THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

THIS IS-- LET'S DEFINE TERMS HERE.

WHAT IS PROJECTOR ARTEMIS?

>> IT WAS ESTABLISHED AROUND 2005 AFTER THE UNITEDSTATES ENGAGED IN AFGHANISTAN TO EMPOWER WOMEN IN AFGHANISTAN.

AFGHAN WOMEN IN LEADERSHIP ISN'T AN ENTERSPRIEWNSHIP-- ENTREPRENEURSHIP SKILLS SO THEY COULD HAVE SUCCESSFUL LIVES AND-- >> ONE-TIME PROGRAM OR CONTINUING?

>> ONE-TIME PROGRAM, TWO WEEKS BUT WITH LOTS OF FOLLOW-ON SUPPORT, COACHING, A BIGGER NETWORK THAT THEY CONNECTED TO.

MANY OF THE WOMEN WENT ON, ESPECIALLY EVERY ONE OF THEM, WENT ON TO MENTOR MANY OTHER AFGHAN WOMEN, SO IT HAD A HUGE RIPPLE EFFECT.

>> WHAT HAPPENS TO PLANS TO CONTINUE OR GO AHEAD WITH THE PROJECT NOW THAT THE TALIBAN IS IN CONTROL OF AFGHANISTAN?

>> WELL, IT'S GOING TO BE A VERY UNCERTAIN TIME NOT ONLY FOR PROJECT ARTEMILS BUT FOR WOMEN MORE GENERALLY.

AS WE KNOW YOUNG GIRLS ACROSS AFGHANISTAN.

WE HAVE AN ALUMNI OF ABOUT 500 THAT GRADUATED FOR THE PROGRAM.

OUR FIRST ORDER OF BUSINESS IS TRYING TO HELP THEM TO BE AS SAFE WITH THEIR FAMILIES AS POSSIBLE.

THE SECOND ORDER IS TO CONTINUE TO TRY TO ADVANCE THE PROGRAM AND BROADEN IT DESPITE THE CHALLENGES THAT MAY-- YOU KNOW, START TO EMERGE IN AFGHANISTAN.

ITS PAST BEHAVIOR IS A GREAT PREDICTOR OF FUTURE BEHAVIOR.

IT'S GOING TO BE VERY DIFFICULT CONDITIONS SO THE FUTURE OF OUR INITIATIVES IN AFGHANISTAN A VERY MUCH IN DOUBT.

>> AS FAR AS GRADUATES ARE CONCERNED, HAVE YOU HEARD FROM THOSE GRADUATES AND IF SO WHAT ARE YOU HEARING?

>> WE HAVE HEARD FROM THEM.

WE'RE ENGAGING WITH THEM.

WE'RE VERY CAREFUL NOT TO SHARE THEIR NAMES.

WE HAVE SOME VERY GANT ONES THAT ARE VERY HIGH-- SIGNIFICANT ONES THAT ARE VERY HIGH LEVEL, STARTED THEIR OWN COALITION.

THEY'RE FEARFUL FOR THEIR LIVES.

MANY OF THEM ARE TRYING TO SEEK REFUGE.

ARE REQUESTING EVERY FORM OF ASSISTANCE AND WE'RE TRYING TO PROVIDE THAT, TRYING TO FLEE THE COUNTRY, SAVE THEIR FAMILIES.

IT'S AN INCREDIBLY SCARY TIME FOR THESE INCREDIBLY HEROIC WOMEN.

>> INDEED.

AND ARE THERE SOME PROJECT GRADUATES WHO ARE STILL HERE IN THE STATES THAT WERE PLANNING TO GO BACK TO AFGHANISTAN BUT NOW AREN'T SURE THEY HAVE ANYWHERE TO GO?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

ALONG WITH MANY OTHER AFGHAN WOMEN AND MEN WHO HAVE BEEN SERVING THEIR COUNTRY AND/OR HAVE BEEN HERE AND WANTED TO GO BACK, THE FUTURE IS UNLIKELY TO MAKE THAT POSSIBLE.

>> AND AGAIN, AS FAR AS PROJECT ARTEMIS IS CONCERNED, TALK ABOUT THE MULTIPLIER EFFECT THAT THIS PROGRAM HAS HAD AND COULD STILL HAVE IF IT WERE VIABLE IN A TALGAN AFGHANISTAN.

>> YEAH.

SO PROJECT ARTEMIS, WE TRAIN ABOUT 86 INCREDIBLE WOMEN.

THE FOLLOW WITH 10,000 WOMEN.

ANOTHER SELF HUNDRED.

THEY WENT ON TO NOT ONLY MENTOR THOUSANDS OF OTHER WOMEN, BUT CREATE BUSINESSES THAT EMPLOYED THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF AFGHANS, CREATED YOU KNOW, SUSTAINABLE PROSPERITY AS WE ADVANCE AT THUNDERBIRD SCHOOL OF GLOBAL MANAGEMENT.

BECAME LEADERS IN THE PUBLIC AND NONPROFIT SECTOR.

REALLY, THE BACKBONE OF THE ECONOMY, SOCIETY, AND GOVERNMENT IN AFGHANISTAN.

SO IT COULD HAVE CONTINUED ON TO GROW AND WE HAD MULTIPLE ADDITIONAL PROGRAMS.

OUR THUNDER BIRD FOR GOOD PROGRAM THAT EMPOWER WOMEN OF LEADERS AND ENTREPRENEURS AROUND THE WORLD THAT WE WOULD CONTINUE TO ADVANCE IN AFGHANISTAN AS WELL.

WE HAD A LONG, BRIGHT FUTURE AHEAD.

NOW IT'S VERY UNCERTAIN.

BUT AT THUNDERBIRD AND ASU WE'LL ALWAYS FIGURE OUT A WAY TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

>> YEAH, YEAH.

AND YOU MENTIONED THE DIFFERENCE AND THE FACT THAT IT'S SO UNCERTAIN RIGHT NOW.

COULD A PROJECT ARTEMIS WORK IN THE FUTURE IN A TALIBAN-CONTROLLED AFGHANISTAN?

>> YOU KNOW, ONE SHOULD ALWAYS-- WE'RE POSTULATES.

WE BELIEVE THERE'S ALWAYS POSITIVE POSSIBLE.

AND SO WHAT WE NEED TO MAKE SURE AS AN INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY NOW, AS THE UNITEDSTATES WITHDRAWS-- CONTINUES ITS WITHDRAWAL, THAT THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY IS ENGAGING THE NEW REGIME, THE TALIBAN REGIME, AND FOCUSING ON CONSTRUCTIVE ENGAGEMENT, PARTNERSHIP, COLLABORATION.

I AM NOT OVERLY OPTIMISTIC OF THE POSSIBILITIES THERE GIVEN PAST BEHAVIOR AS I MENTIONED.

BUT WE'RE GOING TO ENGAGE IN EVERY WAY POSSIBLE AND OFFER OUR SERVICES AS LONG AS IT IS-- ENSURES THE RIGHTS AND DIGNITY OF ALL PEOPLE THAT WE-- WE OPPOSE ALL FORMS OF CORRUPTION AND EXPLOITATION, AND DOES ADVANCE SUSTAINABLE AND EQUITY PROSPERITY.

THOSE ARE OUR THREE CORE VALUES.

>> WE CERTAINLY WISH YOU THE BEST.

GOOD CONVERSATION.

AND AGAIN, THE BEST.

THANK YOU, SIR.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> AND UP NEXT, THE PANDEMICS CONTINUE-- PANDEMIC'S CONTINUED IMPACT ON THE COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE MARKET.

>>> THE PANDEMIC CONTINUES TO MAKE FOR TOUGH TIMES IN THE COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE MARKET, WITH VACANCY RATES AND RETAIL AND OFFICE SPACE AT HISTORIC HIGHS.

WE LEARNED MORE FROM DANNY QUARTZ.

DANNY, GOOD TO SEE YOU.

WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

WE'RE TALKING COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE AND THE CONTINUING IMPACT OF THE PANDEMIC ON THE COMMERCIAL MARKET.

WHAT ARE YOU SEEING OUT THERE?

>> WELL, IT'S TOUGH.

IT'S A TOUGH ONE OUT THERE.

WE'RE SEEING IT MOST HIT IN RETAIL AND OFFICE, ESPECIALLY OFFICE RIGHT NOW.

THE INDUSTRY IS SORT OF REELING.

THERE'S BEEN FIVE CONSECUTIVE QUARTERS OF NEGATIVE APCORPORATION, MEANING-- ABSORPTION MEANING MORE PEOPLE ARE LEAVING SPACE RATHER THAN SIGN UP ON LEASES.

WE'RE SEEING VACANCIES NOT CLOSE TO WHAT WE SAW IN THE GREAT RECESSION, BECAUSE WE'RE NEARING 20% VACANCY IN OFFICE.

SO YOU KNOW, IT'S TOUGH SLEDDING OUT THERE RIGHT NOW.

>> WITH THOSE TYPES OF RATES AND PEOPLE HESITANT TO COME BACK TO WORK, IS THERE A REIMAGINING OF OFFICE SPACE GOING ON?

>> I THINK-- I THINK THAT'S A GOOD ASSUMPTION.

I DON'T KNOW WHERE IT'S HEADED.

THERE'S CERTAINLY A WORK FROM HOME IS HERE TO STAY.

SO I DON'T THINK IT'S GONNA BE A BINARY DECISION OF HAVING OFFICE SPACE FOR WORKING REMOTELY, BUT PROBABLY SOME HYBRID OF THAT.

BEFORE THE PANDEMIC HIT, WE WERE SEEING MORE CROWDED OFFICE SPACE, YOU KNOW, EACH EMPLOYEE HAD LESS AND LESS SPACE IN THE OFFICE.

THE OPEN CONCEPT.

THAT'S BEING RE-EVALUATED.

WE'RE PROBABLY GONNA SEE MORE SPACE FOR EACH EMPLOYEE.

SO OVERALL DEMAND IS DOWN.

BUT SPACE IS BEING REIMAGINED FOR WHAT A HEALTHY, PHYSICAL WORK ENVIRONMENT WILL BE.

>> INDEED, APPROPRIATE DISTANCING.

ALSO I WOULD IMAGINE GYMS AND LOUNGES AND THESE SORT OF THINGS, THOSE WERE PRETTY HOT ITEMS HERE IN THE PAST.

I'M GUESSING THOSE AREN'T AT THE TOP OF PEOPLE'S LIST THESE DAYS.

>> IT'S PROBABLY A LITTLE TOO SOON TO TELL, BUT YEAH, THAT'S WHERE WE'RE SEEING ALL THE-- ACROSS THE ECONOMY, INDUSTRIES WHERE PEOPLE WERE GATHERING WERE IMPACTED THE MOST.

SO WHETHER OR NOT THERE'S A DECISION BY EMPLOYEES TO HAVE THAT GYM SPACE, WE KNOW THAT GYMS ARE POPULAR.

FITNESS AREAS ARE PURPOSE AND-- POPULAR AND EVEN SEMIPUBLIC SPACES ARE POPULAR STILL.

SO AGAIN, IF IT'S-- IF IT CAN BE SAFE, IF WE CAN GET THROUGH THIS PANDEMIC, THAT'S REALLY THE BIG QUESTION MARK, IS WHAT'S PERMANENT AND WHAT'S TRANSER TO.

>> WHAT ABOUT THE-- TRANSITORY.

>> WHAT ABOUT THE RETAIL MARKET?

>> RETAIL HAS BEEN HAVING A TOUGH TIME OVER A PANDEMIC.

THE PANDEMIC-- OVER A DECADE.

THE PANDEMIC DID IT NO FLARES.

THE GROWTH-- FAVORS.

THE GROWTH IN E-COMMERCE HAS BEEN GROWING.

THERE WAS A SPIKE LAST YEAR.

EVERYONE IS STAYING HOME BUYING ALL THEIR THINGS ONLINE.

THAT PUSHES RETAILERS TOWARD THE INDUSTRIAL MARKET IN THOSE WAREHOUSE AND DISTRIBUTION SPACES INSTEAD OF PHYSICAL SPACE.

THOSE RETAILERS ARE REALLY NOT INVESTIGATING IN NEW STORE LOCATION LIKE THEY WERE IN THE PAST.

WE HAVE A PRETTY STRONG RETAIL MARKET HERE.

THERE'S A LOT OF RETAIL SPACE HERE.

BUT REALLY, REALLY LIMITED CONSTRUCTION.

IT'S REALLY JUST DRIVEN BY GROCERY STORE ANCHORED CENTERS, MAYBE SOME FITNESS-CENTERED-- FITNESS-ANCHORED CENTERS.

THE REGIONAL MALL IS NOT A POPULAR CATEGORY.

THAT'S ONE, TOO.

BRICK AND MORTAR RETAIL IS A HARD SPACE RIGHT NOW.

>> ARE THERE SOME BEST PRACTICES OUT THERE TO DO DIFFERENT THINGS WITH THESE RETAIL-- EMPTY RETAIL SPACES?

>> WELL, WHAT-- WHAT WE'VE SEEN AS A BEST SOLUTION REALLY IS TO BALANCE YOUR LAND USE.

THERE IS PROBABLY WAY TOO MUCH COMMERCIAL LAND PRESERVED FOR THAT HOPEFUL COMMERCIAL CENTER TO COME INTO EACH MUNICIPALITY.

AND REALLY TO BALANCE THAT OUT IS TO SPRUCE SOME RESIDENT NATURAL-- INTRODUCE SOME RESIDENT SHALL, MAYBE SOME MULTIFAMILY.

EACH OF THOSE RESIDENTS BRINGS IN DEMAND FOR THE RETAIL.

SO YOU BOLSTER WHAT YOU HAVE EXISTING AND MAYBE YOU CAN INDUCE A LITTLE BIT MORE, MAYBE YOU CAN GET SOME RESTAURANTS OR SOME-- SOME RETAIL PADS.

>> YEAH.

YEAH.

AND LAST QUESTION, BEFORE WE GO, HAS THE FACE OF RETAIL AND COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE, HAS IT CHANGED FOR GOOD?

>> I THINK-- I THINK THERE IS GOING TO BE A PERMANENT SHIFT-- PERMANENT SHIFT.

IN TERMS OF RETAIL, THAT CURBSIDE DELIVERY AND DRIVE-THROUGH FORMAT IS REALLY POPULAR AND THAT'S PROBABLY GOING TO STAY SO THAT YOU MITIGATE THE RISK OF SOMETHING LIKE A COVID HAPPENING AGAIN.

OFFICE SPACE I ALSO THINK IT'S SHIFTED PERMANENTLY AND WORK FROM HOME IS HERE TO STAY IN SOME WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM.

>> VERY INTERESTING.

DANNY, THANK YOU, GOOD STUFF.

APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU.

THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>>> IT SOUNDS LIKE SOMETHING OUT OF A SCIENCE FICTION MOVIE.

TAKE AN INHOSPITABLE PLANET AND MAKE IT LIVABLE LIKE FOR EXAMPLE ON MARS.

IT'S A REMOTE POSSIBILITY.

BUT ASU PLANETARY SCIENTIST JIM BELL IS LOOKING INTO IT.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US HERE.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TERRA FORMING.

WHAT EXACTLY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?

>> WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TAKING AN ENVIRONMENT OF A PLANET OR A MOON OR ASTEROID AND TURNING IT INTO A MUCH MORE EARTH-LIKE ENVIRONMENT.

AND SO THE ONLY COUPLE OF PLACES IN OUR SOLAR SYSTEM WHERE WE COULD THINK ABOUT DOING THAT IS MARS.

MARS HAS A THIN ATMOSPHERE, VERY COLD.

BUT ONE CAN IMAGINE POSSIBLY CHANGING THAT ENVIRONMENT, TERRAFORMING THAT ENVIRONMENT, INTO A MORE EARTH-LIKE PLACE.

>> SO TURNING AN INHOSPITABLE PLACE INTO A LOCATION IN WHICH WE AS HUMANS COULD LIVE AND YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT MARS.

I THINK A RECENTLY PANEL LOOKED LIKE IT COULD HAPPEN ON MARS.

BUT HOW DIFFICULT WOULD THAT BE?

>> EXTREMELY DIFFICULT.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PROBABLY TECHNOLOGY THAT DOESN'T EXIST TODAY.

TALKING ABOUT A PLANET IN THE CASE OF MARS WHERE THERE'S PROBABLY NOT ENOUGH WATER OR CARBON DIOXIDE OR OTHER GREENHOUSE GAS MATERIALS UNDERGROUND OR STORED IN THE POLAR CAP TO MAKE THAT BIG OF A CHANGE.

SO WE'D BE TALKING ABOUT HAVING TO MASS PRODUCE GASES LIKE CO2 OR METHANE IN ENORMUS QUANTITIES THAT WE DON'T-- ENORMOUS QUANTITIES THAT WE DON'T HAVE THE EQUIPMENT TO DO NOW.

SO TODAY TERRAFORMING IS SCIENCE FICTION AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TAKING HUNDREDS IF NOT THOUSANDS OF YEARS IF EVER TO CHANGE AN ENTIRE PLANETARY ENVIRONMENT LIKE THAT INTO AN EARTH-LIKE ONE.

>> WHAT COMES FIRST?

A TERRAFORMING OR THE ABILITY OF MAN TO REACH OUT SO FAR INTO SPACE TO FIND A LOCATION MAYBE MORE HOSPITABLE THAN MARS?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A SMALL NUMBER OF PLACES IN OUR SOLAR SYSTEM THAT WE'VE DISCOVERED OVER 60 YEARS OF NASA SPACE EXPLORATION, MOSTLY ROBOTIC, WHERE THE CONDITIONS EITHER COULD BE TODAY OR WERE IN THE PAST HABITABLE FOR HUMANS, FOR US.

MARS IS ON THE TOP OF THAT LIST.

YOU LOOK AT THOSE PICTURES AND IT KIND OF LOOKS EARTH LIKE.

IT'S VERY, VERY HOSTILE, HOWEVER.

BUT MARS IS ON THE TOP OF THAT LIST BECAUSE IT'S GOT AN ATMOSPHERE ALREADY.

IT HAS SOME OF THE INGREDIENTS NEEDED FOR US TO USE TO LIVE THERE.

AND IT'S ALSO RELATIVELY CLOSE.

THE OTHER PLACES ON THAT SHOOTER LIST-- SHORT LIST ARE IN THE DEEP OUTER SOLAR SYSTEM, MUCH HARDER TO GET TO.

>> YOU MENTIONED MARS.

23 BELOW IS A NICE DAY ON MARS, RIGHT?

>> YEAH.

MARS, YOU KNOW, MAKES ANTARCTICA LOOK LIKE A TROPICAL WONDERLAND.

>> IT'S A RED PLANET AND YOU THINKED HOT BUT IT'S COLD.

AND YOU HAVE TONS OF RADIATION, AND ISN'T DUST LIKE SMOKE THERE MOST OF THE TIME?

>> YEAH, THIS IS-- THESE ARE GREAT POINTS.

MARS DOESN'T HAVE A MAGNETIC FIELD THAT PROTECTS US FROM A LOT OF SOLAR AND GALACTIC RADIATION.

MARS HAS THESE FAMOUS DUST STORMS AND YOU'RE RIGHT, IT'S TINY FINE GRAINED DUST THAT'S GOING TO GET IN IN PEOPLE'S LUNGS, IN YOUR SPACE SUIT, JOINTS AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF.

IT'S GOING TO BE KIND OF A MESS TO DEAL WITH.

THE APOLLO ASTRONAUTS ONLY WENT TO THE MOON HAD TO DEAL WITH LUNAR DUST WHICH WAS ALL OVER THE SPACE SUITS AND THEY HAD BREATHING SOME OF IN IT THE CAPSULE WHEN THEY WENT BACK INSIDE.

SO MARS PRESENTS THAT PROBLEM AGAIN.

BUT ON AN ENTIRE PLANETARY SCALE.

>> WE SHOULD MENTION, ISN'T THERE ICE?

HASN'TTHERE BEEN SIGNS OF ICE ON THE POLES?

>> THERE IS.

THERE'S WATER, ICE, CO2, DRY ICE, DISCOVERED ON MARS.

SOME OF IT'S ON THE POLAR CAPS.

SOME OF IT IS BURIED UNDERGROUND.

SOME OF IT RELATIVELY SHALLOW.

COULD YOU SCRAPE THE DUST AND ROCKS AWAY AND THERE IT IS.

WE DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH BUT YOU KNOW, WE DON'T THINK IT'S ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO EVAPORATE AND CHANGE THE CLIMATE OF THE PLANET BUT IT'S PROBABLY ENOUGH TO HELP SUSTAIN US WHEN SETTLERS, WHEN THE FIRST EXPLORERS AND THEN SETTLERS EVENTUALLY GO TO MARS AND I THINK THOSE DAYS ARE COMING.

>> DO WE KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT OTHER PLANETS T MOONS OF JUPITER TO KNOW THAT MARS WOULD MAKE BETTER SENSE THAN THOSE PLACES?

APART FROM THE DISTANCE INVOLVED?

>> YEAH, FUNDAMENTALLY, NO.

WE DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING WE'D LIKE TO KNOW.

WE BELIEVE AND THERE'S LOTS OF EVIDENCE THAT JIEWRPT'S MOON EUROPA HAS A SUBSURFACE OCEAN AND THAT'S IN CONTACT WITH A ROCKY CRUST OR MANTEL LIKE THE EARTH'S OCEAN IS.

GREAT PLACE TO BE HABITABLE.

THERE COULD BE CREATURES LIVING IN THIS OCEAN.

FISH-LIKE CREATURES, OTHER ORGANISMS.

WE DON'T KNOW.

WE HAVE TO FIND OUT.

ABOUTS-- PUT THAT'S A LONG WAY TO GO, MORE THAN FIVE TIMES FARTHER THAN THE SUNDAY THAN THE EARTH IS.

AND JUPITER HAS THIS INTENSE RADIATION ENVIRONMENT.

SO THE SURFACE OF EUROPA IS A VERY HOSTILE PLACE.

SO LOTS OF CHALLENGES.

SAME WITH TITAN THAT HAS A THICK ATMOSPHERE.

THE ONLY MOON WITH A BIG ATMOSPHERE IN THE SOLAR SYSTEM.

SATURN'S MOON HIGH RADIATION ENVIRONMENT.

LONG TRAVEL TIMES TO GET OUT THERE.

SO THIS IS KIND OF WHY WE'RE FOCUSING ON MARS SO MUCH, BECAUSE IT IS RELATIVELY CLOSE.

ONLY-- ONLY SIX TO NINE MONTHS TO GET THERE.

THAT'S CLOSE.

>> JIM BELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

>> GOOD TO SEE YOU, TOO, TAKE CARE.

>>> AND THAT IS IT FOR NOW.

I'M TEDSIMONS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING.

>>> COMING UP IN THE NEXT HALF-HOUR OF LOCAL NEWS ON ARIZONA PBS, ON CRONKITE NEWS, ASSESSING MONSOON DAMAGE FROM RECENTMAN MONSOON DAMAGE ON RECENT STORMS AND HOW COVID HAS AFFECTED THOSE IN INCARCERATED IN U.S.

PRISONS.

"CRONKITE NEWS"