>> Ted: IT'S THE JOURNALIST'S ROUNDTABLE INCLUDING THE LATEST, KARI LAKE ADVENTURES IN COURT.

THAT'S NEXT ON ARIZONA HORIZON.

IT'S TIME FOR THE JOURNALIST'S ROUNDTABLE AND JOINING US NOW, BOB CHR IRKAND PANHANDLE, GOOD TO HAVE YOU AND BOB, RECORDING THIS, FROM THE KARI LAKE TRIAL, CLOSING ARGUMENTS AND A JUDGE HAS IT AND WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS AND FOR NOW, WHAT IS THIS ALL ABOUT AND WE COULD TALK ABOUT THIS FOR HOURS, JUST THERE ARE CERTAIN INCONGRUITIES THAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND.

>> THE ONE PART OF THE CHALLENGE HAS TO DO WITH BALLOT BOOKS AND ANYBODY WHO VOTED BY MAIL AND YOU STICK IT IN THE ENVELOPE AND YOUR DATE AND PHONE NUMBERS TO CONTACT THEM IF YOU NEED TO.

SHE'S ALLEGING THE COUNTY DID NOT VERIFY THOSE SIGNATURES WERE FROM THE VOTER AND THIS COMES DOWN TO, YOU KNOW, 1.5 MILLION BALLOTS, GIVE OR TAKE, MAYBE OFF A FEW AND THEY HAVE TO HAVE THAT SIGNATURE CHECKED AFTER THE ELECTION.

BEFORE YOU OPEN THE ENVELOPE, TAKE THE BALLOT OUT.

THEY SAY THEY SPEND AN AVERAGE OF TWO AND A HALF OR THREE SECONDS WHO TESTIFIED AND THEY SAY THREE NOT IN THE VERIFICATION THAT THE LAW SAYS.

THE COUNTY SAYS, NO, NO, IF YOU LOOK AT A SIGNATURE RIGHT NEXT TO EACH OTHER AND MOST OF THE TIME, YOU CAN TELL IT'S A MATCH OR DOESN'T MATCH AND THAT'S WHERE WE ARE.

>> Ted: THAT'S WHERE WE ARE AND THE CLAIM FROM KARI LAKE IS THAT, THAT IS NOT VERIFICATION IN THE LEGAL SENSE?

>> INITIALLY, IT WAS SAID THERE WAS NO VERIFICATION AND TESTIMONY PRESENTED AT TRIAL SHOWED THERE WAS A VERIFICATION PROCESS BECAUSE KARI LAKE'S OWN WITNESSES TESTIFIED TO THE TRAINING THAT THEY HAD AND THE PRESSURE THEY HAD TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY WERE CHECKING THE SIGNATURES PROPERLY.

AND THEN, THE NEXT DAY, IT SWITCHES TO SAY, IF YOU WEREN'T SPENDING ENOUGH TIME AND SORT OF TO BOB'S POINT, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES YOU CAN TAKE A LOOK AT A SIGNATURE AND WHAT WAS ON THE ENVELOPE AND SAY, YEP, THAT'S THE SAME PERSON.

I WILL POINT OUT, I BELIEVE THE CYBERNINJAS DID THAT QUICK VERIFICATION SETTING UP SHOP AND SPINNING THINGS AROUND ON THOSE LAZY SUSANS.

>> Ted: THE JUDGEA THISAND THE JUDGE SAID YOU NEED TO PROVE NO VERIFICATION OCCURRED AND JIM, IMMINENT IT SEEMED LIKE EVERY WITNESS TALKED ABOUT HOW THAT WENT ON.

>> THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED.

THEY HAD, WHAT THEY WERE CALLING WHISTLEBLOWERS HIRED BY THE COUNTY AND PAID SIGNATURE VERIFIERS AND BOTH OF THEM GOT UP ON THE WITNESS STAND AND TALKED ABOUT, LIKE MARY JO SAID, THE TRAINING THEY WENT THROUGH AND HOW DILIGENTLY THEY SERIOUSLY THEY TOOK THEIR JOBS.

AT LEAST ONE OR BOTH OF THEM WORKED ON THE CURE TEAM.

THIS IS WHEN SIGNATURES DON'T MATCH.

WHEN A SIGNATURE DOES GET FLAGGED FOR BEING DIFFERENT THAN WHAT THEY HAVE ON THE FILE OR TACTING THE VOTER TO SAY, SAY, HEY, SAY, DID YOU CONTACT THIS BALLOT.

WHAT'S AT ISSUE, THEY DON'T LIKE THE OUTK ELECTION OUTCOME OF THE ELECTION.

THEY'RE TRYING TO STRETCH THE WINDOW OF WHAT IS A COMPARISON BY ARGUING THAT ESSENTIALLY THESE WEREN'T IN-DEPTH FORENSIC COMPARISONS FOR AN EXTRA WITNESS IN A TRIAL OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

THAT WAS ONE OF THE PEOPLE THEY BROUGHT INTO TESTIFY WAS SOMEONE WHO DOES THAT WORK, FORENSIC SIGNATURE AND HANDWRITING ANALYSIS.

THAT'S NOT WHAT THE LAW REQUIRES AND THAT'S NOT WHAT STATE ELECTIONS REQUIRE OR MARICOPA COUNTY OR ANY OTHER COUNTY DOES, EITHER.

THEY JUST COMPARE TO SEE, ARE THE BROAD CHARACTERISTICS OF THESE SIGNATURES THE SAME.

IF THEY ARE?

IT GOES THROUGH AND IF THEY'RE NOT, THEY FLAG IT AND FOLLOW UP.

>> Ted: THAT'S NOT WHAT THE JUDGE ASKS FOR AND FROM A DISTANCE THAT THE WITNESSES THAT THE LAKE TEAM BROUGHT UP WERE HURTING THEIR CASE.

>> I THINK WHEN MARYJO SAYS THE ARGUMENT THEY'RE STUCK WITH IS, THEY MAY HAVE DONE WHAT APPEARS ON THE SURFACE, AND JUDGE, ON THE SURFACE, IT LOOKS LIKE SIGNATURE VERIFICATION AND OUR EXPERTS SAY THEY CAN'T VERIFY A SIGNATURE THAT QUICK AND TRYING TO ARGUE THAT A SIGNATURE VERIFICATION IS MORE THAN JUST COMPARING BOB C CHRISTY'S VERIFICATION AND NO DOUBT WHO SIGNED THAT PAPER.

AND THAT'S WHAT THE COUNTY DOES.

AND KARI LAKE'S PEOPLE SAID THAT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

>> Ted: THE JUDGE TAKES THIS UNDER ADVISEMENT AND CLOSING STATEMENTS ARE MADE IN THE LATE HOURS AND WE DON'T EXPECT ANYTHING, I THINK?

>> YOU KNOW JUDGES, WE'LL HAVE A RULING IN DUE TIME.

I MEAN, IT'S BEEN A THREE-DAY TRIAL AND ARGUABLY, HE'S GOT A LOT TO GO OVER OR MAYBE NOT?

SO I MEAN, I'M NOT PUTTING ANY MONEY DOWN ON WHEN WE MIGHT SEE A RULING.

>> BY RULING, HE HAS 60 DAYS TO ISSUE AN OPINION.

THIS JUDGE, I BELIEVE, WILL PROBABLY RULE WITHIN -- BY THE NEXT JOURNALIST'S ROUNDTABLE NEXT WEEK, YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO TALK ABOUT THE RULES AND HE KNOWS WHATEVER HE WRITES AND HE WILL WRITE A THOROUGH RULING WILL BE APPEALED AND AT THE SUPREME COURT AND HE'LL DO A THOROUGH JOB.

>> HE KIND OF ELUDED TO THAT.

IN THURSDAY'S PART OF THE HEARING, YOU KNOW, AT ONE POINT, THERE WAS A DISPUTE AMONGST THE ATTORNEYS ABOUT SOME PROCEDURE AND ABOUT HOW LENIENT THE JUDGE WOULD BE IF THEY KEPT MAKING A NUMBER OF PROCEDURAL ERRORS AND MISSTEPS.

HE SAID, LOOK, IN SEVEN MONTHS, I DON'T WANT THIS COMING BACK HERE AND DEALING WITH THIS BECAUSE I SAID YOU COULDN'T ASK THIS QUESTION, THAT ANOTHER JUDGE WOULD SAY, WELL, YOU GOT THAT DECISION WRONG, SO WE'RE GOING TO -- WE'LL MAKE YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH A THIRD TRIAL, ESSENTIALLY.

AND SO HE WAS GOING, I THINK, OUT OF HIS WAY AND IT'S A BENCH TRIAL AND A LATITUDE TO DO THAT AND JUST TRY TO HEAR EVERYTHING AND IN HIS RULING, HE'LL DECIDE WHAT GETS WEIGHT AND DISCOUNTED AND WHAT HE CONSIDERS.

>> Ted: DOESN'T WANT THE SUPREME COURT TO SEND IT BACK SAYING X WASN'T DOTTED AND WHY WASN'T CROSSED?

>> HE KNOWS WHATEVER HE WRITES WILL BE REVIEWED AND HE WANTS IT TO BE CORRECT.

>> Ted: MARY JO, FIRST OF ALL, ARE SANCTIONS A POSSIBILITY IN THIS CASE IF IT GOES AGAINST KARI LAKE'S TEAM?

>> I'M NOT FAMILIAR IF THERE'S A FILING.

USUALLY IF A JUDGE ISSUES A RULING, THEY WILL INVITE JUDGES FOR SANCTION IF THEY SO CHOOSE.

TEE IS THERE >> Ted: IS THERE A LIKELIHOOD BY THE SAME TEAM?

>> THEY HAVE THE, WHAT, $2,000 SANCTION FOR ANOTHER VERSION OF A CHALLENGE TO THIS.

I THINK THERE IS, YOU KNOW, GROWING ONE UNREST.

THE ONLY WAY TO STOP THESE LAWSUITS THAT MANY PEOPLE VIEW AS FRIVOLOUS AND GOING NO WHERE ANDNOWHERETHAT YOU HAVE TO HIT THE ATTORNEYS AND MAYBE THE PLAINTIFFS WITH SIGNIFICANT MONETARY SANCTIONS.

>> Ted: WHAT DO YOU THINK, JIM?

IS THAT A LIKELIHOOD OR TOUGH TO SAY IN.

>> DEPENDS ON HOW THE JUDGE RULES AND OTHER PARTS OF THIS CASE THAT WERE ISSUED WERE BASED ONLY THINGS THAT HAPPENED AT THE APPELLATE RULE OR NOT EVEN AT THE TRIAL LEVEL.

I THINK THERE'S A LOT LEFT TO SAY WHAT WILL HAPPEN AND A PUSH FROM, MAYBE, FOLKS LIKE GOVERNOR HOBBS OR STATE FONTES.

>> Ted: WILL THERE BE MORE COURT ACTION FROM KARI LAKE AND THIS STORY COULD POSSIBLY HAVE ENDED.

WE MAY HAVE HIT THE CUL-DE-SAC AND IS THERE ANOTHER ROAD OPENING UP?

>> THESE BEEN TO THE SUPREME COURT AND THE SUPREME COURT UPHOLD THIS SAME JUDGE'S RULING AGAINST HER ON THE THREE MAJOR ISSUES.

ALL THAT'S LEFT IS THE SUPREME COURT REVIVED THIS ONE TINY ISSUE OF DID THE COUNTY ADEQUATELY REVIEW THE SIGNATURES?

IT'S A HUGE ISSUE IF THEY WIN, BUT THAT'S THE ONLY ISSUE LEFT.

NOTHING ELSE IS ALIVE.

THE ELECTION CHALLENGES ARE CREATURES OF STATUTE.

>> Ted: YOU SAY IF THEY WIN AND WE ASSUME, AT LEAST SOME OF US DO ASSUME THEY'LL LOSE.

LESSHE SAYS I'M NOT CRAZY ABOUT THIS AND SHE WANTS TO BE DECLARED GOVERNOR OR HAVE MARICOPA COUNTY REVOTE.

ANY POSSIBILITY OF EITHER/OR?

>> POTENTIALLY A REVOTE.

IF INDEED, KARI LAKE WINS THIS CHALLENGE, IT'S VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE, I THINK, THE JUDGE WOULD SAY NO, KATIE HOBBS IS GOVERNOR AND COULD ORDER A RETRIAL.

>> IN RELATED TRIAL NEWS, ABE HAMADEH FOR THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, HE WAS ARGUING IN COURT AS HE CONTINUES TO ARGUE HIS LOSS, THAT HE POINTS TO A RULING FROM 1916, I THINK, FROM THE ARIZONA SUPREME COURT, WHICH OVERTURNED THE RESULTS OF A GUBERNATORIAL ELECTION.

AND I THINK BETWEEN CAMPBELL AND HUNT.

YOU CAN HANG YOUR HAT ON THAT ONE.

>> Ted: THAT SAME TRIAL, HE WANTS TO BE DECLARED BECAUSE OF THIS, HE WANTS TO BE DECLARED ATTORNEY GENERAL.

>> YES.

>> CORRECT.

THAT'S A MUCH TIGHTER RACE, OBVIOUSLY.

IT'S THE CLOSEST STATE-WIDE RACE IN HISTORY OF ARIZONA 200 SOME ODD VOTES.

POTENTIALLY, IF HE IS ALLOWED TO DO WHAT THEY WANT TO DO.

THEY WANT TO LOOK AT UNDERVOTES, THIS ARE BALLOTS THAT DID NOT SHOW A VOTE FOR MAYES OR HOLIDAY AND BE ABLE TO REVIEW THOSE BALLOTS TO SEE IF THERE WAS SOMETHING MISSED.

>> Ted: JIM, ISN'T THE CLAIM THAT THE SECRETARY OF STATE, HOBBS, TRIED TO HIDE THESE VOTES?

>> YEAH.

I THINK THERE'S A NUMBER OF CLAIMS THAT THEY'RE MAKING TO MEASURE PROVISIONAL BALLOTS THAT WEREN'T REGISTERED TO VOTE AND A CLAIM AGAINST THE SECRETARY OF STATE'S OF OFFICE DOING THE MANDATED VOTE THAT DURING THAT SOCIETY, PINAL COUNTY, THE ISSUES THERE, THEY DISCOVERED THOSE ISSUES DURING THAT RECOUNT, DURING THE STATE MANDATED RECOUNT AND THEIR NUMBERS CHANGED IN THE RACE.

ALL OTHER COUNTIES HAD VOTES HERE AND THERE AND THAT HAD SEVERAL HUNDRED VOTES THAT CHANGED.

THE ARGUMENT IS THAT KATIE HOBBS KNEW ABOUT IT BECAUSE PINAL COUNTY REPORTED THAT BACK TO HER AND THE TRIAL WAS ONGOING BACK AT THE SAME TIME.

SHE WAS OBLIGATED TO TURN THAT OVER TO, I GUESS, TO THE HAMADEH CAMPAIGN AND MAYES' CAMPAIGN.

STATE LAW FROM THE SECRETARY OF STATE'S OFFICE, IS THAT STATE CLAW ISLAW IS CLEAR TO BE RELEASED TO THE JUDGE.

AN ELECTION AT THE STATE LEVEL IS NOT ALLOWED TO STATE ANYTHING AND IF THEY DO, THEY COMMIT A CRIME.

>> Ted: ISN'T THE LEVEL HERE THAT IT WOULD HAVE CHANGED THE OUTCOME OF THE ELECTION?

I MEAN, I THOUGHT THAT WAS THE BOTTOM LINE HERE.

>> YES, WITH BON BOTH CASES, THAT'S WHAT THE ARGUMENT IS.

AS BOB POINTED OUT, THE AG'S RACE WAS CLOSE.

YOU HAVE PROBABLY A BETTER ARGUMENT THERE, EXCEPT YOU'RE HINGING IT ON EVIDENCE THAT COULDN'T BE PRESENTED AND KNOWN AT THE TIME.

>> Ted: THAT WOULD BE EVERY ONE AND ALMOST EVERY ONE OF THESE BALLOTS THAT WERE HIDDEN AND WENT TO ABE HAMADEH.

>> FROM THE FEW HUNDRED THAT WERE NOT COUNTED IN THE INITIAL COINCIDENT WHENCOUNT AND THE NUMBERS WERE VIRTUALLY PERFECT FOR EVERY COUNTY EXCEPT PINAL COUNTY WHICH SOMEONE DIDN'T COUNT THE ONE COUNT AND WHICH DIDN'T CHANGE THE ONE COUNT.

IF I'M GOING FOR MAYES, THE OTHER 14 COUNTIES ARE PERFECT AND YOU CAN'T OPEN UP A WHOLE ACTION WHICH ARE STATUTORY -- THEY'RE PRESUMED TO BE ACCURATE.

THE ELECTION WORKERS ARE PRESUMED TO BE IN GOOD FAITH AND PRESUMED TO NOT BE SUBJECT TO FRAUD.

YOU KNOW, THEY'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING FRAUDULENT.

YOU HAVE A LOT OF PRESUMPTIONS TO GET OVER.

>> Ted: THE TRIAL IS IN MOHAVE COUNTY, CORRECT?

>> YES.

IT WAS TO CONSIDER THE ARGUMENT FROM THE HAMADEH CAMPAIGN THAT A NEW TRIAL SHOULD HAPPEN.

SO WHERE WE'RE AT IS WAITING FOR A JUDGE ON WHETHER THE TRIAL WILL GO FORWARD OR NOT.

>> Ted: LET'S GET TO THINGS THAT ARE EASIER FOR ME, AT LEAST, TO UNDERSTAND.

OH, NO, NOT THIS ONE, THE LEGISLATURE IS ON A BREAK, MARY JO, WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?

>> THE FOURTH BREAK, I THINK OF ANY SIZEABLE AMOUNT, OTHER THAN A LONG WEEKEND BY MY COUNT.

AND THEY HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE TAKING VACATIONS.

THEY'RE DOING, I'VE HEARD, GETTING MARRIED, YOU KNOW, DOING OTHER THINGS THAT ARE, I GUESS MORE IMPORTANT THAN LEGISLATIVE WORK.

EVEN THOUGH IT'S MADE PRETTY CLEAR TO LAWMAKERS THAT THE LEGISLATURE RUNS INTO JUNE AT LEAST IN RECENT YEARS.

BUT THEY NEED TIME TO WORK OUT ISSUES, ESPECIALLY ON THE PROPOSITION 400 EXTENSION BILL WHICH WOULD ALLOW MARICOPA COUNTY TO ALLOW A TRANSPORTATION TAX ELECTION.

THEY'VE GOT HOUSING ISSUES THAT ARE BUBBLING AROUND.

THOSE SEEM TO BE THE REAL BIG ONES THAT ARE STILL OUT THERE.

AND THOSE ARE DIFFICULT ISSUES.

THERE'S A REASON THOSE BILLS HAVEN'T MOVED OR GOTTEN TO A FINISH LINE YET.

>> Ted: BOB, BEFORE THEY LEFT THE SENATE LIKE THE WHOLE BUNCH OF FLURRY OF ACTIVITY, LIKE IT TOOK THREE SECONDS OR LEFT TO READ THE BILLS.

>> THIS IS THE HOUSE THAT MOVED OUT 90 BILLS AND THAT'S VOTING AND TALKING ABOUT YOUR VOTE.

SO IT WAS A VOTE-A RAMA.

SOME WENT DOWN, UP TO THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE WHERE A PORTION WILL NOT GET HER SIGNATURE, I'M ASSUMING.

THE SENATE, NOT SO MUCH.

I HAD A LONG TALK WITH THE SENATE PRESIDENT THIS WEEK ABOUT WHY HE'S TAKING A MONTH OFF AND WHAT'S LEFT AND HE BROUGHT IT UP ON HIS OWN AND THE HOUSE, I'VE BEEN PUTTING EVERYTHING UP ON A VOTE WHILE WE WERE WAITING FOR THE BUDGET BILLS AND WE VOTED, LAST WEEK, 15 BILLS AND THEY DIDN'T AND THEY NEEDED TO GET THEM DONE AND THAT'S WHY THEY DID THAT.

>> I WONDER IF IT'S BILLS THAT HAD, PERHAPS, BEEN HELD UP IN THE HOUSE AS THEY WAITED TO GET VOTES ON THE BUDGET.

THE BUTCH WASTHE BUDGET WAS PASSED ON MAY 10th.

>> THERE'S A STALL AS BUDGET NEGOTIATIONS HAPPEN.

AS SOON AS THE BUDGET IS DONE, YOU RUSH TO THE DOOR OR FOR THE NEXT TWO OR THREE DAYS, YOU GET THE REST OF THE BUSINESS DONE AND TO HOME.

>> Ted: YOU WANT A SINE DIE.

I'M HEARING THE LEGISLATURE MAY NOT ALL BE THAT INTERESTING IN SINE DYING AT ALL.

>> THAT'S NOT TRUE, THEY'RE TAKING A BREAK AND I GUESS THEY DO INTEND TO END THE SESSION LIKE NORMAL BECAUSE ALL OF THESE LAWS CANNOT GO INTO EFFECT.

IF THEY KEEP THE SESSION OPEN UNTIL THANKSGIVING, NONE OF THESE LAWS WOULD GO INTO EFFECT UNTIL WHAT, FEBRUARY?

SO THERE ARE SOME OF THESE CHANGES THEY'RE MAKING THAT ARE, YEAH, A LOT GET ATTENTION AND CONTROVERSIAL AND A LOT OF THEM MAKE IMPORTANT CHANGES, THINGS THAT ARE NEEDED AND VERY BROADLY SUPPORTED AND BIPARTISAN MEASURES.

>> THIS BILL, IF IT GETS SIGNED INTO LAW, IT TAKES 90 DAYS AND WHEN WILL YOU DATE THE 90 DAYS?

THERE'S NO END DAY FROM THE LEGISLATURE AND DEADLINE IS JUNE 30th TO BE HAVE A BUDGET DONE AND THEY GOT THAT OUT OF THE WAY AND THEY ARGUABLY COULD DO THIS AND IF YOU WANT YOUR BILLS, THE FEW THAT DID GET THROUGH AND SIGNED INTO LAW TO BECOME LAW, YOU'LL HAVE TO GET OUT OF THERE.

>> Ted: STICKING WITH YOU MARY JO, PROP 400 AND WHY IS IT FOR MARICOPA COUNTY RESIDENTS TO VOTE ON EXTENDING THE TRANSPORTATION TAX THAT'S BEEN AROUND FOREVER, YOU NEED APPROVAL IN.

>> THIS DATES BACK TO THE LATE'S 90S WHENEVER JERRY OVERTON WAS IN CHARGE, HE DIDN'T LIKE TRANSIT.

HE WASN'T A BELIEVER IN IT.

THERE WAS PROPOSALS FOR BUS AND A LOT OF RUMBLINGS FOR LIGHTRAIL AND FOR MARICOPA COUNTY AND IF YOU WANT A TRANSPORTATION TAX, YOU HAVE TO GET PERMISSION FROM THE LEGISLATURE AND NO OTHER COUNTY HAS TO DO THAT.

PINAL COUNTY DEMONSTRATED LAST FALL THEY CALLED THEIR OWN TRANSPORTATION TAX AND VOTERS TURNED IT DOWN.

SO VOTERS CAN MAKE UP THEIR MIND.

WHEN IT COMES TO MAYOR MARICOPA COUNTY, SHEER SHAPING THEY'RE SHAPING THIS BECAUSE OF THE LIGHTRAIL.

>> Ted: IT'S LIGHTRAIL, ISN'T IT BOB?

>> HE THINKS THEY TOLD HIM THEY WON'T USE THIS FOR LIGHTRAIL.

THEY COULD SUPPLANT AND THEY WANTS IT ROCK SOLID THERE'S NO LIGHTRAIL AND WANTS IT THAT THEY CAN'T MESS WITH THIS TWO BILLION DOLLARS SLUSH FUND AND CONCERNED ABOUT AIR QUALITY AND WORRIED MAG CAN ONLY HAVE 50% OF THE CARS THAT HAVE TO BE ELECTRIC OR CAP AND TRADE PROGRAM OR REPUBLICANS HORRIBLES THAT HE DOESN'T WANT TO SEE HAPPEN.

SO THEY'LL TRY TO SHAPE THIS.

>> BUT AIR QUALITY IS GOVERNED BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND IF ARIZONA, THE GREATER METRO AREA IS CLOSE TO BEING BUMPED UP TO A WORSE GRADE ON OZONE POLLUTION, IF THAT HAPPENS, THERE'S MORE RESTRICTIONS THAT WILL BE NEEDED OR THE FEDS WILL RUN THE SHOW.

>> Ted: HOW MUCH HORSE TRADING, JIM IS GOING ON HERE?

I'M HEARING THE RENTAL TAX IS SOMEHOW INVOLVED AND YOU GIVE A LITTLE HERE AND THE RENTAL TAX THERE AND A TRAIN OR TWO CAN BE EXTENDED.

>> THE RUMOR WAS WHEN THE BUDGET WAS GOING THROUGH WAS THAT ESSENTIALLY AFTER THE BUDGET WAS DONE, WE WOULD SEE RENTAL TAX GET REVIVED AND BASICALLY CITIES FROM CHARGED SALES TAX ON RENTALS AND GOVERNOR HOBBS VETOED A BILL AND THAT WOULD BE REVIVED AND SIGNED INTO LAW IN EXCHANGE FOR THE REPUBLICANS LINING UP BEHIND ONE OF THE COMPETING PROP 400 EXTENSIONS.

>> Ted: HOW MANY OF THEM ARE?

>> THERE ARE TWO AND THEY BOTH MOSTLY THE SAME THING AND HOW MUCH MONEY GOES TO TRANSIT?

THAT'S THE PRIMARY DIFFERENCE AND BOTH SAY TO LIGHTRAIL EXTENSIONS.

YOU CAN'T USE MONEY TO MAKE IT LONGER AND HOW MUCH WILL GO TO PUBLIC TRANSIT AND BUZZES AND BUSES AND OTHER THINGS?

THEY DON'T WANT EITHER OF THEM TO GO FORWARD AND CAMPS.

WE'LL SEE IF IT HAPPENS AND IF THERE WAS A DEAL.

I THINK THE PROOF WOULD BE IN THE PUDDING BY THE TIME WE GET TO THE END OF JUNE.

>> DURING THIS VACATION PERIOD, THERE WILL BE AND PROBABLY HAS BEEN A LOT OF PRESSURE TO FROM THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY SAYING LOOK, WE CAN'T DO THINGS LIKE THE TAIWAN PLANT UP IN THE NORTHWEST VALLEY WITHOUT HAVING, YOU KNOW, A BETTER -- DON'T FORGET ROADS ARE A PART OF THIS AND FREEWAYS, AS WELL, AND MAGAZINE, THE ASSOCIATION OF MARICOPA ASSOCIATION GOVERNMENTS SAYING, LOOK, WE'VE MADE CONCESSIONS AND WE HAVE TO HAVE OUR PLAN AND IF WE DON'T GET THIS, YOU CAN CALL AN ELECTION, BUT OUR VOTERS WON'T VOTE FOR IT AND WE WON'T CAMPAIGN FOR IT.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THERE'S A LOT OF CHANGES THAT THE LEGISLATURE IS DEMANDING AND A LOT OF THINGS BAKED INTO THE CURRENT PLAN THAT YOU REALLY CAN'T CHANGE WITHOUT MESSING IT UP SO BADLY THAT IT'S JUST UNWORKABLE IN THEIR VIEW.

>> Ted: MARY JO, IN THE STORY, AGAIN, THAT'S HARD TO WRAP YOUR MIND AROUND.

SOBER LIVING HOMES, THE SCAM REVOLVING ACCESS, SPENDING PAYMENTS TO PROVIDERS.

THE FACT IT'S SCAMMING THE STATE FOR ALL OF THIS MONEY AND UNIMAGINABLE WAYS.

>> THEY PREYED ON NATIVE AMERICAN INDIVIDUALS AND COERCED THEM INTO GOING INTO THESE SOBER LIVING HOMES AND ALMOST PRACTICALLY KIDNAPPING THEM.

>> Ted: PICKED THEM OFF THE STREETS AND YOU'RE ENTERED.

>> YOU CAN BILL FOR THE SERVICES.

>> AND BILL >> Ted: AND BILL FOR SERVICES NOT RENDERED.

>> PUTTING THEM IN A HOME AND COLLECTING THE STATE AND FEDERAL FUNDS TO TREAT THEM AND NO TREATMENT.

THEY WERE BUYING AND SELLING ALLEGEDLY AND THEY HAVE SOME CASES OF THIS, LISTS OF NATIVE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

AND THEN JUST SAYING THAT WE'RE TREATING THEM AND GETTING PAYMENT FOR THAT, INCLUDING YOUNG CHILDREN WHO DON'T NEED DRUG AND ALCOHOL TREATMENT AND OTHER PROGRAMS.

>> Ted: JIM, DID I READ THERE ARE ALLEGATIONS THERE WERE SOME OF THESE PEOPLE FED THEIR ADDICTIONS AT THE FACILITY?

DID YOU SEE THAT?

>> THAT'S PART OF IT, AS WELL, THAT THESE ARE GHOST BILLING, RIGHT?

THEY'RE BILLING THE STATE'S MEDICAID FOR STATES NEVER RENDERED OR RENDERED POORLY AND THE GOAL WAS NOT TO PROVIDE TREATMENT BUT TO BILL THE STATE, GET THE MONEY AND LINE THEIR POCKETS.

>> Ted: THE IDEA IF YOU HAVE AN ALCOHOL PROBLEM AND SOMEONE IS SLIPPING YOU SOMETHING -- >> KEEPS YOU IN THE PROGRAM NOW.

>> Ted: -- COME ON NOW.

>> THE CYNICISM IS INCREDIBLE INCREDIBLE.

THE AG CRACKED DOWN AND SOME IS ROLLING OUT WITH THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION AND THIS IS NOT ALL COMING -- THIS IS COMING TO LIGHT IN A BROADWAY BECAUSE OF AG MAYES AND GOVERNOR HOBBS AND INDICTMENTS PRIOR TO THIS.

>> THEY WERE DOING IT PIECEMEAL AND THIS IS A BROAD CATEGORY OF SCAM AND THE STATE AGENCY NEVER CRACKED DOWN AND GOVERNOR DUCEY, FORMER GOVERNOR DUCEY NEVER CRACKED DOWN AND GOVERNOR BRNOVICH NEVER CONTACTED DOWN CRACKED DOWN.

>> Ted: A STUNNING FAILURE OF GOVERNMENT.

WILL THIS HAVE SOME LEGS HERE BECAUSE FROM A DISTANCE, THIS IS LOUSY.

>> I THINK WE'VE BEEN SEEING MEDIA REPORTS SIN THE FALL AND REPORT SINCE MEDIA REPORTS SIN THE FALL AND AND TAKEN TO THE PHOENIX AREA AND, YOU KNOW, UNBEKNOWNST TO THEM AND THEY FIND OUT THAT TEAR THEIR BROTHER, SISTER OR UNCLE, THIS IS WHERE THEY WERE.

WE'VE SEEN INDICTMENTS AND A LOT MORE DOWN THE PIPELINE AND SOME WILL BE, STAGGERING ALLEGATIONS.

I KNOW THE ONE THAT CAME OUT TODAY, I THINK THE REPUBLIC HAD, WAS THAT ALLEGEDLY BILKED THE STATE OUT OF $22 MILLION AND LUXURY DESIGNER CLOTHES AND HANDBAGS AND ALL OF THESE CARS.

SO I THINK WE'LL SEE A LOT MORE THINGS LIKE THAT.

TEE >> Ted: PANEL, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

THAT'S IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS AND THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US AND YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND!