♪.

TED: COMING UP IN THE NEXT HOUR ON ARIZONA PBS.

ON "ARIZONA HORIZON," IT'S THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

A LOOK AT THE WEEK'S TOP STORIES INCLUDING THE LEAKED SUPREME COURT OPINION ON OVERTURNING ROE V. WADE AND IMPACT IN ARIZONA.

>>> AND ON "BREAK IT DOWN," A LOOK INTO THE REPRESENTATION, HORRORS AND RAVES AROUND THE MOVIE "ENCANTO."

IT'S ALL AHEAD IN THE NEXT HOUR ON ARIZONA PBS.

ANNOUNCER: THIS HOUR OF LOCAL NEWS IS MADE POSSIBLE BY CONTRIBUTIONS FROM THE FRIENDS OF PBS, MEMBERS OF YOUR PBS STATION, THANK YOU.

TED: GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

IT'S FRIDAY, AND THAT MEANS IT'S TIME FOR ANOTHER EDITION OF THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

JOINING US TONIGHT TO DISCUSS THE WEEK'S TOP STORIES ARE JEREMY DUDA OF AXIOS PHOENIX, HOWIE FISCHER OF CAPITOL MEDIA SERVICES AND RACHEL LEINGANG OF ARIZONA AGENDA.

START WITH THE ROE V. WADE, THE OPINION IS LEAKED IF ARE STARTERS, LOTS TO TALK ABOUT, FOR STARTERS, ABORTION IS STILL LEGAL IN ARIZONA.

>> IT IS AS OF, YOU KNOW, 5:04 P.M. ON FRIDAY, AND IT WILL BE LEGAL UNTIL WE GET ROE V. WADE.

NOW WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THAT, OF COURSE, IS UP FOR DEBATE.

THERE ARE PEOPLE LIKE CATHY, THE CENTER FOR ARIZONA POLICY, YOU'VE TALKED TO HER AND NANCY BARTO WHO SPONSORED THE BILL, ONCE ROE V. WADE IS OVERTURNED WE FALL BACK TO THE PRE-1973 LAW, NO ABORTIONS EXCEPT TO SAVE THE LIFE OF THE MOTHER.

THE GOVERNOR HAS TAKEN A POSITION THE NEW 15-WEEK BAN SUPERSEDES THAT AND SAYS THAT WOULD TAKE EFFECT.

CLEARLY, SOMETHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN, SOME WOMEN WILL LOSE THE RIGHT TO ABORTION.

HOW MANY, WE DON'T KNOW.

TED: RACHEL, WHAT THE GOVERNOR IS SAYING, YES, THE 1901 LAW IS THERE, IT'S ON THE BOOKS, WHAT WE DID IN THE CURRENT SESSION, THAT SUPERSEDES IT BECAUSE THAT'S NEW LAW, THAT'S OLD LAW.

BUT IS THAT REAL?

>> THE NEW LAW EXPLICITLY SAID IT DIDN'T REPEAL OLD LAWS.

TED: YEAH.

>> I THINK IT'S ONE OF THE THINGS LIKE ABORTION ALWAYS ENDS IN THE COURTS, THIS ENDS UP IN THE COURTS AGAIN, OR LAWMAKERS FIGURE OUT WITH A NEW SUPREME COURT RULING, WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO?

WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO GOING FORWARD?

SOME STATES HAVE CLEAR TRIGGER LAWS, HERE IT'S MUDDIER.

>> OTHER COMPLICATIONS AND PARTS TO BAN ABORTIONS DUE TO GENETIC DEFECTS, WHAT WASN'T CHALLENGED IS NO ABORTION PILLS DELIVERED BY MAIL.

NOW THAT RAISED INTERESTING QUESTIONS, IF YOU CAN GET AN ABORTION PILL BY MAIL FROM A CALIFORNIA DOCTOR, HOW DOES THE STATE ENFORCE THAT?

THERE MAY BE WORK-AROUNDS.

TED: THAT AGAIN, JEREMY, IT'S A 1901 LAW HOLDS, WE'RE ALL TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, DOES IT HOLD?

THE LEGISLATION THAT WAS PASSED DID KIND OF EXPLICITLY SAY THIS IS SUPPOSED TO SUPERSEDE, BUT WE DON'T KNOW THAT.

>> WE DON'T KNOW FOR SURE, AND RACHEL READ THIS IN THE COURTS, WHAT THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE SAID WHAT I ASKED ABOUT THAT.

THAT ARGUMENT DOES SEEM LIKE A WISHFUL THINKING, THE LEGISLATURE GOES OUT OF ITS WAY TO SPECIFICALLY SAY, HEY, WE'RE NOT GETTING RID OF THAT.

THERE WAS A PART OF THE 1901 LAW THEY DID GET RID OF LAST YEAR.

TWO PROVISIONS OF THE LAW.

ONE MADE IT A FELONY FOR DOCTOR TO PERFORM AN ABORTION.

ONE MADE IT A FELONY FOR A WOMAN TO GET AN ABORTION HERSELF.

THEY REPEALED THAT LAST YEAR.

THIS YEAR THEY WENT OUT OF THE WAY TO MAKE SURE THIS IS STILL IN THE BOOKS, NOT INTENDING TO REPEAL.

THAT SUGGESTS LEGISLATIVE INTENT.

THEY WANT THAT ON THE BOOKS.

IF ROE GETS OVERTURNED, THAT WOULD THAT IN EFFECT, THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE SIGNALING THERE.

>> WHAT DOES LEGISLATIVE INTENT MEAN?

THE VERY NEXT STATUTE AFTER THE ABORTION BAN, THE ONE PEOPLE HOPE TAKES EFFECT, BANS THE ADVERTISING OF CONTRACEPTIVES, ALL PART OF THE SAME ISSUE.

SO DOES THAT TAKE EFFECT?

YOU CAN'T ADVERTISE ABORTIONS?

CAN'T ADVERTISE CONTRACEPTIVES?

WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE?

I THINK RACHEL IS RIGHT, WE'RE GOING TO END UP IN COURT FOR MONTHS, IF NOT YEARS.

TED: RACHEL, TALK ABOUT THE POLITICAL FALLOUT OF ALL OF THIS, WE HAD A MIDTERM ELECTION COMING UP HERE, AND COULD THIS BE A MAJOR ISSUE, OR IT MIGHT NOT.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

.

>> I THINK IT'S ALWAYS BEEN A WEDGE ISSUE FOR A CERTAIN PERCENT OF THE POPULATION, IT IS A TOP ISSUE, FOR THE ELECTORATE IT IS NOT.

IF THE LAWS ARE MUCH MORE RESTRICTIVE THAT ARE TRIGGERED INTO PLAY, OR IF THERE'S A LOT OF MOVEMENT OR PEOPLE TRYING TO GET OUT AND PROTEST AND GET OUT AND TALK ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO.

MOVE TOWARD A BALLOT MEASURE.

MOVE TOWARDS WAYS TO PROVIDE ACCESS.

I THINK IT COULD BE GALVANIZING ON THE LEFT, AND ON THE RIGHT, THIS IS THE CULMINATION FOR THE PRO-LIFE MOVEMENT OF DECADES OF THEIR WORK, IF THEY WANT TO CONTINUE TO MOVE DOWN THAT PATH, THEN I THINK THAT GETS THEM TO THE POLLS AS WELL.

>> I THINK FOR YEARS, SINCE 1973, FOR THE LEFT, THEY HAVEN'T HAD TO MAKE THAT AN ISSUE.

I USE THE TERMS LEFT AND RIGHT LOOSELY BECAUSE IT'S FAIT ACCOMPLI.

THEY SAID ROE IS SETTLED LAW.

MAYBE THEY WERE CROSSING THEIR FINGERS, THAT'S FINE.

NOW THERE ARE PEOPLE FOR WHOM THIS IS A TOUCHSTONE ISSUE.

THINGS WHERE THEY MAY HAVE WANTED TO VOTE ON SCHOOL FINANCE BEFORE OR HEALTH CARE OR ENVIRONMENT.

THIS BECOMES THE ISSUE THAT IF THE DEMOCRATS ARE SMART ENOUGH AND MAY BE A BIG IF, THEY CAN GET THE PEOPLE OUT AND GET THEM TO THE POLLS AND MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

TED: DOES IT GALVANIZE WOMEN?

DOES IT GALVANIZE YOUNG VOTERS?

>> THAT REMAINS TO BE SEEN.

WE TALKED ABOUT IT BEING A SETTLED ISSUE FOR SO LONG.

THE FACT IT'S NOT CHANGES VOTERS' BEHAVIORS.

I SPOKE WITH PAUL BENZ AT HIGH GROUND, DO YOU THIS FOR A LIVING, WHAT DO YOU THINK THE EFFECT WILL BE POLITICALLY?

WE DON'T KNOW, BECAUSE EVERY POLLING IS BASED ON THE NOTION THIS IS SETTLED LAW, IT'S NOT GOING TO CHANGE.

NOW IF YOU WANT TO LOOK AT WHO THINKS THIS IS GOING TO HELP WIN THE ELECTION, LOOK AT THE STATEMENTS AND THE CANDIDATES AND PARTIES ARE MAKING, THE DEMOCRATS ARE TALKING ABOUT THIS, AND THE REPUBLICANS PUTTING OUT TALKING POINTS NATIONALLY THAT ARE TRYING TO DOWNPLAY THE OVERTURNING OF ROE PART, FOR THE DEMOCRATS, HOPEFUL THEY'LL GET SLAMMED IN A RED WAVE THAT THIS WILL GALVANIZE A LOT OF LEFT LEANING VOTERS WHO MAY HAVE OTHERWISE STAYED HOME.

THIS WILL GIVE THEM SOMETHING TO SAY, I NEED TO VOTE ON THIS NOW.

>> DEPENDS HOW YOU MESSAGE THAT.

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?

YOU CAN'T SAY OVERTURNING ROE IS BAD.

THEN WHAT?

TED: RIGHT.

>> HOW IS ME VOTING FOR YOU GOING TO PREVENT THIS?

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO IMPROVE ACCESS OR LIFE FOR FAMILIES?

THAT'S WHETHER THIS WORKS POLITICALLY FOR THE LEFT.

>> AND THAT BECOMES THE ISSUE.

IN TERMS OF THE ARIZONA LEGISLATURE, THE ISSUE IS DEMOCRATS ARE ONE VOTE SHORT OF EVEN, AND TWO VOTES SHORT OF MAJORITY.

I THINK IF I'M A DEMOCRATIC LAWMAKER AND WANT TO GET FOLKS OUT.

I SAY IF YOU DO THIS, YOU MAKE DEMOCRATS A MAJORITY, WE WILL PASS LAWS REPEALING THIS.

IF YOU'RE RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR, A LA KATIE HOBBS, YOU WILL SAY I WILL VETO BAD LEGISLATION, IF YOU'RE RUNNING LIKE KRIS MAYES FOR ATTORNEY GENERAL, SHE HAS A THEORY ABORTION WILL REMAIN LEGAL NO MATTER WHAT.

SHE SAID I WILL NOT ENFORCE ABORTION LAWS BECAUSE I BELIEVE ARIZONA'S RIGHT TO PRIVACY SUPERSEDES ANYTHING THAT HAPPENS.

TED: WE'LL GET TO THOSE REACTIONS IN A SECOND.

BACK TO THE IDEA OF GALVANIZING PEOPLE, IF IT GALVANIZES PEOPLE ON THE LEFT, DOES IT NOT TAKE THE OPPOSITE REACTION THAT THIS ISSUE HAS GALVANIZED PEOPLE ON THE RIGHT SINCE 1973.

DOES THAT EASE A LITTLE BIT?

DO PEOPLE THAT GO MARCHING AND SHOUTING TO THE POLLS GO QUITE AS ENERGETICALLY?

>> MAYBE NOT.

MAYBE NOT THE ONES WHO CARE ABOUT THE ISSUE.

THIS HAS BEEN 50 YEARS OF WORK, PRESUMING THIS RULING HOLDS, 50 YEARS OF WORK, THIS IS WHAT THE ENTIRE MOVEMENT IS WORKING FOR.

THE PROBLEM FOR THE DEMOCRATS ON THAT IS THE REPUBLICANS ARE GOING TO TURN OUT.

THEY ARE SO ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT VOTING AGAINST THE DEMOCRATS BECAUSE OF ECONOMIC CONDITIONS, INFLATION AND IMMIGRATION AND THE SWING VOTERS WHO ARE LOOKING TO BE LEANING TOWARDS THE REPUBLICAN PARTY THIS YEAR, STILL VOTING ON THOSE ISSUES, NOT ROE V. WADE FOR THE MOST PART.

THEY'RE VOTING ON ISSUES THAT HIT CLOSE TO HOME, INFLATION, IMMIGRATION, THINGS THEY CONSISTENTLY TELL POLLSTERS AND POLITICIANS THESE ARE THE THINGS THEY CARE ABOUT THE MOST.

TED: HOWIE MENTIONED SECRETARY OF STATE KATIE HOBBS, GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE IMMEDIATELY AFTERWARDS WAS F THE PATRIARCHY.

>> WE DON'T USE THAT WORD.

TED: NO, WE DON'T.

KARI LAKE SAID SHE'S THE MOST PRO-LIFE PERSON TO RUN FOR ARIZONA AND THUS, SHE THINKS THAT SHE WOULD NOT ENFORCE ANY RESTRICTIONS BECAUSE OF THE ARIZONA CONSTITUTION.

>> WELL, SHE'S WRONG TWO COUNTS, AND I REALIZE SHE'S AN ATTORNEY AND I'M NOT.

I ONLY PLAY ONE HERE ON TV.

NUMBER ONE, THE RIGHT TO PRIVACY, ARTICLE 2 SECTION 8 OF THE ARIZONA CONSTITUTION WAS THERE IN 1912.

ABORTION WAS ILLEGAL IN 1912.

IT ISN'T A QUESTION THAT THE FRAMEERS OF THE CONSTITUTION WOULD TRY TO MAKE ABORTION LEGAL.

NUMBER TWO, A 2011 CASE THAT WENT TO THE STATE COURT OF APPEALS WHERE THEY WERE ASKED TO LOOK AT THE ISSUE OF RIGHT TO PRIVACY AND THE JUSTICES SAID WE'RE NOT BUYING THAT, WE'RE GOING TO SHOVE THAT ASIDE BECAUSE WE CAN DECIDE ON SOMETHING ELSE.

I DON'T THINK YOU CAN RELY ON IT.

YES, WE HAVE A RIGHT TO PRIVACY, THE SUPREME COURT SAID IT NEEDS SOMETHING MORE THAN THE FOURTH AMENDMENT AND SEARCH AND SEIZURE, I DON'T THINK YOU CAN SELL THEM ON THE IDEA THAT ABORTION IS LEGAL.

>> IF ABORTION BECOMES ILLEGAL AFTER THE OVERTURNING OF ROE IN ARIZONA, NOT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL THAT IS PRIMARILY GOING TO BE ENFORCING THAT.

IT'S COUNTY ATTORNEY.

IF THERE'S QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW TO ENFORCE IT OR WHETHER IT SHOULD BE ENFORCED OR HOW MUCH PROSECUTORIAL DISCRETION PEOPLE HAVE, IT'S GOING TO FALL TO RACHEL MITCHELL OR JULIE GUNNIGLE OR WHOEVER WINS THE RACE.

>> JULIE GUNNIGLE SAID I'M NOT GOING TO, NOT BASED ON RIGHT TO PRIVACY, I GET TO EXERCISE PROSECUTORIAL DISCRETION.

RACHEL MITCHELL SAID I DON'T HAVE THAT KIND OF DISCRETION, BUT IT'S A CASE OF RAPE OR INCEST, I MAY DECIDE WE'RE NOT GOING TO PROSECUTE IT.

>> NOT SO LEFT AND RIGHT AND BLUE AND RED.

THIS HAS A LOT OF DIFFERENT LAYERS TO IT THAT MAKE IT LESS CLEAR POLITICALLY.

IT'S A POPULAR -- IT'S POPULAR TO HAVE SOME LEVEL OF ABORTION ACCESS.

NOT POPULAR TO COMPLETELY BAN IT, THAT WOULD SAY TO ME THAT THIS IS NOT SO CLEARLY LIKE DEMOCRATS VERSUS REPUBLICANS.

>> IT'S POPULAR TO HAVE FAMILY SOCIAL SERVICES FOR FAMILIES IN GENERAL.

WILL WE SEE THOSE INCREASE AT THE LEGISLATURE?

WILL LAWMAKERS WHO HAVE BEEN OPPOSED TO THEM OR HAVE NOT NECESSARILY SEEN THE LIGHT ON THIS ALL OF A SUDDEN REALIZE, HEY, WE MIGHT NEED A LOT MORE OF THIS IF A LOT OF UNPLANNED PREGNANCIES END UP WITH CHILDREN?

>> THEIR TRACK RECORD WOULD TELL ME ABSOLUTELY NOT.

WE HAVE SOME OF THE MOST STRINGENT, LOWEST LEVELS OF ACCESS FOR THE SERVICES RIGHT NOW.

OVER THE PAST DECADES HAVE DECREASED THEM INCLUDING FOUR THINGS LIKE CASH ASSISTANCE FOR VERY POOR FAMILIES.

I DON'T KNOW WHY THAT WOULD SUDDENLY CHANGE, IT'S A PHILOSOPHICAL ISSUE, BUT MAYBE, LIKE WE'VE BEEN SAYING, THE CULMINATION OF DECADES OF WORK.

MAYBE THE NEXT STEPS OF THE WORK IS SUPPORTING FAMILIES.

TED: CATHY HERROD SAYS THE PRO-LIFE MOVEMENT WOULD BE READY TO SERVE WOMEN FACING UNPLANNED PREGNANCIES AND THEIR BABIES.

PRIVATE AGENCIES, FAITH-BASED GROUPS, WHAT ABOUT THE GOVERNMENT?

WHAT ABOUT TAKING CARE OF ALL THE FOLKS.

>> ALL GOOD AND WELL, YOU CAN GO TO THE NONPROFIT OR RELIGIOUS GROUP OR WHATEVER.

IF YOU WANT CONSISTENCY AND GUARANTEED INSURED ACCESS FOR SERVICES FOR WOMEN WHO CAN'T NECESSARILY AFFORD IT, THE GOVERNMENT HAS TO STEP IN AND PROVIDE THAT, AND AS RACHEL SAID, THE TRACK RECORD AT THE CAPITOL WOULD CERTAINLY SUGGEST WE'RE NOT GOING TO SEE MORE OF THAT.

I CAN SEE A BIGGER PUSH FOR THIS FROM THE LEFT.

THINGS THAT WOULD BE MORE BROADLY POPULAR, A MATTER OF CAN YOU PRESSURE THE LEGISLATURE TO PASS IT?

CAN YOU GET IT PASSED AT THE BALLOT, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

>> GO A STEP BEYOND THAT.

IF, IN FACT, YOU WANT TO PREVENT ABORTION AND THE NEED FOR ABORTION, PERHAPS FOR CERTAIN PEOPLE, CERTAIN INCOME, THE STATES SHOULD FUND CONTRACEPTIVES, BIRTH CONTROL AND, OH, MY GOD, THE WORLD WOULD END.

TED: RACHEL, ARIZONA AGENDA WROTE ABOUT THE FACT THERE COULD BE A CITIZEN'S INITIATIVE COMING OUT OF THIS TALK.

TALK TO US ABOUT THAT.

>> FAR ALONG IN THE POLITICAL CYCLE, IT WOULD BE PROHIBITIVELY EXPENSIVE.

THE DEMOCRATIC GROUPS I'VE TALKED WITH, THAT WAS EXACTLY WHERE THEY WENT TO RIGHT AWAY.

IN 2024, THE BEST BET IS NOT RELYING ON THE LEGISLATURE, THE ONLY WAY WE'VE GOTTEN PROGRESSIVE POLICIES IN THE PAST COUPLE YEARS IS THROUGH THE BALLOT PROCESS.

THEY'RE EYEING THAT.

I THINK THEY WOULD GO A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT ROUTE, AND, YOU KNOW, IN THE 90s, THERE WAS A BALLOT ISSUE THAT WOULD OUTRIGHT BAN ABORTIONS AND THAT FAILED SPECTACULARLY.

THIS ISN'T SOMETHING THE BALLOT ASKED ASIDE FROM.

THAT IT WOULD BE CURIOUS HOW IT WORKS.

>> I WANT TO SEE HOW IT'S WORDED.

IF YOU SELL THE IDEA AT THE BALLOT, THERE'S AN ABSOLUTE RIGHT TO ABORTION.

THROUGH WHAT?

8 MONTHS AND 28 DAYS?

THAT LOSES YOU PEOPLE.

THROUGH VIABILITY?

VIABILITY IS NOT A STANDARD YOU CAN COUNT ON ANYMORE BECAUSE THAT'S THE MOVING TARGET.

DO YOU SAY 12 WEEKS, 8 WEEKS, 15 WEEKS?

THAT'S THE PROBLEM CRAFTING THE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT IS THAT YOU HAVE TO PUT IN SOME NUMBER THERE, AND I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE REAL DIFFICULT, EVEN IN 2024.

TED: THAT NUMBER HAS TO HOLD, ONCE YOU GET IT IN THE CONSTITUTION, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT.

ONE LAST POINT, SENATOR SINEMA'S OFFICE COULDN'T WAIT TO SAY DON'T ASK ME ABOUT THE FILIBUSTER, WE'RE NOT GETTING RID OF THAT JUST TO ADDRESS ROE V. WADE.

>> PEOPLE ASK WHY CAN'T THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TAKE CARE OF THIS SINCE THE DEMOCRATS CONTROL THE WHITE HOUSE AND BOTH CHAMBERS OF CONGRESS.

YOU WOULD NEED TO BREAK A FILIBUSTER IN ORDER TO PASS ANYTHING, AND SENATOR SINEMA AND SENATOR MANCHIN IN WEST VIRGINIA ARE HOLDING FAST ON THAT AND THIS IS NOT PERSUADED AS SENATOR SINEMA FOR MOST OF HER CAREER AS SHE LURCHED TO THE RIGHT ON THE ISSUES VIEWED FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE CAREER A MORE RADICAL LEFTIST TO NOW IS A STAUNCH MODERATE AS A SUPPORTER OF ABORTION RIGHTS, AND STILL THIS IS STILL NOT THE ISSUE THAT'S GOING TO SWAY HER OFF OF THE FILIBUSTER POSITION.

TED: WE SHOULD MENTION WHAT HER OFFICE SAID BECAUSE OF THE FILIBUSTER WHEN REPUBLICANS HAD CONTROL, WE WERE ABLE TO FIGHT BACK CERTAIN EFFORTS TO RESTRICT ABORTION.

SHE WAS TRYING TO -- IT'S A POINT.

>> IT IS A POINT BUT THE ARIZONA LEGISLATURE MANAGED TO SURVIVE WITHOUT A 60% MAJORITY RULE TO PASS BILLS.

THINGS HAPPEN, YOU'RE RIGHT.

WHEN WINDS CHANGE AND PEOPLE CHANGE, THE NATURE OF POLICIES CHANGE.

THAT'S JUST THE NATURE OF IT.

NOW THE ONE WAY TO GET IT LOCKED IN, AND THIS GOES BACK TO RACHEL'S POINT, PUT IT ON THE BALLOT AND IF IT'S VOTER PROTECTED, LAWMAKERS ARE STUCK WITH IT.

>> RIGHT, RIGHT, RACHEL, LET'S MOVE ON HERE.

THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS AND ATTORNEY GENERAL, THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS A POINT-BY-POINT RESPONSE TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S INITIAL FINDINGS FROM INVESTIGATION ON THE AUDIT -- I HATE THAT WORD.

THE AUDIT AND VOTES IN MARICOPA COUNTY AND THEY CAME OUT GUNS ABLAZING, DIDN'T THEY?

>> AND HE CAME OUT AND SAID BE NICE TO EACH OTHER, WHICH IS IRONIC.

IT'S A CONTINUATION OF -- I'M LOSING TRACK OF TIME, WE'RE NEARLY TO THE NEXT ELECTION, I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY REFUTING LETTERS CAN GO BACK AND FORTH.

I DON'T KNOW WHO THEY'RE CONVINCING AT THIS POINT BUT THINK THE COUNTY SEES IT AS IT IS OUR JOB TO PUT THE FACTS OUT THERE REGARDLESS OF WHETHER PEOPLE ARE LISTENING ANYMORE.

TED: AND NOT JUST THE FACTS, BUT BASICALLY HE WAS PERPETUATING THE BIG LIE, THAT'S A QUOTE.

YOU CAN'T PLAY POLITICS WITH INSTRUMENTS OF THE LAW.

YOU CAN'T PLAY POLITICS WITH PROSECUTORIAL POWER.

>> POLITICS PLAYED BY THE ATTORNEY GENERAL?

TED: TALKING TO YOU ATTORNEY GENERAL.

>> THE PROBLEM IS THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IS RUNNING FOR U.S. SENATE.

HASN'T BEEN GOING WELL FOR THE GUY WHO SHOULD PRESUMPTIVELY BE THE LEADER, BASED ON NAME ID.

GETTING PRESSURE FROM THE RIGHT AGAIN, THE THING IN TERMS OF PEOPLE WHO SAY STOP THE STEAL.

WHY HAVEN'T YOU INDICTED ANYBODY?

YOU CAME OUT WITH THE INTERIM REPORT, NO FRAUD IN THERE, JUST A BUNCH OF ALLEGATIONS WARMED OVER FROM THE CYBER NINJAS AUDIT.

PEOPLE ON THE OTHER SIDE SAYING WHY ARE YOU PURSUING THIS?

HE'S FLAILING ABOUT.

THIS WAS A GUY WHO WENT ON TV SHORTLY AFTER THE 2020 ELECTION AND SAID, LOOK, DONALD TRUMP LOST.

PEOPLE SPLIT THEIR TICKET.

IT HAPPENS IN A PLACE LIKE ARIZONA, AND HE'S BASICALLY PAYING FOR IT.

TED: I THINK CHAIRMAN GATES, THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS SAID THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S CLAIM THEY WEREN'T COOPERATING WAS FALSE AND DESPICABLE.

>> AND PRESENTED A BUNCH OF EXAMPLES OF HERE'S ALL THE COMMUNICATIONS WE'VE HAD WITH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE, E-MAILS THAT SAY THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR COOPERATION, YOU SUBMIT A RECORDS REQUEST NOT SUBPOENAS, SOMETIMES TAKE TIME TO FULFILL.

WE KNOW HERE AS JOURNALISTS, WE SUBMITTED A REQUEST FOR THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE FOR ALL THE RECORDS THEY'VE GOTTEN SO THEY CAN SHOW US HOW LONG IT TAKES TO FULFILL ALL OF THOSE.

THEY CALLED THAT THE MOST, SOME OF THEM CALLED THAT THE MOST OFFENSIVE PART OF THE ALLEGATION BECAUSE THERE HASN'T BEEN COOPERATION OVER THE SEVEN MONTHS OR YEARS OR DECADES OR HOWEVER LONG IT'S GOING ON.

TED: AND AGAIN, AS RACHEL MENTIONED, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SAID FAIR ELECTIONS MAINTAIN ACCURACY AND PROMOTE PUBLIC CONFIDENCE.

HE NEEDS TO BACK AWAY FROM THIS?

IS THAT THE BEST COURSE OF ACTION?

>> IT'S TELLING WHEN YOU'RE SAYING ONE THING TO ONE GROUP OF PEOPLE AND ANOTHER THING TO ANOTHER GROUP OF PEOPLE.

THE WAY HE SPOKE ON THE PODCAST IS DIFFERENT FROM THE THINGS HE SAID SPEAKING TO A GENERAL AUDIENCE.

THAT SPEAKS TO SOME LEVEL OF POLITICAL MANEUVERING BECAUSE YOU'RE RUNNING FOR ANOTHER OFFICE.

TED: IS THAT MANEUVERING WORKING, JEREMY?

>> I DON'T THINK SO.

THE PEOPLE WHO ARE MOST FIRED UP IN THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY ABOUT ELECTION FRAUD AND THE FAKE RIGGING THAT THE ELECTION HAPPENED, THEY ARE MAD AT BRNOVICH, IN THE MEANTIME, ANYONE ELSE WHO MIGHT GRAVITATE HIM BECAUSE HE WAS THE ONE PERSON STANDING AGAINST IT IS TURNED OFF THAT NOW.

HE SAYS WE NEED TO PROMOTE CONFIDENCE IN THE ELECTION, HE'S DOING THE EXACT OPPOSITE BY THROWING OUT CLAIMS HE CAN'T BACK UP.

FOR ALL THE POINT BY POINT REBUTTALS THAT THE COUNTY OFFERED, THE AG'S OFFICE REFUSED TO ANSWER QUESTIONS ABOUT THE DUBIOUS CLAIMS AND ALL BEEN ASKING, THEY CANNOT BACK ANY OF THESE CLAIMS UP.

>> WE'RE ALL WAITING FOR THE LATE JULY SURPRISE.

I HAVE A FEELING THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE -- SOMEBODY IS GOING TO GET CHARGED IN JULY.

MAY NOT BE A BIG CHARGE, BUT HE'S GOING TO SAY LOOK, I BROUGHT CRIMINAL CHARGES -- I DON'T MEAN THE WOMAN WHO VOTED FOR HER DEAD MOTHER.

THAT'S A HAIL MARY.

THERE'S SOMETHING HE'S COUNTING ON TO TROT OUT WHEN THE BALLOTS COME OUT.

>> IN THE MEANTIME, WE'RE GOING TO SEE A TRUMP ENDORSEMENT LIKE THIS.

A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO CLAIM TO BE BLAKE MASTERS, IT'S NOT GOING TO BE MARK BRNOVICH.

>> WHY DO YOU JUST NOT BE TRUE TO YOURSELF?

ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE SOMEBODY WHO OVER THE COURSE OF TIME IN OFFICE HAS BEEN A STRAIGHT SHOOTER.

SEEMS INCONGRUENT FROM WHO HE HAD BEEN AS ATTORNEY GENERAL.

TED: THAT'S WHY PEOPLE ARE CONFUSED.

REAL QUICKLY, JANUARY 6 COMMISSION HAS A FORMAL REQUEST TO CONGRESSMAN BIGGS, WANT TO MEET WITH HIM ABOUT MEETINGS AT THE WHITE HOUSE AND BIGGS RESPONDED HOW?

>> HE SAID THIS IS A WITCH-HUNT, LIKE THE SALEM WITCH TRIALS, NOT GOING TO PARTICIPATE AND IN THE MEANTIME, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO GET TO ASK HIM ABOUT THE MEETINGS AT THE WHITE HOUSE WHERE THEY WERE PLOTTING TO STEAL THE ELECTION THROUGH HAVING LEGISLATURES, APPOINT ELECTORS AND TRYING TO GET PARDONS FOR PEOPLE INVOLVED JANUARY 6.

A LOT OF THINGS CONGRESSMAN BIGGS CAN SHED LIGHT ON, CLEARLY NOT DOING THAT.

TED: IS HE IN TROUBLE THIS ELECTION?

THERE'S AN INDEPENDENT OUT THERE.

>> WELL, WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME WE ELECTED INDEPENDENT?

WE HAD AN INDEPENDENT IN THE LEGISLATURE BECAUSE SHE SHIFTED PARTIES IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SESSION AND COULDN'T GET RE-ELECTED AS AN INDEPENDENT.

TED: THE RUSSELL PEARCE SITUATION, WE SAW HOW THAT WORKED.

>> RUSSELL PEARCE, THERE WAS A RECALL AND UNIFORM ELECTION, SO THERE WERE NO PARTIES THERE.

BUT THERE IS A PRIMARY, AND THEN THE FACT IS THAT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE ANDY WINS THE PRIMARY, HAVE YOU INDEPENDENT ON THE BALLOT.

PEOPLE TEND TO VOTE PARTY.

YOU REALLY NEED SOMETHING SPECIAL LIKE A CRIMINAL INDICTMENT, LIKE SOMETHING ELSE.

BIGGS IS A HOUSEHOLD NAME OUT THERE.

PLENTY OF MONEY, NAME ID, HE'S GOING TO WALK BACK.

HE DOESN'T SEE DOWNSIDE TO TELLING THE COMMITTEE TO STICK IT.

TED: NO TROUBLE AT ALL?

>> THERE IS STILL A DEMOCRAT IN THE RACE AS WELL.

TED: THE INDEPENDENT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE FIRST GUY.

>> IF YOU'RE THE INDEPENDENT THINKING I CAN GET THE DEMOCRAT VOTES AND LOT OF INDEPENDENTS AND DISAFFECTED REPUBLICANS, YEAH, THAT GETS BLOWN TO HECK IF YOU STILL HAVE A DEMOCRAT ON THE BALLOT GETTING MOST OF THE DEMOCRAT VOTERS' SUPPORT.

TED: ANY PROBLEM FOR HIM AT ALL?

>> NO.

TED: NOT A BIT?

>> I MEAN, I DON'T THINK THAT DISTRICT IS REALLY FOLLOWING CLOSELY THE JANUARY 6 COMMITTEE'S WORK, AND LIKE ANXIOUSLY AWAITING WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO.

TED: YOU DON'T THINK SO?

>> NO.

TED: HOWIE, WRAP IT UP WITH YOU, AND YOU'RE COVERING THIS.

WE GOT AN EXECUTION SCHEDULED FOR NEXT WEEK.

THE FIRST ONE IN EIGHT YEARS.

>> YES, THAT ASSUMES THE COUPLE OF COURT CASES PENDING THIS AFTERNOON DON'T OVERTURN THAT.

CLARENCE DIXON MURDERED AN ASU CO-ED BACK IN THE 70s AND WAS CAUGHT YEARS LATER WITH A DNA MATCH BECAUSE HE WAS SERVING TIME ON SOMETHING ELSE.

HE'S RUN THROUGH ALL OF HE'S APPEALS, POST-CONVICTION RELIEF, ANYTHING HE COULD DO.

DOWN TO TWO ISSUES, HIS ATTORNEYS CONTEND HE IS NOT MENTALLY COMPETENT.

THERE IS CASE LAW THAT SAYS IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY YOU ARE EXECUTED, THE STATE CAN'T EXECUTE YOU.

TRIAL JUDGE SAID, NO, HE'S MAYBE SCHIZOPHRENIC BUT UNDERSTANDS WHAT'S GOING ON.

THE OTHER PENDING IN FEDERAL COURT THIS AFTERNOON HAS TO DO WITH THE QUESTION THAT THE STATE HAD PROBLEMS EXPLAINING WHERE THEY'RE GETTING DRUGS BECAUSE NO REPUTABLE PHARMACY IS GOING TO SELL DRUGS SO WE GET THEM FROM OVERSEAS.

ARE THEY EXPIRED?

BECAUSE THE RULES SAY YOU CANNOT USE EXPIRED DRUGS BECAUSE MAYBE YOU WOULD BOTCH THE EXECUTION.

WE'VE HAD BOTCHED EXECUTIONS WITH PEOPLE GETTING MULTIPLE DOSES OF THE PENT BASHATHOL, WE PROVIDE ALL THE INFORMATION, FOLLOW THE LAW, WE SHOULD JUST LET HIM BE EXECUTED AS SCHEDULED ON MAY 11.

TED: LOOK AT THE POLITICAL ASPECTS -- BEING UNCOUTH ABOUT THIS, AN EXECUTION IN ARIZONA DOES, THAT SWAY AN ELECTORATE?

DOES IT SWAY MARK BRNOVICH'S ATTORNEY GENERAL AT ALL?

>> PEOPLE HAVE OBVIOUSLY STRONG OPINIONS ABOUT CAPITAL PUNISHMENT, THIS ISN'T ANIMATING ANYONE AT THE POLLS, ESPECIALLY IF THERE IS ROOM FOR ISSUES WHOEVER IS VOTING ON IT ALREADY, THE ROE V. WADE THING OVERSHADOWED IT PRETTY WELL.

>> FRANK ATWOOD, THE NEXT PERSONING TO EXECUTED SAID FACTUALLY I DIDN'T DO IT.

TED: RIGHT, BUT THERE ARE FOLKS WHO ARE AGAINST IT.

>> AGAINST THE DEATH PENALTY, WHICH GETS INTO INTERESTING QUESTIONS, IF YOU SAY YOU'RE PRO-LIFE, CAN YOU BE PRO-LIFE ON ABORTION BUT NOT SO MUCH ON THE DEATH PENALTY?

SOMEHOW FOLKS MANAGE TO HOLD THE INCONSISTENT THINGS IN THEIR BRAIN.

TED: ANY POLITICAL BACKLASH?

>> THERE IS QUESTION HOW DO YOU EXECUTE SOMEBODY IN A WAY THAT IS HUMANE?

YOU HAVE NOT GREAT TRACK RECORD ON THAT.

I THINK DEPENDING HOW IT GOES, THAT MAYBE LEADS INTO HOW PEOPLE FEEL ABOUT IT.

TED: WE WILL WRAP IT UP RIGHT THERE.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

THAT IS IT FOR NOW, I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.

COMING UP IN THE NEXT HALF HOUR OF LOCAL NEWS ON ARIZONA PBS.

ON "BREAK IT DOWN," A LOOK INTO THE REPRESENTATION, HORRORS AND RAVES AROUND THE MOVIE "ENCANTO."