SINGLE DAY FREE FALLS IN MODERN MARKET HISTORY.

>>> FOR MORE ON THE RUSSIAN INVASION OF UKRAINE, WE SPOKE WITH KURT VOLKER, FORMER U.S.

AMBASSADOR TO NATO AND FORMER U.S. SPECIAL REPRESENTATIVE FOR UKRAINE NEGOTIATIONS.

AMBASSADOR VOLKER, GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US ON THIS MOMENTOUS DAY.

WHAT IS THE LATEST ON THE RUSSIAN ATTACK ON UKRAINE?

>> TED, THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

IT'S A TOUGH DAY FOR UKRAINE.

RUSSIA INVADED OVERNIGHT, FROM MULTIPLE DIRECTIONS, THEY USED MISSILES, AIRCRAFT, ATTACK HELICOPTERS, GROUND FORCES, TANKS, THREW EVERYTHING AT IT.

UKRAINIANS HAVE FOUGHT BACK.

THERE HAVE BEEN RUSSIAN CASUALTIES, RUSSIANS CAPTURED, TANKS DISABLED AND AIRCRAFT AND HELICOPTERS SHOT DOWN.

RUSSIA HAS THE UPPER HAND MILITARILY AND I THINK THE ATTACKS CONTINUE TONIGHT AGAIN AND MOVING CLOSER TO KYIV.

TED: SOUNDS LIKE THEY'RE ATTACKING MAJOR CITIES, ESPECIALLY KYIV.

WHAT'S THE GOAL HERE?

TO DISMANTLE UKRAINE'S GOVERNMENT?

>> I THINK SO.

I THINK, THE FIRST THING IS TO DISMANTLE THE MILITARY, AND ALL OF THEIR FIRST TARGETS WERE THE MILITARY AIRBASES TO DISABLE AIR RESPONSE.

THEY ARE NOW FIGHTING ON THE GROUND AND MOVING FORWARD TOWARDS KYIV.

I THINK THEY WANT TO ELIMINATE THE UKRAINIAN GOVERNMENT, TAKE CONTROL OF THE COUNTRY, THEY WANT TO MAN KYIV'S EXTERNAL BORDERS INCLUDING WITH EUROPE AND IMPOSE A RUSSIA FRIENDLY RM.

TED: WHY IS VLADIMIR PUTIN TRYING TO IMPOSE THIS RUSSIA FRIENDLY REGIME NOW AFTER ALL THESE YEARS?

WASN'T THERE AN AGREEMENT IN 1994 THAT RUSSIA WAS SUPPOSED TO RESPECT UKRAINE'S BORDERS?

>> SO MANY AGREEMENTS RUSSIA MADE AND VIOLATED.

YOU'RE THINKING OF THE BUDAPEST MEMORANDUM IN '95, WHERE THE FOUR NUCLEAR POWERS AND THE U.N., THE U.S., FRANCE, U.K. AND RUSSIA GUARANTEED UKRAINE'S SECURITY EXCHANGE FOR GIVING UP THE THIRD LARGEST NUCLEAR STOCKPILE.

WILLINGLY GAVE UP THE WEAPONS IN EXCHANGE FOR SECURITY GUARANTY, WHICH RUSSIA IS TRAMPLING ALL OVER NOW.

TED: YEAH, WHY IS THIS HAPPENING?

I HEARD REPORTS THAT RUSSIA MIGHT BE PRESSURED TO DO THIS BY HIS GENERALS, MILITARY, WANT TO DO SOMETHING TO PROVE HOW TOUGH HE IS.

>> I DON'T BELIEVE HE'S BEING PRESSURED, I BELIEVE HE'S DRIVING THE TRAIN.

IF YOU READ THE LONG ESSAY HE WROTE IN JULY OR IF YOU LISTEN TO THE SPEECH HE GAVE AS HE CHAIRED THE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL MEETING ON MONDAY, PUTIN BELIEVES HE'S ON A HISTORIC MISSION TO REBUILD THE RUSSIAN EMPIRE ON THE FORMER SOVIET UNION.

HE'S TAKEN OVER BELARUS, PUT FORCES THERE, CONTROLS SECURITY APPARATUS, MEDIA, CONTROLS THE GOVERNMENT.

TAKEN PIECES OF GEORGIA, MOLDOVA, TAKEN CRIMEA IN EASTERN UKRAINE ALREADY, AND NOW GOING FOR THE REST OF UKRAINE.

HE'S ON A MISSION TO REBUILD A SOVIET UNION IN HIS OWN MODEL THINKING HE'LL DO A BETTER JOB THAN THE SOVIET LEADERS WHO LOST THE COUNTRY IN 1991.

TED: BUT THE REACTION FROM FOLKS IN UKRAINE.

WE HEARD PROTESTS IN RUSSIA ARE PRETTY MUCH STOPPED.

ROUNDED UP.

THE REACTION IN UKRAINE, YOU CAN'T EXPECT -- CAN HE EXPECT JUST TO GO ROLLING TANKS AND EVERYONE START WAVING RUSSIAN FLAGS?

>> I THINK HE IS PREPARED TO FIGHT AND KILL UKRAINIANS AND DEFEAT THE MILITARY AND IMPOSE RULE.

I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY, YOU ASK WHY NOW?

THIS YEAR IS THE HUNDREDTH ANNIVERSARY OF THE FOUNDING OF THE SOVIET UNION.

PUTIN WANTS TO AVENGE THAT.

SEES WEAKNESS IN THE WEST AND EUROPE, AND SEES UKRAINE AS DRIFTING AWAY FROM THE RUSSIAN CIVILIZATION AND BELIEVES UKRAINE SHOULDN'T EXIST AS AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY, IT'S A PART OF RUSSIAN CIVILIZATION, NOT TRUE, THAT'S HOW HE SEES IT.

HE'S DETERMINED TO DESTROY THAT.

TED: THE U.S.

RESPONSE, NATO'S RESPONSE, THE SANCTIONS, HOW CRIPPLING ARE THE SANCTIONS, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS, TECHNOLOGY, THESE THINGS?

>> TOO LITTLE, TOO LATE.

WE HAVE TO KEEP DOING MORE.

WE'RE UNDERAPPRECIATING THE MOMENT.

THIS IS VLADIMIR PUTIN DECLARING WAR ON OUR SYSTEM OF VALUES.

PEOPLE BEING ABLE TO CHOOSE THEIR GOVERNMENTS, TO LIVE IN FREEDOM, TO LIVE IN PEACE, AND HE'S SAYING NO, PEOPLE DON'T HAVE THAT RIGHT.

I DECIDE.

THAT'S DANGEROUS FOR EVERYBODY.

IT'S DANGEROUS FOR US.

DANGEROUS FOR EUROPE.

IF HE TAKES UKRAINE FULLY, HE WON'T HESITATE TO TURN FURTHER ON GEORGIA AND PERHAPS THE BALTIC STATES WHICH ARE OUR NATO ALLIES AND WE NEED TO DEFEND THEM.

WE NEED STOP THIS VIOLENCE AND AGGRESSION IN ITS TRACKS IN UKRAINE IF WE CAN.

TED: YOU SAID TOO LITTLE, TOO LATE.

WILL THE SECTION ONES -- THE STOCK MARKET IN RUSSIA CRATERED.

WILL THE SANCTIONS MAKE A DIFFERENCE?

>> THEY WILL IN THE RUSSIAN ECONOMY AND WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE TO THE PUBLIC OPINION, AND MAYBE THE ECONOMIC POTENTIAL AVAILABLE.

PUTIN IS NOT GOING TO BE SWAYED IN HIS DECISION-MAKING BY THE SANCTIONS, HE'S ALREADY OPERATING ON A MILITARY LOGIC OF ATTACKING AND HAVING A CONQUEST OF UKRAINE.

HE'S GOING TO DO THAT.

OVER TIME, IF THE SANCTIONS PLAY, IT COULD BEGIN TO UNRAVEL HIS REGIME IN RUSSIA, THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE TO HOPE FOR.

WE SHOULD BE DOING MORE AND DOING IT FASTER.

WE SHOULD BE THINKING NOW, CAN'T BE CONTEMPT WITH PUTINISM SURVIVING IN EUROPE AND THE THREAT THAT MEANS.

THE INVASION WE SAW LAST NIGHT IS REMINISCENT OF THE INVASION OF 1939 IN POLAND OR CZECHOSLOVAKIA BY HITLER.

WE NEED TO BE STOPPING THIS QUICKER, SOONER AND THE MORE WE LET IT GO, THE BIGGER AND WORSE IT GETS.

TED: LAST QUESTION REAL QUICKLY AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

HOW DOES THIS END?

HOW DO YOU SEE THIS ENDING?

>> UNFORTUNATELY, I THINK IF PUTIN DOES HAVE HIS MIND-SET ON TAKING ALL OF UKRAINE, WHICH I BELIEVE, HE WILL DO THAT IN THE NEXT FEW DAYS AND FACING A SITUATION OF HAVING TO UNDERMINE THAT, HAVING TO ROLL BACK RUSSIA'S TAKEOVER OF UKRAINE.

THINK OF IT LIKE IRAQ'S TAKEOVER OF KUWAIT IN 1990 WHERE PRESIDENT GEORGE H.W.

BUSH SAID THIS WILL NOT STAND AND MOBILIZED A GLOBAL COALITION TO ROLL THAT BACK.

THAT'S THE SITUATION WE'RE GOING TO BE IN NOW WITH UKRAINE AND RUSSIA GOING FORWARD.

WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO FORM A MAJOR COALITION, USE ALL OF THE MEANS AT OUR DISPOSAL.

TED: KURT VOLKER, FORMER AMBASSADOR TO NATO, GOOD INFORMATION, GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> THANKS, TED.

GOOD TO SEE YOU.

TED: UP NEXT, WE'LL HEAR FROM ASU'S CENTER ON THE FUTURE OF WAR ON THE RUSSIAN ASSAULT AGAINST UKRAINE.

.

TED: WE CONTINUE COVERAGE OF RUSSIAN INVASION OF UKRAINE WITH DANIEL ROTHENBERG, ASU'S CENTER ON THE FUTURE OF WAR.

DANIEL ROTHENBERG, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US, WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

RIGHT TO THE BATTLEFIELD ASPECTS OF WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE RUSSIAN MILITARY ASSAULT.

WHAT DO WE KNOW?

SOUNDS LIKE THEY'RE TARGETING BIG CITIES, CHERNOBYL IS CAPTURED.

WHAT DO WE KNOW REGARDING MILITARY TACTICS SO FAR?

>> ONE INTERESTING THING ABOUT THE MILITARY CONFLICT IS THE U.S. DECIDED TO PUT THE WORLD ON NOTICE REGARDING THE RUSSIAN PLANS AND MORE OR LESS FOLLOWED THROUGH ON WHAT WE WERE TOLD TO EXPECT, THERE HAVE BEEN ROCKET ATTACKS, THE MOVEMENT OF ARMED COLUMNS AND IT STARTED LAST NIGHT AND IT'S ONGOING.

TED: AND SOUNDS AS THOUGH AIRFIELDS AND AIR DEFENSE AMONG THE FIRST THINGS TO BE ATTACKED, TRUE?

>> TRUE, AND A CLASSIC STRATEGY.

SOMETHING THAT THE U.S. DID IN THE PAST, AND IT MAKES SENSE TO GROUND THE OPPONENT'S AIR FORCE.

TED: AS FAR AS THE SANCTIONS WHICH PRESIDENT BIDEN ANNOUNCED IN RESPONSE TO THIS AND OBVIOUSLY A NUMBER OF NATO COUNTRIES AND ALLIES ARE MOVING ALONG WITH THESE KINDS OF SANCTIONS, HOW MUCH CAN SOMETHING LIKE THAT HURT RUSSIA, AND HOW MUCH OF AN IMPACT CAN THIS MAKE?

>> ONE THING THAT'S BEEN INTERESTING ABOUT WATCHING ALL OF THIS FROM A DISTANCE IS THAT THE INITIAL THREATS BY PUTIN, PUTIN MADE A SERIES OF SPECIFIC DEMANDS, AND THE U.S. AND EUROPEAN ALLIES DECIDED NOT TO CAVE INTO THE DEMANDS, BUT TO EXPRESS A UNIFIED FRONT AND TO BE VERY CLEAR THAT PUNISHING SANCTIONS WOULD BE THE RESULT OF ADDITIONAL MILITARY ACTION.

THOSE HAVE JUST BEEN ANNOUNCED.

IT'S DIFFICULT TO KNOW EXACTLY WHAT IMPACT THOSE SANCTIONS WILL HAVE, NOR HAVE THE MOST SEVERE SANCTIONS BEEN PUT INTO PLACE YET.

BUT WHATEVER HAPPENS WITH SANCTIONS, THEIR IMPACT TAKES MORE TIME.

IT ISN'T LIKE AN INVASION, SO WE HAVE TO SIT BACK AND WATCH AND TRY TO ASSESS WHAT ALL OF THIS MEANS AND, OF COURSE, IT WON'T HAPPEN ON THE TIMELINE THAT SOME PEOPLE WOULD LIKE TO SEE.

TED: RUSSIAN OLIGARCHS, VLADIMIR PUTIN'S INNER CIRCLE, FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS, TECH COMPANIES HAVE BEEN TARGETED BY THE SANCTIONS.

WHAT'S TO KEEP THE RUSSIANS FROM TURNING TO CHINA AND SAY, HELLO, YOU'RE OUR NEW BEST FRIEND?

>> WE'VE ALREADY SEEN MOVES IN THAT DIRECTION.

AGAIN, NO ONE KNOWS WHERE ALL OF THIS IS GOING.

THIS SUGGESTS PRETTY POWERFUL AND SIGNIFICANT REALIGNMENTS IN GLOBAL POLITICS, IT'S NOT CLEAR THAT CHINA IS GOING TO WANT TO COZY UP TO RUSSIA ON THE TERMS THAT ARE OF INTEREST TO RUSSIA, BUT AGAIN, A LOT OF THINGS HAPPENING IN THE WORLD, AND IT'S PRETTY EARLY TO MAKE PREDICTIONS ON WHERE IT'S ALL GOING, BUT THIS IS A FRIGHTENING MOMENT, IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO PAY ATTENTION AND BE CONCERNED.

TED: IF RUSSIA DOES COZY UP TO CHINA AND VICE VERSA, COULD THAT BE A PRETEXT FOR CHINA TO START EXPANSION MOVEMENTS AND THINKING SPECIFICALLY OF TAIWAN?

>> CHINA HAS MADE A LOT OF EXPANSIONIST MOVEMENTS IN THE SOUTH CHINA SEA, BUT, OF COURSE, THE ISSUE OF TAIWAN LOOMS LARGE IN EVERYBODY'S MIND, AND YOU'RE RIGHT TO POINT OUT THE SIGNIFICANCE OF INCREASED MILITARY PRESSURE ON TAIWAN, COULD THIS HAPPEN?

OF COURSE, IT COULD HAPPEN.

NOT CLEAR IT WOULD BE A DIRECT RESULT OF RUSSIA'S ACTIONS BUT A DANGEROUS AND TENSE TIME, AND OBVIOUSLY MAKES SENSE TO PAY ATTENTION TO THE POSSIBILITY.

>> THE REFUGEE ASPECT OF ALL OF THIS, WE'RE ALREADY HEARING THAT PEOPLE ARE FLEEING KYIV.

THEY'RE WALKING INTO POLAND WITH SUITCASES IN THEIR HANDS.

HOW DO YOU SEE THAT PLAYING OUT?

>> SO ONE THING WE KNOW FROM EUROPEAN NATION SAYS THAT THEY'VE EXPRESSED AN OPENNESS TO RECEIVING UKRAINIAN REFUGEES.

I'M SURE THAT'S WHAT WE'LL SEE.

INTERESTINGLY, THERE WEREN'T LARGE MOVEMENTS OF POTENTIAL REFUGEES BEFORE THE INVASION BEGAN, WHICH TELLS YOU SOMETHING ABOUT THE ATTITUDE AND FEELINGS OF UKRAINIANS, BUT NO DOUBT THERE WILL BE A BIG MOVEMENT OF PEOPLE, AND IT'S GOING TO BE COMPLEX, IT WILL LIKELY BE A HUMANITARIAN EMERGENCY, BUT WE DO SEE THE STATEMENTS ON THE PART OF EUROPEAN NATIONS THAT THEY WILL WELCOME AND ASSIST THE REFUGEES.

TED: VLADIMIR PUTIN, I'M ASKING A NUMBER OF FOLKS, WHY DO YOU THINK HE'S DOING THIS, AND WHAT RESULTS DO YOU THINK HE -- WHAT DOES HE CONSIDER A GOOD RESULT?

I MEAN, YOU'RE GOING TO OCCUPY A COUNTRY THAT DOESN'T WANT YOU THERE?

I DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS.

EXPLAIN, PLEASE.

>> INTERESTING QUESTION, IT MAKES SENSE TO TAKE PUTIN'S WORDS AT FACE VALUE.

HE'S QUITE CLEAR AT STATING WHAT'S GOING ON.

JUST GAVE A SPEECH THAT UKRAINE IS NOT A LEGITIMATE STATE, NO RIGHT TO EXIST, AND THAT IT'S APPROPRIATE FOR RUSSIA TO STEP IN AND CONTROL THAT TERRITORY.

THIS IS AN ENORMOUSLY COMPLEX STATEMENT, WHAT WE CALL A WAR OF AGGRESSION, AND AGGRESSION IS ONE OF THE MOST SEVERE CRIMES OF INTERNATIONAL LAW, AND THE REASON IT'S SO SEVERE, IT UPENDS THE RULES OF THE GAME, IT CHALLENGES THE STABILITY OF THE INTERNATIONAL ORDER.

WHERE THIS IS GOING, NOBODY KNOWS EXACTLY, BUT THIS IS AN INCREDIBLY SERIOUS CHALLENGE TO OUR SYSTEM, EUROPE GIVES US PAUSE.

TED: LAST QUESTION, IS THIS A SERIOUS CHALLENGE TO BORDER STATES THAT USED TO BE IN THE SOVIET UNION?

>> YES, ABSOLUTELY.

NOW IT'S A DIFFERENT SITUATION FOR NATO-MEMBER STATES LIKE THE BALTIC STATES BECAUSE THEY ARE COVERED BY MUTUAL SELF-DEFENSE AGREEMENTS.

IF THEY'RE ATTACKED, IT DEMANDS THAT THE U.S. AND OTHER NATO PARTNERS RESPOND AND PROTECT THEM, BUT NEVERTHELESS, CHALLENGING THE SOVEREIGN, THE BORDERS OF A SOVEREIGN STATE IN THIS MANNER IS AN ENORMOUSLY DANGEROUS SITUATION, AND IT UPENDS A LOT OF WHAT WE TAKE FOR GRANTED AND WHAT HOLDS THIS GLOBAL ORDER TOGETHER ARE AGREEMENTS TO RESPECT STATES IN ALL SORTS OF WAYS, AND AS YOU UNDERMINE THE AGREEMENTS, ONE CAN PUT, CALL INTO QUESTION, A LOT OF WHAT HOLDS OUR WORLD TOGETHER.

THIS IS A VERY DANGEROUS TIME.

TED: DANIEL, THANK YOU, DANIEL ROTHENBERG, CENTER ON THE FUTURE OF WAR.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

APPRECIATE IT.

ALWAYS DO.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH, TED.

.

TED: WE CONCLUDE OUR SERIES HONORING BLACK HISTORY MONTH WITH AN INTERNATIONAL AWARD WINNING NOVELIST OF SCIENCE FICTION AND FANTASY.

NNEDI OKORAFOR WAS BORN TO NIGERIAN PARENTS AND KNOWN FOR WEAVING AFRICAN CULTURE INTO SETTINGS AND CHARACTERS.

WE SPOKE TO NNEDI OKORAFOR ABOUT HER CONSIDERABLE WRITING CAREER.

NNEDI, WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON," GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

START BY CONGRATULATING YOU ON YOUR SUCCESS, YOU ARE WILDLY POPULAR, YOU ARE PROLIFIC, DOING SUCH A GREAT JOB HERE, I WANT YOU TO DESCRIBE YOUR BOOKS BECAUSE I'M SEEING FANTASY, I'M SEEING MAGICAL REALISM, FUTURISM.

HOW WOULD YOU, IF YOU WANTED TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF, WHAT KIND OF WRITER WOULD YOU SAY YOU WERE?

>> OH, BOY.

WHAT KIND OF WRITER?

I WOULD SAY THAT I AM A WRITER OF SCIENCE FICTION AND FANTASY.

THOSE ARE LABELS THAT PEOPLE RECOGNIZE, THOUGH IT'S MORE THAN THAT.

I'M A WRITER OF SIGNS FICTION AND FANTASY AND THE SUBCATEGORIES ARE AFRICANISM AND AFRICAN JUJUISM, IT'S AFRICAN ROOTED, AND AFRICA ROOTED NARRATIVE.

ALL OF MY STORIES ARE JUST LIKE THAT.

TED: WHAT GOT YOU STARTED AND IN THIS SERIES, WHAT GOT YOU STARTED IN THE MAGICAL REALISM AND AFRICAN FUTURISM.

>> YEAH, SO BOTH OF MY PARENTS ARE NIGERIAN IMMIGRANTS AND TAKING MY SIBLINGS AND ME BACK TO NIGERIA FROM A YOUNG AGE, SO BEFORE I WAS WRITING, THIS WAS A REALLY GREAT INTEREST TO ME.

THE CULTURAL, THE CULTURAL STUFF, JUST LIKE LEARNING THE NEW AREAS, ALL OF THAT.

SO THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN A PART OF MY BACKGROUND.

A STRONG PART OF MY BACKGROUND.

SO WHEN I STARTED WRITING, I ALSO AM IMAGINATIVE, I WAS JUST BORN, LITERALLY JUST BORN THAT WAY.

I SEE MORE THAN WHAT MOST PEOPLE SEE.

THAT'S A VERY SIMPLE WAY OF PUTTING IT.

SO WHEN I STARTED WRITING THE STORIES, MY MIND IMMEDIATELY WENT BACK TO THOSE TRIPS TO NIGERIA AND MEETING RELATIVES AND HOW MUCH THAT AFFECTED ME IN THE WAY THEY SEE THE WORLD, THOSE TRIPS WERE PIVOTAL FOR ME.

WHEN I STARTED WRITING, THAT IS WHEN MY STORIES STARTED, AND ON TOP OF THAT, THE MYSTICAL ELEMENTS.

THOSE ARE ALWAYS SOMETHING I'VE BEEN INTERESTED IN AS A NIGERIAN-AMERICAN.

THE INDIGENOUS SPIRITUALITY OF NIGERIA HAVE BEEN A GREAT INTEREST TO ME, SO WHEN I STARTED WRITING THE STORIES, IT CAME FORTH, AND IT WAS LIKE I WASN'T SPECIFICALLY THINKING I'M WRITING FANTASY HERE.

A LOT OF THE THINGS I WRITE ABOUT ARE THINGS PEOPLE BELIEVE IN.

SO I WAS WEAVING MY IMAGINATION WITH THE SPIRITUALITY THINGS, THE SPIRITUAL ASPECTS AND THAT'S WHERE WHAT I WRITE -- THE ORIGIN OF WHAT I WRITE CAME FROM.

TED: I NOTICE THE YOUR DEDICATION WAS TO THE STORIES THAT CONSTANTLY BREATHE ON MY NECK.

I SEE YOU.

THAT IN AND OF ITSELF HAS THIS MYSTICAL, SPIRITUAL QUALITY.

>> YES, YES, AND IT'S DEEP.

IT'S REALLY DEEP, AND THIS SERIES CALLED THE SCRIPT SERIES, AND THERE'S THREE BOOKS IN THE SERIES SO FAR.

THE WAY THAT -- WHAT I'M DOING IN THE NARRATIVES IS THERE'S A LOT MORE GOING ON THAN PEOPLE WHO DON'T KNOW THE CULTURE CAN KNOW.

YOU'D BE SURPRISED WHAT I DIDN'T HAVE TO MAKE UP.

THERE'S SO MUCH.

GROWING UP I WAS LISTENING AND HEARING ALL OF THE STORIES AND IDEAS AROUND ME, AND THOSE WENT RIGHT INTO THE BOOK.

THERE'S SO MUCH GOING ON IN THESE BOOKS.

TED: TALK ABOUT YOUR WRITING PROCESS.

INTERESTING WHAT YOU JUST SAID, BECAUSE FOR THOSE OF US WHO AREN'T STEEPED IN NIGERIAN CULTURE AND AFRICAN FUTURISM, YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE WRITING ABOUT AND MAYBE AN AUDIENCE, SMALLER AUDIENCE KNOWS BUT TO REACH A BROADER AUDIENCE, HOW MUCH DO YOU TELL?

HOW MUCH DO YOU EXPLAIN?

>> IT'S LIKE -- SOMETHING THAT I DON'T WORRY TOO MUCH ABOUT, BECAUSE THERE ARE MANY DIFFERENT CULTURES ALL AROUND THE WORLD AND WE ALL HAVE GOOD STORIES, WHAT MAKES A GOOD STORY ISN'T NECESSARILY EXPLAINING EVERY SINGLE THING.

IT'S NOT AN ANTHROPOLOGY REPORT.

IT'S TAKING, AT LEAST FOR ME, I TAKE THE CHARACTER AND PUT YOU RIGHT INSIDE IT, SO YOU CATCH ON.

EVENTUALLY YOU CATCH ON, AND YOU RELAX, RELAX IN THE WORLD AND YOU CATCH ON.

WHEN IT COMES TO EXPLAINING, I DON'T EXPLAIN MUCH, BUT BECAUSE I IMMERSE THE READER SO DEEPLY IN THE WORLD AND THE STORY AND THE CHARACTER, IT DOESN'T NEED -- THAT NEED FOR EXPLAINING EVERYTHING, WHAT IS THIS FOOD?

WHAT IS THIS PLACE?

WHAT IS THIS PLANT?

WHAT IS THIS CULTURAL EXCHANGE?

THE NEED TO EXPLAIN ALL THOSE THINGS IS NOT NECESSARY.

I JUST THROW YOU RIGHT IN.

TED: YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE AS WELL, THOUGH, THAT YOUR READERS AREN'T LOST AND NOT SAYING I'M NOT GETTING THIS.

>> UH-HUH.

UH-HUH.

I TRUST IT.

A LOT OF TRUST.

TED: I ASK WRITERS THIS ALL THE TIME.

DO THE CHARACTERS EVER DO THINGS THAT SURPRISE YOU AND GO THEIR OWN WAY AND MAKE YOU FOLLOW THEM?

>> ALL THE TIME.

TED: AH, YEAH.

>> ALL THE TIME.

THE WAY THEY WRITE, I DON'T OUTLINE, I JUST SIT AND START WRITING.

I'M THE KIND OF WRITER WHO THE CHARACTERS SPEAK TO ME.

I'VE HAD PLENTY OF TIME WHERE I'M WRITING SOMETHING, AND I WILL NOT KNOW WHAT'S ABOUT TO HAPPEN OR I THINK I KNOW WHAT'S ABOUT TO HAPPEN, AND THE CHARACTER DOES SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

THERE ARE TIMES WHERE THE CHARACTER DOES SOMETHING THAT WHERE I JUST DON'T EVEN AGREE WITH THAT PHILOSOPHY.

IT'S LIKE I'M THIS BYSTANDER, I'M CHANNELING A STORY AND HAVE TO WATCH IT HAPPEN.

SO MY CHARACTERS SURPRISE ME ALL THE TIME, AND SOMETIMES IT FEELS LIKE, WELL, IT'S NOT EVEN FEELS LIKE, THEY ARE IN CONTROL OF THE STORY MORE THAN I AM.

A LOT OF TIMES I HAVE TO STEP BACK AND LET THEM DO WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO.

AND I THINK IT'S REALLY ENJOYABLE, EVEN IF IT'S A LITTLE DISTURBING AT TIMES.

THE SURPRISE OF IT, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT'S ABOUT TO HAPPEN.

YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN WITH THE CHARACTERS, AND I REALLY ENJOY THAT.

TED: SOUNDS FANTASTIC, THE CREATIVE PROCESS IS FASCINATING TO ME.

BEFORE WE LET YOU GO HERE.

HOLLYWOOD CALLING?

TV?

HBO?

YOU HAVE A LOT OF STUFF OUT THERE, AND THIS STUFF WOULD WORK REALLY WELL VISUALLY.

>> YEP.

TED: I SEE.

UH-OH, WE'RE KEEPING IT HIDDEN FOR NOW.

>> YEAH, JUST WAIT FOR IT, JUST WAIT FOR IT.

I CAN'T SAY ANYTHING, I CAN'T SAY ANYTHING.

THERE ARE THINGS TO SAY, BUT I CAN'T SAY ANYTHING.

TED: ALL RIGHT, THAT'S ENCOURAGING ENOUGH AND GOOD ENOUGH TO KNOW.

NNEDI, THANK YOU SO MUCH AND CONGRATULATIONS.

ALWAYS WONDERFUL TO SPEAK WITH WRITERS AND SUCCESSFUL WRITERS WHO ARE ABLE TO DO WHAT YOU DO, GET THE CREATIVE PROCESS ON THE PAGE AND HAVE OTHERS ENJOY AND SHARE IT WITH YOU.

THANK YOU FOR SHARING YOUR STORY WITH US, APPRECIATE IT.

>> MY PLEASURE.

THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

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TED: THAT IS IT FOR NOW, I'M TED SIMONS, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US, YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING.

COMING UP NEXT HALF HOUR OF LOCAL NEWS ON CRONKITE NEWS.

MEMBERS OF ARIZONA'S CONGRESSIONAL DELEGATION ALONG WITH UKRAINIAN EX-PATS HERE IN THE STATE REACT TO THE RUSSIAN MILITARY ASSAULT ON UKRAINE.