>> Coming up on Arizona PBS, on Arizona horizon, the journalist's roundtable, a look at the week's top stories, including what is and what's not happening at the state capitol.

A small community near coolidge fights off an expansion and the never-ending population growth.

That's ahead on Arizona PBS.

Good evening and welcome to Arizona horizon.

I'm Ted Simons.

Joining us tonight to discuss the week's top stories are Howie Fischer, Mary Jo Pitzl and the AZcentral.com and panel, thank you for being here and Howie, we'll start with you and the house and the senate, they're off today, yesterday and I think the house was off and nothing is getting done and a lot to do.

>> Are you suggesting we won't meet our 100 day deadline?

[ Laughter ] >> I'm shocked, shocked, I tell you.

The fact is, this is the worst scenario for lawmaker.

Number one, more money than they know what to do with.

I have a priority and something I want and I want to get a tax cut and pay off debt and I want a bridge and I want something else.

At the same time, the republicans have the barest of majority, 16 senators and 31 reps each of them, because of the fact you do an all-republican budget becomes a veto.

So now, they're talking about a quote, unquote, skinny budget, which is the equivalent what Congress has, you adjust for inflation and growth and get the heck out of dodge.

Not sure it will happen but an interesting idea.

>> They may not get out of dodge if you follow that scenario, which I think the skinny budget is not likely to happen.

But another is, do that and then we'll keep working and do all of the other things like water and owe that tax cut to repeal and accelerate and majority leader Ben To ma in the house has said, we could just adjourn and then come back in special sessions and that just raises questions, well, a couple of questions, will governor Ducey sign a skinny budget and when will you have special sessions and a lot of people campaigning?

>> That seems to be a point down there, everyone is realizing, you have to get out of dodge because you have to start campaigning.

>> It's more complicated because of redistricting.

A lot of money to spend and everyone wants to spend it or refashion tax cuts.

And it's a mess.

>> Let me answer part of the question, will the governor sign a skinny budget?

Not just no, but hell no.

>> Are you channeling Doug Ducey in.

[ Laughter ] >> I feel the force.

Here is the problem, this is his last year and whether he ends with a bang or whimper.

He won't leave five billion dollars on the table for a successor.

He wants a big tax and a big water plant and he won't let them go home.

He says, I can be here all summer and I'm not running for anything and I don't see him agreeing to that at all.

>> Mary jo, this repeal and accelerate, with five billion dollars there and education funding still an issue, are the two going to mesh together or on separate tracks?

>> Well, it's hard to say.

There is a scenario in which the tax cut and more money for education could fit together into a grand bargain or a bargain of some in determinant size.

But five billion, of that, 1.3 billion is ongoing money and the rest is one-time money.

So you could use that to, I don't know, build a road.

But you can't put five billion into ongoing programs and expect that to continue.

So it does limit -- I mean, 1.3 billion is a lot to play with, but the question is, can you do a big tax cut that would be north of a billion dollars and then still put 800 and some into the K-12 base?

>> The idea of putting that into education, prop 208 prop level two, whatever the case may be, does the republican majority down there want to do that?

>> I think earlier, you talked to will state senator Paul Boyer, he said he'll be times man of the year or find his name on a milk carton.

He has nothing to lose.

>> That's where Boyer coming in because he's insisting that's expanded for low-income family.

>> I think there might be middle ground and right now, you can get a voucher to a DNF school or voucher on reservation and a whole set of things.

His belief if you expand it to the people in high poverty, you won't be adding that many.

Even dems might be willing to go along with that and you have Ben Toma who said it's all or nothing and he wants backpack funding where every parent gets a certain amount of money to send their kid wherever they want.

You want a Christian education or Jewish education, great, and the state will pay for it and that's a nonstarter with Democrats.

>> Last week before Paul Boyer, we had Reginald and ESA, nonstart but can president Fann work with Democrats and work with Democrats if she can't get the Democrats in line?

>> That's her displeasure with senator Boyer and not getting through to him.

The Democrats, I mean, they're willing to play as long what they want is there and maybe vouchers for kids in high poverty situations qualifying for free or reduced lunch, there's a real concern about the ESA efforts camels those and grows gradually and gradually.

There are a lot of questions about the sustainability of putting a bunch of money into the K-12 base and what happens when we have an economic downturn because it will happen some time.

What's the first thing you'll cut because you won't raise taxes.

>> Rebecca has her Shawn Buoy.

There is this earned income tax credit and a state version of what exists in the federal level where the state pays money to people who are low-income earners.

Everybody, again, is a free agent and, you know, how you put together that particular group of 16 to 31 remains to be seen.

>> This grand bargain phrase is laughable.

There's a lot of money and yet, it will take to work Democrats for the gran bargain.

>> It will take compromise and you know that word.

>> I work in public broadcast, too.

>> I think the way to look at this is we start the next week on Monday where Toma said they'll try to run a skinny budget and I look at that as the orchestra of warming up.

We'll hear a lot of screeches and sharps and flats in there, but it will mark the start of a public face on the budget.

>> OK. Steve, it looks like the Maricopa board of supervisors and three finalists for the county position to replace Alister Adele and they need to respond to a questionnaire.

>> What's interesting, some observers after just a few hours is that they're all running for the position and some might say that's not a great idea to give some a head-start to get re-elected, in essence.

But there's three questions and what are your goals?

And much longer is, county and the supervisors went through this whole process of an election and I don't have the words, but do you believe the 2020 election was carried out legally and correctly and without major problems?

That's an interesting question.

>> Did the board of supervisors error in airing the results?

>> I think I know what happens if you get a question question.

They have a big interest in maintaining their position and having an attorney who will maintain that question.

They will be able to say with a straight face, yes, I've looked at things and we've looked at the splunk logs figuring out what the heck those are.

Everything was fine and there's nothing to be seen here.

>> First of all, there are no splunk log because the machines aren't connected and you only get a log when you're connected to the Internet.

That might be another good question.

>> What is a spulnk log?

[ Laughter ] >> The answer is somewhat already been -- this question has been answered and our colleague, Dennis Welch, from Arizona family, asked them, and he got -- the only one that gave a definitive yes, Joe Biden, the county did it properly was Rachel Mitchell.

The others worked around that.

>> Rachel Mitchell, is already there, so she's, quote, unquote, one of them as far as county employees are concerned.

But it does matter and Howie gave a wonderful response and how you respond to that question is going to be what they're looking at.

>> No question about it and we know what bill gates went through with the threats on his family and people outside his house and his colleagues went through this.

They won't look to relitigate this and something people didn't think should be litigated.

>> Throughout the election and not just the county attorney here, but for all of the races and all elections, is that a litmus tests?

>> I think it is and for Supreme Court nominees and how do you feel about abortion and this is a litmus test and for republicans on the board of supervisors all who have been battle and they have said and bill gates has said, we did this right and, you know, if you don't think we did the right thing, we don't want you defending us.

>> Right.

Mary Jo, Democrats are complaining and who knew the new districts would get a complaint or concern and Democrats are complaining and why now?

>> Well, it's interesting, so that the democratic party is asking the attorney general to look at this last-minute change that was done to one of the districts, actually, to the districts.

One of the changes had the effect of benefiting senator Wendy Rogers who otherwise would have been in a heavily democratic dominated district.

Now she's in a district that's darn safe for reelection.

What's odd, though, is that if the Democrats -- and they've got this evidence there was some talk about this, and then why did the democratic members of the redistricting commission vote to approve that map?

If they knew what they knew then, then why would they vote to approve that?

And the other one, it's done in the Tucson area and one of the Democrats did change her vote on that.

I think this is a way to poke it, the attorney general, and give him something else to do.

>> The attorney general, Steve, will jump right on this.

>> No question, I don't think there's a question about it.

To Howie, who talked about accusations flying and that's why it's so interesting, why didn't they act sooner other than it seems like they're poking the bear now.

>> I think the bigger question, if you believe the laws were broken, why not sue?

Why turn it over to Brnovich make him say, I don't think there's a problem and use that against him.

If you believe the redistricting commission broke the laws -- because the constitutional measure that was approved by voters in 2000 says you may not consider where incumbents and candidates live.

The third one lived in a little community called liberty outside of buckeye and at the last minute, oh, put her in this republican district.

Wendy Rogers lives on route 66 in Flagstaff.

Oh, we have to bring it around here and in the Vince Lee situation in Tucson and they admitted creating a republican-leaning district and took the district and ignores Tucson ignores it and runs around to tankaverde.

I think this is public theater and if they believe this was an issue, they would have filed suit.

>> There were statements from the democratic party to the previous cycle, when mathis was the chair and how come other people aren't angry and because it's partism.

>> Is in the last complaint to hear about this and it's election year.

Figure it out quick.

>> I don't know, but the districts have said, at least for this round, and if anybody wants to bring a lawsuit and put this on hold for 2024, you know, boy, that will give us a lot to talk about.

>> A lot to talk about as far as employment and the unemployment numbers look 3.3%.

Inflation for the Phoenix area is at 10.9% and 11%.

And the governor must be really talking a lot about this.

>> Which is the reverse when we were at 11% unemployment under January brewer and the population growth and everything else was low.

This is an interesting mixed bag.

I mean, inflation is high across the country and particularly high here and curiously enough, the two issued could be related.

When you have unemployment that low, this is full employment.

Full employment when everybody who wants a job can get a job.

You have people not looking for work.

So you have companies -- look, hamburger places paying $25 an hour for people to wash dishes.

Guess what?

That drives up the cost of everything else.

I mean, you can blame it on the Biden Administration and the war in Ukraine but there are issues here at some point, the business community hates low unemployment.

As much as they talk about, you know, what it is, they hate low unemployment.

>> The governor isn't talking about anything like this.

>> A little bit off the cuff, supporters of the governor, by proxy, blame it on Joe Biden and that's no surprise.

>> Phoenix is the number one city for inflation.

>> But Howie, they came up with Bidenflation and what's interesting, this is another sign, as we see the housing market blow up, too, that this place when we moved here, affordability was the key word and that's not the case.

>> There's 39% for used cars and truck and 12% for housing and I mean, can you call that the Biden inflation when phoenix is number one for major cities?

>> I mean, people are calling it that, but many for complex reasons for that.

There's supply chain disruptions.

I have colleagues who moved to town and needed to buy a car and the sticker shock on that.

>> If you can find one.

>> That's the thing because they can't the computer chips and used cars are in great demand.

I keep getting people wanting to buy my Sentra and they're killing chickens in the midwest because of a flu.

Fewer chickens and fewer eggs.

It's nice for the republicans it's all Joe Biden's fault.

Unless Joe Biden gave those chickens the flu -- >> And a lot of the supply chain disruptions, it's a hangover from the pandemic.

It's that whole Domino effect or the butterfly wings working all the way through the economy.

>> The supply chain is a great point again because now with title 42 and the protesting about that, now we have this Texas truckers pushed by governor Greg Abbott and people were afraid of that supply chain because we weren't getting the supply as before across the border.

>> They have caused some increases delays and that has stopped as of today.

>> The governor just suddenlily uh-oh.

>> What am I doing here.

>> Howie, we had the state not living up with the schools.

>> How much time do you have?

In a case Roosevelt V. Bishop, you cannot leave repairs to each district.

You have rich districts with local property to build dome stadiums and poor districts where the ceilings were falling in and the legislature tried difficult mechanisms to equalize it and came up with students first and what they called the school facility's board.

You need a new schools, we'll build it and not only take care of your daily things and put money aside for a new roof and the recession came along and everyone said, oh, well, we can't do that.

So you come to us when things are really, really bad, like, you know, the school is overcrowded or the roof collapsed.

Back in 2007, the schools and educators got fed up and said, no, you're not living up to that.

We're getting close to a trial and we had a hearing and the attorneys for the state and legislature said, you know, we're doing the best we can and they can't show anybody is hurt and three, this is a political question, your honor, so butt out.

>> It's taken a long time through the process and the state is saying, in those years, look at how much money we've put into education.

>> There's been a lot of money into education, but not a lot, still, into school construction and school facilities.

The system is broken.

And that's what the plaintiffs, mostly school districts are alleging.

The data is correct.

I think part of the testimony on Wednesday was, there's, like, $500,000 in the building, renewal grant fund for your maintenance state-wide and that's not a lot of money across a big, wide state like Arizona.

>> Part of the reason for the delay, I think there was a belief that once that lawsuit was filed, the legislature would finally come around and do something.

I think even the plaintiffs figured, if we give them the time and show them the evidence, they will come around and do something.

Here we are in 2022, and yes, they've put more money in and you have a problem with districts that are bonding and still doing local bonds.

That is what Roosevelt V. Bishop were to get rid of.

You have to bond in south phoenix, a dollar on a tax rate would raise a million dollars and in Scottsdale, it would raise a million dollars.

>> How soon will we see a result?

>> They would dismiss the case on a summary judgment and trial dates set for 2023.

We'll be back around the table.

>> On another Friday, OK. >> Steve, there's a group that is suing to keep representative Biggs and representative Gosar and Fincham from running again because their insurrectionists.

>> They want to make sure the secretary of state and the two members of Congress can't run and attorneys are arguing saying well, Corey langhoffer did meaning things and they haven't done anything and they were at the capitol on the day of the insurrection.

>> Bad things is one thing but insurrection is specifically mentioned here and the definition of insurrection now comes into play?

>> Absolutely.

We have go back to the civil war and the argument has to be made, to some extent, not knowing all of the legalese, whether they were given tours and whether they can prove to have done something wrong.

The legal process, this is a process, can it be proven?

Maybe it can, but we haven't seen it yet.

>> Is it the kind of thing to stretch out and keep it as big and affect things down the line?

This is a lawsuit here.

>> I mean, there are motions to dismiss that are being heard as early as next week, but, like, Finchham he's saying, look, I need money for a legal defense and yes, it highlights their elections maybe not in a bad way.

>> I don't think it will drag on because they brought this in a state election code saying you have a certain number of days after the petitions were due which is April 4th to file a challenge and they filed it and the judge to set the case and after the judge, it goes to the state Supreme Court.

We will have a final ruling on this by midmay and it will not drag on.

>> We're seeing, too, this firms up the base, Ted.

These are folks who believe, probably the same folks to be a recount and thought there was a steal and it's basically, these are the folks no raise money because they think this is good.

>> The challenge is coming from people who believe these actions are those of insurrectionists and it's a part of the national movement and they target Margorie Taylor-green in Georgia and I believe and Lauren Bogert in Colorado.

>> Engage in insurrection or rebellion.

You have one minute, H owie.

>> Remember that name because Ed buck who made a lot of money before we came to Arizona funded and launched a recall against Edward Mecum, elected in 1986 and developed a reputation for staying stupid, thoughtless things and, you know, we don't even need to repeat those on the air and came to the point where folks said, we can't keep him around.

Turns out he didn't need to go through the recall because the legislature walks in, the republican legislature walked in and impeached and convicted him and threw him out of office.

Buck was convicted and sentenced for his role in the killing of two people who he supposedly lured to his home, injected with drugs and for somebody who was a piece of Arizona history.

>> Two men in his apartment, they died and 30 years and that is it for Ed buck and that's it for our show and that's a nice way to end the holiday weekend.

Thank you.

Thank you all for joining us and that's it for now and I'm Ted Simons and thank you for joining us, as well, and you have a great holiday weekend!