[♪ THEME MUSIC ♪] >>> COMING UP IN THE NEXT HOUR ON ARIZONA ON ARIZONA PBS, HORIZON," ARIZONA CONGRESSMAN TOM O'HALLERAN JOINS US TO TALK ABOUT WHAT PRESIDENT BIDEN SAID, AND DIDN'T SAY, IN LAST NIGHT'S STATE OF THE UNION STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESS, ON "CRONKITE NEWS," MORE REACTION TO THE STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESS FROM ARIZONA'S CONGRESSIONAL DELEGATION.

THAT'S ALL AHEAD IN THE NEXT HOUR ON ARIZONA PBS.

>>> GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED.

RUSSIAN FORCE TODAY HAVE MOSTLY STALLED IN THEIR ADVANCE TOWARDS THE UKRAINE CAPITOL OF KYIV.

THE PENTAGON SAYS THE LACK OF MOVEMENT MAY INDICATE THE FORCES ARE REGROUPING.

THE PENTAGON SAYS RUSSIAN TROOPS ARE FACING LESS REACEANCE ON THEIR ADVANCE OF SEVERAL UKRAINIAN CITIES.

>>> AS FOR CASUALTIES, UKRAINE NOW SAYS THAT MORE THAN 2,000 CIVILIANS HAVE BEEN KILLED SINCE THE START OF THE INVASION.

AND RUSSIA SAID THAT 498 RUSSIAN TROOPS HAVE BEEN KILLED WITH 1600 OTHERS INJURED.

BUT THE PENTAGON SAID IT WAS, QUOTE, EXTREMELY SKEPTICAL OF ANY INFORMATION RUSSIA IS PUTTING FORWARD.

>>> RECORD NUMBERS OF REFUGEES ARE PLEADING TO POLAND, HUNGARY, ROMANIA, AND SLOVAKIA.

MORE THAN 870,000 HAVE FLED UKRAINE SINCE THE RUSSIAN INVASION BEGAN.

>>> THE U.S. JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TODAY ANNOUNCED A NEW UNIT TO HELP ENFORCE SANCTIONS AGAINST RUSSIAN OLIGARCHS.

THE UNIT WILL ALSO INCLUDE NATIONAL SECURITY INVESTIGATORS FROM THE FBI, U.S. MARSHALL SERVICE AND U.S.

POSTAL SERVICE >>> AND SOUTH CAROLINA SENATOR AND TRUMP SUPPORTER RAISED EYEBROWS TODAY BY DISAGREEING WITH TRUMP'S ASSESSMENT THAT VLADIMIR PUTIN IS A GENIUS.

>> I THINK THAT WAS A MISTAKE.

LET'S JUST MAKE IT CLEAR, PUTIN IS NOT A GENIUS.

HE IS A WAR CRIMINAL.

>>> PRESIDENT BIDEN DELIVERED HIS FIRST STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESS YESTERDAY.

THE SPEECH INCLUDED RALLYING CRIES FOR UKRAINE, ALONG WITH MARKS ON A NUMBER OF DOMESTIC POLICY ISSUES.

WE SPOKE WITH CONGRESSMAN TOM O'HALLERAN ABOUT THE PRESIDENT'S ADDRESS.

CONGRESSMAN GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESS?

>> THANKS, TED.

I -- I THINK THAT IT WENT WELL.

I ENJOYED IT.

IT WAS -- YOU KNOW, THE START OF IT, OBVIOUSLY WAS ABOUT THE TRAGEDY THAT IS OCCURRING DURING THE PUTIN WAR OVER IN UKRAINE, AND I HAVE BEEN TO UKRAINE A FEW YEARS BACK, SPENT TIME WITH THEIR MILITARY, AND HAVE BEEN HIGHLY IMPRESSED WITH WHAT THEY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH AND LEARN IN A FAIRLY SHORT NUMBER OF YEARS.

I'M VERY HAPPY THAT THE UNITED STATES, AND IT'S NATO ALLIES ARE WORKING VERY HARD TO ADDRESS THE ISSUE AS MUCH AS THEY CAN, AND HOPEFULLY WE CAN ADDRESS IT IN A WAY THAT WILL NOT ALLOW PUTIN TO OVERCOME THAT COUNTRY, BUT IF THEY DO, WE WILL HAVE TO -- WE'LL HAVE A MUCH LONGER PERIOD OF TIME IN WHICH TO BE ABLE TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR NATO ALLIANCE IS STRONG; THAT WE PROTECT THE BORDERS OF THE COUNTRIES THAT ARE GOING TO BE UNDER -- ARE AND WILL CONTINUE TO BE ON THE BORDERS OF RUSSIA, AND MAKE SURE THAT OVER THAT TIME, WE CONTINUE TO ADDRESS THE NEEDS OF THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE, THE UKRAINIAN GOVERNMENT, AND THE SAFETY OF NOT ONLY EUROPE, BUT POTENTIALLY WHOLE WORLD.

>> EARLY PART OF THE SPEECH EMPHASIZING UKRAINE AS YOU MENTIONED.

WAS THAT A WAY TO GET A MORE BIPARTISAN TONE TO SET THE STAGE, SO TO SPEAK?

>> I THINK THEY DID THAT.

I ALSO THINK IT IS BECAUSE IT WAS A KEY ISSUE THAT THE PRESIDENT WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT IN RELATION TO THE IMPORTANCE OF IT.

I KNOW THERE ARE PLENTY OF ISSUES OUT THERE THAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT, BUT THIS ISSUE -- YOU KNOW, HAVING BROUGHT TOGETHER NATO, THE WAY THE PRESIDENT HAS, AND HAVING TO CLEARLY IDENTIFY WHO WAS THE PERPETRATOR OF THIS TERRIBLE PROCESS, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HIGHLIGHT THE EXTENT TO WHICH THIS HAS AN IMPACT ON OUR WORD, OUR ECONOMY, OUR FUTURE, AND THAT'S WHY I THINK THAT PRESIDENT HIGHLIGHTED THAT AT THE BEGINNING TO MAKE SURE THE AMERICAN PUBLIC CLEARLY UNDERSTOOD, AND YOU SAW OBVIOUSLY WHAT IS A FEELING ON THE FLOOR IN CONGRESS THAT WE -- WE ARE IN THIS TOGETHER.

YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO SEE ONE ISSUE OR TWO ISSUES WHERE PEOPLE HAVE A DISAGREEMENT, BUT ON THE LARGEST CONTEXT OF THIS, WE ARE NOT ONLY ON -- ON THIS TOGETHER, BUT WE HAVE TO CONTINUE TO DO THAT.

THIS IS ONE OF THOSE ISSUES THAT -- FOREIGN POLICY, WE HAVE TO -- AS AMERICANS BE TOGETHER ON THIS, AND SHOW THE WORLD WHAT TYPE OF LEADERSHIP IT MEANS TO BE UNITED.

>> WITH THAT IN MIND, AGAIN, BACK TO THE SPEECH, SOME CRITICS SAY IT STARTED WITH THAT, AND WITH OTHERISH -- ISSUES AS WELL, WHICH IT IS TO FUND THE POLICE.

AND IT WAS ALMOST AS IF HE WAS SPEAKING IN SOME WAYS TO REPUBLICANS AND DISAFFECTED DEMOCRATS.

DID THAT RING TRUE TO YOU?

>> I FIRST, I HOPE HE WAS REAP REAP -- SPEAKING TO REPUBLICANS AND UNREGISTERED AMERICANS.

ON DEFUNDING THE POLICE ISSUE, OBVIOUSLY, MY BACKGROUND AS A FORMER POLICEMAN, I WAS GLAD HE SAID IT.

WE ARE TRYING TO WORK RIGHT NOW TO ADDRESS THAT ISSUE, AND WE'RE ALSO DOING ANALYSIS ON HOW MUCH POLICE HAVE BEEN DEFUNDED, IF YOU WANT TO CALL IT THAT, OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST TWO DECADES BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

SO NO MATTER WHICH ADMINISTRATION IT HAS BEEN, THERE HAS BEEN A LOT LESS FUNDINGS GOING TO OUR POLICE DEPARTMENTS, AND I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT.

I THINK IT GOES TO THE CORE SAFETY OF OUR CITIZENS AND OFFICERS.

>> REFORM THE POLICE, BETTER WORD THAN WEDE-FUND?

>> THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT, EVEN AMONGST THE POLICE.

WE ARE ALL IN AGREEMENT THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME LEVEL OF REFORM WITHIN SOME POLICE DEPARTMENTS.

A LOT OF IT GOES INTO -- HOW DO WE ADDRESS THE TRAINING SO THIS DOESN'T OCCUR AGAIN?

HOW DO WE ADDRESS THE JUSTICE SYSTEM SO WE HAVE A FAIR JUSTICE SYSTEM?

BUT TO GO OUT AND START TO -- FOR SOME PEOPLE TO START TO GO OUT AND SAY THE POLICE ARE THE UNDERLYING ISSUE HERE, IT'S JUST HOW WE ADAPT TO A CHANGING ENVIRONMENT WITHIN OUR COUNTRY, AND IDENTIFY CLEARLY THAT POLICE ARE PART OF THE ANSWER, AND THOSE THAT ARE A PROBLEM WITHIN THE SYSTEM -- THAT COULD BE -- WE CAN DO A BETTER JOB.

>> CONGRESSMAN THE PRESIDENT DIDN'T MENTION A BUILD-BACK BETTER -- I DON'T THINK HE EVEN PUT THOSE THREE WORDS TOGETHER.

DID THAT SURPRISE YOU AT ALL?

>> PROBABLY NOT.

THERE WERE A FEW OF THE ISSUES WITHIN BUILD BACK BETTER HIGHLIGHTED, YOU KNOW, PREKINDERGARTEN, CHILD CARE, SOME OF THOSE OTHER ISSUES, BUT THAT'S AN ISSUE WE'RE STILL DEBATING DEBATING.

IT STARTED OUT AT 6 TRILLION.

IT'S DOWN TO 1.6 TRILLION.

IT IS STILL A HIGH COST, BUT IT IS SOMETHING WE NEED TO COME TOGETHER AND LOOK AT ON THE ABILITY TO MAKE SURE WE CAN COMPETE THROUGHOUT THIS WORLD, AND THOSE THE ISSUES WE SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT, AND I THINK THAT'S THE ISSUE THAT THE PRESIDENT WAS TRYING TO GET AT, NOT ONLY THAT, BUT THE INFRASTRUCTURE BILL, AND THE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN.

>>> AND ANOTHER ISSUE APPARENTLY ON CAPITOL HILL IS DECORUM.

YOUR THOUGHTS AT THE OUTBURST WHEN THE PRESIDENT WAS STARTING TO SPEAK OF HIS SON AND THE MILITARY ILLNESS, WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT?

>> THERE IS NO PLACE FOR THAT.

THAT LAST NIGHT, WAS JUST SHOCKING, AND THE IDEA THAT SOMEBODY WOULD -- FIRST OF ALL, THE MESSAGE WAS ABOUT OUR VETERANS, AND CARE FOR OUR VETERANS, AND REACHING OUT INTO THE -- THE WORLD TO UNDERSTAND THAT EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE PUT TENS OF TRILLS -- TENS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS INTO VETERAN'S CARE OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS, THERE IS STILL MUCH MORE TO BE DONE.

I JUST CAME OFF OF THE FLOOR JUST NOW, AND VOTED ON BURN PITS.

AND THAT IS GOING TO BE A VERY COSTLY PROCESS, BECAUSE IT'S OVER A NUMBER OF YEARS, IT IS GOING TO BE ABOUT $50 BILLION, BUT OUR VETERANS DESERVE THIS.

WE -- THEY SIGNED A COMMITMENT TO PROTECT OUR COUNTRY, AND -- AND WE SIGNED ON TO THAT COMMITMENT TO TAKE CARE OF THEM, AND WE HAVE TO DO A BETTER JOB, AND WE'RE TRYING TO, BUT FOR SOMEBODY TO -- INTO DEBT IN THE MIDDLE OF A MESSAGE TO OUR ENTIRE COUNTRY, THERE IS JUST NO CAUSE FOR THAT, AND IT IS IRRESPONSIBLE.

>> CONGRESSMAN, GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

THANK YOU, AGAIN, FOR JOINING US.

WE CERTAINLY APPRECIATE.

>> THANK YOU, >>> UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON," A CALL TO INCLUDE INDEPENDENTS IN PRIMARY ELECTIONS.

>>> SAVE DEMOCRACY IS A GROUP THAT IS WORKING ON WAYS TO TREAT ALL VOTERS EQUALLY, AND GIVE ALL CANDIDATES EQUAL ACCESS TO THE BALLOT.

WE LEARNED MORE FROM FORMER PHOENIX MAYOR PAUL JOHNSON AND SAVE DEMOCRACY BOARD MEMBER TED HINDERACHER.

GENTLEMEN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

PAUL JOHNSON IT HAS BEEN A LONG TIME.

GOOD TO SEE YOU AS WELL.

>> GOOD TO SEE YOU AS WELL.

>> SAVE DEMOCRACY WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?

>> IT'S THE PARTISAN SYSTEM THAT INCREASINGLY BECOMING MORE DIVIDED.

IT NOT GIVING FAIR REPRESENTATION TO THE SINGLE LARGEST GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT ARE REGISTERED VOTERS TODAY.

AND IT'S UNFAIR TO THE CANDIDATES WHO WANT TO RUN AS INDEPENDENTS.

IT HAS LEFT US ON A LIMITATION AS VOTERS, AND WE'RE IN THE POSITION WHERE THE REPUBLICAN IS BEING CHALLENGED.

>> AND ON THE WEBSITE, I SEE THE ELECTORAL SYSTEM NO LONGER EVENTS THE PEOPLE.

THAT'S WHAT PAUL IS TALKING ABOUT, RIGHT?

>> THAT IS EXACTLY RIGHT.

YOU HAVE 80% OF THE LEGISLATIVE DISTRICTS THAT ARE SAFE DISTRICTS, WHICH MEANS THEY ARE EITHER GOING TO GO REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT IN THE GENERAL ELECTION, SO THOSE ELECTIONS ARE ALL DECIDED IN THE PRIMARY RACE, AND YOU ONLY HAVE ABOUT A THIRD OF THE VOTERS THAT EVEN VOTE IN THE PRIMARIES.

YOU HAVE A THIRD THAT ARE INDEPENDENT, A THIRD REPUBLICAN, AND A THIRD DEMOCRAT.

AND ESSENTIALLY YOU HAVE 10% OF VOTERS SELECTING OVER 80% OF OUR STATE LEGISLATURES.

SO THE CANDIDATES DON'T HAVE TO ANSWER TO A WIDER S.W.A.T.

-- SWATHE OF THE CONSTITUENTS.

THEY ONLY HAVE TO ANSWER TO WHAT IS THE MOST STUBBORN VOTERS IN THE ELECTORATE.

>> IF THERE IS A PROBLEM IN THE PRIMARY -- I HAVE HEARD CRITICS SEE THIS -- IT MIGHT LEAN HEAVILY ONE OR ANOTHER, BUT YOU GET TO BALANCE THAT OUT ONCE THE GENERAL COMES AROUND.

>> IT TAKES 7,000 SIGNATURES TO BECOME A REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE, 6,000 TO BECOME A DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE, YOU HAVE FOUR OR FIVE MONTHS TO COLLECT YOUR SIGNATURES.

IF YOU WANT TO RUN AS A INDEPENDENT YOU NEED 30,000 SIGNATURES.

BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE THE TWO PARTIES ARE ENTITLED TO RUN THE SYSTEM.

AND OUR ANSWER IS THEY ARE NOT DOING A GOOD JOB OF IT.

LESS THAN 10% OF THE PEOPLE ARE CHOOSING WHO THE DEMOCRAT IS GOING TO BE, AND LESS THAN 10% ARE CHOOSING THE REPUBLICAN.

AND HERE IS THE BOTTOM LINE, KEY, WE DON'T HAVE TO GET RID OF PARTIES, BUT THAT SHOULDN'T HAVE A VOICE THAT IS DISPROPORTIONATE TO THEIR SIZE.

THEY SHOULD NOT BE IN CHARGE OF OUR ELECTIONS.

>> PARTIES ARE OBVIOUSLY AGAINST THIS.

YOU CAN TELL BY THE INDEPENDENT REQUIREMENT THAT WAS PASSED.

THEY SAY PARTIES SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO EXIST, AND PARTY MEMBERS SHOULD BE THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO ALLOW PARTY CANDIDATES TO BE CHOSEN.

TED, DO THEY HAVE A POINT THERE?

>> WELL, IT'S A POINT I DISAGREE WITH.

THAT'S BASICALLY THE SOVIET-STYLE SYSTEM.

AND THAT'S NOT WHAT OUR FOUNDING FATHERS ENVISIONED, AND IT'S NOT SOMETHING WE HAVE TO LIVE WITH.

AND TO YOUR EARLIER POINT, WHY CAN'T WE JUST FIX THE PROBLEM IN THE GENERAL ELECTION?

YOU END UP WITH TWO CHOICES THAT CAN BE OFTEN -- BOTH MUTUALLY UNAPPEALING.

YOU MIGHT HAVE A FAR-LEFT CANDIDATE, AND A FAR-RIGHT CANDIDATE, AND YOU DON'T HAVE ANYBODY IN THE MIDDLE.

SO HOWEVER THE DISTRICT IS DRAWN TO FAVOR ONE PARTY OR THE OTHER, THAT PARTY IS GOING TO TYPICALLY WIN THAT -- THAT SEAT.

>> PAUL, YOU HAVE BEEN AROUND THE BLOCK, AND YOU HAVE SEEN ELECTIONS COME AND GO.

IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S MORE OF A PROBLEM NOW THAN IT HAS BEEN IN THE PAST.

>> IT ABSOLUTELY IS.

THE TWO PARTIES THAT ARE LEFT ARE BECOMING MORE IDEOLOGICALLY DISTILLED.

THE TWO-PARTY SYSTEM WASN'T CREATED BY OUR FOREFATHERS.

IT HAS EVOLVED.

I THINK PARTIES SHOULD HAVE A RIGHT TO EXIST, I JUST DON'T THINK THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO EXCLUDE THE PROCESS.

THAT'S NOT GOOD FOR A REPUBLIC.

AND IT CREATES A MUCH MORE NEGATIVE-BASED CAMPAIGN, BECAUSE YOU ARE ONLY GETTING THE TWO EXTREMES WHO ARE IN THE FIGHT.

>> RIGHT.

AND WE ALL KNOW NEGATIVE CAMPAIGNING SEEMS TO WORK IF YOU HAVE THESE CANDIDATES OUT THERE.

LET'S PIVOT TO DARK MONEY.

YOUR THOUGHTS, ESPECIALLY ON WHAT THE U.S. SUPREME COURT HAS SAID REGARDING THESE KINDS OF FUNDS?

>> I DON'T HAVE A POSITION ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.

MY FOCUS IS ON THE OPEN PRIMARY, AND PAUL CAN PROBABLY SPEAK MORE CLEARLY TO THAT.

I THINK IT IS DEFINITELY SOMETHING WE NEED TO PAY ATTENTION TO.

MY FOCUS IS REALLY ON OPEN NON-PARTISAN PRIMARIES.

>> ALL RIGHT.

LAST QUESTION FOR YOU, THEN, TED, WHAT CAN BE DONE TO CHANGE THIS?

>> THE FIRST THING WE NEED TO DO IS MAKE PEOPLE AWARE OF THE PROBLEM.

PAUL AND I WERE BROTH INVOLVED IN AN INITIATIVE IN 2012, AND WE SPENT ALL OF OUR MONEY, ALL OF OUR TREASURY, IF YOU WILL, FIGHTING LAWSUITS.

WE DID MAKE IT TO THE BALLOT AND DIDN'T HAVE ANY MONEY LEFT AT THE END, AND WE CAME AWAY FROM THAT WITH THE REALIZATION THAT PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN OUR ELECTION SYSTEM, AND HOW DYSFUNCTIONAL THE GOVERNMENT CAN BE AT TIMES.

SO THE FOCUS OF OUR GROUP IS TO TRY TO MAKE PEOPLE AWARE OF THAT RELATIONSHIP, AND WE DO HAVE THE POWER TO CHANGE THE SYSTEM.

THERE IS NOTHING IN THE CONSTITUTION THAT SAYS YOU CAN'T HAVE A REAL PRIMARY.

SO WE CAN MAKE THE CHANGE, AND ANYBODY WATCHING OR LISTENING, I URGE THEM TO TO GO TO OUR WEBSITE, AND THERE IS MUCH MORE INFORMATION THERE, AND IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO JOIN OUR EFFORTS, THERE'S LINKS THAT YOU CAN DO SO.

>> AND PAUL LAST WORD FOR YOU, ON DARK MONEY, AGAIN, IN LIGHT OF WHAT THE SUPREME COURT HAS RULED, HOW DO YOU HANDLE THIS?

>> ANYBODY SHOULD BE ABLE TO CONTRIBUTE.

THE PROBLEM WITH DARK MONEY IS YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE AN AMERICAN CITIZEN TO CONTRIBUTE.

THE KEY IS, WE OUGHT TO HAVE THE RIGHT TO KNOW WHO IS GIVING THAT MONEY.

AND THE SUPREME COURT -- ANTON SCALIA SAID, LOOK, HE SAID, DEMOCRACY OUGHT TO BE LIKE A TOWN SQUARE WHERE EVERYBODY COMES DOWN AND EXPRESSES THEIR VOICE.

WHEN YOU GIVE MONEY IN A DARK PROCESS, IT BECOMES MUCH EASIER TO ATTACK SOMEONE BECAUSE THERE IS NO ACCOUNTABILITY FOR IT.

ALL I HAVE BEEN SAYING ON THE DARK MONEY ISSUE IS EVERYBODY OUGHT TO HAVE THE RIGHT TO KNOW WHO IS CONTRIBUTING TO IT.

AND I THINK THE SUPREME COURT SUPREME COURT AGREES >> PAUL JOHNSON, TED HINDERACHER, THANK YOU BOTH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

TAKE CARE.

>>> AND THAT IS IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED HINDERACHER.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING.

>>> COMING UP IN THE NEXT HALF HOUR ON ARIZONA PBS, ON CRONKITE NEWS, HOW THE SPORT OF WRESTLING IS TAKING OFF.

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