TED: COMING UP IN THE NEXT HOUR OF LOCAL NEWS, ON ARIZONA PBS, ON "ARIZONA HORIZON," THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE, LOOK AT THE TOP STORIES OF THE WEEK, INCLUDING THE RELEASE OF A BIZARRE CANVASS REPORT OF MARICOPA COUNTY VOTERS.

>>> AND ON "BREAK IT DOWN," HOW THE UNITED STATES CHANGED AFTER THE 9/11 ATTACKS.

THAT'S ALL COMING UP ON THE NEXT HOUR OF ARIZONA PBS.

ANNOUNCER: THIS HOUR OF LOCAL NEWS IS MADE POSSIBLE BY CONTRIBUTIONS OF FRIENDS OF PBS, MEMBERS OF YOUR PBS STATION, THANK YOU.

TED: GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

MARICOPA COUNTY ATTORNEY ALLISTER ADEL IS SEEKING TREATMENT FOR AN EATING DISORDER AND ALCOHOL ABUSE, SHE SAID, QUOTE, I HAVE A CHALLENGING JOURNEY AHEAD TO DO BETTER AND BE BETTER FOR FRIENDS, FAMILY, STAFF, THIS COMMUNITY AND ULTIMATELY MYSELF.

ADEL WILL STAY IN OFFICE SAYING I'M IN DAILY CONTACT WITH MY LEADERSHIP TEAM WHILE SEEKING TREATMENT TO ENSURE THE BUSINESS OF THE MARICOPA COUNTY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE CONTINUES.

>>> PRESIDENT BIDEN TODAY RESPONDED TO CRITICS CHALLENGING HIS MANDATE THAT CALLS FOR ALL FEDERAL EMPLOYEES TO GET VACCINATED AGAINST COVID WITHIN THE NEXT 75 DAYS, AND INSTRUCTS OSHA TO REQUIRE PRIVATE BUSINESSES WITH OVER 100 EMPLOYEES TO ENSURE THOSE WORKERS BE VACCINATED.

GOVERNOR DUCEY AND OTHER REPUBLICAN GOVERNORS HAVE VOWED TO FIGHT THE PRESIDENT'S MANDATE WITH LAWSUITS A POSSIBILITY.

THE PRESIDENT'S RESPONSE?

>> HAVE AT IT.

I AM SO DISAPPOINTED THAT PARTICULARLY SOME REPUBLICAN GOVERNORS HAVE BEEN SO CAVALIER WITH THE HEALTH OF THESE KIDS.

SO CAVALIER WITH THE HEALTH OF THEIR COMMUNITIES.

WE'RE PLAYING FOR REAL HERE.

THIS ISN'T A GAME.

TED: GOVERNOR DUCEY YESTERDAY VOWED TO PUSH BACK ON THE PRESIDENT'S MANDATES ADDING THAT, QUOTE, JOE BIDEN HAS FAILED US ON COVID.

>>> TODAY'S COVID REPORT SHOWS ENCOURAGING NUMBERS.

THE STATE REPORTED FEWER THAN 3,000 NEW CASES FOR THE FIFTH STATE DAYS, WASN'T MUCH BELOW 3,000 BUT MAKES THE SEVEN-DAY AVERAGE THE LOWEST LEVEL IN A MONTH.

THERE WERE SIX FATALITIES, LOWER THAN THE SEVEN-DAY AVERAGE.

>>> UNVACCINATED PEOPLE ARE 11 TIMES MORE LIKELY TO DIE FROM COVID AND 10 TIMES MORE LIKE TO BE HOSPITALIZED.

ACCORDING TO A NEW STUDY BY THE CDC, WHICH RELEASED ANOTHER STUDY THAT SHOWS THAT ALL COVID VACCINES AVAILABLE IN THE U.S. ARE EFFECTIVE AGAINST THE DELTA VARIANT WITH THE MODERNA VACCINE SLIGHTLY MORE EFFECTIVE THAN THE OTHERS.

>>> OTHER NEWS -- JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TODAY FILED APPEAL AGAINST A COURT RULING BY FEDERAL APPEAL COURT IN TEXAS THAT THE DACA PROGRAM WAS ILLEGAL, THE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS WHO BENEFITTED FROM THE PROGRAM THAT PROTECTS THOSE BROUGHT TO THE U.S. FROM DEPORTATION.

THIS PARTICULAR CASE COULD WIND UP BEFORE THE U.S. SUPREME COURT.

>>> AND STATE PRESIDENT KAREN FANN CONDEMNING THREATS MADE TO LAWMAKERS AND THEIR FAMILIES.

FANN MENTIONED PERSONAL ATTACKS AND THREATS THAT, QUOTE, CROSS THE LINE BUT DID NOT SPECIFY WHICH LAWMAKERS RECEIVED THREATS OR WHY OR HOW THEY WERE THREATENED.

THERE ARE REPORTS REPUBLICAN SENATOR MICHELLE UGENTI-RITA RECEIVED A THREATENING MESSAGE DEMANDING THE RELEASE OF THE SO-CALLED AUDIT OF MARICOPA COUNTY VOTES.

>>> TIME NOW FOR THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE, AND FOR A LOOK AT SOME OF THIS WEEK'S TOP STORIES, WE WELCOME HOWIE FISCHER OF CAPITOL MEDIA SERVICES AND LAURIE ROBERTS OF "THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC."

THANK YOU, BOTH FOR BEING HERE.

WE HAVE A BUSY WEEK, HOWIE.

WE'LL START WITH YOU AND START WITH A CURIOUS CANVASSING.

WE HAD A BUNCH OF FOLKS IN NEIGHBORHOODS KNOCKING ON DOORS ASKING GOODNESS KNOWS WHAT AND THEN RELEASED THEIR FINDINGS.

WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?

>> WELL, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO, NO MATTER WHAT THEY SEE, WHAT THEY HEAR, BELIEVE, THERE WAS MASSIVE FRAUD, THAT DONALD TRUMP WON ARIZONA, THAT THERE WAS CHEATING, THAT THERE WERE FRAUDULENT BALLOTS, GHOST VOTERS, PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T EXIST.

BALLOTS CAST FROM PLACES THAT DIDN'T EXIST FROM VACATE LOTS, SO THEY DID A SURVEY OF ABOUT 4500.

APPARENTLY NOT RANDOMLY CHOSEN WHICH IS THE FIRST PROBLEM, THERE AND RELEASED THIS REPORT THAT SAYS LOOK, WE HAVE FOUND SOMETHING LIKE 173,000 MISSING VOTERS, PLACES WHERE, AGAIN, THEY DON'T EXIST.

THE FUNNY THING IS THE COVER PICTURE ON THIS REPORT OF A VACANT LOT, THEY GOT IT WRONG.

THERE IS SOMEBODY LIVING AT THAT ADDRESS.

THERE ARE THREE VOTERS LIVING AT THAT ADDRESS.

TED: FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND THEY CHANGED THE PICTURE AND GOT THE NEXT PICTURE WRONG.

>> EXACTLY.

LOOK AT THIS MOBILE HOME PARK THAT'S NOT THERE.

THE MOBILE HOME PARK WAS THERE AT THE TIME OF THE ELECTION.

SO, AGAIN, IS THERE PERHAPS SOME PROBLEM THERE?

THIS QUOTE, UNQUOTE AUDIT, CANVASS IS NOT GOING TO FIND IT.

TED: LAURIE, WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE KNOCKING ON DOORS?

ARE THEY ASSOCIATED OR AFFILIATED WITH THE SENATE'S AUDIT?

>> I WOULD SAY OFFICIALLY NO, LOOSELY YES, BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL OUT FOR THE SAME THING TO PROVE THERE WAS FRAUD IN THIS ELECTION, AND THEY ARE ALL PRETTY MUCH LIKE THE AUDITORS, UNQUALIFIED IN THE FINE ART OF SURVEYING, AND ANY POLLSTER THAT YOU TALK TO WILL TELL YOU THAT IT IS INDEED AN ARTFORM, HOW TO DO IT, HOW TO COLLECT A RANDOM SAMPLE, HOW TO MAKE SURE YOU ARE ASKING THE RESISE QUESTIONS THAT YOU NEED, BUILDING IN THE BIAS FOR THE FACT THAT SOME PEOPLE SIMPLY LIE OR PERHAPS DISREMEMBER OR SAY ANYTHING TO GET YOU OFF OF THEIR DOOR STEPS.

THERE'S A LOT OF PROBLEMS WITH THIS REPORT, AND AS HOWIE SAID, THERE WERE TWO CONCRETE PIECES OF EVIDENCE IN THE CANVAS, ONLY TWO OFFERED.

THAT WAS THE VACANT LOT IN GOODYEAR AND ANOTHER VACANT LOT SUPPOSEDLY IN TEMPE.

THOSE ARE THE ONLY TWO VERIFIABLE PIECES OF INFORMATION AND THEY WERE BOTH WRONG.

I HAVE A PROBLEM THAT LIZ HARRIS, AN UNSUCCESSFUL REPUBLICAN LEGISLATIVE CANDIDATE BUT ALSO A REALTOR, HEADED UP THIS VOTER INTEGRITY PROJECT.

SHE'S A REALTOR, AND SHE COULDN'T FIGURE OUT HOW TO VERIFY THAT THERE WERE, INDEED, HOUSES AT ONE POINT, ON THE TWO PIECES OF PROPERTY.

>> I HAVE TO BELIEVE SHE KNEW HOW TO DO THAT, AND THE ONLY TWO PIECES OF EVIDENCE THAT COULD BE VERIFIED ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, WERE INSTANTLY DEBUNKED WITHIN TWO MINUTES.

TED: AGAIN, WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE?

DIDN'T SENATE PRESIDENT KAREN FANN SAY THERE WOULD BE NO CANVASSING, THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE SAID THERE WOULD BE NO CANVASSING?

>> YOU HAVE TO BE CAREFUL WHAT KAREN FANN AND THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE SAID.

THIS CANVASSING BY SOMEBODY ACTING ON BEHALF OF THE GOVERNMENT COULD BE VOTER INTIMIDATION AND PROMISED THERE WOULD BE NO CANVASSING BY THE SENATE, BY CYBER NINJAS.

THE QUESTION OF OUTSIDERS, LAURIE AND I CAN GO DOOR-TO-DOOR AND ASK PEOPLE DID YOU VOTE IN HOW HAVE YOU VOTED AND CAN PUT OUT OUR OWN REPORT.

ANYBODY CAN DO IT.

THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT MORE VALID.

THE PEOPLE HAVE AN AGENDA.

LOOK AT FOLKS INVOLVED WITH THIS, THEY START OUT WITH THE CONCLUSION THERE'S FRAUD AND ARE BACK FILLING IN THE NUMBERS AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM WITH THE WHOLE THING.

TED: QUICKLY BEFORE WE LEAVE THIS, SENATE PRESIDENT KAREN FANN TOLD THE CAP TIMES THAT MAYBE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SHOULD INVESTIGATE THIS.

REALLY?

>> YOU KNOW, THE PROBLEM WITH HER ALL ALONG IS THE REASON WE'RE DOING THIS AUDIT IS BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T TRUST THE ELECTION.

WELL, WHY DON'T PEOPLE TRUST THE ELECTION?

BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN PUMMELED WITH INFORMATION BY THE MARK FINCHEMS AND THE WENDY RODGERS AND THE KELLI WARDS AND ALL OF THESE PEOPLE AND THE SAME PEOPLE ACROSS THE COUNTRY THAT SOMETHING WAS WRONG WITH THIS ELECTION.

YOU'RE TOLD THAT ENOUGH, AND, OF COURSE, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BELIEVE THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG WITH THIS ELECTION, AND NOW YOU HAVE THIS CANVASS, WHICH IS LAUGHABLE, AND ACROSS THE COUNTRY WE'RE HEARING THIS IS THE EVIDENCE WE NEED.

WE NEED TO DECERTIFY ARIZONA'S ELECTION, WENDY RODGERS IS RAISING FUNDS OFF OF IT, SAYING WE HAD THIS DAMAGING THING AND IT'S A SMOKING GUN.

KAREN FANN, IF SHE WONDERS WHY PEOPLE QUESTION OUR ELECTION, PERHAPS LOOK NO FURTHER THAN THIS.

A BUNCH OF BOGUS INFORMATION THAT REINFORCES THIS BOGUS CLAIM AND DEBUNKED CLAIM THAT THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN.

IT'S A WASTE OF TIME.

TED: ALL RIGHT, THEN LET'S MOVE ON.

WHAT DO YOU SAY?

LOOK AT ATTORNEY GENERAL MARK BRNOVICH BASICALLY TOLD THE CITY OF TUCSON THAT MASK MANDATE YOU WANT FOR WORKERS, IT'S NO GOOD, DON'T DO IT, AND BY THE WAY, THERE ARE STATE REVENUE SHARING FUNDS INVOLVED HERE.

>> ACTUALLY TUCSON WENT BEYOND THE MASK MANDATE, THEY SAID EMPLOYEES HAVE TO BE VACCINATED.

TED: YOU'RE RIGHT, YOU'RE RIGHT.

>> HE'S SAYING YOU CAN'T DO THAT BECAUSE STATE LAW SAYS YOU CAN'T DO THAT.

WELL, HERE IT IS.

IT IS THE 10th OF SEPTEMBER FOR THE LAW THAT TAKES EFFECT ON THE 29th, WE'RE GOING TO GLOSS THAT OVER.

HE SAID BUT THE CITY IS DOING SOMETHING THAT WILL BE ILLEGAL IN THE FUTURE, AND THEREFORE, WE CAN SAY THAT YOU'RE VIOLATING THE LAW.

THE CITY'S POSITION, OTHER THAN THE FACT THE LAW IS NOT IN EFFECT IS THAT WE ARE DOING THIS AS AN EMPLOYER AND TO PROTECT THE HEALTH OF OUR EMPLOYEES AND TO PROTECT THE HEALTH OF THE PEOPLE THEY'RE INTERACTING WITH.

NOW WHAT'S AT ISSUE AS YOU POINT OUT IS THERE IS A STATE LAW THAT SAYS IF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FINDS THAT YOU ARE VIOLATING STATE LAW WITH SOMETHING YOU'RE DOING LOCALLY, THEY CAN TAKE ALL OF YOUR REVENUE SHARING DOLLARS.

THAT'S INCOME TAX SHARING, SALES TAX SHARING, AUTO IN LIEU TAX SHARING, WHICH FOR THE CITY OF TUCSON IS A BIG CHUNK OF THEIR BUDGET.

TED: YEAH, THIS COMPLAINT WAS FILED BY A STATE LAWMAKER FROM MESA?

>> I THINK IT WAS FILED BY KELLY TOWNSEND.

SHE THROWS OUT THE COMPLAINTS ALL THE TIME.

ALL IT TAKES IS ONE STATE LEGISLATOR, ONE, TO FILE THE COMPLAINT AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HAS TO DROP EVERYTHING, GO INVESTIGATE.

HE'S GOT VERY TIGHT TIME PRECIPES TO DEAL WITH AND THEN THE ONLY RECOURSE FOR THE CITY IS TO APPEAL TO THE SUPREME COURT, AND IF THEY LOSE, THEY LOSE BIG, THEY LOSE A LOT OF MONEY.

THE OTHER PIECE OF THIS THAT IS INTERESTING, HOWIE MENTIONED THE TUCSON ISN'T VIOLATING THIS LAW THAT DOES NOT -- IS NOT YET A LAW.

THE OTHER PIECE OF THIS IS WHEN THE GOVERNOR AND THE REPUBLICANS IN THE LEGISLATURE REALIZE THIS LAW WOULDN'T TAKE EFFECT UNTIL SEPTEMBER 29, DUCEY QUICKLY CAME UP WITH ANOTHER EMERGENCY ORDER TO BLOCK TUCSON FROM DOING WHAT IT IS.

LIKE THREE DAYS AFTER TUCSON DID THIS, HE PRODUCED ANOTHER EMERGENCY ORDER UNDER HIS POWERS GIVEN TO HIM BY A PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY.

THIS IS A GOVERNOR USING POWERS UNDER PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY TO SAY WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH OF A PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY TO WARRANT TAKING PRECAUTIONS IN YOUR CITY.

MY QUESTION WOULD BE, AT WHAT POINT DO THE EMERGENCY POWERS EXPIRE?

>> WELL, THEY DON'T EXPIRE AND THEREIN LIES PART OF THE PROBLEM.

HERE'S THE OTHER HALF OF WHAT LAURIE STARTED TO SAY.

IF YOU LOOK AT BASIS FOR THE GOVERNOR'S EMERGENCY POWER, HE CITED SOMETHING IN THE HEALTH CODE, DEALS WITH THE POWER OF THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT AND OF COUNTIES, IT DOES NOT DEAL WITH CITIES, BUT ONCE AGAIN, THIS IS LIKE THE GOVERNOR LASHING OUT THE UNIVERSITIES FOR IMPOSING MASK MANDATES WHEN THE LAW HE SIGNED DOESN'T PROHIBIT.

THAT HE'S NOT LOOKING AT THE THINGS HE'S SIGNING.

TED: AND LAURIE, QUICKLY.

>> AND IT'S A PERFECT OPPORTUNITY FOR MARK BRNOVICH, WHO'S RUNNING FOR THE U.S. SENATE, TO BURNISH UP THE LACKLUSTER CREDENTIALS OF HIS, AS THE FORMER PRESIDENT CALLED HIM, AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT GETTING TO HEAD OF THE PACK ON THIS PRIMARY COMING UP.

IT'S GOING TO BE A CROWDED SENATE PRIMARY.

ONE GUY, BLAKE MASTERS, HAS HIS BOSS, PETER THIEL WHO PLEDGED 10 MILLION IN MONEY TOWARD GETTING HIM ELECTED TO THE SENATE AND ALREADY OUT WITH AN AD ATTACKING BRNOVICH.

THIS IS ONE MORE OPPORTUNITY FOR BRNOVICH TO SAY SEE, I'M A GOOD REPUBLICAN AND VOTE FOR ME.

TED: IN A SIMILAR VEIN WITH GOVERNOR DUCEY VOWING TO PUSH BACK ON THE WHITE HOUSE, THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION, WE TALKED ABOUT THIS IN HEADLINES.

PUSHBACK, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

>> THIS WAS A GIFT HANDED TO DUCEY AND BRNOVICH YESTERDAY.

THE PRESIDENT AT 2:00 ARIZONA TIME SAID COMPANIES OVER 100, YOU'VE GOT TO GO AHEAD AND VACCINATE YOUR EMPLOYEES OR HAVE TO GET TESTED.

IMMEDIATE REACTION FROM THE GOVERNOR PROBABLY SIGHT UNSEEN IS THEY CAN'T DO THAT, HE'S EVIL, A DICTATOR AND EVERYTHING ELSE.

HERE'S THE THING, I'VE TALKED TO ATTORNEYS WHO UNDERSTAND LABOR LAW.

THIS IS BEING PROMULGATED AS EMERGENCY RULE FROM THE OCCUPATIONAL SAFETY AND HEALTH ADMINISTRATION.

OSHA HAS BROAD POWERS, ANY TIME THAT YOU ARE PROTECTING WORKER SAFETY.

THE IDEA OF WHY DO YOU WEAR A HELMET?

WHY DO YOU WEAR GOGGLES?

A FACE SHIELD AT CERTAIN JOBS AND HAVE SPECIFIC POWERS IN TERMS OF A GRAVE INJURY TO DO EMERGENCY RULES, AND THE FACT IS THAT THE STATE CAN PROTEST ALL IT WANTS BUT OSHA -- NO MORE THAN THE STATE COULD SAY YOU DON'T HAVE TO WEAR HELMETS BECAUSE OSHA SAYS.

TED: ONLY 30 SECONDS, LAURIE, WRAP THIS UP.

WHAT IS THE GOVERNOR DOING HERE?

>> THE GOVERNOR IS UPSET THAT THE PRESIDENT IS DICTATING RULES ON COVID, AND I'M WONDERING IF THE CITIES AND THE SCHOOLS AND THE COUNTIES ARE ALL SAYING, WELL, DUCEY, WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU'VE BEEN DOING WITH US FOR THE LAST 18 MONTHS?

YOU DICTATED THAT WE CAN'T REQUIRE MASKS, THAT WE CAN'T REQUIRE VACCINES, WE CAN'T, WE CAN'T, WE CAN'T UNDER THE EMERGENCY RULES.

DUCEY IS GETTING A DOSE OF HIS OWN MEDICINE.

AGAIN, IT'S A WINNING PROPOSITION TO BE A REPUBLICAN AND BE SEEN AS FIGHTING AGAINST THIS TYRANNY FROM THE GOVERNMENT, AND TO HECK WITH WHAT IT MEANS FOR ENDING THE PANDEMIC OR GETTING THROUGH IT IN A MORE GENTLE FASHION.

TED: GOT TO STOP IT RIGHT THERE.

LAURIE ROBERTS, "ARIZONA REPUBLIC," HOWIE FISCHER, CAPITOL MEDIA SERVICES, APPRECIATE HAVING YOU HERE AND MAKING SENSE OF ALL THIS.

>> THERE'S NO WAY TO MAKE SENSE OF IT.

TED: UP NEXT, ANOTHER ROUNDTABLE TO CONCLUDE OUR SPECIAL 9/11 COVERAGE.

>> AFTER THE 9/11 ATTACK THERE WAS A PUNJAUBY SHOT DEAD.

THAT MAN WAS MY COUSIN'S UNCLE.

WE WERE CONSCIOUS OF THE FACT THAT HAD BEEN HAPPENING IN TERMS OF DISCRIMINATION, WE COULD ADDRESS WHOLEHEARTEDLY, WHY CAN'T WE TAKE THE LESSONS WE LEARNED FROM TERRIBLE CIRCUMSTANCES AND APPLY THEM TO BECOME BETTER.

I WILL NEVER FORGET.

BALBIR SINGH SODHI .

TED: OUR SERIES OF INTERVIEWS CONCLUDES WITH TWO PEOPLE WHO REMEMBER FROM DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES.

OUR GUESTS, FORMER ARIZONA CONGRESSMAN JIM KOLBE AND "ARIZONA REPUBLIC" REPORTER MARY JO PITZL.

THANK YOU, BOTH FOR JOINING US FOR THIS SPECIAL EDITION OF THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE, AS WE LOOK BACK 20 YEARS ON 9/11.

JIM KOLBE, CONGRESSMAN JIM KOLBE AT THE TIME, OBVIOUSLY.

WHERE WERE YOU WHEN 9/11 HIT?

>> I WAS IN MY OFFICE.

IT WAS AN EARLY-MORNING, AND I HAD SOME MEETINGS COMING UP, AND I WAS PREPARING FOR THE MEETINGS FOR THE MESSAGES AND THE MATERIAL FOR THE MEETING, AND ONE OF MY STAFF CAME IN, MY PERSON CAME IN FROM THE ROOM NEXT TO ME AND SAID MY GOSH, A SMALL PLANE HIT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER, TURN IT ON.

WE TURNED THE TV ON.

I LOOKED AT IT.

MY FIRST THOUGHT IS IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE A SMALL PLANE, AND THEN, OF COURSE, I WENT WACK TO WORKING ON MY -- ASSUMING IT WAS STILL AN ACCIDENT, WENT BACK TO MY MATERIALS AND A FEW MINUTES LATER, SCREAM CAME FROM THE OTHER ROOM, OH, MY GOD, AND LOOKED UP JUST IN TIME TO SEE THE SECOND PLANE HIT THE SECOND TOWER.

THAT'S WHEN WE KNEW WHAT THIS WAS ALL ABOUT, AND STARTED TELLING PEOPLE TO GET OUT OF BUILDING AND TO LEAVE.

TED: MARY JO, WHERE WERE YOU?

>> I WAS ON MY BACK PATIO PAINTING WINDOW FRAMES.

IT WAS EARLY IN THE MORNING, AND I HAD STEPPED INTO THE HOUSE AND HAD A RADIO PLAYING, AND I HEARD THEM IN PASSING SAYING SOMETHING ABOUT THE MARKETS ARE CLOSED.

I SAID THIS IS TUESDAY, MARKETS AREN'T CLOSED ON TUESDAY.

WHAT'S THAT?

GAVE A CLOSER LISTEN AND REALIZED WHAT WAS GOING ON, AND LIKE ANY GOOD PRINT JOURNALIST, I RAN TO MY TELEVISION TO CATCH THE NEWS AND CALLED THE DESK TO FIND OUT WHERE DO I GO?

WE WERE DEPLOYED ALL ACROSS THE CITY.

TED: I WANT TO GET TO THAT IN A SECOND.

JIM, AS FAR AS YOU'RE CONCERNED, THERE HAD TO BE CONFUSION, INFORMATION WAS TRANSMITTED DIFFERENTLY THAN NOW.

TALK ABOUT THOSE FOLLOWING MINUTES AND HOURS.

>> YEAH, INFORMATION WAS TRANSMITTED DIFFERENTLY.

WE ALL HAD BLACKBERRIES AS PHONES AS PREDECESSORS OF THE iPHONES THAT WE ALL HAVE NOW.

WE HAD BLACKBERRIES, BUT COULDN'T SEND OUT A MESSAGE TO EVERYBODY ON THE BLACKBERRY.

DIDN'T HAVE THE CAPACITY AT THAT TIME.

THEY WERE MAKING INDIVIDUAL CALLS TO PEOPLE TELLING THEM.

MAINLY WHAT HAPPENED IS THE POLICE CAME RUNNING UP AND DOWN THE CORE DOORS OF ALL THE OFFICE BUILDINGS YELLING LEAVE, LEAVE, GET OUT, GO, GO, RUN, EVACUATE THE BUILDING HERE.

AND, OF COURSE, ON THE FLOOR OF THE HOUSE AFTER ONE HIT THE PENTAGON, THEY KNEW THERE WAS ANOTHER PLANE IN THE AIR, AND THAT'S WHEN THEY ABRUPTLY ADJOURNED THE SESSION IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SENTENCE, AND EVERYBODY FLED AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.

MOST OF MY STAFF, THEY SHUT THE BRIDGES, THEY SHUT THE TRANSIT SYSTEM, THE SUBWAYS, BUSES, EVERYTHING WAS SHUT, I HAD STAFF THAT WALKED EIGHT, NINE MILES ACROSS THE BRIDGE BEFORE THEY GOT HOME LATER IN THE AFTERNOON.

TED: REPORTING, AS JOURNALISTS, CONFUSION, YOU HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WAS GOING ON.

WE ALL HEARD IT WAS A SMALL PLANE AND REMEMBER THINKING AT THE TIME, THAT'S A SUNNY DAY, HOW DOES A PLANE GO INTO A BUILDING ON A SUNNY DAY LIKE THAT?

>> YEAH, YEAH.

BEING IN PHOENIX AND FAR FROM THE SCENE OF THE ACTION, OUR MISSION WAS TO FIND OUT WHO, ANY ARIZONANS INVOLVED IN THIS, WHAT ARE THE RIPPLE EFFECTS OF THIS AND WHAT'S HAPPENING IN OUR CITY?

I WAS SENT TO A LOCAL SCHOOL, KENNELWORTH ELEMENTARY BECAUSE THERE WAS A RUMOR THERE WAS A BOMB PLANTED IN THE DECK PARK TUNNEL AND THE SCHOOL SITS ABOVE THE TUNNEL, SO THERE WERE CONCERNS SOMETHING MIGHT BE GOING DOWN AT THE SCHOOL.

BY THE TIME I GOT THERE, PARENTS WERE PICKING UP THEIR KIDS HEADING HOME.

WE HAD PEOPLE ALL ACROSS THE CITY.

WHEN I GOT DONE WITH MY SCHOOL ASSIGNMENT, I WENT INTO THE OFFICE AND STOPPED ON THE WAY FOR A STARBUCKS, PRETTY NORMAL, THE STORE WAS CLOSED IN DOWNTOWN PHOENIX.

DOWNTOWN PHOENIX WAS CLOSED.

IT WAS SHUTTERED.

OUR OFFICE WAS OPEN, AND WE SAID TO WORK, PUTTING OUT A SPECIAL EDITION THAT DAY.

TED: ROUND THE CLOCK, 24/7, I'M SURE.

>> YES.

TED: JIM, ON CAPITOL HILL, IS THERE A PRE-9/11, POST-9/11 WHEN IT COMES TO HOW CONGRESS DOES BUSINESS AND HOW SECURITY AND PRECAUTIONS ARE TAKEN CARE OF BACK THERE?

>> WELL, YES, OF COURSE.

SECURITY IS MUCH TIGHTER NOW THAN IT WAS THEN.

ACTUALLY IT REALLY CHANGED FAIRLY DRAMATICALLY, A COUPLE OF YEARS BEFORE WHEN WE HAD THE SHOOTING OF THE PERSON WHO BARGED THROUGH THE DOOR NEXT TO TOM DeLAY, THE MAJORITY WHIP'S OFFICE, BARGED THAT DOOR AND SHOT THE POLICEMAN AND THEN SHOT THE PERSON INSIDE, ONE OF THE STAFF PEOPLE AT DOOR THERE.

SHOT TWO PEOPLE.

THAT'S WHEN THEY DECIDED WE'VE GOT TO HAVE A BETTER SYSTEM, THERE WERE LIKE EIGHT, NINE, TEN, SEPARATE ENTRANCES WITH METAL DETECTORS AND POLICE, BUT THEY WERE INSIDE THE CAPITOL BUILDING, THAT'S WHEN THEY SAID WE OUGHT TO CHANGE THIS AND DECIDED TO BUILD THE UNDERGROUND VISITORS WOULD ENTER THROUGH THAT.

IT WAS A LONG PROCESS, OF COURSE, IT TOOK NINE YEARS TO FINISH THAT, AND AFTER 9/11, THEY CHANGED THE DESIGN OF IT, AGAIN, TO PUT MEETING ROOMS FOR THE CONGRESSMEN AND REPRESENTATIVES OF THE SENATE SO THEY WOULD BE PROTECTED FROM BOMBS.

A LOT OF THINGS CHANGED AS A RESULT OF THAT.

NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT.

TED: MARY JO, AS FAR AS STORIES THAT YOU COVERED AFTER 9/11, WHAT STICKS OUT THE MOST?

>> THE STORY I DIDN'T GET TO DO.

THE DAY I WAS AT THE SCHOOL, IN MY INTERVIEWS, I TALKED TO, I THOUGHT IT WAS THE PRINCIPAL, I CHECKED MY 20-YEAR-OLD CLIPS, IT WAS THE SCHOOL SUPERINTENDENT, MALE, AND SAID HIS SON JUST REGISTERED FOR THE DRAFT BECAUSE HE WAS OF AGE AND HIS SON CAME UP TO HIM AND SAID DAD, ARE WE GOING TO GO TO WAR?

OF COURSE, THIS IS SEPTEMBER 11TH AND HIS DAD IS LIKE, I DON'T KNOW, I WANTED TO GO BACK TO FIND OUT IF HIS SON WAS ENLISTED.

THE SPECIAL EDITION, WE HAD A FULL PAGE OF THE AMERICAN FLAG, THAT WAS A SUGGESTION FROM A READER WHO SAID THAT WOULD BE A SIGN OF ENDURANCE.

WE RUN LOTS OF STATEMENTS AND THERE WAS A STATEMENT FROM REPRESENTATIVE COLBY WHICH READ, I AM HORRIFIED AND SADDENED BEYOND BELIEF AT THE TERRORISTS ATTACKED LAUNCHED AT TARGETS IN NEW YORK CITY AND WASHINGTON.

WE WILL USE EVERY RESOURCE AVAILABLE TO US TO FIND THE PERPETRATORS AND BRING THEM TO JUSTICE.

TED: YEAH, JIM, BACK AT THE TIME, THIS COUNTRY WAS UNIFIED.

I MEAN, IT WAS ONE NATION FOR ALL HERE.

THAT HAS OBVIOUSLY CHANGED.

TALK ABOUT WHAT IT WAS LIKE THEN, AND WHY AND HOW IT CHANGED?

>> PROBABLY MY MOST ENDURING MEMORY OF THAT DAY WAS THAT EVENING WHEN THEY CALLED US ALL BACK TO THE CAPITOL AFTER THINGS HAD CALMED DOWN AND WE KNEW THERE WERE NO MORE PLANES NO MORE ATTACKERS IMMEDIATELY INVOLVED.

IT WAS DUSK ON THE STEPS OF THE CAPITOL AS WE GATHERED THERE AND SPONTANEOUSLY, THE WHOLE HOUSE, REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS, BURST INTO SINGING GOD BLESS AMERICA, AND I THINK THE STAR-SPANGLED BAERN BANNER AS WELL, IT WAS THE INCREDIBLE MOMENT OF PEOPLE UNIFYING AND FEELING LIKE WE WERE ONE AND KNEW WE HAD BEEN ATTACKED, BUT WE WERE ONE PEOPLE, ONE NATION.

SO SAD TO SEE HOW WE'VE LOST SO MUCH OF THAT, IN PART BECAUSE OF THE EVENTS THAT FOLLOWED 9/11.

THE WAR IN AFGHANISTAN THAT LED ON FOR 20 YEARS.

THE WAR IN IRAQ.

THE MISSTATEMENTS BY ADMINISTRATIONS, THE MISTREATMENT OF PRISONERS, WE LOST A LOT OF OUR MORAL AUTHORITY IN THE WORLD AFTER THAT, AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, WE LOST THE COHESION, THE SENSE OF COMING TOGETHER, AND COVID HASN'T BROUGHT US TOGETHER THE WAY WE THOUGHT IT WOULD.

TED: YEAH, YEAH, AS FAR AS JOURNALISM IS CONCERNED, HOW DID 9/11 CHANGE JOURNALISM?

>> I THINK IT MADE JOURNALISTS MORE IN TUNE TO THE PARTISAN DIVIDES AND PERHAPS WE PLAY INTO THAT ALMOST TOO MUCH, BUT IT HAS ALSO BROUGHT OUT A LOT OF STORIES OF HUMANITY AS YOU LOOK AT THE AFTERMATH OF 9/11 AND THE VICTIMS.

IF YOU RECALL HERE, THERE WAS A MAN WHO WAS OF THE SIKH FAITH, AND HE WAS MURDERED.

TED: RIGHT.

>> A DAY OR TWO AFTER 9/11 OUT OF THE MISTAKEN BELIEF THAT HE WAS ONE OF THE TERRORISTS.

SO THERE'S HEIGHTENED AWARENESS OF THE CULTURAL DIVERSITY THAT WE HAVE IN THIS COUNTRY AND RECOGNIZING THAT AND HELPING TO EDUCATE PEOPLE ABOUT THAT.

TED: WE'LL CLOSE, JIM, WITH YOU, AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME BACK THERE IN WASHINGTON.

HOW WILL YOU REMEMBER 9/11 TOMORROW?

>> TOMORROW, I WILL BE WITH FRIENDS AND WE WILL PROBABLY PAUSE.

I'M NOT SURE WHETHER WE'LL GO DOWN TOWARDS THE CAPITOL TO BE THERE IN PLACE THERE, BUT I'M CERTAINLY GOING TO BE WITH FRIENDS AND REMEMBERING WHAT HAPPENED THAT DAY AND TALKING ABOUT IT.

WE HAVE SOME DINNER GUESTS TONIGHT.

THEY WERE INFANTS, THESE YOUNG PEOPLE THAT ARE COMING TO DINNER TONIGHT.

THEY WERE INFANTS AT TIME.

NOW GRADUATES OF COLLEGE.

AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR THEM TO KNOW HOW SOME OF US REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED THAT DAY.

TED: YEAH, CONGRESSMAN JIM KOLBE, FORMER ARIZONA CONGRESSMAN, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US FROM WASHINGTON.

MARY JO PITZL, "ARIZONA REPUBLIC," ALWAYS A PLEASURE, THANK YOU BOTH, VERY MUCH.

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>> THANK YOU.

WHAT 9/11 DID IS MADE THE WORLD VERY SMALL.

YOU SEE TONS OF HUMANITY AFTER 9/11.

THAT'S CONTINUED.

BUT I ALSO THINK TOO, IT SHOWED AN UGLY SIDE OF THE WORLD, TOO.

THE DISCRIMINATION, YOU SAW THE HATRED.

I HAVE TO BE AN ADVOCATE FOR THOSE BECAUSE ANYTHING CAN TRIGGER THE HATEFULNESS IN PEOPLE JUST LIKE ANYTHING CAN TRIGGER THE LOVE IN THEM AS WELL.

MY NAME IS EBONY DELANEY AND I WILL NEVER FORGET.

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TED: AND THAT IS IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.

COMING UP IN THE NEXT HALF HOUR, CRONKITE NEWS FOLLOWED BY "BREAK IT DOWN," A LOOK AT HOW THE UNITED STATES CHANGED AFTER THE 9/11 ATTACKS.