TED: COMING UP IN THE NEXT HOUR OF LOCAL NEWS ON ARIZONA PBS.

ON "ARIZONA HORIZON," HOW THE FREQUENCY AND SERIOUSNESS OF HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL CONCUSSIONS HAVE CHANGED OVER THE PAST TEN YEARS?

>>> AND ON CRONKITE NEWS, CONGRESSMAN GREG STANTON HOLDS A ROUNDTABLE ON REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS, IN THE NEXT HOUR OF ARIZONA PBS.

>> THIS HOUR OF LOCAL NEWS IS MADE POSSIBLE BY CONTRIBUTIONS FROM THE FRIENDS OF PBS, MEMBERS OF YOUR PBS STATION, THANK YOU.

TED: GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

THE STATE SENATE PLANS TO RELEASE SELF-STYLED AUDIT OF MARICOPA COUNTY AND U.S. SENATE VOTES A WEEK FROM TOMORROW AT 1:00 P.M., ACCORDING TO AMERICAN OVERSIGHT, THE WATCHDOG GROUP THAT SUCCESSFULLY SUED THE SENATE TO GAIN ACCESS TO ALL COMMUNICATION BETWEEN LAWMAKERS AND CYBER NINJAS, THE COMPANY CONDUCTING THE REVIEW.

THE COURT DECISION TO RELEASE THE DOCUMENTS CAME DOWN YESTERDAY BUT CYBERNINJAS TOLD THE COURT THEY NEED UP TO 30 DAYS TO COMPLY BECAUSE THEY'RE SO BUSY.

APPARENTLY CYBER NINJAS AND SENATE PRESIDENT KAREN FANN WERE NOT TOO BUSY TO ATTEND A GATHERING TO CELEBRATE THE SELF-STYLED AUDIT AND THANKED THE VOLUNTEERS WHO TOOK PART IN THE SENATE'S RECOUNT.

THE PHOTOS WERE TWEETED BY STATE SENATOR WENDY ROGERS WHO DESCRIBED THE VOLUNTEERS AS, QUOTE, DOING THE LORD'S WORK >>> KATIE HOBBS WENT ON CNN TO CRITICIZE THE RECOUNT ALONG WITH THOSE WHO SHE SAYS KNOW BETTER.

>> WE HAVE ELECTED LEADERS IN OUR STATE, WHO KNOW THE TRUTH.

THEY SAT AND CERTIFIED THE ELECTION RESULTS IN NOVEMBER AND THEY'VE BEEN SILENT, BECAUSE THE POLITICAL CONSEQUENCES, OR WHATEVER REASON, AND IT'S JUST WRONG.

THE TRUTH ABOUT THE ELECTION IS IT WAS FAIR, SECURE, ACCURATE, AND WE NEED MORE LEADERS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE WILLING TO STAND UP AND DEFEND THAT.

TED: AND MARICOPA COUNTY BOARD OF SUPERVISORS TODAY ANNOUNCED A MEETING FOR TOMORROW AFTERNOON TO DISCUSS THE SENATE'S LATEST SUBPOENAS OVER ROUTERS AND CENTRALIZED LOGS OF VOTING DATA AT THE SENATE AND CYBER NINJAS SAID THEY NEEDED TO CONDUCT THEIR REVIEW.

THE COUNTY IS FIGHTING THE SUBPOENAS SAYING THE INFORMATION WOULD COMPROMISE THE SECURITY OF THE COUNTRY AND RESIDENTS.

ATTORNEY GENERAL MARK BRNOVICH IS DETERMINED IF THE COUNTY DOESN'T COMPLY, THEY COULD LOSE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF STATE SHARED REVENUE HALF OF OPERATING BUDGET FOR THE YEAR.

THE COUNTY MEETING IS SET FOR 4:45 TOMORROW >>> MORE THAN 2800 NEW COVID CASES WITH 27 COVID-RELATED DEATHS.

HOSPITALIZATIONS FOR COVID REMAIN AT LEVELS AS HIGH AS THEY'VE BEEN SINCE FEBRUARY >>> A NEW STUDY SUGGESTS WALKING 7,000 STEPS A DAY INCREASES LIVE EXPECTANCY.

RESEARCHERS TRACKED 2100 PEOPLE BETWEEN 38 AND 50 FOR NEARLY 11 YEARS AND FOUND THAT THOSE WHO WALKED AT LEAST 7,000 STEPS A DAY HAD A 50 TO 70% LOWER RISK OF PREMATURE ALL-CAUSE MORTALITY.

RECOMMENDS ADULTS SHOULD MOVE MORE AND SIT LESS >>> AND NASA SCIENTISTS FOUND EVIDENCE THAT AT LEAST ONE AREA OF MARS HAS EXPERIENCED THOUSANDS OF VOLCANIC ERUPTIONS.

THE RESEARCH SUGGESTS THE ERUPTIONS OCCURRED OVER A00 MILLION-YEAR PERIOD AND THESE WERE, QUOTE, SUPER ERUPTIONS, EACH ONE WOULD HAVE BEEN CAPABLE OF RELEASING OCEANS OF DUST AND GAS AND BLOCKING OUT SUNLIGHT, CHANGING THE PLANET'S CLIMATE FOR DECADES >>> IT'S BEEN TEN YEARS SINCE THE BARROW NEUROLOGICAL INSTITUTE ISSUED BARROW BRAINBOOK WITH THE FIRST MANDATORY EDUCATION FOR HIGH SCHOOL ATHLETES ON CONCUSSIONS.

SINCE THEN THE BARROW BRAINBOOK PROVIDED CONCUSSION EDUCATION TO ONE MILLION STUDENT-ATHLETES.

DR. JAVIER CARDENAS JOINED US TO DISCUSS THE BRAINBOOK AND HOW IT'S IMPACTED CONCUSSION RATES ON HIGH SCHOOL ATHLETES.

DR. CARDENAS, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US, WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

WE'RE TALKING CONCUSSIONS HERE.

LET'S DEFINE TERMS.

WHAT IS A CONCUSSION?

>> IN BASIC FORM, A CONCUSSION IS AN INJURY TO THE BRAIN.

IN FACT, IT'S THE MILDEST TRAUMATIC BRAIN INJURY WHICH MEANS IF SOMEBODY SITS THEIR HEAD OR FORCE APPLIED TO THEIR BODY THAT THEY HAVE A CHANGE IN NEUROLOGICAL FUNCTION.

THE MOST OBVIOUS CHANGE OF NEUROLOGICAL FUNCTION IS GETTING KNOCKED OUT.

THAT'S NOT THE MOST COMMON.

THE MOST COMMON IS GAPE IN MEMORY, YOU CAN BE CONFUSED, DISORIENTED, DIZZY, HAVE YOUR BELL RUNG, HAVE BLURRY VISION AND WOULD INDICATE A CHANGE IN BRAIN FUNCTION AND THEREFORE A TRAUMATIC BRAIN INJURY, A CONCUSSION.

TED: WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT THE LONG-TERM EFFECTS OF CONCUSSIONS?

>> WELL, SO WHEN IT COMES TO LONG-TERM EFFECTS, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WHO SUFFER FROM A CONCUSSION ACTUALLY HAVE A COMPLETE RECOVERY, AND THAT IS TRUE BEFORE AND THAT IS TRUE TODAY.

AND IN FACT, TODAY THERE ARE MORE OPPORTUNITIES TO HAVE THAT COMPLETE RECOVERY.

THE BIGGEST ISSUE THAT WE SAW IN THE PAST WAS PEOPLE DID NOT HAVE A COMPLETE RECOVERY BEFORE THEY WENT BACK.

OUR ATHLETES SPECIFICALLY BACK TO PLAY AND SUFFERED A SECOND INJURY.

WHEN WE SAW COMPOUNDING CONCUSSIONS, THEN INDEED WE SAW MORE RISK FOR LONG-TERM INJURIES.

SOME OF THOSE LONG-TERM DEFICITS INCLUDE TROUBLE WITH THINKING AND MEMORY, HEADACHES, TROUBLE WITH BALANCE, TROUBLE WITH SLEEP.

MORE SEVERE THINGS, OF COURSE, INCLUDING DEMENTIA, AS WELL AS ISSUES WITH THE PITUITARY GLAND IN THE MIDDLE OF OUR BRAIN.

TED: SUCH A FOCUS ON HIGH SCHOOL ATHLETES.

WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT THE LONG-TERM EFFECTS OF CONCUSSIONS ON HIGH SCHOOL ATHLETES?

I THINK FOOTBALL'S A FOCUS, YOU GOT SOCCER, OTHER SPORTS AS WELL.

WHAT HAVE WE LEARNED?

WHAT HAVE YOU LEARNED?

>> WELL, IN FACT, OUR FOCUS HAS NOT JUST BEEN ON FOOTBALL, BUT CLEARLY THAT GARNERS THE MAJORITY OF THE ATTENTION OVER THE LAST TEN YEARS, WE'VE IMPLEMENT AID NUMBER OF EDUCATIONAL TOOLS, A NUMBER OF PROTOCOLS, NUMBER OF POLICIES THAT ADDRESS MANY SPORTS, INCLUDING SOCCER.

WHEN IT COMES TO HIGH SCHOOLS, AND ESPECIALLY IN ARIZONA, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, THERE'S NO BETTER PLACE TO HAVE A CONCUSSION THAN IN ARIZONA, WHICH IS A WEIRD THING TO SAY, BUT BECAUSE OF THESE POLICIES AND PROCEDURES, EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES THAT WE HAVE, AND THE SUPPORT AFTER AN INJURY, WE HAVE A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO KEEP OUR KIDS SAFE FOR THE SHORT TERM AND FOR THE LONG TERM.

TED: AND THE BARROW BRAINBOOK IS VERY MUCH BEHIND ALL OF THIS, IS IT NOT?

>> YES, IT IS.

IN FACT, TEN YEARS AGO, WE LAUNCHED BARROW BRAINBOOK WHICH, AT THE TIME, WAS THE FIRST CONCUSSION EDUCATION TOOL THAT ADDRESSED WITH WHOM THIS MATTERS MOST, AND THAT, OF COURSE, IS THE HIGH SCHOOL ATHLETE.

WHAT WE WANTED TO DO WAS TO EMPOWER THE ATHLETE WITH THE EDUCATION SO THEY CAN IDENTIFY THEIR OWN SYMPTOMS.

THEY CAN IDENTIFY SIGNS IN FELLOW ATHLETES THAT THEY CAN REMOVE THEMSELVES FROM PLAY, TAKE THE RIGHT PROCESSES AND PROCEDURES TO MAKE SURE THEY GOT THE RIGHT AMOUNT OF HELP AND GO BACK WHETHER IT WAS SAFE.

SINCE THAT TIME, TEN YEARS AGO, WE'VE HAD OVER A MILLION HIGH SCHOOL ATHLETES COMPLETE THIS EDUCATION.

THE MAJORITY OF THEM IN ARIZONA, BUT ALSO OTHER PLACES AROUND THE COUNTRY.

TED: IT'S INTERESTING, IF MORE PEOPLE ARE AWARE OF CONCUSSIONS ARE, YOU SEEING INCREASE IN REPORTED CONCUSSIONS?

MAYBE MORE OF A FOCUS ON CONCUSSIONS BUT BECAUSE MORE PEOPLE KNOW WHAT IT IS AND HOW TO HANDLE IT, HAS THERE BEEN AN INCREASE IN REPORTS?

>> HAVE BEEN AN INCREASE IN REPORTS.

IN FACT, WHAT WE SAW AROUND THAT TIME, IN 10 YEARS AGO, DECREASE IN EMERGENCY ROOM VISITS FOR CONCUSSIONS.

A BIG PART OF THAT IS NOT ONLY THE EDUCATION WE'RE DELIVERING, BUT A LOT OF THE INFORMATION IN THE COMMUNITY AND THE MEDIA AROUND CONCUSSIONS SO PEOPLE TOOK IT MORE SERIOUSLY.

WE'VE SEEN THAT SINCE LEVEL OFF SINCE THAT TIME, AND SEEN A DECLINE.

IN FACT, WHEN YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE DATA AROUND CONCUSSIONS AND THE TIME BETWEEN CONCUSSIONS, THE NCAA DID A STUDY OVER A DECADE AGO, THAT SHOWED THE TIME BETWEEN THE FIRST AND SECOND CONCUSSION WAS SIX DAYS, AND THEN THEY REPEATED IT A FEW YEARS LATER, OR A FEW YEARS AGO, RATHER, AND FOUND IT WAS CLOSER TO 60 DAYS.

SO THIS TELLS US THAT, IN FACT, PEOPLE ARE GETTING BETTER, THEY HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO GET BETTER, AND WE'RE SEEING THAT IN OUR HIGH SCHOOL ATHLETE AS WELL.

>> THE WORD IS OBVIOUSLY GETTING OUT.

WITH ALL THIS IN MIND, DOCTOR, WHAT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO KNOW WHEN IT COMES TO CONCUSSIONS, WE CAN FOCUS ON HIGH SCHOOL ATHLETES, BUT THE THING IS GET TREATMENT BEFORE YOU'RE EXPOSED AGAIN?

>> THAT'S THE KEY PIECE THAT THERE IS TREATMENT.

FOR MANY YEARS, THERE ARE PEOPLE TOLD JUST GO HOME AND WAIT AND GET BETTER, BE PATIENT.

GO REST, AND THE PROBLEM, IS IN FACT, THERE ARE ACTIVE THINGS ONE CAN DO TO GET BETTER.

PHYSICAL ACTIVITY, COGNITIVE ACTIVITY, SOCIAL ACTIVITY.

THERE ARE THERAPEUTIC INTERVENTIONS THAT DON'T REQUIRE MEDICINE THAT CAN ACTUALLY HELP PEOPLE GET BETTER, SO NUMBER ONE IS, OF COURSE, THE PREVENTING FURTHER INJURY AND REPEAT INJURY, AND NUMBER TWO IS THAT THERE ARE THERAPEUTIC INTERVENTIONS TO HELP AN INDIVIDUAL RECOVER FROM A CONCUSSION.

TED: VERY GOOD, DR. JAVIER CARDENAS, BARROW CONCUSSION BRAIN INJURY CENTER.

GREAT WORK.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US, WE APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY.

TED: AND UP NEXT, A MULTIMEDIA ARTIST TALKS ABOUT HIS CONTRIBUTION TO AN EXHIBIT THAT FOCUSES ON THE HISTORY OF INCARCERATION.

.

TED: ASU'S ART MUSEUM FOCUSES ON BONDAGE, CAGES AND OFTEN PEOPLE OF COLOR, UNDOING TIME, ART AND HISTORIES OF INCARCERATION AND EXAMINES WAYS OF LOOKING AT THE CARCERAL SYSTEM.

SHANA FISCHER AND RUDY ROMO TAKE US TO THE EXHIBIT.

>> AS YOU WALK AROUND UNDOING TIME, YOU WON'T SEE BARS OR JUMPSUITS, TYPICAL SYMBOLS OF INCARCERATION.

>> MASS INCARCERATION IS ONE OF THE MOST PREEMINENT EVENTS OF OUR TIME.

>> HE'S BEEN WORKING ON THE PROJECT FOR THREE YEARS.

>> THREE YEARS AND ARTIST INTERVIEWS.

>> Reporter: CULMINATING IN WORK WHOSE INSTALLATIONS CREATE MAINSTREAM VIEWS OF INCARCERATION.

>> I LIKE TO DO WORK ABOUT REPERCUSSIONS.

I REALLY LIKE TO SHOW PEOPLE THE REPERCUSSIONS OF THINGS THAT HAPPEN.

I THINK THAT'S THE BEST WAY FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND THE PROBLEM IS YOU START FROM THE REPERCUSSIONS.

>> Reporter: GUATEMALAN JUAN BRENNER CENTERS HIS LENS ON THE BRUTAL EFFECTS OF COLONIALISM AND GANGS IN HIS HOMELAND.

THIS INSTALLATION CHALLENGED HIM IN A NEW WAY.

>> IT'S HARD TO UNDERSTAND INCARCERATION WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE SOMEONE LIKE REALLY CLOSE TO YOU, OR YOU HAVE BEEN INCARCERATED.

>> Reporter: HIS WORK ENTITLED CITY OF WALLS, TELLS THE STORIES OF OUTSIDERS AFFECTED BY THE CARCERAL SYSTEM.

IN THIS CASE, A SMALL MAYAN FARM TOWN.

>> A HUGE JAIL IN THE MIDDLE OF THE MOUNTAINS, JUST BECAUSE THERE IS SPACE THERE.

IT WAS IMPORTANT FOR ME TO SHOW PEOPLE THAT AFTER YOU MAKE THAT DECISION, A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SUFFER THE REPERCUSSIONS OF THAT.

>> Reporter: BRENNER'S WORK EXAMINES BOTH SIDES OF THE ISSUE.

>> PEOPLE THAT ARE REALLY HAPPY WITH THAT CENTER BEING THERE BECAUSE THEY MAKE THEIR MONEY OUT OF THAT.

LAWYERS.

THIS GUY THAT SELLS ICE CREAM EVERY TIME THERE'S A VISIT, HE GOES THERE, SITS THERE AND SELLS ALL THE ICE CREAM HE NEEDS IN AN HOUR, BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, HOW PEOPLE HAVE TO ABANDON THEIR HOUSES BECAUSE THE ECOSYSTEM CREATED AROUND THE JAIL IS SO DANGEROUS, YOU KNOW?

LIKE WHEN SOMEONE GOES THERE, THEIR FAMILY, FRIENDS AND ASSOCIATES FOLLOW.

>> Reporter: WHILE BRENNER FOCUSES ON A SINGLE COMMUNITY, MULTIMEDIA ARTIST CATALINA FERNANDEZ SETS HER SIGHTS ON LARGER FIELDS.

>> THE INSTALLATION TITLE IS TRANSLATED TO MULTIPLE LAYERS.

SO THE TITLE COMES FROM THE MULTIPLE LAYERS OF THE SOIL, AND THE MULTIPLE LAYERS OF THE CARCERAL SYSTEM.

>> Reporter: SHE IS INTERESTED IN THE ROLE FOOD AND FOOD PRODUCTION PLAY IN INCARCERATING PEOPLE, BE IT THROUGH FARM WORK OR DESERTS, PLACES WITH A LACK OF ACCESS TO FOOD.

HER INSTALLATION HAS TWO PARTS.

>> HAS MATERIALS LIKE SOIL, ADOBE, CLAY, PLANTS, COTTON, CHARCOAL.

>> Reporter: THE MATERIALS ARE LAYERED IN HANGING PLANTERS, HOLDING CACTI, HERBS AND SEEDS, GROWN BY THE BOLIVIAN BORN ARTIST, LIGHTS SIT ABOVE THEM MEANT TO MIMIC PRISON LIGHTS USED TO CONTROL AND MANIPULATE.

THE COMPANION PIECE REPRESENTS AN ARGUMENT AGAINST GIANT CORPORATIONS THAT PROFIT FROM THE CARCERAL SYSTEM.

SHE STARTS BY CARVING THEIR NAMES IN HAND MADE ADOBE TILES, SOME SHE DECADES IN GOLD LEAF AS A SYMBOL OF POWER.

LAYS THE TILES ON THE FLOOR AND INVITES THE MUSEUMGOER TO STEP ON THEM.

>> THIS STORY IS SOMETHING I WANT THE VIEWERS TO ENGAGE WITH LITERALLY.

PHYSICALLY TO STEP ON THE FLOOR, FEEL THE CRACKING THAT THE FLOOR WILL BREAK, SO WHAT CRACKING FEELS ON THE FEET.

>> Reporter: THE OTHER INSTALLATIONS INCLUDE A SMALL SCALE MOVIE LIKE SET OF A PIZZERIA WHICH TELLS THE STORY OF TWO FRIENDS FROM A LITTLE LEAGUE TEAM WHO MEET UP AT THEIR FAVORITE CHILDHOOD SPOT, THE PIZZERIA AFTER ONE IS RELEASED FROM PRISON.

THE ULTIMATE GOAL OF UNDOING TIME IS TO LOCK AWAY OLD LANGUAGE AND CONVERSATIONS AROUND INCARCERATION.

>> I THINK ART, IT'S THE BEST TOOL, WHEN YOU ARE EXPOSED TO IT, YOU EITHER LEARN SOMETHING NEW THAT YOU DIDN'T THINK YOU WERE GOING TO BUMP INTO OR LEARN, OR CONFIRM SOMETHING THAT YOU FEEL IDENTIFIED WITH, AND I THINK THAT MOMENT IS REALLY, REALLY SPECIAL WITH ART.

TED: ANOTHER ARTIST IN THE EXHIBIT, PAUL RUCKER, COMBINES ORIGINAL ART WITH ORIGINAL COMPOSITION PIECES TO EXPLORE ISSUES SUCH AS HUMAN RIGHTS AND BASIC HUMAN EMOTIONS.

WE SPOKE TO PAUL RUCKER ABOUT HIS ART AND WHAT HE WANTS PEOPLE TO TAKE FROM HIS WORK.

PAUL RUCKER, WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU, GREAT TO BE HERE.

TED: TALK ABOUT THE EXHIBIT, UNDOING TIME, ARTS AND HISTORIES OF INCARCERATION.

WHAT'S THIS ALL ABOUT?

>> ABOUT INCARCERATION AND THE HISTORY AND INFLUENCE OF ART IN RELATION TO INCARCERATION, AND THE UNITED STATES IS SOMEWHAT UNIQUE IN THE WORLD OF INCARCERATION BECAUSE THE WORLD'S PRISON POPULATION, THE U.S. IS 5% OF THE WORLD'S POPULATION.

WE HAVE 25% OF THE WORLD'S PRISON POPULATION.

THAT'S 2.3 MILLION PEOPLE.

ONE OUT OF EVERY 99 PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES IS INCARCERATED.

TED: AND WITH THAT IN MIND, ARE THERE WAYS TO ADDRESS THIS ISSUE?

THIS IS ADDRESSING THE ISSUE THROUGH ART.

HOW DOES THAT WORK?

>> THERE'S 12 DIFFERENT ARTISTS AND EACH BRINGING THEIR OWN TAKE AND THEIR OWN PERSPECTIVE AROUND THE ISSUES.

AND I'M BRINGING MY OWN PERSPECTIVE AS WELL.

I THINK ART HAS A POWER TO TELL STORIES, HAS THE POWER TO CREATE EMPATHY AND UNDERSTANDING AROUND THESE ISSUES, AND THERE'S A STIGMA PLACED ON FOLKS IF YOU TALK ABOUT THE PRISON SYSTEM, LOT OF PEOPLE THINK SOMEONE IS IN PRISON, THEY MUST HAVE DONE SOMETHING TO BE THERE.

THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE CASE.

THE PRISON HAS BEEN USED AS A MEANS OF CONTROL.

HAS BEEN USED AS AN INDUSTRY.

THE UNITED STATES SPENDS $182 BILLION A YEAR ON INCARCERATING PEOPLE A YEAR.

182 BILLION.

TED: SO WITH THAT FACT AND HISTORY, YOUR CONTRIBUTION TO THE EXHIBIT, DESCRIBE IT FOR US AND THE MESSAGE YOU'RE SENDING.

>> OKAY, MY PIECE IS CALLED THE JOY OF LAND DEVELOPMENT, AND IT'S ACTUALLY ABOUT GERONIMO.

GERONIMO, A PHOTO OF GERONIMO THAT I BOUGHT EIGHT YEARS AGO, AND I WANT TO DO SOMETHING WITH THIS IMAGE, AND I LEARNED MORE ABOUT GERONIMO.

GERONIMO WAS CAPTURED CLOSE BY HERE AND SOMEWHAT OF A STAGED CAPTURE, AND GERONIMO WAS A SYMBOLIC FIGURE USED TO SIGNIFY NOW THAT LAND IS OURS, WE CAN TAKE THE REST OF ARIZONA, AND HE WAS INCARCERATED ABOUT 301 MILES AWAY FROM WHERE THE EXHIBIT IS TAKE PLACE, AND I HAVE A PHOTOGRAPH OF HIS STAGED CAPTURE, AND THE PHOTOGRAPHER WAS C.S.

FLY.

THIS PHOTO IS FROM 1886 AND SHOWS HIM IN THE SUN ON HORSEBACK, AND THERE WERE A LOT OF PHOTOS TAKEN AS HE WAS CAPTURED.

AFTER HE WAS CAPTURED, HE WAS TAKEN AROUND, AND IT WAS DISPLAYED AND THIS IS THE LAST PERSON, THE LAST NATIVE AMERICAN WE CONQUERED IN ORDER TO FULFILL OUR MISSION OF BASICALLY TAKING THIS LAND, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TALK ABOUT HOW GERONIMO WAS PORTRAYED IN MOVIES.

TALK ABOUT THE 1939 MOVIE, 1962 MOVIE PORTRAYED AS A SAVAGE, OR THE FALSE NARRATIVES, THERE IS ILLUSION TO THAT.

BUT GERONIMO'S NAME IS USED TO THE POINT IT'S DESENSITIZED WHEN.

PARATROOPERS JUMP OUT OF A PLANE, MANY OF THEM YELL GERONIMO WITHOUT KNOWING THE HISTORY.

ME AS A CHILD, I WOULD YELL GERONIMO BUT WANTED TO DELVE INTO THAT HISTORY IN THE APPROPRIATION OF GERONIMO'S NAME AND IMAGE AND HIM AS AN ICON AND A PERSON WHO REPRESENTED CONQUERED TERRITORY.

TED: IT'S INTERESTING WHEN WE GET TO THE ARTISTIC PART.

WHAT YOU JUST SAID THERE, FASCINATING STUFF AND YOU TOLD A STORY.

ART TELL ACE STORY IN A DIFFERENT WAY.

HOW DO YOU TELL THAT STORY IN A MANNER OF ARTISTIC EXPRESSION WHICH OFTEN DOESN'T NECESSARILY HIT THE TARGET, IT HITS AROUND THE TARGET AND LETS THE VIEWER OR THE PARTICIPANT, CUSTOMER, PATRON, MAKE UP THEIR OWN MIND OR SEE WHAT THEY WANT TO SEE.

>> YOU SAID EXACTLY THE RIGHT THING.

IF YOU MAKE ART, YOU DON'T WANT TO MAKE SOMETHING SO BLATANT OR DID ACTIC OR DON'T WANT TO TELL ANYONE HOW TO THINK, YOU WANT TO PRESENT THE EVIDENCE JUST LIKE ANY COURTROOM, PRESENT THE EVIDENCE AND LET THE PERSON DECIDE WHAT THIS MEANS, AND I THINK MOST EFFECTIVE ART DOES THAT.

SO I HAVE ARTIFACTS, NOT JUST A PHOTO, WORLD WAR II PARACHUTE, AND TWO PARACHUTE SQUADRONS NAMED GERONIMO AND I HAVE PATCHES FROM THE GROUPS.

I ALSO HAVE 1962 GERONIMO MOVIE POSTER, BUT THE OTHER THING, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE A FAN OF SIX FLAGS OVER GEORGIA OR THE AMUSEMENT PARKS ON THE EAST COAST.

THEY HAD THE PROMOTION CALLED THE TEXAS SHOOT-OUT AND THE PARACHUTE RIDE AND IT WOULD TAKE THIS PARACHUTE RIDE AND COME DOWN AND PAIRED THE RIDE WITH THE TERM GERONIMO.

PARATROOPERS LEARNED THAT TERM AFTER 1939 GERONIMO MOVIE.

THIS ONE GENTLEMAN JUMPING OUT OF A PLANE IN 1942 AND SAID, AND PEOPLE SAID, THIS IS YOUR FIRST JUMP, YOU'RE GOING TO BE REALLY SCARED.

WHAT SHOULD I YELL?

PEOPLE YELL THEIR OWN NAME.

WHEN HE WENT TO JUMP, INSTEAD OF YELLING HIS OWN NAME, HE YELLED GERONIMO AND IT CAUGHT ON.

TED: THAT'S FASCINATING.

>> AND THE UPPER BRASS AT THE TIME DID NOT LIKE IT.

THEY DID NOT WANT THAT TO BE USED.

BUT IT KEPT ON GOING, AND SOME REASON, ME IN SOUTH CAROLINA AS AN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL KID JUMPING FROM THE TOWER, WE GEL YELLED GERONIMO.

TED: WE HAD NO IDEA WHAT IT MEANT, BUT IT'S JUST WHAT YOU SAID.

GERONIMO WAS A PRISONER OF WAR AND INCARCERATED.

TED: WITH THAT IN MIND, AND LAST QUESTION HERE, WHAT DO YOU WANT PEOPLE TO TAKE FROM THE EXHIBIT IN GENERAL, BUT FROM YOUR PARTICIPATION IN THE EXHIBIT IN GENERAL?

>> I WANT US TO THINK ABOUT WHO WE ARE AS A PEOPLE AND HOW WE GOT HERE.

DID WE GET HERE THROUGH ALTRUISM AND KINDNESS OR BEING BARBARIC AND COLONIZED AND BRUTALITY?

THE NUMBER OF -- WHEN THE PULSE NIGHTCLUB SHOOTING HAPPENED, PEOPLE SAID THIS IS THE BIGGEST SHOOTING IN HISTORY, 50 PEOPLE DIED.

NO, IT WASN'T.

WE CAN TALK ABOUT WOUNDED KNEE, TRAIL OF TEARS, TALK ABOUT MANY INCIDENTS IN AMERICAN HISTORY WHERE NATIVE AMERICAN POPULATIONS WERE SLAUGHTERED FOR THE LAND, AND TALK ABOUT BLACK COMMUNITIES BEING SLAUGHTERED AND ALLUSION TO THE BLACK COMMUNITIES AS WELL, PIECES OF A WELL-KNOWN RIVER WHERE SLAVES ONCE CAME IN.

SO I WANT US TO THINK ABOUT HOW WE GOT HERE.

IT'S NOT A SOUL-SEARCHING ASPECT, BUT MORE OF A WHAT STORIES ARE NOT BEING TOLD TO OUR CHILDREN?

WHAT IS OUR ORIGIN STORY, OUR TRUE ORIGIN STORY?

I THINK A LOT OF THE ARTISTS ARE CHALLENGING THE NARRATIVE AND THE FALSE NARRATIVES THAT WE HOLD AS TRUTHS.

TED: WELL, WE THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US AND SHARING YOUR STORY AND ARTWORK WITH US.

PAUL RUCKER, THANK YOU, AND BEST OF LUCK, APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME, GREAT BEING HERE.

TED: UNDOING TIME, ART AND HISTORIES OF INCARCERATION AT THE ASU ART MUSEUM AND RUNS UNTIL FEBRUARY 12. .

TED: AND THAT IS IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING.