>>> COMING UP IN THE NEXT HOUR OF LOCAL NEWS ON ARIZONA PBS, ARIZONA HORIZON, REACTION TO THE JURY VERDICTS IN THE DEREK CHAUVIN MURDER TRIAL OF GEORGE FLOYD.

ON CRONKITE NEWS, HOW SCHOOLS ARE RESPONDING TO THE GOVERNOR ENDING OF MASK MANDATES IN K-12 CLASSROOMS, AND ON BREAK IT DOWN, BEHIND THE SCENES IN HOLLYWOOD FROM A PERSON OF COLOR'S PERSPECTIVE.

THAT'S ALL COMING UP IN THE NEXT HOUR ON ARIZONA PBS.

>> THIS HOUR OF LOCAL NEWS IS MADE POSSIBLE BY CONTRIBUTIONS FROM THE FRIENDS OF PBS.

MEMBERS OF YOUR PBS STATION.

THANK YOU.

>>> GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

FORMER POLICE OFFICER DEREK CHAUVIN WAS FOUND GUILTY ON ALL CHARGES OF MURDER AND MANSLAUGHTER IN THE DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD LAST YEAR.

THE VERDICTS WERE REACHED AFTER TEN HOURS OF DELIBERATION.

>> WE THE JURY AS TO COUNT I UNINTENTIONAL SECOND DEGREE MURDER, FIND THE DEFENDANT GUILTY.

THIS VERDICT AGREED TO DO 20TH DAY OF APRIL 2021.

SIGNED JURY FOREPERSON, JUROR NUMBER 19.

SAME CAPTION, VERDICT COUNT 2.

WE THE JURY FOUND AS TO COUNT II, THIRD DEGREE MURDER, FIND THE DEFENDANT GUILTY.

IN VERDICT AGREED TO DO 20TH DAY OF APRIL, 2021 AT 1:45 P.M.

FINED BY FOREPERSON JUROR NUMBER 19.

SAME CAPTION, VERDICT COUNT 3, WE THE JURY FIND THE DEFENDANT GUILTY.

>> AND THIS WAS THE REACTION OUTSIDE OF THE COURTHOUSE AS THE VERDICTS WERE READ AND ANNOUNCED TO THE CROWD.

THERE WERE CHEERS AND CHANTS OF GEORGE FLOYD'S NAME.

>> WE WANT OUR MESSAGE TO BE VERY CLEAR THAT THIS IS JUST THE FIRST STEP.

>> THE SECOND DEGREE MURDER CONVICTION CARRIES A PUNISHMENT OF UP TO 40 YEARS IN PRISON.

MAXIMUM FOR THIRD DEGREE MURDER IS 25 YEARS.

AND THE MAXIMUM FOR THIRD DEGREE MANSLAUGHTER IS TEN YEARS AND/OR $30,000.

THE MURDER TRIAL SHOWED GEORGE FLOYD CALLING OUT FOR HIS MOTHER WHILE HE WAS BEING KILLED.

THIS TOUCHED MANY MOTHERS.

WE SPOKE WITH DEB COLBERT OF THE PHOENIX ORGANIZATION OF BLACK MOTHERS FORUM.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US ONLY THIS EVENTFUL DAY.

YOUR THOUGHTS WHEN YOU HEARD THE VERDICT?

>> WHEN I HEARD THE VERDICT, THERE WAS DEFINITELY A BURST OF EMOTION FROM A STANDPOINT OF, YES, JUSTICE HAS BEEN SERVED, FINALLY.

>> DID THE VERDICT SURPRISE YOU?

>> THE FACT THAT ALL THREE COUNTS CAME BACK WITH A VICTORY, I'M GOING TO HAVE TO ADMIT BECAUSE OF PAST EXPERIENCES, IT DIDN'T, QUOTE UNQUOTE, SURPRISE ME, BUT IT DELIVERED A SENSE OF HOPE.

>> A SENSE OF HOPE IN THAT, WHAT?

IS THIS -- DO YOU SEE THIS AS A RECKONING OF SYSTEMIC RACISM IN AMERICA?

>> I WOULDN'T GO QUITE THAT FAR YET, BECAUSE I THINK WE STILL HAVE SOME HILLS TO CLIMB IN THAT SPACE, AND IN THE MINDS AND HEARTS OF SO MANY OTHER PEOPLE TO -- TO HIT THAT SPACE.

BUT I DO BELIEVE THAT THIS HAS SET A PRECEDENT, BECAUSE YOU SEE, TO HAVE THE PEERS OF THAT OFFICER GO TOTALLY AGAINST THE PROCESSES, PROCEDURES AND THE MIND SET THAT WAS USED ON MR. FLOYD SHOWS US THAT -- YOU KNOW, WHAT I BELIEVE IS THAT THE MAJORITY OF OUR OFFICERS ARE GOOD, AND GOOD INTENTIONED, SO I SEE THIS AS AN OPPORTUNITY GOING FORWARD FOR HOPEFULLY OUR POLICE DEPARTMENTS TO TAKE NOTE THAT SOMETHING DIFFERENT IS NEEDED.

>> IT'S INTERESTING THAT YOU BRING THAT UP, BECAUSE IT'S RELATIVELY REMARKABLE THAT SO MANY MEMBERS OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT WERE WITNESSES FOR THE PROSECUTION AGAINST CHAUVIN, AND YOU ARE SAYING THAT SHOWED YOU SOMETHING.

>> IT DID.

IT SHOWED ME THAT THEY ARE GETTING THEIR COURAGE, AND THEY ARE GETTING THEIR -- THEY ARE FEELING A LITTLE BIT MORE SUPPORTED IN TERMS OF BEING ABLE TO SPEAK OUT AGAINST WRONG.

WRONG IS WRONG WITHIN THEIR CULTURE, AND SO I SEE IT AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO A CULTURE SHIFT WITH OUR MEN AND WOMEN IN BLUE.

>> THERE ARE SO MANY -- JUST VERY EMOTIONAL POINTS IN THIS TRIAL, BUT I WOULD IMAGINE FOR YOU, HEARING THE AUDIO, AND HEARING GEORGE FLOYD'S VOICE CALLING OUT FOR HIS MOTHER, THAT -- THAT MUST HAVE BEEN JUST -- WELL, YOU TELL ME.

WHAT DID YOU FEEL WHEN YOU HEARD THAT?

>> WHAT I FELT WAS ANGER AND, YES, I WEPT, AND IT -- AND EVEN WHEN YOU BRING IT UP NOW, IT IS JUST AN EMOTION.

BECAUSE YOU SEE THAT SHOULDN'T BE THE LAST WORDS YOU HEAR FROM YOUR SON OR YOUR CHILD WHEN THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO, QUOTE, UNQUOTE, BE IN THE HANDS OF PEOPLE THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO SERVE AND PROTECT.

IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN.

>> WHAT -- BLACK MOMS.

WHAT ARE BLACK MOMS TELLING THEIR CHILDREN TODAY?

WHAT ARE YOU TELLING YOUR CHILDREN TODAY?

AND IS IT ANY DIFFERENT THAN IT WAS YESTERDAY?

>> YOU KNOW, WHEN I TALKED TO MY SON YESTERDAY, AND WE KNEW THAT THE VERDICT WAS COMING DOWN, HE ACTUALLY WAS MORE PESSIMISTIC THAN I. I HAVE TO BELIEVE THAT THE WAY THAT THE PROSECUTION BROUGHT THIS CASE, THERE -- THERE IS NOT A LOT OF ROOM FOR ANYTHING BUT A GUILTY VERDICT ALL THE WAY AROUND, AND BUT WHEN I TALKED TO HIM TODAY, RIGHT BEFORE THIS CALL, ACTUALLY, HE WAS IN -- HE WAS THE ONE THAT WAS IN DISBELIEF IN ALL THREE CHARGES CAME BACK GUILTY, BUT HE ALSO SAID, WOW, MOM, THIS TELLS ME THERE IS HOPE.

AND HE ENCOURAGED ME TO KEEP DOING THE WORK THAT WE DO EACH AND EVERY DAY AS BLACK MOTHERS.

>> THAT MUST HAVE REALLY BEEN IMPORTANT.

>> VERY IMPORTANT.

>> FAMILY FRIENDS -- I KNOW IT'S STILL RELATIVELY EARLY HERE.

WHAT ARE YOU HEARING, AND WHAT KIND OF REACTION DO YOU WANT TO SEE NOW FROM CROWDS, POLICE, SOCIETY, THE WHOLE NINE YARDS?

WHAT DO YOU WANT TO SEE?

>> I WANT TO SEE PEOPLE REALLY GET INVOLVED IN HELPING TO PASS THE POLICING ACT, AND THE LEGISLATION THAT WE NEED.

I WANT TO SEE PEOPLE GET MORE INVOLVED IN THEIR COMMUNITY, BECAUSE CHANGE HAPPENS AT THE LOCAL LEVEL, AND A LOT OF THE COMMUNITY'S INVOLVEMENT IN TERMS OF BEING ABLE TO HAVE A CIVILIAN REVIEW BOARD THAT ACTUALLY WORKS.

I WANT TO SEE THEM CHALLENGE OUR POLICE UNIONS TO DO A BETTER JOB OF RECOGNIZING THE FACT THAT THE POWER THAT THEY HAVE, AND TO ACTUALLY HAVE A LAW OUTSIDE OF THE LAW THAT PROTECTS POLICE HAS TO END AND STOP, BECAUSE NO ONE SHOULD BE ABOVE THE LAW.

I BELIEVE THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HOW PEOPLE WITHIN THE COMMUNITY CAN TAKE AN ACTIVE APPROACH EVEN IF THEY DO NOTHING MORE THAN CALL THEIR SENATORS AND THEIR CONGRESS PEOPLE, OR THEIR CITY COUNCIL REPRESENTATIVES.

IT IS VERY, VERY IMPORTANT FOR THE COMMUNITY TO REALIZE THAT THIS IS THE FIRST STEP TOWARDS MOVING TOWARDS A BETTER SYSTEM OF PROTECTING COMMUNITIES.

>> DEB COLBERT OF THE PHOENIX ORGANIZATION OF BLACK MOTHERS FORUM, A GOOD DAY FOR YOU?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

ABSOLUTELY.

JUSTICE HAS DEFINITELY BEEN SERVED IN THE CASE OF DEREK CHAUVIN, AND I THINK WE HAVE TO REALIZE THAT HE -- AS YOU WATCHED HIS REACTION, WHAT CONCERNED ME WAS THE NEUTRALITY OF HIS LOOK, AND SO I THINK -- I'M NOT GOING TO EVEN TRY TO GUESS WHAT WAS IN HIS MIND OTHER THAN HIS EYES SAID WHAT JUST HAPPENED.

SO FOR HIM I THINK IT IS A WAKE-UP CALL, AND FOR HIS PEERS IT IS A WAKE-UP CALL, AND WE STILL HAVE A FEW OFFICERS LEFT IN THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION THAT HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS TRIAL PROCESS.

>> WELL, DEB COLBERT OF THE PHOENIX ORGANIZATION OF BLACK MOTHERS FORUM, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TAKING THE TIME TO JOIN US ON THIS EVENTFUL DAY.

WE APPRECIATE THE CONVERSATION.

THANKS FOR THE VISIT.

>> THANK YOU, AND I APPRECIATE YOU REACHING OUT.

IT WAS A FANTASTIC DAY.

>>> UP NEXT, REACTION TO THE VERDICTS FROM A RETIRED CITY OF PHOENIX ASSISTANT POLICE CHIEF.

>>> WELL TODAY'S GUILTY VERDICT FORMER MINNEAPOLIS POLICE OFFICER DEREK CHAUVIN CHANGE POLICING IN AMERICA?

KEVIN ROBINSON THINKS SO.

KEVIN ROBINSON, GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

LOTS TO TALK ABOUT HERE.

YOUR THOUGHTS WHEN YOU HEARD THE VERDICTS READ.

>> FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

WITH REGARD TO THE VERDICTS, THE MINUTE THEY WERE READ, I REALLY WASN'T SURPRISED.

I WAS FAIRLY WELL CONVINCED BASED ON THE AMOUNT OF EVIDENCE PRESENTED BY THE PROSECUTION, THE EXPERTS, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY THE NUMBER OF OFFICERS WHO TESTIFIED TO THE -- YOU KNOW, TO WHAT WAS REALLY POLICY, WHAT WAS REALLY MOST IMPORTANT, AND WHAT MR. CHAUVIN DID THAT WAS NOT WITHIN DEPARTMENT POLICY.

I THINK ALL OF THOSE THINGS COMBINED DIDN'T SURPRISE ME THAT THE JURY CAME BACK, BUT I WAS SURPRISED THEY CAME BACK AS QUICKLY AS THEY DID.

>> WERE YOU SURPRISED HOW IN OFFICERS TESTIFIED AGAINST DEREK CHAUVIN?

>> I WAS NOT.

I UNDERSTAND THERE IS A BLUE WALL OF SILENCE, THE IDEA THAT POLICE OFFICERS STICK UP FOR ONE ANOTHER, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT IS REALLY -- IT'S NOT THE PRACTICE.

IT MAY BE A BIT OF A RULE, BUT IT'S NOT THE PRACTICE.

THE MAJORITY OF POLICE OFFICERS I KNOW, BOTH RETIRED AND CURRENT, THEY WERE APPALLED BY THE ACTIONS THAT THEY SAW LAST MAY WHEN MR. CHAUVIN KNELT ON MR. FLOYD'S NECK.

THERE WASN'T ANYBODY WHO CAME UP WITH ANY FORM OF A DEFENSE FOR HIS ACTIONS.

SO I -- PEOPLE UNDERSTOOD -- OR I SHOULD SAY LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS UNDERSTOOD, BOTH CURRENT AND RETIRED, KNEW THAT THOSE ACTIONS GIVE A BAD RAP TO LAW ENFORCEMENT.

>> WITH THAT IN MIND, IS THIS CASE -- THESE VERDICTS, ARE WE TALKING ABOUT A RECKONING, AS FAR AS POLICE VIOLENCE IN THE UNITED STATES?

>> TIME IS GOING TO TELL FOR SURE.

BUT I DO BELIEVE IT IS A WATERSHED MOMENT.

I THINK THAT HOPEFULLY PEOPLE HAVE TRUST OR FAITH IN OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM, AND I UNDERSTAND WHY FOR THE LONGEST TIME A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T HAVE FAITH AND CONFIDENCE IN THE JUSTICE SYSTEM.

BUT WHAT WE SAW PLAY OUT HERE WAS EXTRAORDINARY.

YOU HAD A POLICE OFFICER THAT WAS CHARGED.

THE POLICE CHIEF AOTHERS ALL TESTIFIED THAT HIS ACTIONS WERE WRONG, AND THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT I THINK IS AN ANOMALY.

I THINK IT WOULD HAPPEN ANY TIME A POLICE OFFICER STEPS OUT OF BOUNDS AND DOES SOMETHING HE OR SHE SHOULD NOT BE DOING.

>> DOES IT EFFECT THE SOCIETAL COMPACT WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT?

BECAUSE WE HAVE SEEN THAT COMPACT, THAT CONTRACT, IT IS FRAYED SERIOUSLY HERE IN THE LAST YEAR OR SO.

WHAT DOES THIS DO TO THAT AGREEMENT?

>> I THINK FRAYED IS A KIND WORD.

I THINK IT'S BEYOND THAT QUITE HONESTLY.

I THINK IT HELPS TO START TO MEND THAT PROCESS.

WITH A LITTLE BIT OF LUCK, EVERYBODY, AND I MEAN BOTH SIDES, PEOPLE INSIDE OF LAW ENFORCEMENT -- LAW ENFORCEMENT AND THE ENTIRE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM, AND PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF THAT REALM, EVERYONE, THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO COME TOGETHER AND UNDERSTAND MORE COMPLETELY THE CONCERNS OF THE OTHER PARTY, AND ONCE WE GET TO THAT POINT, AND IT'S NOT ALWAYS GOING TO WORK, BUT I THINK WE'LL START MOVING FORWARD IN A WAY THAT EVERYONE WILL HOPEFULLY BE HAPPY WITH.

>> IN TERMS OF MOVING FORWARD, OBVIOUSLY YOU NEED AS MUCH INFORMATION AS POSSIBLE.

DOES THIS CASE EVEN HAPPEN WITHOUT THAT 17-YEAR-OLD GIRL TAKING VIDEO OF WHAT OCCURRED?

>> THE UNFORTUNATELY THING IS NO, IT DOESN'T.

I KNOW THERE WILL BE PEOPLE WHO SAY, THE ONLY WAY JUSTICE WILL PREVAIL IN A SITUATION LIKE THIS IS WHEN WE ALL SEE IT ACTUALLY HAPPEN, AND THERE IS SOME TRUTH TO THAT.

WE HAVE TO BE HONEST ABOUT IT.

THERE IS SOME TRUTH ABOUT IT.

BUT WE HAVE TO HAVE FAITH.

AND I SPENT 36.5 YEARS IN LAW ENFORCEMENT.

I ENJOYED WHAT I DID.

AND I KNOW THE VAST MAJORITY OF LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS ARE STRIVING TO DO THE RIGHT THINGS FOR THE RIGHT REASONS AND HELP PEOPLE ALONG THE WAY, SO I THINK WE CAN GET THERE.

IT'S GOING TO TAKE A WHILE, BUT I THINK WE CAN.

>> AND YOU SAID SOME PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE ROLLING THEIR EYES SAYING NO, WAY THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN NOW OR IN THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE.

HOW DO YOU CONVINCE THEM?

>> WELL, TIME IS GOING TO TELL.

IT REALLY WILL.

I HOPE PEOPLE TAKE NOTE OF THE FACT OF THE LINE OF OFFICERS WHO TOOK THE STANDING AND UNEQUIVOCALLY SAID THIS IS WRONG.

THIS IS NOT WHO WE ARE, AS A PROFESSIONAL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY.

I'M OF THE OPINION -- AND THIS IS BASED ON PEOPLE I TALK TO AROUND THE COUNTRY IN LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES, I THINK OTHER OFFICERS WOULD STAND UP TO THAT AND DO THE SAME THING.

A LOT OF FOLKS ARE GOING TO SAY NO, THIS IS A ONE OFF.

I HOPE THAT'S NOT THE CASE.

I DON'T THINK IT IS.

I THINK THE VAST MAJORITY OF POLICE OFFICERS ARE OUT THERE DOING A GREAT JOB, AND THEY DESERVE TO BE VIEWED AS THE PROFESSIONALS THAT THEY ARE.

KEVIN ROBINSON, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> A NEW BOOK TITLED "DRIVING WHILE BROWN" CHRONICLES JOE ARPAIO'S CONTROVERSIAL IMMIGRATION POLICIES.

THE BOOK IS COAUTHORED BY A LOCAL JOURNALIST, AND OUR NEXT GUEST, TERRY GREENE STERLING.

GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

CONGRATULATIONS ON THIS BOOK.

EARLY ON YOU SAY THIS IS NOT A BIOGRAPHY OF JOE ARPAIO.

WHAT IS IT?

>> THIS IS A BOOK THAT LOOKS AT ARIZONA'S YEARS WITH ARPAIO, THE ARPAIO YEARS, AND THE ARIZONA SB1070 LAWS, AND CONTEXTUALIZES IT IN HISTORY, AND CHRONICLES THE LATINO RESISTANCE THAT ROSE UP SUCCESSFULLY AGAINST IT, AND ALSO THE RESISTANCE THAT SUPPORTED ARPAIO.

>> YEAH.

OKAY.

AND THE BOOK IS KIND OF DIVIDED INTO THREE PARTS HERE.

THE FIRST PART IS THE HISTORY OF IMMIGRATION-THEMED FIGHTS, AND THERE IS A BIG HISTORY HERE.

>> YES.

WELL, I MEAN, IMMIGRATION LAW WAS -- YOU KNOW, HEAVILY INFLUENCED BY THE MOVEMENT IN THE 1920S, AND WHEN ARPAIO -- ACTUALLY WHEN HIS DAD CAME OVER FROM ITALY, BUT IN ARIZONA, THE -- THE BATTLE FOR CIVIL RIGHTS BY PEOPLE OF MEXICAN DECENT, MEXICAN AMERICANS AND MEXICAN IMMIGRANTS DATES BACK TO THE MEXICAN-AMERICAN WAR IN 1848 WHEN ARIZONA BECAME PART OF THE UNITED STATES, AND MANY MEXICAN CITIZENS BECAME AMERICAN CITIZENS, BUT THEY WERE STRIPPED OF THEIR BUSINESSES AND THEIR LIVELIHOODS BY WHITE SETTLERS, AND THEN WE FAST FORWARD TO THE CONFEDERACY, AND ARIZONA BECOMES PART OF THE CONFEDERACY AFTER THE CIVIL WAR, ARIZONA BECOMES A MAGNET FOR SOUTHERN REFUGEES BECAUSE IT WAS A FORMER CONFEDERATE STATE.

THESE PEOPLE BRINGING MANY OF THEIR VIEWS ON MINORITIES WITH THEM, AND THRIVE IN ARIZONA AS SETTLERS, AND BECOME VERY PROMINENT IN ARIZONA POLITICS AT THE TIME.

>> YEAH, AND ALL OF WHICH IS A PRELUDE TO THE NEXT RUBRIC, AND THAT IS THE HEIGHT OF THE IMMIGRATION FIGHTS.

THE NATIONAL DEBATE ON IMMIGRATION, NOTHING NEW TO ARIZONANS, CONSIDERING WHAT WE WENT THROUGH.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

SO ARIZONA WAS SORT OF THE CANARY IN THE COAL MINE, AND AS WE KNOW, WE HAD MANY LAWS THAT -- THAT WERE STATE LAWS THAT WERE PASSED THAT WERE INTENDED TO CRIMINALIZE UNAUTHORIZED IMMIGRANTS, AND THE MOST PROMINENT, OF COURSE, WAS SENATE BILL 1070.

AT THE SAME TIME, ARPAIO GETS A -- 287G PARTNERSHIP WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WHICH ALLOWS HIM TO ENFORCE IMMIGRATION WITH THE FEDS, AND WE START SEEING THE SWEEPS ON THE STREETS OF PHOENIX, MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF SHERIFF DEPUTIES IN LATINO NEIGHBOR -- NEIGHBORHOODS.

WE HAD THE DEMONSTRATION IN FRONT OF PRUITT'S FURNITURE STORE WHEN ARPAIO DECIDED TO GO UP AGAINST DAY LABORERS.

DAY LABORERS WERE AMONG THE FIRST TO GO UP AGAINST ARPAIO.

HE SUBSEQUENTLY LOST SOME OF HIS AUTHORITY TO ENFORCE IMMIGRATION WITH THE FEDS.

AT THE TIME ARPAIO WAS ONE OF THE MOST POPULAR POLITICIANS IN ARIZONA, AND MANY PEOPLE ACCUSE HIM OF RETALIATION AGAINST HIS CRITICS.

HE IS -- HE IS SAID TO GO AFTER JUDGES WHO RULE AGAINST HIM.

HE IS SAID TO GO AFTER CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVISTS.

REPUBLICANS, ANYBODY WHO IS CRITICAL OF HIM, AND -- AND SO ACTUALLY THE LATINO RESISTANCE THAT RISES UP IS THE ONLY, REALLY, FORCE THAT -- OF RECKONING FOR HIM, AND ULTIMATELY, HE RESISTANCE ON THE STREETS AND IN THE COURTS AND IN THE PUBLIC SQUARE END UP CAUSING ARPAIO TO LOSE THE 2016 ELECTION.

>> AND THUS THE LAST PART OF YOUR BOOK, ARPAIO'S FALL FROM GRACE.

DID YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO SPEAK WITH SHERIFF ARPAIO MUCH?

>> WE SPOKE TO ARPAIO FREQUENTLY.

HE GAVE US A LOT OF INTERVIEWS THAT LASTED SOMETIMES ONE, TWO, THREE HOURS.

WE SPOKE TO HIM THROUGHOUT OUR REPORTING OF THE BOOK, AND HE WAS VERY HAPPY TO TALK TO US, AND, YOU KNOW, WE CONFRONTED HIM WITH TOUGH QUESTIONS.

>> WITH THAT IN MIND, THOUGH, DID YOU LEARN ANYTHING ABOUT HIS MOTIVATIONS, CONSIDERING HOW MUCH ACCESS YOU HAD TO HIM, AND THE RESEARCH YOU DID ON THIS IS EXHAUSTIVE EXHAUSTIVE.

YOU GUYS DID GREAT WORK HERE.

DID YOU LEARN SOMETHING BETWEEN THAT AND SPEAKING TO ARPAIO?

>> I WOULD SAY THE MOST IMPORTANT THING ABOUT ARPAIO IS THAT IN MY VIEW, HE HAS THIS GREAT NEED WITHIN HIM FOR PROBATION, AND IT LEADS HIM TO, YOU KNOW, ADDRESS INMATES IN PINK UNDERWEAR, AND HAVE THEM BUNK IN TENT CITIES, JUST TO GET MEDIA ATTENTION.

>> WELL, CONGRATULATIONS AGAIN ON THIS EFFORT.

THIS IS QUITE THE EFFORT.

THE BOOK IS "DRIVING WHILE BROWN."

TERRY ALWAYS A PLEASURE.

GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>>> AND THAT IS IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING.

♪ >>> COMING UP IN THE NEXT HALF HOUR OF LOCAL NEWS ON ARIZONA PBS, ON CRONKITE NEWS, WHY A VALLEY BAR THAT HAS BEEN STRUGGLING DURING THE PANDEMIC IS OPTIMISTIC FOR THE FUTURE.

AND ON AND ON BREAK IT DOWN, BEHIND THE SCENES IN HOLLYWOOD FROM A PERSON OF COLOR'S PERSPECTIVE.