>> Good evening and welcome to Arizona horizon.

I'm Ted Simons.

It's Friday and that means it's time for the journalist's roundtable and joining us are Jeremy Duda of Axios phoenix and bob Christie of the associated press didn't Laurie Roberts and we will start on the report of the audit and a lot of air quotes what did the attorney general, what was he looking for in.

>> Donald Trump's endorsement is what he's desperately looking for and looked so promising believing fraud was rampant in this election and sounded good and after the first page, it fizzled.

The vulnerabilities were theoretical ideas that maybe it some time could be a problem and didn't tie it to any problem in the 2020 election.

And the fraud that he talked about, which made some just, you know, giddy with glee if you read the footnote, nine individual instances of fraud, five or six in Pima county who were able to despite the fact they're felon and deceased mother's ballots and two, were registered republicans I don't know about the third one.

>> OK, bob, lots of questions and lots of concerns.

All of this and there were no indictments or charges and no arrests and what does this tell us?

>> This tells us that the attorney general spent six months looking for evidence of any crimes or of anything seriously wrong and found nothing.

What the report says is that, you know, as Laurie mentioned the fraud they spent time trying to figure out in the battle states and there's virtually none.

There's a few in each state and then looked at chain of custody and this is the big thing republicans are concerned about, chain of custody.

After the ballots are dropped off at the election's office or the city hall where they happen to have a dropbox, where there could have been a potential chance of somebody opening that box and messing with the ballots.

>> Yeah.

>> None of that is there and there's paperwork errors, but that's it.

>> And so, certification vulnerabilities that raise questions about the election and this is what the attorney general wrote, again, as we've heard and seems amorphous.

>> He claims the signature clarifications, he compare it to make sure you're the one voting.

They spend 4.6 seconds on the signature.

They don't tell us how they arrive at that and they have no idea and the county tells us and it's wrong and also he doesn't said why is that bad and what is the industry standard?

He claims it's a problem and now we need new laws to tighten up this process.

We have no idea if this is a problem for if the numbers are right.

>> Any evidence at all that election results were in any way, shape or form reversed, compromised, that Donald Trump really did win?

>> No, nothing there and I think the fact that he -- I don't know whether he did it or what, but he let -- this is not even a criminal investigation, which is, of course, what the conspiracy crew wanted.

This is a civil investigation looking for something.

He's got nothing other than theoretical ideas of something that went wrong and changes made in the law, some of which have been made.

>> He says the investigation is developing in material ways.

My question is, if it's going on, and we have an election coming up, shouldn't this be expedited and a sense of urgency?

If there's more there to investigate, what's there?

>> Of course.

I mean, he's had this report from the senate since September of last year, so six and a half months, give or take, with the full force of the power of the attorney general to investigate.

And you know, if that's not enough to get evidence that there were problems that needed to be fixed, then I don't know how look it should take.

In a civil investigation, you can mess around for a couple of years, but we're talking about the 2020 election and in late mid2022, almost, and he should have some facts.

And he really disappointed a lot of folks.

>> Reaction, jermy, bill gates, the county recorder, no new evidence, nothing no question the overall health of our electoral system.

I mean, in general, what kind of reaction did this report get?

Is anyone happy with this?

>> I think Karen Fann is happy.

>> Why?

>> Because she thinks this validates the alleged findings of the so-called audit but for everything else, there's Richard and everything else, the election, not fraudulent and believes this is just a bunch of misinformation aimed at bolstering his campaign because he's under a lot of pressure to find something that shows the election was rigged.

They feel this is throwing them a bone and the other silo that say, you know, this is nothing.

We want to see people get arrested and, you know, this is you trying to distract from the fact you're not doing your job.

On both sides, they agree this was just meant to help attorney general's campaign for senate.

>> The state senator Wendy Rogers used the term flacid.

>> She's never at a loss for words.

>> No, she's not.

The republican party, Arizona republican party said there was wide-spread fraud found in this report.

>> Yeah, they just flat out said the words, wide-spread fraud were found and it's just not there.

Kelly ward put that out not only as the republican party but herself and made a video about how there was wide-spread fraud found and it's just not true.

There were nine instances of fraud, which, I should mention, it's nine instances out of 3.4 million votes cast.

I'm surprised it's not more than that because in every election, you'll have problems.

>> Kelly ward did say her quote was perp walks and prosecution on the way.

>> We have seen this explosion of misinformation from the people who are drawing whatever conclusions they want and nowhere eluded to in that.

This was predictable.

We saw an interim report from Doug Logan, tens of thousands of ballots where they were sent in and no evidence they were sent out and took actual election experts to figure out where he went wrong, but that didn't stop Donald Trump from making the erroneous claim from a stage in phoenix.

>> But the real purpose of all of this is you have all of this misinformation and once it's out there and multiplies and it will end up in countless numbers of fundraising letters from politicians saying, I'm the only one whether I'm Wendy Rogers or Kelly ward or whoever I am, I'm the one to take care of election fraud and thousands of ballots that the attorney general found and people will send if their money.

It's working for a year and working well.

>> And it's bad for democracy.

We have an electorate up until 2020 was understood that elections were professionally run, that the amount of actual fraud -- this isn't back in the early 1900s.

This is modern election science and done by professionals who work in government.

Mine, they don't have a dog in the hunt.

These professionals have set up procedures and the legislature gives them the rules and they operate successfully and in this case, Donald Trump lost and this is what we get.

>> Speaking of Donald Trump, Jeremy, the last point, talking about reaction and there has been a lot of reaction and I think the one most reaction to attorney general Brnovich, has he had anything to say?

>> He has had things to say, what a sham it is that he hasn't indicted or punished anyone for rigging the election in Arizona and so I'm sure we'll hear from him because I'm not surprised we haven't yet.

>> The question is, what will hear?

>> I'm intrigued we haven't heard from Mr. trump because I figured we'd hear from him and, obviously, my colleagues and I were working on this story late into the evening and ready to update it when we got reaction and it never came.

The reason it didn't come because this is one of those where you read it and say, wow!

There was wide-spread fraud, but there wasn't any and Donald Trump is a guy who wants a headline and I don't think he knows were to think of it.

>> Let's go to something else that is difficult to understand, but apparently, the state Supreme Court won't worry about it right now.

This is this lawsuit to kill early voting, that it's not constitutional because, apparently, the constitution, the Arizona constitution didn't say you could do something like this.

Jeremy, what, the court said, first of all, don't bring it here first and that's pretty much it, right?

>> Yeah, I mean, this was a long shot in a couple of different ways and it was trying to bring it straight to the Arizona Supreme Court.

We have to figure this out immediately, law has been on the books for 31 years and there is to urgency for the past three decades.

You know, second of all, the court will say, we don't have the jurisdiction to take this directly and no factual record for us to decide and it will be a long shot but to the right court.

>> I think the Supreme Court did the party a favor.

Early volting is wildly popular in this state and more popular among republicans than it is anyone else.

So why would you want to put yourself in a position of telling voters, we're the party that wants you to stand in long lines on election day because we don't want you to vote from the convenience of your own kitchen and makes no sense why they would shoot themselves in the foot how an election day when they don't have to.

>> The republican party or the leadership of the republican party in this state or other states is convinced this is an issue that they can win on.

Donald Trump lost the election in their view because of fraud and malfeasance.

>> But is this political poison?

>> I don't know if voters will be that engaged on this issue, but it's extremely popular, and 89% of voters across the state cast 80 ballots and overall, this is extremely popular and do you want to tell your voters not to vote early, to take the chance that maybe you get stuck in a five-hour line like the presidential primary a few years ago?

>> There are some people who believe that because Donald Trump told people not to go to the polls early, that some people didn't show up and that might have helped in some of the states where he lost narrowly.

>> Let's go to a different poll, high ground public polls, republican primary, Carrie lake and the big winner was undecided at 45%.

>> The other big one is that Carrie lake isn't moving and a lot of belief to the same early voting is that her people want to get out of early volting, the majority do not.

But I do have to say that on the other side, you've got the same issue going on with Katie Hobbs and she, too, is only at 27%, 28% with 54% undecided.

So neither one are making their case to Arizona and you could say because it's early and the easier it will be and for Carrie lake, she doesn't have anything.

>> The interesting thing, Karen Taylor-Robson, she's spent $3.5 million on TV and Carrie lake runs an ad that runs once or twice and you have that 32, a little under ten in the lead for Carrie lake and robson, we have a poll from data orbital where numbers were better at 35% robson and 21.5 and data orbital and you've seen if robson moving the needle more and building up and cutting the lake lead and deciding that it's 23% which seems way too low and it's hard to say and difficult to say.

>> For the U.S. senate, that undecided is the highest, 58% and Brnovvich11% and undecided.

>> And I'll go back to what Laruie said, it's early and what you have paying attention is the core group, the 31% on Carrie lake and she's phenomenal in front of a group of people and people are coming out regularly that she's holding at, like, a rodeo grounds out in northwest of phoenix.

But people aren't yet engaged and they've been hammered for months now with Jim Lehman ads.

The one thing that did come out of the poll this week is that Mark Kelly is doing well.

>> Mark Kelly leads any republican challenger and put one in there and leads by four points and only 12% undecided and that seems like people have figured it out more and back to the other races, it has to be concerning to Democrats that Katie Hobbs is not getting any better numbers than that.

>> She's the frontrunner and damaged by some of the things with Adams' case and other missteps.

And this week, she didn't do any favors and I think later which is title 42.

>> Let's talk about that and title 42 is this public health measure put in place and it's been around forever but the Trump Administration used to keep people from coming into the people for health concerns and the Biden Administration wants to end this May 23rd saying it's no longer necessary, the pandemic is easing and two Arizona senators are saying not so fast.

>> It would be political suicide to say, yeah, let's open up and allow more people to come when we've had more people coming over.

They're not dumb, but right to show caution here.

The border has been a disaster for a long time.

It got worse, arguably speaking, under President Biden.

They've shown no evidence they are capable of processing people in an orderly fashion because the laws are so antiquated and now you want to open it up to more people?

Senator Sinema and Kelly are saying shouldn't there be a process in place?

>> Mark Kelly, obviously, came out and says, get something in place.

The Biden Administration says it has certain procedures in place to address this issue and seems, again, vague and is in the kind of thing that could really be a major factor against Mark Kelly?

>> If he went the other way, it could and the Biden Administration can put some kind of plan in place to deal with the expected surge at the border and Mark Kelly can really a poll and see the political climate in this year and this is an issue which is a winner for republican.

Had he not gone this way, I many, he would have been pummeled with it.

Story pitches opposes title 42.

>> All we had to do look back four years to David Garcia and more than anything was the border and the governor, governor Ducey's folks got him on tape with illegal immigration and I forgot what he did.

>> Imagine no border.

>> And boy, that was the end of him.

It was the end.

[ Laughter ] >> In Arizona, if you're going to win in Arizona, you have to understand that the border is a real issue.

>> With that said, is this a tin ear from the Biden Administration?

>> Completely tin ear, in my opinion.

But if I were the president, I would have done whatever I could to delay this issue until after the November election and we talked earlier how the republicans shoot themselves in the foot by ending early voting.

They're essentially saying coming in and apply for asylum and going into the country.

>> The foot on a much more potent issue.

>> The asylum issue is a mess.

The system is set up if you have a legitimate fear of persecution in your home country, you can present yourself and say, please save me and put you through a process.

If everybody says -- everybody who is leaving for economic reasons says I deserve asylum for political reasons, for persecution reasons, that makes the whole asylum system a mess, which is where we're at.

>> Where we're at is almost out of time and I want to get to Congressman Paul Gosar who is apparently distancing himself from white nationalists.

>> This is a year of cozying up and now he put out on social media he won't be a speaker at a conference for white nationalists then came out and said, oh, no, that's a mistake and I don't know where they got my name and promoting it.

So who knows where he stands.

>> One events was on Hitler's birthday, which was charming.

>> They say that was a mistake.

>> Everything is a mistake.

>> What is going on?

Is he feeling pressure or is this what.

>> Maybe you have to wonder why as opposed to two months ago, this video he recorded for this America first pack event with Nick Fuentes, which the video was general, that was a mistake and not for that event but for a different one and says, specifically saying distancing himself from this person.

But trying to reach him and you can't and Nick has a problem with his mouth and that's a strange way to put it.

The problem isn't his mouth but the beliefs he has which both people find as completely appalling and it's a big question, why was he with this guy in the first place.

He went to the same event with the same guy.

>> Congressman Gosar is consistently saddling up to this wing of -- not the republican party, this far-white supremacits wing of independence.

It's a bad long and I think he doesn't care because he can't lose this race, right?

He's going to win no matter what happens.

He's be Congressman this time next year.

But it's unseemly for a democracy to have your politicians doing that.

>> I don't know what he recognizes.

This group -- Nick Fuentes says his goal is to yank his party to the right further than it is and praised Congressman Gosar by agreeing to do fundraisers and by cozying up to these people and they feel like Gosar gives an error of legitimacy.

And, in fact, in that wing of the party, he does.

>> And the excuses, the explanations, do they have an error of legitimacy?

Someone else got this wrong and that wrong and Hitler's birthday.

It seems like who's running the ship over this?

>> Hard to say.

The video went to the wrong group and that was two months ago.

It was censured because it's the same event.

This is such a consistent trend with Congressman Gosar.

It was a mistake and generally, he's defiant and either a mistake or defiant and keeps happening over and over again and is it a mistake?

>> He's responsible and the boss in his office and making decisions.

Whether he tries to blame it on someone else or not, he's the elected official and we've talked about that at this roundtable before.

>> Yeah, yeah.

Any closing thoughts on that?

>> It doesn't matter what he says because he's landed himself in a district that is so Jerrymandered and one of the safest districts in the state and I know he'll have competition and I expect him to win in a landslide and cozying up to these people.

>> We'll stop it delight.

And jermy, congratulations on Axios phoenix.

And that is it for now and thank you for joining us.

I'm Ted Simons and you have a great weekend!

Coming up in the next half hour on Arizona PBS, a Maricopa county fair is back after a two-year break and on break it down, the contributions of World War I and World War II co-talkers.

>> Coming up, a fight for change and how advocates for the LGBTQ expect are working to combat bladder restrictions and the Maricopa county fair returns after canceled for two years because of the pandemic.

>> We learn more about the World War I and World War II coworkers and the impact they had.