>>> COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON," IT'S A JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

WE'LL LOOK AT THE WEEK'S TOP STORIES INCLUDING YET ANOTHER ATTEMPT BY CARRY LAKE TO CHANGE THE RESULTS OF LAST YEAR'S ELECTION.

THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

>>> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

IT'S FRIDAY AND THAT MEANTIME IT'S TIME FOR THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE AND JOINING US TONIGHT FOR A LOOK AT THE WEEK'S TOP STORIES, JEREMY DUDA OF, A YOKES -- OF AXIOS PHOENIX, HOWIE FISCHER OF CAPITOL MEDIA SERVICE.

AND CAMRYN SANCHEZ OF ARIZONA CAPITOL HILL TIMES.

-- CAPITOL TIMES.

LET'S TALK ABOUT THIS TWO-DAY TRIAL.

IT'S GOING TO WERE UP MONDAY, HOPEFULLY.

WHAT'S IT ABOUT, WHO'S INVOLVED, BESIDES KARI LAKE.

>> THE BROADER LEVEL IS LAKE ALL OF YOU LAWSUITS THAT WE'VE BEEN -- WE WILL NEVER STOP TALKING ABOUT HERE IS ABOUT HER REFUSAL TO ACCEPT HER DEFEAT IN LAST YEAR'S ELECTION.

SHE WANTS TO GET $1.

-- 1.3 MILLION BALLOT ENVELOPES TO EXAMINE THE SIGNATURES, TO DETERMINE TO AID HER OTHER LAWSUITS TO DETERMINE WHERE THE SIGNATURES FORGED, WERE THESE RELLY -- REALLY THE CORRECT VOTERS WHO SIGNED THEM AND THERE'S AN ISSUE WHETHER THAT'S PUBLIC RECORDS.

AND HER ATTORNEY PUT IN A RECORDS REQUEST EARLIER IN THE YEAR I BELIEVE WHEN ONE OF THE NUMBER OF LAWSUITS WAS GOING TO TRIAL.

THE COUNTY REJECTED, SAID THESE ARE NOT PUBLIC RECORD.

THERE ARE EXEMPTIONS IN THE LAW FOR VOTER SIGNATURES, THOSE KIND OF THINGS IN THE VOTER RECORDS.

THERE'S BROADER EXEMPTION FOR BEST INTEREST OF THE STATES.

REFUSAL TO RELEASE RECORDS, SO THEY'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT IF THESE QUALIFY OF PUBLIC RECORDS.

>> WHAT'S INTERESTING ABOUT THE DEBATE IS THAT BRIAN BLEM WHO IS LAKE'S LAWYER, HER LAWYER FOR ALL THESE ILLNATED EFFORTS, HERE'S WHY THEY NEED THEM.

THEY WANTED TO BRING IN PEOPLE FROM WE THE PEOPLE, WHO WERE ASSOCIATED WITH THE AUDIT, QUOTE/UNQUOTE, AFTER THE 2020 ELECTION.

SO THAT THEY COULD GO AHEAD AND REVIEW THE SIGNATURES.

AND THE JUDGE SAID, NO!

THIS IS NOT ABOUT WHY YOU WANT THE SIGNATURES.

THIS IS ABOUT A SIMPLE QUESTION.

ARE THESE VOTER SIGNATURES, THE BALLOT ENVELOPES WITH THE SIGNATURES, AND YOUR PHONE NUMBER ON IT, AND THE DATE, ARE THESE PUBLIC RECORDS.

NOW, THERE'S A SECTION OF THE STATE LAW, ELECTION CODE THAT SAYS PARTS OF THE VOTER FILE ARE NOT PUBLIC.

NOW, THERE'S A QUESTION OF IS THIS PART OF THE VOTER FILE.

THAT GETS TO THE OTHER POINT THAT JEREMY WAS MAKING.

THERE'S ANOTHER BROAD EXEMPTION WHICH WERE ALWAYS HATE AS JOURNALISTS, BUT SAYS IT CAN BE WITHHELD IF -- IF IT'S NOT IN THE BEST EFFORT OF THE THE TOWN RELEASE IT.

DAVID RICHARD SAYS HE'S AFRAID IF THESE ARE RELEASED IT WILL LEAD TO VOTER FRAUD, THAT PEOPLE WON'T WANT THIS STUFF DISCLOSED, THEY WON'T VOTE EARLY AND MAYBE NOT AT ALL.

>> IT WAS INTERESTING BECAUSE IT SEEMS AS THOUGH AS ALWAYS, KARI LAKE AND HER ATTORNEY, THEY KEEP TRYING TO PUSH STUFF ON TO THE CASE AND THE JUDGES KEEP SAYING THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE.

>> YEAH.

WHICH IS A LITTLE AWKWARD.

I THINK IT WAS KIND OF THE BUTT OF A LOT OF JOKING AROUND, WHICH IS NOT WHAT YOU WANT, ESPECIALLY IF YOU'RE THE ATTORNEY ON THAT CASE.

I ASSUME HE'S GETTING PAID A LOT.

BUT YEAH, IT WAS SORT OF THEM TRYING TO PUT FORD EVIDENCE AND PRODUCE WITNESSES AND THE JUDGE WAS SAYING, NO, NO, NO, THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE.

AND IT WAS SORT OF UNCOMFORTABLE FOR THEM.

AND I MEAN, AGAIN, IT'S A VERY SPECIFIC QUESTION IN THIS CASE.

IT'S NOT THE JUDGE WHETHER SHE WON THE ELECTION.

IT'S WHETHER THESE ARE PUBLIC RECORDS.

>> HIGH SCHOOL THE PART -- >> ONE OF THE JUDGE SAID SHE'S OBVIOUSLY NOT QUALIFIED.

SHE'S NOT EVEN IN THE BALLPARK.

>> THIS IS THE PERSON CONNECTED TO THE FRAUD.

LOOK, SHE'S BASICALLY A BOOKKEEPER AT A FIRM.

BUT HERE'S THE OTHER PIECE.

LET'S ASSUME FOR ARGUMENT SAKE SHE GETS THESE.

AND LET'S SEEN EVEN ASSUME THAT SHE SHOWS OUT OF 1.6 MILLION EARLY BALLOTS THAT 160,000, THE SIGNATURES DIDN'T MATCH.

AT LEAST WE DON'T BELIEVE THEY MATCHED.

DOESN'T DO HER ANY GOOD IN TERMS OF THE 2022 ELECTION.

SHE NEVER CHALLENGED INDIVIDUAL SIGNATURES.

SHE SIMPLY SAID, YOU CAN'T DO IT WITHIN THREE OR TWO SECONDS.

NUMBER TWO, THAT PART OF THE CASE IS OVER.

YOU CAN'T INTRODUCE NEW INFORMATION AT THE COURT OF APPEALS.

>> AND LET'S MOVE -- LET'S TRY TO LEAPFROG.

LET'S SAY SHE WINS THIS CASE.

THESE ARE PUBLIC RECORDS.

GO AT IT.

GO CHECK THESE SIGNATURES.

DO YOUR VAR -- HOW LONG WOULD THAT TAKE?

WHAT KIND OF PROCESS WOULD BE INVOLVED?

>> I MEAN, I'M SURE SHE COULD FIND HERSELF PLENTY OF VOLUNTEERS TO GO OVER THESE SIGNATURES AND WHATEVER MONEY SHE'S USING TO PAY FOR HER ATTORNEYS AND TRIPS TO MARCHING AND WHATEVER -- MAR-A-LARGO, SHE PROBABLY HIRE A LOT OF FOLKS.

THE COUNTY HIRES A TON OF PEOPLE.

THINK HOW LONG IT TOOK US TO FINISH GETTING THE RESULTS.

THIS IS AFTER TWO WEEKS OF COUNTY ELECTION OFFICIALS AND ELECTION WORKERS GOING OVER THESE SIGNATURES.

YOU HAVE TO CALL PEOPLE IF THEY DON'T MATCH.

JUST BECAUSE THE SIGNATURE DOESN'T MATCH, YOU DON'T THINK IT MATCHES, DOESN'T MEAN IT WAS SIGNED.

THEY HAVE TO DO A CURING.

IF IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THE SIGNATURE MATCHES, YOU CAME THATERT VO.

YOU EMAIL THE VOTER, YOU TEXT MESSAGE THAT VOTER, YOU FIND OUT DID YOU REALLY SIGN IT BECAUSE SIGNATURES CHANGE OVER TIME AND SOME OF THESE RECORDS AND THERE'S OTHER LAWSUITS OVER -- YOU KNOW, EXACTLY WHAT RECORD YOU CAN USE.

BUT THE SIGNATURE THAT ARE USED TO MATCH, SOME OF THESE ARE 10, 20 YEARS OLD.

>> AND THAT'S CRUCIAL BECAUSE WE HAD THIS RULING FROM THE JUDGE IN YAVAPAI COUNTY WHO SAID YOU'RE ONLY ALLOWED TO COMPARE THEM TO YOUR ORIGINAL RECORDS, WHICH MAY BE WHEN YOU WERE 18.

I'M 73.

I GOT NEWS.

MY SIGNATURE DOESN'T LOOK THE SAME AS IT DID.

AND NOW YOU'RE DOWN TO IF YOU BELIEVE WHAT STEVEN RICHARDS SAYS, YOU SEND IN AN REQUEST FOR AN EARLY BALLOT, ONE OF THESE 90-DAY CARDS SAYING YOU WANT SOMETHING.

CAN WE USE THOSE.

WE'RE NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT COMPARING THE SIGNATURE ON THE ENVELOPE WITH THE SIGNATURE IN THE VOTER REGISTRATION RECORD BECAUSE THERE MAY BE OTHERS.

>> AND THAT WOULD BE IN THE CASE THAT SHE WINS.

IF SHE LOSESS THIS GO ROUND, IS THAT IT?

[LAUGHTER] >> I WOULD NEVER SAY THAT IT WOULD BE THE END OF THIS BECAUSE THIS NEVER ENDS!

AND WE ALWAYS TALK ABOUT IT.

AND IT'S LIKE THAT CAT THAT COMES BACK THE NEXT DAY AND SHE'S GOT OTHER, YOU KNOW, IRONS IN THE FIRE.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY, LET'S GO THE OTHER IRONS IN THE FIRE.

POLITICO CAME OUT WITH A STORY, CNN JUMPED ON THIS.

IT'S COMMON KNOWLEDGE AROUND HERE.

SHE HAS A SPECIFIC INTEREST IN THE U.S. SENATE RACE.

AND CAMRYN, SOUNDS LIKE SHE'S GOING TO GO AHEAD BY ALL ACCOUNTS, GOING TO ANNOUNCE SOMETIME NEXT MONTH.

>> I BELIEVE THE ARTICLE IS SHE'S GOING TO ANNOUNCE.

SO SHE HASN'T ANNOUNCED YET.

WE DON'T KNOW THAT SHE'S INTERESTED.

BUT SOUNDS LIKE SHE'S INTERESTED AND THAT'S ONE OF A FEW ARTICLES THAT'S RUN OVER THE PAST FEW MONTHS.

>> YEAH.

>> FROM OTHER PUBLICATIONS.

>> IF SHE RUNS, IF SHE RUNS, IF SHE GOES AND DOES THIS, WHAT HAPPENS ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE?

WILL SOMEONE ELSE JUMP IN?

DOES MARK LAMB STAY IN?

DOES BLAKE MASTERS SAY, HERE'S MY SHOT.

WHAT, WHAT?

>> I THINK SHE'S KIND OF FREEZING OUT A LOT OF THE FIELD RIGHT NOW.

AND YOU KNOW, WE'VE SEEN THIS HAPPEN -- MY COLLEAGUES AT AXIOS REPORTED THIS LAST MONTH THAT SHE'S LOOKING TO JUMP IN OCTOBER.

AND WE'VE SEEN BLAKE MASTERS SITTING ON THE SIDELINES, WAITING TO SEE WHAT SHE DOES.

I THINK THERE'S A SENTIMENT THAT ONE OF THE REASONS HE STARTED FLOATING HIS POTENTIAL PLANS OUT THERE WAS TO TRY AND FORCE LAKE'S HAND.

IF YOUR FREEZING HER OUT BUT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO MAKE A DECISION, THEN NOBODY ELSE -- MARK LAMB ISN'T GETTING TRACTION.

KARI LAKE IS LIVING IT UP DOING EVERYTHING EXCEPT FOR RUNNING FOR SENATE.

DOES NOT SEEM THAT'S HIGH ON HER PRIORITY LIST.

SHE'S IN IOWA FOR YOU KNOW, THE SURROGATE FOR FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP.

SHE'S GOING TO CALIFORNIA BE TO A SURROGATE FOR THE DEBATE.

SHE'S AT MARVEL ALL THE TIME.

SHE'S -- MAR-A-LARGO ALL THE TIME.

SHE'S GOING EVERYWHERE EXCEPT FOR THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL HERE IN ARIZONA.

>> WHICH GETS TO THE OTHER PIECE, WHICH IS ARIZONA HAS A RE-SIGN -- RESIGN TO RUN LAW.

IT SAYS YOU CANNOT EXPECT THE LAST YEAR OF YOUR TERM, ANNOUNCE FOR ANOTHER OFFICE.

IF YOU AROUNDNOUNCE YOUR RUNNING FOR SENATE, MY BELIEF, AND I'M NO ATTORNEY ALTHOUGH I PLAY ONE HERE ON THE SET, IS YOU HAVE NOW DISQUALIFIED YERT FROM BEING GOVERNOR.

SO -- YOURSELF FROM BEING GOVERNOR.

IF SHE'S ANNOUNCED FOR SENATE, AND LET'S ASSUME THAT SOME JUDGE WOULD SAY, YES, YOU ARE THE GOVERNOR, 2340E7, YOU'RE NOT THE GOVERNOR BECAUSE YOU'VE ANNOUNCED FOR ANOTHER OFFICE.

>> THAT'S ALWAYS THE QUESTION.

SHE SAYS SHE'S GOVERNOR.

CAN YOU RUN AS GOVERNOR?

AGAIN -- WHILE SHE'S STILL CHALLENGING -- >> WHILE SHE'S STILL CHALLENGING THE OTHER RULINGS, AND I BELIEVE SHE APPEALED SOMETHING HER LAST COURT LOSS TO THE COURT OF APPEALS, AND THEN -- IF SHE WAS THAT, IT GOES TO THE SUPREME COURT.

IN THE MEANTIME, SHE'S ALSO ANGLING ACCORDING TO SOME REPORTS TO POTENTIALLY BE TRUMP'S RAINING MATE IF SHE GETS -- RUNNING MATE IF HE GETS THE -- YOU CAN'T BE ON THE BALLOT FOR BOTH THINGS.

BUT BUT YOU WAIT LONG ENOUGH, YOU KNOW, FOR DONALD TRUMP TO MAKE THAT DECISION UNTIL HE HAS THE NOMINATION TO DECIDE THE SENATE RACE.

YOU HAVE TO DECIDE -- APRIL IS WHEN THE FILING DEAD LINE IS?

THERE'S A LOT OF BALLS IN THE AIR AND SHE'S GOING TO HAVE TO PICK ONE TO HOLD.

>> IF SHE DOES ANNOUNCE SHE'S RUNNING FOR SENATE, HUTCH OF NATIONAL MONEY, HOW MUCH OF THE MICK MULVANEY MONEY, THE DOUG DUCEY, IS THAT GOING TO POUR IN, TRICKLE IN, OR BE M.I.A.?

>> LAST YEAR SHE PUT ON A PRETTY GOOD CAMPAIGN.

I EXPECT SHE WOULD HAVE SOME MONEY.

AND IF IT IS GOING TO STOP OTHER CANDIDATES ARE RUNNING, THEN THE TEMPERATURES COULD FOCUS ALL THEIR -- REPUBLICANS COULD FOCUS ALL THEIR ENERGY ON HER OR A SECTOR FOR THE PRIMARY.

>> WHAT HAPPENS IS YOU TALKING ABOUT DOUG DUCEY WHO IS DOING A FUND-RAISER FOUR CHRIS CHRISTIE, THE BUSINESS-TYPE MODERATE REPUBLICAN.

THE REPUBLICANS ARE DOING THIS TO SEE WHAT CAN WE SPEND OUR MONEY ON.

IF THEY SEE THIS THREE-WAY RACE, ASSUMING SINEMA STAYS IN, AS A LOSER, THAT NO MATTER WHAT, THAT LAKE OR WHOEVER THE NOMINEE IS IS GOING TO LOSE, WHETHER IT'S TO GALLEGO OR SINEMA, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO PUT A LOT OF MONEY INTO IT.

SHE DOES THIS SHOULD -- HAVE SHOULD NETWORK OF PEOPLE QHOAR SAVE OUR STATE KIND OF THING AND LORD KNOWS SHE'LL GET A LOT OF SMALL DONATIONS.

BUT THE KIND OF MONEY YOU NEED, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A 50, $60 MILLION SENATE RACE.

THAT'S A LOT.

>> THE POSSIBLE THREE-WAY RACE, AND SINEMA HAS NOT ANNOUNCED.

ONE CAN'T HELP BUT WONDER IF SHE'S WAITING TO SEE WHAT KARI LAKE DOES BECAUSE IF SHE GETS INTO THIS RACE, SHE ALMOST CERTAINLY WILL BE, IS EASY TO SEE A LOT OF CENTER-RIGHT VOTERS DEFECTING AND THEY MAY NOT WANT TO VOTE FOR A REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN, BUT SINEMA IS AN INDEPENDENT AND HAS A LOT OF CROSSOVER VOTES AND WE SAW CENTER RIGHT REPORTER VOTERS DEFECT LAST YEAR.

>> YOU'RE TALKING REALMAN THERE.

WAS A STUDY THIS IMMEDIATE,, AD IMPACT, AND THEY SAID IN ARIZONA, PRESIDENTIAL INCENTIVE, REPLY, AND THE BOSSER ISSUES, WE'RE TALKING -- ABORTION ISSUE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 820 MILLION DOLLARS TO BE SPENT THIS CYCLE.

THAT'S SECOND ONLY TO CALIFORNIA BUT IT'S MORE THAN CALIFORNIA WHEN YOU CONSIDER THE FACT IT'S EXPENSIVE TO BUY AD TIME IN CALIFORNIA.

WE'RE RELATIVELY CHEAP HERE IN PHOENIX AND TUCSON.

THEREFORE 820 MILLION, GOOD LUCK SEEING ANYTHING ELSE ON THE AIRWAYS BETWEEN NOW AND NOVEMBER OF 2024.

>> SO HANDICAP THE RACE.

LET'S SAY THEY'RE IN.

WE SAW SOME POLLING THIS WEEK THAT SHOWS THAT RUBEN GALLEGO WOULD WIN HEAD TO HEAD AGAINST LAKE AND CINEMA AND WOULD WIN IN A THREE-WAY RACE.

>> I THINK THAT'S VERY POSITION.

I THINK -- POSSIBLE.

CINEMA SEEMS LIKE -- THEY SEEMS -- SHE SEEMS INTERESTED.

SHE'S WAITING TO SEE IF KARI LAKE JUMPS INTO THE RACE.

BUT GALLEGO CAN CATCH THEM, THE INDEPENDENTS AND THE REPUBLICANS FIGHT AMONGST EACH OTHER AND HOPE TO JUST TAKE ALL THE DEMOCRAT VOTES AND WIN OFF OF THAT.

EVEN IF HE DOESN'T PICK UP THAT MANY INDEPENDENTS.

>> THE OTHER PIECE IS WHAT ELSE IS ON THE BALLOT?

WE MENTIONED THE ABORTION ISSUE.

>> RIGHT.

>> THIS IS GOING TO BRING IN ANOTHER 40, $50 MILLION.

IT WILL BE A GET OUT THE VOTE FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE.

>> FOR DEMOCRATS ESPECIALLY.

>> A LOT OF VOTERS WHO MIGHT NOT NORMALLY GO TO THE POLLS.

>> THEY'RE GOING TO SAY, AS LONG AS I'M HERE, VOTING TO PUT ABORTION INTO THE ARIZONA CONSTITUTION, I'M CERTAINLY NOT GOING TO SUPPORT LAKE.

SINEMA HAS BEEN ALL OVER THE BOARD AND ALL THE ISSUES.

LIKE MINIMUM WAGE AND ALL THE REST OF IT.

SO THAT LEAVES REUBEN.

>> SINEMA HAS TO MAKE FRIENDS AGAIN.

OPEN PRIMARY INITIATIVE LAUNCHED THIS WEEK.

TALK TO US ABOUT THE INITIATIVE, WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT, WHAT KIND OF SIGNATURES THEY NEED, AND IF THEY'RE GOING TO GET THEM.

>> WE'VE BEEN WAITING TO TALK ABOUT THIS FOR A LONG TIME.

WHAT THIS WOULD DO IS BASICALLY UP END OUR PRIMARY ELECTION, BOTH -- ALL OF OUR ELECTION SYSTEM AS WE KNOW IT.

INSTEAD OF PARTISAN PRIMARIES WHERE THE DEMOCRATS ELECT A NOMINEE AND THE REGIONS, EVERYONE RUNS ON THE SAME BALLOT AND FROM THERE THINGS ARE KIND OF UP IN THE AIR.

IT'S UP TO THE LEGISLATURE AND IF THEY DON'T DECIDE, IT'S UP TO THE SECRETARY OF STATE TO DECIDE HOW MANY CANDIDATES GET OUT OF THE PRIMARY.

IF IT'S TWO, YOU GET UNDER TO WITH TWO DEMOCRATS OR REPUBLICANS.

IF IT'S MORE THAN TWO YOU HAVE TO USE RANKED CHOICE VOTING WHERE VOTERS RANK IN TERMS OF THEIR PREFERENCE.

IF NO ONE GETS AT LEAST 50%.

THE LOWEST GET DROPPED OFF.

AND YOU KEEP REPEATING THAT.

>> DOES JEREMY EXPLAIN JUST MAKES SENSE?

>> IT MAKES SENSE TO ME.

>> CRITICS ARE SAYING IT'S TOO CONFUSING TO VOTERS.

>> I DON'T THINK IT'S THAT HORRIBLY CONFUSING BECAUSE I MEAN, MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE WE HAVE TO LIKE TALK ABOUT IT AND WRITE ABOUT IT ALL THE TIME.

BUT THERE ARE LIKE CITIES WHO USE RANKED VOTING.

OTHER PLACES THAT USE RANKED CHOICE VOTING AND I THINK IF PEOPLE ARE EDUCATED FROM THE GET-GO, IT WOULDN'T BE, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT DRIVES PEOPLE AWAY.

BUT THE OPPOSITION TO THIS IS SAYING IN PART THAT THEIR OPPOSITION STEPS FROM THE THINK THAT THEY THINK VOTERS ARE NOT GOING TO GET AND IT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO VOTE.

>> THERE'S NO REASON THAT THIS GROUP, SARAH SMALLHOUSE WHO HAS SOME MONEY AND -- A FOUNDATION, COULD NOT HAVE SAID, LOOK, LET'S DO THE OPEN PRIMARY.

AND LET'S ASSUME IT'S TWO DEMOCRATS OR AN INDEPENDENT AND A GREEN PARTY PERSON.

FINE.

BY VIRTUE OF BEING AN OPEN PRIMARY, YOU HAVE FOUND THE MORE MODERATE CANDIDATES, NOT THE EXTREMES, AND LET THEM FIGHT IT OUT IN NOVEMBER.

THE WHOLE IDEA OF RANKED CHOICE VOTING IS I UNDERSTAND WHY.

BUT IT SEEMS TO ME TO BE -- ONE THING I FOUND OUT OVER THE YEARS IS IF PEOPLE ARE CONFUSED ABOUT A BALLOT MEASURE, THEY VOTE NO AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

>> I THINK THAT'S PART OF WHY THEY LEFT THE OPTION THERE OF HAVING TWO TO FIVE VOTERS.

THERE ARE FOLKS WHO WILL SAY IT'S TOO COMPLICATED.

NOW YOU SAY IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE RANKED CHOICE VOTING.

WE COULD JUST HAVE THE TWO CANDIDATES.

BUT YOU HAVE THE OPTION OF TWO DEMOCRATS, TWO REPUBLICANS.

ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO WE HAD A MEASURE LIKE THAT ON THE BALLOT, OPEN PRIMARIES, WHERE JUST THE TOP TWO CADS REGARDLESS OF PARTY WENT TO THE GENERAL ELECTION AND THAT GOT STOMPED AT THE BALLOT.

>> I THINK THE EXPLANATION PART IS A HUGE HURTLE.

ARIZONA FOR ABORTION ACCESSES, THAT WOULD CODIFY ROE V. WADE BUT THAT TAKES MOW EXPLAIN.

YOU TELL PEOPLE WE'RE GOING TO -- NO EXPLAIN.

YOU TELL PEOPLE WE'RE GOING TO -- PEOPLE KNOW WHAT ABORTION S. -- EVEN IF THEY LIKE THE THE CONCEPT OF IT BECAUSE IT TAKES MORE TIME.

>> I GET YOU.

BUT WOULD -- IT SEEMS RELATIVELY EASY TO SAY, THIS HELPS UNAFFILIATED INDEPENDENT VOTERS.

THEY'RE NUMBER ONE RIGHT NOW.

THERE ARE A LOT OF THOSE FOLKS OUT THERE.

THAT WOULD BE A VERY SHORT HURTLE TO GET OVER.

>> MAYBE -- HURDLE TO GET OVER.

>> BUT INDEPENDENT VOTERS ARE INDEPENDENT FOR DIFFERENT REASONS AS THEY ALWAYS SAY.

>> YOU COULD HAVE SOLVED THAT PROBLEM BY JUST A ALLOWING THEM INTO INTO THE OPEN PRIMARY.

THIS WHOLE THING WITH THE GENERAL ELECTION, WE'LL LEAVE IT TO THE LEGISLATURE.

NOW, LET ME TELL YOU, SOMEBODY HAS COVERED THAT PLACE.

THANK YOU, NO.

I WAS GOING TO ASK ABOUT THAT.

THAT SEEMS LIKE A WILDCARD.

>> THAT IS.

IF THEY DON'T DECIDE IT'S UP TO THE SECRETARY OF STATE, WELL, THAT'S GOING TO ANNOY A FEW REPUBLICANS.

NO.

IT COULD HAVE BEEN SIMPLE.

BUT SOMEHOW THEY'VE DECIDED, OH, THIS IS ISN'T IDEAL.

IDEALS TEND TO FAIL.

SYSTEMS YOU GOT TO GO FOR YOUR SMALLER VICTORIES.

>> DOES IT HAVE A CHANCE?

A A GOT OF CHANCE?

>> WE'VE HAD THINGS LIKE THIS PASS IN OTHER STATES.

THERE ARE CITIES AND STATES, ALASKA, MAINE, PROBABLY SMALLER LOCALITIES AND I THINK WHERE THEY HAVE IT, FOLKS TEND TO LIKE IT.

IT'S JUST A MATTER OF CAN YOU EXPLAIN IT TO VOTERS AND WHAT IS -- WHAT'S THE ELEVATOR PITCH, THE TALKING POINT.

MY GUESS IS THEY'LL SAY LEVELS THE PRAYING -- PLAYING FIELD FOR INDEPENDENTS.

REQUIRES THE SAME SIGNATURES FOR DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS AND IT MAKES IT FAIRER FOR THE PLURALITY OF REGISTERED VOTERS.

>> MAKING IT FAIR WOULD SEEM THE BOTTOM LINE.

HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SCHOOL VOUCHERS.

THEY MEET FOR THE FIRST TIME.

THAT WAS -- THIS WAS PART OF THE DEAL -- WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?

>> I'M ACTUALLY MOST INTERESTED IN WHO WASN'T THERE AND WHAT WASN'T TALKED ABOUT, BECAUSE THEY CREATED THIS NEW COMMITTEE TO TALK ABOUT EMPOWERMENT SCHOLARSHIP ACCOUNTS.

AND THIS FIRST MEETING WAS A PRESENTATION BASICALLY FROM THIS GUY WHO'S AN EXPERT ON ECONOMICS.

BUT HE WAS SAYING HE DIDN'T HAVE A LOT OF DATA TO GO OFF, SO IT WASN'T SUPER CONCLUSIVE.

AND THE ONLY LAWMAKERS WERE HOUSE PEOPLE.

SENATE DIDN'T COME.

AND HOBBS DIDN'T COME, ALTHOUGH SHE WAS INVITED AND HAD A SEAT AT THE TABLE, SHE WANTED TO SEND A SENATOR IN HER HOUSE BUT THE HOUSE SPEAKER SAID NO.

SO THERE WEREN'T THAT MANY PEOPLE FROM THE THREE BRANCHES REPRESENTED.

>> WHAT WAS THE -- WHAT HAPPENED?

>> THIS WAS A BIT OF SHOW AND TELL.

WHEN THEY REFUSED TO RESCIND THE UNIVERSAL VOUCHERS, TO PUT -- TO PUT A CAP TO -- ON THEM, THE SPEAKER SAID WE'LL PUT A COMMITTEE TOGETHER, SEE?

WE'RE STAYING ON TOP OF IT.

THIS IS PUBLICITY.

THIS IS SIMPLE P.R.

THIS IS SHOW AND TELL.

McGUIRE CAME IN AND SAID WE GOT MAYBE 60,000 KIDS TO SWITCH -- WHO HAVE BEEN FUNDED FROM THEIR PARENTS.

THEY'RE GOING TO SWITCH.

WE DON'T KNOW HOW MANY MORE THERE ARE.

WE DON'T THINK IT WILL BE A BUDGET BUSTER.

BUT WE DON'T KNOW.

AND AGAIN, BUT THIS IS ALL SHOW AND TELL.

THIS IS KABUKI THEATER HERE.

>> THIS IS SUPPOSED TO HELP CLARIFY VOUCHERS AND ESAs.

IS ANYTHING CLARIFIED HERE?

>> ONE THING THAT'S CLEAR IS THERE'S A LOT WE DON'T KNOW.

WE'VE KNOWN THIS FOR A LONG TIME, THAT WE DON'T KNOW A LOT.

WHO ARE THESE STUDENTS, WHERE ARE THEY COMING FROM.

ARE THEY ACTUALLY GOING TO PUBLIC SCHOOLS IN THE FIRST PLACE?

IS IT JUST A BUNCH OF RICH PARENTS WHO ARE GOING TO SEND THEIR KIDS TO PROFILE SCHOOLS ANYWAY AND NOW THEY GET $7500 FROM THE GOVERNMENT TO DO IT?

HOW MANY STUDENTS ARE THERE IN PRIVATE SCHOOLS IN THE FIRST PLACE WHO MIGHT STILL DO THIS NOW?

WHAT WE LEARNED IS THAT THERE'S JUST A LOT OF INFORMATION THAT PEOPLE DON'T KNOW.

AND WE HAD FOLKS, DEMOCRATIC LAWMAKERS, MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC ITICS OF THE ES -- CRITICS OF THE ESA PROGRAM.

IF THIS IS GOING TO BE MORE THAN KABUKI THEATER, ARE THERE GOING TO BE ACTUAL CHANGES TO ADDRESS THE ISSUES THAT GET RAISED, LIKE ALAN McGUIRE BROUGHT UP THIS WEEK IN TERMS OF THIS LACK OF INFORMATION IN AND LOT LOT OF AS PECTS OF THE PROGRAM.

>> DO WE KNOW -- ASPECTS OF THE PROGRAM.

>> DO WE KNOW WHEN THEY'LL MEET AGAIN?

>> I THINK THE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT IS GOING TO MEET AGAIN.

>> NOT THAT HE HAS A BIAS.

>> HOPEFULLY THEY'LL HAVE SOME INFORMATION THAT THE REST OF US DON'T.

I'M POSSIBLY OPTIMISTIC.

>> WELL, THAT'S GOOD!

>> I AM.

>> CONGRATULATIONS TO YOU!

THAT'S FANTASTIC.

WE'LL STICK WITH YOU, THEN, MS.

OPTIMISM HERE.

T.J. SCHOAP?

HE WANTS TO IS INVESTIGATE THE GOVERNOR OVER HER SECURITY GUARD?

TALK TO US, PLEASE.

>> SO, I'LL GO BACK.

HOBBS HAD THE SECURITY GUARD.

AND THEN SHE HIRED HIM WHEN SHE WAS GOVERNOR FOR THIS -- CUSHY POSITION WHERE HE'S MAKING SIX FIGURES.

RUNNING SOME -- >> A GOVERNOR'S OFFICE OF HIGHWAY SAFETY.

>> SURE.

>> SURE.

>> SURE.

SO HE TWEETED ABOUT IT AND THIS IS WRONG.

SHE SHOULD HAVE DISCLOSED THIS IN A CERTAIN WAY AND THIS WAS A SHADY WAY TO DO IT.

SHE WAS HANDING HER FRIEND A POSITION.

WE SHOULD TALK ABOUT THIS.

AND THE REPUBLICAN WROTE A STORY, SOMETHING LIKE SHOPPE IS GOING TO INVESTIGATE IT AND I SAID ARE YOU GOING TO INVESTIGATE IT.

AND HE'S LIKE, I'M ON VACATION.

I'M NOT DOING ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

AND I WAS LIKE, OKAY.

SO I'M NOT CONVINCED THAT HE'S LAUNCHING SOME SORT OF INVESTIGATION INTO THIS.

>> NO.

I THINK THE REAL ISSUE IS THIS GOVERNOR HAS PLAYED FAST AND LOOSE WITH DISCLOSURE LAWS.

SHE SAID, WELL, HE WAS -- PROANGT, ME -- PROTECTING ME WHILE I WAS SECRETARY OF STATE AND THE MONEY CAME THROUGH -- INDIRECTLY THROUGH THE ASSOCIATE SECRETARY'S ESTATE.

IF IT WAS CAMPAIGN MONEY, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE DISCLOSED THERE.

IF IT WAS A DIRECT GIFT, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE DISCLOSED THERE.

SHE'S SAYING, WELL, IT WAS TO ME IN MY OFFICIAL ROLE, EVEN THOUGH HE WAS ALSO PROTECTING ME ON THE CAMPAIGN.

THIS GOES BACK TO WHAT HAPPENED DURING DURING THE WHOLE INAUGURAL.

ANOTHER GAME OF HIDE AND SEEK.

WHY ABOUT APS PUT $250,000 IN AN INAUGURAL THAT ONLY CLOSE 227,000 AND WE HAD TO FIGHT FOR DISCLOSURE.

>> THESE IN-KIND CONTRIBUTIONS.

SHE DID THIS AS WHAT SHE THOUGHT WAS NOT CAMPAIGN.

BUT WHEN HE BECOMES PART OF A CAMPAIGN, EVEN FOR 10 MINUTES, DOESN'T THAT HAVE TO BE REPORTED?

>> YOU'D THINK SO THIS.

SEEMS LIKE IT'S A VERY INTERESTING GRAY AREA IN CAMPAIGN FINANCE LAW.

IF THE CAMPAIGN PAID FOR IT, IT HAS TO BE DISCLOSED.

IF THE SECRETARY OF STATE OFFICE, SHE SAID THIS IS BECAUSE OF HER DUTIES AS SECRETARY OF STATE, THEN THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE ADDITION CLOSED.

BUT THIS IS A DEMOCRATIC DARK MONEY GROUP TIED TO THE SECRETARY OF STATES' ASSOCIATION WHICH IS PAY FOR THIS.

HER OFFICE WASN'T PAYING FOR THIS, IF THIS WAS HER OFFICIAL DUTIES, I DON'T KNOW.

BUT THIS GROUP THAT DOESN'T DISCLOSE ITS OWN DODGERS, -- DONORS, IENLD COULD -- IT'S KIND OF GOVERNMENT RELATED.

IT WOULD BE -- MAYBE WE'LL GET A RESOLUTION TO WHETHER THIS IS SOMETHING THAT HAS TO BE DISCLOSED.

>> THIS IS TRICKY.

THE PRESIDENT GETS 24-HOUR HOUR JETS PROTECTION.

WHEN HE COMES -- GETS PROTECTION.

THE GOVERNOR GETS PROTECTION FROM DEPOSITS.

IT GOES -- DPS.

IT GOES WITH THE JOB.

SO IT IS HARD TO SEPARATE OUT WHAT'S OFFICIAL AND WHAT'S NOT.

BUT WHEN IN DOUBT, DISCLOSE.

REMEMBER, THIS IS THE GOVERNOR WHO PROMISED THAT THE MOST TRANSPARENT ADMINISTRATION IN ARIZONA HISTORY.

I'M STILL LOOKING THROUGH WAX PAPER ON THIS.

>> A LITTLE TONE DEAF HERE?

A LITTLE -- >> I THINK WE HAVEN'T HEARD THE THE END OF IT.

I DON'T KNOW WHO'S INVESTIGATING IT BESIDES US.

BESIDES US JOURNALISTS.

AND I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE ANY EFFORT FROM THE LEGISLATURE.

BUT I WOULD LIKE TO FIND OUT AND WE LIKE SUNLIGHT.

>> SURE.

THE FUNNY PART IS NONE OF THIS WOULD HAVE HAVE HAPPENED IF SHE HADN'T APPOINTED HIM TO A CUSHY SIX-FIGURES JOB WITH A SMALL GOVERNMENT AGENCY.

>> THE LAST FEW MINUTES, PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN WILL BE IN TOWN NEXT WEEK.

ONE BY ONE HERE, IS THAT GOING TO MAKE AN IMPACT OF -- AS FAR AS -- WHEN KE SEE WHO EMBRACES HIM, WHO DOESN'T EMBRACE HIM, DOES THAT MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN ANYTHING?

ANY CAMPAIGNS THAT WE'VE EVEN TALKED ABOUT OR IS THIS JUST THE PRESIDENT SHOWING UP?

>> I MEAN, I THINK THE BIDEN CAMPAIGN MIGHT TAKE AN OPPORTUNITY.

ARIZONA IS A SWING STATE.

HE SHOULD BE SHOWING HIS FACE HERE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE AND I'M SURE THAT OTHER BIG CANDIDATES WILL.

SO I'M SURE HE'LL BE MAKING SOME SORT OF SPEECH.

>> AGAIN, TYING HIMSELF TO THE LEGACY OF JOHN McCAIN, THIS AFFECTED REPUBLICANS.

PEOPLE WHO WILL FIND DONALD TRUMP TO BE UNACCEPTABLE.

PEOPLE MIGHT FIND KARI LAKE ASSUMING SHE'S ON THE BALLOT TO BE UNACCEPTABLE.

TO TELL THESE PEOPLE, IF IT COMES DOWN TO A CHOICE OF THEM OR ME OR MY DEMOCRATIC ALLIES, PLEASE, LOOK AT THE FACT THAT YOU KNOW, I AM NOT AS CRAZY ON MY SIDE AS THEY ARE ON THEIR SIDE.

>> WHICH ALSO BRINGS TO MIND GOVERNOR DUCEY AND OTHER REPUBLICAN HEAVY WEIGHTS PUSHING FOR CHRIS CHRISTIE AND DOGGONE HARD.

>> SURE.

THE INTEREST.

I CAN'T IMAGINE ANYONE HERE THINKS CHRIS CHRISTIE HAS A REAL SHOT AT WINNING THE NOMINATION.

BUT IT'S SENDING A SIGNAL THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO SEE TRUMP ON THE BALLOT AGAIN AS THE THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE.

AND OBVIOUSLY THERE'S A LOT OF FOLKS WHO DON'T, BUT THE VOTERS ARE GOING TO DECIDE IN THE POLLS THAT WE'VE SEEN SO FAR SHOW THAT THEY RIGHT NOW WANT TRUMP TO BE THAT NOMINEE.

>> EVERYONE HAS DECIDED EVERYONE LOVES JOHN McCAIN, EVEN THOSE WHO CRITICIZED HIM.

NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN IT'S ST. JOHN.

>> NOW IT SHOWS FROM MONEY REPORTS THAT ARIZONA WILL BE VERY MUCH IN THE SPOTLIGHT.

>> EXACTLY.

>> GOOD TOUGH ALL HERE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

THAT IS -- IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.

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