♪ COMING UP NEXT ON ARIZONA HORIZON.

IT'S THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

WE'LL LOOK AT THE WEEK'S TOP STORIES, INCLUDING THE ARIZONA SUPREME COURT'S LANDMARK RULING THAT ALLOWS FOR A BAN ON NEARLY ALL ABORTIONS IN THE STATE.

THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE IS NEXT, ON ARIZONA HORIZON.

GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO ARIZONA HORIZON.

I'M TED SIMONS.

IT'S FRIDAY AND THAT MEANS IT'S TIME FOR ANOTHER EDITION OF THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

JOINING US TONIGHT... CAMRYN SANCHEZ OF KJZZ RADIO.

HOWIE FISCHER OF CAPITOL MEDIA SERVICES.

AND MARY JO PITZL OF THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC AND AZCENTRAL.COM.

PATCH, GOOD TO HAVE YOU ALL HERE, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

CAM RIHN WE'RE GOING TO START WITH YOU.

LET'S START MAYBE WITH THE SUPREME COURT AND THE ABORTION RULING.

WHAT DO YOU SAY?

THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF DEBATE ABOUT WHAT TWO ABORTIONS LAWS TAKE PRECEDENCE.

BUT IT SAYS PRETTY SPECIFICALLY THAT IT DOESN'T TAKE PRECEDENCE, SO KIND OF MAKES SENSE FROM A LOUISVILLE'S STANDPOINT, UNLESS YOU'VE BEEN LIVING UNDER A ROCK, I WAS GONNA SAY, BUT YOU MAY HAVE NOTICED ON THE NEWS OVER THE PAST WEEK THAT ARIZONA HAS A NEW ABORTION BAN, PRETTY COMPREHENSIVE, EXCEPT FOR THE LIFE OF THE MOTHER, ABORTION IS GONNA BE BASICALLY OUTLAWED COMPLETELY, AND THAT'S FROM AN 1864 LAW.

SO QUITE OLD.

>> AND HOWIE, AGAIN, THE 2022 LAW DID NOT EXPRESSLY REPEAL THE OLD LAW.

SO WHAT -- I MEAN, WHAT WERE THE SUPREME COURT JUSTICES SUPPOSED DO?

>> YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER, THE 2022 LAW WAS NEVER MEANT TO A 15-WEEK LAW.

THAT WAS BEFORE THEY OVERTURNED ROE V. WADE WITH THE DOBBS DECISION.

IT WAS A CASE BEFORE THE SUPREME COURT OUT OF MISSISSIPPI, WHICH HAD A 15 WEEK LAW, AND THEY SAID, LOOK, WE WANT TO BE READY IF THE COURT UPHOLDS THE 15-WEEK LAW SO WE WILL PUT THIS IN.

NO TRIGGER OR ANYTHING ELSE, BUT THE IDEA IS IT WOULD BE THERE.

THE SUPREME COURT AS WE KNOW AND DOBBS SAYS, OH, JUST GET RID OF ROE AND EVERYTHING ELSE, AND THAT I THINK CAUGHT EVERYONE BY SURPRISE.

WHAT THE -- THAT THEY SAID IN TERMS OF WHY THEY THOUGHT IT OVERWHELMED THE OLDER LAW, THEY SAID IT WAS INHERENT WHEN YOU ADOPT A NEW LAW, THE OLD ONE GOES AWAY.

IN FACT, GOVERNOR DUG DOOCEY WHEN HE SIGNED THAT LAW, HE SAID I BELIEVE THE NEW LAW OVERRULED THE NEW LAW.

>> THEN WHY DON'T YOU PUT IT IN THERE.

EXPLAIN PLEASE.

>> YEAH, I THINK AS WE'VE NOW LEARNED, YOU BETTER DARN WELL IF THAT'S WHAT YOU BELIEVE, YOU BETTER PUT THAT -- YOU BETTER ACT ON THAT BECAUSE IT DOES -- IT GAVE THE JUSTICE SYSTEM, I MEAN, THEY READ IT STRICTLY BY THE LAW, AND THEY SAY IT -- DIDN'T REPEAL IT.

WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO?

>> AND THE GOVERNOR CAME OUT AND SAID THAT IS, QUOTE, NOT WHAT I INTENDED.

>> OH, YOU MEAN GOVERNOR DUCEY.

>> RIGHT, FORMER GOVERNOR DUCEY WHO SIGNED THE BILL, BECAUSE OF WHAT -- IT'S HOW HE SAID IT BECAUSE THAT'S NOT HOW HE VIEWED IT.

HE THOUGHT THIS WOULD JUST BE -- THAT THIS WOULD SWEEP ASIDE THE -- >> THIS IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF GOVERNORS NOT READING WHAT THEY SIGN.

WHAT PART OF THE LAW DID HE SIGN, WHICH SAID THIS DOES NOT ATTAR ANY OTHER TITLE ON ABORTION AND SPECIFICALLY THE 1864 LAW WHICH SAID ABORTION ONLY TO SAVE THE LIFE OF THE MOTHER.

I THINK EVERYBODY SORT OF WENT, WELL, THIS IS WHAT WE THINK IT MEANS.

YOU DON'T MAKE LAW THAT WAY.

>> AND CAMRYN, THE JUSTICES ALSO SAID THAT THERE WAS NO -- THE LEGISLATURE DIDN'T CREATE A RIGHT TO ABORTION RIGHTS.

IN OTHER WORDS, THEY DID NOT CREATE A RIGHT TO ABORTION, THEY SAID THAT ALONG WITH YOU DIDN'T REPEAL THE PREVIOUS ONE.

AGAIN, WHAT WERE THESE JUSTICES SUPPOSED TO DO?

I GUESS EXACTLY WHAT THEY DID DO.

BUT.

THERE'S ACCUSATIONS OF, YOU KNOW, CONSERVATIVE EXTREMISM BUT THE 2022 LAW, IT'S NOT VERY COMPLICATED.

THEY DIDN'T PUT A LOT IN THERE.

IT'S PRETTY SHORT AND WE ALL WROTE ABOUT IT AT THE TIME, IF ROE V. WADE GETS OVERCHARGED, IF WE HAVE THESE ON THE BOOKS, THIS ONE SAYS IT DOESN'T SUPERSEDE THE OTHER ONE.

>> AND THE COURT DID SAY PUT A 14-DAY STAY -- 14 DAYS BY THE COURT, THERE'S A 45-DAY DELAY FROM BERNOVICH BACK WHEN HE WAS ATTORNEY GENERAL.

>> RIGHT.

I THINK THERE'S STILL SOME DEBATE ABOUT THIS, BUT CLEARLY THE SUPREME COURT SAID THIS WILL NOT TAKE EFFECT UNTIL 14 CALENDAR DAYS AFTER OUR RULING, WHICH THEIR RULING WAS ON TUESDAY.

SO DO THE MATH.

BUT THERE WAS A DECISION AND AN AGREEMENT THAT FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL BREN 75 AND PLANNED PARENTHOOD REACHED BACK IN 2022, I I BELIEVE, THAT SAID ANY ENFORCEMENT AN 1864 LAW WOULD BE STAYED OR DELAYED FOR 45 DAYS.

SOME PEOPLE ARE ADDING 14 DAYS AND 45 DAYS.

OTHERS ARE ARGUING THAT IT'S 14 DAYS ONLY.

OTHERS ARE SAYING, NO, THE 14 IS PART OF THE 45.

AND THAT IS -- I DON'T KNOW IF WE'RE GONNA NEED ANOTHER LAWSUIT TO STRAIGHTEN THAT OUT.

>> WHAT'S IMPORTANT IS WHY THE COURT GAVE THEM 14 DAYS.

THE JUSTICES SAID THERE WERE SOME OTHER ISSUES THAT WERE FIRST RAISED.

THIS CASE GOES BACK TO 1972 WHEN PLANNED PARENTHOOD WENT TO COURT WITH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL OVER THE 1864 LAW.

THE TRIAL COURT AT THAT TIME SAID THE 1864 LAW IS ILLEGAL.

THE COURT OF APPEALS SAID IT'S NOT, AND THEN ROE V. WADE CAME DOWN AND ALL OF THESE OTHER ISSUES WERE LEFT ON THE TABLE.

BUT WHAT THE JUSTICES ARE DOING FOR THE PLAINTIFFS, FOR PLANNED PARENTHOOD, FOR CHRIS MAIZE AND, YOU KNOW, EVERYONE ELSE IS SAYING, LOOK, THERE ARE ISSUES OUT THERE.

IS IT EQUAL PROTECTION?

ARE DOCTORS PROPERLY INFORMED OF WHAT WILL GET THEM IN TROUBLE?

DOES THIS VIOLATE ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION?

ONE OF THE OTHER ARGUMENTS THAT'S STILL ON THE STABLE WHETHER OR NOT THE LAW DISCRIMINATES AGAINST POOR WOMEN BECAUSE RICH WOMEN CAN ALWAYS GET IN THEIR CAR AND GO TO CALIFORNIA BUT POOR WOMEN CAN'T.

>> COULD NOT THE COURT HAVE SAID YES, THERE ARE CONSTITUTIONAL ISSUES HERE AT PLAY.

THEY NEED TO BE FIGURED OUT.

WE'RE NOT GOING TO LET THIS GO ANY FURTHER UNTIL THEY ARE FIGURED OUT AS OPPOSED TO SAYING, LET'S LET IT GO FURTHER.

>> I THINK WHAT THE COURT DOESN'T WANT THIS BLEEDING FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME, THEY SAID -- THEY'LL SET A DEADLINE, FOR 14 DAYS OR 60, DEPENDING ON HOW YOU ADD IT UP, DOES NOT MEAN THERE HAS TO BE A RULING.

WHAT HAPPENED IS WHO'S THE ATTORNEY FOR PLANNED PARENTHOOD WOULD HAVE TO PRESENT A SUFFICIENT ARGUMENT, THIS GOES BACK TO KELLY JOHNSON, THE LATEST COUNTY JUDGE WHO HANDLED IT AND SAY, LOOK, WE HAVE SUFFICIENT ARGUMENT HERE.

WILL YOU STAY THE LAW.

AND THE TRIAL JUDGE IS EMPOWERED TO STAY THE LAW AGAIN.

SO WHAT HAPPENS IN 14 DAYS OR 60 DAYS DEPENDS ON WHETHER, YOU KNOW -- AND YOU HAVE TO CONVINCE JUDGE JOHNSON THERE'S ENOUGH HERE TO KEEP IT FROM GOING INTO EFFECT.

>> AND ONCE IT DOES GO INTO EFFECT, 14, 59, HIKE, THAT KIND OF THING.

THE GOVERNOR HAS BASICALLY SAID COUNTY ATTORNEYS LAY OFF, ATTORNEY GENERAL IT'S ALL YOURS, AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SAYS I DON'T WANT ANY PART OF IT.

>> SHE'S A DEMOCRAT, SHE'S NEVER, EVER GOING TO PROSECUTE IT MUCH TO THE CONSTERNATION OF SOME REPUBLICANS BUT THERE'S A QUESTION OF ENFORCEMENT.

SO IF AND WHEN IT BECOMES LAW IN 14 DAYS, WHATEVER MANY DAYS IT BECOMES LAW, IT'S A MATTER OF IF SOMEONE PROSECUTES AND GOES AFTER A DOCTOR, BECAUSE UNDER THE LAW IT'S THE DOCTOR WHO COULD BE PUNISHABLE FOR TWO TO FIVE YEARS IN PRISON AT THE MAX.

>> WILL THE COUNTY ATTORNEYS TAKE ACTION?

WILL THEY ENFORCE -- I THINK AT LEAST ONE OR TWO OF THEM HAVE COME OUT AND SAID WE DON'T WANT TO.

>> AND THE COUNTY ATTORNEYS WHO HAVE SPOKEN HAVE ALSO NOTED THAT SINGS THE -- THEY HAVEN'T HAD ANYBODY COMING TO THEIR OFFICES LIKE EVEN WITH THE 15-WEEK BAN THAT WAS PASSED TWO YEARS AGO, WITH AN ENFORCEMENT COMPLAINT.

NOW, THE PROFILE ON ALL OF THIS HAS BEEN RAISED MASSIVELY.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE SAYING WELL, I HAVEN'T HEARD FROM ANYBODY, MAYBE SOMEBODY WILL COME KNOCKING AT THEIR DOOR, AND THAT WILL RAISE TWO QUESTIONS, IF A COUNTY ATTORNEY DECIDES TO TRY TO PROSECUTE, THEN THAT'S GOING TO GET CROSS WIRED WITH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, AND WE'LL SEE WHAT KIND OF THING ENSUES.

>> AND THAT IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE THERE IS A LAW ON THE BOOKS.

IN FACT, IT WAS USED BY RAUL CASTRO WHEN HE WAS GOVERNOR -- IT ALLOWS THE GOVERNOR TO DIRECT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL TO PROSECUTE ANY CASE IN WHICH THE STATE IS A PARTY.

CRIMINAL CASE IN A STATE IS A PARTY.

THE PROBLEM IS IT DOES NOT SAY IN THERE THAT ALSO STRIPS THE COUNTY ATTORNEYS OF THEIR POWER.

AND WHEN I TALKED TO CHRIS MAIZE ABOUT IT, HE SAYS THAT'S INHERENT.

NOTHING IS INHERENT IN THE LAWS AS WE'RE SITTING AROUND TALKING ABOUT WHAT THE LAW SAYS AND NOT AND AT SOME POINT AN ATTORNEY WILL.

I DON'T KNOW IF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FROM YAVAPAI COUNTY WILL HAVE A CASE BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW IF ANY ABORTIONS ARE BEING PERFORMED THERE.

>> AND RACHEL MITCHELL WAS NOT HAPPY WITH THE EXECUTIVE ORDER AS WELL.

>> BUT WHAT SHE'S WILLING TO DO ABOUT IT, SHE HAS BEEN A LITTLE ALL OVER THE BOARD IN TERMS OF DO WANT TO, DON'T WANT TO, THE LATEST STATEMENT WAS I'M GOING TO FOCUS ON PRIORITY CASES AND DANGEROUS PEOPLE AND FENTENYL AND NOT SAYING SHE WON'T BUT NOT SAYING SHE WILL.

>> AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT, YOU KNOW, ENFORCEMENT, WHEN WILL WE HAVE A LAW THAT, YOU KNOW, CAN BE ENFORCED THE ABORTION PROVIDERS, THE CARE PROVIDERS ARE SAYING, WE'RE GOING TO -- AT LEAST PLANNED PARENTHOOD SAID THEY'LL BE OPEN FOR AMENT IN OF WEEKS.

IT'S NOT PRECISE, BUT THE WAY THE 1864 LAW IS WRITTEN, ANYBODY WHO AIDS WITH AN ABORTION FACES THREE TO FIVE YEARS PRISON.

WHAT I'M HEARING IS THAT MEDICAL PROVIDERS ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE THAT RISK.

THAT COULD SHUT THINGS DOWN RIGHT AWAY.

IT WON'T NEED ENFORCEMENT BECAUSE THE PENALTY WILL LIMIT THEM.

>> AND THAT'S THE POINT, IS IF YOU'RE NOT SURE THAT THE GOVERNOR'S ORDER, AND CHRIS MAIZE'S ASSURANCES ARE ENOUGH, OR THAT SHE HAS SUPERVISORY AUTHORITY, THEY'RE NOT GONNA SAY, OH, I'M WILLING TO RISK GOING TO PRISON FOR FIVE YEARS.

>> THIS OBVIOUSLY WAS A BOMBSHELL AND THEN WE HAD THE LEGISLATURE'S SESSION IN WHICH THIS WAS ADDRESSED IN WHICH OTHER LITTLE -- OTHER LITTLE BOMBS EXPLODED.

>> WELL, THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE TOOK UP THE ISSUE WHEN THEY CAME ON TO THE FLOOR IN A FEW DIFFERENT WAYS.

SO THE DEMOCRATS WANT A REPEAL OF THE LAW, ALL ACROSS THE BOARD, COMPLETELY.

THE REPUBLICANS, THERE WAS SOME BACK AND FORTH.

SOME OF THE REPUBLICANS SAID THIS IS GREAT NEWS.

WE ABSOLUTELY ARE 100% PRO-LIFE.

THIS IS WHAT WE'VE WANTED.

ANYONE WHO SAYS OTHERWISE IS A RHINO AND A LIAR AND EVERYTHING ELSE.

BUT THEN THERE WERE SOME REPUBLICANS, ESPECIALLY IN THE CONFEDERATE DISTRICTS WHO SAID, HEY, WHOA.

THIS IS A LITTLE TOO FAR.

I DON'T SUPPORT THIS.

MAYBE WE SHOULD TALK ABOUT A REPEAL.

AND THEN IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE'S FIRST, THEY TRIED BRING THE DEMOCRATS, YOU KNOW, A BILL TO THE FLOOR THAT WOULD REPEAL THE TOTAL BAN ON ABORTION AND THE REPUBLICANS DECIDED NOT TO HEAR IT.

THEY DECIDED TO ADJOURN FOR A WEEK INSTEAD, AND THEN THE SAME THINGS WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IN THE SENATE.

IT'S A LITTLE COMPLICATED PROCEDURAL THINGS, BUT BASICALLY, THERE WAS A MOTION TO ADJOURN IN THE SENATE AND AS I WAS IN THE PROCESS OF DOING, THAT THE DEMOCRATS ARE SAYING POINT OF ORDER.

YOU KNOW, WITH VERY A MOTION WE'RE TRYING TO INTRODUCE, WE WANT YOU TO STOP, AND THEY JUST SORT OF DID IT OVER THEIR OBJECTIONS.

>> AND WAS IT MATT GRESS THAT WAS INVOLVED IN A LOT OF THIS?

>> YEAH.

SKIPPED OVER THE GOOD PART FOR THE HOUSE.

>> I STAYED FOR YOU.

>> SO IN THE HOUSE IT WAS SORT OF A RACE TO SEE WHO WAS GOING TO HIT THE BUTTON FIRST TO GET CALLED ON.

THE REPUBLICAN MATT GRESS I GUESS WON THAT RATE OVER STEPHANIE STAHL HAMILTON, THE DEMOCRAT, WHO ACTUALLY HAS A BILL THAT SHE WROTE THAT WOULD REPEAL THE 1864 LAW.

NEVER WENT ANYWHERE DURING THE SESSION.

BUT GRESS GOT TO THE MIC FIRST, MADE IN MOTION TO SET THIS IN PROCESS.

HIS GUY SITTING NEXT TO HIM, REPRESENTATIVE LIVINGSTON, STANDS UP IMMEDIATELY AND CALLS FOR A RECESS.

WE PUT ON PAUSE, AND YOU KNOW, THIS HE HAVE A VOTE ON THAT.

AND THEN -- THEY RECESS.

AND THEN ALL HECK BREAKS LOOSE WITH DEMOCRATS GOING PARTICULARLY AFTER GRESS BECAUSE THEY CHARGE THAT HE VOTED TO RECESS, WHICH YOU HAVEN'T IT BOTH WAYS.

YOU WANT THIS BILL TO GET DEBATED TODAY OR -- NOW YOU WANT TO HOLD IT UP.

HE SAYS THAT THEY -- NO, HE VOTED NO.

MORE TO COME ON THAT, AND IT BECAME THIS BIG SCRUM, THE DEMOCRATS -- IT WAS A DISPLAY OF DESCENT I HAVEN'T SEEN IN THE HOUSE I DON'T KNOW LIKE EVER, LOUD AND CALLING OUT NAMES, POINTING.

>> YES.

>> VERY DISRUPTIVE.

IT WAS AFTER THEY HAD GONE INTO RECESS, SO DIDN'T DISRUPT THEIR ORDERLY PROCESS.

AND THEN LATER AFTER EVERYTHING SETTLES DOWN, THEY CAME BACK, SAW HAMILTON, MADE HER MOTION TO BRING HER BILL TO THE FLOOR AND THEN HE ADJOURNED AND WE'LL SEE WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN ON WEDNESDAY.

>> WHAT'S IMPORTANT IS IN TERMS OF THE GRESS AND THE MOTION, THIS IS A VERBAL MOTION TO RECESS.

I HAVE LOOKED AT THE VERY GRAINY VIDEOTAPE.

HE INSISTS HE DID NOT VOTE TO RECESS.

THE DEMS SAY HE DID.

AT THIS POINT, I'VE GOTTA TAKE HIM AT HIS WORD.

BUT THE OTHER PROBLEM THEY'RE HAVING WITH HIM IS HE WAS ALSO -- SPONSORED A COUPLE OF BILLS THAT COULD BE CONSIDERED PERSONAL BILLS.

FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU ARE PREGNANT, YOU GET TO DRIVE IN THE HOV LANE.

>> THAT'S MY FAVORITE.

>> YOU KNOW, BECAUSE, HEY, LOOK, I'M PREGNANT, OFFICER.

OR THERE'S ANOTHER ONE THAT SAYS RIGHT NOW THERE'S A TAX CREDIT AVAILABLE IF YOU HAVE A CHILD.

HE WANTS TO BACKDATE IT TO THE DATE OF THE PREGNANCY.

AND THE POINT THAT YOU DETERMINE A FETUS IS A PURPOSE FOR TAX LAW OR TRAFFIC LAW, NOW YOU'VE OPENED THE DOOR.

>> THE DEMOCRATS ARE DOWN STILL A SEAT IN THE HOUSE, CORRECT?

>> YES.

>> UNTIL I GUESS NEXT WEEK.

>> TERRIBLE TIMING FOR THEM.

>> YEAH, HOW DID THAT PLAY INTO ALL THAT HAVE.

>> WELL, REPRESENTATIVE KEY OWN NECESSARY LITERALLY HAD LEFT I THINK THE DAY BEFORE.

JUST -- >> THE WEEK BEFORE.

>> THE WEEK BEFORE HE HAD JUST RESIGNED EARLY, KIONNEZ.

RUMOR HAS IT HE DID IT BECAUSE HE THOUGHT HE COULD BE APPOINTED TO CITY COUNCIL AND THEN HE DIDN'T GET IT SO A DOUBLE BUMMER FOR HIM.

AND THEN THE WHOLE PROCESS, THEY FAILED IT BY ONE PERSON, SO HE MAY BE FEELING BAD ABOUT IT RIGHT NOW.

>> WELL, ANOTHER FACT OF WORK HERE WHICH HAS TO DO WITH DAVID COOKE.

DAVID WAS THE LAST PERSON TO VOTE ON THE ISSUE OF WHETHER THEY SHOULD ADJOURN.

HE ACTUALLY HAS SAID PUBLICALLY ZERO WEEKS MAKES NO SENSE.

I HAVE TALKED TO MY CONSTITUENTS.

I HAVE TALKED TO PEOPLE.

15 WEEKS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT MAKES MORE SENSE.

BUT AT THE LAST MINUTE HE SAID, WELL, I'M GOING TO VOTE FOR LEADERSHIP.

LEADERSHIP SAYS WE WANT TO DISCUSS IT DEEPER.

WE WANT TO HAVE, YOU KNOW, FURTHER MEETINGS AND FIGURE OUT WHERE WE GO FROM HERE, WHICH IS WHY WE'RE SITTING HERE ON A FRIDAY NIGHT NOT KNOWING WHAT'S COMING UP WHEN THEY COME BACK ON WEDNESDAY.

>> THAT'S WHAT LEADERSHIP IS SAYING NOW, BUT I SEEM TO RECALL, AND MAYBE THE REPORTS WEREN'T FACTUAL OR MADE IT UP IN MY MIND BUT SPEAKER TOMAH ORIGINALLY SAID -- THE IDEA WAS HE WASN'T EVEN GOING TO BRING THIS UP FOR A VOTE.

>> WELL, I THINK THE FACT THAT -- HE DID.

>> BUT HE WASN'T PLANNING ON IT.

>> HE DIDN'T.

>> BUT HE WASN'T PLANNING ON IT.

>> I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT BUT CLEARLY THEY SAW IT COMING BECAUSE LIVINGSTON WAS READY RIGHT AWAY AS SOON AS GRESS CALLED FOR A MOTION FOR A RECESS.

>> WHEN DEMOCRATS SAY IT WAS STAGED, DO THEY HAVE A POINT?

>> WELL, THE WHOLE THING ABOUT WE NEED MORE TIME TO THINK ABOUT WHAT THE LAW SAYS, THE LAW THAT'S BEEN AROUND SINCE 1864, I DON'T THEY THEY FOUND THAT VERY COMPELLING.

THE DEMOCRATS AT LEAST FOR THE LAST SIX YEARS CONSECUTIVELY HAVE INTRODUCED BILLS TO TRY TO REPEAL THAT LAW.

IT'S SO BEEN SOMETHING THEY'VE TRIED TO DISCUSS AND BRING UP.

SO AGAIN, WHAT THEY SEE IS AS AN EXCUSE, WE NEED MORE TIME TO TALK ABOUT IT, TO THINK ABOUT IT, THAT WASN'T REALLY GOING TO FLY.

WITH ARIZONA RIGHT NOW, IT FEELS LIKE WE'RE STILL THE POINT OF THE TURNING WORLD, LIKE EVERYBODY IS WATCHING US.

THIS IS PRETTY SHOCKING.

STATE LAWMAKERS HAVE BEEN BLASTED ON NATIONAL NEWS, MAYBE EVEN INTERNATIONAL NEWS, GRESS INPARTICULAR AND, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE TO SEEMINGLY DO SOMETHING OR SAY SOMETHING.

>> AND IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE WHEN WE TALK ABOUT MATT GRESS AND EVEN DAVID COOKE, THIS REIN COMPETITIVE RACES.

COOKE IS RUNNING AGAINST WENDY ROGERS IN A PRIMARY FOR THE STATE SENATE.

I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH HIS POSITION MIGHT, YOU KNOW, WORK INTO THE CALCULUS ON HIS PRIMARY RACE.

AND GRESS IS IN ONE OF THE BATTLEGROUND DISTRICTS IN THE STATE THAT COULD DETERMINE DOES THE LEGISLATURE GO -- REMAIN REPUBLICAN OR GO DEMOCRAT.

SO'S REPUBLICAN AND HE'S IN A SWING DISTRICT AND HE IS ON A HOT SEAT.

>> I THINK PART OF WHAT IS OCCURRING -- I'M NOT HERE TO DEFEND MR. TOMAH OR ANYBODY ELSE BUT DOING A LITTLE BIT OF THIS, WHAT WORKS?

WHAT CAN WE GET AWAY WITH?

IT MAY NOT BE 15 WEEKS.

MAYBE IT'S SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

ISSUES OF RAPE, INCEST, THINGS LIKE THAT.

ISSUES OF PRIVACY.

AND AT THE SAME TIME, WHAT YOU ALSO HAVE HANGING OVER IT IS WHAT DO PEOPLE WANT.

ARIZONANS -- NOT ALL, BUT MANY ARIZONANS SEEM QUITE HAPPY WITH THE LAW BEFORE ROE WAS OVERTURNED, WHICH IS POINT OF LIABILITY, 22 TO 24 WEEKS.

DO THEY WANT TO PUT THAT BEFORE VOTERS, OR DO THEY WANT TO PUT THEIR OWN ALTERNATIVE ON THE BALLOT GIVEN THAT THAT EXPANDED ONE IS PROBABLY GOING TO MAKE IT.

>> I WAS GONNA SAY, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE FALLOUT HERE, AND WE'LL START WITH YOU CAMRYN.

DID ARIZONA TURN A BLUR SHADE OF PURPOSEWELL THAT ONE DECISION?

>> THAT'S WHAT THE RUMOR IS, BUT THIS IS THE DAY THAT ARIZONA HAS TURNED BLUE.

WELL, PLANNED PARENTHOOD AND OTHER GROUPS HAVE BEEN CLUCKING SIGNATURES ON THE -- FOR A WHILE NOW TO GET A LAW FOR A LONGER TIMELINE, IT'S GOT A LOT OF SUPPORT AND PRETTY MUCH A SURE THING.

IT'LL BE ON THE BALLOT IN NOVEMBER, AND THERE'S GREAT CONCERN IN THIS VERY COMPETITIVE RACE A LOT OF DEMOCRATS WILL TURN OUT, ESPECIALLY FOR THAT PARTICULAR MEASURE.

AND NOW THAT THIS IS ALL IN THE NEWS AND EVERYTHING'S BEEN ABOUT ABORTION LATELY, THEN THE REPUBLICANS ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT AND THAT'S WHY YOU SEE THE SHIFTING AND CHANGING OF STATEMENTS.

>> IT'S GOING TO BE TRICKY BECAUSE AGAIN WHERE IS THAT LINE IN THERE?

I THINK EVERYBODY HAS A VIEW OF WHEN DOES QUOTE/UNQUOTE LIFE BEGIN.

IS IT WHEN THE EGG IS FERTILIZED?

WELL, THAT'S A VERY EXTREME SITUATION.

DOES LIFE NOT BEGIN UNTIL THE BABY IS BORN?

NOW THEY'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT ARIZONANS WANT, AND ONE OF THE ISSUES WITH THIS INITIATIVE THAT THEY'VE TAKEN UP IS THEY NOTE THAT, YES, IT'S A POINT OF LIABILITY, BUT THEN THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS IN THERE BEYOND THAT, NOT JUST FOR THE LIFE OF THE MOTHER BUT THE MENTAL HEALTH OF THE MOTHER, AND THEY'RE SAYING THAT CAN BE ABUSE.

AND THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT -- >> I WILL SAY THE POLITICAL FIGURES WHO JUMPED OUT QUICKLY AND SAID THIS LAW'S GOTTA GO, YOU KNOW, IT'S BAD, EVEN KARI LAKE IS NOW TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOTTA REPEAL THIS, WE'VE GOTTA FIND A MORE REASONABLE LAW.

BUT THERE IS CONCERN BEYOND THESE PEOPLE THAT ARE IN COMPETITIVE RACES, YOU KNOW, WHAT KIND OF EFFECT IT THIS HAS ALL THE WAY UP TO THE TOP OF THE BALLOT.

WE HEARD TRUMP COME OUT THIS WEEK AND SAY, OH YEAH, THAT ARIZONA LAW WENT TOO FAR, AND I'M SURE THE GOVERNOR AND EVERYBODY WILL SORT IT ALL OUT.

>> PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN ON THE RECORD A MILLION TIMES SAYING I'M 100% PRO-LIFE.

I SUPPORT IT.

ABORTION IS EVIL, IT'S A SIN, IT'S WRONG.

I WILL DO WHAT I CAN AS YOUR ELECTED REPRESENTATIVE AND STOP IT, BUT NOW HE'S SAYING ABORTION UP TO A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF WEEKS IS NECESSARY.

>> CAN IT GALVANIZE PRO-LIFERS?

>> I THINK SO, ESPECIALLY -- I DO BELIEVE THAT THE OPPOSITION CAMPAIGN TO THE ABORTION ACCESS INITIATIVE IS GOING TO FOCUS MORE ON THIS MESSAGE THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT -- YOU'VE GOT A LIMIT, BUT THEN YOU'VE GOT ALL OF THESE EXCEPTIONS, ESPECIALLY WITH THE MENTAL HEALTH OF THE MOTHER, AND ALL YOU NEED THEN IS AN OKAY FROM A DOCTOR, AND YOU CAN HAVE AN ABORTION, YOU KNOW, UP TO THE POINT OF BIRTH.

>> BUT HERE'S THE PROBLEM.

IF THE ISSUE IS ZERO WEEKS, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE, SPERM MEETS EGG, AND YOU'VE GOT A BABY.

EVERY POLL I'VE SEEN, EVERY ELECTION I THINK, LOOK WHAT HAPPENED IN OHIO WHERE THEY HAD THE SAME DECISION, IF PEOPLE ARE GIVEN A CHOICE BETWEEN ZERO WEEKS AND MAYBE WHAT THEY CONSIDER AN OVERLY BROAD MEASURE, I THINK THEY'LL VOTE FOR THE OVERLY BROAD MEASURE.

>> THE FACT THAT IT'S EVEN GOING TO BE AN ISSUE, THE FACT THAT THIS EVEN HAPPENED, DOES IT TURBO CHARGE THE BIDEN CAMPAIGN, THE GALLEGO CAMPAIGN, ANY AND ALL WHO ARE RUNNING AGAINST DAVID SCHWEIKER?

I MEAN, SISCAMONTE CALLED IT A DISASTER FOR WOMEN AND PROVIDERS.

I MEAN, DID EARTH REALLY MOVE OR IS IT GOING TO GO BACK IN PLACE COME SNOW.

>> WELL, I THINK OBVIOUSLY WHEN WE TALK NATIONAL, WE HAVE IMMIGRATION, WE HAVE HOUSING COSTS, WE HAVE INFLATION IN, AND CERTAINLY THOSE ARE GOING TO COME MORE TO THE FORT, BUT TO THE EXTENT THAT RUBIN GALLEGO, YOU TURN ON THE TV AND THERE HE IS OUT THERE ON NATIONAL TV.

HE WOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN ON NATIONAL TV ON ANY OF THIS STUFF BEFORE.

CERTAINLY HELPS HIM.

>> I DON'T THINK IS GOING TO DECIDE.

THE ROE DECISION CAME DOWN ALMOST TWO YEARS AGO, AND THE BALLOT INITIATIVE IN ARIZONA HAS GOT, WHAT, APPROACHING 600,000 SIGNATURES.

IT HAS NOT DIED.

TIME DID NOT KILL IT, AND WE'VE GOT, WHAT, SIX MONTHS NOW UNTIL WE VOTE IN NOVEMBER.

>> AND WITH EVERYTHING HAPPENING WITH THE DELAYS AND WITH THE DAYS AND -- THE STATE LEGISLATURE.

COULD THIS BE A SEISMIC SHIFT DOWN THERE?

>> YES, IT COULD.

I THINK THAT MAYBE ONE CHAMBER IS IN GREAT DANGER OF FLIPPING BECAUSE ALL ALONG REPUBLICANS -- AT LEAST FOR THE PAST FEW YEARS, HAVE HAD A ONE-PERSON MAJORITY TO CONTROL THE CHAMBERS.

SO EVEN IF ONE OR TWO SEATS FLIP, IT CHANGES ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING.

AND THEN IT'S NOT THE LEGISLATURE VERSUS HOBBS, IT'S HOBBS PLUS HALF OR ALL OF THE LEGISLATURE AGAINST THE REPUBLICAN.

>> I'M LOOKING AT SENATOR BULLOCK, REPRESENTATIVE GRESS, JDNESNARD, RACHEL JONES, I MEAN, ARE THESE FOLKS -- ARE THEY DOING YOUR THING WITH THE FINGER IN THE AIR?

>> I'M NOT SURE, WHEN YOU GET DOWN TO WASACK AND JONES, THEY'RE IN A SAFE REPUBLICAN DISTRICT.

>> DID THEY WIN WITH EASE OR -- >> WELL, THEY RAN WITH EASE IN THE GENERAL.

WHAT HAPPENED IS THEY OUSTED HE VINCE LEECH AND SOME OF THE OTHER MORE MODERATE REPUBLICANS DOWN THERE.

NOW, VINCE WANTS TO COME BACK, I DON'T THINK VINCE LEECH IS ANY MORE, QUOTE/UNQUOTE, PRO-CHOICE THAN WADSAK.

BUT YOU'RE RIGHT THERE ARE CERTAIN RACES THIS WILL MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE ON.

AND WHAT'S REALLY INTERESTING OF COURSE IS HAVING SHAUNA BULLOCK TALKING ABOUT THE NEED TO DO THIS WHEN HER HUSBAND WAS IN THE 4 TO 2 MAJORITY SAYING OH, WE'RE GOING TO GO BACK TO 1864 LAW.

>> I'VE GOTTA SAY THIS, WHY WOULD YOU EXPECT THAT A WOMAN SHOULD FALL IN LINE WITH WHAT HER HUSBAND DOES?

>> I'M NOT SAYING SHE SHOULD.

I JUST FIND IT FASCINATING THAT SHE FELT IT NECESSARY TO BE ON THE CUTTING EDGE OF SAYING -- I MEAN, THE INK WAS NOT DRY ON THE RULING WHEN SHE WAS ALREADY TWEETING THIS OUT.

>> AND AS I SAID EARLIER, THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE COME OUT EARLY, IT'S -- I'M IN A CLOSE RACE, THIS ISSUE IS GOING TO KILL ME, WELL, THEY WON'T EXACTLY SAY THAT, BUT THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE SAYING.

>> BUT FOR THE FREEDOM CKS FOLKS AND THESE KIND OF PEOPLE, WILL THEY BE ABLE TO SAY, WAIT A MINUTE, I THOUGHT YOU WERE WITH US AND NOW YOU'RE SAYING ALL THIS.

>> 100%.

THERE WAS A VIDEO THAT CAME OUT TODAY AND LAKE WAS SPEAKING AT SOME EVENT, AND A MAN SAID WE TRUSTED YOU, YOU RAN ON THIS PLAT FORM AND WHAT ARE YOU DOING, YOU'VE BEEN LYING TO US.

WHAT IS THIS?

SHE WAS EXPLAINING TO HIM, OKAY, NOVEMBER BALLOT WE'LL HAVE THIS MEASURE AND WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING.

BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S AN EXPRESSION SAYING IF YOU'RE EXPLAINING, YOU'RE ALREADY LOSING.

AND PEOPLE DON'T LIKE FEELING LIKE THEY DON'T KNOW WHERE THEIR CANDIDATES STAND.

WHEN THEY RUN ON ONE THING AND SEEMINGLY CHANGE TO SOMETHING ELSE.

SO I FEEL BAD.

BUT THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE BETWEEN A ROCK AND HARD PLACE RIGHT NOW.

OBVIOUSLY DEMOCRATS ARE NOT HAPPY WITH THEM.

THEY TAKE THE BLAME FOR SOME OF THIS PASSAGE OF THE 2022 STUFF, SOME OF THEM WHO WERE THERE.

AND ON THE OTHER HAND, THEY'RE ALIENATING SOME OF THEIR CONSTITUENTS, THE RED MEAT REPUBLICAN CONSTITUENTS, WHO SAID, HEY, ALL THE TIME THAT I'VE BEEN VOTING FOR YOU, YOU SAID YOU WERE THIS, AND NOW IT'S PUT TO THE TEST AND YOU'RE NOT.

>> I WANT A YAY OR NAY.

HOWIE.

>> WHAT'S THE QUESTION?

I NEED A QUESTION.

>> ABORTION OR IMMIGRATION?

WHICH IS THE BIGGEST ISSUE.

>> ARIZONA, ABORTION.

>> ABORTION?

>> YES.

>> ABORTION OR IMMIGRATION.

>> ABORTION.

>> WHAT DO YOU THINK KAMI.

>> ABORTION NOW.

>> THE BIGGEST ISSUE COME ELECTION DAY.

>> ABORTION.

>> THAT REALLY WASN'T A YAY OR NAY BUT IT'S BEEN A LONG WEEK.

PANEL, GOOD TO HAVE YOU ALL HERE.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

THAT'S IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.